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“It’s like the aftermath of a Harry Potter battle – broken wands everywhere”: Drivers versus cycle lane ‘protection’; “Scotland leading the way on active travel,” says Cycling UK; Lance v Vino, the rematch; New kit day; Bling bikes + more on the live blog

Happy Friday everyone! Ryan Mallon’s here to count down the hours until the weekend… and maybe share some cycling news and views on the live blog
Fri, Dec 16, 2022 09:27
82
“It’s like the aftermath of a Harry Potter battle – broken wands everywhere”: Drivers versus cycle lane ‘protection’; “Scotland leading the way on active travel,” says Cycling UK; Lance v Vino, the rematch; New kit day; Bling bikes + more on the live blogPark Row cycle lane, Bristol (credit - brooksby)
16 December 2022, 16:49
Sliding into the weekend like Mathieu van der Poel
16 December 2022, 16:46
Hooray! Salford’s cycling roundabout is finally complete!

And it’s even madder than I imagined it would be…

> Magic roundabout or tragic roundabout? New "novelty" cycling roundabout hasn't gone down well 

16 December 2022, 16:54
16 December 2022, 09:20
“It’s like the aftermath of a Harry Potter battle – broken wands everywhere”: Drivers versus cycle lane ‘protection’

It’s Friday, so we’re going to kick things off on the blog this morning by returning to an old favourite – Bristol’s infamous Park Row “protected” cycle lane.

Back in September 2021, road.cc reader and Bristol resident brooksby pointed out that the three-foot high plastic orange cylinders installed by Bristol City Council to protect cyclists on the pop-up bike lane in Park Row were, surprisingly, not quite up to the job.

According to brooksby, the easily detachable cones were being constantly being removed by careless (or destructive) motorists, with some even ending up far from the bike lane they were installed to ‘protect’.

Park Row cycle lane wands burial ground (credit - brooksby)

The Great Plastic Wand Burial Ground (credit: brooksby)

Earlier this year, the council decided to act by replacing the orange cones with more permanent, sturdier looking models.

Well, at least those wands seemed more permanent… Until you witnessed this horror film-like scene of utter wand devastation, featured on the live blog in August:

And now, in the run-up to Christmas, I regret to inform you folks, that the motorists are at it again.

In the comments section of the blog, brooksby shared these harrowing images from yesterday lunchtime:

Broken wands on Park Row cycle lane, Bristol (credit - brooksby)
Broken wands and car on Park Row cycle lane, Bristol (credit - brooksby)
Broken wands on Bristol's Park Row cycle lane (credit - brooksby)

Those poor wands...

“Blimey – it’s like the aftermath of a battle in Harry Potter world – broken wands everywhere,” fellow road.cc reader chrisonatrike wrote.

“I think the problem with the Park Row cycle lane is that they didn’t make it long enough,” brooksby argues.

“There’s enough room before it’s protected for cars to go on there at each end ‘for loading’ and then they ‘accidentally’ knock down a wand so the next time someone parks a bit further, then they knock one down, so people can park a bit further, and so on…

“And as long as they haven’t knowingly knocked one down people seem to think that they can just park there (despite the painted cycle symbols and signage).”

Following the revelation that even the ‘permanent’ cycle lane wands can’t stop drivers parking wherever they like, in October Bristol City Council announced that it will install new, segregated cycle lanes on Park Row, along with upgraded bus stops, to “make it easier to walk and cycle in the area”.

As long as someone tells the drivers first...

16 December 2022, 09:51
Scottish Parliament Bike Stands (copyright Simon MacMichael).jpg
“Scotland leading the way on active travel in the UK,” says Cycling UK: Charity welcomes record sustainable travel funding in Scottish government budget

Scotland is “leading the way on active travel in the UK”, Cycling UK has claimed, after the Scottish government yesterday committed to increasing its funding for ‘active and sustainable travel’ to a record £196.5m in its budget for 2023/24.

That’s a £46.5m increase on the pot previously set aside for cycling and walking, and means that 5.6 percent of the overall transport budget at Holyrood will be spent on active and sustainable travel.

However, it still falls short of the Scottish government’s commitment to spend at least £320m, or 10 percent of the total transport budget, on active travel by 2024/25.

> Cycling UK urges next Scottish Government to commit 10 per cent of transport budget to active travel

The use of the term ‘active and sustainable travel’ in yesterday’s announcement has also proved frustrating for cycling and walking campaigners, who have argued that it obfuscates the amount of money set to be spent on those specific activities compared to previous years.

In his speech to parliament yesterday, SNP Deputy First Minister John Swinney said that “decarbonising transport remains one of the key challenges we face in reaching Net Zero” and that the government would “invest nearly £200 million in active and sustainable travel”.

> Scotland’s active travel minister criticised – for not wearing a helmet while cycling

The news has been welcomed by charity Cycling UK, who have described the Scottish government’s new active travel budget as “a welcome increase in investment at this time of financial pressure”.

“As a low-cost form of transport, cycling can help to ease the impact of the cost-of-living crisis on people’s lives,” says Jim Densham, Cycling UK’s campaigns and policy manager for Scotland.

“We know that investing in cycling is incredibly good value for money, as it brings so many benefits for people’s health, the environment, local economies, and for liveable neighbourhoods.

“It’s good to see Scotland leading the way on active travel in the UK and taking steps towards much bigger spending that has been promised for coming years.

“However, it is frustrating that a change in language makes it difficult to make a precise comparison to the previous budget. We want Government to provide an exact figure for spending on active travel, and to provide a more detailed breakdown of their budgets.”

16 December 2022, 16:25
Friday reaction

So, what’s been going on in the comments section today, I hear you cry? Well, Dave Gorman, I’ll tell you…

First up, there’s been plenty of chat about Bristol’s ‘protected’ cycle lanes. road.cc reader Benji 326 reckons that the carnage on Park Row illustrates that “protecting cycle lanes with a few upright sticks is clearly not enough.

“Take a tip from cities with correct cycling infrastructure, Seattle for example. Raised kerbs between cycle lane and traffic, bright green tarmac to denote lane, with the additional uprights if they’re desperate… Better cycling infrastructure is beneficial for all, leaders need to realise this.”

Meanwhile, ShutTheFrontDawes wrote: “Calling Bristol City Council's approach to protected cycle lanes 'half-assed' would be generous.

“No solid white lines, no red tarmac, no physical protection (and no, these boards don't count. They are designed to fold over at the base if hit – they are literally designed to provide zero protection) and no parking enforcement.”

So, how can we improve on these flimsy – and obviously easily removed – wands? Well, cdamian had a suggestion: “They just need to replace one or two with strong metal ones that look the same as the current ones. Maybe also swap them around every couple of weeks.”

So, as the little onion pointed out, basically installing the motoring equivalent of this:

Onto the Scottish government’s active travel budget now which – though praised by Cycling UK (with a few caveats) – hasn’t gone down quite as well with our readers.

“I'm not knocking the increase in Scottish government’s active travel spend,” says Safety. “However I am disappointed that Cycling UK failed to highlight that Polis Scotland are one of only two forces in the UK that are still refusing to introduce a camera footage portal. Not only that but the proposed budget for discussion on a potential possibility of a trial is now under threat due to cuts elsewhere.

“To my mind this is a no brainer cost effective way to make drivers think twice about their behaviour to all other road users not just cyclists. But the powers that be are hell bent on preventing its introduction. Why?”

Chrisonatrike added: “I was pleased when the notion of allocating a ‘reasonable’ sum of the transport budget for active travel appeared.  This is remarkable for the UK. 

“Let's keep our Alans on though – it's a sensible amount to propose but ‘up to ten percent in two years’ time’ is not saying ‘prioritising’. 

“Especially when – after more than a quarter century of ‘encouragement’ – ‘active travel’ is arguably further from the start line than before.”

16 December 2022, 15:40
Lizzie Deignan with Paris-Roubaix Femmes cobble trophy 2020 (Copyright CorVos, SWpix.com).JPG
Lizzie Deignan says “conservative plan” is to return to racing in May – “so no Roubaix next year”

Just under three months since giving birth, Lizzie Deignan is eyeing up her return to the peloton, telling fans on Instagram that her “conservative plan” at the moment is to resume racing in May.

After winning the inaugural women’s Paris-Roubaix in October 2021, the Trek-Segafredo rider spent the whole of this season on maternity leave, as she expected the arrival of her second child Shea, who was born in late September.

During a Q&A session with fans on Instagram, the former world champion was asked about the prospect of once again teaming up with reigning Paris-Roubaix champion and fellow Trek-Segafredo rider Elisa Longo Borghini – and whether their partnership could be rekindled on the cobbles of northern France next April.

> Lizzie Deignan on the Tour de France Femmes, returning to the top after childbirth, her memorable wins, and much more

However, Deignan is sceptical about her chances of making it to the start line of the ‘Hell of the North’.

Lizzie Deignan Instagram reply

“Conservative plan is to start racing in May, so no Roubaix nest year,” she wrote. “But you never know, April is a few months off”.

When asked how having her second child and preparing to return to elite competition compared to the first time she resumed racing after giving birth to her daughter, Orla, Deignan said: “So far I would say recovery has taken longer this time around. Shea was a much harder baby to carry so did a lot less fitness in pregnancy, and we seem to have been fighting [illness] as a family since he was born!”

16 December 2022, 15:16
16 December 2022, 15:01
Rare sightings on the roads
16 December 2022, 14:28
Alex Porter after team pursuit crash at Tokyo Olympics (Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com)
Australian team pursuiter Alex Porter, who suffered shock crash at Tokyo Olympics after his handlebars snapped, retires from cycling

Alex Porter, the Australian track rider who was the victim of a nasty crash at last year’s Tokyo Olympics after his handlebars snapped during qualifying for the men’s team pursuit, has announced that he is retiring from cycling.

The 26-year-old, who has three world titles and a Commonwealth Games gold medal to his name in the team pursuit, said that stepping away from the sport is “the toughest decision of my life”, while AusCycling have confirmed that he will continue working with the federation as an official ambassador.

2020 Tokyo Olympics broken Australia bike

During the qualifying rounds for the team pursuit in Tokyo, the Aussie men were forced to take to the start line again after Porter’s titanium additive manufacture (3D printed) base bar from Bastion Cycles broke as he rode at the back of the quartet, causing him to smash into the boards of the velodrome.

> Aussie Olympic handlebar failure: inadequate spec and fatigue testing to blame

While Australia recovered to secure bronze in the event, behind winners Italy and silver medallists Denmark, a subsequent investigation into the crash found that it was caused by inadequate design specifications supplied to the manufacturer by the Australian team, as well as a failure to conduct adequate fatigue testing in the lead-up to use in competition.

Following the report, AusCycling apologised to Porter, who suffered a number of injuries in the spill, including friction burns to his face.

Alex Porter injuries (Eurosport)

Announcing his retirement on social media today, the triple world champion said: “This has been the toughest decision of my life, but I have decided to retire from professional cycling.

“After the Tokyo Olympics, it is clear I need to put my health first and this means stepping away from the sport. I am grateful for all the joy it has brought to my life.

“I have an endless amount of people to thank, but I’ll start by acknowledging SASI and AUSCycling for giving me the chance to race my bike across the country, and then all over the world. My family and friends behind the scenes, it wouldn’t have been possible without you all, you have been there for the ups and downs of the sport.

“The Aussie Team Pursuit boys, Kell [O’Brien], Sam [Welsford], Leigh [Howard] and Luke [Plapp]. We have been through a great deal, but to have my last moment in the sport standing arm in arm on the podium with you guys regardless of what step is something I will treasure for the rest of my life.

“Finally, I’d like to thank my coach Tim Decker, your guidance took me from a kid who clip into a bike to an Olympic medallist, and for that I will be forever grateful. Your impact on my growth as a person is impossible to quantify, and I appreciate all of your leadership, guidance and support.

“I’m excited for what the next chapter will bring and one thing I know for sure is I’ll always love riding my bike!”

AusCycling CEO Marne Fechner praised Porter’s contribution to Australian cycling, saying in a statement: “We have the greatest admiration for Alex and his resilience, dedication and record of achievement.

“While we’re disappointed that we won’t see him riding in the national colours, his cycling journey is far from finished and we know that as an AusCycling Ambassador, he will be playing a key role in inspiring the next generation of riders and cyclists.”

16 December 2022, 14:18
16 December 2022, 13:20
Proper Bling: Trek reveal Ellen van Dijk’s shiny new TT machine

Now, that’s a world champion’s bike.

Time trial world champ Ellen van Dijk certainly hasn’t held back when it comes to marking her third year in the rainbow jersey, when she’ll be riding this extremely bling, super shiny Trek Speed Concept:

I think I may need a pair of sunglasses just to look at that bike…

16 December 2022, 12:59
David O’Doherty, the Elon Musk of cycling

A topical joke now (on a cycling live blog, who’d have thought it?), for those keeping up to date with the latest incoherent ramblings from our tunnel-loving friend Elon:

16 December 2022, 12:13
Blue is the colour (in the 2023 peloton): More new kits, this time from Quick-Step

It’s fair to say that Quick-Step’s kits over the years have been somewhat hit and miss.

The cool, retro, clean 2010 and 2011 model sported by Tom Boonen, Sylvain Chavanel and co? A classic.

Quick-Step 2010

The weird, ‘is this really supposed to look like a blue wolf on a white background’ kit from two years ago? Not so much.

Julian Alaphilippe wins Tour de France 2020 Stage 2 (copyright Cor Vos, SWpix.com)

Cor Vos/SWpix.com

So, where does the 2023 iteration of the long-running Belgian team – which will be known as Soudal Quick-Step next year (that’ll take some getting used to) – rank on the cycling sartorial chart?

I have to say, I’m not a fan. It’s all a bit busy and Androni-like, especially on the sponsor-laden shoulders and sleeves. A solid if slightly disappointing 4/10.

Though that’s before we get to the colour. While Quick-Step have been wearing blue and white ever since Tulio Campagnolo invented the quick release, the 2023 peloton looks set to resemble a constantly moving river, as Groupama-FDJ, Astana, and now Israel-Premier Tech have all opted for blue so far, with the prospect of more to come from Movistar, Alpecin-Deceuninck, and BikeExchange.

Well, at least it won’t be as bad as that time in the early 2010s when everyone and their granny was wearing black…

16 December 2022, 11:41
From breakaway king to caddy: Jacky Durand’s new career

I’ve heard that golf may be the new cycling…

At least that’s the case for retired French pro Jacky Durand who, after years of relentlessly attacking the bunch, is instead spending this week telling someone else to attack the greens.

1992 Tour of Flanders winner Durand, who now commentates on races for Eurosport, has swapped the bike and microphone for the bib and bag full of clubs in his new role as caddy for Spanish golfer Hugo Esposito at the ongoing Mauritius Open.

Unfortunately for young Hugo, the underdog magic that saw Durand take three stages at the Tour de France doesn’t seem to be rubbing off on the fairways – the Madrid man, born to French parents, is currently five over after 14 holes so far today, leaving him ten over overall and in joint 148th.

Maybe don’t quit your day job just yet, Jacky.

16 December 2022, 11:08
New kit klaxon: Israel-Premier Tech unveil funky new “abstract” kit

They may have dropped down to ProTeam division after ignominiously succumbing to cycling’s first ever WorldTour relegation battle, but Israel-Premier Tech are certainly stepping up a level when it comes to the sick threads they’ll be rocking in 2023 (in this humble writer’s opinion, of course. Your mileage for watered down psychedelica may vary).

Rather than taking inspiration from a Jimi Hendrix solo, Israel-Premier Tech’s manager Kjell Carlström says that the squad’s blue ‘change strip’ for this year’s Tour de France – worn with great aplomb by stage winners Simon Clarke and Hugo Houle – prompted the team to overhaul the rather mundane, business-like white jersey of recent years.

2022 tdf stage 16 hugo houle israel Zac Williams / SwPix.com

Hugo Houle on his way in blue to winning stage 16 of the 2022 Tour de France (Zac Williams/SWPix.com)

“When it came to designing our 2023 kit, we wanted to do something a little different,” Carlström said.

“Our Racing For Change kit at the Tour de France was a huge success and, in our opinion, one of the best kits in the peloton in recent years. So we figured, why not do something a bit different all season long.

“Blue and white, the Israeli colours, are at the core of our identity. But, as we saw in 2022, there was a lot of blue and white in the peloton. So, we wanted to add some additional colour into the mix and create a fresh and modern look that stands out on the bike.

“Particularly on the back of the jersey, where we have replaced the team logo with the monogram of our star and P from Premier Tech so that we can be easily spotted on television. That’s our aim for 2023: stand out in the peloton when it comes to our kit design and the way we race.”

Well, it’s a thumbs up from me. What do you reckon?

16 December 2022, 10:38
Lance and Vino, the rematch: This time, it’s on Twitter

The irony of Astana supremo and convicted blood doper Alexander Vinokourov sacking one of his star riders, Miguel Ángel López, for allegedly being linked to a shady doctor hasn’t been lost on many onlookers.

> Miguel Ángel López sacked by Astana due to doping links, but rider maintains he has “never tested positive”

Including, it seems, one of Vino’s old Tour de France rivals (who you may have heard of):

I hate it admit it, but Big Tex may have a point when it comes to professional cycling’s ex-doper redemption lottery… 

16 December 2022, 10:21
Zwift user tries the gym (and a joke)
Zwift user at the gym (credit - James Evans)

Ach, it’s Friday…

Ryan Mallon

After obtaining a PhD, lecturing, and hosting a history podcast at Queen’s University Belfast, Ryan joined road.cc in December 2021 and since then has kept the site’s readers and listeners informed and enthralled (well at least occasionally) on news, the live blog, and the road.cc Podcast. After boarding a wrong bus at the world championships and ruining a good pair of jeans at the cyclocross, he now serves as road.cc’s senior news writer. Before his foray into cycling journalism, he wallowed in the equally pitiless world of academia, where he wrote a book about Victorian politics and droned on about cycling and bikes to classes of bored students (while taking every chance he could get to talk about cycling in print or on the radio). He can be found riding his bike very slowly around the narrow, scenic country lanes of Co. Down.

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82 comments

Avatar
Rome73 | 1 year ago
6 likes

regarding flexible bollards.  The suggestion to use occasional metal ones is a sensible one. That's what they do around the roads near where we live in Paris. All the segregation is rubber except for the occasional 'strategic' post which is solid metal. Even the rubber ones - compared to the ones in London  at least - are pretty hefty. But the metals ones just keep the cars off the pavements and off the cycle lanes. It's such a simple solution. 

Avatar
stonojnr replied to Rome73 | 1 year ago
1 like

Reckon they work in Paris simply because the French just accept them sangfroid. The Brits, ably exampled by 2 drivers I met yesterday, just treat cones,bollards,pavements as things to drive through to get where they damn well want and to hell with anyone else.

Avatar
mattw replied to stonojnr | 1 year ago
0 likes

Is that actually the case?

Laws have traditionally been less followed in France than the UK afaics - as works through into casualty numbers.

Do we have data for a decent comparison between Paris and London around infra, mileage by bike, and casualties?

Avatar
stonojnr replied to mattw | 1 year ago
1 like

No stats,just gut feel, maybe completely wrong.

But feels in the UK only way you'll stop people driving over bollards, is to wire them upto the national grid.

If Paris is able to install bollards and they aren't treated as skittles to drive over, there's got to be a different attitude in play among their drivers.

Avatar
brooksby | 1 year ago
4 likes

Quote:

Salford’s cycling roundabout is finally complete! And it’s even madder than I imagined it would be…

Yes.

That is utterly mad...  

Avatar
quiff replied to brooksby | 1 year ago
2 likes

WHAT is that give way sign doing on the circulatory part of the roundabout?! 

Avatar
Rome73 replied to brooksby | 1 year ago
0 likes

And it's completely unnecessary - the road is filtered anyway so there are no motor vehicles. 

Avatar
cmedred | 1 year ago
8 likes

Why not just a law making it legal to slash the sidewall of a vehicle parked in a cycle lane to encourage some community enforcement of the rules? Granted it might, in fairness, require putting up signs warning motorists that "Vehicles parked here are at risk of having their tires legally slashed.'' But such a law would surely get better compliance with the ban on parking in cycle lanes. 

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to cmedred | 1 year ago
4 likes

cmedred wrote:

Why not just a law making it legal to slash the sidewall of a vehicle parked in a cycle lane to encourage some community enforcement of the rules? Granted it might, in fairness, require putting up signs warning motorists that "Vehicles parked here are at risk of having their tires legally slashed.'' But such a law would surely get better compliance with the ban on parking in cycle lanes. 

It's a great idea, but rather than slashing the tyres which just contributes to waste, we should instead fine them for their inconsiderate parking.

Also, people in the community may feel threatened by some of the more aggressive drivers, so it'd be better to employ people to enforce the parking rules so that they don't even know the vehicle owners or even live nearby.

Avatar
Benji326 | 1 year ago
6 likes

Protecting cycle lanes with a few upright sticks is clearly not enough. Take a tip from cities with correct cycling infrastructure, Seattle for example. Raised curbs between cycle lane and traffic, bright green tarmac to denote lane, with the additional uprights if the'yre desperate. Councils are reluctant to spend money on correct ifrastructure however 'buy cheap buy twice'.High street shops may complain that parking outside their store will affect business however that can be overcome with adequate parking elsewhere in town and a car parked outside your store doesn't necessarily mean that driver is going to shop there so the reason is null. Better cycling infrastructre is beneficial for all, leaders need to realise this.

Avatar
IanMSpencer replied to Benji326 | 1 year ago
5 likes

But, but, motorists will crash if you put in kerbs, so it is too dangerous to protect cyclists' lives from careless drivers who risk damaging their cars.

If only this was sarcasm, but it is the argument put forward every time car resistant structures are put in place. Mind you, this is a country where people feel that driving a car into someone's living room is business as usual and the fault of the council rather than the apparently driverless car.

Avatar
Hirsute replied to IanMSpencer | 1 year ago
2 likes

Or double decker bus as HP posted in the main car/building thread !

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Hirsute | 1 year ago
2 likes

hirsute wrote:

Or double decker bus as HP posted in the main car/building thread !

To be fair to the bus driver, it was a car (no driver involved) that crashed into the bus that caused it to collide with a house. The car driver then did a runner, so maybe they were scared that their car was after them next?

Avatar
chrisonabike replied to Benji326 | 1 year ago
2 likes

Like this?  I know in places the US is catching up fast (as it always does) but goodness me, I wouldn't look over there for ideas!  The US is still one of the most car-addicted places on the planet, throwing good money after bad on giant car arteries in a doomed attempt to fix a systemic problem.  Their bike infra is happening in that context.  Thankfully we didn't go quite as far down that road (pun intended).  So their efforts are laudable but not what we should be looking at.

If we need an achievable 2nd/3rd rate solution to get us started then Copenhagen or possibly Seville are worth a look.  Someone's done that for us, in detail.

Totally with you about some kind of better physical divider though - until we've made the cycle area as clear as they do in NL and a generation of drivers have learned.

Actually there is one thing I've seen in the US which is their use of the Jersy barrier ("Concrete step barrier" in UK?) as a quick but effective separation method.  High enough to be clear to cars, pedestrians and cyclists.  Also moveable - but not by yobbos.

It should definitely be possible to leave gaps wide enough for e.g. wheelchair / adapted cycle access but prevent cars getting in.  I'm not aware of safety concerns - except possibly at the ends of a section where e.g. people can run into them (possibly upending their car).  I've heard some places in the US removed some because "cars kept hitting them..." - but then you'd need to do that with the houses too.

Also with you on colour - but please UK, whatever colour it is can we just choose one?  We need to make it as clear and simple as possible for people carrying out tricky tasks (driving).

Avatar
mattw replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
1 like

All sensible.

The NPPF and the standards docs require to be nobbled !

Avatar
Car Delenda Est replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
0 likes

The irritating thing about America is that, as they've already bulldozed everything to make way for the car, they'll have an easier time switching than we will.
If 6+ lanes for an arterial is standard even in small rural towns then they have room for cycles, PT, and motors, which will make for a smooth transition.

For us in many places dedicated car lanes will need to be axed, public transport given priority over private. Of course the previously privileged will feel discriminated against.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Car Delenda Est | 1 year ago
2 likes

Car Delenda Est wrote:

The irritating thing about America is that, as they've already bulldozed everything to make way for the car, they'll have an easier time switching than we will. If 6+ lanes for an arterial is standard even in small rural towns then they have room for cycles, PT, and motors, which will make for a smooth transition. For us in many places dedicated car lanes will need to be axed, public transport given priority over private. Of course the previously privileged will feel discriminated against.

I disagree - they've gone so all-in on personal motor vehicles that they're stuck that way except for possibly high density cities.

Due to all the parking and extra lanes required for their vehicles, they've increased the distance between things, so they're stuck trying to replace a long commute to their work with a massive bike ride instead. The same applies to their shops - there's no route to get to most of their malls without using hostile roads.

Avatar
chrisonabike replied to Car Delenda Est | 1 year ago
1 like

Unfortunately it seems the freedom that US places have in setting their local designs have led to a trap in which they run short of tax to pay to maintain their far-flung infra (not just roads) so try to get more revenue with more people, by building further sprawling suburbia...

So in theory yes but in practice the US has some particular issues (they do like to be different!). So although UK tried to import US car culture the planning situation seems a bit different. Best to concentrate on models closer to the UK situation (literally and figuratively).

Notjustbikes and Strongtowns are my main sources on this one, they've a ton of stuff on this topic eg.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0

Finally we should reclaim driving space for moving people rather than vehicles. That's definitely the next goal. However it's not brilliant as is. Cyclists and pedestrians really need spaces designed for them. Not our barren wide driving spaces with nothing but hard surfaces and reinforced vertical edges. Plus cyclists don't need traffic lights, most roundabouts could go etc.

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hawkinspeter replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
2 likes

I recall reading about how some U.S. towns are going bankrupt as they were enticed to get lots of cheap roads built and then the contractors stiff them with very expensive maintenance contracts on those 'cheap' roads.

Edit: found this blog post explaining in more detail: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/1/9/the-real-reason-your-city-has-no-money

Avatar
mark1a replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
2 likes

Sounds like PFI here. 

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to mark1a | 1 year ago
3 likes

mark1a wrote:

Sounds like PFI here. 

I got the impression that PFI was more of a shell game to hide debts from balance sheets.

Avatar
mark1a replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
2 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

mark1a wrote:

Sounds like PFI here. 

I got the impression that PFI was more of a shell game to hide debts from balance sheets.

Well it certainly did that, by reducing the amount of capital investment needed for infrastructure, but short-sighted as many of the contracts tied the govt/health trusts/etc into "maintenance" or "management" contracts where only certain contractors can do works, some of these are bordering on robbery. Often the contracts are indexed or ratchet upwards. The ongoing costs dwarf what the original build cost for the hospital/prison/school had they just borrowed it, after all a govt with a central bank can borrow money very cheaply. Current PFI debt servicing could probably fund the NHS now. 

I probably have a clouded view, most of my opinions on this have been formed over the years by reading Private Eye. 

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to mark1a | 1 year ago
1 like

mark1a wrote:

Well it certainly did that, by reducing the amount of capital investment needed for infrastructure, but short-sighted as many of the contracts tied the govt/health trusts/etc into "maintenance" or "management" contracts where only certain contractors can do works, some of these are bordering on robbery. Often the contracts are indexed or ratchet upwards. The ongoing costs dwarf what the original build cost for the hospital/prison/school had they just borrowed it, after all a govt with a central bank can borrow money very cheaply. Current PFI dent servicing could probably fund the NHS now. 

I probably have a clouded view, most of my opinions on this have been formed over the years by reading Private Eye. 

We've got a general problem of focussing on short term gain/advantage and not considering the long term effect. In part, our political system encourages short-term thinking as political parties want to boast about massive savings and then leave the long term problems to other people (preferably different parties so that they can shift the blame for the problems). Also, capitalism tends to promote short term gains over longer term plans - it's highly visible in stock markets.

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chrisonabike replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
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Agree but I'd say "it's natural". Human attention spans, reward and reinforcement pathways, memory etc are not ideally set up for particularly long- term considerations. Reasoning about how humans interact en-mass given that design is not even one discipline but several! Plus humans have only very recently outlasted what seems to be their physical "design lifetime" of say 30-40 years.

Should we convert more of the planet into cake shops because most people like cake, or refrain because our (great)^n (grand)children might not be so keen on cake, or should have the right to choose what they do with the place? What if we don't have children?

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chrisonabike replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
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Should the self of today eat the cake, knowing that the self of tomorrow will likely be all self-critical about having eaten so much cake?

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NOtotheEU replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
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chrisonatrike wrote:

Should the self of today eat the cake, knowing that the self of tomorrow will likely be all self-critical about having eaten so much cake?

Sadly for me when it comes to actual cake the answer is always "YES".

Fortunately tomorrow me is very forgiving.

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hawkinspeter replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
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chrisonatrike wrote:

Should the self of today eat the cake, knowing that the self of tomorrow will likely be all self-critical about having eaten so much cake?

The cake is a lie

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chrisonabike replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
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There is no cake.

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chrisonabike replied to mark1a | 1 year ago
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Or you get what we had in Edinburgh and beyond where a PFI group presides over lethally shoddy construction jobs. Then it seems they didn't check further even when the issues started coming to light.

The Council didn't check either, a report said that "There was an over-reliance on the part of the council, without adequate evidence, that others in the project structure, including those building the schools, would comprehensively fulfil this essential role".

Budget-friendly money pits... and Flintshire Lad could justifiably crow about "Laybuh" on this, not that anyone else improved things.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/09/damning-report-slams-fir...

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mark1a replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
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This just adds more to the point I was making...

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