Richie Porte’s wife “already tired of seeing comments about his weight” after rider’s retirement (and he’s back on rim brakes); Police blasted for passing cyclist on wrong side; CX life lessons; Cycling doubles during train strikes + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
“Is this an acceptable pass by a police car?” Police officer criticised for passing cyclist on wrong side of pedestrian refuge island
We’ve got a classic Twitter debate to take you into lunchtime on the blog today…
The following clip, posted this morning, shows a police officer overtaking cyclist James on the Blackshaw Road in south west London late last night.
23:18 Sunday 8th Jan. Blackshaw Rd SW19. Is this an acceptable pass by a Police car?? What sort of driving example is this? I can understand if he was on a call but otherwise it is just impatience and blatantly ignoring the rules of the road. What do you think? pic.twitter.com/uPaKEWSu0c
— James Bikelover (@Mad_1nventor) January 9, 2023
Though the overtake was fairly wide and gave James plenty of space (perhaps for all the wrong reasons), much of the spirited debate that has followed underneath the clip has centred on the driver’s decision to pass the cyclist on the wrong side of a pedestrian refuge island:
This is right outside St George’s hospital. Rightly or wrongly, at all times of the day and night you can find people wandering and crossing the road. If they looked the right way as they stepped out but were hit by a vehicle on the wrong side of the road….
— James Bikelover (@Mad_1nventor) January 9, 2023
Yes, absolutely. Police drivers are highly trained and you have no idea where they were going, blues and twos or not.
— John Pearse (@Jaypers777) January 9, 2023
Ridiculous driving by the police who are not above the law, though they often think they are.
Apologists are just that.
Definitely report, the police can easily establish who it was even without the number plate.— HARRIS PROPERTY (@AlanHarrisSpain) January 9, 2023
As several commenters noted, the driver’s failure to comply with the ‘keep left’ sign at the pedestrian island could result in three penalty points (though as we’ve seen on the live blog in the past, that doesn’t always prove the case).
That’s a clear contravention of the Keep Left sign and at least one driver I reported (with video) was prosecuted for that.
I’d report it to Op Snap— 🚲 Will – @WilliamNB@toot.bike 🇿🇦🇬🇧 (@WilliamNB) January 9, 2023
If it was an emergency, then it can be justified by the police via job records. If it wasn’t an emergency, then the driver needs consequences.
— CyclingMikey (@MikeyCycling) January 9, 2023
The Met has at least responded to the video, sending James one of those automated ‘get in touch’ messages…
Please DM us, so we can take further details. Thank you https://t.co/dinxYKkXmT
— Met Contact Centre (@MetCC) January 9, 2023
“He looks as fit as a butcher’s dog”: Readers react to Richie Porte ‘weight’ story
Today’s main live blog story, on the rather ill-advised comments aimed at a fit and healthy Richie Porte as he begins to enjoy life after a decade-plus in the stressful and ultra-controlled environment of professional cycling, has got plenty of you talking (and has even attracted a few likes from pro cyclists on Twitter – Hi, Matteo Fabbro).
Here’s a selection of some of your thoughts from Facebook, Twitter, and (of course) the comments section:
Looking good …. and most importantly healthy.
— RoadRideEvents (@roadrideevents) January 9, 2023
This guy is an absolute legend and looks as fit as a butcher dog.
— ZwiftyCXer (@T15TSL) January 9, 2023
“Good for Richie and Gemma for standing up on this,” says road.cc reader SimoninSpalding, who then turned to an arguably more pressing issue: “My issue is how Richie thinks he qualifies as a MAMIL already? He needs a few more years before I will accept him into the club.”
Would love to see @richie_porte still wipe the floor with all the people making the ridiculous comments on the club ride sprints.
— Steve Gabriel (@stevegabe1980) January 9, 2023
I’d say he now looks like most of us out there who enjoy cycling, good food with the odd treat. Oh and he can now enjoy his time with his family so good on him! Gota admire those professional armchair coaches eh 😂 go #RichiePorte
— Marti Jerrard – K74 (@K74Marti) January 9, 2023
Weight, and shape. Unbalanced bodies finely tuned for powering bicycles. It must be a relief not to contort to conform to elite cycling expectations.
— Nick the Wink (@nickTheWink) January 9, 2023
However, in the comments section, ejocs reckoned that the remarks about Porte’s weight were taken out of context: “As far as I can tell, the weight-related comments on Porte’s post are referencing his failure to sport a MAMIL body (for example: ‘You need to work on your gut a bit, carbo load and decrease your cycling, that should do the trick’), not mocking him for gaining weight.
“In other words, they’re playing up the inside joke he himself referenced in his post. True, that wouldn’t be obvious without some cultural context, but for once I don’t think Instagram and internet commenters are as horrible as they’re being portrayed.”
Whether it’s a cyclist post career or a female or male cyclist at the top of the sport, big or small, comments about body morphology are universally rude and unwelcome. It’s a tough convo even with a coach in-season! 🤦🏼♀️
— Melanie McQuaid (@MelanieMcQuaid) January 9, 2023
Over on Facebook, Phillip Griffiths wrote: “Can’t understand the comments. He doesn’t look big. Looks normal. However, he is retired. It’s time to enjoy life after making so many sacrifices in his life. Eating things and doing things he couldn’t. Cycling is an extreme sport for staying extremely light.
“Kit sizes are also a joke. I wear size small tops but have to buy XL in cycling. Doesn’t make any sense.”
Similarly, Jimmy Ray Will noted pro cycling’s unhealthy obsession with weight as a factor behind some of the comments directed at Porte.
“I always struggle when professional cyclists complain about excess focus around weight,” he wrote. “The key fundamental of the sport is about generating as much power as possible, with as little body weight. If this triggers people, they should probably do something different.
“Professional sport is very rarely, if ever, a healthy lifestyle, you make a choice and you deal with the consequences.
“I think it is scary looking at that photo of a normal, slim man, and being shocked at how ‘chunky Ritchie is looking these days’. There is nothing normal about this sport, but the problem is the sport and not the people commentating.”
Finally, many were just buzzing to see a retired pro back where they belong: riding a bike with rim brakes…
Great to see him on rim brakes!
— Pete (@smythy75) January 9, 2023
And ineos socks lol
— elaine smith🏴☠️🇬🇧🇺🇦❤️💂 (@miffysmithe) January 9, 2023
No issue with his weight! Im more stoked to see him on rim brakes and alloy wheels.
Keep rolling legend— Rob Dallimore (@Mr_Rob_Dobolina) January 9, 2023
Christ I wish I was as “obese” as him. Most amateur cyclists would be super happy with that physique!! Power to you Richie and great to see you really prefer rim brakes 😉
— jonathan cave (@dozerman) January 9, 2023
Richie’s back on rim brakes
While Richie Porte’s Instagram post commemorating his “first ride as a MAMIL” has attracted attention for some of the rather unnecessary comments underneath it (though, as it was on Insta, the comments were actually to the right of the photo, but I digress), eagle-eyed road.cc editor Jack Sexty also noted that the Australian, finally free from the tyranny of sponsor-mandated equipment, had opted for a Team Sky-era Pinarello Dogma – complete with rim brakes.
That rather old school choice by Porte, who rode discs during his final year as a pro with the Ineos Grenadiers as well as during his two-year stint with Trek-Segafredo, has certainly gone down well with some of cycling’s more traditionalist fans:
“Just f***ing rude”: Richie Porte’s wife “already tired of seeing comments about his weight”
It’s been a long three year wait, but everyone’s favourite far-flung, sun-drenched, and (let’s face it) gentle introduction to the elite road racing season, the Tour Down Under, is back!
I can already feel the rush and hear the purr of those wheels in motion… (Apologies if that’s stuck in your head for the rest of the day.)
But two things will be missing from this year’s WorldTour curtain raiser in South Australia, as it marks its 23rd edition and the first since the Covid-19 pandemic struck in 2020.
First, Willunga Hill, the Tour Down Under’s traditional GC battleground, has been excised from this year’s race, in favour of the optimistically named Mount Lofty in the Adelaide Hills.
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Richie Porte battles with Rohan Dennis on Willunga in 2015 (credit: Regallo)
Second, the man synonymous with the Tour Down Under and Willunga itself, Richie Porte – responsible for six successive stage wins on the famous hilltop finish between 2014 and 2019 (as well as a bonus non-WorldTour win on Willunga at the 2021 Santos Festival of Cycling) – will not be there, having hung up his wheels following the truncated Tour of Britain in September.
While the cycling world will have to adjust to missing out on Porte’s annual surge up Willunga, the 37-year-old Tasmanian – whose successful 13-year pro career, after bursting onto the scene as a neo-pro for Saxo Bank at the 2010 Giro, featured stints at Sky, BMC, and Trek-Segafredo, multiple stage race victories, and a podium place at the 2020 Tour de France – appears to be enjoying life as a newly self-styled MAMIL:
However, while the majority of comments under Porte’s Instagram post were from well-wishers and fellow pros, a few – for whatever reason – referenced the two-time Paris-Nice winner’s weight.
These rather bewildering comments prompted Porte’s wife Gemma to pen a Twitter thread criticising cycling and more broadly society’s obsession with weight, noting the intense pressure pro cyclists are put under during their careers to maintain a specific diet and shape.
I think Iv ranted about this before but I need to rant again so here we go. A thread…
Richie has been officially retired for 8 days and I’m already tired of seeing/hearing comments about his weight/size.— Gemma Nicole Porte (@gemmanicoleb) January 7, 2023
“Richie has been officially retired for eight days and I’m already tired of seeing/hearing comments about his weight/size,” Gemma Porte wrote.
“We knew the comments would come and yes we’re therefore probably hyper aware ,but in my opinion any comment is inappropriate, thoughtless, and just f**king rude. Some comments are positive/congratulatory about weight gain… still not wanted. His weight shouldn’t even be a conversation.
“If you want to comment on somebody’s weight, message your best friend or discuss it at home with your partner (ideally not in front of kids in the hope there’s one generation not as obsessed with weight as us,) DO NOT comment on their photos or, worse, say something in person.”
Porte also noted that most of the comments referencing weight weren’t actually “from trolls”, but “people simply not thinking and not realising how inappropriate it is to comment on somebody’s weight, athlete or not!”
She continued: “Richie has been an athlete for well over a decade, training every day once sometimes twice, with his weight/diet closely monitored and major sacrifices being made in other parts of life to maintain that intensity. That will obviously now change in retirement and so will he.
“Retirement is a MAJOR adjustment physically and mentally… for anybody. Stop critiquing every change and let people find their own way.”
9 January 2023, 09:47
I’m not sure what I’m more fixated on: Mr Loophole’s latest surprising hot take or his preppy fashion sense and leopard print throw…
Mr Loophole tells drivers to make giving cyclists more room their New Year's resolution
Things we didn't expect to read today...
9 January 2023, 09:47
9 January 2023, 09:47
9 January 2023, 09:47
9 January 2023, 09:47
9 January 2023, 09:47
“It would be a real shame if a stage of the Tour of Britain could not now take place on the Isle of Wight,” says the race organisers
Isle of Wight Council says it is £350,000 out of pocket after Tour of Britain stage cancelled due to Queen’s death
UPDATE: Race organiser SweetSpot says it has offered the Isle of Wight a stage of the 2024 event and confirmed insurance did not cover the September cancellation
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Looks wonderful. One minor issue with the article. I went to the Gloria website and it looks like the anodized is actually 400 quid more than the sand blasted finish. It's a bit confusing, though.
@darnac Richard Virenque and his French Festina colleagues didn't exactly get a free ride in '98.
That said - there are no shortage of delivery riders in my part of Edinburgh riding "clearly illegal" machines (because throttle being used at speed so almost certainly not EAPCs). OTOH I'm slow and they're not all blowing by me; so in practice perhaps less drama? I think the problems tend to be limited by "most delivery riders don't make much money". Indeed I believe the most common scheme is for several people to *hire* a bike together and then ride the heck out of it in shifts. The really high-power ebikes are (currently) more pricey. So ... i guess it's harm minimisation by capitalism? (Not that the sellers care even enough to eg. pass on "you can't use this on the road mate"). The real "looks like a motorbike to me" ones seem to be limited to those presumably on more profitable errands than delivering groceries. Or scrotty yoof - I'm guessing of the local "dodgy families". But maybe that changes around eg. Chelsea or Sloane and it's a plague of racing rahs?
If anyone wants to do something to help, the Cyclists' Defence Fund is appealing for donations. Can't post a link without ending up in comment purgatory, but easy enough to find if you just google (well, easy enough to find how to donate to the CDF; the specific appeal related to this case is a bit harder to find, but "cdf appeal e-bike" seems to work for me. If you go through the appeal page, you get a free mug featuring Dave Walker's drawings).
@jackcycles 1. No evidence that the rider was a delivery driver or carrying a "silly blue delivery bag"; 2. There is no legal requirement for bicycle delivery riders to have insurance any more than any other cyclist; 3. People who want illegally fast ebikes don't rent £6K Terns, which are difficult and expensive to hack to exceed 25 km/h, when they can get a cheap bike and conversion kit for about £400 that will do silly fast speeds. 4. Re bike shop owner dragged down the street by an ebike, I'll take things that never happened for $500; 5. Are you Nigel?
I don't think jackcycles has provided any evidence that the bike shop owner dragged onto the pavement didn't then continue down the footway on the wrong side of the road way over the speed limit through a red light two-abreast and run over poor wheelywheely in his wheelchair again.
@tomlew Where is the evidence for /your/ claim that existing EPO tests can reliably detect doping at far below minimum effective doses (you didn't say "reliably", but that seems a sensible qualifier - without that, you do not have an effective test)? WADA actually funded research into developing tests for microdosing of EPO. I don't know the background as to why, but I have to assume they did so because of problems with the prior tests in detecting microdosing. E.g., I think this paper is reporting on at least some such research (some of the work cited is simply the prior work of various subsets of the authors): Wang, G., Durussel, J., Shurlock, J. et al. "Validation of whole-blood transcriptome signature during microdose recombinant human erythropoietin (rHuEpo) administration." BMC Genomics 18 (Suppl 8), 817 (2017). DOI: 10.1186/s12864-017-4191-7 In the background it notes of the direct test for EPO microdosing: " The main limitations of this direct approach are a variable and short detection window and low sensitivity. … Despite these advances, important limitations in detection of the direct approach have prompted a paradigm shift to the indirect identification of the effect of the prohibited method and/or substance. " And on the Athlete Bio-Passport (ABP) approach: "For example, the application of the ABP failed to reveal any evidence of rHuEpo microdosing (i.e. 20–30 IU∙kg−1 body mass rHuEpo twice weekly for 8 weeks) in 10 healthy male subjects [11]. In addition, the haematological parameters of the ABP may be confounded with factors such as altitude exposure, since hypoxia may affect the blood variables and vascular volumes [12, 13]. " And of course, all the top elite athletes (and their domestiques in cycling) are doing regular altitude camps, which - aside from the direct benefits on RBC - has the side-effect of making ABP data basically inadmissible (a useful side-effect IF you're doing blood doping). Despite the ABP not being able to detect micro-dosing, there is a clear effect on at least some blood values in the micro-dosing data (MDS). See Figure 3 and read the section "Haemotological analysis" on the MDS. So... TTBOMK: 1. micro-dosing definitely has an impact on blood values - you can see it in the data there, and I definitely felt it (I was one of the subjects in the MDS). 2. Neither direct tests nor ABP can reliably detect EPO microdosing, according to that paper - and WADA believes it too, because they funded at least some portions of the work described in that paper (they funded at least the MDS portion). Repost: Replace my direct link to the paper published on Springer with the text of the citation and the DOI (search that and you'll find it), to appease Road.cc's overzealous filtering.
@Paul J That might be asking a bit much, given that links to road.cc's own site are falling into the black hole.
@tomlew Sigh. I typed out a long reply to you, including a link to a very relevant paper (which itself references a number of other relevant studies), and it's got lost in Road.cc's blackhole of a moderation queue - cause I linked to a scientific paper. Road.cc - can you please check the mod queue, and can you also please whitelist comments that reference URIs to major scientific publishing platforms? Thanks.
@Surreyrider Well, quite - plus there's the video coverage of the event, which doesn't show him making any obvious mistake, but rather shows the whole train of riders going wide through the corner and him getting cramped for space - not unlike many other crashes where there's no suggestion that lack of sleep was an issue.
41 thoughts on “Richie Porte’s wife “already tired of seeing comments about his weight” after rider’s retirement (and he’s back on rim brakes); Police blasted for passing cyclist on wrong side; CX life lessons; Cycling doubles during train strikes + more on the live blog”
Good for Richie and Gemma for
Good for Richie and Gemma for standing up on this.
My issue is how Richie thinks he qualifies as a MAMIL already? He needs a few more years before I will accept him into the club
SimoninSpalding wrote:
Quite, as a 54-year-old I am adamant that middle age only begins at 55 (I may revise this position in ten months’ time).
Rendel Harris wrote:
For years, middle age has been defined a MA + 10, where MA = my age.
Since I hit 50, this has been revised to MA + 5.
As I turn 53 at the end of the month, you are absolutely fine, Rendel.
In a recent interview of with
In a recent interview of with Fiona Bruce on Antiques Roadshow* Jonathan Ross (62) and three years older than me described himself as a middle age man. I went to laugh, then stopped myself and thought; that’s okay then few more years to go.
* I’ve been a bit of an invalid this last week and watched all sorts of rubbish
Antiques Roadshow is fine and
Antiques Roadshow is fine and almost perfect early Sunday evening viewing.
And Ski Sunday.
When in her 60s and retired,
When in her 60s and retired, my mum was adamant that she was middle aged, and not a pensioner (though she actually was collecting her pension). Given that she got to about 80, my calculations are that retrospectively she was wrong (another thing she could be quite adamantly against!).
Entrenched car culture
Entrenched car culture stopping people from moving to more affordable and sustainable forms of transport
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/09/entrenched-car-culture-leaves-millions-of-britons-in-transport-poverty
And it says lots of people
And it says lots of people thinking buying a bike is too costly. Umm, a decent secondhand bike doesn’t have to cost much.
OldRidgeback wrote:
Whilst you are correct, a large percentage of the population have grown up with credit culture for everything. So the thought of saving and using real money doesn’t get any consideration.
If my bike was written off or
If my bike was written off or stolen, I couldn’t afford to buy a new one or even a ‘decent secondhand one’. Not for several (lots of) months of saving up, anyway.
Maybe I’m unusual in not having a credit card?
brooksby wrote:
Yes, you are.
I can relate to not wanting a credit card due to the ease of racking up debts (been there, done that), but it’s easy enough to set up a credit card that gets paid off in full each month (assuming that you have the funds) so that you don’t end up paying any interest on it. The big advantage of credit cards is with online shopping as they provide an extra layer of protection/insurance.
I might be wrong but I think
I might be wrong but I think PayPal can offer some of this protection
Shake wrote:
PayPal provides some kind of protection with at least eBay products though I think it’s limited to certain price ranges, however it’s almost impossible to challenge any decision they make and good luck trying to talk to an actual person.
What I’d recommend is using a credit card as the backing for PayPal so you can avoid leaving your credit card details with numerous companies and instead just use PayPal.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Me too, in my youth. And don’t entirely trust myself now.
How is that different from just spending the money you have using a debit card? (cutting out the credit card company middleman?)
brooksby wrote:
It provides a layer of protection from nefarious internet shops.
It also delays purchases from coming out of your bank account by about a month which may or may not be an advantage depending on how you budget.
You can also get cashback (e.g. 1%) with some credit cards to entice you to put all your purchases on the credit card (which I do).
Probably – but I’ve also
Probably – but I’ve also lived without one for time. When I first had one it was mostly used for foreign travel so when I did less of it I found less need. Also like HP I found it was too easy to not pay the whole thing off which is fine until you hit lean times.
brooksby wrote:
We use our Amex and Mastercard as I would debit cards.
I clear them every month and collect the Airmiles.
I haven’t paid for a flight in decades.
S13SFC wrote:
I haven’t flown for decades (never had an overseas holiday).
Yes but many employers have a
Yes but many employers have a cyclescheme in a benefit package, so you could get that bicycle on the scheme and pay for it before tax and NI. It’s like an interest free (though really a lease) loan. Try getting that for a car.
vsmith1 wrote:
Unfortunately, my employer doesn’t participate in that, but as I understand it, there’s a ceiling of £1000 to be spent on bike and accessories and I don’t think it can be used for second-hand bikes. It’s a strange scheme as the employee doesn’t own the bike until the end of the scheme and then I think it’s optional for the employer to transfer ownership.
It used to be 1k but now
It used to be 1k but now there is not limit BUT down to the employer to allow amounts over 1K
“It’s important that we note that employers are under no obligation to offer schemes with a limit in excess of £1,000. “
hirsute wrote:
My employer considered that the scheme was too much effort for only providing a small benefit (I believe the bikes/equipment are sold at RRP which reduces the savings) and there’s a risk of employees leaving before the end of the scheme which would involve the business being left with unwanted bikes, assuming they can reclaim them.
I don’t think the scheme is very good as it only really benefits people in steady jobs that are paying higher tax – arguably those are the people least in need of such a scheme.
Not good for retailers either
Not good for retailers either
https://road.cc/content/news/cyclescheme-now-unviable-retailers-after-changes-277399
2020 article – but bike prices have gone up a lot, meaning it’s not just the higher end affected.
the benefits are complex to
the benefits are complex to quantify because everyones financial situation is different, its not that your getting a cheaper bike necessarily, just a bike thats maybe cheaper to budget for in your spending than as a one off payment. It works best if you treat it as an interest free loan, but then my LBS runs interest free loans over a similar period so are you really getting that much benefit.
I dont know though it does annoy me that people think you need to spend 3k upwards to buy a bike to commute to work on.
Bizarre logic from a motorist
Bizarre logic from a motorist
So he spotted the camera on
So he spotted the camera on your head and gave you a punishment pass for it? Seems unlikely, but if true that’s wonderfully stupid.
Not me the twitter user
Not me the twitter user @TGonthebike
It’s the usual drivist mantra that cyclists with cameras are only looking for trouble.
hirsute wrote:
Hmm. Drivers using dashcams to protect themselves from a litigious perspective are being perfectly reasonable – responsible, even – but cyclists who run helmet cams can’t possibly be trying to protect themselves from a litigious perspective, they’re just narcissists out to cause trouble.
Now, where have I heard that before…
Id probably label it NFN
Id probably label it NFN (normal for Norfolk) 🙂 but I am surprised TGonthebike labels the local police as excellent, as that specific example Id have felt was only borderline worth reporting based on my past experiences the last 3 years, hence why I dont really bother submitting anymore, its not as if its different between Norfolk & Suffolk, because its the same team.
the one they posted today, https://twitter.com/TGonthebike/status/1612403945598492673 I wouldnt have even considered as a potential submission, thats just how Ive got used to people driving around cyclists, Id have probably just sighed, and used the cycle lane to hop back in front of them again.
Saw this picture on Twitter
Saw this picture on Twitter to illustrate parking on footways (copied from a tweet below the one hirsute has referenced below)
As far as I can tell, the
As far as I can tell, the weight-related comments on Porte’s post are referencing his failure to sport a mamil body (for example: “You need to work on your gut a bit, carbo load and decrease your cycling, that should do the trick), not mocking him for gaining weight. In other words, they’re playing up the inside joke he himself referenced in his post. True, that wouldn’t be obvious without some cultural context, but for once I don’t think instagram and internet commenters are as horrible as they’re being portrayed.
I always struggle when
I always struggle when professional cyclists complain about excess focus around weight. The key fundamental of the sport is about generating as much power as possible, with as little body weight.
If this triggers people, they should probably do something different.
Professional sport is very rarely, if ever, a healthy lifestyle, you make a choice and you deal with the consequences.
I think it is scary looking at that photo of a normal, slim man, and being shocked at how ‘chunky Ritchie is looking these days’. There is nothing normal about this sport, but the problem is the sport and not the people commentating.
Isn’t it the law that ytou
Isn’t it the law that ytou have to ride Gold Street in Shaftesbury on a rod-braked butcher’s bike while listening to the New World Symphony…?
brooksby wrote:
I think you’re allowed to get off and push going up as long as you have a full load of loaves.
Steve K wrote:
That sounds pain-full
Chapeau
Chapeau
hawkinspeter wrote:
That joke was utterly breadful. You won’t get a rise out of me. It’s been my yeast favourite joke of the year so far.
Good news though – if you get
Good news though – if you get a puncture you can plug the hole with a Werther’s Original.
I notice someone’s flagged
I notice someone’s flagged Vale Street in Bristol. I wonder what the gradients are on St Michael’s Hill and on Constitution Hill, in Bristol?
brooksby wrote:
St Mike’s is positively flat compared to Vale. Constitution hill is flatter still.
Vale: avg 23%, peak 25.6%
St Mike’s: avg 12.9% (yes, really – it feels much steeper but does flatten out pretty quick past the pubs) peak 16.7%
Cons: avg 8.2%, peak 12.6%
Vale is pretty short though, but still a good challenge!
Wow – they both feel steeper
Wow – they both feel steeper than that.
Remind me never to try to ride Vale Street 😀