“Does anyone at the BBC watch cycling?”: Fans furious after Tadej Pogačar snubbed for World Sport Star of the Year shortlist, claiming cycling has “gone to the bottom, behind darts”; Spotify Wrapped: Giro d’Italia edition + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
It’s official: Tom Pidcock joins Q36.5 Pro Cycling on a 3-year contract, featuring a shockingly underwhelming reveal video…
Looks like most of the UCI ProTeam’s budget went into his wages.
It was announced on Wednesday that Tom Pidcock had left Ineos Grenadiers, after months of reports depicting rifts and tensions between the two parties. The Swiss team Q36.5 emerged as the frontrunners to nab double-Olympic champion, having to allegedly pay €12 million to get the British rider out of his contract with Ineos which still had three years left on it.
“This isn’t just a change of jersey; it’s the start of something special,” said Pidcock. “The chance to work with a team that’s growing, with incredible partners and brands, is something that motivates me. I can’t wait to see what we’ll achieve together.”
Team Manager Doug Ryder said: “We are honoured to welcome Tom Pidcock to the Q36.5 Pro Cycling Team. Tom is a true embodiment of passion and competitive spirit, qualities that resonate deeply with our team’s values. His extraordinary talent, both on and off the bike, and his proven ability to win at the WorldTour level make him a game-changing addition to our roster. We look forward to writing this next chapter together.”
Luigi Bergamo, Chairperson of Q36.5 Pro Cycling Team, Founder, and R&D Director of Q36.5, added: “With his revolutionary, multi-disciplinary approach that has versatility at its heart, Tom is the perfect embodiment of our own approach to product development. Having Tom as part of the team offers us the opportunity not just to compete for victory at the world’s most prestigious races but also to continue to push the very boundaries of Q36.5’s vision of what the future of performance cycling clothing can be. I can’t wait to send him his first pair of Dottore bib shorts and hear what he thinks!”
Pidcock, who will join the Q36.5 Pro Cycling Team squad in the upcoming pre-season training camp, set to take place in Calpe, Spain in January, concluded saying: “I love racing my bike, and I’m looking forward to making that a priority. Joining a team that believes in me and shares my vision of success makes this an incredibly important step in my career. Let’s make it happen.”
“2025 is about to get lit”
Magnus Bäckstedt becomes the sporting director for Cofidis women’s team
After serving as the DS for Canyon-Sram, former Paris-Roubaix winner Magnus Bäckstedt has now joined the Cofidis women’ team as its sports director, the team claiming that he will give them edge in strategising their race especially in the classics.
The Swedish is often seen as one of the architects of the rise of the Canyon-Sram Racing team, and his departure from the team marks an end to the father-daughter duo with 20-year-old Welsh rider Zoe Bäckstedt.
Now, how do you say “Don’t chase my daughter” in French? I’d suppose Magnus might need use of that phrase soon…
Police joined by cycling campaign in stopping those riding without lights at night and issuing them tickets
After a couple of weeks ago in Oxford, now it’s time for Cambridge police to stop cyclists for not riding without lights at night, with more than 20 cyclists issued tickets on Milton Road, a busy road in Cambridge, reports Cambridgeshire Live.
A Cambridgeshire Police spokesperson said: “Officers, working alongside Camcycle – Cambridge Cycling Campaign have been back out on patrol stopping cyclists without lights on their bikes, this time in Milton Road. In the first hour more than 20 cyclists were stopped without lights. Some of them had lights but had just not turned them on.
“As part of the LIT scheme (lights instead of tickets), those without lights were given a ticket and the option to purchase lights within seven days and have their fine rescinded.”
The great active travel funding raid, coming soon to your local council chamber
“While there is a pothole black hole of hundreds of millions of pounds in Oxfordshire and the council is on course to miss its own walking and cycling targets, it beggars belief that the Lib Dems would take millions from the walking and cycling pot and spend it on building new roads, rather than fixing the roads they are already meant to look after or investing properly in walking and cycling,” a Labour county councillor said in his scathing critique of the local authority’s failure.
Some very soothing and relaxing bikeshop ASMR
Make sure your sound is on for this one! 🔊
“Cyclocross remains my first love”: Wout van Aert to return to CX, but only for six races — “purely out of love for the sport”
There are a handful of cyclists talented enough to excel in one discipline, let alone two. But Wout van Aert, along with the likes of Tom Pidcock and Mathieu van der Poel in the pro men’s peloton, is one of those who riders who are as talented on the road, as they are off it.
And it’d make sense, because for the 30-year-old Belgian, cyclocross is just not just an off-season excursion, it is his “first love”. So despite experiencing an injury-laden season (perhaps on par with Luke Shaw) — Van Aert only recently started his recovery process after his Vuelta crash — he’s decided to come back for a few cyclocross races.
The three-time cyclocross world champion has now announced his schedule for this winter, competing in Mol, Loenhout, Gullegem, Dendermonde, Benidorm, and Maasmechelen.
In a press release published by Visma-Lease a Bike, Van Aert said: “Cyclocross remains my first love, which is why I enjoy returning to it every winter. This winter, we’ve opted for a compact schedule of six races that fit well into my training plan. It will be a cyclocross season I approach purely out of love for the sport, but with modest ambitions. After my crash in the Vuelta and my knee injury, it’s essential to make the best use of the time I have to prepare for the road season. A few cyclocross races fit nicely into that plan, but the schedule is deliberately more limited than in previous years.”
Despite his storming performance in Benidorm this January, which saw him win one of the most dramatic cyclocross races ever in January without a saddle, Van Aert said that he doesn’t expect to hit top form in his first race in Mol. “That will be the first target to work toward, but I certainly won’t reach my highest level there,” he said, adding that he will join his team for a training camp after his first four races.
“After that camp, there are two great races on the calendar in Benidorm and Maasmechelen, where I expect to be in better condition. I’m incredibly excited to get back into the field and look forward to reconnecting with the fans,” Van Aert concluded.
Amsterdam? Paris? No, guess again — it's the mighty Tottenham!
Amsterdam? Nope. Paris? Guess again. This is Tottenham! A beautiful sight: kids on cargo bikes, kids cycling… a community embracing cycling. Brilliant to see! ❤️🚲💪
— Francesca 🚲💕 (@francescakms.bsky.social) 5 December 2024 at 19:22
Cyclist returns to UK after 6,000km ride across Europe… and has bike and possessions stolen outside noodle restaurant in Brighton
Phil Gallon, who had cycled to Turkey, says he’s “devastated” by the theft – which saw his late wife’s possessions stolen – and left “boiling with rage”, after police told him there was “no indication of CCTV at this incident”…
“Does anyone at the BBC watch cycling?”: Fans furious after Tadej Pogačar snubbed for World Sport Star of the Year shortlist, claiming cycling has “gone to the bottom, behind darts”
Imagine being the greatest living cyclist (arguably), and having what was the greatest single season in the history of cycling (arguably), but still deemed not good enough to even qualify for the BBC’s ‘Sports Personality of the Year – World Sports Star’ shortlist.
While I’d assume three-time Tour de France winner Tadej Pogačar isn’t losing any sleep over the snub, cycling fans have been quite vocal about it, passing pretty damning judgements on the decision and implying that the British broadcaster has failed to recognise cycling and one of sports’ greatest achievements in recent years.
The people shortlisted for the award include the world’s most decorated gymnast, Simone Biles, the number one pick in Women’s National Basketball Association who broke several records as a rookie this year, Caitlin Clark, five-time world champion wheelchair racer Catherine Debrunner, arguably the greatest pole vaulter of all time, Armand Duplantis, super middle- and long-distance runner Sifan Hassan, and global swimming superstar and heir apparent to Michael Phelps, Leon Marchand.
Notice any connections between the six? Almost all of them — the only exception being Clark — set the Paris Olympic Games alight with their dazzling performances and took home multiple medals. And given the importance Olympic performance can play in deciding the winner of such awards, many fans on social media have speculated that the committee overlooking Pogačar could very well come down to the Slovenian deciding to skip Paris — a decision that was talked about a lot due to Urška Žigart, the Slovenian national champion and Pogi’s partner, not making the national squad selection.
“Seems fully Olympics related, plus Caitlin Clark randomly. No Pogačar, no Sinner, laughable,” wrote one fan on social media, alluding to tennis’s top-ranked male player Janik Sinner, the 23-year-old himself having a commendable season, winning the Australian and the US Open, the ATP Finals, three Masters 1000s, and two ATP 500s, and also leading Italy to the Davis Cup win (and of course, having a good old doping case in the midst of it all).
However, there were others who strongly suggested that this could very come down to the BBC simply not giving professional cycling enough importance as a sport. The last time a cyclist won the award was all the way back in 1963, when Jacques Anquetil was named the overseas Sports Personality of the Year, for victories in the Tour de France, Vuelta a España, Paris-Nice, and the Critérium du Dauphiné that year (Lance Armstrong was subsequently stripped of the title after being awarded in 2003).
“You have to remember that no one at the BBC watches cycling.”
“Britain is not a cycling country — exhibit 3567.”
“The BBC are probably pissed off with him for snubbing their beloved Olympic Games. They are not serious people!”
“Typical. Cycling goes to the bottom. Behind darts.”
“Could argue for Remco as well, since no real British challengers in the Grand Tours, the BBC has completely forgotten about cycling and reporting on it — I’d also include Katie Ledecky instead of Biles or Clarke, a very short-sighted shortlist.”
Meanwhile, some people claimed that it could be due to the fact that it’s voted by those watching the BBC, making it tricky for stars from sports which the BBC doesn’t hold broadcasting right to, to make the cut.
“BBC would likely be more interested in Remco as he had Olympic success which the BBC broadcast, I’d wager most nominees are in sports they hold broadcast rights to.”
“It is defined as the BBC World Sports Star. The BBC does not cover world cycling events, except for the Olympics. The people on this list had outstanding performances at the Olympics. BBC viewers will have to vote for the winner, and sadly, most of them will not have followed cycling.”
And as with most online discussions, there were people who seemed content with the shortlist. One person said: “Is it? It’s an Olympic year and Remco won that. I don’t hate this list.”
Pogačar, meanwhile, has announced he was joining the United Nations’ global road safety campaign yesterday, aiming to promote road safety by recruiting celebrities and sportspeople to deliver messages “focusing on reducing risk factors” such as drink driving, texting at the wheel, and not wearing a bike helmet.
The Tour de France winner and world champion, said: “As a professional cyclist the open road is my workplace, and I live the reality of the danger of cycling in traffic almost every day.
“I am not alone, as millions of people around the world ride their bikes to work, school or just for leisure. The ability for people to ride their bikes safely is something we need to protect.
“I am happy to support this campaign and believe that together we can help to make the roads safer for everyone, cyclists and motorists alike.”
What do you think? Should the BBC have included Pogačar in the list? If yes, what’s your take on why he wasn’t? Let us know in the comments…
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@tomlew we can discuss both things, I don't see them as mutually exclusive. On the topic of comparison - have a look at the KOM / QOM times on the Mur du Huy ... Demi Vollering's winning time in 2026 is exactly the same as Tadej Pogacar's winning time in 2023. Women are closer than you might think. Let's see how it goes for Lael Wilcox ... she has a chance to set the outright record for riding around the world. On differences, I for sure enjoyed watching the Women's Giro this year and got a chance to see 1 stage. The more open access to the racers is quite surprising and gives extra appreciation for how they interact post finish line.
@tomlew Women's sport should of course remain protected. Hear hear. That women can excel at ultra-endurance, where short-term aerobic capacity becomes less and less important and mental strength/endurance becomes a major factor, obviously does NOT mean that we can set aside protection in other sports where aerobic capacity, strength, reaction time, or whatever, are the major factors - where women are at (varying) disadvantages to men. They're all amazing athletes at these high levels too, of course.
And to reinforce that, the previous record holder appears to have set it at the back end of a successful effort to set a new record for the greatest distance covered in a month - likely she would also have managed significantly further if she'd come to a specific effort fresh.
The 'alongside men' comment was in reference to the overall effort, which was better than any men has managed. The seven day result was in the context of an overall effort of nearly twice the length. If she'd focused specifically on the seven day record she'd almost certainly have gone further. The fact that it set a new women's record anyway likely just shows that few women have yet targeted it.
Do they also have a garage in which they don't keep their car(s)? It would be in keeping...
As far as I know, the men's 7-day record is 3,826.47 km. I am absolutely astonished by both the result and the manner in which the previous record was broken. However, it still demonstrates that women are far behind men in terms of absolute numbers. 15% is far to big a difference to call it "alongside men". Just to be clear: this takes nothing away from Sarah's spectacular achievement. If anything, it reinforces the argument that women's sport should remain a protected category. And that's perfectly fair and fine. Rather than trying to prove that "we can complete alongside each other," which still seems far from true, why not celebrate our differences and diversity?
There's a waiting list for the cycle storage units in my street. Why my neighbours bagged places in them makes no sense, given that they have a cellar with nothing in it.
Data from London shows a drop in crashes since the 20mph speed limits were introduced. There is a certain type of driver that shouldn't be behind the wheel no matter the speed limit though.
She's simply magnificent!
The 20 mph encouraging people to use their phones concept reminds me of possibly my favourite ever Private Eye cartoon, two muggers standing over their senseless victim going through his wallet and one saying to the other, "There's bound to be crime when idiots persist in carrying this sort of money around…" If drivers are admitting that they will break the law if they are given the opportunity to do so then clearly that is openly stating that giving them a licence to drive is about as sensible as giving a drug addict a pharmacist's licence.
68 thoughts on ““Does anyone at the BBC watch cycling?”: Fans furious after Tadej Pogačar snubbed for World Sport Star of the Year shortlist, claiming cycling has “gone to the bottom, behind darts”; Spotify Wrapped: Giro d’Italia edition + more on the live blog”
I don’t think pogacar will be
I don’t think pogacar will be too gutted at missing out on the BBC spoty overseas award. They whole thing is meaningless. It has been hijacked by celebrity and woke agendas. Given the choice of winning paris-roubaix or spoty, which do you think he will choose?
Mr Blackbird wrote:
I was with you until you used the word “woke”. Do you have something against treating people with respect and dignity even though they may not be the same colour/sex/gender/age/privilege/nationality as yourself?
No I am all for it. I think
No I am all for it. I think recognition for sporting achievements should be applied fairly and evenly irrespective of any differences. I feel that the BBC are deeply patronising at times. An example is their general non- critical coverage of the women’s hundred cricket and women’s tennis. It does the players a disservice, treats viewers like fools and does not encourage improvement.
Agreed. It seems a pretty
Agreed. It seems a pretty rubbishy ‘award’. My view is that Pogacar, Vingegaard and Evenepoel are clean astounding athletes, the carbon monoxide thing is a red herring, and vigorous anti-doping activity is working
Yes. I agree on doping. I
Yes. I agree on doping. I think that a majority of pro cyclists are clean. In grand tours, there are far more GC neutral days because it is no longer possible to contend every stage. The fear of being caught out by retrospective testing is a strong one.
Not that I think he’s doping,
Not that I think he’s doping, but Pogacar blew the rest of the peloton away on stage after stage of the Giro and Tour.
I didn’t notice all that many GC neutral days except the sprint stages.
Breakaway stages?
Breakaway stages?
I’d say it’s a nice award to
I’d say it’s a nice award to win, but anyone who has done enough in their actual sport to get on the short-list and be well known and popular enough to then get enough votes to win it is unlikely to be especially impressed by actually winning. Those people chase prizes that are not for popularity. If they are also big sports fans and follow sports other than their own then getting on the short-list, or even an invite, is going to be more special. But even Andy Murray, who is a massive fanboy of other athletes usually made his excuses and attended via satellite link from the side of a swimming pool in Miami.
On the other hand, their agents and sponsors will be delighted. Not that any winners are not happy to win – even the most dour or merit-focused athletes will be happy to know they are also popular.
One of the worst things about SPOTY is that every year there are fans of minority sports that don’t realise they are fans of minority sports that can’t understand why the three-time world champion in welly-throwing isn’t in on the short-list and get angry about it. Not saying that cycling is a minority sport, but there are lots of different sorts of cycling and not taking part in the Olympics in an Olympic year is going to count against you. A bit like the honours system, people like it when athletes want to represent their country and aren’t just chasing the trophies with the biggest prize money.
Big LOL to the idea that Sinner should have been on the list.
Worse, there are some who still don’t realise there are two main meanings of the word personality, and can’t understand why the winner isn’t the athelte with their idea of the best personality.
Maybe a different sponsor
Maybe a different sponsor would be needed? 😉
(Nevertheless – the quality and independence of the BBC are impressive and need to be supported – even if we’d like to see Tadej here…)
anke2 wrote:
Except when it comes to managing talent, dealing with complaints, apologising for editorial gaffes, and its non-zero tolerance approach to misogyny, bullying, harassment, homophobia etc.
The more I look at this, the
The more I look at this, the more I have this odd feeling that there is something off with this picture…
You don’t remember seeing
You don’t remember seeing those beautiful pastoral rolling hills from the top of le Tour Eiffel?
It wasn’t that, but I think
It wasn’t that, but I think my bike is a bit… bigger? And neither of my seat stays connect to the rear rim. And as I recall my shortest cranks are a fair bit longer than 100mm, and are centred on the bottom bracket…
I’ll be looking out for a pair of those magnetic levitating water bottles though, they look cool! Or is is aerogel brackets for thermal insulation there?
re: SPOTY
re: SPOTY
Well, firstly, who really cares anymore?
Secondly, whether cyclists like it or not, the UK isn’t Belgium; Cycling is a minor sport. And it’s a minor sport which has ridden well above its FTP in recent years, SPOTY-wise, despite being dogged by doping suspicions. So for a cyclist who isn’t representing GB to do well, they need “a story” (read into that what you will) which Pogi doesnt have.
Finally, I can only assume the BBC is planning to make something of Chris Hoy on what is sadly likely to be his last appearance on the show and that plus Olympic medals is cycling’s quota of screen-time for the year.
panda wrote:
Well quite, not all sports can be hugely popular and have mass participation like, um, polevaluting…
Rendel Harris wrote:
What are you saying? The cost of entry is just a stick! Or is it “but we don’t have dykes“? Not true!
Dining across the divide: ‘I
Dining across the divide: ‘I’m not anti cyclist. I’m anti cyclists who ignore red lights and drive three or four abreast in front of me’ (Grauniad)
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/dec/06/dining-across-the-divide-im-not-anti-cyclist-im-anti-cyclists-who-ignore-red-lights-and-drive-three-or-four-abreast-in-front-of-me
Spoiler: “Occupation: Police and crime commissioner for Surrey”
You can’t have a rational
You can’t have a rational discussion with people like that – “full-Sky-replica-kit Sunday cyclists” – only 5 years out of date. Surprised she didn’t use wiggins wannabies.
Hirsute wrote:
I’m torn because I am completely the opposite of her politically and find her views ridiculous, but on the other hand it’s not often that one hears Half Man Half Biscuit lyrics quoted by those in power. It may of course have been accidental…
Bless her. I reckon if you
Bless her. I reckon if you gave her two minutes to talk on cyclists she would get a full house on the anti-cyclist bingo.
“I know it’s not great but it would never be a political priority for me to give cyclists better infrastructure, particularly when they don’t contribute in vehicle taxes.”
Whos going to tell her that general taxation pays for a lot of the roads and other things we enjoy (or don’t in many cases). I think she might be shocked that many of us cycle and…own a car.
Oh and I’m not anti-car, I’m just anti drivers who put my life at risk, pollute the enviroment, trash our roads with their oversized wankpanzers and cause 99% of traffic from the sheer number of people on the roads, one person in the car, driving barely past the end of their road because they are so unfit and lazy that they can’t entertain the idea of moving from their sofa unless its in their car.
mctrials23 wrote:
What about all those schools that they keep building along with all of those highly paid teachers that get more time off than Gregg Wallace’s agent? I have it on good authority that NONE of those kids has ever paid tax. And then they’ve got the cheek to want us to slow down whilst we drive past – who do they think we are, some kind of priest?
brooksby wrote:
Crikey! I thought it was a joke!
Swung by to post the same
Swung by to post the same article, glad to see @brooksby beat me to it.
Depressing article viewpoint, but not surprising. Surrey seems to be the worst around here. From Reading I can easily ride out to Oxfordshire, Hampshire and Bucks and have a fine ride. I’ve given up cycling in Surrey however, the drivers are hateful (and hate-filled).
I assume this ill-informed trollop got voted in on a message supported by such drivers.
I can confirm there are an
I can confirm there are an awful lot of those drivers in Surrey and there is a much smaller number of considerate drivers. The former are generally a danger to all road users too.
thax1 wrote:
I’m in Reading too. My Strava heatmap shows a complete blank in the Surrey direction. I never go there now.
Not defending Surrey drivers
Not defending Surrey drivers by any means but in the summer I caught the Elizabeth Line out to Reading and rode 112 km back home to London and experienced some of the most shocking aggressive wankpanzer close passing I’ve experienced anywhere – including Surrey – before I got back within the M25.
By the way, sorry to be “that guy” and the woman’s clearly a dreadful individual but calling women with whom you don’t agree trollops – not cool.
Ooh, I just googled the
Ooh, I just googled the definition of trollop!
OK Rendel – she’s a complete cock.
thax1 wrote:
With you on that, 100%.
She must be anti an awful lot
She must be anti an awful lot of drivers here too then.
Does that continue “in their
Does that continue “in their large SUVs on their way to lap Richmond Park before driving home again”? If so I might be in agreement 🙂
Otherwise depressingly full bingo card of anti-cyclist bs and Tory spin.
outrage in the shires
outrage in the shires
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wlk45lvn7o
Don’t worry, at least in
Don’t worry, at least in Scotland the opposite is true far more of the time. Latest budget – not only are we a long way away from where we were aiming back under the Bute House agreement, monies have been cut, and apparently in the small print stuff to do with buses is now being counted as “sustainable travel” so now it’s “buses vs. cyclists – who will win?”
(I think we should be spending a lot more on re-animating public transport – but that cash should not be coming at the expense of active travel. If only there was some other – vast – travel budget we could tap into…? Of course, couldn’t be from general motoring monies because those folks “pay road tax” and “fuel tax” and “pay for the roads” don’tchknow?)
Why get worked up about the
Why get worked up about the BBC sports programme? Not sure that many people watch it and no sportsman or woman lists winning a category as a career achievement.
Wiggo certainly didn’t
Wiggo certainly didn’t
Surreyrider wrote:
Probably not, but peversely perhaps many care deeply about not winning.
“Does anyone at the BBC watch
“Does anyone at the BBC watch cycling?”
No. I’m not sure that they even know it exists. For the 9,785th time, the BBC is institutionally anti-cyclist.
The connection on SPOTY is
The connection on SPOTY is more likely it’s limited to sports BBC have the rights to show clips of and not pay much extra for. Else I’m sure Max 4 time world champion Verstappen would be in the list somewhere.
Equally on the cycling side Cat Ferguson double world champion this year, somehow lost out to a skateboarder, who finished 3rd and someone who plays a pub game for a living in the young sports personality of the year award shortlist.
In other news, and a propos
In other news, and a propos of nothing in particular … I belive James Martin is in pole position to replace Gregg Wallace on Masterchef. Will the denizens of the road.cc comments section be writing to the BBC to complain that they will be triggered by flashbacks of Tesla-based near misses every time they see him on screen?
Obv the BBC wouldn’t care, because cyclists aren’t a protected species in their eyes, but could be entertaining nonetheless …
panda wrote:
As I looked it up due to not remembering the incident (not familiar with James Martin either), here’s a link: https://road.cc/content/news/8253-james-martin-chokes-under-pressure-and-apologises-cycling-world
Well, he’s another bloke who
Well, he’s another bloke who has spent his money on fancy cars. However as he is on ITV he may be on more money than the Beeb can afford? I thought the BBC weren’t going to have big star presenters any more, as their salaries look excessive and too many of them end up as complete liabilities.
A surprising amount of TV
A surprising amount of TV content is produced by third party production companies – Masterchef is made by Endemol and Banijay (I think) so the people on screen don’t directly appear on the BBC/ITV payroll and don’t feature in the league table of top earners and if they negotiate well can earn a fortune from syndication.
Bigger ain’t always better,
Bigger ain’t always better, wh Tom ? – as for the BBC they’re just a bunch of pedo hiding sado’s (allegedly), from what I can tell!
Organisations that gang up
Organisations that gang up with police to fine cyclists or preach are the worst type of self satisfied Hubbards.
I’ll assume awash with fluro vests, trouser clips and cycling kit worn under jumpers.
Just found this.
Just found this.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2024-11-29.17051.h&s=cycling#g17051.r0
81%, 1.5m, I find that hard to believe.
Education may be happening but the problem is that the law was not changed at all, which no one seems to mention, and to me is the main cause of problems on our roads when it comes to vulnerable road users. I’m sure the upcoming causing death or serious injury by careless or dangerous cycling will help though.
81%, 1.5m, I find that hard
81%, 1.5m, I find that hard to believe
These campaigns have achieved nothing beyond the driver claiming ‘I gave you 1.5m’, while plainly passing at less than 50cms. That’s exactly what this pillock said, (there are temporary traffic lights just over the crest of the hill) before he shouted he would “fucking flatten” me and “you will get knocked off”. All on video, no swearing from me and no mention by the police of prosecuting for a public order offence as the outraged police do when a cyclist swears on a close pass- they’re so outraged that ‘we can’t do anything about the close pass’
I wouldn’t object to this
I wouldn’t object to this being in law but as wtjs regularly reminds us if that happens drivers will likely go right on ignoring it.
And doubtless many police forces would add this to the list of offences they’re not looking for and don’t have time to police- even when someone else does the investigating for then!
I’m sure the upcoming
I’m sure the upcoming causing death or serious injury by careless or dangerous cycling will help though
You’re right! End the cyclist tyranny, careering round on the roads at over 50 mph, trapping law-abiding motorists in their homes, knocking over countless wheelchair users, causing traffic jams and pollution. This law should solve most of the road traffic problems of the day
Bungle_52 wrote:
Obviously self-reported observance is going to be higher than reality, because psychological biases inhibit people’s recognition of their own failings (plus many just aren’t very good at judging distance), but in my experience it’s probably not very inflated. The problem is that, even if it were this high, that’s not actually a very good result. It means that every fifth driver is passing far too close. And on top of that, the 1.5m is meant to be a minimum, when passing at lower speeds, so even those who are honestly reporting that they give that much may still be passing too close for comfort.
I think the problem with this
I think the problem with this figure is two-fold.
First – if the question is ‘have you heard of …?’ questions mean people who were vaugely aware, or want to be seen to be aware will answer yes. It’s quite hard to frame the question in a way that doesn’t give away the answer, or at least get people scratching their head to remember that thing on Facebook that got everyone angry. Do they remember when they encounter a cyclist in the wild?
Second – many discussions designed to educate or remind drivers of their responsibility turn into arguments about how it’s pointless or dangerous or some other justification for why people who have just read about it won’t even be trying to do so.
And you can add in the people who begrudgingly attempt 1.5m, but aren’t sure what that looks like and get it wrong. I’d hope everyone trying for 1.5m would manage at least 1m,
The education on 1.5m needs to explain why it’s important, why it’s OK for cyclists to filter, and why cyclists ‘driving in the middle of the road’ need to avoid the door zone, gutters and pot-holes. If the only safe way to overtake is for the car to cross the white line, then they have to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic and they might as well do it properly.
I guess it doesn’t matter
I guess it doesn’t matter whether the figures are accurate or not, the problem is that the department have got the stats to say that the job is done so there is no problem and no further action is needed. NFA, where have I seen that before?
As you say, the highway code should have said “only pass cyclists on the other side of the road” and it should have been backed up in law.
The government’s job says no
The government’s job says no further action is needed to communicate the Highway Code changes, which they must know is incorrect. I will write to my MP about it.
Well said. “Only pass cyclists on the other side of the road” would have been much easier for drivers to understand and remember.
The Highway Code doesn’t help by requiring drivers to remember two minimum distances (1.5m and 2.0m), depending on whether the car is below or above 30mph. In reality, how many drivers are likely to remember that?
Another_MAMIL wrote:
I doubt that further communication would achieve anything as a lot of drivers would just scoff and complain about cyclists knocking over wheelchairs or some rubbish.
What’s needed is enforcement, even if that’s just a case of police stopping offenders and educating them initially, but then progressing to issuing fines/points/bans.
hawkinspeter wrote:
I’d argue that both education and enforcement are essential. Not every driver wants to cause problems for cyclists—some simply don’t know any better, and education can help them.
Moreover, it’s reasonable and sensible to educate these drivers. I was once involved with educating fleet drivers for a large company, including organising the assessment of driving skills. Virtually everyone with unacceptably low driving skills was keen to take the advanced driving course offered to them. They wanted the education. In general, few people want to cause crashes.
Others, an unpleasant but tiny minority, don’t care about cyclists or vulnerable road users in general. Here, enforcement is key.
Another_MAMIL wrote:
Moreover, it’s reasonable and sensible to educate these drivers. I was once involved with educating fleet drivers for a large company, including organising the assessment of driving skills. Virtually everyone with unacceptably low driving skills was keen to take the advanced driving course offered to them. They wanted the education. In general, few people want to cause crashes.— Another_MAMIL
Indeed – but with fleet drivers you’ve effectively got a captive audience (and a motivated one most likely).
For “mass motoring” unless we have formal “refreshers” (continuous development or some kind of retests) it’s like putting on a public lecture or bringing out a pamphlet. Not everyone will attend / read. Of those that do some won’t remember later, and fewer will actually incorporate this into their practice. In fact it’s “practice makes habit”. And for most people that is determined by “what everyone else is doing” and “feedback from authorities” (e.g. getting stopped by the law, or hearing lots of stories of same from those close to you).
Our problem is that because “mass motoring” the strategy of “education by police” hits diminishing returns very quickly (takes a LOT of police work to reach a sufficient number of people – and probably a fairly high level has to be maintained) *. Things which we have “fixed” (kinda…) like drink driving and seatbelt use lean pretty heavily on “self interest” and social disapproval too. The former could work here but only when you already have “mass cycling” e.g. you’re likely to close-pass your family, friends, bosses…
* There may be tech or lateral solutions but the obvious one – using dashcam / public reporting – seems to be somewhere between “not too much of this please” and “just try to make us” (see Police Scotland).
Another_MAMIL wrote:
It’s not so much that I disagree about education as I’m a big fan of education in general. What I was thinking was that government sponsored education tends to be really awful and there’s the problem of a lot of drivers not being receptive to it. I can just imagine any government education somehow circling round to warning cyclists about not being overtaken by buses or something.
I can just imagine any
I can just imagine any government education somehow circling round to warning cyclists about not being overtaken by buses
Yes!- despite the clear signs on the bus warning cyclists, they persist in being overtaken like this
NB This is a different overtake by a Stagecoach 42 bus from the one I have posted recently
https://upride.cc/incident/px12dnd_stagecoach42_closepass/
This shows how cyclists
This shows how cyclists persist in this folly, despite the diligence of Stagecoach in applying a variety of posters on 42 buses warning them against it
https://upride.cc/incident/px12dne_stagecoach42bus_closepass/
Completely agree, but I
Completely agree, but I assume “politics” is why it’s not law (that takes time and effort – language tweaks especially for “recommendations” are *much* easier to do).
I don’t know why it was not in as a recommendation though – IIRC several lobby groups asked for it. (FWIW a few people have blogged about the ins and outs of this but can’t find these just now).
As with HP’s comment currently it’s moot because – like plenty of things which have long been offenses – these are still practiced a) by somewhere from a substantial minority to a majority of drivers and b) attract little to no interest by police. So speeding, driving and parking in cycle facilities *, crossing solid white lines etc. Some of these are even against drivers’ own interests (overtaking going into blind corners). Obviously some of these things are still governed by “human nature” factors – must get ahead!
* Due to poor rule-making (deliberate?) in fact this is quite often entirely legal…
Just discovered I have to pay
Just discovered I have to pay road tax next year. Bang goes my smug reply to ‘cyclists don’t pay road tax’ followed by a photo of DVLA demand for £0.
£20 seems pointless – not even going to cover admin.
*Road tax was abolished in 1937.
Umm…
Umm…
Hirsute wrote:
If you could put the lock a bit lower so it goes around both vertical bits of the stand, then it should be secure. It looks like the wooden bit is designed to slide so that you can use the “Y” section to put through the frame, but then there would have to be a mechanism to stop the wooden bit from sliding.
As it looks, you can slide
As it looks, you can slide the block out and walk off with the bike. Then remove the lock at your leisure.
Seems reasonable – who’s
Seems reasonable – who’s going equipped with woodworking tools nowadays?
Presumably the other spoiler is that the access cover just lifts up and out? (I guess it was used “because it was there” and easier to install than in the asphalt but it seems a strange place to put a stand. Presumably someone needs access there occasionally?)
Doesn’t seem anything to stop
Doesn’t seem anything to stop you picking it all up and walking off !
Hirsute wrote:
Exactly! With the added bonus of the manhole cover as scrap.
That’s very weird.
That’s very weird.
Another one to add to the list of “we’re trying to make it aesthetically appealing and sod the functionality!”.
Is there any indication that
Is there any indication that it’s actually intended for bike parking, though, as opposed to just some random thing that someone decided to lock a bike to?
Good point – could be
Good point – could be something from art, or a computer game?