Councillor admits "large wagons" keep hitting cycle lane wands... then claims painted segregation works "extremely well"; Baffled local questions where Clean Air Zone will go "when the wind blows"?; Lefevere's €100m Remco price tag + more on the live blog

Oldfatgit wrote:

At £50 a pop, I wonder how many independent hauliers will accept loads in to the Zone.. which will lead to small business going under. It will also be an additional tax on anyone that lives in the Zone as it will get added on to the delivery charge ... It's likely to have far reaching unintended consequences. When I was driving for a living, I'd refuse to take the Seven Bridge / Dartford (either way) / Forth Road / Skye because the toll was eye-watering for a C+E. And that toll came out of my pocket and I then had to claim it back... and wait a month to get it back. At £50 a pop, I'd certainly refuse to take a load in the Zone if I had to pay and claim back.

It would also create opportunities for someone to set up cargo-bike deliveries in those zones, so it seems like a good (dis)incentive to me.

Other ways of dealing with it is to have collection points outside of the Zone (or inside the Dirty Air Zone) and let residents go and collect their parcels themselves although the danger is that it could increase car journeys if the residents can use them without getting fined.

It's not just about 'parcels' though, is it.

Yes, last mile delivery via cargo bike is a good and viable option ... but there needs to be a hub close enough to that point for it to *be* an option.
Every single retailer would need their own hub - unless you think AO is going to share with Currys, DFS with Sofology etc.
Yes ... I have seen the photos of sofa being delivered by a cargo bike - but that's 1 sofa.

I'm risking running in to whataboutifery here, and I don't want to do that.

As sad as it is, not everything can be done by a cargo bike and current logistical infrastructure is not capable of supporting hubs to allow decants on to small vehicles ... but even decants have their own failings.
For every 45ft artic, you would need roughly 7.5 tonners or 14 standard vans and that's no way better than 1 waggon.

Oldfatgit wrote:

It's not just about 'parcels' though, is it. Yes, last mile delivery via cargo bike is a good and viable option ... but there needs to be a hub close enough to that point for it to *be* an option. Every single retailer would need their own hub - unless you think AO is going to share with Currys, DFS with Sofology etc. Yes ... I have seen the photos of sofa being delivered by a cargo bike - but that's 1 sofa. I'm risking running in to whataboutifery here, and I don't want to do that. As sad as it is, not everything can be done by a cargo bike and current logistical infrastructure is not capable of supporting hubs to allow decants on to small vehicles ... but even decants have their own failings. For every 45ft artic, you would need roughly 7.5 tonners or 14 standard vans and that's no way better than 1 waggon.

I don't see why there can't be a shared hub, similar to how there's shared logistics/delivery companies.

Basically, the issue is that we need to make massive changes to how people do things and move around the place, so there is bound to be winners and losers, the same as with any change. Attempting to change things and yet have no-one disadvantaged is a fool's mission.

Personally, I think we've left it far too late and we're at the stage of re-arranging chairs on the Titanic.

"Personally, I think we've left it far too late and we're at the stage of re-arranging chairs on the Titanic."

Absolutey.

The motor vehicle (in all its forms) has been absolute king for decades, along with its conspiritors  the Petro-Chemical industry.
People see alternative transport as a threat to their way of living; they cannot comprehend that the car is probably the largest regular outgoing you have (although energy bills might have knocked that back now). 
We as a society have become so brainwashed that the very idea of not being able to drive, or not having a car, or even choosing to walk to the shops is *odd*.

Reading it again they are suggesting that local companies already have compliant vehicles and that they are trying to stop HGVs using the city as a transit route / rat run (which is fair enough). What they don't say is how they expect legitimate drops by non local (nationwide) companies to be made? A hub would be obvious but would still have to cost more.

I was a tramper; I would start on a Monday morning and be home Friday night / Saturday morning.
I had no control over where I was sent to load / unload.
What I can say is you did everything you could to keep out of urban areas.
I know we always say that truck drivers should spend time on a bike ... well we should spend time driving trucks - big feckers too.
Urban areas are a nightmare in an artic, and only slight less of a nightmare in a rigid with rear wheel steer.
Hubs are great, but you have cost issues, space issues, increased traffic issues.
The whole out-of-town shopping / retail park was supposed to reduce the amount of large trucks entering urban areas ... but then, we the consumer decided that we wanted smaller versions in our towns and cities as well ... so the trucks have to keep coming back.

We as a society have to decide what we want ... do we still want a high street, do we want convenience stores so we can nip and get our pint of milk ... if so how are we going to get the goods there?

HarrogateSpa wrote:

Excluding private cars from the Clear Air Zone in Bradford reduces its effectiveness.

How about a dome over it to literally exclude private cars from the Clean Air Zone?

They tend to be missnamed, less a clean air zone, more a pollution tax zone.

And yes, polluting private cars should pay.

Ah didn't see that - great minds thinking alike again!

Rendel Harris wrote:

Ah didn't see that - great minds thinking alike again!

And fools seldom differ.

 Cheek!

More like this?

But not like this?