“Try listening to those who take bikes on trains”: Vertical cycle storage design concept criticised; How bikes on trains should be done; Virgin Galactic admits Branson’s pre-flight bike ride didn’t happen; Expensive fan; Sir Cav? + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
"Try listening to those who take bikes on trains": Vertical cycle storage design concept doesn't go down well
This is bad. This is always bad. If ever you see this, remember that it is bad. https://t.co/FaH0PLixYW
— Gareth Dennis (@GarethDennis) July 13, 2021
The government is currently investing £9 million in projects to improve rail journeys by running a competition where winning designs receive funding to continue to develop their plans. One such winner is PriestmanGoode whose ‘Proteus’ scheme provides a flexible seating layout that can be rearranged quickly to react to demand. That is how we come to this bike storage ‘solution’, which is one part of the design…
Unsurprisingly the reaction has been coming thick and fast…
No accommodation for full length guards or panniers.
Having to move the bike in the aisle BEFORE you can move the one near the window will be fun.
2 seats taken up by every bike to hack off the non-cyclists too, so everyone’s a winner…
— Jon Vernon (@OnlyInDevon) July 13, 2021
Now try it with a proper bike with mud guards, lights, and panniers. Try it with a trike. Try it with more than two bikes. Try it with passengers standing all around because there are no seats and the previous train was cancelled at no notice. Try it when there’s a pram there.
— Oscar Do Gooder Franklin (@OscarNMFranklin) July 12, 2021
Lockdown Cyclist said: “Who wants to lift up my dirty single speed bike and have it drip filth all over the seat for the next person to sit on? And imagine how pleased the next person will be who sits on a filthy seat. What happens when a passenger wants a seat and there’s a bike in the way. Garbage.”
I don’t understand why it needs to be made more complex than something like this: https://t.co/RdgcwOmsFN
— Sam Clifford (@samclifford) July 12, 2021
Speaking about the winning projects, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps commented: “These winners will hopefully play a role in putting passengers at the centre of our railways as we build back better from COVID-19. The competition always throws up surprises and the ideas shown today could transform how we travel in future.” Right, Grant…You might want to listen to some of the reaction first…
Back in 2019, Cycling UK slammed the “awful” cycle storage on GWR’s high-speed trains…And we’ve had our own terrible train experiences too…road.cc editor Jack took to the live blog to detail exactly what it’s like trying to take a very expensive bike across the country by train. Spoiler alert: it’s not fun…
Tour de France stage 17: The first of a Pyrenean mountain double-header with a summit finish at 2,200m
The next two stages are the final days of this year’s Tour de France in the mountains and the race organisers might just have saved the best until last. Stage 17 takes the peloton from Muret to the Hors Catégorie Col du Portet via two 1st Category mountains – the Peyresourde and Col de Val Louron-Azet.
The first 110km are flat and easy as the riders ease their way towards the high mountains. Kilometre 113 is going to be key as the intermediate sprint comes before the main climbs in Bagnères-de-Luchon, so Cav should not be dropped and will hope to re-establish his lead in the green jersey competition which has been cut in recent days. Michael Matthews’ superior climbing has allowed the Aussie to rack up the points while Cav has been in the grupetto, reducing the deficit to 38 points.
After the sprint it’s time for the Peyresourde, a stalwart of the Tour de France route. A short descent leads to Col de Val Louron-Azet, before another short descent takes the peloton to the foot of the final climb – Col du Portet.
At 2,200m, it is huge by the Pyrenees’ usually shorter, steeper standards. It’s an Alpine-sized climb with Pyrenean roughness and averages 8.7 per cent for 16km, rarely dropping below 10 per cent for the first six…Can anyone crack Tadej Pogačar?
The most expensive fan in cycling?
The most expensive fan in cycling ?#TissotNationsCup pic.twitter.com/yrCp1EnEwe
— UCI Track Cycling (@UCI_Track) July 12, 2021
Does the price include someone to wave it or is that extra?
Virgin Galactic admits Richard Branson's pre-flight bike ride didn't happen
It’s a beautiful day to go to space. We’ve arrived at @Spaceport_NM. Get ready to watch LIVE at 7:30 am PT | 10:30 am ET | 3:30 pm BST https://t.co/PcvGTmA661 #Unity22 pic.twitter.com/4KjGPpjz0M
— Richard Branson (@richardbranson) July 11, 2021
Virgin Galactic has admitted Richard Branson’s pre-flight spin to the space flight launch site, which was shown in a widely-shared video on the company’s stream of the event, didn’t happen. The video showed Branson riding a bike to the Spaceport America launch site, taking off his helmet on arrival before greeting crewmates.
Virgin Galactic yesterday admitted to Reuters that the video was actually filmed on Monday 5 July and that Branson did not ride his bike to the launch. “The footage of Sir Richard Branson shown during the event on Sunday was prerecorded and misidentified in the broadcast. We regret the error and any confusion it may have caused,” a Virgin Galactic official confirmed to Reuters.
Trek Bicycles claimed Branson rode one of its custom-made bikes on launch day, but it turns out the clip, which Branson shared to Twitter and was published by Virgin with the line ‘earlier today’, was actually from a week earlier. After the flight, Branson said, “It’s so awesome to arrive on a bicycle, across this beautiful New Mexico countryside.”
Does Cav deserve a knighthood? Poll results
Over on our forum there was a fair bit of debate about Mark Cavendish and whether the Manxman deserves a knighthood? We brought it to you guys, the good people of the live blog, for a classic bit of democracy…79 per cent agree Cav’s done enough for an honour, while nine per cent agreed but think it should be something other than a knighthood. Only 12 per cent thought he shouldn’t…
That’s as scientific as it gets…go on Queen ‘Liz, make it Sir Cav.
Col du Portet: Today's summit finish returns to the scene of Nairo Quintana's 2018 win when Geraint Thomas extended GC lead
1/ Today’s Tour de France stage is a mountain-top finish at Col de Portet. At 2215 metres it’s 100 metres higher than nearby Col du Tourmalet. This it’s 2nd Tour appearance. It was paved for its 2018 Tour debut. It was gravel when I visited. #TDF2021 pic.twitter.com/SYfLaSPLVG
— cyclingchallenge (@cyclingalps) July 14, 2021
The road may now be paved but it’s still an epic climb to finish stage 17. Chris Froome is one rider who will have bad memories of Col du Portet. This was the climb where, in 2018, he dropped 48 seconds to teammate Geraint Thomas, fell to third on GC and pledged his support to G. Nairo Quintana was the winner that day, while Dan Martin took second.
Today’s stage got underway half an hour ago…Lukas Pöstlberger, Anthony Perez, Danny van Poppel and Dorian Godon are at the head of the race. As it’s Bastille Day and with the words of their sports directors probably still ringing in their ears, Anthony Turgis, Maxime Chevalier and Julien Bernard are giving chase behind.
La Passione raises €7 million investment
Italian clothing brand La Passione has raised €7 million from a group of investors, to be funded over four years. “We have climbed many positions in the market in terms of sales, becoming a relevant brand in the industry. Now we want to increase our brand awareness, exploring new territories where online and offline marketing are integrated. The round will grant the development of these new projects,” said company co-founder and CEO Giuliano Ragazzi.
Former pro rider Andrea Tonti is one of the investors in the brand, which expects revenues exceeding €10 million in 2021 with 35 per cent of custom coming from the US and UK.
Pass of the Day
Have @Rossobus warned drivers to look out for lanky blokes with camera signs on their bikes? I moaned about a #ClosePass last week and they promised to do something… Look at this from this morning. Waited behind until it was safe to pass. Driver got a big thumbs up and a wave pic.twitter.com/XmLYEwVi2X
— PassPixi (@PassPixi) July 14, 2021
Michael Matthews beats Mark Cavendish to minor places at stage 17 intermediate sprint...Cav's lead still 36 points
💚 Intermediate sprint – peloton
9 points for 🇦🇺 @blingmatthews, 8 for 🇮🇲🇬🇧 @MarkCavendish. No major change in the green jersey classification.
9 points pour 🇦🇺 Michael Matthews, 8 pour 🇮🇲🇬🇧 Mark Cavendish. Pas d’incidence majeure au classement du maillot vert.#TDF2021 pic.twitter.com/XhErXXK5L0
— Tour de France™ (@LeTour) July 14, 2021
Michael Matthews took back one point on green jersey Mark Cavendish at today’s intermediate sprint. Led out by teammate Luka Mezgec, Matthews got the kick on Cav and held on to the line. With tomorrow’s intermediate points coming after a Category 4 climb and Friday’s at the top of an unclassified climb, Deceuninck-Quick-Step might start looking nervously over their shoulder at their Aussie rival. With 20 points available at both of those, the fight for the green jersey looks likely to be decided in Paris…
How does cycling affect core body temperature? Bora-Hansgrohe's stage 16 data
This mysteriously unnamed Bora-Hansgrohe rider’s core body temperature data has been sent to us and shows they spent almost three hours in the range 38-38.5ºC, the level normally associated with fever. We’re assuming it’s Patrick Konrad as he won the stage but are awaiting confirmation. According to Core Body Temp, high-intensity sports like cycling are healthier as the core body temperature increase triggers the body’s defence mechanism where the heat wards of bacteria.
The graph shows how the rider’s core body temperature plummeted at the top of each of the mountain passes as the exertion eased off, combined with cooling effect of descending and altitude. However, Core Body Temp notes that the decline was managed carefully through the rider being given extra layers for the descents and shows Bora-Hansgrohe nailed their support.
Reader comments: The problem of taking your bike on a train
I’m old enough to remember the halcyon days of the BR guard’s van. Loads of room for our tandem. It did have to lean against a sack-cloth covered coffin on a trip from London to Devon though.
I don’t think that joint cycle/human facilities are the answer, whatever orientation.— David (@Jockunstrapped) July 14, 2021
Some of your comments about today’s big live blog story…
eburtthebike wrote: “Just like transport itself, designing for bicycles has a multitude of people with no knowledge, experience or qualifications coming up with genius ideas which fall at the first hurdle. All the comments on that Proteus cycle parking are accurate, and the design has so many drawbacks that it would instantly be discarded in any country where cycling is mainstream.”
OnYerBike added: “There’s a lot of advice out there on what makes good bike parking. Bike spaces on a train should follow the exact same principals – just inside a carriage rather than inside (or outside) a building. I guess this goes without saying, but another major obstacle to taking a bike on a train is the booking process. Every different operator has their own system, and (as far as I can tell) none of those systems are at all good.”
Over on Facebook, Peter Burgess commented: “Not much good if your bike has mudguards (as my commuter bike does). Really time that train companies put two and two together and encouraged journeys by bike and train. It’s more or less possible to get anywhere in the UK quite easily if a combination of the two is used.”
Time for the climb
And there it is – in all its steep glory 😳#TDF2021 pic.twitter.com/H3YhnMV3sO
— ITV Cycling (@itvcycling) July 14, 2021
Anthony Perez and Dorian Godon are waving the French flag on Bastille Day. They’ve got three minutes advantage as we start the final climb. Will it be enough? UAE Team Emirates are chasing hard to set up Tadej Pogačar for a famous stage win…13km to go.
How bikes on trains should be done: Scot Rail's new Highland Explorer Carriages
. @ScotRail ‘s new Highland Explorer Carriages mean that as of NEXT WEEK families, adaptive bike users, bikepackers and day trippers alike can all escape Glasgow and explore our incredible west coast in a sustainable and healthy way. #LetsDoNetZero https://t.co/G23gCbVSSX pic.twitter.com/gzkvgsCWkh
— lee craigie (@leecraigie_) July 14, 2021
These new carriages have space for 20 bikes and are available for riders to book. They also have seating areas adjacent plus Wi-Fi and power sockets.
Our #HighlandExplorer train is on the move. We’re delighted to welcome @scotgov Minister for Transport Graeme Day, @leecraigie_, and @SustransScot on board. pic.twitter.com/KgXw8cKA8J
— ScotRail (@ScotRail) July 14, 2021
Sneaky Richie Carapaz
— Cycling out of context (@OutOfCycling) July 14, 2021
I bet sneaky Richie Carapaz is a good poker player…and to think Jonas Vingegaard only got his place on Jumbo-Visma’s Tour de France team when Tom Dumoulin stepped away from the sport…read all about stage 17 in our stage report.
how many 4 letter words did Vingegaard mutter to himself in the last 500m ?
— Jo Burt (@VecchioJo) July 14, 2021
Another stage ticked off...Mark Cavendish makes the time cut
💚 Green jersey 🇮🇲🇬🇧 @MarkCavendish has arrived within the time-limit in the gruppetto.
💚 Le maillot vert 🇮🇲🇬🇧 @MarkCavendish est arrivé dans les délais.#TDF2021 pic.twitter.com/yzQDfzYSwi
— Tour de France™ (@LeTour) July 14, 2021
One more big mountain stage tomorrow, a flat (ish) stage that could be a sprint or a breakaway day and a TT are all that stands between Mark Cavendish and Paris. The green jersey came home with his Deceuninck-Quick-Step teammates, Michal Kwiatkowski and Greg van Avermaet in the grupetto.
Tomorrow the peloton takes on the legendary Pyrenean double: Tourmalet and Luz Ardiden…
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Lol. I’ve been saying the same to my watch. It keeps prompting me I need to do more calories on certain days and I tell it - but I did some gardening in the afternoon which included digging but u don’t let me record that. And then I have another biscuit with my tea.
"~15% of the riding time that I’m forced to use the road(because the infrastructure for cycling is insufficient or nonexistent) " Amsterdam?
Same here. I have a helmet with built in front and rear lights and have a red light clipped onto my bag plus lights attached to my bike front and rear but still have drivers putting me in danger. My commute is about two miles and I normally have around four incidents a week where I have to brake hard or take other evasive action to avoid being hit by distracted drivers. A big percentage of these are drivers coming on to roundabouts when I am already on them.
Glasgow's South City Way sounds great, does it not? As a user from before and after I wholeheartedly welcome the construction of the segregated route, but so much of the detailed construction is poor, if not unsafe. I provide a link to a presentation I made when construction was half complete (a personal view) and the construction errors remain outstanding to this day: crossed by high speed flared road junctions, poor colour differentiation, car door zone risks and so on. And yet cyclists come because they feel safe. It's a complex subject but IMHO the feeling of safety (or lack of) is a critical component. https://drive.proton.me/urls/B67AK44G90#CFueBGjscoWr
I can only conclude that you haven't been into a city in the last few years. Food delivery riders in particular are riding overpowered "eBikes" that are basically mopeds ... powered only via the throttle without pedalling at significantly more than 15mph. Problem is they look like normal bikes/ebikes and not like mopeds so that is what people describe them as. My reading of the article is that it is those vehicles that are being talked about here.
I have the Trace and Tracer, which have essentially the same design, albeit smaller and less powerful. The controls are a little complicated but only because there are loads of options. In reality, once you've chosen your level of brightness, you'll only cycle through 1 or 2 options and it's dead simple. The lights are rock solid, bright, with good runtimes. The only thing I find annoying is charging them - if your fingers are slightly wet or greasy, getting the rubber out of the way of the charging port is a pain in the arse.
Dance and padel is all very well, but when is Strava going to let me record my gardening?
You can use it to check whether it's raining.
If it's dusk, i.e. post-sunset, then the cyclists should have lights on and thus the colour of their top is irrelevant. If you want to complain about cyclists not having lights when it's mandatory then by all means do but their top has nothing to do with it.
All of my Exposure lights with a button allow cycling through the modes with a short press. I have five of those; it would be odd if Exposure didn’t allow this functionality with the Boost 3. I also have two Exposure Burners if I remember correctly: they are rear lights for joysticks that clip on and are powered through the joystick charging port. They don’t have a button. None of my Exposure lights have failed. I looked at the Boost 3 review photos but none showed the button, so far as I could tell. I also have Moon lights. Good experience generally. One did fail, possibly because it was so thin it used to fall through the holes in my helmet onto the ground. Also, the UI and charge indicators vary for my Moon lights. Perhaps the latest ones are more consistent. My worst lights ever were from See.Sense.
23 thoughts on ““Try listening to those who take bikes on trains”: Vertical cycle storage design concept criticised; How bikes on trains should be done; Virgin Galactic admits Branson’s pre-flight bike ride didn’t happen; Expensive fan; Sir Cav? + more on the live blog”
ScotRail seem to have done a
ScotRail seem to have done a good job with their bike carriage design on the Highland line.
https://road.cc/content/news/267921-scotrail-unveils-forthcoming-west-highland-line-carriages-space-20-bikes
There’s a lot of advice out
There’s a lot of advice out there on what makes good bike parking. Bike spaces on a train should follow the exact same principals – just inside a carriage rather than inside (or outside) a building.
I guess this goes without saying, but another major obstacle to taking a bike on a train is the booking process. Every different operator has their own system, and (as far as I can tell) none of those systems are at all good.
This is compounded by the lack of spaces – intercity trains with capacity for hundreds of passengers but only two bike spaces means it is literally impossible for groups of 3+ to all travel together with bikes; and nigh on impossible for one or two people unless booked months in advance. Not to mention if you miss you train (or it is cancelled, or a connecting train is delayed) you’re royally screwed. As a foot passenger, you might have to buy a new ticket but at least you almost certainly can hop on the next train.
The booking process, at least
The booking process, at least, should be rationalised if the Williams Review of UK rail structure is implemented, as the government seems keen to do – it recommends a unified national booking system covering all operators.re
Not to mention, try getting
Not to mention, try getting someone that isn’t particular strong to lift a >20Kg bike up onto one of those things
Just like transport itself,
Just like transport itself, designing for bicycles has a multitude of people with no knowledge, experience or qualifications coming up with genius ideas which fall at the first hurdle. All the comments on that Proteus cycle parking are accurate, and the design has so many drawbacks that it would instantly be discarded in any country where cycling is mainstream.
The fact that it has won and gone through to the next stage means that it will gain more support amongst people who make decisions but don’t cycle, more energy and resources will be thrown into it, and it will become too big to fail; then they will consult with cyclists, when it’s too late. They’ll be installed with fanfares and publicity, and then there will be complaints because the awkward damn cyclists won’t use them. Five years later they’ll be taken out and the space will be just normal seats, and cyclists will be ignored.
There are so many examples of people “doing things for cyclists” without actually consulting cyclists, and then getting upset when they fail that it might be worth writing a book about it. Bridge and road design, cycle parking, routes etc, etc all consulted on when the design is already fixed and it’s too late to change anything.
eburtthebike wrote:
This! My workplace has just completed a major refurb of the offices, including put in place secure offstreet bike parking, modern shower blocks, drying room. However, they have decided that lockers will be for ‘day use’ only, meaning it won’t be possible to leave anything at work overnight/between days in the office, not even somewhere to leave toiletries, shoes etc. So they have basically created a completely unnecessay barrier to cycling. I will be starting a petition as soon as possible when we return to the office next week!
TonyE-H wrote:
This kind of thing happens all teh time. A designer (knowledge worker, creative, yeuch) will put forward a design, and also a list of requirements for the design to be supported.
Someone up teh chain will look at the list, spot something (say, I dunno, overnight lockers) and go “I don’t like that, why is that necessary?” and strike it off. Note the rhetorical question, with no intention of actually asking the one who designed it or included it in requirements.
The designer is in no place to influence the management or implementation, and takes it on trust that their design won’t be made unusable once built, by people who just want to make a decision, any decision.
Those Copenhagen trains are
Those Copenhagen trains are brilliant. When it’s not busy, you can use one of the wheel slots and then sit watching over it. When it gets busy, bikes get packed in like sardines and it ends up being a logistics problem to get out of the door when you reach your station.
I don’t get why bike storage designers don’t just go and ask an experienced cyclist.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Because they want to be able to say “there, cycle box ticked” without actually applying time budget or effort to it….
Actually its more likely “not
Actually its more likely “not invented here syndrome”. I see it all the time in my job. Most people – particularly “knowledge workers” and “creatives” are unable to lay their ego’s aside long enough to check whether someone else might have already solved the problem for them.
Secret_squirrel wrote:
Sounds like we need a ‘StackExchange syndrome’ – just google for a solution and copy/paste it.
In defence of these – and it
In defence of these – and it’s a very half-hearted defence because I agree with everything that has been said – there isn’t really a good solution.
Obviously, a separate carriage with lots of space for bikes is needed – a guards van or something nicer like in Copenhagen. But commuter trains, at least on the main lines into London, are already the maximum length the platforms on the routes allow (and sometimes signalling and even track layout constrain the train length too, which is a harder problem to solve). This makes adding a bike carriage impossible, and replacing a normal carriage with a bike one would be unpopular given how crowded they all are normally.
(Or rather, were before the pandemic. I assume they will go back to previous loadings in the next year or two, If they don’t, then that makes it a lot easier).
So some way of allowing space to be used for commuters in peak hour trains, and bikes off-peak, while not helpful for would-be cycling commuters, does have some benefits.
Guard’s van were great on
Guard’s van were great on Virgin East Coast, back in the good old days. Popular, always several bikes, helpful staff. I see so many bikes not fitting whateve fancy designs they try.
How do the designs meet disability rules? Some cyclists cannot walk well.
In the good old-old days, you
In the good old-old days, you could even get a motorbike onboard with no fuss…
https://youtu.be/pKwLVPqy3io?t=1248
After over 40 years of car
After over 40 years of car ownership, my wife and I took the decision last year to go car-less. Our daily transport is a tandem or our solo bikes, plus a cargo bike for shopping. This means that to cover large distances in a day we will need to use trains. The system in the UK is hopeless. Different service providers with different policies, some you can book with, others you can’t. Want to take a tandem? Forget it. We’re getting a frame made with couplings so at least we can split it in two which will make it more feasible on some services, and enable us to hire a car if necessary and put it the back. Train and bike is the perfect combination, bike for the short local journey and train for the long distances. It was simple when we had guard’s vans. Privatisation of the railways has been a disaster with profit being the number one priority which has only served to encourage more car usage where less profitable services have been removed. We need to see transport as necessary service, such as water, sewage treatment and electricity and have some joined up thinking as to how it can be provided for all, not just those who can afford a car or who don’t give a toss about the climate emergency.
I almost missed my stop cos I
I almost missed my stop cos I couldn’t get my tyres out of GWR’s stupidly small bike hooks. Had to let the tyre down. My heart has rarely raced so fast. All whilst the conducter glared at me as if it was my fault.
Just a normal mountain bike! I wasn’t even on my big bike with 2.5″s on fat carbon rims. Absolutely sick of feeling like a third class passenger for daring to using a bike to complete my journeys. The highland train looks pretty good, but of course they already worked this stuff out in europe years ago. Love that copenhagen train.
chunky wrote:
How did you manage to get the bike hooked, if you had to let the tyres down to unhook it?
By smacking it in with my
By smacking it in with my fist. I was trying to be a good boy and securely store it. Well done GWR, I won’t be doing that next time.
Ha! Clearly GWR thinks every
Ha! Clearly GWR thinks every one of those lycra clad Chris Froome wannabes rides a 20mm tyre at 300psi… Or something like that
Highland bike carriages – a
Highland bike carriages – a bizzillion ton carriage for 100kg worth of bikes. Really?
You’re saying the bikes ought
You’re saying the bikes ought to weigh more? Because…?
I used the Cross Country bike
I used the Cross Country bike storage option recently, and it was fine. Don’t book your ticket without first booking a space for your bike using their messenger chat, it only takes 5 minutes and you will be given a reference. Else you may find you cannot board the train with bike. The storage was fine but bring a small bungee to tie it against grab rail else it will swing wildly in its vertical position. The provided straps are a faff to reach once the bike is on the hook.
I vote the Copenhagen option, that looks perfect. The Proteus is ridiculously unworkable.
Muddy Ford wrote:
Only takes five minutes? Are they writing it down in longhand using block capitals and a crayon? Should be fully automatic and take five seconds max.