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"Hi-vis distracts from the real issues on our roads," says makers of bike camera warning signs; "Tedious" number plate debate follows former Met chief's comments; Friday Facebook Fancy; A front light with a difference; Mythbusting + more on the live blog

Welcome to the Friday live blog everybody! Dan Alexander will be taking you through to the weekend with everything you need to know (and plenty you don't) from the world of cycling...
24 November 2023, 15:14
"Hi-vis distracts from the real issues on our roads," says makers of bike camera warning signs

You may already be familiar with the work of PassPixi, the makers of the magnetic bike camera warning signs which aim to dissuade anyone tempted to do something dangerous around the wearer. After all, the looming stick of potential penalty points and a fine through the post is almost certainly more effective than whatever the carrot I'm now struggling to identify is in this analogy.

In fact, through our Near Miss of the Day series we've covered this 'in the wild'...

> Near Miss of the Day 538: Close pass driver hangs back when they realise they are being filmed

In that case our Warwickshire reader had one of the patches displayed, the front and rear camera footage showing a motorist about to perform a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre before, presumably spotting the PassPixi logo, thinking better of it and holding back until it was safer to pass.

Anyway, rambling context done, onto this...

It would be interesting to see the respective treatment this rider got with and without the little camera sign. The hi-vis question always pops up again at this time of year, the dark nights and shortening afternoons prompting (often admittedly well-meaning) road safety groups, local authorities or police forces to urge using hi-vis clothing as a cyclist. Don't worry pedestrians, you've not been forgotten...

> Police ask pedestrians to wear hi-vis following spate of road deaths in Scotland

Other police forces, notably the Surrey Roads Policing Unit's famous social media account, prefer to point out the main causes of road danger should be prioritised, not forcing personal protective equipment on more vulnerable road users...

A point made in PassPixi's original post, where they say it "distracts from the real issues on the road". To many a reply disagreeing, they added to the discussion with this video this morning...

A familiar tale for any of us (regardless of what you're wearing)...

Check out PassPixi here...

24 November 2023, 17:02
"Would they like the shirt off my back as well?" Bike shop owners fume as Cycle to Work scheme stops retailers charging additional fees
24 November 2023, 17:02
24 November 2023, 16:35
Tom Pidcock checks out Tour de France gravel stage
 

What do we have here?

Tom Pidcock Tour de France gravel stage (Strava/Laurens De Plus)

 Laurens De Plus and Tom Pidcock took a trip to Troyes to recon the route for next year's ninth stage of the Tour de France, a 14-gravel sector lumpy ride through the vineyards. Maybe not quite as toasty in November, but at least you're not a four-time Tour de France winner demoted to role of Geraint Thomas' mechanic.

24 November 2023, 16:23
Comment of the day
Live blog comment 24/11/2023

For the offending review...

> Gorewear Gore-Tex Paclite Pants Men's

In our defence that's just the name of the product. Laurence quite rightly points out they easily go over his trousers. Thank you hutchdaddy for giving us all an image to try to forget...

24 November 2023, 14:39
Wait, it's Black Friday? Nobody told me...
24 November 2023, 14:09
School bike racks destroyed by speeding, out-of-control motorist, as pupils and teachers stage protest demanding introduction of 20mph limit
24 November 2023, 12:35
The return of Jo's Friday Facebook Fancy... just pray you don't actually have to ride this one...
24 November 2023, 10:57
Five great British bike brands that are pushing the boundaries of cycling tech
24 November 2023, 10:32
A last-minute contender for best cycling light of 2023?
24 November 2023, 10:22
Cycling mythbusting: nobody cycles in winter when it's wet and cold

Sorry, excuse my sniggering, seeing Greg post another video's reminded me of 'Tug-gate'. Never a bad day to share that again...

> Cyclist catches driver watching adult film and 'spanking the monkey' in heavy London traffic

24 November 2023, 10:06
Team Visma | Lease a Bike join the pantheon of whacky pro cycling team names

Sometimes when asked by a friend or family member about how pro cycling works, you'll end up explaining how teams carry the name of whoever is paying the bills but, since cycling's still relatively small business in the wider sporting picture, we end up with the world's best competing as a moving billboard for caffeine shampoo or Belgian laminate flooring. 

Add another chapter to that great book...

The all-conquering and relentless winners, Jonas Vingegaard, Wout van Aert, Marianne Vos and Co. part of the terrifying and ruthless victory-collecting machine that is... *checks notes*... Team Visma | Lease a Bike...

Out goes the supermarket, in comes the bike hire provider. Crack out the bad jokes when one of their stars ends up grabbing a neutral service bike in a moment of crisis...

In all seriousness here are the comments from Lease a Bike's managing director Ward Matser on the deal... "Lease a Bike's mission is to inspire people to go biking. For sports, for commuting and in everyday life. What better way to spread this message than through an extremely inspiring cycling team? We want to encourage people to live healthier and more sustainable lives and see Team Visma | Lease a Bike as a way to contribute to this.

"We are already successful in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Austria and we are expanding to other countries in Europe and to the USA. We believe in innovation, developing talent and doing things a little better every day. A vision we share with the cycling team."

No greenwashing accusations today... (and by pro cycling's not so glittering standards, that'll do for me)...

24 November 2023, 08:52
"How about policing the roads properly?": Cyclists shut down former Met Police chief's "tedious" bicycle number plate proposal

The dust is just starting to settle on the story from last night that the House of Lords heard a suggestion to tackle apparently "dangerous" and "entirely unaccountable" cycling by putting number plates on bicycles. And while I'm sure there's plenty said in the Lords that can be ignored, put away at the back of the mind with all the other ramblings of politicians of a certain ilk, it is always going to be slightly more concerning/infuriating/facepalmingly depressing coming from the man who was in charge of the Metropolitan Police for five years...

 Cycling lawyer Rory McCarron, who works for Leigh Day and assisted British Cycling in its recent call for an end to "hazardous leniency" in sentencing of drivers who kill or injure cyclists, picked apart Lord Hogan-Howe's comments, in particular the bit about how "on occasion they [cyclists] have terribly injured people and on some occasions killed them".

"Yes," he replied. "And these very few cyclists have been identified and held accountable? Ermir Loka, Charlie Alliston etc. How many unaccountable cyclists are killing/seriously injuring people? Not many. He has also failed to outline what he considers dangerous cycling by giving an example. I'm guessing he woke up this morning and felt dangerous."

Another said it was "classic looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist", Andrew Buss adding: "Just wait until he hears about the huge number of KSIs [killed and seriously injured] due to car drivers. If only they had a system of registration and licensing. Oh…"

Over on Facebook, road.cc reader Stephen Ward commented: "Ignoring how well it works for cars and other vehicles I can't help but think the Met have bigger issues to deal with than getting inundated with reports of cyclists riding two abreast or ignoring cycle lanes." 

eburtthebike: "[Quoting Hagen-Howe]...'On occasion they have terribly injured people, and on some occasions killed them.'

"When? How often? How many compared to cars? How many people are killed by drivers who are not arrested or punished or who are let off with such pathetic excuses as 'the sun was in my eyes' or 'I thought I hit a sack of potatoes'? No, let's attack an out group whose transgressions are so minor that they barely register."

Here in the road.cc website comments section, some of our standards are clearly a tad lower...

Clem Fandango: "At least he acknowledged that cyclists are actually people. Baby steps fellow evil lobby members, baby steps."

Every cloud...

Dan is the road.cc news editor and has spent the past four years writing stories and features, as well as (hopefully) keeping you entertained on the live blog. Having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for the Non-League Paper, Dan joined road.cc in 2020. Come the weekend you'll find him labouring up a hill, probably with a mouth full of jelly babies, or making a bonk-induced trip to a south of England petrol station... in search of more jelly babies.

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66 comments

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ktache | 7 months ago
1 like

Did anyone else see BBC4's programme last night on Mark Beaumont's ride down the spine of America? Three partner, may have been on before, from BBC Scotland.

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brooksby replied to ktache | 7 months ago
1 like

Yeah: watched that (I think I read the book, some years ago - I note that the tv programme was dated 2010). The scene where he showed how badly his marathons had (edited) worn down 

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Rik Mayals unde... | 7 months ago
0 likes

Are they the late, great and sadly missed Rik Mayals underpants?

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Hirsute | 7 months ago
2 likes

How not to pass horses on the road

https://twitter.com/passwideandslow/status/1727438439321387465

still for those not on twatterX

 

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Hirsute | 7 months ago
2 likes

"I'll set my dog on you"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkb5kGbV7Zg

Said around 3:40 but the build up is interesting. Earlier beeps the cyclist at a red light...

for not running the red light...

I don't think your dog will agree much with my Dlock (which would be self defence that a reasonable person would undertake).

 

* vehicle is also unregistered  - how ???

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Hirsute | 7 months ago
6 likes

Have had to go into the office regularly for the first time since lockdown. Also coincidences with darkness going home. Also the first time I have had Garmin radar when commuting home.

The number of speeding drivers in a 30 is quite alarming. So for all the bullshit about wear hi Viz and fluro needs to be - drivers stick to the speed limit because you are the ones in charge of 1.8 T of metal. You are more likely to produce a KSI from speeding than sticking to the limit.

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Oldfatgit replied to Hirsute | 7 months ago
7 likes

I had a Audi overtake me around 200m from a roundabout at 0615 Wednesday morning.
He was braking hard for the roundabout.
My garmin had him at approach speed of 64mph in a 30mph zone.

My Garmin picked up a 70mph approach from the rear on Thursday night ... that one turned out to be a train 😄

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hutchdaddy | 7 months ago
7 likes

Very disappointed by the latest clothing review, creeping loss of good British values and slipping down a dangerous slope of Americanisms.

https://road.cc/content/review/gorewear-gore-tex-paclite-pants-mens-305279

As any fool knows they are trousers.

These are pants

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hawkinspeter replied to hutchdaddy | 7 months ago
3 likes

hutchdaddy wrote:

These are pants

You do realise that you don't have to wait for Xmas to get some new underpants, don't you?

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hutchdaddy replied to hawkinspeter | 7 months ago
2 likes

I only wear black, so it doesn't show up any, ahem, incidents.

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Surreyrider replied to hutchdaddy | 7 months ago
1 like

Hey give me back my pants thief!!

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OnYerBike replied to hutchdaddy | 7 months ago
0 likes

I don't suppose you actually read the review?

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squired | 7 months ago
10 likes

I'm not gifted with height, so my frame size is typically around 50cm.  Include some mudguards and lights in the winter on my road bike...  where exactly would a number plate go?

The fact is that the police just don't want to do their job.  In the summer I was hit by a guy on an e-scooter.  I've had two shoulder surgeries since and am likely not back on the bike until January.  The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.  When my MP got involved they just said in a letter to him that it is the government's fault because they allow e-scooters to be sold by shops.  They even commented how they did an "education campaign" locally, stopping e-scooter riders, but it achieved nothing (what a surprise).  How about just stopping anyone riding one and confiscating them.  That will stop it pretty fast.  

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the little onion replied to squired | 7 months ago
9 likes

It is a 'brain fart' of an idea that won't survive the first contact with reality, so I don't think it is going to happen.

 

What it does reveal is a level of prejudice amongst police and lawmakers, that they would blurt this out without a clear understanding of how it might work in practice (i.e. where the plates go, how children's bikes get registered) nor in terms of criminology (how it might deter 'dangerous' cycling) or the proportionality or public interest of this. To me, the danger is not around whether or not we get number plates on bikes, but more what kinds of other things happen as a result of this prejudice.

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Daveyraveygravey replied to the little onion | 7 months ago
0 likes

the little onion wrote:

What it does reveal is a level of prejudice amongst police and lawmakers, that they would blurt this out without a clear understanding of how it might work in practice (i.e. where the plates go, how children's bikes get registered) nor in terms of criminology (how it might deter 'dangerous' cycling) or the proportionality or public interest of this.

What you're saying is the police and lawmakers think exactly the same as the majority of the non-cycling Great British public...

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hawkinspeter replied to squired | 7 months ago
13 likes

squired wrote:

I'm not gifted with height, so my frame size is typically around 50cm.  Include some mudguards and lights in the winter on my road bike...  where exactly would a number plate go?

The fact is that the police just don't want to do their job.  In the summer I was hit by a guy on an e-scooter.  I've had two shoulder surgeries since and am likely not back on the bike until January.  The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.  When my MP got involved they just said in a letter to him that it is the government's fault because they allow e-scooters to be sold by shops.  They even commented how they did an "education campaign" locally, stopping e-scooter riders, but it achieved nothing (what a surprise).  How about just stopping anyone riding one and confiscating them.  That will stop it pretty fast.  

Thanks, that's handy to know.

So, if you want to commit a crime, like punch a copper or rob a bank, you can just do it using e-scooters and the police are powerless to do anything.

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wtjs replied to hawkinspeter | 7 months ago
12 likes

So, if you want to commit a crime, like punch a copper or rob a bank, you can just do it using e-scooters and the police are powerless to do anything

No, No, No! What renders them powerless is if the offender fails to provide video evidence of him offending to confirm the video taken by the victim or someone else, or if he can't remember the incident. It's some catch, that Police Catch 22!

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OnYerBike replied to squired | 7 months ago
10 likes

squired wrote:

[...] The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.  [...]

We've had some pretty convoluted examples of Police Logic before (as wtjs will attest) but surely this must take the biscuit - the Police can't do anything because he was doing something illegal?

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wtjs replied to OnYerBike | 7 months ago
3 likes

We've had some pretty convoluted examples of Police Logic before (as wtjs will attest) but surely this must take the biscuit - the Police can't do anything because he was doing something illegal?

These ridiculous dodges seem to be creeping out into other aspects of modern life. I have an 82 year old friend who had several uPVC windows installed. 2 of the locks failed, but the installer has failed for months to turn up to perform the simple job of replacing the locks. The insurer/ industry regulating body told him that they couldn't do anything because the window installer is still in business!

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Steve K replied to squired | 7 months ago
10 likes

squired wrote:

The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.  

By that logic, they can't do anything about shootings.

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hawkinspeter replied to Steve K | 7 months ago
9 likes

Steve K wrote:

squired wrote:

The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.  

By that logic, they can't do anything about shootings.

Or stabbings, unless it's by a chef using one of their work knives.

I think I'm going to buy fake brand-name trainers and then I'll be able to get away with any crime that I want to commit.

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chrisonabike replied to hawkinspeter | 7 months ago
4 likes

Just do it from your cycle there at night - as long as you're without pedal reflectors you're clearly already illegal.  Sorry mate, the bike wasn't legal on the road anyway so...

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wycombewheeler replied to hawkinspeter | 7 months ago
0 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

Steve K wrote:

squired wrote:

The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.  

By that logic, they can't do anything about shootings.

Or stabbings, unless it's by a chef using one of their work knives.

I think I'm going to buy fake brand-name trainers and then I'll be able to get away with any crime that I want to commit.

Even then it would have to happen in the kitchem, because carrying knives around just because you happen to be a chef isn't a defence, agaisnt offensive weapons charges.

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hawkinspeter replied to wycombewheeler | 7 months ago
1 like

wycombewheeler wrote:

Even then it would have to happen in the kitchem, because carrying knives around just because you happen to be a chef isn't a defence, agaisnt offensive weapons charges.

I disagree as it's illegal to carry most knives or any weapons in public without a 'good reason' and a chef carrying their knives with them on the way to or from their work is a 'good reason'. They would typically be carried in a roll and not just loose in their pocket, so they wouldn't be mistaken for stabby knives. It's quite common for chefs to be incredibly possessive of their knives and to not allow anyone else to touch them or use them so it's not unusual for them to not leave their personal knives in the kitchen.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

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chrisonabike replied to hawkinspeter | 7 months ago
1 like

Or swords... this was down your way?

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hawkinspeter replied to chrisonabike | 7 months ago
1 like

chrisonatrike wrote:

Or swords... this was down your way?

Quite likely - there's a Sikh temple just near my road. In the 'good reasons' for carrying bladed weapons, they include religious reasons as Sikhs are supposed to carry a kirpan knife. National costumes are also an exemption.

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Rendel Harris replied to hawkinspeter | 7 months ago
1 like

hawkinspeter wrote:

 

I disagree as it's illegal to carry most knives or any weapons in public without a 'good reason' and a chef carrying their knives with them on the way to or from their work is a 'good reason'.

You're sort of right and sort of wrong, yes a chef or a carpenter etc is legally allowed to carry their knives and other bladed tools to and from the workplace, but the second it's taken out of its case/tool roll/pocket to be used in a threatening manner it automatically transforms into being an offensive weapon and the carrier/wielder is subject to exactly the same laws as someone who was carrying it for offensive purposes from the outset.

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hawkinspeter replied to Rendel Harris | 7 months ago
0 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

You're sort of right and sort of wrong, yes a chef or a carpenter etc is legally allowed to carry their knives and other bladed tools to and from the workplace, but the second it's taken out of its case/tool roll/pocket to be used in a threatening manner it automatically transforms into being an offensive weapon and the carrier/wielder is subject to exactly the same laws as someone who was carrying it for offensive purposes from the outset.

Well, yes. If you take a work tool and start using it in a threatening manner then it will automatically be treated as an offensive weapon, whether it's a knife, a hammer or a screwdriver. A more grey area would be if a chef was attacked and was somehow able to open up their knife roll, select the relevant knife and then defend themselves with it - although the chef had no intention of using it that way and had good reason to be carrying it, would that be considered to be carrying an offensive weapon?

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wycombewheeler replied to hawkinspeter | 7 months ago
0 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

I disagree as it's illegal to carry most knives or any weapons in public without a 'good reason' and a chef carrying their knives with them on the way to or from their work is a 'good reason'.

Is it normal for chefs to carry their own knives home at the end of every service and bring them back again tomorrow? seems uneccesary to me.

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hawkinspeter replied to wycombewheeler | 7 months ago
0 likes

wycombewheeler wrote:

Is it normal for chefs to carry their own knives home at the end of every service and bring them back again tomorrow? seems uneccesary to me.

It depends on the kitchen environment and nature of employment. If it's a stable job with known, trusted chefs then a chef could leave their knives there and know that no-one's going to start chopping bones with them. If it's a high-turnover kitchen then you wouldn't want to leave very expensive knives lying around, especially if there's a chance that the place could close down or you get made redundant.

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