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hawkinspeter wrote:

I think Mr Hazeldean has forgotten an important bit of advice - if you're heading towards pedestrians in the road, slow down and be prepared to stop even if you believe that you have priority.

Yup, peter, because the motorists do that all the time.  They definitely don't just sound their horn and carry on regardless...

I've never seen a motorist just ploughing into a pedestrian crossing the road - the motorist typically uses their horn and screeches to a halt and then (rightfully) shouts at the pedestrians getting in their way. As I remember, Mr Hazeldean didn't reduce his speed and just relied on the pedestrians not being dumb enough to step into his path after he used his horn.

I've never seen either but tbh, the KSI of peds by motorists gives a bit of clue here as to the behaviour of the average "in a rush" motorist...

Motorists only kill 9 pedestrians every week.

To me, that says there is quite a bit of ploughing on.

hawkinspeter wrote:

I've never seen a motorist just ploughing into a pedestrian crossing the road - the motorist typically uses their horn and screeches to a halt and then (rightfully) shouts at the pedestrians getting in their way. As I remember, Mr Hazeldean didn't reduce his speed and just relied on the pedestrians not being dumb enough to step into his path after he used his horn.

No, neither have I.

But I have seen and experienced plenty of motorists who will use their horn and who will not slow down until the Last Possible Nanosecond before they run down someone crossing.

Or who think that the very moment the traffic lights change is when they can start moving regardless of whether pedestrians are still crossing.

I was once crossing at a pelican crossing, when cars had stopped all across the crossing (because they didn't wait behind the white line until they could get all the way across and then got caught when the lights changed - crossing left to right here:  https://goo.gl/maps/28eBmhT6rMh8aDDq7), and had a car actually start moving and run up into/against my leg because the cars ahead of him had started moving and I should have got out of his way... 

I certainly don't want to defend the toxic drivers that infest our roads, but I also don't want to defend cyclists who attempt to do similar things. Luckily, (or not for Mr Hazeldean) cyclists will cause less damage and will tend to suffer some pain themselves which acts as a good deterrent, so it's not nearly as big a problem.

I'm with you on the annoyance of cars just blocking pedestrian crossings  - I think it's just lack of awareness and stupidity on their part.

Blocking pedestrian crossings is an offence, liable for a 3 point and £60 fine, I believe.

There is no excuse for it, for me a pedestrian crossing is a sacred thing.

ktache wrote:

Blocking pedestrian crossings is an offence, liable for a 3 point and £60 fine, I believe.

There is no excuse for it, for me a pedestrian crossing is a sacred thing.

Funny you should say that.  Got threatened by a driver yesterday, as I was on a zebra crossing.  Threatened as in : you don't have priority on zebra crossings, get off or I'll run you down.  And yes: a zebra crossing.  No, I wasn't loitering. 

Shaved head, large black BMW.

Kent Police are now going to have a chat about a public order offence.  Although I'm not holding out hope that he'll ever see the inside of a cell.  

hawkinspeter wrote:

I've never seen a motorist just ploughing into a pedestrian crossing the road - the motorist typically uses their horn and screeches to a halt and then (rightfully) shouts at the pedestrians getting in their way. As I remember, Mr Hazeldean didn't reduce his speed and just relied on the pedestrians not being dumb enough to step into his path after he used his horn.

I was out running with a friend and our dogs last year and we came up to a pedestrian crossing. A bloke in a white van stopped to let us cross. Just as we were about half way over, a VW Passat overtook the van and shot right in front of us. This was in posh Dulwich (down the road from Dulwich College) as it happens. I was astounded, as was my friend. Even the white van driver looked shocked.

Shocked because the white van driver stopped?

brooksby wrote:

Yup, peter, because the motorists do that all the time.  They definitely don't just sound their horn and carry on regardless...

What's that got to do with how we behave? The "but motorists..." response gets really tiring in these discussions about how we as cyclists should behave.

mustgettaller wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Yup, peter, because the motorists do that all the time.  They definitely don't just sound their horn and carry on regardless...

What's that got to do with how we behave? The "but motorists..." response gets really tiring in these discussions about how we as cyclists should behave.

I was just pointing out that cyclists end up in court or whatever, whereas the same behaviour from motorists is (often) taken as "just one of those things" and the squashed pedestrian is just written off as if they've been struck by lightning (except in certain very specific circumstances).

I wasn't intending it as "why should we have to behave well when motorists don't".

Jeez. This is a dumb comment. 

fenix wrote:

Jeez. This is a dumb comment. 

Hi, fenix: you didn't quote, so I don't know which one of my comments was particularly stupid

Indeed. The details about litigation after the fact and the rules around counter suing and whatnot are really shite and he got screwed and lawyers got paid. But hard not to agree with the original rulling of joint liability.

Take care of each other. Even if other people don't.

At least it has now it has explained to me why certain big corporations seem to counter sue the victims of their incompetence. It is to cover in case they can prove their is fault on both sides and not just them. 

hawkinspeter wrote:

I think Mr Hazeldean has forgotten an important bit of advice - if you're heading towards pedestrians in the road, slow down and be prepared to stop even if you believe that you have priority.

Personally, I wish that he'd gone for bankruptcy and not had crowd-funding to ensure that the lawyers got paid.

If you did this in certain parts you'd be moving so slo you'd be better off walking.

The fact that the legal fees came to ~£30k makes you think about the cover limits you select when taking out insurance policies.

Walking speed is still quicker than falling off and lying unconcious for a bit.

Those legal fees were excessively high because he didn't have legal representation and didn't know about a significant loophole with the capping of legal fees. A lawyer will easily prevent you falling into that trap.

I agree with you on being prepared to stop, but I commute through this junction and think "there but for the grace of god go I". This area is packed with pedestrians at peak times, many of whom are walking along (not across) the road because the pavements are packed (how long do you wait for them to clear?) and there is no signalled crossing here. I ride very carefully through here, but no matter how slowly you're going or prepared you are for the eventuality, if someone steps out at the last minute, there's not much you can do. Yes, getting off and pushing is an option. But the bus drivers aren't going to do that, and I can't see a judge having come to the same decision if the ped had walked out in front of a bus here.   

If you're slowing down a bit, then usually that is sufficient.

Taken from https://clinicalnegligencebarrister.wordpress.com/2019/06/24/brushett-v-hazeldean-the-facts/

Quote:

The final witness was Mr H.  He had been cycling over London Bridge and had waited at the lights before it turned to green.  He told the police that he was overtaken by the Defendant after the traffic lights. He said that the Defendant sounded his airhorn at that point and“cycled towards a large number of pedestrians who were still crossing the road……..The cyclist did not slow down and I heard him shout something towards the pedestrians.  I then saw the cyclist’s bike strike a lady on the left side knocking her to the ground…….”

Little point us debating it as we weren't there, but the defendant's own account as reported in the note of judgment is that "he continued freewheeling into the junction.Pedestrians appeared to notice the horn. Once they cleared, he pedalled again and accelerated as it was uphill on the other side of the junction." The judge didn't come to a specific view on whether he slowed down, but didn't seem keen on Mr H's view - "[Hazeldean] gave every impression of being a reasonable road user.  This was difficult to square with the picture presented by Mr H. " 

Yet, Mr Hazeldean included Mr H's statement as part of his defence.

Quote:

The Claimant made an application for summary judgment on the basis that the Defendant’s hearsay notice adopted Mr H’s statement to the police as being the truth.

If you're at all worried, then join Cycling UK or a similar organisation that'll provide 3rd person coverage (some house insurances will also cover this). Also, bear in mind that this case was notable because it is so rare - cycling is actually very safe.

Yes, that is an odd detail; wonder what happened there. At trial he relied only on the other 3 witnesses' statements (not on Mr H, who gave evidence for the claimant).