“He pays road tax, you don’t”: Motorists – and Ashley Neal – blast Jeremy Vine for black cab close pass video; Extinction Rebellion’s British Cycling protest’s mixed response; Local letter with a difference; Pidcock’s Worlds doubts + more on the live blog

103 thoughts on ““He pays road tax, you don’t”: Motorists – and Ashley Neal – blast Jeremy Vine for black cab close pass video; Extinction Rebellion’s British Cycling protest’s mixed response; Local letter with a difference; Pidcock’s Worlds doubts + more on the live blog”

1. I think Jeremy Vine is almost
   I think Jeremy Vine is almost always bang on, but indicating so late certainly didn’t help that situation. The taxi overtook a slower moving vehicle, moving fully into a different lane and indicating well in advance of their manoeuvre. I wish all car drivers passed me with such consideration. Vine on the other hand wanders slowly over into the other lane, sticking his hand out at the last minute when there is already an issue. Certainly not the best example of his usually pretty good roadcraft. I think the belligerence from both parties is uncalled for, but I guess that’s two red blooded humans on the streets of London.

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   • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

     I think Jeremy Vine is almost always bang on, but indicating so late certainly didn’t help that situation.

     — ShutTheFrontDawes

     It’s the responsibility of the taxi driver to assess what is happening ahead and not make the dangerous overtake, apportioning any blame to the cyclist for not signalling at a very specific time is wrong as the operation of steering and gear changing (and brakes) is done by the hand that would need to signal. Following vehicle operators must be mindful of this in this situation. HC mentions that cyclists may move unpredicatable due road imperfections etc.

     Also, Vine lets the taxi that was in the outer lane past then shoulder-checks 3 times as he starts to change lane approaching the parked taxi.
     Quite obviousy where the two brompton riders were going but idiot taxi driver is a dangerous impantient bully who wants to stop at the next queue sooner and doesn’t care if he endangerous vulnerable road users to do so.

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     • Vine does move fully into the
       Vine does move fully into the other lane though – I think he should but some cyclists would be happy to stay in the left hand lane and cycle closer to the stopped vehicle in much the same way that cyclists filter past stopped cars, just on the offside rather than nearside. If Vine had indicated (which he should have done iaw rule 103 of the highway code) he would have made his intention clear. I don’t see that needing to do multiple things with the same hand is in any way relevant, unless you are saying that cycling is inherently dangerous because you can’t do everything concurrently. The ‘change gear and indicate’ issue you present also applies to right-hand-drive manual vehicles, but most drivers seem to manage that just fine. The problem must be compounded in BMWs, Audis, Bentleys and the like because I rarely see their indicators in use.

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       • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

         Vine does move fully into the other lane though – I think he should but some cyclists would be happy to stay in the left hand lane and cycle closer to the stopped vehicle in much the same way that cyclists filter past stopped cars, just on the offside rather than nearside. If Vine had indicated (which he should have done iaw rule 103 of the highway code) he would have made his intention clear. I don’t see that needing to do multiple things with the same hand is in any way relevant, unless you are saying that cycling is inherently dangerous because you can’t do everything concurrently. The ‘change gear and indicate’ issue you present also applies to right-hand-drive manual vehicles, but most drivers seem to manage that just fine. The problem must be compounded in BMWs, Audis, Bentleys and the like because I rarely see their indicators in use.

         — ShutTheFrontDawes

         The issue with indicating whilst cycling is that you need to remove your hand from the front wheel brake and also reduce your control of the handlebars. You should indicate where possible, but not at the expense of control, so potholes, or iron works can be reasons why you’d want to indicate late if at all. For passing a parked vehicle, I usually just do a shoulder check and any following vehicles should interpret that to mean that I’m pulling over. Surely indicating in a car is just flicking a switch and doesn’t require your hand to be occupied all the time that you’re indicating?

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         • hawkinspeter wrote:

           You should indicate where possible, but not at the expense of control

           — hawkinspeter

           That’s not what the Highway Code says.  Rule 103 says “You should always […] use them [signals] to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off”.

           Saying that a cyclist doesn’t need to use hand signals to indicate a change of course (e.g. moving from one lane into another) but at the same time insisting that cars leave enough room when overtaking is essentially saying that cyclists can choose to ignore rule 103 but cars absolutely cannot choose to ignore rule 163.  It’s a weird double-think that makes no sense.

         • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

           You should indicate where possible, but not at the expense of control

           — ShutTheFrontDawes

           That’s not what the Highway Code says.  Rule 103 says “You should always […] use them [signals] to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off”.

           Saying that a cyclist doesn’t need to use hand signals to indicate a change of course (e.g. moving from one lane into another) but at the same time insisting that cars leave enough room when overtaking is essentially saying that cyclists can choose to ignore rule 103 but cars absolutely cannot choose to ignore rule 163.  It’s a weird double-think that makes no sense.

           — hawkinspeter

           Well rule 66 states:

           You should … avoid any actions that could reduce your control of your cycle

           So, it’s a trade-off between clearly showing your intention (which a shoulder check should do) and not compromising your control. Ultimately, the HC is about how to try to avoid collisions and leaving room for other road users is all about having a margin of error for when things don’t go as planned.

           Vehicles not indicating is fairly common on the roads, and although it’s certainly helpful and recommended to signal appropriately, you shouldn’t drive/cycle assuming that indicators are anything more than ‘just an indication’.

           Going back to Vine, it should have been very obvious to the taxi driver that there’s an obstruction just up ahead, so it wasn’t good driving to choose to overtake there. If I was cycling where the taxi was and a taxi was proceeding where Vine was, then I’d have been anticipating the taxi needing to pull out.

           Also, in terms of obeying the ‘should’ recommendations in the HC, the ones that endanger others are of a higher priority than any others. Leaving space for cyclists is something that should always be obeyed if we want to reduce the fatalities out there.

         • hawkinspeter wrote:

           Well rule 66 states:

           You should … avoid any actions that could reduce your control of your cycle

           So, it’s a trade-off

           — hawkinspeter

           I don’t think it is a trade-off.  It’s interesting that you think the two options are:

           1. Keep both hands on the handlebars and maintain control of you bicycle.

           2. Take one hand off your handlebars and lose control of your bicycle.

           Surely, slowing down, stopping and/or anticipating hazards earlier would be  equally good options?

           And there aren’t any rules that inherently endanger people any more than others.  It all depends on the situation at hand.

           But just to re-iterate the point, a cyclist should use hand signals to change lanes (amongst other things).

         • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

           I don’t think it is a trade-off.  It’s interesting that you think the two options are:

           1. Keep both hands on the handlebars and maintain control of you bicycle.

           2. Take one hand off your handlebars and lose control of your bicycle.

           Surely, slowing down, stopping and/or anticipating hazards earlier would be  equally good options?

           And there aren’t any rules that inherently endanger people any more than others.  It all depends on the situation at hand.

           But just to re-iterate the point, a cyclist should use hand signals to change lanes (amongst other things).

           — ShutTheFrontDawes

           Maybe I didn’t explain myself well enough.

           If the conditions make you think that you’ll have reduced control by signalling right or you anticipate needing to use the front brake, then it’s probably best to keep control. Most of the time, that’s not an issue, so yes, always signal where it’s not ambiguous or misleading.

           There most definitely are rules that endanger people more than others – Rule 17 about pedestrians wearing reflectives at night is clearly far less of a danger to others than Rule 162 about safe overtaking.

           I did originally post that personally I would like to think that I would have anticipated the issue and either slowed to allow the taxi to overtake or taken the lane earlier. It wasn’t the best maneouvre by Vine.

         • hawkinspeter wrote:

           If the conditions make you think that you’ll have reduced control by signalling right or you anticipate needing to use the front brake, then it’s probably best to keep control.

           — hawkinspeter

           If the conditions are such that doing something you are required to by the highway code causes you to lose control, it’s probably better to get off and walk.

           I would like to think that I would have anticipated the issue and either slowed to allow the taxi to overtake or taken the lane earlier. It wasn’t the best maneouvre by Vine.

           — hawkinspeter

           On this I agree completely.

         • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

           If the conditions are such that doing something you are required to by the highway code causes you to lose control, it’s probably better to get off and walk.

           — ShutTheFrontDawes

           Possibly, but with the state of the roads, you never know when you might suddenly see a pothole and decide to keep both hands on the bars.

           A bit off-topic, but there’s some junctions that I deliberately don’t signal when I’m turning left to hopefully dissuade close overtakes. Sometimes it’s better to sow a bit of doubt in a following vehicle’s driver’s mind so that they hang back a bit.

         • hawkinspeter wrote:

           Possibly, but with the state of the roads, you never know when you might suddenly see a pothole and decide to keep both hands on the bars.

           — hawkinspeter

           Very true but in that case, I would apologise for changing lanes without signalling and explain my reason for doing so, and not belligerently insist that I was taking some imaginary line like a bad impression of Max verstappen.

         • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

           Very true but in that case, I would apologise for changing lanes without signalling and explain my reason for doing so, and not belligerently insist that I was taking some imaginary line like a bad impression of Max verstappen.

           — ShutTheFrontDawes

           That seems very polite of you. Whenever I’ve had a vehicle beep at me due to some mistake (probably theirs, but then I would say that), they’ve inevitably disappeared into the distance before I have a chance to discuss the issue.

         • True. If it’s because of
           True. If it’s because of something stupid I’ve done (which when I rode a fixie was more often than I’d have liked tbh) it was usually a sheepish look and a wave that the driver may or may not have even seen.

         • Doesn’t the HC advise

           Doesn’t the HC advise motorists to be aware that a cyclist/motorcyclist may have to swerve suddenly to avoid an obstruction/hazard and to allow room for such a measure? 

         • giff77 wrote:

           Doesn’t the HC advise motorists to be aware that a cyclist/motorcyclist may have to swerve suddenly to avoid an obstruction/hazard and to allow room for such a measure? 

           — giff77

           Yes, and for good reason.

         • Think a lot of motorists

           Think a lot of motorists missed that one. 

       • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

         … some cyclists would be happy to stay in the left hand lane and cycle closer to the stopped vehicle.

         — ShutTheFrontDawes

         So, you’re advising them to ride in the Door Zone of Death, then?

         (Cyclists pass close to vehicles stopped in a traffic queue on their right because it is much less likely that the passenger will fling open the door.  I’m sure you already know that, though).

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         • brooksby wrote:

           … some cyclists would be happy to stay in the left hand lane and cycle closer to the stopped vehicle.

           — brooksby

           So, you’re advising them to ride in the Door Zone of Death, then?

           (Cyclists pass close to vehicles stopped in a traffic queue on their right because it is much less likely that the passenger will fling open the door.  I’m sure you already know that, though).— ShutTheFrontDawes

           I think the term ‘Door Zone of Death’ is a bit melodramatic, but I leave enough width between me and parked/stopped vehicles so that someone could open their door without hitting me wherever possible.

           And as you already know (if you actually read my comment at least), I never said that a cyclist should cycle that close to a parked/stopped car – indeed I wouldn’t unless I slowed down considerably.  However, some cyclists would be happy to.  We see videos on NMotD who do exactly that, and there are often comments on here about exactly that.  Jeremy Vine decided to leave plenty of room, as would I, and chose to move into the right hand lane.  He indicated his intention very late in the manoeuvre and cycled into the path of a car coming from behind.

   • I’ve had this agrument with a

     I’ve had this argument with a speeding MGIF driver, who accused me of indicating late. If he hadn’t just resorted to winding down the window and swearing at me I would have pointed out what the HC says: “If the rider looks over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so.” A competent driver would have observed this – it’s not just about JV sticking his paw out.

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   • If the Taxi driver did think

     If the Taxi driver did think he was turning right, why the hell did he go to overtake? That’s even more dangerous. I’m sick of it happening to be honest. so many times, I clearly stick my hand out, becasue I am turning right and still cars overtake me on the right. It more dangerous than a close pass.

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     • I didn’t say anything about
       I didn’t say anything about Vine turning right.

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       • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

         I didn’t say anything about Vine turning right.

         — ShutTheFrontDawes

         No – the taxi driver did.

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         • brooksby wrote:

           I didn’t say anything about Vine turning right.

           — brooksby

           No – the taxi driver did.— ShutTheFrontDawes

           Oh yeah, the taxi driver is an idiot for sure.  Just the other day I was out cycling with my child on a local (very quiet) road.  We were preparing to turn right and I was signalling and a car driver overtook us.  Fortunately my child had not yet begun turning.

2. With the taxi being that

   With the taxi being that close to JV and already indicating, I’d’ve been inclined to let it pass first and then take the lane. The other alternative would be to have taken the lane earlier, at the lights. However, the taxi driver should have aborted the overtake when they saw what JV was doing as there wasn’t the room there and of course it was totally unnecessary.

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   • An issue with slowing there

     An issue with slowing there was the brompton rider coming up the inside, a motorbike in close proximity and a van was approaching behind the taxi. Letting the taxi go probably would have involved coming to a complete stop behind the parked car. That would make rejoining the traffic flow difficult.

     Although the taxi got close, the speed was low and it’s a toss up sometimes whether being submissive is any safer than becoming more assertive and trying to hold the traffic back. I would have been quicker to move left after passing the car though, but we can’t see if that other bike rider was still on the inside.

     As for the late indication, I don’t think indicating was necessary. It’s clear the traffic in lane 1 needs to move around the parked car and the taxi driver (who was in lane 1!) should not have tried to overtake as they approached this road narrowing.

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     • The cyclist should have
       The cyclist should have indicated (iaw rule 103 of the highway code) but the taxi driver should have anticipated the manoeuvre regardless.

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       • Too many motorists genuinely

         Too many motorists genuinely seem to think that cyclists will run up behind a parked car, disappear with a Star Trek sound effect, and then reappear beyond it.

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         • I don’t think it’s unfair for
           I don’t think it’s unfair for a car driver to think that cyclists might be able to pass a stopped vehicle without moving to an adjacent lane. We do it all the time and call it ‘filtering’.

         • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

           I don’t think it’s unfair for a car driver to think that cyclists might be able to pass a stopped vehicle without moving to an adjacent lane. We do it all the time and call it ‘filtering’.

           — ShutTheFrontDawes

           The important difference is that cyclists can choose to filter when they think it’s safe to do so. Other vehicles are not in a position to judge whether a cyclist is happy to filter, so the drivers need to follow the HC and leave enough space for cyclists to get around obstacles.

         • No, but one thing that helps
           No, but one thing that helps a driver to anticipate what a cyclist intends to do is signalling. Vine didn’t signal (or didn’t until he was pretty much into the adjacent lane) so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he wasn’t intended intending to change lane. Vine could have stayed in the left hand lane, and he didn’t signal that he was changing lanes until very late into the manoeuvre.

         • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

           No, but one thing that helps a driver to anticipate what a cyclist intends to do is signalling. Vine didn’t signal (or didn’t until he was pretty much into the adjacent lane) so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he wasn’t intended intending to change lane. Vine could have stayed in the left hand lane, and he didn’t signal that he was changing lanes until very late into the manoeuvre.

           — ShutTheFrontDawes

           It would indeed be reasonable to think that Vine might have stayed in lane, but even so, the overtake wouldn’t have left enough room for the upcoming obstruction. It was poor/lazy anticipation by the taxi driver which is evidenced by the taxi not making it any further than to the next queue of traffic.

         • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

           I don’t think it’s unfair for a car driver to think that cyclists might be able to pass a stopped vehicle without moving to an adjacent lane.

           — ShutTheFrontDawes

           At this point in the road, there are no marked lanes. It is just a wide section of road with a marked bus stop.

           https://goo.gl/maps/AAcjBXvKMvSZZ1B47

         • If we can “appear out of

           If we can “appear out of nowhere” why can’t we “tunnel” through parked vehicles too.

         • An acquantance tried that. 

           An acquantance tried that.  She said it hurt and the broken glass made a mess of her jacket.

         • ktache wrote:

           If we can “appear out of nowhere” why can’t we “tunnel” through parked vehicles too.

           — ktache

           I wonder if I could fit an oscillation overthruster on my bike? 

3. I feel sorry for black cab

   I feel sorry for black cab drivers in that London as they never see cyclists and thus, don’t have a clue what to do around them, like give them time and space and consider what they might wish to do next. 

   It must be terrible to be faced with something you have never seen before or indeed been trained to handle. Its just like driving instructors aren’t doing their job fully or correctly but then again, what should we expect them to know what to do, being locked away in their little metal boxes all day (And yes I know that Neal claims to ride a bike…. he is still a knob).

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4. This interesting article from

   This interesting article from the BBC yesterday.

   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-63682810

   ….of course we all know that the big issue with road safety is RLJ

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   • Perhaps it’s because it doesn

     Perhaps it’s because it doesn’t affect my safety as much, but I don’t notice the no seatbelt thing anywhere near the phone use. 

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     • I think the camera system is

       I think the camera system is not very good at detecting mobile phone use from those figures, absence of a diagonal belt across the chest is relatively easy to identify but a mobile could be held anywhere and would be more difficult. I certainly think the real life proportions are probably the reverse of those figures.

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   • Reading the article with a

     Reading the article with a grammar hat on what difference does it make if the police were wearing seatbelts or not? 

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5. I dont tend to indicate to

   I dont tend to indicate to overtake parked vehicles, neither do london cabbies for that matter if Vine had been a cabbie,the cabbie behind wouldnt have even so much as squeaked about that being a problem.

   But on the basis it should be obvious theres an obstruction in the road and sticking a paw out always invites the driver to attempt to overtake you first, in that weird way alot of drivers believe you have to have their permission to manuevere on the road first and should probably wait, might is right and all that.

   so I dont think Vine is doing anything wrong there other than expecting the cabbie to be anything other than a got to get past merchant, the indication is more of a are you really not clocking theres a car stopped and both me and the brompton guy next to me need to move across.

   the issue is when the cabbie doesnt give him the space Vine cant use the space on his left to give himself more room , because thats where brompton guy is, he probably cant brake either because  then Brompton guy appears from “nowhere” next to cabbie who was focussed only on Vine and it potentially is worse, and so it all gets awkward and stupid, just because this professional driver only has an on/off switch on the gas pedal and still hasnt worked out how traffic flows on those roads.

   all the cabbie had to do was lift for a second or two, both riders get past the obstruction, he joins the same back of the queue he was always going to join.

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6. https://usa.streetsblog.org

   https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/11/18/why-there-are-so-few-monuments-to-traffic-violence-victims-and-why-it-matters/

   Once frequently erected in U.S. cities as part of public awareness campaigns from groups like the National Safety Council — which once built a 25 foot-tall obelisk in memory of the 130 Baltimore children who died in car crashes in 1921 alone — Norton [Fighting Traffic: The Dawn of the Motor Age in the American City, 2008] says that early road death monuments were regarded as a threat to automotive interests, some of which openly ridiculed public remembrances in an attempt to undermine their influence. Charles Hayes of the Chicago Motor Club once famously praised the end of the “emotional sob sister campaign,” referring to the mothers of slain children who gave speeches at monument dedications; car manufacturers like Packard Motorcar, meanwhile, even went so far as to construct their own monuments featuring fake gravestones emblazoned with epithet “J. Walker.”

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7. NMOTD on dash cam uk

   NMOTD on dash cam uk

   https://youtu.be/B5YgcIyneVU?t=376

   https://youtu.be/B5YgcIyneVU?t=450

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   • That one at the crossroads at

     That one at the crossroads at 1’30”, on compilation 43, is particularly hairy! 

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8. Day 1190 of the Jeremy Vile

   Day 1190 of the Jeremy Vile “controversial” clickbait to get drivers and cyclists at each other’s throats. Are you starting to understand that him and his virtue signalling mates might be part of problem rather than the solution?

   Vine did multiple things wrong in the clip. He should start with controlling what he can control, which in this case is his own atrocious cycling.

   And what’s with the ridiculous “cinematic” music, like we’re about to watch Terminator vs Predator?

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   • @Rakia why soooooooooo bitter

     @Rakia why soooooooooo bitter? What’s virtue-signalling about trying to stay alive? It’s about time you went back to reading the Daily Mail.

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     • Oh right, sneaking around
       Oh right, sneaking around with a selfie stick to create confrontations for YouTube is “trying to stay alive”. Who knew?

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       • It’s not a selfie stick. I

         It’s not a selfie stick. I thought someone of your pedantry would get that right.

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       • Sneaking? Have you seen how

         Sneaking? Have you seen how many lights he’s got?! 
         it’s not a selfie stick 

         it’s not to create issues, shockingly it just documents what’s already happening. 

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9. Crazy cyclist

   Crazy cyclist

   https://twitter.com/NaughtyDrivers/status/1594605282558038016

   Claims that he has previous

   https://twitter.com/chriswcabby/status/1594041971474976769

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   • Oddly cathartic tbh
     Oddly cathartic tbh

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10. Some good news for cyclists

    Some good news for cyclists today which I haven’t seen mentioned – Shell and British Cycling have partnered up to offer Shell Go+ members £10 off British Cycling membership.

    Lowering the barrier to membership will enable more people to enjoy benefits such as the public liabliity insurance and legal support which I have used and can vouch for, and to support the British cycling team.

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    • This is the same guy who has

      This is the same guy who has never encountered any issues or been involved in any incidents with other road users whilst cycling (at an average of 21mph) on British roads ladies & gents. 

      In other news, day found to actually be night.

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      • I’ve been close passed but
        I’ve been close passed but have never had any altercations with drivers. I also only cycle at that speed on shorter (1-2 hour) rides with fewer hills, this isn’t unusual and even a 60 year old I know rides faster. It is also a bit slower now we are moving towards winter.

        If you’re trundling around you just need to put in more effort and get fitter. Perhaps you could benefit from a British cycling membership with the discount?

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        • Can you clarify why you

          Can you clarify why you required the liability insurance or legal support if you’ve only ever been close passed and never had an altercation with a motorist? Did you hit a pedestrian? Accidentally cycle through a shop window? 

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          • I had legal supportvia Leigh
            I had legal support via Leigh Day after coming off my bike due to a pothole. I sued the council and won £2000.

          • And his other nine personas

            And his other nine personas also sued.  Nice little earner that.

             

          • Ah – are you suggesting

            Ah – are you suggesting “troll” is the wrong type of entity and what we’re looking at is a case of:

            http://beachcomber.weebly.com/twelve-red-bearded-dwarfs.html

          • Rakia wrote:

            I had legal support via Leigh Day after coming off my bike due to a pothole. I sued the council and won £2000.

            — Rakia

            I’ve got no sympathy for people who don’t have my ability, as the fastest and most skilled rider in my cycling club, to avoid potholes. It’s perfectly easy to do if you ride to the conditions. Why should the great British public have to pay for the mistakes of probably overweight cyclists who can’t take responsibility for their riding and go rushing to an ambulance-chasing lawyer whining that they’ve got a bruise and claiming thousands of pounds off the taxpayer?

            … is what he would say about anybody else in that situation.

          • Yet most competent cyclist

            Yet most competent cyclists will have read the road and ensured that they would have avoided it.
            Tips: Hold a strong position as majority of holes are kerbside. 
            Look ahead and read the surface and move out early. 
            In darkness drop your speed to give more time to react when your lights pick something out. 
            Avoid standing water. 
             

            Maybe then you won’t need the assistance of Leigh Day. 

          • You forgot:

            You forgot:

            Don’t cycle in Edinburgh (philosophy – if 50% of the surface is “pothole” does it mean there are not potholes, just that the remaining “good” bits are “lumphumps”?)

          • Lived in Edinburgh about 25

            Lived in Edinburgh about 25 years ago and things weren’t too bad. Though on a recent visit it was shocking how the roads had deteriorated. 

          • Yeah sorry about that.  In my

            Yeah sorry about that.  In my defence others have been cycling on them too.

        • You didn’t reply to me

          You didn’t reply to me earlier,  very impolite if I may say so. So I’ll see you next Tuesday at the chainy? With your prowess you’ll drop us 1st and 2nd cat choppers no bother! 

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        • Rakia wrote:

          I’ve been close passed but have never had any altercations with drivers. I also only cycle at that speed on shorter (1-2 hour) rides with fewer hills, this isn’t unusual and even a 60 year old I know rides faster. It is also a bit slower now we are moving towards winter. If you’re trundling around you just need to put in more effort and get fitter. Perhaps you could benefit from a British cycling membership with the discount?

          — Rakia

          Why?  I’m pretty fit and have a great endurance threshold. I’m quite happy to tap out an avg of 15/16 mph and enjoy the scenery. Talking to an elderly cyclist who holds a handful of national championships agrees. Get out, get miles in the legs and enjoy. The racing takes care of its self. She’s 90 by the way and still out there. 

          I’m assuming that you have a racing licence and membership due to the speeds you achieve. You do realise that BC is primarily the racing body and is only in recent years that they opened up to Joe Public with their Fan, Commuter and Ride offerings.

          I recommend CTC or Cycling U.K. as it’s now known as. They gather together cyclists of every genre and have great experience in championing regular cycling. After all it was CTC that was one of the bodies influential in seeing better roads. 

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      • And yet regardless of his

        And yet regardless of his impressive average speed BC has yet to sign him up to represent the nation. 

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        • Probably too courteous and

          Probably too courteous and polite – always lets others through in front of them.  (Even more of a pity because that means for an *average* of > 20mph they’re likely closer to 30mph moving speed…)

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        • Well he is forrin’ after all.

          Well he is forrin’ after all. Oh no wait, that was last week….

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    • Rakia wrote:

      the public liabliity insurance and legal support which I have used and can vouch for

      — Rakia

      So Mr Perfect has been found at fault and had to ask BC’s public liability insurance to pay out for him, or is this statement bullshit? Must be one of the two.

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    • That’s not good news for
      That’s not good news for cyclists who rely on their bicycle; that’s a middle class car-owning ‘keen cyclist’ recruitment drive.

      I’m guessing the idea is the recreational cyclists can drown out the voices of the lifestyle cyclists.

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11. Sometimes I think ol’Nige

    Sometimes I think ol’Nige just opens the door, throws a firecracker in and watches us all dance. 

     

     

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12. VIne was essentially riding

    VIne was essentially riding ahead of the taxi at a lane merge – the two lanes at the light disappeared and turned into a single wide lane. Therefore as VIne was ahead, the lane is his. He then had to move across because of the obstruction and the marked zones. Was a signal necessary? – no. Was it a useful asserting his changing of position when faced with a driver who was not obviously giving space to a vulnerable road user? – yes.

    Was passing someone whose signal was interpreted as a right turn appropriate, of course not – and as taxis u-turn and cyclists may be heading for a pavement, it is not unreasonable for the taxi to assume they might be exiting at the right at some random place, which makes the excuse even more peculiar.

    I don’t think Vine presents well to traffic on some of the videos – he does seem a bit wobbly and ponderous in his cycling – if you are going to mix it with mainstream traffic you do have to cooperate to some extent. I would have thought he would be a bit fitter by now so I am surprised how slow he seems. If you are going to impose on the traffic, having a bit more speed to impose yourself does help. If you are going to be  a potterer there are times when you perhaps have to accept that you cannot readily merge into traffic so I do think he generates some of his problems with his style of cycling at times – but that is not to say he is not allowed to cycle in a sedate manner. As Vine shows, in the end, pottering is as quick as pounding the streets, so it is just the taxi driver’s frustration.

    As an aside, I had a little wander from the City up to Whitechapel and Brick Lane on Saturday just for an explore, and I was impressed how little traffic there was around the Whitechapel area.

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    • IanMSpencer wrote:

      I don’t think Vine presents well to traffic on some of the videos – he does seem a bit wobbly and ponderous in his cycling – if you are going to mix it with mainstream traffic you do have to cooperate to some extent. I would have thought he would be a bit fitter by now so I am surprised how slow he seems. If you are going to impose on the traffic, having a bit more speed to impose yourself does help.

      — IanMSpencer

      In all fairness it’s a problem shared by Rendel Harris too and many other London cyclists – when you have gigantic chips on your shoulders weighing you down, you’re never going to be particularly stable or spritely are you?

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      • Fuck off, troll.
        Fuck off, troll.

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      • Many years ago there was a

        Many years ago there was a small cafe on the corner of Bellhouse Road and Windmill Road. Me and my mum went in and I had egg and chips and a bottle of Mandora. Very nice it was too. The lady who owned the cafe and cooked the food was very pleasant. Do you know who it was? Marti Caine. That’s right, you heard. Marti. Caine. One of our most loved female entertainers. Of course this was a long time before she became a star of stage and small screen. The cafe didn’t last long – it was a bit too far away from the main parade of shops. If it had been a bit nearer I suspect it may have been more successful. I think it became a hairdressers after that, and then turned back into a normal house. I’ve got to stop writing now, I’ve got a dog pawing at my leg. Call me, Ishmael

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        • perce wrote:

          Many years ago there was a small cafe on the corner of Bellhouse Road and Windmill Road. Me and my mum went in and I had egg and chips and a bottle of Mandora. Very nice it was too. The lady who owned the cafe and cooked the food was very pleasant. Do you know who it was? Marti Caine. That’s right, you heard. Marti. Caine. One of our most loved female entertainers. Of course this was a long time before she became a star of stage and small screen. The cafe didn’t last long – it was a bit too far away from the main parade of shops. If it had been a bit nearer I suspect it may have been more successful. I think it became a hairdressers after that, and then turned back into a normal house. I’ve got to stop writing now, I’ve got a dog pawing at my leg. Call me, Ishmael

          — perce

          Well, that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time.

          Surprisingly, she beat both Lenny Henry and Victoria Wood to win New Faces back in ’75. I don’t quite understand how, but she was featured on ‘This Is Your Life’ twice. Unfortunately she died at the relatively young age of 50.

          There’s a 2017 film based on her: Funny Cow

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          • No I don’t understand how

            No I don’t understand how either. I thought Funny Cow was quite a good film though

          • perce wrote:

            No I don’t understand how either. I thought Funny Cow was quite a good film though

            — perce

            Haven’t seen it, so I had a quick look on the open seas for it. Strangely, there’s an “uncensored” version and I’m now curious as to what was censored.

      • Sorry, I meant Windmill Lane

        Sorry, I meant Windmill Lane

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      • Nigel Garrage wrote:

        In all fairness it’s a problem shared by Rendel Harris too and many other London cyclists – when you have gigantic chips on your shoulders weighing you down, you’re never going to be particularly stable or spritely are you?

        — Nigel Garrage

        Never mind Nigel, you’ve got a few years on me yet, if you keep on plugging away and practising hard one day you might be as good at bike handling as me, and then you won’t go ploughing into potholes and expecting hard-working council taxpayers to shell out as a result of your incompetence.

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        • It was a nasty little pothole

          It was a nasty little pothole actually, as a result of someone’s “handywork” at patching up a road repair – it was wet the day I went into it and it was literally hidden.

          This is the kind of thing that needs resolving urgently – potholes have proliferated as councils waste money on rubbish cycle paths and other pointless infrastructure.

          Photo attached, look at the jagged line and the pathetic attempt to patch it previously – what a disgrace! Suffice to say they fixed it properly pronto after being hit with the legal wrath of British Cycling.

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          • Rakia wrote:

            It was a nasty little pothole actually, as a result of someone’s “handywork” at patching up a road repair – it was wet the day I went into it and it was literally hidden.

            — Rakia

            When you’ve got a bit more experience you might learn not to ride into puddles perhaps, older and wiser riders know they can always be hiding potholes. Ride to the conditions, resist that newbie temptation to go as fast as you can just so you can claim to be fastest in your club (nobody cares, they really don’t), learn to read the road ahead and how to steer round hazards then you won’t do any damage, either to yourself or the poor old taxpayer who has to pay your compo.

          • Much as a driver you should
            Much as a driver you should avoid potholes and puddles. Strange how many drivers choose to tank through puddles, knowing the state of the roads. Methinks Nigel is something of a novice road user.

          • I think it may be something

            I think it may be something akin to a child jumping in a puddle except they don’t get wet in their metal box. 

          • TBH, seems to be riding very

            TBH, seems to be riding very close to the side of the road there, especially with no bailout option as it looks like hedges / undergrowth. Maybe the concussion from the crash caused him to think he came from another country and be racist with his depiction when joining as Rakia, but then you realise he has always been racist. 

          • Nope, it was positioned

            Nope, it was positioned exactly where a top cyclist would cycle:

             

          • Rakia wrote:

            Nope, it was positioned exactly where a top cyclist would cycle:

            — Rakia

            No cyclist with any sense would choose that line, which clearly would have your left-hand drop virtually touching the hedge on the left. In addition, you previously stated it was covered with water and so hidden, you don’t have to be a top cyclist to know that it’s stupid to ride into standing water without knowing what’s underneath. Don’t worry, it’s a common newbie error and you’ve got time to learn, it’s just a bit of a shame for the taxpayer that you decided that your inexperience and basic beginner’s error entitled you to compensation when a truly sensible and courteous cyclist would have held their hands up and accepted it as a learning experience.

          • .

            .

          • As Rendel says. Any competent

            As Rendel says. Any competent cyclist would have been further out to mitigate this incident. It gives them better visibility, allows for bailout action and discourages close passes. A competent cyclist would also avoid standing water like the plague.  If I come across a ford when out I approach with extreme caution or use the side bridge for pedestrians. The HC recommends 50cm min as does Roadcraft, motorcycle instructors, police drivers (traffic branch) and IAM. 
            I thought you would have been aware of all these things being the top cyclist that you are. Nice try though. 

          • Is that the best pothole you

            Is that the best pothole you could find on Google?! That’s pathetic. This is the one I “rode” into t’other day. Now my superior MTB skills meant I easily rode it out as well, one day you may get as good as me. 
            Anyway See you next Tuesday. 

          • Pfffft.
            Pfffft.
            Call that a pot hole?

            I bunny hopped this one. Mad Danny Mac skills me – even a child knows that.

      • I also met famous actor and

        I also met famous actor and comedian Bobby Knutt a few years later when he opened a local furniture store. He played Bryan’s boss in Coronation Street. I can’t say he was a good actor but he was far better than the guy who played Bryan who was Gail’s first husband. I’ve not watched Coronation Street for ages so I don’t know how many husbands she has had since. He seemed totally bored to be there.We gave each other a cursory nod but didn’t speak to each other. I think he would have preferred to be some where else – perhaps playing golf with Ken Barlow and Mike Baldwin, or paragliding in the Seychelles, or fishing in Ireland, or hot air ballooning in Egypt, or cutting meat up in an abattoir. I guess we’ll never know. Back in the day furniture shops seemed to be the only shops open on a Sunday. How times have changed. I hear they are changing the name of your cycling club from the Stonecutters

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        • perce wrote:

          I also met famous actor and comedian Bobby Knutt a few years later when he opened a local furniture store. He played Bryan’s boss in Coronation Street. I can’t say he was a good actor but he was far better than the guy who played Bryan who was Gail’s first husband. I’ve not watched Coronation Street for ages so I don’t know how many husbands she has had since. He seemed totally bored to be there.We gave each other a cursory nod but didn’t speak to each other. I think he would have preferred to be some where else – perhaps playing golf with Ken Barlow and Mike Baldwin, or paragliding in the Seychelles, or fishing in Ireland, or hot air ballooning in Egypt, or cutting meat up in an abattoir. I guess we’ll never know. Back in the day furniture shops seemed to be the only shops open on a Sunday. How times have changed. I hear they are changing the name of your cycling club from the Stonecutters

          — perce

          I’ve met Helen Worth, who play Gail, as she’s married to a (now retired) teacher at my children’s school.  And my mother was at school with Sue Nichols, who plays Audrey Roberts (Gail’s on screen mum).

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      • Rakia wrote:

        when you have gigantic chips on your shoulders weighing you down, you’re never going to be particularly stable or spritely are you?

        — Rakia

        Speaking from experience, I suspect.

        From what I’ve seen on here over the years, it can’t be easy being you Nigel.

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    • but Vine doesnt ride in

      but Vine doesnt ride in cycling gear does he ? so he’s going to be riding a sedate pace so as not to get too hot & sweaty in his work clothes, which is understandable, whether its the best choice for riding in London I dont know.

      I did have a pet theory there was a speed around 13mph that induced the most close pass problems as a cyclist, as you’re not slow enough for traffic to have no problem at all passing you quickly, but not quick enough to sprint ahead of situations like in his video.

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      • I wonder how fast he must go

        I wonder how fast he must go between the channel 5 slot, ending 11:15 and answering Ken Bruce’s questions at 11:30? Or the start of his show on Radio2 at 12.

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        • its television I doubt its

          its television I doubt its 100% live 😉

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        • ktache wrote:

          I wonder how fast he must go between the channel 5 slot, ending 11:15 and answering Ken Bruce’s questions at 11:30? Or the start of his show on Radio2 at 12.

          — ktache

          I know this from someone who works at Channel 5 (not that it’s any secret): the last 45 minutes of the C5 show are prerecorded around 8AM before the live show starts, and the ITN studios in Grays Inn Road (where C5 films) are less than 2kms from Wogan House from whence the R2 show is broadcast, so plenty of time to make it providing he doesn’t stop for too many altercations en route.

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          • Thanks Rendal.

            Thanks Rendal.

13. I know Le Col stuff is

    I know Le Col stuff is expensive, though always on permanent discount it feels (check the black friday deals) though the Pendleton stuff is really nice…400k as a kit supplier ? seriously ?

    did you see the national champs kit they made for Alice Towers ? well probably not because conti level races dont get much media coverage 🙂

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    • I don’t think Le Col were

      I don’t think Le Col were just a kit supplier – £400k on 14 riders, that’s over £25k a rider (it’s not Rapha). I suspect they’re kit supplier and then pay a premium to be title sponsor. Hence stepping back, and remaining as kit sponsor, they could do that for more like £40k. 

      Always found the Le Col pricing model confusing. There’s a so-called RRP, then join a Strava challenge, ride your bike, £50 off. Join LC-CC, connect your Strava account, earn a point for every km ridden. Points = more discount. 

      That said, it’s good stuff, I have a fair amount of it, but haven’t really paid full price for any of it. 

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      • my tongue was firmly in my

        my tongue was firmly in my cheek with that comment just because their kit is very expensive and yet always on discount 🙂

        Im just amazed they had that much spare cash to sponsor a team at that level, and then like it seems alot of kit makers in cycling do, never learn how to exploit it properly.

         

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      • I swapped a pair of Sony

        I swapped a pair of Sony noise cancelling headphones (big over ear ones, not second hand earwax ones) for a pair of Le Col winter gloves. Gotta say, very happy with the gloves. I genuinely hope they last a long time. 

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