Live blog: Trying to take a very expensive bike on a GWR train is hard work; Torq's "extra messy" Brexit Bars; Cavendish signs for Bahrain Merida; Froome, Fuglsang and Bardet recce Japan Olympics course + more

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

This was the best I've had train wise but is all too rare, not sure on what type of actual train as they vary massively on the regional lines but was one of the Northern rail stock in July going from Sheffield to Bridlington via Doncaster & Hull.

I've NEVER had a normal non fold down seat next to a bike space in almost 30 years of using the trains and never had such an easy access/egress due to not having to jam it into a space that clearly was less than a second thought on bike design and security! But still, there's a resuss unit with a no putting baggage in front sign, yet it's a designated bike space, the mind just boggles with the people who do this kind of stuff!

Those wheel benders are the devils spawn but have used them when I'm actually sat holding the bike so it's not going to move but otherwise they are worse than useless. And yes, also encountered the luggage people who are too lazy to put it into the luggage compartment, my resolution is to just shout into the carriage that whose ever luggage it is could they kindly move it into the appropriate space or I'll move it for them, only had to move bags once so not that common a problem, also told the train manager regarding the problem when it arises - they don't call them conductors anymore, not for a long time from what I was told.

 

That's a refurbished Class 170 (ex Scotrail) and has at least 4 bike spaces* (2 at each end) thanks to Transport Scotland (the DfT for the Scottish Government, which is run from the Scottish Parliament - which governs most functions of an independent Scotland (including NHS, Land Access, etc)  

* the second space has dumped the stupid & ridiculously expensive Calyx bike rack , and has over 2.0m of clear space, AND a wider opening to the door vestibule.  With good packing tamdems will fit bit spaces, and 3-4 bikes too, plus a safety case, developed for GWR/Scotrail and other trains with no bike spaces, that 2 bikes per (double) doorway on the side opposite to the platform, provided that the user stays with the bikes. This is generally for local trains, short journeys, no seat reservations etc. Using this - for a managed operation a 3-car Class 170 can carry 16 bikes for say a group bike ride outside peak times.

Happy to work with/for local projects delivering cycling WITH rail and bus services - reach me through RoadCC or Cycling UK

Bmblbzzz wrote:

Our intrepid bike and train correspondent has misunderstood when he says GWR does not require reservations on local services. This actually refers to the type of train (rolling stock) not the distance travelled. Reservations are required for all journeys on the new! shiny! fast! electric (except when running on diesel)! IETs, even just from Bristol to Bath. On the (generally smaller) trains, which have bike accommodation consisting of either tip-up seating or wheelbenders in the corridor, reservations are not required even if travelling from Bristol to Didcot or, say, Exeter to Worcester (which would require at least two, probably three, trains, but is doable by small trains all the way if not in a hurry).

This is why trains are rubbish. Who is supposed to know all this?!

David Arthur @davearthur wrote:

This is why trains are rubbish. Who is supposed to know all this?!

Especially as its nigh impossible to look up the type of train beforehand online.

Secret_squirrel wrote:

David Arthur @davearthur wrote:

This is why trains are rubbish. Who is supposed to know all this?!

 

Especially as its nigh impossible to look up the type of train beforehand online.

Well my simple rule of thumb would be anything that ends up in London going from Bristol,isnt going to be considered a 'local service', so just avoid those trains.

Jack Sexty wrote:

Bmblbzzz wrote:

Our intrepid bike and train correspondent has misunderstood when he says GWR does not require reservations on local services. This actually refers to the type of train (rolling stock) not the distance travelled. Reservations are required for all journeys on the new! shiny! fast! electric (except when running on diesel)! IETs, even just from Bristol to Bath. On the (generally smaller) trains, which have bike accommodation consisting of either tip-up seating or wheelbenders in the corridor, reservations are not required even if travelling from Bristol to Didcot or, say, Exeter to Worcester (which would require at least two, probably three, trains, but is doable by small trains all the way if not in a hurry).

I haven't misunderstood, they've just chosen not to tell me surely? When I tried to book it on, the app just said no without explanation.

Not quite right.

1) you can only reserve a bike space on a train that has seat reservations. This is a fudge to deliver the service without having a massively expensive job on the rather old National Rail ticket sales system, which pre-dates (ie written in base code!) the modern ability to add and patch software.

2) bike spaces are virtual seats, in an imaginary coach X, which are allocated to a journey ticket ... in an illegal transaction, as the system is set out to only allow ONE seat reservation per ticket/trip. Hence some staff/call centres struggle where they are not trained/frequently making bike reservations. (and there us no % payment for doing this for independent resellers like Trainline)

NB there could be a way that bike spaces, wheelchair spaces, and even passenger loading details for every train COULD be provided, linked to the every train's unique identity, tracked through the railway's own systems (TRUST) and fed out with the Customer Information System (CIS) feed  (DARWIN - currently v.16, or a successor in development). This system is available as open data to licensed developers (IT-nerds) who are already delivering very useful apps like Real Time Trains, and Open Train Times (Watch that space?)

3) no seat reservation for part of journey = no bike reservation & similar algorithm I suspect for local journeys even where the trains have seat reservations. Split the bike reservations, and suddenly spaces appear!

We 'tested' the IEP mock up in 2014 with #CyclingUK members and various bikes, and have a current project with LNER and Hitachi to sort issues out on their Azuma fleet, noting that the interior layout and arrangements for Agility Trains (Hitachi with Bankers) to supply a contracted number of trains for service every day, was largely specified by DfT.  This is unravelling rather badly as the trains are now having to operate in the real world where flexibility is required, rather than with a rigid fixed (maximum) seating specification.

Between 2014 and 2019 we made comments on the design, although it was very much a Blue Peter consultation, as the basic design was pretty much not for changing. We asked for that *??1* fold-down bar to get taken out (this was refused) as this really gets in the way - even for bikes that can be hooked in.

However it seems to be that a design change, made AFTER we tested the bike module with a variety of bikes (including a tandem, a recumbent, and a sit up and beg Raleigh) - the easy to load design was replaced with a hideous and totally unnecessary hook.

@jacksexty please e-mail me (or #CyclingUK) with your photos - to add to out portfolio on IEP woes. See also the albums on my A V Lowe Flickr account covering the abominations which have been delivered for the IEP, Scotrail Class 156, Scotrail HST's (IC7), CrossCountry and Virgin WC Voyagers, an the new Caledonian Sleeper.  This is a topic on the agendas  of the All Party Parliamentary Cycling Group (#APPCG), and the Cycle Rail Working Group (#CRWG)

Happy to work with/for those progresssing cycling WITH rail and bus services just contact me direct

Picture = easy to load - 2014 design of IEP 'hooks'
 

A V Lowe wrote:

 

Picture = easy to load - 2014 design of IEP 'hooks'
 

I suspect even those hooks may struggle to fit around aero rims or x-large tyres. Surely a couple of pieces of velcro would be far more flexible (literally) although they may need replacing every so often. The other alternative would be to allow the metal hooks to pivot.

hawkinspeter wrote:

A V Lowe wrote:

 

Picture = easy to load - 2014 design of IEP 'hooks'
 

 

I suspect even those hooks may struggle to fit around aero rims or x-large tyres. Surely a couple of pieces of velcro would be far more flexible (literally) although they may need replacing every so often. The other alternative would be to allow the metal hooks to pivot.

A system with this design has been used, and works for almost every type of cycle (including tandems & most trikes), both vertically and near horiziontal, on trains, trams, and buses, for over 30 years - it also uses the weight of the cycle to hold it square to the bracket, and not swing around, with both tyres pressed against the wall/floor.  

Despite my efforts to persuade rail industry to use this proven system, they screw it up by designing something new every time!

My only successes putting slots in the panel behind seats next to bike space =  extra 6" & holds wheel at 2 points plus 5 tip up seats as 'standard' bike space on new Scotrail electrics 380 & 385 with wider access gap  = 4 bikes (also a tandem will fit)

Jack Sexty wrote:

Bmblbzzz wrote:

Our intrepid bike and train correspondent has misunderstood when he says GWR does not require reservations on local services. This actually refers to the type of train (rolling stock) not the distance travelled. Reservations are required for all journeys on the new! shiny! fast! electric (except when running on diesel)! IETs, even just from Bristol to Bath. On the (generally smaller) trains, which have bike accommodation consisting of either tip-up seating or wheelbenders in the corridor, reservations are not required even if travelling from Bristol to Didcot or, say, Exeter to Worcester (which would require at least two, probably three, trains, but is doable by small trains all the way if not in a hurry).

I haven't misunderstood, they've just chosen not to tell me surely? When I tried to book it on, the app just said no without explanation.

That's all too believable. I've avoided booing spaces on the app since some time before the IETs were introduced. Not that face to face humans in big stations always get it right but they can at least explain things.

jasecd wrote:

Good to see Cav beating top class opposition again. Doing it on the road next year is a different proposition but here's hoping,...

... indeed, but maybe that was putting a marker down saying "2020 Madison...." ?

jasecd wrote:

Good to see Cav beating top class opposition again. Doing it on the road next year is a different proposition but here's hoping,...

Agree that it's a little different on the track,  but the confidence of performing well, and the fact that it should help inspire team mates to work for him could be an added bonus. Cav seems to have more speed enurance than in the past (a part of getting older perhaps) a slightly lower top speed but he seems to be able to keep it going for a long time.

The Madison at the olympics really could be an exciting event with some of the riders that may well be targetting it