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‘It’s not called road tax!’; Autumn Statement reaction; Anti-LTN activists make video game where cyclists “transform streets”, and it’s fun; Le Col-Wahoo in danger after sponsor pulls out; Wiggins Jr aims high; Nairo’s coming home? + more on the live blog

It’s Thursday and Ryan Mallon’s back for the penultimate live blog of the week, hoping it goes down better than Jeremy Hunt’s autumn statement
17 November 2022, 17:49
“By putting ‘Road Tax’ into the headline, the BBC is pushing (yet again) an anti-cycling agenda”: Reaction to BBC’s VEDisaster as cyclists blast broadcaster for referring to ‘road tax’

After the BBC (as well as the Treasury, and the Guardian) took on the role of the classic anti-cycling punter by referring to ‘road tax’ in a headline about the Autumn Statement, road.cc reader hawkinspeter decided to complain to the broadcaster.

Here’s the complaint:

The article has a headline ‘Electric car drivers to pay road tax from April 2025’ and this is completely inaccurate. The article refers to VED and not ‘Road Tax’ as that hasn’t existed since 1937.

What is particularly annoying about this is that a certain segment of the population refers to ‘Road Tax’ when complaining specifically about cyclists and so by putting ‘Road Tax’ into the headline, the BBC is pushing (yet again) an anti-cycling agenda and prompting yet more abuse against cyclists out on the road.

There is literally no sensible reason to use the incorrect and out-of-date ‘Road Tax’ except to try to hurt people who cycle.

Meanwhile, IanMK was confused about something missing from the instructions of Brighton’s latest cycling video game sensation.

"How do you know when you’ve won?" he asked. "Is it the point at which climate catastrophe is averted?"

Great point...

17 November 2022, 14:15
‘Stop saying Road Tax!’

On the subject of vehicle excise duty applying to electric vehicles from 2025, or as Auntie Beeb calls it, the mythical ‘road tax’:

Remarkably, it’s not just the BBC referring to ‘road tax’ like they’re your favourite anti-cycling bingo caller down the pub.

Even the government itself is failing to keep up with the times (which in this case means anything after 1937, so par for the course for the Conservatives then)…

Toby also makes another interesting point about the BBC’s rather casual use of language, which – as the corporation itself told us a few weeks ago – isn’t that important after all:

> “We try to use language that ordinary people use”: BBC defends use of “accident” to describe road traffic collisions 

17 November 2022, 16:48
Meanwhile, over at GB News and Fair Fuel UK…

Head on over to our sister site ebiketips for the full story:

> Electric car owners may have to pay VED – but there are plans to raise fuel duty by 23% 

17 November 2022, 16:06
Ben Wiggins and Bradley Wiggins, 2022 British Track Championships (Will Palmer/SWpix.com)
“My dream is to win Flanders, Roubaix, the world championships, and wear the yellow jersey”: Ben Wiggins has big ambitions

It will come as no surprise to most that 2012 Tour de France winner and self-styled Mod icon Bradley Wiggins’ son, Ben, is not lacking in confidence.

The 17-year-old, who is currently racing in the ‘future’ field at the famous Gent Six Day, has set his sights on winning big as soon as possible.

“My goal next year is to be junior world champ on the road and track,” he told Belgian media at t’Kuipke velodrome earlier this week. “It’s big, but you have to have big ambitions otherwise there’s no point really. I have a lot of confidence in myself and my ability.”

Clearly. But young Ben won’t be just content with a pair of junior rainbow jerseys.

“In an ideal world I’d be the best ever, but it’s not always an ideal world,” Wiggins Jr said. 

“My dream is to win Flanders and Roubaix, become world champion, and wear the yellow jersey in the Tour de France.

“Hopefully go higher than that as well, even bigger. I feel like I’ve got the work ethic and ambition to do that. So yeah, keep watching me.”

Ben Wiggins and Bradley Wiggins, 2022 British Track Championships (Will Palmer/SWpix.com)

[Will Palmer/SWpix.com]

Ben’s early appearance at t’Kuipke means that three generations of the Wiggins family have now raced on the boards of the venerable old velodrome in Gent, after dad Brad and grandfather Gary, an Australian six-day specialist in the 1980s.

“This was my father’s favourite place to race. His dad raced here as well, so three generations of Wiggins have raced on that track now,” Wiggins noted.

“It’s a special place. It’s the Mecca of cycling for hardcore cycling fans. I came here when he [Bradley] won with Cav in 2016.

“I hear stories all the time, my dad loves this place. It’s hard to put into words. I got goosebumps just walking in. There’s an atmosphere about the place you don’t get anywhere else. It’s special.”

When asked to compare himself to his Olympic gold medal-winning father, Wiggins added: “I’m quite similar to my dad, maybe, but there are a lot of similarities with my grandad, Gary, as well.

“My dad was quite skinny and I’m a bit bigger. I don’t want to put a label on what I am yet because I’m still young. People said my dad would never be able to climb when he was younger.

“I want to win everything, so we’ll have a go.”

What are the odds for the 2030 Tour de France?

17 November 2022, 15:25
‘Imagine when he gets Zwift’: Eliud Kipchoge hits the turbo trainer

Just think, the next time you’re in the shed struggling to turn the pedals on Zwift, marathon world record holder Eliud Kipchoge could be in charge of the avatar blowing past you.

38-year-old Kipchoge has joined the millions of cyclists around the world dedicated – or confined – to the turbo trainer this winter, and posted a video of himself trying out his new indoor set-up, sent to him by L39ION of Los Angeles pro (and son of Olympic-winning middle distance runner Steve) Freddy Ovett.

“When Eliud Kipchoge, the GOAT, sends you a video rocking the kit you sent out,” Ovett, who has raced for Israel Cycling Academy and briefly as a stagiaire for BMC, and currently excels in the world of eSports, wrote on Instagram.

“Inspiring to see this legend using the bike as a tool to help redefine marathon running – epic. Zwift next?”

Kipchoge, an Ineos-sponsored runner who holds four of the five fastest marathon times in history, replied: “It’s wonderful to be on the bike, especially for my recovery! Freddy, you are inspiration to me my brother! We will go far on inspiration and empowerment of sport.”

Reminder – never enter a Zwift race with Kipchoge…

17 November 2022, 14:48
Come on Ineos, you know you want to…

Sounds like a plan. Will they do it? Probably not.

Gotta spend all that oil money on another Ganna hour record attempt…

17 November 2022, 13:13
BMW i3 electric car (licensed CC BY 2.0 by Karlis Dambris on Flickr).JPG
Autumn Statement reaction, part two: VED expansion “too soon” and “could discourage people from switching” to electric vehicles, says charging app founder

More from Jezza Hunt’s much-anticipated Autumn Statement today, as the Chancellor’s announcement (reported over the weekend by road.cc) that electric car owners will have to pay vehicle excise duty (VED) from April 2025 has been roundly criticised by those within the EV industry.

> 'Road tax' is coming... but not for cyclists

“At this critical time for our environment it is infuriating that the UK government would throw up a new barrier for people looking to change from a polluting car to electric power,” says Patrick Reich, the co-founder and CEO of EV charging app Bonnet.

“We should be speeding up the transition to zero emission transport, not slowing it down. While it’s accepted that as millions more people climb into electric cars that they would eventually have to pay some form of road pricing, the proposed 2025 timetable is too soon and could discourage people from switching earlier.”

17 November 2022, 12:52
Autumn Statement reaction: Import duty on aluminium bike frames reduced

We’ll have more on Jeremy Hunt’s Autumn Statement later, but here’s some of the reaction to the announcement that one of the Chancellor’s measures “will remove tariffs as high as 18 percent on goods ranging from aluminium frames used by UK bicycle manufacturers to ingredients used by UK food producers”:

Now, we just have to wait and see whether the dreaded cuts to the government’s active travel budget – which, if true, will be revealed later in the Treasury’s detailed spending plans – will actually come to fruition… 

17 November 2022, 12:08
Le Col Wahoo (press release)
Le Col-Wahoo in danger after sponsor pulls out, with riders told to find new teams

The precarious nature of pro cycling sponsorship appears to be on ongoing theme this winter, as Le Col-Wahoo revealed today that it is scrambling to secure the squad’s survival after one of its sponsors pulled out, almost halving the UK-based women’s team’s budget.

While it’s not yet clear which of the squad’s main backers has pulled out, sports director Tom Varney told VeloNews this morning that it will leave a hole of around €400,000 in the budget for 2023.

Le Col and Wahoo came on board to sponsor the second-tier team, formerly known as Drops, in 2021 and 2022 respectively, and oversaw a boost in the outfit’s finances and stature. The British team took part in the first edition of the revamped Tour de France Femmes this year, with their highest overall placing coming courtesy of Manx rider Lizzie Holden (on her way to UAE Team ADQ for next season), who finished 36th on GC.

However, the last-minute withdrawal has left the team’s management scrambling – both to fill the sudden funding gap but also to help their riders find new teams for 2023.

Le Col Wahoo (Zac William/SWPix.com)

Zac Williams/SWPix.com

“One of our main partners has said that they can’t fulfil their agreement with us so as of last night I made all of the riders and staff aware that they should find another deal,” Varney told VeloNews.

“I’m also speaking with other managers that I know to try and help them with that as one of our priorities. As of this morning, I think three or four of them have something, which is helpful.

“If we can move on some of our highest-paid riders it gives us more of a chance of continuing. We have some other conversations ongoing to fill the gap but as things evolve in the next hours and days, I think what we can do next year will become clearer. It is a particularly unfair situation to be put in, especially at this stage.”

While Varney is rushing to secure contracts for his riders elsewhere, he remains optimistic that the team will be able to continue in some fashion, perhaps at a lower level, next year.

He added: “As things stand, we have our second highest budget for next year, so it’s still a positive situation based on what we’re used to. It’s not near what we had last season.

“I think the most likely situation is that we’ll continue on at a lower level, but I don’t know what that will look like and what structure and race program we can provide.

“I’m not shying away from it, and I’m trying to help riders and speaking to managers. We have a lot of good people who have taken it quite well considering. Let’s see how it evolves.”

17 November 2022, 11:51
Nairo Quintana 2022 TDF (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
Nairo’s coming home: Could a third-tier Colombian squad save Quintana’s career?

While most of the cycling world focuses intently on the ongoing ‘Saga of Cav and the precarious French team’, former Giro and Vuelta winner Nairo Quintana’s future in the sport remains up in the air.

The 32-year-old Colombian is currently without a home for 2023 after Arkéa-Samsic – the French squad he joined in 2020 – distanced themselves from Quintana and pulled out of a planned three-year contract extension after he tested positive for the painkiller tramadol at this summer’s Tour de France.

While Quintana has continued to deny taking the drug (which won’t be on WADA’s banned list until 2024 but is currently prohibited in-competition by the UCI), at the start of November the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) upheld the former Movistar man’s disqualification from the Tour, and loss of his sixth place on GC.

With Quintana’s professional career teetering on the precipice of drug-related ignominy (don’t forget, the diminutive climber was also the subject of a criminal investigation into alleged doping following a raid at the 2020 Tour), several WorldTour squads have already moved to distance themselves from the Colombian’s signature.

However, a small window of opportunity may have finally opened for Quintana – in the shape of third-tier Colombian squad, Team Medellín EPM.

The Continental outfit, which this year won the Vuelta a Colombia and boasts old-timers such as Fabio Duarte and – remarkably – 46-year-old Operación Puerto alumnus Óscar Sevilla, issued a ‘come and sign for us’ appeal on Twitter this morning, promising Quintana both a return to his roots and a full diet of top-level racing.

“Nairo is our great representative of Colombian cycling to the world,” the team tweeted. “For this reason, from Team Medellín EPM, we offer you to continue your sports career with us with a wide national and international calendar.

“How proud it would be for Medellín for you to represent us.”

While the three-time Tour de France podium finisher is yet to respond to Medellín’s rather ambitious plea, VeloNews reports that he is continuing to train in preparation for 2023 and will host his Gran Fondo Nairo in, funnily enough, Medellín this weekend.

Retired pro Víctor Hugo Peña, the first Colombian to wear the yellow jersey at the Tour de France, told the country’s media this week that he expects Nairoman to continue racing next year and beyond.

The former US Postal rider and teammate of Lance Armstrong (so he knows a thing or two about emerging unscathed from sticky situations) said: “This is proving hard for him, but that’s when the great ones are forged.

“I confide in him, and he’s a strong guy, who’ll cry, wipe away the tears, and he will continue. I am positive he will not give up. What he has to do is speak with his legs, and do what he’s always done, this guy with a hard and strong face. Now is the time that he has to go forward, and that would be one of his most important victories.”

17 November 2022, 10:24
It’s that time of the year again, folks…

I’d completely forgotten all about the giant, paper mache Stefan Küng statue. It’s been a long year… 

17 November 2022, 09:47
Classic Twitter Bantz

This is the kind of top-notch banter we’ll miss when Elon Musk finally ruins Twitter for good (not to mention the live blog will be a much shorter affair).

17 November 2022, 09:18
Brighton anti-LTN game (Stop the LTN)
Anti-LTN activists make video game where cyclists “transform streets” – and it’s actually pretty fun

If you’re the type of person who, after a tough commute home from work, likes to spend the long winter nights huddled around the Sega Mega Drive (or whatever the kids are playing these days), I have just the game for you.

‘Brighton & Hove City Council’s Local Traffic Nightmare’ (snappy title, I know) combines two things dear to the heart of every road.cc reader: riding bikes and helping to make our roads a safer, more pleasant experience for everyone.

In the game, says the helpful (and hilarious, but we’ll get to that in a minute) instructions page, “your mission is to make using cars an extremely unpleasant experience so the residents give up – they can either walk or cycle.” Sounds brilliant.

Once you click ‘Play’, you will enter the game’s Farfisa organ-soundtracked 2D world, where you can ride around, installing cycle lanes, bike hangars, and planters for Low Traffic Neighbourhoods as you go.

> Council "investigating" after driver outrage at cycle hangar "deliberately" blocking car parking spaces

Admittedly, the gameplay isn’t exactly Pro Cycling Manager, the graphics belong in a 1980s arcade, and your computer feels on the verge of a catastrophic meltdown the whole time you’re playing it…

But hey, a game where you can simply ride your bike around and make streets safer at the same time – what’s not to love?

Brighton anti-LTN game instructions (Stop the LTN)

What’s that? The game is actually the brainchild of a bunch of anti-LTN activists in Brighton?

Well, you could knock me down with a Volkswagen Polo.

According to the Argus, the game was invented by campaigners opposed to Brighton & Hove City Council’s plans to install a ‘Liveable Neighbourhood’ in the Hanover and Tarner area of the city, to parody the “absurd idea”.

Anti-LTN campaigner Chris Beaumont told the Argus: “It’s a lot of fun and a very tongue-in-cheek look at the way these things have developed.

Chris says the game, based on a similar arcade-themed satire of Southern Rail, “does get the message across and highlights the absurdity of what’s going on. It’s a great idea and some people will find it funny.”

> Anti-cycle lane councillor now furious that HGVs are putting schoolchildren in danger

Ah, of course – now all that stuff in the instructions about the “collateral damage” of LTNs, “extending the misery”, and “knowingly and intentionally making residents’ lives painful” makes sense now. Well, it doesn’t, but you know what I mean.

Interestingly – and I’m not claiming that this says anything about the perspectives of those involved in the making of the game – when your mini cyclist rides on the pavement, you’re reprimanded for “hitting an elderly person”.

But… when a motorist strikes you, knocking you from your bike, the car also explodes into pieces, and you’re pointedly told: “You have been caught being bad at cycling”.

Hmmm…

Brighton anti-LTN game gameplay (Stop the LTN)

Brighton & Hove City Council told the Argus they are aware of the game, and criticised it for its “inflammatory and disappointing language”.

A spokesperson for the council said: “The Liveable Neighbourhood trial aims to reduce the ongoing creep of traffic into residential streets.

“This would make our streets safer and our air cleaner for residents, and discourage unnecessary car journeys.

“All properties will still be accessible by vehicle. We’re also working to ensure the needs of people with disabilities are considered.”

As for the game? I think I’ll stick to PCM, thanks.

Ryan joined road.cc in December 2021 and since then has kept the site’s readers and listeners informed and enthralled (well at least occasionally) on news, the live blog, and the road.cc Podcast. After boarding a wrong bus at the world championships and ruining a good pair of jeans at the cyclocross, he now serves as road.cc’s senior news writer. Before his foray into cycling journalism, he wallowed in the equally pitiless world of academia, where he wrote a book about Victorian politics and droned on about cycling and bikes to classes of bored students (while taking every chance he could get to talk about cycling in print or on the radio). He can be found riding his bike very slowly around the narrow, scenic country lanes of Co. Down.

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114 comments

Avatar
joe9090 | 1 year ago
0 likes

It's Ghent. Not Gent.

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Rendel Harris replied to joe9090 | 1 year ago
3 likes

joe9090 wrote:

It's Ghent. Not Gent.

Gent is the Dutch/Flemish spelling and the one the inhabitants themselves use, so it's perfectly acceptable, as is the English (and only English) Ghent.

Avatar
Kapelmuur replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
2 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

joe9090 wrote:

It's Ghent. Not Gent.

Gent is the Dutch/Flemish spelling and the one the inhabitants themselves use, so it's perfectly acceptable, as is the English (and only English) Ghent.

My late mother was from Geraardsbergen and proud of being Flemish, she would immediately correct any Frenchification of Flemish names.

God help anyone who referred to her home town as 'Grammont'.

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Steve K | 1 year ago
2 likes

They said 'road tax' again on the Today programme this morning.

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The Accountant replied to Steve K | 1 year ago
0 likes

People say road tax because that's what it is. They might obfuscate it by calling it "VED" or some other term, but it's still road tax.

Just like National insurance is an income tax.

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
8 likes

In what respect is VED a 'road tax'? Roads are paid from general taxation. Income Tax is more of a 'road tax' than VED.

Good job proving the point though. When they talk about increasing National Insurance, they call it 'National Insurance' and not 'income tax' even though NI is a tax on income. E.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62998661

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chrisonabike replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
6 likes

You call it trolling but that's misdirection!  It's clearly healthy debate about issues that are important to me; it's not defending the indefensible - it can't be, because I'm defending it!  Thankfully lots of - constructive - points have been made by several (1) people...

Avatar
Simon E replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
6 likes

Rakia wrote:

People say road tax because that's what it is. They might obfuscate it by calling it "VED" or some other term, but it's still road tax.

It's not Road Tax, it's a tax on the vehicle. There's no obfuscation.

The rate depends on the vehicle and nothing else. Many people call it Road Tax because media outlets and even manufacturers (incorrectly) use that term. Its continued use serves to perpetuate a widespread misconception that VED pays for road maintenance when that is patently not true, just like fuel duty, the duty on alcohol, VAT, insurance tax and a myriad others.

Next you'll be telling us that Brexit doesn't really mean Brexit at all, that's an obfuscation and it is in fact a magic money pot because it was written in big letters on a bus (one of many barefaced lies told by the Tories over the last 12 years).

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The Accountant replied to Simon E | 1 year ago
1 like
Simon E wrote:

It's not Road Tax, it's a tax on the vehicle. There's no obfuscation.

Wrong, it isn't a tax on the vehicle. If you don't drive or keep the vehicle on the road, you don't have to pay the tax. This is different to, say council tax, where even if your don't live in the house you still pay the tax. Hence "road tax" is the most appropriate name.

As for the other bloke who said it isn't road tax because it isn't spent on the roads, taxes are named according to what they tax rather than what they are spent on. For example, cigarette tax doesn't enable people to buy more cigarettes does it?

Sheesh, you remainers really are easy to hoodwink, aren't you?

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
7 likes
Rakia wrote:

Sheesh, you remainers really are easy to hoodwink, aren't you?

I love how you assume we're remainers because we show a modicum of intelligence. Says it all really.

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marmotte27 replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
7 likes

So road tax taxes roads?
Wow, you brexiters really are easy to hoodwink.

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perce replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
6 likes

In the words of Le Clerque, this matter is outside the true province of the conscientious commentator in as much as being unable to say aught that is charitable or useful, he must preserve silence

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chrisonabike replied to perce | 1 year ago
3 likes

Is that this one?  I have to ask because he's a master of disguise.

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Simon E replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
6 likes

Rakia wrote:

Wrong, it isn't a tax on the vehicle. If you don't drive or keep the vehicle on the road, you don't have to pay the tax.

F..k me, you are either supremely dense or you do this solely to get a response.

The vehicle is what is taxed, the condition is that it is intended for use on public highways. If I want to use it on the road I also need insurance, which includes insurance tax, but this is not a 'road tax' either.

If I am not the registered keeper of a car or I have a tax-exempt vehicle (e.g. a 'historic vehicle') I pay no VED but I can still use the roads.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Simon E | 1 year ago
5 likes

Simon E wrote:

F..k me, you are either supremely dense or you do this solely to get a response.

Most likely both

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
6 likes

Rakia wrote:

As for the other bloke who said it isn't road tax because it isn't spent on the roads, taxes are named according to what they tax rather than what they are spent on.  

Which is why it's called vehicle excise duty, not road excise duty, because it taxes the vehicle, not the use of the road; it doesn't matter whether you drive 100,000 miles a year or 10, your vehicle is taxed the same. 

If anyone sees somebody limping around leafy Essex, stop and give Nigel a lift with you, he appears to have just shot himself in the foot. No wonder he's so keen on using so many aliases, an accountant who showed himself unable to differentiate between different forms of taxation wouldn't be getting much business.

If you have a problem with it not being called road tax I suggest you take it up with that notorious woke lefty libtard Winston Churchill, who made the decision not to have a road tax.

Avatar
The Accountant replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
1 like

Rendel Harris wrote:

Which is why it's called vehicle excise duty, not road excise duty, because it taxes the vehicle, not the use of the road; it doesn't matter whether you drive 100,000 miles a year or 10, your vehicle is taxed the same. 

Are you a parrot? You've just repeated the false information Simon E spewed out a couple of hours ago. This road tax isn't a vehicle tax, because if you don't use your vehicle on the road, you don't pay the tax. It is therefore a road tax.

Surely even you, devoid of logic, wit and plain common sense, can see that. To make this really really really easy, IQ 70 easy for you, I will compare the tax to Zwift.

If you don't use Zwift, you do not pay for Zwift.

If, however, you go on Zwift once a month and do a minute session, you pay for Zwift. If you go on Zwift a hundred times a month and do the Alpe de Zwift 400 times, you pay for Zwift. You are paying to use Zwift.

The same is true for roads. If you use the roads, you have to pay a tax to use the roads. If you don't use the roads, you don't have to pay a tax to use the roads. And this is the reason when the misnomer "vehicle tax" is in fact a road tax.

Business is good by the way. Very good. After leftist chancellor Hunt brought in these anti-work measures yesterday people are diving to find out how they can be avoided. Much better to avoid paying tax than simply give up work altogether, which appears to be the modus operandi of both the leftist Tory and Liebour parties.

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quiff replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
4 likes

Rakia wrote:

If you use a vehicle of certain types on the roads, you have to pay a tax to use that vehicle on the roads. If you don't use that vehicle on the roads, you don't have to pay a tax to use that vehicle on the roads.

Meanwhile, other types of vehicle can be used on the roads without paying a specific tax for the privilege. 

And this is the reason when the why "road tax" is a misnomer "vehicle tax" is in fact a road tax.

FTFY

[EDIT: if we're being pernickety (and I think we are), I should in each case have said "use or keep" the vehicle on the road.]

Avatar
The Accountant replied to quiff | 1 year ago
1 like

Dreary me, this logic is getting worse and worse. It's like debating about Mr Tumble with a bunch of two year olds.

Just because some vehicles don't pay the tax doesn't mean the tax isn't a road tax. I might buy cigarettes in duty free, to use a previous example.

This doesn't stop the fact that for those people who are paying the tax, it is a road tax.

  • If they didn't use the roads, they would not pay the tax.
    • If they use the vehicles, they do not necessarily pay the tax. I could race my car on Silverstone and not pay the tax, despite the fact I'm using the vehicle.
  • If they use the road, they do pay the tax.
  • It is therefore a necessary condition of paying the tax that the vehicle has to use the public road. Therefore the tax is a road tax.

I'll have a think about some other even more simple examples later, maybe involving dinosaurs, Minecraft or Ryan's World. Ta ta for now.

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
3 likes

Rakia wrote:
  • It is therefore a necessary condition of paying the tax that the vehicle has to use the public road. 

If you pay VED you have to use the public road? So if you pay the tax and for some reason don't drive or park on the road that year you get sanctioned?

Love watching stupid people trying to be clever. 

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hawkinspeter replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
6 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

If you pay VED you have to use the public road? So if you pay the tax and for some reason don't drive or park on the road that year you get sanctioned?

Love watching stupid people trying to be clever. 

Debating with stupid trolls is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon -- it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

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The Accountant replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
0 likes

This is going to really brass you off, but do you know the reason why so many people debate with me?

Because they love it!

And who wouldn't? Yes, Rendel had a "gotcha" moment there when he pored over my words and spotted an erroneous transposition. I'm a busy person and I'll own the mistake. I'm pleased to give him a morale boost, a spring in his step. It's Friday evening after all!

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quiff replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
5 likes

Yes, it is a necessary condition of paying the tax that a vehicle is used on the road. But the tax is paid only by those using vehicles. It is not paid by all who use the road. To my mind the tax is therefore defined more by vehicle use than road use - there are more road users who are not liable to the tax than there are vehicle users. I'd be happy to compromise on "Vehicle on Road Excise Duty", but since it's been called Vehicle Excise Duty since 1889, let's just stick with that.  

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perce replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
3 likes

Yes you are dreary. Who's Mr Tumble?

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quiff replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
2 likes

Rakia wrote:

Just because some vehicles don't pay the tax doesn't mean the tax isn't a road tax... This doesn't stop the fact that for those people who are paying the tax, it is a road tax.

By the same token you could say "just because some vehicles don't pay Air Passenger Tax doesn't mean it isn't a travel tax. For airline passengers, it's a travel tax." That wouldn't be a senisble classification - it is use of an aeroplane that is being taxed, not all travel. The fact that an individual has chosen a method of travel which attracts a tax does not mean that travel as a whole is taxed. 

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perce replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
8 likes

The beauty of reading a post of yours is that it leads one inescapably to the happy conviction that one is not, of all nincompoops, the greatest

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Velo-drone replied to The Accountant | 1 year ago
5 likes
Rakia wrote:

If you use the roads, you have to pay a tax to use the roads. If you don't use the roads, you don't have to pay a tax to use the roads. And this is the reason when the misnomer "vehicle tax" is in fact a road tax.

Except ... you don't. You can bike, or run, or skateboard, or horse-ride as much as you like on the roads and no need to pay any tax for using them.

But .... if you have two motor vehicles then you have to pay VED twice in order to use the same roads.

Huh ... almost like it wasn't actually a road tax, but a vehicle tax? Weird, isn't it?

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chrisonabike replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
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You know that situation where your offspring / pet / partner / boss complains that they can smell poo, and you spot some poo and clean it up, then you realise it was their poo, but now it's got on you, and now they're saying / looking at you like "you smell of poo"?

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Hirsute replied to Steve K | 1 year ago
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Obviously people who listen to radio 4 and Today are a bit thick and can't understand anything more than simple concepts.
At least that was their defence over previous criticism of language.

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Steve K replied to Hirsute | 1 year ago
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hirsute wrote:

Obviously people who listen to radio 4 and Today are a bit thick and can't understand anything more than simple concepts.

Guilty as charged.

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