“I don’t think anyone is riding SRAM unless they’re paid to, or forced by their sponsor”: Phil Gaimon calls Jumbo-Visma dropping Shimano a “marginal loss”; Shell logo appears on (most) GB kits; Boonen: Van Aert could do better + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
"I don't think anyone is riding SRAM unless they're paid to, or forced by their bike sponsor": Phil Gaimon calls Jumbo-Visma dropping Shimano a "marginal loss"
As Ryan shared on yesterday’s live blog, the off-season news from the Netherlands (yep, it’s that time of year when we’ve got to make something out everything other than actual bike racing) is that Jumbo-Visma are dropping Shimano for next season after SRAM made the team an offer the Japanese manufacturer was unwilling to match…
No gun to the head here (as far as we’re aware…), just cold hard cash… probably. Retired pro turned KOM hunter Phil Gaimon had something to say about the move, calling it a “marginal loss”, one he joked he’d like to see the UCI implement for all teams who get too dominant. ‘Sorry, Annemiek, you’re on Apex next year…’
I don’t think anyone is riding sram unless they’re paid to, or forced by their bike sponsor. If a team is buying parts and can afford to choose, it’s shimano. https://t.co/EZeNwddGOO
— Phil Gaimon (@philgaimon) October 13, 2022
Before saying there’s a 5-10 watt difference between SRAM and Shimano…
It’s a 5-10 watt handicap that’s all. Matters at that level
— Phil Gaimon (@philgaimon) October 13, 2022
https://t.co/0BuCW4KnqZ pic.twitter.com/bBsP79tgch
— Phil Gaimon (@philgaimon) October 13, 2022
Something some questioned…
Doesn’t that graph show only a 1.9w difference between Sram AXS and Shimano 11s? Also, it doesn’t have the newer 12s Shimano chain, which anecdotally you’d expect to be a touch slower due to the tighter tolerances.
— Øllie Smith (@olliesmith_17) October 13, 2022
The Force 12-speed chain is losing .64W to the Dura-Ace 11-speed chain at hour 13. The major losses on a SRAM drivetrain are only observed in the 10t cog due to increased articulation. I do wish they had 11-XXt cassettes, but the 10t is handy for increasing gear range on dirt.
— TobinRacesBikes (@TobinHatesYou) October 13, 2022
This all got very nerdy very quickly, but I think the salient fact is this… Wout van Aert is still going to win bike races. Now, any chance of Bauke Mollema signing?
Pictures you can hear…
But what about us?
I mean worldtour teams don’t buy it 🤦♂️
— Phil Gaimon (@philgaimon) October 13, 2022
Still, look on the bright side SRAM owners… “Phil Gaimon says I’m losing 5 to 10 watts” can be added to the list of reasons you got dropped on the group ride…
It makes you think
Road Space Comparison https://t.co/5rsOf8WOmq pic.twitter.com/pKX9KANgCn
— Randall Munroe (@xkcd) October 12, 2022
Tom Boonen: "Wout van Aert could have done better this year"
How was Wout van Aert’s 2022? He won three Tour de France stages, a green jersey, Omloop, E3, stages at Paris-Nice and the Dauphiné, as well as helping teammate Jonas Vingegaard win yellow… oh, and Wout finished in the top five of 82 per cent of the one-day races he took part in — BUT, the prodigiously talented Belgian “could have done better”… apparently.
[ASO/Pauline Ballet]
That’s according to Tom Boonen who told Wielerflits: “I hear he couldn’t have done better this year, but I don’t agree with that”.
“The only thing missing this year is a Monument, they say. But that matters. A rider of his level is racing to win those races. It’s nice that you are called the best rider in the world for months, but that’s not the point. Wout has to win classics.
“Ask him. He will also say that that is what he wants. At the same time, I don’t want to be too strict. Wout was having a very nice spring and he had the bad luck that he dropped out due to corona at a crucial moment, just before the Tour of Flanders.
“The years are ticking. I am convinced that he will still succeed, but will he win the Ronde three times and Roubaix four times? Champions race for those kinds of records.”
Well, there you go. If Wout ‘must do better’ there’s not much hope for the rest of us…
Great Britain win medals at Track Cycling World Championships as Shell logo makes debut on (most riders') kits
ANOTHER medal for Great Britain!
Bronze in the Men’s Team Sprint to match the result in the Women’s event 👏 🥉#SQY2022 pic.twitter.com/Yjp2SjMxLn
— British Cycling (@BritishCycling) October 12, 2022
The Shell era has begun…
Bronze for Jess Roberts! 🥉
A brilliant show of resilience in the closing laps results in Great Britain winning their first medal of the 2022 Track World Championships 👏 😍 https://t.co/44XQ2LWrAP
— British Cycling (@BritishCycling) October 12, 2022
Last night Great Britain won three medals on the opening day of the Track Cycling World Championships in France, with Jess Roberts winning a bronze in the women’s 10km scratch race before the men’s and women’s sprint teams also took bronze. The team pursuit squads delivered too: the women qualifying second fastest, the men set to take on Italy in today’s gold medal race after beating New Zealand.
Katie Archibald returned to competition as part of the women’s pursuit squad, her first race since the death of her partner Rab Wardell in August. Nobody could begrudge a British medal there…
Elsewhere, the talk of the town was Britain’s new Shell-shouldered kits…
SHELL POWER! https://t.co/ta8jAbuB7q
— Simon Warren (@100Climbs) October 12, 2022
That was until Emma Finucane and her team sprint teammates were interviewed after their bronze medal winning performance, with the Welsh rider’s kit notably missing the Shell logo…
How does it feel to win Bronze in the Women’s Team Sprint at a Track World Championships? Let’s find out!@EmmaFinucane123, Lauren Bell and @SophieECapewell share their thoughts after their closely-fought race against the Netherlands 🥉 🇳🇱#SQY2022 pic.twitter.com/vg4y6oFd7D
— British Cycling (@BritishCycling) October 12, 2022
We’re following leads to bring you the full story, but some have questioned if it could be a conscious decision?
Kudos to @EmmaFinucane123 for refusing to wear the Shell logo. @BritishCycling should be even more ashamed for trying to force these athletes to join in with their greenwashing.
— Andy Egan 🌱 (@AndyEgan63) October 13, 2022
It’s at this point we should probably stress there is no official word on why the logo was absent, and there are numerous foreseeable kit-related issues that could explain it. We’re doing some digging and will hopefully have something concrete to bring you later today…
👀
Those Shell logos are an abomination.
— Quartermaster Hanley 💚✊🏳️🌈 (@MattHanley) October 12, 2022
This is going well…
It’s so sad to see these great athletes reduced to being billboards for the deadly fossil fuel industry. I know it’s commonplace for professional teams but imagine working for years and dreaming of representing your country only to be told you have to wear a Shell logo to do so.
— James Smith (@drjnsmith) October 12, 2022
Shameful to see British Cycling sell out to fossil fuel giants
— George Cook (@george_cuckoo) October 12, 2022
shell logo is pure shame, makes me sick, poor athletes having to wear that
— Bit$piritual (@quantum_quentin) October 12, 2022
Shame their success is polluted
— Faerie Ro says: Ram it, Bunty! (@rotinkerbell) October 13, 2022
Gold medallist in Rio six years ago Callum Skinner asked fans to try to distinguish between riders and their governing body when criticising…
It’s not like playing for United and moving to City. For many disciplines it’s British Cycling or nothing.
— Callum Skinner (@CallumSkinner) October 13, 2022
Musical chains: UAE Team Emirates to switch to Shimano for 2023
UAE Team Emirates are to join Jumbo-Visma in switching groupset manufacturer ahead of next season, jumping ship to Shimano from Campagnolo. The Campag x Pog partnership saw the Slovenian win his two Tour de France titles and Monument success, and comes as the only rider who beat him at this year’s race, Jonas Vingegaard, moves to SRAM with the rest of his Jumbo-Visma teammates.
Cyclingnews reports UAE riders will be able to retain personal shoe sponsorships and opt for different wheels and components for their Colnago bikes.
So, what’s next? We’ve had Shimano to SRAM and Campag to Shimano, guess it’ll be a team ditching SRAM for Campag to complete the groupset triangle…
Some more top-tier Phil Gaimon content for your Thursday live blog enjoyment
I occasionally forget grocery bags but there’s always wheel bags in my car pic.twitter.com/azK94pHzac
— Phil Gaimon (@philgaimon) October 13, 2022
Dave Brailsford is living out of a caravan at Nice's training ground as he tries to save football experiment
More marginal gains talk here, or as Gaimon dubbed it… “marginal losses”…
Dave Brailsford is reportedly living out of a caravan at French Ligue 1 outfit OGC Nice’s training ground as he tries to rescue his venture into the sport. The club sit 13th in the league, well off the level the fans expect, with L’Equipe reporting the Ineos team principle has made his South of France home a “luxury camper” in the “car park”…
“I think Brailsford is making a lot of mistakes at Nice that is very much counterproductive to what the project is and what it should be,” French football journalist Julien Laurens told BBC Radio 5 Live.
“He reminds me a little bit of Sir Clive Woodward when England won the Rugby World Cup. He thought he could go into any sport, including football, and be successful and it just doesn’t happen like that.”
"There's traffic calming and then there's traffic calming"
In London Town, there’s traffic calming and then there’s traffic calming👌🏻
(Perhaps more of a summer activity). pic.twitter.com/fbbxHjr1LM
— Carla Francome (@carlafrancome) October 12, 2022
It rhymes with roadblock…
Paralympic cyclist Lora Fachie will read first ever CBeebies Bedtime Story in braille
Reading aloud is not one of my strengths, but sometimes it’s good to come out of your comfort zone. Incredible experience reading tonight‘s bedtime story on @CBeebiesHQ in #Braille about a boy learning to read Braille and his classmates thinking it’s a secret code. #WorldSightDay pic.twitter.com/AV0Gu5LCKx
— Lora Fachie MBE (@loraturnham) October 13, 2022
Paralympic gold medallist on the track Lora Fachie (and her guide dog Tai) will appear on tonight’s CBeebies Bedtime Story, reading from a book in braille for the first time on the show.
The episode will air on CBeebies tonight at 18.50pm, available afterwards via the iPlayer, and will see Fachie reading The Secret Code by Dana Meachen Rau. Illustrated by Bari Weissman it tells the tale of a boy whose classmates think he uses a secret code to read, only to discover it is braille.
Fachie has a hereditary sight loss condition and lost her sight aged five. “I am over the moon to read a CBeebies Bedtime Story for the first time in braille,” she said.
“I have always enjoyed reading and hope this will encourage everyone to want to read whether they use their eyes, their ears, their fingers or a secret code.”
Cycling UK launches Rebellion Way — 232-mile (373km) tour of Norfolk
Cycling UK today launched its sixth route — the Rebellion Way — a 232-mile (373km) tour of Norfolk starting in Norwich. The route was officialy launched this morning and the charity says it will be the first accessible adventure route for people using adapted bikes like handcycles or tricycles.
The route is designed to be ridden over four to six days and, Cycling UK says, uses a “varied mix of country lanes, bridleways, byways, cycle paths and forest tracks” and is “suitable for anyone with reasonable fitness on the vast majority of bikes”.
Claire Frecknall, an ambassador for Mason Cycles, rode the Rebellion Way in early September, and concluded it is a “great ‘all ability’ route” with “quiet lanes, beautiful forests and big skies, a proper adventure but without masses of elevation. I’d definitely recommend it to anyone looking to take their first steps into multi-day trips.”
13 October 2022, 08:16
13 October 2022, 08:16
13 October 2022, 08:16
13 October 2022, 08:16
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@Smoggysteve "Most would happily ride on the roads and be treated with respect by drivers". But people aren't - and as far as I can see they won't be. Not until there is a lot less driving and it's slower around cyclists, and far more people driving have "skin in the game" eg. they sometimes cycle and their friends and family do also. That's what leads to the model - which is perhaps most advanced in NL - where cycling, walking and driving are all seen as separate normal transport modes. Their needs, vulnerabilities and any dangers to others are considered. And *that* leads to "mix / share when possible, separate when necessary". But "possible" is "where your 10-year old would be safe to cycle unsupervised" - so very few motor vehicles, going slow! And AFAICS everybody - even "existing cyclists" - is happy with the result. (I dunno about a few pro cyclists - but don't they tend to have training camps in different counties anyway?)
@quiff as an Edinburgh resident I can confidently say he's speaking without moving his lips in one sense: - while as I noted in a separate comment there *is* now some real separated cycle infra, all the examples i can think of have *at least as much space* for pedestrians. The rest of the "cycle infra" is essentially similar to the situation in the rest of the UK: eg. bus lanes*, cycle lanes and shared use paths (eg. "build" infra by sticking up a sign). Edinburgh is one of the places with a moderately extensive network of former railways which have been converted to "shared use" paths (completely motor traffic few). However though shared they are not narrow by UK standards. And this is all effectively a "free extra" for all non- motorised users, not like the "sign a cycle path" where pedestrians do lose space. I think this all comes from the "popular understanding" of cycling in which ultimately cyclists are the "other". They don't fit "motor vehicle" or "pedestrian" (including wheelchairs on the very rare occasions people think about that). Thus "cyclists are cheating" in multiple ways! They shouldn't get their own space as "there aren't enough" of them. And "they can just use the road / path". But being able to *choose* "on the road" or "on the footway" (shared use path) is clearly unfair - nobody else gets to do that! BUT of course even if they did pick just one of road OR pedestrian space it's still not fair anyway because they're "too slow" for the road (don't pay "road tax" etc...) and "far too fast" for pedestrians... * Though some existing cyclists may appreciate them when there are few buses, buses and bikes are a very poor mix for several reasons.
Whilst a shame for any employees, their bib shorts had the worst chamois pad I’d ever encountered, utter waste of my money. Even though they were Strava challenge discount purchases, still a waste of money.
Thanks, just going to have to suck it up. Got next week off and will take the easy, if expensive option...
@ktache Just go for the TNT Sports only package, £30.99 for a month. Alternatively have you considered experimenting with a VPN for a few pounds, allowing you to sign up for a free stream abroad, e.g. SBS Australia which streams the Tour live? If I didn't have a kind mate's login that's what I'd do!
So, it's now the month of July and I'm going to have to pay to watch the TdF, for one month only. On a tablet unfortunately, as I didn't manage to get a laptop to rig up to the TV, grrr. Just wondering, what package will I have to fork out for? Not wanting to pay for the wrong one...
Not that it sounds like a dealbreaker given the other faults you've identified, but that cable isn't really a "proprietary" cable, four pin magnetic cables like that are quite common on bone-conducting headphones and other devices (my inexpensive smartwatch uses one) and they can be had for £4.99 on UK Amazon.
There was never really anything to say about le col kit. Most of it was alright. Some of it was poorly designed/made. Trying to position yourself as a Rapha competitor whilst always offering 40% or more off doesn't scream premium though.
Up next in the MucOff product line; for when the cassette won't budge, (chain)whip-it!
35 thoughts on ““I don’t think anyone is riding SRAM unless they’re paid to, or forced by their sponsor”: Phil Gaimon calls Jumbo-Visma dropping Shimano a “marginal loss”; Shell logo appears on (most) GB kits; Boonen: Van Aert could do better + more on the live blog”
I’m very happy with SRAM Red
I’m very happy with SRAM Red etap 11-speed. I wouldn’t go for their 12-speed because of the 10-up cassette.
Why not? Unless you’re a pro
Why not? Unless you’re a pro or the sort of person who poo’s off some weight before a ride it really doesnt matter. Marginal gains are pointless for even a mid-level amateur rider let alone the average road.cc reader.
I liked the thinking behind
I liked the thinking behind Sram’s alternative thinking on gears, but not the inflexible options. Took me a while to get my head around an 11T sprocket tbh. How a bike feels to me is really important, and pros complaining about the 10T sprocket swayed me (as did the thought of having to upgrade my wheels, too). Marginal loss it may be, but I’m haggered enough to know what I like.
I haven’t tried the sram 12
I haven’t tried the sram 12 speed myself, but for a real world (ie non pro, leisure cyclist) surely the extra gear range their philosophy gives would be worth giving up 5-10 watts in top gear? How often do you find yourself in 50×11 for long periods of time when you are not going downhill? Even in fast groups I don’t generally have that problem. I do often want an easier gear in the mountains- and I have an 11-34 cassette.
Curious, we write 50×11 when
Curious, we write 50×11 when logically it should be 50/11.
Fair point – less mind
Fair point – less mind bending than the holy guru Sheldon Brown’s gear inches though.
What I notice is that I
What I notice is that I prefer being on a similar gear on the big ring to the small ring. I suspect that the chain wrap small to small is noticeable (Ultegra 11 speed). Whether it is real or my imagination is struggle to prove.
The other problem with a 10 cog is excess wear. 10% more tooth wear compared with an 11T, just by fewer teeth, but likely to be increased further by the increased wrap.
Build and design quality of SRAM is not all that. When SRAM Red gets sent out with missing circlips and SRAM deny they exist when sent back for inspection makes for a lack of confidence. Finally, their front mech design has always been poor without the lifts and shaping that Campy and Shimano use, combined with the one hit change meaning a failed change can’t be caught and retried, you always start again, and a dropped chain needs a bit of thought as to what to try with the changer. In other words, there are reasons not to do the front changer the way SRAM do it – fine when the stars are aligned, but unforgiving when they are not.
I absolutly love my 11sp eTap
I absolutly love my 11sp eTap. It works flawlessly and requires zero maintence. From a mechanics perspective I would have thought this would be welcome? Bolt on two derailleurs, pair the system; done. Ok, I’ve glossed over the details but it really is that simple. Wasn’t there a Jumbo Visma rider whos Di2 system went into some sort of safemode because of a knock and lost the stage? Plus all the dropped chains that teams faced this year on Shimano.
The bigger question to be asked surely is why Shimano no longer sponsor probably the best team at the moment? That doesn’t make sense to me.
Have a look at the parts bin
Have a look at the parts bin in any bike shop. Full if Shimano broken chainsets and SRAM failed transmission.
Which shows nobody buys Campy
Which shows nobody buys Campy any more.
IanMSpencer wrote:
Or that Campag doesn’t break…..
Nino Schurter has won
Nino Schurter has won everything with Sram…..that’s good enough for me. If they were failing all the time it would be understandable ……..
I honestly despair at some people in cycling;
I think their MTB and their
I think their MTB and their road offerings have very different reputations, don’t they? That said Mrs H has SRAM on her road and gravel bikes and it’s always performed perfectly…
Complete support for Mikey
Complete support for Mikey from me!! No support whatsoever for Martin 73
Just read an article in the
Just read an article in the Grauniad where ‘Mericans were complaining about the high price of “gas” (petrol). At $4 per gallon. A US gallon is, according to google, 3.78 litres. So they are complaining about the high price of paying $1.05 per litre…
But consider how much a full
But consider how much a full tank costs for them or how many mpg their vehicles use. Plus their average trip distance. They are used to cheap driving.
I can see their point.
I can see their point.
That’s about £5 a litre at current exchange rates.
Has no one noticed that
Has no one noticed that Belgium National Team are powered by Esso? I would rather petro-energy companies spend their money on cycling rather than other stuff.
And Russia probably still are
And Russia probably still are by Gazprom, your point being what ?
It’s not a race to the bottom, just because other national federations choose sponsors that raise serious questions about their activities and impact on the world, which is both a moral & ethical debate, that BC should just follow suit and chase the cash ?.
The Giblet wrote:
They are presumably, like any other company, spending their money on cycling in the hope that the advertising will provide them with a greater return than the monies expended, so they will then have more money, rather than less, to spend on “other stuff”.
the notice for the stolen
the notice for the stolen bike is great and karma etc but the person who the bike was stolen back from may have been innocent – in that they bought it from a second hand market / on line in good faith. Tough luck I guess.
I take it all the people who
I take it all the people who are faux up in arms about shell sponsoring british cycling won’t be filling their cars up with petrol anytime soon?
Just be happy someone is putting money into cycling. It could be worse, you could have much more shady organisations investing.
That’s such a specious
That’s such a specious argument, it’s like if McDonalds had sponsored BC instead saying people who complained shouldnt be eating food again.
Awavey wrote:
Exactly, and even if people were eating McDonald’s they could legitimately express reservations about parts of their promotional activities, e.g., one could enjoy the occasional Big Mac but still say they shouldn’t be allowed to advertise on children’s TV.
I’ve read enough about Shell
I’ve read enough about Shell over the years to know that they’re shady as hell.
I don’t give a shit if some dimwit arsewipe pops up and thinks I shouldn’t have any ethical opinions if I own a car. My wife doesn’t drive and she finds it a complete PITA merely trying to get across town to work on public transport. And anyone living in rural areas has no choice because the Tories have deliberately run public transport into the ground. Tory voters are mostly selfish bastards who don’t care about anyone but themselves.
Perhaps if Rosneft and Gazprom sponsor a couple of teams all these arseholes complaining about the objections to the BC-Shell deal will cheer for those teams, buy the jerseys etc and be very happy to support Russia’s military objectives in Ukraine and elsewhere.
exactly, or avoid lycra,
exactly, or avoid lycra, tyres, innertubes, tupperware, polyester, carbon fibre parts, lube etc etc
Petrol and diesel are the secondary products of crude oil
Pyro Tim wrote:
Accepting that, regrettably, we live in a society where many things rely on petrochemical products does not preclude objecting to the ethical and environmental standards of petroleum companies and particularly objecting to them attempting to greenwash their activities by sponsoring cycling.
Why is it green washing?
Why is it green washing? Cycling isn’t green, they fly to races, have 100s of support vehicles. The bikes and equipment are almost single use products from the petrochemical industry at pro level, certainly don’t remain in use more than a season. We need to look at culture rather than who pays, expecailly when they are paying for their own products.
We’re told by vegans not to use animal products, told that too much water is used in natural products such as cotton, so we rely on man made fibres, which are petrochem. We drive to races, or sometimes just to go for a ride. It’s blatant hypocrisy to have a go at BC for taking the money on offer when just about everything we do is based on petrochem industry
Pyro Tim wrote:
A significant part of any cultural change surely must involve trying to attract more ethical sponsors to the sport as well as changing the sport’s own practices. It’s not either/or.
Indeed – it’s the age of
Indeed – it’s the age of plastic (“what will remain of us is PVC”). Or in biological terms the use of petrochemicals has “gone to fixation”. There is effectively no way of avoiding them. If you lived atop a moor in isolation any products you didn’t dig up or grow yourself would involve them. Similarly it is just possible – although inconvenient – to avoid batteries and computers in your personal usage. Again as soon as you interact with the external world your data will be on digital media and again all the products you use have been made with their use.
So probably the only people who can take a high moral stand here are the Sentinalese. But we can’t talk to them (they don’t want to) and it seems likely if the climate changes (they live on a smallish low-lying island) – or simply with the rest of the world around them – they won’t be around much longer.
chrisonatrike wrote:
Even in their case I’m sure certain people on here would say that they are hypocrites because their isolation is being protected by Indian Navy patrols, and what do those navy boats run on? Bloody hypocritical native tribes!
Also they’re happy to
Also they’re happy to scavenge metal from wrecks and they’re eating crabs and fish full of plastic! They’re trolling us!
Yep, all those being burnt in
Yep, all those being burnt in car engines is really a massive problem…….. you do realise it is the FUELS part that is the main problem here.
But it isn’t, well not from
But it isn’t, well not from your car anyway. The polution from cars is negligible on a global scale, although not good on the street where it happens. The real harm is cutting down rain forests, and burning gas / coal on huge scale in power stations. The hoo ha about this is just bullshit
abedfo wrote:
No, I won’t, I don’t own one on principle. Why do people always assume that others can’t possibly practise what they preach? Is it because they can’t imagine doing so themselves? Even if it was totally necessary to own a car, one could still protest about the methods and morals of petrol companies (Shell being a particularly egregious example of a bad one). Imagine a scenario in which one company, or a small group of companies, had completely cornered the market for all foodstuffs so that it was impossible to survive without purchasing from the cartel, I assume you would be saying anyone complaining about this would be a hypocrite because they were still eating food?