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Queensferry Road, Edinburgh, “apalling” bike lane (@livia_edin/Twitter)
Queensferry Road, Edinburgh, "appalling" bike lane (Image Credit: @livia_edin/Twitter)

“World class cycling city”: Cyclists urge council to clear “appalling” bike lane filled with gravel and leaves; Has Chris Froome found a solution to the supertuck ban?; Pothole warnings; Meltdown over free lights for cyclists + more on the live blog

It’s the Wednesday live blog and Dan Alexander is in the hot seat ready to bring you everything you need to know (and plenty you don’t) from the world of cycling
  • by Dan Alexander
Wed, Dec 13, 2023 09:15
56

SUMMARY

  • Motorist meltdown over police force handing out free lights to cycling commuters
  • Pothole repair requirements "clearly inadequate for keeping cyclists safe", campaign warns
  • If anyone reading this just so happens to be looking to buy me a Christmas present
  • Fancy a Tour de France winner's bike for Christmas? Jumbo-Visma auction off Cervélo team bikes
  • An annual tradition: Jo uploads feature on what not to buy a cyclist for Christmas, you lot tell us the items included that you'd actually quite like
  • Care company turns to bikes to beat railway station roadwork congestion – and gets a pleasant surprise
  • Fancy a spot at Chris Froome's bike fit workshop? An innovative way around the supertuck ban?
  • Scottish Government urged to spend more on public transport and less on cycling
  • Laura Kenny speaks out about impact of professional athlete lifestyle on pregnancy
  • Why the Raleigh Chopper was and still is the best Christmas gift for kids everywhere
  • 5 winter training tips for your best year of cycling ever!
  • "World class cycling city": Cyclists urge council to clear "appalling" bike lane filled with gravel and leaves
Queensferry Road, Edinburgh, “apalling” bike lane (@livia_edin/Twitter)
Queensferry Road, Edinburgh, "appalling" bike lane (Image Credit: @livia_edin/Twitter)
13 December 2023, 09:15

Motorist meltdown over police force handing out free lights to cycling commuters

Police officers in the City of London have teamed up with Halfords (hopefully on a better job than Monday’s live blog) to hand out free lights and “adivce” to commuting cyclists on “cycle safety”. As part of the ‘Lighting up campaign’, “we are issuing sets of lights for cyclists that need it with advice around cycle safety,” the force said on social media…

Cycle Sqaud have started our “Lighting up campaign”. We are issuing sets of lights for cyclists that need it with advice around cycle safety. Working with some of our partners Halfords and the City of London Road Safety Team @Halfords_uk @cityoflondon PS 10 Ford pic.twitter.com/QyhyAfrlOs

— City Police Officers (@CityPoliceCops) December 11, 2023

This one’s a strong case study for something, anything, fairly mundane blowing up in a firestorm of angry comments because… well, it involves cyclists. Cue queues of people unable to scroll on with their day without either asking for free tyres/bulbs for their vehicles, or demanding stronger action to tackle the unchecked terror on the roads (being caused by people on bicycles, of course)…

Cycling lawyer Rory McCarron said there is an “irony” to the comments, “that people cycling without lights don’t cause them to cycle into things/people but driving with bald tyres is likely to cause them to lose control and collide with someone/thing.”

Exhibit A and B:

My cab’s got a side light out, I’ll be by shortly

— John (@7oakscabbie) December 12, 2023

If I drive around on bald tyres, do I get a free set from the police?

— Adam Jones (@Adamj087) December 12, 2023

The next type of commonly spotted response involved those wanting fines and lights paid for, not freebies… (even though it seems all these were on Halfords)…

Exhibit C and D:

Jesus Christ these people are buying bike worth £100’s or pounds and you’re giving them free lights . Fine them not reward them .

— Mart (@MartCAFC45) December 12, 2023

Why waste police budget on giving lights to cyclists that should have them already

— Paul f (@paulf40) December 11, 2023

Finally, came the bingo card favourite, completely unrelated demands for cyclists to be told to not ride on pavements through red lights. Thank you Sandra, knew you wouldn’t let us down on this front.

Exhibit E and F:

Can you teach them to stop at red lights also and not cycle on pavements?

— Sandra Dibble (@Dibbssa) December 11, 2023

13 December 2023, 09:15

Pothole repair requirements "clearly inadequate for keeping cyclists safe", campaign warns

Pothole (Simon Kroner/Facebook)
Facebook) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Pothole (Simon Kroner/Facebook)
Facebook) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

Cam Cycle, the Cambridge Cycling Campaign, has penned a warning on its website, calling for Cambridgeshire County Council to “change the criteria for pothole repair and road maintenance to tackle the issues that cause danger to people walking and cycling”.

In short, the group wants to seen routes prioritised for repair “based on the cycling network and the routes with the highest volumes of cycle traffic” and reducing the threshold for pothole repair to include shallower and smaller defects.

“With the highest rates of cycling in the country, it is vital that our region leads the way in prioritising active travel users in road maintenance policies,” Cam Cycle states. The current approach to maintenance is based on mitigating damage to cars; however, the county is failing to keep up with maintenance to this standard.”

Thoughts?

13 December 2023, 09:15

If anyone reading this just so happens to be looking to buy me a Christmas present

2022 Tadej Pogacar Colnago TT1 bike.room - 3.jpeg
2022 Tadej Pogacar Colnago TT1 bike.room - 3 (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
2022 Tadej Pogacar Colnago TT1 bike.room - 3.jpeg
2022 Tadej Pogacar Colnago TT1 bike.room – 3 (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

> You can buy Tadej Pogačar’s official UAE Team Emirates Colnago race bike

Just a little stocking-filler…

13 December 2023, 09:15

Fancy a Tour de France winner's bike for Christmas? Jumbo-Visma auction off Cervélo team bikes

Jumbo-Visma Tour de France (Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com)
SWpix (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Jumbo-Visma Tour de France (Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com)
SWpix (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

[Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com]

Jumbo-Visma are running an auction for “the race bikes that shaped cycling history”, giving punters (with a fair bit of cash) the opportunity to bid for the Cervélo bikes ridden by Jonas Vingegaard, Wout van Aert and the team’s other stars at this year’s Tour de France. Yellow jersey-winning Vingegaard’s Cervélo S5, race used en route to a second victory, is currently up to €15,022, while Wout van Aert’s Tour steed is at €9,514.

The cheapest options — Tiesj Benoot and Wilco Kelderman’s Cervélos — are both still already at €5,162 with three days left. 

Check out the full list of bikes here…

13 December 2023, 09:15

An annual tradition: Jo uploads feature on what not to buy a cyclist for Christmas, you lot tell us the items included that you'd actually quite like

Gifts not to buy for cyclists Dec 2023
Gifts not to buy for cyclists Dec 2023 (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Gifts not to buy for cyclists Dec 2023
Gifts not to buy for cyclists Dec 2023 (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

> All I want for Christmas is… not this. Gifts not to buy for cyclists to avoid a festive faux pas

And here we go…

paulrattew: “The Park Tool pizza cutter is a quality bit of kit! Not just the best cycling-themed pizza cutter out there, but easily the best of that sort of pizza cutter that I have used. Ok, you do only ever need one, so seeing it repeatedly as a gift would be rubbish, but if you don’t have one already then it is a quality gift.”

Matthew Acton-Varian: “Personally I wouldn’t mind ‘old bike bits’ trinkets […] As long as the items are clean and the finish is in good enough condition, if done tactfully, repurposing old junk has a certain charm to it.”

Rendel Harris: “I must admit I rather like the bicycle bow tie and I’d be happy to wear it on the rare occasions I wear a dinner suit these days.”

Have a read, who knows… maybe you’ll find something you quite like…

13 December 2023, 09:15

Care company turns to bikes to beat railway station roadwork congestion – and gets a pleasant surprise

Botley Road Bridge (picture credit Network Rail)
Botley Road Bridge (picture credit Network Rail) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Botley Road Bridge (picture credit Network Rail)
Botley Road Bridge (picture credit Network Rail) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

> Care company turns to bikes to beat railway station roadwork congestion – and gets a pleasant surprise

13 December 2023, 09:15

Fancy a spot at Chris Froome's bike fit workshop? An innovative way around the supertuck ban?

Froome and Neilands video (Instagram)
Froome and Neilands video (Instagram) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Froome and Neilands video (Instagram)
Froome and Neilands video (Instagram) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

Or in full…

pic.twitter.com/helTHkLoGS

— Cycling out of context (@OutOfCycling) December 13, 2023

Teaching the team how to get more aero. Forgive us if we’ve misremembered but, if the four-time Tour winner is giving out position tips, Neilands’ set-up looks slightly different from Froome’s Sky/Ineos position. Yep, that one he recently said he’d been well off since joining Israel-Premier Tech…

> Not so marginal losses: Chris Froome reveals recent bike set-up was “centimetres” apart from Team Sky days due to “oversight”

13 December 2023, 09:15

Scottish Government urged to spend more on public transport and less on cycling

Scottish Parliament Bike Stands (copyright Simon MacMichael).jpg
Scottish Parliament Bike Stands (copyright Simon MacMichael) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Scottish Parliament Bike Stands (copyright Simon MacMichael).jpg
Scottish Parliament Bike Stands (copyright Simon MacMichael) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

> Scottish Government urged to spend more on public transport and less on cycling

13 December 2023, 09:15

Laura Kenny speaks out about impact of professional athlete lifestyle on pregnancy

Laura Kenny (Pauline Ballet/SWpix.com)
SWpix (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Laura Kenny (Pauline Ballet/SWpix.com)
SWpix (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

[Pauline Ballet/SWpix.com]

Laura Kenny is targeting a fourth Olympic Games next summer in Paris, an opportunity to build on her five gold medals and one silver. However, the topic of discussion in her latest interview, with BBC 5 Live, was not next year’s shot at overtaking the trio of cyclists ahead of her in the list of Britain’s most successful Olympians (husband Sir Jason Kenny, Sir Chris Hoy and Sir Bradley Wiggins, for anyone taking on the quiz question), but instead pregnancy and the impact being an athlete can have.

Kenny had her first child Albie in 2017, their second arriving in July of this year. However, in November 2021 Kenny suffered a miscarriage and two months later an ectopic pregnancy. Raising awareness of Red-S — a condition which Kenny does not have, but which sees women lose their periods, sometimes experienced by female athletes who may expend more energy in training than can be consumed through their diet — Kenny said she has had “many conversations” with fellow sportswomen who suffer with Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport.

“There are females that have struggled and will struggle to get pregnant because of the lifestyle of being an athlete,” she said. “We’ve all heard of Red-S — being females losing their periods. You’re not going to be able to fall pregnant if you haven’t got a period.

“It’s actually a really unhealthy lifestyle that these females can’t have kids and it’s actually really sad. I’ve always consistently had a period but the amount of conversations I’ve heard of people having Red-S. Red-S is actually really dangerous… these people are giving up lots of things that really deep down they want.”

Speaking about her own situation, Kenny said: “I think I realised that when we had the miscarriage and the ectopic, I knew deep down that it would be one hell of a comeback [to return to cycling], obviously delaying it because I still wanted to have another baby.

“I knew that time would be short before the next Olympics and it wasn’t about this big fairytale it was about what my heart so desperately wanted and it was to have him. I just wanted another one. It consumed me for a long time because I felt that sense of one, loss and two, this missing piece.”

13 December 2023, 09:15

Why the Raleigh Chopper was and still is the best Christmas gift for kids everywhere

2023 raleigh chopper 1
2023 raleigh chopper 1 (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
2023 raleigh chopper 1
2023 raleigh chopper 1 (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

> Why the Raleigh Chopper was and still is the best Christmas gift for kids everywhere

13 December 2023, 09:15

5 winter training tips for your best year of cycling ever!

> 5 winter training tips for your best year of cycling ever!

13 December 2023, 09:15

"World class cycling city": Cyclists urge council to clear "appalling" bike lane filled with gravel and leaves

Death, taxes and dodgy British bike lanes making an appearance on the live blog. We really do have too much material not to make it a regular feature, today’s coming from the Scottish capital of Edinburgh where local riders have urged the city council to pull its finger out and clear the cycle lane on Queensferry Road…

Queensferry Road, Edinburgh, "apalling" bike lane (@livia_edin/Twitter)
Twitter) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Queensferry Road, Edinburgh, "apalling" bike lane (@livia_edin/Twitter)
Twitter) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

The person who shared the post, @livia_edin on Twitter (sorry, Elon, still not calling it X — stubborn and immature, I know), said the damage is the result of works to fill potholes which has left plenty of gravel on the road and cycle path, debris which has now formed a sludgy soup with fallen leaves. 

Cycling Edinburgh called the situation “pretty appalling” and asked: “Is this the best CEC (City of Edinburgh Council) and its contractors can do with resurfacing and clean-ups?”

World class cycling city https://t.co/WROVqeRWPf pic.twitter.com/4MZjwF7jyc

— Dave McCraw (@david_mccraw) December 13, 2023

The Edinburgh Council customer service page said it had “raised this matter with the relevant team and asked them to action”, so we’ll see if anything comes… 

Other personal favourites of the genre include:

Leaves
Leaves (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Leaves
Leaves (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

> Unbe-leaf-able: cycle lane used to collect fallen leaves

Hampton Court cycle lane (via Twitter)
Hampton Court cycle lane (via Twitter) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Hampton Court cycle lane (via Twitter)
Hampton Court cycle lane (via Twitter) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

> Festive ice rink or triathlon lane? Good luck riding in this bike lane

Makes you proud to be British, doesn’t it?

13 December 2023, 09:15

Campagnolo Super Record Wireless

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Dan Alexander
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Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too. Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he’s not working you’ll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he’ll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he’s a bit strange like that.  

56 Comments

56 thoughts on ““World class cycling city”: Cyclists urge council to clear “appalling” bike lane filled with gravel and leaves; Has Chris Froome found a solution to the supertuck ban?; Pothole warnings; Meltdown over free lights for cyclists + more on the live blog”

  1. Car Delenda Est
    December 13, 2023 at 9:35 am
    0

    I will never not be delighted
    I will never not be delighted by anti-cycling motorists getting distraught over cyclists getting a minute subsidy.

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    • webbierwrex
      December 13, 2023 at 9:44 am
      0

      I’d be very happy for the

      I’d be very happy for the police to follow this course with motorists.

      “You were caught speeding so i’m just going to fix this speed restrictor for free”

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      • Matthew Acton-Varian
        December 13, 2023 at 1:13 pm
        0

        If a vehicle has a valid MOT

        If a vehicle has a valid MOT certificate the speedometer should read correct within the tolerances stated by DfT regulations. Operator fault, 100% should be punised in accordance with the law. The driver has burden of proof to prove both the discrepancy between actual speed and speedo reading, and that could also open up investigations into the Test centre if they might have fraudulently issued a certificate. Even if that was the case, the driver could still be held partly criminally liable if they knew the test centre issued the certificate fraudulently.

        Quite often, they do offer advice, or ignore completely if a car has a single bulb not working, as opposed to issuing a fine straight away.

        I have been pulled over once, on my way to buy a replacement bulb. I told them I noticed it that morning and that I was on my way to get a new bulb because the ones I had were the wrong type. They sent me on my way, I got my light fixed and no issues whatsoever.

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    • ChrisB200SX
      December 13, 2023 at 9:49 am
      0

      It’s not even a subsidy, it’s

      It’s not even a subsidy, it’s helping them “be safer” given that it’s the motoring lobby that insist that cyclists should have them because some drivers don’t use their eyes properly.
      It’s not dangerous to ride a bike without lights, just like going out for a jog without lights, if you cannot see well enough, just slow down a bit.

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      • Patrick9-32
        December 13, 2023 at 10:20 am
        0

        This is such a critical point

        This is such a critical point missed by so many drivers! If you are not able to stop in the time between seeing something the size of a human in the road and hitting it you are driving too fast for the conditions. There are sometimes things in the road that shouldn’t be there, assuming the road to be clear and driving at speeds where you are unable to react to issues is ridiculously dangerous, blaming that dangerous driving on the thing you hit instead of your own actions is entitlement not often seen outside of a car. 

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      • GMBasix
        December 13, 2023 at 10:27 am
        0

        ChrisB200SX wrote:

        It’s not even a subsidy, it’s helping them “be safer” given that it’s the motoring lobby that insist that cyclists should have them because some drivers don’t use their eyes properly.
        It’s not dangerous to ride a bike without lights, just like going out for a jog without lights, if you cannot see well enough, just slow down a bit.

        — ChrisB200SX

        This.

        I lose count of the number of people who tell me that cyclists and pedestrians are invisible in the dark.

        “No, they’re not; you just have to look”

        “What?! What about when they appear in front of you?”

        “They don’t just ‘appear’; they were there all along. If you can’t see them, you’re not looking in the right places.”

        “What about when you come round the bend and they’re just there in the road?”

        “You should be travelling at a speed where you can stop in the distance you know to be clear; not driving at the speed limit and hoping nothing’s beyond the reach of your headlights.”

        “What speed do you think I would have to slow down to to do that?!”

        It’s the earnestness with which motornormativity conditions the driving brain into thinking that everything must be subservient to their right to travel at speed.

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        • stonojnr
          December 13, 2023 at 12:51 pm
          0

          You can ride expecting
          You can ride expecting everyone to drive travelling at a speed where they can stop in the distance you know to be clear

          Or you can ride expecting it to be more like in the drivers crash into buildings thread, or the drivers frequently killing injuring cyclists news articles.

          It’s your choice, even if riding without lights at night is against the law, its still your choice, but it might be the last choice you ever take.

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          • marmotte27
            December 13, 2023 at 1:37 pm
            0

            You may be a cyclist, through
            You may be a cyclist, through your attitude you’re still part of the problem.

          • stonojnr
            December 13, 2023 at 7:24 pm
            0

            yeah Im part of the problem,

            yeah Im part of the problem, for pointing out the emperor has no new clothes.

            we’re constantly reminded how vulnerable cyclists are on the roads, and that alot of drivers dont follow the rules. so why encourage people to be at extra risk cycling without lights at night, simply expecting drivers to follow their rules, yet its breaking the rules not to ride without lights at night?

            maybe if youd been witness to a collision between a 4×4 and a cyclist at night, and for all the world expected to be faced dealing with a fatal collision, and the first thing the driver says to you as the only other witness who stopped, I didnt see them they didnt have any lights.

            youd have more of the using lights at night as a cyclist, is probably a good thing mindset.

            fortunately that cyclist survived, albeit with life changing injuries, and as the only other witness I was able to quash the “they didnt have any lights” excuse, others may not be so fortunate if similar circumstances befell on them.

          • GMBasix
            December 13, 2023 at 4:44 pm
            0

            stonojnr wrote:

            You can ride expecting everyone to drive travelling at a speed where they can stop in the distance you know to be clear Or you can ride expecting it to be more like in the drivers crash into buildings thread, or the drivers frequently killing injuring cyclists news articles. It’s your choice, even if riding without lights at night is against the law, its still your choice, but it might be the last choice you ever take.

            — stonojnr

            Or you can miss the point of the post altogether.

          • stonojnr
            December 13, 2023 at 7:26 pm
            0

            for what, bringing the cold

            for what, bringing the cold harsh reality of life into this perfect world where all drivers travel at a speed they can stop in the distance they know to be clear ?

            look around & observe more next time you ride in the real world.

          • Hirsute
            December 14, 2023 at 1:58 pm
            0

            I have been waiting at lights

            I have been waiting at lights to move off and find a cyclist in black with no lights has made a right turn into my lane as I’m about to turn left. Only jsut picked them out at the last second as the glare from the over bright beams from behind them obscured my sight.

            Over bright lights even in a car, can mean people ahead with no lights and dark clothes can be very hard to spot. There has to be some degree of responsibility on all road users.

      • chrisonabike
        December 13, 2023 at 11:21 am
        0

        I used to agree with this

        I used to agree with this without reservation.  Now… partly.  Yes, it’s on the drivers* but in human terms (if we’re going to continue “mass motoring” e.g. not just elite drivers [ yes – this should be “standard careful legal driving” but that is not so common…] – so older drivers, distracted parents, people using glasses etc.) it is indeed difficult to see pedestrians and cyclists well when driving in the dark.

        This affects cyclists most because they are normally on the road (pedestrians – intermittently) and normally moving parallel to motor vehicles (so little relative motion for human brains to detect).

        Mostly for me it’s just another example of “why we need much more carefully designed infra where we have large / fast motorised vehicles” **.

        In terms of being seen for cyclists / pedestrians arguably reflective material – especially on moving parts of your body e.g. arms / legs – is the most effective / least cost to user to mitigate things here.

        * The rules do indeed state (although not with a specific MUST) e.g. “Rule 126. Stopping distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.”

        …and it’s definitely for our own benefit while driving at night to be able to see and stop before hitting e.g. a black-coloured parked car or an unlit tree that has fallen in the road or just that a country road sharply changes direction up ahead.

        ** Rant: space for cycling should be completely separate where those vehicles will be travelling at above e.g. 20mph – and of course separate from the footway!  Also how we design crossing points and junctions needs to be nationally standardised and merits careful attention to very specific details – also main road crossings for all etc.

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  2. bigwheeler88
    December 13, 2023 at 10:19 am
    0

    Taxi drivers are upset about
    Taxi drivers are upset about cyclists getting lights because it’s one less thing they can use in their defence when they murder someone with their distracted driving.

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  3. EK Spinner
    December 13, 2023 at 11:10 am
    0

    I kind of get the anger on

    I kind of get the anger on the lights, idiots are choosing to deliberatly ride without lights, this is not an oversite, this is a deliberate decision to flout the law, yet the law enforcers are kindly correcting this for them, some folk will leave them on the bike, others will forget to charge them or replace the batteries, some will even remove them and deliberatly flout the law once again. It does seem a little strange

    A missing light on  car for instance is fitted but broken, and a poor driver will be unaware they will potentially be fined – though in most cases spoken to and told to get it fixed. If a driver has removed the lights from a car and drives on the road then they are likely to get charged with something.

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    • Patrick9-32
      December 13, 2023 at 11:26 am
      0

      Here we go again with the

      Here we go again with the false driver and cyclist equivalence. 

      A cyclist without lights is putting themselves at risk.

      A driver who’s vehicle isn’t safe is putting others at risk. 

      They are not the same thing. 

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      • tigersnapper
        December 13, 2023 at 11:40 am
        0

        It’s not an equivalence thing

        It’s not an equivalence thing, it’s simply breaking the law.  If we expect drivers to obey the HC and obey the laws we must hold cyclists (and all other road users) to the same standards.

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        • hawkinspeter
          December 13, 2023 at 12:20 pm
          0

          tigersnapper wrote:

          It’s not an equivalence thing, it’s simply breaking the law.  If we expect drivers to obey the HC and obey the laws we must hold cyclists (and all other road users) to the same standards.

          — tigersnapper

          You literally just made it into an “equivalence thing” and expect to hold cyclists to the same standards as drivers.

          Drivers have to be held to a more stringent standard due to the extreme danger they pose to other people (and walls, shop-fronts etc) and that is why drivers need to pass a test (or at least be supervised by a trained driver) before being allowed to drive on public roads. We don’t hold cyclists to that same standard because that would be stupid and not at all proportionate to the harm that cyclists can cause to other people.

          However, police will often not care about minor driving infractions (e.g. crossing a solid white line whilst overtaking) and so it would seem consistent for them to not worry about handing out fines etc. for cyclists who don’t have working lights and handing out a few freebies may well be a cost effective way of dealing with the problem.

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          • marmotte27
            December 13, 2023 at 12:52 pm
            0

            Yeah, but you suppose
            Yeah, but you suppose @tigersnapper to not (deliberately) ignore that the highway code only exists because of motorists. Cyclists were around and fine for 70 years beforehand…

          • CyclingGardener
            December 13, 2023 at 1:36 pm
            0

            And the ‘equivalence thing’
            And the ‘equivalence thing’ is now a major part of the problem.
            I read somewhere that, when compulsory rear lights for bikes were first proposed, the CTC campaigned strenuously against the idea, on the grounds that it was the thin edge of a long wedge. Since then, although we’ve never quite reached the point some ‘loopy’ folk would like, with full reg, MOT etc., it could be argued that even the relatively small number of regs encourage a view of cyclists as slow/inferior motorcars rather than mechanically enhanced pedestrians. Which might explain some of the hostility and/or misunderstanding from some quarters.

          • hawkinspeter
            December 13, 2023 at 2:00 pm
            0

            CyclingGardener wrote:

            And the ‘equivalence thing’ is now a major part of the problem. I read somewhere that, when compulsory rear lights for bikes were first proposed, the CTC campaigned strenuously against the idea, on the grounds that it was the thin edge of a long wedge. Since then, although we’ve never quite reached the point some ‘loopy’ folk would like, with full reg, MOT etc., it could be argued that even the relatively small number of regs encourage a view of cyclists as slow/inferior motorcars rather than mechanically enhanced pedestrians. Which might explain some of the hostility and/or misunderstanding from some quarters.

            — CyclingGardener

            I think the case for bike lights is a lot stronger these days, now that we have extremely bright, efficient, lightweight and cheap LED lights. Certainly, the old Ever Ready (they were seldom “ready”) lights were a pox upon cyclists.

          • chrisonabike
            December 13, 2023 at 2:31 pm
            0

            Yes… but what’s happened is

            Yes… but what’s happened is a light arms-race.  Great for me to *see* by, but for being seen?  I’m not convinced that brighter is all that much better.  It might fix “there’s something out there”.  However a) individual bike lights have a very small area of light compared to those on a vehicle and b) unlike a motor vehicle almost no cycles have a pair separated by some distance horizontally – which in motor vehicles can help estimate distance / speed.  So you’ve got the astronomer’s problem – is that a larger/brighter light far away or a smaller/dimmer light up close?

            Flashing lights can also be more salient – but are harder to identify “where exactly?”  In a better world they’d be best left for emergency vehicles IMHO.

            Also (a) means that the lights are more likely to dazzle than vehicle lights and again most cycles aren’t dipped (because we want “full beam” sometimes and the lights are not set up to be dipped easily).

            End state is that everyone on the road is wearing reflectives, hi-vis, flashing big lumens … and you can’t clearly see them amongst all the other road users doing the same.

            I don’t miss the Ever Ready lights though!

          • NotNigel
            December 13, 2023 at 3:18 pm
            0

            The twitchiest part of my

            The twitchiest part of my commute home is a 500m section of road with no street lighting, fields both sides and motorists coming in the opposite direction with their stupidly bright headlights and wondering wether any motorists coming up behind me can see me through the dazzle of the oncoming lights.

          • Cycloid
            December 13, 2023 at 4:25 pm
            0

            [quote=chrisonabike
            [quote=chrisonabike

            what’s happened is a light arms-race.

            [/quote]

            Or survival of the fittest – if you don’t take part you get out competed and that is not nice.

            (a) My front light has a lens about the size of a 50p coin compared with a saucer for a typical motor vehicle, if they were both the same luminance then I would be invisible riding next to a car 50 meters up the road.

            (b) Back to the astronomer’s problem. Two horizontal lights could be a car a long way off or a bike close to.

            Circular arguments

             

          • chrisonabike
            December 13, 2023 at 5:55 pm
            0

            Cycloid wrote:

            what’s happened is a light arms-race.

            — Cycloid

            Or survival of the fittest – if you don’t take part you get out competed and that is not nice.

            — chrisonabike

            Maybe – but actually how many lives are saved by having cycle lights brighter than (insert measure here)?  Going forward we have governments and can regulate.  And in fact we do already have road traffic law, vehicle and bike construction / sale regulations … They have actually regulated bike lights in e.g. Germany.  Like everything I’m sure it’s not perfect but seems sensible.  I’ve actually got some (at least one of my dynamo lights) and they’re perfectly adequate in most situations and certainly in urban areas – and that’s at no more than 3 watts, front and back combined.

            Recreational use?  Different thing (and also only a tiny fraction of the population, a little of the time).

          • Cycloid
            December 13, 2023 at 8:53 pm
            0

            As a cyclist you are always

            As a cyclist you are always competing with your backbround and other road users to get noticed. You can choose what you wear and your lights but you cannot choose your background. I’m not sure I would be happy riding on this type of road with a 1970s 3 watt dynamo. From what I remember, of the basic models, they did not get up to full brightness until you got going at a reasonable speed, the lights went out when you stopped at traffic lights and they slipped when it was wet. (Except Dydnhubs). You reckon the dynamo is “adequate for most urban areas” – You rely on your lights to save your life in ALL situations. I don’t want to dazzle anyone, but if it’s that or my life… 

            Unfortunately we are in an arms race, you can take the altruistic approach, but reluctantly I choose to compete.

          • chrisonabike
            December 13, 2023 at 9:53 pm
            0

            Yep – I’ve also moved on from

            Yep – I’ve also moved on from the 70s and 80s and I’m not campaigning for the return of the EverReady light!  If that’s the way you’re thinking however you’ll be even more horrified – of the 3W only between 0.3 – 0.5 W goes out the rear light (e.g. I’ve one of these)!

            …however technology having advanced massively, I find that is indeed plenty* because modern efficient LEDs (plus capacitors to keep the lights on for say 5 minutes when stopped).  (FWIW I run hub dynamos so no slipping, they’re pretty much full-bright at around 10mph I would guess.  I believe even the bottle dynamos have improved a lot also.)

            Your picture – I’m not sure I’d be happy riding on that type of road full stop – and I’m not a shrinking violet (or perhaps I am by your standards?).  Looks like 5-6 lanes across the whole road there… If you’re riding on what seems an (urban?) motorway there then good luck to you!

            It’s not altruism.  I just don’t think – above a reasonable minimum (brighter than my youth of course) – another X lumens will make me safer**.  Same as I think the “Clarkson model of motor safety***” certainly has a grain of truth (being a joke) but is missing so much about humans.

            “Background” as you say and in urban areas aside from the cars you’re competing with all kinds of static and moving lights anyway.  Our cities are bright places.

            * Yes – overnight in the countryside (recreation) I’d likely take battery lights as well to see by better – so I can go a faster pace in unlit areas more easily.

            ** Particularly as I’m wearing reflective things, some of which are moving.  So why add the risk of irritating or distracting others for minimal benefit to myself?

            *** You have to drive a massive SUV because otherwise your kids will die horribly when your car is crushed by someone else’s SUV.

          • chrisonabike
            December 13, 2023 at 5:58 pm
            0

            Cycloid wrote:

            (a) My front light has a lens about the size of a 50p coin compared with a saucer for a typical motor vehicle, if they were both the same luminance then I would be invisible riding next to a car 50 meters up the road.

            (b) Back to the astronomer’s problem. Two horizontal lights could be a car a long way off or a bike close to.

            Circular arguments

            — Cycloid

            Not quite sure what you mean here?  My point was simply that I increasingly understand the complaint “your light’s too bright!” which I used to hear from pedestrians. (And would reply “but it’s not as bright as a car’s…”).  Because of the small area for a bright-long reaching beam they will be potentially more dazzling than vehicle lights.  My point was just “we’re all losing here” (and it’s possible for humans to avoid arms races sometimes).  Solutions are not easy obviously*.

            Your (b) – again not sure what you mean here.  In the UK we can safely assume two lights – spaced horizontally – will be a car / other motor vehicle until we have more information (e.g. if we’re riding on a car-free path, if I’m on a bike and the lights move slowly relative to me).  Yes – it could be two cyclists side-by-side but the occurrence of cyclists is *much* lower and I find in practice I can often distinguish vehicle and cycle lights anyway as they’re different types of light.  Obviously that one would be lost on most drivers (another reason to keep them separate from cyclists)…

            * Without any changes I expect cycle lights to keep getting brighter because “look – this one goes up to 11!” and more electric bikes (more power on hand).  I do not think this is a good thing in general.  I’m not a believer in population level fixes which rely on self-discipline (either on the part of cyclists in deploying sensible lights, or motorists in getting better at spotting cyclists).  Aside from purely recreational off-roading more brightness isn’t needed in urban areas and especially if we get more separation of cycle and motor traffic (without which we won’t see many more cyclists anyway, barring the food delivery businesses expanding to deliver everything…).

          • quiff
            December 13, 2023 at 7:29 pm
            0

            chrisonabike wrote:

            My point was simply that I increasingly understand the complaint “your light’s too bright!” which I used to hear from pedestrians. (And would reply “but it’s not as bright as a car’s…”).  Because of the small area for a bright-long reaching beam they will be potentially more dazzling than vehicle lights.  My point was just “we’re all losing here” (and it’s possible for humans to avoid arms races sometimes).  Solutions are not easy obviously*.

            — chrisonabike

            I’ve recently started doing the school run through a mostly unlit park and, despite having theoretically ‘good’ German regulated lights with a shaped beam (a SON Edelux and, latterly, a battery powered one on an ebike), I’ve been getting some ‘too bright’ comments. I guess I must be angling them too high, negating the beam cut off.    

             

          • chrisonabike
            December 13, 2023 at 7:54 pm
            0

            I mean – they’re still bike

            I’ve been guilty of forgetting to angle lights down having been out in the dark of the countryside.  Or just having had it pushed by something while parking.  Easily done.

            I mean – they’re still bike lights (e.g. very small very bright point in the centre) – and I’ve had a one or two “moths to flames” incidents where it seemed to me that someone – having noticed a “bright light” – while disapproving of it seemed to be unable to look away from it… And for the foreseeable future – at least until “mass cycling” in the UK – there will be a bit of “but cyclists!”

            Alongside various battery lights, on dynamo I’ve Supernova E3 (front / rear) and a Busch & Muller Lumotec IQ-XS headlight.  I used to have a B&M toplight rear one which I rated as it managed to spread the light output over a wider area.

          • quiff
            December 14, 2023 at 2:02 pm
            0

            Yes to the target fixation

            Yes to the target fixation phenomenon!

          • CyclingGardener
            December 13, 2023 at 3:02 pm
            0

            Absolutely, and wouldn’t at
            Absolutely, and wouldn’t at ride at night without. And not against having sensible rules either. Just wondering, though, how much making us ‘more like cars’ makes us . . . more like cars in some people’s minds. Hence ‘road tax’ etc. (Someone actually said to me yesterday that it was unfair that drivers pay VAT on petrol and cyclists don’t! Too gobsmacked at the time to point out we do however VAT on coffee and cake . . .)

          • wycombewheeler
            December 13, 2023 at 5:55 pm
            0

            CyclingGardener wrote:

            we do however VAT on coffee and cake . . .)

            — CyclingGardener

            and on bikes, tyres, chains brake pads, sexy skin tight clothing and all the other important cycling accoutrements

        • Patrick9-32
          December 13, 2023 at 1:57 pm
          0

          tigersnapper wrote:

          It’s not an equivalence thing, it’s simply breaking the law.  If we expect drivers to obey the HC and obey the laws we must hold cyclists (and all other road users) to the same standards.

          — tigersnapper

          “Its not about false equivalence, its just about acting like things which aren’t equivalent are equivalent so we can create a false equivalence…”

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      • Left_is_for_Losers
        December 13, 2023 at 12:37 pm
        0

        Patrick9-32 wrote:

        Here we go again with the false driver and cyclist equivalence. 

        A cyclist without lights is putting themselves at risk.

        A driver who’s vehicle isn’t safe is putting others at risk. 

        They are not the same thing. 

        — Patrick9-32

        But both are inconsiderate towards other road users. 

        Everyone has a duty of care to keep themselves, and others safe. Riding with lights, and ensuring tyres and lights are in good order should be the minimum to expect. I personally go out with lights, nearly all the time – esp in winter, and always a rear light. 

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        • tootsie323
          December 13, 2023 at 12:43 pm
          0

          Tell that to drivers usng

          Tell that to drivers usng daytime running lights at night. Blinding those in front, near-invisible from the rear.

          Who came up with the idea of DRLs and on front lights only??? It’s so ridiculous – just default a running car to sidelights and, if the driver is unable to determine at what level of darkness to go to dipped beams, fine, automate it.

          Rant over…

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          • Matthew Acton-Varian
            December 13, 2023 at 1:00 pm
            0

            I understand your thought on

            I understand your thought on car light automation but the technology does exist in new cars. However it is not perfect and in daytime conditions where dipped beams and even fog lamps are required (mist, fog, heavy rain, snow etc) the system doesn’t work. They run off ambient light sensors and because there is a hum of daylight (albeit scattered in a way that reduces visibility) they stick to daytime lights. There are campaigns to make people aware to manually switch on their dipped beams for those conditions.

            I have always been lucky to own a car which either does not have a DRL system or with a DRL setting that has low front light power and always activates the rear lights.

      • Brauchsel
        December 13, 2023 at 4:40 pm
        0

        “A cyclist without lights is

        “A cyclist without lights is putting themselves at risk.”

        And putting at risk the pedestrians they might run into, who might be doing something like using a pedestrian crossing correctly.

        There is a true equivalence, as unlit cyclists and unlit motorists both do create a (non-negligible) risk to more vulnerable road users. The car will do more damage than the bike of course in the event that risk is realised, but the bike is harder to spot and (around my area) unlit bikes are hugely more prevalent than unlit cars.

        Lights are cheap and reliable, and barring theft there’s not really a good excuse for riding without them.

        I’ve no problem with the approach the City police are taking, but conversely I’d have no complaints about them pulling over a sizeable chunk of the peleton at Bank and issuing some fines. 

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        • hawkinspeter
          December 13, 2023 at 5:25 pm
          0

          Brauchsel wrote:

          “A cyclist without lights is putting themselves at risk.”

          And putting at risk the pedestrians they might run into, who might be doing something like using a pedestrian crossing correctly.

          There is a true equivalence, as unlit cyclists and unlit motorists both do create a (non-negligible) risk to more vulnerable road users. The car will do more damage than the bike of course in the event that risk is realised, but the bike is harder to spot and (around my area) unlit bikes are hugely more prevalent than unlit cars.

          Lights are cheap and reliable, and barring theft there’s not really a good excuse for riding without them.

          I’ve no problem with the approach the City police are taking, but conversely I’d have no complaints about them pulling over a sizeable chunk of the peleton at Bank and issuing some fines. 

          — Brauchsel

          Not quite equivalence as when a cyclist and pedestrian collide, the cyclist can often come off worse.

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    • bobbypuk
      December 13, 2023 at 2:22 pm
      0

      I’ve never parked my car

      I’ve never parked my car outside a shop and had the headlights stolen.

      A car without working lights is not legally allowed on the road (there may be exceptions if you’re on your way to get them fixed, I don’t know). A bike without lights can be used perfectly legally during daylight. 

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  4. Wales56
    December 13, 2023 at 11:19 am
    0

    i can see it’s going to be a

    i can see it’s going to be a rough day here regards we hate drivers 

    after bienig handed lights by a nice police man, the shame has meant i invested money in good lights

    (give peace a chance, and hope drivers do too)

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  5. DoomeFrog
    December 13, 2023 at 11:56 am
    0

    Roads around South

    Roads around South Cambridgeshire and into Cambridge itself are terrible.  Most of the “quiet” routes road surfaces have been this way for years.  In and around Shepreth/Barrington/Foxton you are lucky to find a smooth stretch of road.

    Even Dr Hutch has penned articles on the potholes in the area over the last few years.

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    • Left_is_for_Losers
      December 13, 2023 at 12:11 pm
      0

      DoomeFrog wrote:

      Roads around South Cambridgeshire and into Cambridge itself are terrible.  Most of the “quiet” routes road surfaces have been this way for years.  In and around Shepreth/Barrington/Foxton you are lucky to find a smooth stretch of road.

      Even Dr Hutch has penned articles on the potholes in the area over the last few years.

      — DoomeFrog

      If you know of anywhere in the UK where the roads are actually good, please let me know!

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      • bobbypuk
        December 13, 2023 at 12:55 pm
        0

        There’s a roundabout near me

        There’s a roundabout near me that is perfect smooth new tarmac but for some reason feels nice and quick. It is an unjarring reminder of how pleasant cycling on a good surface is. Sometimes I do a few laps of it just to get the benefit before heading off done the road.

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        • Left_is_for_Losers
          December 13, 2023 at 1:15 pm
          0

          Lucky you, they’ve resurfaced

          Lucky you, they’ve resurfaced a bit of road near us, and it’s been done so badly I actually go around it now completely, potholes or a rough road surface would be as good as the shoddy work whoever put it down did. 

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      • davebrads
        December 13, 2023 at 3:25 pm
        0

        The roads in Pembrokeshire

        The roads in Pembrokeshire and Camarthenshire are in much better condition than I have found anywhere else in the UK, maybe not quite up to French standards but not far off.

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        • chrisonabike
          December 13, 2023 at 3:36 pm
          0

          Must be good in the south of

          Must be good in the south of Wales!  IIRC Cugel formerly of this parish said they were some kind of paradise (Ceredigion in their case), with few drivers to boot.

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      • fenix
        December 14, 2023 at 4:26 pm
        0

        There’s a couple of roads out
        There’s a couple of roads out by Wrexham that are really nice. I suspect it might be something to do with the Tour of Britain visiting there ?

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  6. NotNigel
    December 13, 2023 at 2:47 pm
    0

    It would be nice for the

    It would be nice for the police to hand out the lights without making it a media event, knowing full well that there is going to be a barrage of comments from people who take issue with it. It’s happened round our end, big article on the local rag’s web page, one of the few with comments active, surprise surprise.

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    • Matthew Acton-Varian
      December 13, 2023 at 3:01 pm
      0

      But that generates revenue

      But that generates revenue for them. Although my local paper’s online website have hidden most of their articles behind a subscription paywall. Fair to say I have stopped visiting that site.

       

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      • NotNigel
        December 13, 2023 at 3:23 pm
        0

        I meant more the police

        I meant more the police posting about it on Twitter etc.. which in turn gets picked up by the media.

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        • Simon E
          December 13, 2023 at 7:57 pm
          0

          But they have to show that

          But they have to show that they’re doing something, not just scoffing doughnuts.

          And cyclists riding around without lights are ‘a problem’ say drivers so it’s a winner.

          Perhaps they’ll then turn their attention to the numerous cars with a headlamp not working, drivers phone-fiddling and various other hazardous activities that are witnessed all the time.

          Log In or Register to post comments
  7. marmotte27
    December 13, 2023 at 3:44 pm
    0

    Re Edinburgh: That pothole’s
    Re Edinburgh: That pothole’s soon gonna be open again…

    Log In or Register to post comments
    • chrisonabike
      December 13, 2023 at 4:15 pm
      0

      That spot on Queensferry Road

      That spot on Queensferry Road is always thus at the end of the year.  It looks quite pretty for a day or two as the leaves fall, then they turn into sludge (retained by the “light segregation”) and it’s somewhere to avoid.

      The problem with all these “cosmetic” / “grubby” issues is what lies beneath.  In the case of Edinburgh’s roads (like elsewhere) that is a variety of rim-breaking potholes (or the edges of metal access covers revealed by same), often sharp bits that have come off motor vehicles and enough gravel to necessitate a gravel bike.

      Of course it’s also less fun having to clean off not just the usual salt and grime but half a compost heap also.

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  8. polainm
    December 13, 2023 at 6:15 pm
    0

    Who says UK cycle

    Who says UK cycle infrastructure design is ‘built by the terminally incompetent’?

    Here in Cherry Hinton, Cambridgeshire, we have a recently created section of 3 metre wide cycle path that conveniently leads straight into grass and newly planted hedges.

    The alternative route to the left is narrowed by street furniture and awkward path alignment to ensure riders concentrate on this negotiation as they cycle the wrong way along an already tokenistic cycle lane. 

    This is clearly the result of recent forward thinking ‘Plan for Drivers’ but obviously not for anyone else. 

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  9. polainm
    December 13, 2023 at 6:38 pm
    0

    Cherry Hinton, Cambridge

    Cherry Hinton, Cambridge again. This section of road called Teversham Drift has been patched with liquorice chunks many times by Wonka Highways monkeys, ensuring the patches last at least a week or so. 

    Here, a liquorice patch in the cycle ‘lane’ has created a choice for the adventurous rider; take the lane to avoid road defects, and get shouted at by drivers, take the slimey cycle deviation and be spat out into path of drivers and be shouted at, or try and fit one’s body through the gap with a driver and be shouted at/crushed to death?

    Teversham Drift; both maintenance duty of care and ability to create safe(r) cycle infrastructure was not the focus.

    Meanwhile, not far from here the Black Cat roundabout redevelopment is soon to start, to shave ten minutes off journey time. The cash-strapped local authority has managed to scratch around and find just £1bn for this. 

    Plan for Drivers (just not anything else).  

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Latest Comments

Backladder 3 minutes ago

Its nice that they have these little things called kilometres for all the show offs to ride large numbers of, but in the UK road signs use miles and speed limits are in miles per hour so come back when you are using big boy units!

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
Backladder 17 minutes ago

I don't know of any research into that question but from my own experience a helmet interferes with my awareness of traffic around me, the noise from the wind in the helmet is louder than the sound of modern quiet cars and other cyclists so perhaps your urban commuters are crashing because they can't hear other traffic around them?

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
TrainWalkWheel 27 minutes ago

My father undertook post mortems and attended coronors inquests until his retirement and early death. He saw the riders who died in accidents. He built up decades of observed experience. He made us wear a helmet.

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
Daclu Trelub 7 hours ago

I'm glad I had my trousers on. If I hadn't I might have been arrested.

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
perce 9 hours ago

Who was responsible for organising the prizes on Bullseye? Tonight's star prize was a luxury fitted kitchen. How are you supposed to split that between two contestants? Absolutely ridiculous.

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
swagman 12 hours ago

Oh sir! sir! Johnnys riding his bike without a helmet, he’s going to die when he falls off!, Yes what a silly boy he is ! Anyway jump in the car we’re going to be late for school and I hope no one gets in my way especially bleeding cyclists!! I wonder if AI will see what fools we are..

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
ktache 12 hours ago

It's more about the nomex suit, car helmet and five point harnesses (with HANS), but "reply" ain't what it used to be...

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
Miller 12 hours ago

'Gotten' ? The word is 'become', as in, I have become sick of seeing 'gotten'.

in: “Stop spending money on useless cycle lanes”: local media publishes residents’ angry claims without verification; Hope after all? Surveys show next generation of cyclists back new infrastructure despite safety concerns + more on the live blog
Rendel Harris 13 hours ago

OK, all the stuff I said elsewhere on this thread in defence of helmets, I take it all back. I'd sooner be seen as an anti-lidder than be associated with that heap of steaming ordure.

in: “If I hadn’t had it on, maybe I wouldn’t be here today”: Zoe Bäckstedt recalls horror crash which smashed helmet “into so many pieces”
ceppm 13 hours ago

Exactly my thoughts. A real shame, they're amazing bikes, same as Islabikes. Really sad to hear the news. Having said that, we probably didn't do enough to help them. My son had one Islabike and two Frogs, all second hand that we resold for about the same amount.

in: Redundancies at Frog Bikes after popular children’s bike brand files to appoint administrators

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