Another motorist spotted with ‘cyclist tally’ decal; Traffic cops schooling ignorant road users…Highway Code edition; Cav: Biggest joy from 2021 was people saying ‘thank you’; Guess Alex Dowsett’s “irrational” cycling dislike? + more on the live blog

138 thoughts on “Another motorist spotted with ‘cyclist tally’ decal; Traffic cops schooling ignorant road users…Highway Code edition; Cav: Biggest joy from 2021 was people saying ‘thank you’; Guess Alex Dowsett’s “irrational” cycling dislike? + more on the live blog”

1. Would the police see this as

   Would the police see this as a hate crime?

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2. wonder if I should have a

   wonder if I should have a tally for wing/door/side mirrors from close passers?

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   • Pyro Tim wrote:

     wonder if I should have a tally for wing/door/side mirrors from close passers?

     — Pyro Tim

     Would have to be a very small sticker, to fit on your frame. Although you could do a really long tally along the crossbar.

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     • Captain Badger wrote:

       wonder if I should have a tally for wing/door/side mirrors from close passers?

       — Captain Badger

       Would have to be a very small sticker, to fit on your frame. Although you could do a really long tally along the crossbar.

       — Pyro Tim

       was thinking a jersey with it on, but I’d need the tally to go down the sleeve

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       • Tattoo. Commit to it.

         Tattoo. Commit to it.

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3. I note one major piece of
   I note one major piece of news that Road.cc didn’t report on yesterday or today (so far) is about TT bikes. Tom Pidcock has stated that time trial bikes are ‘dangerous’ to train on.

   https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/60127250

   I’ve stated the exact same opinion as Tom Pidcock in the past, but was told to “shut up because (I) don’t know what (I’m) talking about”.

   With Tom’s intervention, isn’t it about time to have a conversation about these ridiculously impractical, dangerous types of bikes and the fact that amateurs race them down busy dual carriageways?

   My opinion is that – to save lives – TT bikes should only be ridden on closed roads or heavily controlled environments. Watch with incredulity as the same people who claim they’re all about road safety make mealy-mouthed excuses as to why they are road-legal instead of banned.

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   • Who ever told you to shut up

     Who ever told you to shut up was right, you don’t know what you’re talking about!!!!!

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     • Ok, but do me a favour. Next
       Ok, but do me a favour. Next time someone gets seriously injured or whacked while riding one, don’t delete my comment pointing out the fact that these bikes are more dangerous than any other type of road bike, and in my opinion shouldn’t be road-legal on normal open roads.

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       • Serious question, have you

         Serious question, have you ever ridden a TT bike to form this opinion?

         In the same vein as folks on the forum have argued that cars/ guns aren’t inherently dangerous it is all about how they are used. Surely the same is true of TT bikes?

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         • They did change their name to

           They did change their name to TTdanger last year and then immediately went on to make vile comments about a tt rider who had been badly injured in a crash.

           Just so you know their true colours. If there was any doubt in your mind.

         • SimoninSpalding wrote:

           Serious question, have you ever ridden a TT bike to form this opinion?

           In the same vein as folks on the forum have argued that cars/ guns aren’t inherently dangerous it is all about how they are used. Surely the same is true of TT bikes?

           — SimoninSpalding

           Tom Pidcock had the following to say

           “Positions are getting more and more extreme and we spend more time trying to hold these positions,” he said.

           “You don’t necessarily see where you’re going.”

           “I crashed on a time trial bike, Ben [Turner, Ineos team-mate] crashed on a time trial bike. Egan’s now crashed – it’s getting quite extreme, the position. I think that’s the biggest causes of the crashes recently.”

           There may be an argument that the position achieved by a sunday morning triathlete is not as extreme as what is expected of riders on the pro tour, and consequently not as dangerous. But there will always be a trade off between aero position and visibility of the road ahead.

           Of course it’s also possible to do this with a normal road bike

           So what they should be cracking down on is cyclists looking down, not what sort of bike they are using.

         • Wait – are you saying that

           Wait – are you saying that professional sportsmen chasing speed are having crashes? That they seem to be at least as concerned about going fast as reaching their destinations safely?

           And now a few members of the public not only aren’t condemning this but are copying them? My head will explode (if I don’t smash it on something first)!

         • Yes I have owned a TT bike –

           Yes I have owned a TT bike – you’re not only encouraged to ride head down, but the aero bars don’t have any access to brake levers. The position isn’t condusive to turning or control of the bike.

           It’s an inherent and deliberate design flaw, they aren’t suitable to be ridden on normal open roads.

         • Maybe you should campaign for

           Maybe you should campaign for the UCI “height of the bottom bracket” rule to be relaxed then? That’d allow you to go at least as fast as on a TT bike, and more safely / comfortably e.g. like this.

            

         • Of course for those who want

           Of course for those who want some proper speed there’s the wonderful wacky races of the BHPC (video)- coming to a circuit near you!

         • chrisonatrike wrote:

           Maybe you should campaign for the UCI “height of the bottom bracket” rule to be relaxed then? That’d allow you to go at least as fast as on a TT bike, and more safely / comfortably e.g. like this.

            

           — chrisonatrike

           also maximum braking force is increased by moving the rider centre of gravity backwards and downwards, which 

         • Wow, must’ve have been a

           Wow, must’ve have been a really top end one if it had a built in coaching functionality!

           Or possibly it is how the rider chooses to use it.

         • You’re not encouraged to ride
           You’re not encouraged to ride head down, the opposite is true, a head down position can lead to a DQ, as can not going onto the base bar at roundabouts.

           There are notices at sign on warning riders about the consequences, both in terms of a DQ or the danger of injury.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           Yes I have owned a TT bike – you’re not only encouraged to ride head down, but the aero bars don’t have any access to brake levers. The position isn’t condusive to turning or control of the bike.

           It’s an inherent and deliberate design flaw, they aren’t suitable to be ridden on normal open roads.

           — Garage at Large

           Who encouraged you to ride head down?

           If you are not looking where you are going that is both dangerous cycling and riding with undue care and attention under the road traffic act.

           If you were partaking in an authorised time trail then I refer you to Cycling Time Trials Regulations,

           1(a) Competitors, officials, helpers or members of affiliated clubs shall not act or behave in a manner such as to give offence to the public interest or such as to bring the sport into disrepute.

           14. Competitor’s Machine
           Every competitor must ensure that their machine is so constructed, equipped and maintained as to be capable of being ridden on the road safely at all times and in all conditions. The riding position shall be set so that the competitor has good forward vision when in a competitive position.

           14(d)  Machines fitted with triathlon handlebars and derivations thereof which have forearm supports, or Spinacci type handlebars without forearm supports, may be used provided that when the rider adopts a competitive position on these bars:

               (i)  The wrists are no lower than the elbows.
               (ii)  The height from the ground to the forearm resting position is no less than 80% of the height of the saddle from the ground.

           N.B. The Board considers that use of the so called “tuck” and “superman” positions would be a breach of the opening paragraph of this Regulation and that such use is not in the best interests of the safety of riders or the welfare of the sport.

           20. Observance of the Law

           All competitors in, or in the vicinity of the event, must observe the law of the land relating to road use. In particular, but without prejudice to the general principles of this Regulation, competitors must:

           (a) not ride in a manner that is unsafe either to themselves or to other road users;

           and

           Note: Where there has been an accident as a result of a competitor’s contravention of (a) above the competitor shall normally be subjected to a minimum effective period of suspension of six competitive months for a first offence and twelve months for a second offence.

           COMPETITIVE MONTHS ARE DEEMED TO BE MARCH TO OCTOBER INCLUSIVE and NON-COMPETITIVE MONTHS ARE NOVEMBER TO FEBRUARY INCLUSIVE.

           Also, if a competitor is seen to be riding in a dangerous manner, ie head down, then the same penalty will be applied.

           I will also add that all courses used by Cycling Trial and British Cycling have to have a written risk assessment. This must address the risks to both the persons taking part in the event and outside of the event.

           So it seems that you were in breach of the rules and/or the law as well as beinga PRAT for riding in such a dangerous manner.

            

         • SimoninSpalding wrote:

           Serious question, have you ever ridden a TT bike to form this opinion?

           ….

           — SimoninSpalding

           TFTFY

         • Ta!

           Ta!

         • SimoninSpalding wrote:

           Ta!

           — SimoninSpalding

           Je vous en prie

         • Captain Badger wrote:

           Ta!

           — Captain Badger

           Je vous en prie

           — SimoninSpalding

           That’s quite enough politeness and courtesy for one day, thank you.

           Whoops!

         • chrisonatrike wrote:

           ….

           That’s quite enough politeness and courtesy for one day, thank you.

           Whoops!

           — chrisonatrike

           I try not to make a habit of it.

         • Simon, serious questions to

           Simon, serious questions to Nigel are a waste of time and his opinions are ill informed and sometimes just stated to wind the forum up.

           He defends illegal behavour by motorists (NMotD comments), but attacks cylists for legal activiites (TT bikes, two abreast and group riding).

         • I know, but I have a bit of

           I know, but I have a bit of time to waste this morning…

       • Garage at Large wrote:

         Ok, but do me a favour. Next time someone gets seriously injured or whacked while riding one, don’t delete my comment pointing out the fact that these bikes are more dangerous than any other type of road bike, and in my opinion shouldn’t be road-legal on normal open roads.

         — Garage at Large

         Do me a favour, explain how someone being whacked while riding a TT bike would reflect on the relative safety of a TT bike vs a road bike?

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         • Wingguy wrote:

           Ok, but do me a favour. Next time someone gets seriously injured or whacked while riding one, don’t delete my comment pointing out the fact that these bikes are more dangerous than any other type of road bike, and in my opinion shouldn’t be road-legal on normal open roads.

           — Wingguy

           Do me a favour, explain how someone being whacked while riding a TT bike would reflect on the relative safety of a TT bike vs a road bike?— Garage at Large

           I don’t normally reply to your comments as I find your language offensive, but on this occasion – as you’ve asked politely – I’ll make an exception.

           Proportionately, for the miles they cover, you have a far higher chance of being severely injured or killed while riding a TT bike than a standard road bike. TT bikes are ridden on fewer than 1% of all cycling outings (technically they aren’t journeys as they don’t have a defined destination or purpose), yet account for a disproportionate number of fatalities.

           Take this story from Road.cc just a few months ago – two cyclists were killed in time trials just days apart. I say enough is enough.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           Proportionately, for the miles they cover, you have a far higher chance of being severely injured or killed while riding a TT bike than a standard road bike. TT bikes are ridden on fewer than 1% of all cycling outings (technically they aren’t journeys as they don’t have a defined destination or purpose), yet account for a disproportionate number of fatalities.

           Take this story from Road.cc just a few months ago – two cyclists were killed in time trials just days apart. I say enough is enough.

           — Garage at Large

           I’m going to break my own rules.

           Please explain in detail Nigel how you manage to come to the conclusion that a TT rider who was struck from behind by a vehicle is anything to do with a TT Bike being unsafe/un-roadworthy?

           Again you are portraying your opinion as fact where it clearly is not.

           I mean where are your statistics for TT bikes acounting for 1% of ‘outings’ but a disproportionate number of fatalities?

         • TriTaxMan wrote:

           Proportionately, for the miles they cover, you have a far higher chance of being severely injured or killed while riding a TT bike than a standard road bike. TT bikes are ridden on fewer than 1% of all cycling outings (technically they aren’t journeys as they don’t have a defined destination or purpose), yet account for a disproportionate number of fatalities.

           Take this story from Road.cc just a few months ago – two cyclists were killed in time trials just days apart. I say enough is enough.

           — TriTaxMan

           I’m going to break my own rules.

           Please explain in detail Nigel how you manage to come to the conclusion that a TT rider who was struck from behind by a vehicle is anything to do with a TT Bike being unsafe/un-roadworthy?

           Again you are portraying your opinion as fact where it clearly is not.

           I mean where are your statistics for TT bikes acounting for 1% of ‘outings’ but a disproportionate number of fatalities?

           — Garage at Large

           Well, given that there were 140 cycling fatalities in total over an entire year, and yet 2 time trial bike fatalities in a matter of days of each other, where time trial bikes account for fewer than 1% of cycling trips, simply dividing the two numbers already gives a disproportionate number of deaths on TT bikes over the entire year.

           There are of course more time trial bike deaths than this, such as https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/safety-review-after-andrew-hornby-fatal-accident-7974870 and https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/news/people/lewes-wanderers-cycling-club-pays-tribute-to-stalwart-member-who-died-after-collision-3299126, but I’m not going to sift through the figures to find the tragic total number, and I don’t believe that the official statistics differentiate between the type of bike used.

           If Cycling UK had anything about them they’d commission a study into time trial bikes and the extra level of danger they pose, with a view to improving their safety.

           Please note that I am in no way saying that any of the people who have sadly lost their lives are responsible for what happened to them. However, simply by not having the same amount of control or vision as on a standard road bike, TT bikes are simply not practical or safe.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           Well, given that there were 140 cycling fatalities in total over an entire year, and yet 2 time trial bike fatalities in a matter of days of each other, where time trial bikes account for fewer than 1% of cycling trips, simply dividing the two numbers already gives a disproportionate number of deaths on TT bikes over the entire year.

           There are of course more time trial bike deaths than this, such as https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/safety-review-after-andrew-hornby-fatal-accident-7974870 and https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/news/people/lewes-wanderers-cycling-club-pays-tribute-to-stalwart-member-who-died-after-collision-3299126, but I’m not going to sift through the figures to find the tragic total number, and I don’t believe that the official statistics differentiate between the type of bike used.

           If Cycling UK had anything about them they’d commission a study into time trial bikes and the extra level of danger they pose, with a view to improving their safety.— Garage at Large

           But again how have you come to the fewer than 1% of cycling trips figure?  You yourself said that the figures don’t break down between time of bike used in journeys so you have no evidence only opinion of the fewer than 1% of trips.

           But more importantly – answer the question about how a TT Rider being killed as a result of being struck from behind has anything to do with a TT Bike being unsafe on the roads.  I know you won’t answer that.

           *edit* In fact do you have any evidence at all that any of those 4 deaths that you mention were as a result of the rider not being in full control of the bike?
            

         • TriTaxMan wrote:

           But more importantly – answer the question about how a TT Rider being killed as a result of being struck from behind has anything to do with a TT Bike being unsafe on the roads.  I know you won’t answer that.

           *edit* In fact do you have any evidence at all that any of those 4 deaths that you mention were as a result of the rider not being in full control of the bike?
            

           — TriTaxMan

           I bet you I will, and there are a multitude of reasons including:

           1) in the aerobar position, TT bikes have no immediate braking capability, meaning that they are a danger both to the cyclist and other vulnerable road users
           2) the default position on a TT bike is much more aggressive. The rider’s head is facing down, their arms are not in a sensible position to manoeuvre properly. This is to eek out a bit more speed.
           3) often TT bikes are accompanied by deep section wheels which are easily buffeted by the wind, leading to an additional lack of control.
           4) TT events take place on major (national speed limit) A roads, often dual carriageways, to maximise speed and to try to flatten out curves and bumps. These roads are usually open to traffic simultaneously despite the obvious danger.
           5) At the half away point of a time trial there is often a roundabout, which isn’t shut to oncoming traffic, but where participants are incentivised to approach at full speed or face a time penalty. These areas should be considered “out of bounds” in terms of the overall time trial, and participants’ clicks should be frozen until they have safely navigated it.

           There are many others, but these five points above by themselves illustrate important disparities between TT bikes and their more sensible road bike cousins.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           But more importantly – answer the question about how a TT Rider being killed as a result of being struck from behind has anything to do with a TT Bike being unsafe on the roads.

           — Garage at Large I bet you I will, and there are a multitude of reasons including: 1) in the aerobar position, TT bikes have no immediate braking capability, meaning that they are a danger both to the cyclist and other vulnerable road users 2) the default position on a TT bike is much more aggressive. The rider’s head is facing down, their arms are not in a sensible position to manoeuvre properly. This is to eek out a bit more speed. 3) often TT bikes are accompanied by deep section wheels which are easily buffeted by the wind, leading to an additional lack of control. 4) TT events take place on major (national speed limit) A roads, often dual carriageways, to maximise speed and to try to flatten out curves and bumps. These roads are usually open to traffic simultaneously despite the obvious danger. 5) At the half away point of a time trial there is often a roundabout, which isn’t shut to oncoming traffic, but where participants are incentivised to approach at full speed or face a time penalty. These areas should be considered “out of bounds” in terms of the overall time trial, and participants’ clicks should be frozen until they have safely navigated it. There are many others, but these five points above by themselves illustrate important disparities between TT bikes and their more sensible road bike cousins.— TriTaxMan

           Nice try but that is your opinion on why TT Bikes are dangerous, not actually answering the question.  

           Where is your evidence that any of the 4 fatalities that you highlighted were directly related to the construction of the Time Trial Bikes or that the riders in question were at fault in any way.   And specifically, where the articles you quoted gave details that the rider was struck from behind by a van as they were riding along a dual carriageway give evidence to support your assertion that the construction of the bike played any part in the accident.

           So try and answer the question this time not provide your opinion as to why you think TT Bikes are dangerous.

         • I’ve provided evidence-based

           I’ve provided evidence-based facts to you to comprehensively answer your question, I cannot do any more.

           If I told you that it was more dangerous to cross a motorway than to walk across a cul-de-sac you’d say I had no evidence (despite the six or eight lanes of fast moving traffic),  that I was “victim-blaming” people who choose to walk across motorways, and that it was the motorists’ fault if there was a collision.

           Why don’t you get yourself down to the other article and tell the guy whose mate is now wheelchair bound – as a direct result of riding a TT bike – that he’s lying and it’s just his opinion.

         • Garbage writ Large wrote:

           …evidence-based facts…

           — Garbage writ Large

           

         • ‘alternative facts’ maybe 

           ‘alternative facts’ maybe 

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           I’ve provided evidence-based facts to you to comprehensively answer your question, I cannot do any more.

           Why don’t you get yourself down to the other article and tell the guy whose mate is now wheelchair bound – as a direct result of riding a TT bike – that he’s lying and it’s just his opinion.

           — Garage at Large

           Nigel…. lets follow your train of thought.  You said “Proportionately, for the miles they cover, you have a far higher chance of being severely injured or killed while riding a TT bike than a standard road bike.” and to back that up you referenced 4 fatalities involving riders on TT Bikes.

           However you have no evidence to prove that the deaths that you reference had any direct link to the riders being on Time Trial Bikes only your opinion.  And when you asked about it you come back with reasons as to why you think Time Trial bikes are more dangerous, but not providing evidence that the TT Bikes played any part in the accidents involving the cyclists.

           So now you seem to be attempting emotional blackmail…… in the other thread CXR94Di2 does not make any reference as to whether or not they feel that TT Bikes are more or less dangerous than road bikes….. so the only one that is lying is you…… par for the course.

         • Well no, I don’t have any

           Well no, I don’t have any actual physical evidence to prove incontrovertibly that all these time trial bike deaths were linked to the bikes themselves, due to the fact I wasn’t there.

           Perhaps all these various TT bikes casulties were simply unlucky beyond statistical chance. Perhaps when Chris Froome crashed into a house on a TT bike it was the house’s fault. Perhaps when Egal Bernal crashed into a stationary bus, he did so because it spontaneously appeared in front of him.

           Or perhaps, just perhaps, there is a link between all these casualties and the indisputable fact that TT bikes are simply dangerous. Answers on a postcard…

         • Garage at Large wrote:

            I don’t have any actual evidence.

           — Garage at Large

           Pretty much like most of your posts then.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           Well no, I don’t have any actual physical evidence to prove incontrovertibly that all these time trial bike deaths were linked to the bikes themselves, due to the fact I wasn’t there.

           Perhaps all these various TT bikes casulties were simply unlucky beyond statistical chance. Perhaps when Chris Froome crashed into a house on a TT bike it was the house’s fault. Perhaps when Egal Bernal crashed into a stationary bus, he did so because it spontaneously appeared in front of him.

           Or perhaps, just perhaps, there is a link between all these casualties and the indisputable fact that TT bikes are simply dangerous. Answers on a postcard…

           — Garage at Large

           Finally an admission that it is your opinion only.

           Egal Bernal crashed into a stationary bus.  Is that down to the fact that the bike is inherently dangerous or is it down to the fact that he wasn’t looking where he was going?  Who can say. 

           I presume you feel the widely circulated video of the cyclist who crashed into the back of the stationary car of a learner driver was down to the design of the road bike the rider was on?  I mean the natural position on a road bike positions your head to look around 6 feet in front of the front wheel if your head is in a neutral position.  As a rider on a road bike I have to actively look up, same as I need to do on my TT Bike.

           Chris Froome’s accident happened at the time he took his hands off the aero bar to blow his nose and he was hit with a cross wind.  Was that down to the fact that he was on a TT Bike or was it down to the fact that he was using deep section wheels?  Who can say. 

           I have been in triathlons and seen individuals using deep section wheels on standard road bikes and be caught by a gust of wind and end up in the ditch.  Do you think that deep section wheels should also be banned?

         • I watched another dam cam

           I watched another dam cam video last night plus rufford ford.

           I think various car models should be banned plus caravans. One caravan came detached and smashed into a vehicle coming the other way.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           Well no, I don’t have any actual physical evidence to prove incontrovertibly that all these time trial bike deaths were linked to the bikes themselves, due to the fact I wasn’t there.

           — Garage at Large

           And due to the fact that it’s obviously ridiculous.

           Perhaps all these various TT bikes casulties were simply unlucky beyond statistical chance. Perhaps when Chris Froome crashed into a house on a TT bike it was the house’s fault. Perhaps when Egal Bernal crashed into a stationary bus, he did so because it spontaneously appeared in front of him.

           Well if we’re talking about Froome and Bernal should we not also be talking about all the other crashes Pro cyclists have? How much do you think they’ll stand out if we list all the others? I guess when that driver plowed through half the DSM team a few seasons back it’s proof the road bikes are too dangerous to be allowed, right?

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           I’ve provided evidence-based facts to you to comprehensively answer your question, I cannot do any more.

           — Garage at Large

           Since you have not done that at all, then you really could do more.

           If I told you that it was more dangerous to cross a motorway than to walk across a cul-de-sac you’d say I had no evidence (despite the six or eight lanes of fast moving traffic),  that I was “victim-blaming” people who choose to walk across motorways, and that it was the motorists’ fault if there was a collision.

           Again, what does the choice of road have to do with the safety of the bike? How are you too dense to realise this?

           If I told you walking was more dangerous than hopping, and justified it by saying “Well try walking across a 6 lane motorway and see how that goes” would that actually be a convincing argument to you?

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           There are many others, but these five points above by themselves illustrate important disparities between TT bikes and their more sensible road bike cousins.

           — Garage at Large

           Points 1, 2, 3 and 5 have absolutely nothing to do with the accident reports you have provided as ‘proof’ of your assertions that TT bikes are dangerous. Points 4 and 5 also have nothing to do with TT bikes specifically, they apply equally to road bikes doing the same thing.

         • Garbage writ Large wrote:

           Well, given that there were 140 cycling fatalities in total over an entire year, and yet 2 time trial bike fatalities in a matter of days of each other, where time trial bikes account for fewer than 1% of cycling trips, simply dividing the two numbers already gives a disproportionate number of deaths on TT bikes over the entire year statistically insignificant result.

           — Garbage writ Large

         • Garage at Large wrote:

            

           I don’t normally reply to your comments as I find your language offensive, but on this occasion – as you’ve asked politely – I’ll make an exception.

           Proportionately, for the miles they cover, you have a far higher chance of being severely injured or killed while riding a TT bike than a standard road bike. TT bikes are ridden on fewer than 1% of all cycling outings (technically they aren’t journeys as they don’t have a defined destination or purpose), yet account for a disproportionate number of fatalities.

           Take this story from Road.cc just a few months ago – two cyclists were killed in time trials just days apart. I say enough is enough.

           — Garage at Large

           no mention in that article what type of bike they are using, you seem to be swerving all over this thread unsure whether you are argung against time trials, or time trial bikes. For safety you should try to hold your line.

           Please try either

           • Time trials are dangerous because…
           • Riding on dual carriageways is dangerous because…
           • Time trial bikes are dangerous because…
           • misuse of time trial bikes is dangerous because…

           When being hit from behind, it makes no difference what type of bike the rider was using, braking and steering is irrelevant when the impact comes unseen from behind. Even in the most extreme aero position any driver who can not see a cyclist should not be on the roads.

           In the aero position braking is delayed (although does it take longer to move hands than to move a foot from the go pedal to the stop pedal on a car?) and steering is difficult. But no one should be in this position for junctions or in areas where pedestrians are likely.

           Arguing that time trial bikes ra edangerous becuase they are fatser is nonsense, because the cyclists are not likely to be exceeding the speed limit on the roads they are using.

         • wycombewheeler wrote:

           no mention in that article what type of bike they are using, you seem to be swerving all over this thread unsure whether you are argung against time trials, or time trial bikes. For safety you should try to hold your line.

           Please try either

           • Time trials are dangerous because…
           • Riding on dual carriageways is dangerous because…
           • Time trial bikes are dangerous because…
           • misuse of time trial bikes is dangerous because…

           When being hit from behind, it makes no difference what type of bike the rider was using, braking and steering is irrelevant when the impact comes unseen from behind. Even in the most extreme aero position any driver who can not see a cyclist should not be on the roads.

           In the aero position braking is delayed (although does it take longer to move hands than to move a foot from the go pedal to the stop pedal on a car?) and steering is difficult. But no one should be in this position for junctions or in areas where pedestrians are likely.

           Arguing that time trial bikes ra edangerous becuase they are fatser is nonsense, because the cyclists are not likely to be exceeding the speed limit on the roads they are using.

           — wycombewheeler

           Firstly, thank you for being the first person on the thread to bravely and openly admit that time trial bikes are more dangerous and difficult to control than standard road bikes.

           Secondly, as I’m sure you’re aware, time trial bikes are disproportionately used… in time trials! Therefore, time trial rules disproportionately affect adverse outcomes for cyclists using time trial bikes, and if I can propose a solution to alleviate excess deaths and injuries I will do so. However, even after making time trial events safer, you are still faced with the inherent design flaws in TT bikes which you’ve acknowledged exist.

           On your comments about “misuse” and your contention that they aren’t more dangerous because they are “faster”, the point I was trying to make was that to maximise your speed on a time trial bike, you have to “misuse” it. That is to say, the more your head is down, the more aggressive your position, the less you pay attention to junctions and other road users, the deeper your wheels, etc, the faster you go.

           Finally, on your contention that “no one should be in this (aero) position for junctions or in areas where pedestrians are likely.”, you’ll of course be aware that there are no highway code rules to stop cyclists from adopting that position. Perhaps you might agree that there should be more regulation in this area?

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           Secondly, as I’m sure you’re aware, time trial bikes are disproportionately used… in time trials! Therefore, time trial rules disproportionately affect adverse outcomes for cyclists using time trial bikes,

           — Garage at Large

           ah, so time trial BIKES are dangerous because “correlation”

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           Finally, on your contention that “no one should be in this (aero) position for junctions or in areas where pedestrians are likely.”, you’ll of course be aware that there are no highway code rules to stop cyclists from adopting that position. Perhaps you might agree that there should be more regulation in this area?

           — Garage at Large

           Now that we’re out of the EU I see you’ve decided to take up the mantle of ‘faceless bureaucrat dreaming up endless red tape to protect people from the risks of being able to make their own decisions’.

            

           So that’s good.

         • #TakeBackOurBureaucracy

           #TakeBackOurBureaucracy

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           I don’t normally reply to your comments as I find your language offensive, but on this occasion – as you’ve asked politely – I’ll make an exception.

           — Garage at Large

           You get what you give. If you weren’t here for the sole purpose of being as offensive as possible then you’d get better language in return. Since you are though, stop fucking moaning.

           Take this story from Road.cc just a few months ago – two cyclists were killed in time trials just days apart. I say enough is enough.

           What did either of those accidents have to do with the relative safety of TT bikes? Is it TT bikes you’re arguing against or TTs themselves? Please pick one irrational bugbear and stick with it instead of chopping and changing however it suits you.

           Even then, they were both driven into by negligent drivers who weren’t looking at the road and who got mere slaps on the wrist in return. If you want to make a positive change for road safety that is it – campaign for harsher treatment of dangerous and deadly drivers. Roll back this bizarre bubble our society has created where you remove any expectation of safe conduct and the responsibilty towards other humans that exists in every other part of our personal and professional lives as soon as you step into a metal box.

       • GMBasix wrote:

         My opinion is that – to save lives – cars should only be ridden on closed roads or heavily controlled environments. Watch with incredulity as the same people who claim they’re all about road safety make mealy-mouthed excuses as to why they are road-legal instead of banned.

         Next time someone gets seriously injured or whacked by one, don’t delete my comment pointing out the fact that motor vehicles are more dangerous than any other type of vehicle, and in my opinion shouldn’t be road-legal on normal open roads.— GMBasix

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         • That’s nice, has nothing to

           That’s nice, has nothing to with TT bikes though does it?

           If you want to consider a parallel, imagine if there was a new class of car introduced to the road where you couldn’t see properly out of the windows, where the brake pedal was operated on the passenger side of the vehicle, and where the steering wheel didn’t work properly.

           I assume you’d think that was a bad idea?

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           imagine if there was a new class of car introduced to the road where you couldn’t see properly out of the windows, where the brake pedal was operated on the passenger side of the vehicle, and where the steering wheel didn’t work properly.

           — Garbage writ Large

           Sounds like an awful lot of cars on the road today, judging by how they’re driven.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           That’s nice, has nothing to with TT bikes though does it?

           — Garage at Large

           Your comments fail to begin to justify why it is the TT bike that is at fault, not the actions of motorists hitting them.

           You have confused allusion to association (no actual stats) with causation (no actual study of collision reports).

           Your points list is laughably speculative, without merit, and don’t even begin to consider in the equation the role of the motorist, whose one job is not to hit the cyclist in front of them.

           That noise you hear is not your appreciative audience calling for your encore, it’s people laughing at your attempts to troll the board.

         • GMBasix wrote:

           Your comments fail to begin to justify why it is the TT bike that is at fault, not the actions of motorists hitting them.

           You have confused allusion to association (no actual stats) with causation (no actual study of collision reports).

           Your points list is laughably speculative, without merit, and don’t even begin to consider in the equation the role of the motorist, whose one job is not to hit the cyclist in front of them.

           That noise you hear is not your appreciative audience calling for your encore, it’s people laughing at your attempts to troll the board.

           — GMBasix

           Indeed it’s like he failed to realise that a driver on a Dual Carriageway has an entire lane that they could use that the cyclist wouldn’t be in. 

           Or at the very least should have given the cyclist 1.5m of clearance as they were passing which would mitigate any movement from buffeting that he is suggesting.

           And that brakes really don’t help when something runs into the back of you.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           That’s nice, has nothing to with TT bikes though does it?

           If you want to consider a parallel, imagine if there was a new class of car introduced to the road where you couldn’t see properly out of the windows, where the brake pedal was operated on the passenger side of the vehicle, and where the steering wheel didn’t work properly.

           I assume you’d think that was a bad idea?

           — Garage at Large

           *Breaking my rule again* But if this new class of car were hit FROM BEHIND when travelling just normally, dead straight down a dual carriageway, with their back light on (which ofc they would be compelled to have, so that motorists would notice them or at least, have an excuse for not missing them), How Would Their Inability To Brake/Steer/See Worsen Their Situation At All?

   • Garage at Large wrote:

     I With Tom’s intervention, isn’t it about time to have a conversation about these ridiculously impractical, dangerous types of bikes and the fact that amateurs race them down busy dual carriageways? My opinion is that – to save lives – TT bikes should only be ridden on closed roads or heavily controlled environments. Watch with incredulity as the same people who claim they’re all about road safety make mealy-mouthed excuses as to why they are road-legal instead of banned.

     — Garage at Large

     Watch with the exact opposite of incredulity as Nigel fails to justify his opinion with any stats of how many people are injured on TT bikes. Hell, I’m no great fan of dual carriageway TTs and have no desire to race them, but Nigel is claiming that they’re dangerous because people on TT bikes keep crashing into things in front of them? Lol, how daft are you?

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4. Road wrote:

   .Another motorist spotted with ‘cyclist tally’ decal

   — Road

   Nothing a spraycan of Hammerite won’t solve…..

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5. How many lives would be saved

   How many lives would be saved by banning TT bikes? Give us a stat. 

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   • Podc wrote:

     How many lives would be saved by banning TT bikes? Give us a stat. 

     — Podc

     All those who lost the will to live reading drivel about them here, for a start.

     Oh no – wait – it would just be replaced with drivel about something else, wouldn’t it?

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     • mdavidford wrote:

       How many lives would be saved by banning TT bikes? Give us a stat. 

       — mdavidford

       All those who lost the will to live reading drivel about them here, for a start.

       Oh no – wait – it would just be replaced with drivel about something else, wouldn’t it?

       — Podc

       I’m sure a certain someone who thinks TT Bikes should be banned…. is also in favour of banning stairs…. I’m pretty sure more people in the UK will be killed falling down stairs each year than have been killed on or as a direct result of someone on a TT Bike in the last 20 years or so.

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   • If it saves one life…

     If it saves one life…

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     • In principle yes, but in

       In principle yes, but in practice it depends on which life doesn’t it?

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     • Don’t get me started on DIY

       Don’t get me started on DIY power tools!

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   • Podc wrote:

     How many lives would be saved by banning TT bikes? Give us a stat. 

     — Podc

     You won’t get facts from him….. only his opinion dressed up as fact.  And because he knows he doesn’t have any evidence to back up his opinion he will stop engaging with you and move on to someone else

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6. I have to come to the defence

   I have to come to the defence of carrot cake. I would totally eat a carrot cake energy gel. 

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   • captain_slog wrote:

     I have to come to the defence of carrot cake. I would totally eat a carrot cake energy gel. 

     — captain_slog

     Carrot cake is just wrong, imo.  If you’re going to have cake, have cake.  Don’t pretend its healthy by putting carrot in it, when all that does is ruin it.

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     • Steve K wrote:

       I have to come to the defence of carrot cake. I would totally eat a carrot cake energy gel. 

       — Steve K

       Carrot cake is just wrong, imo.  If you’re going to have cake, have cake.  Don’t pretend its healthy by putting carrot in it, when all that does is ruin it.

       — captain_slog

        

       YES!

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       • Daveyraveygravey wrote:

         I have to come to the defence of carrot cake. I would totally eat a carrot cake energy gel. 

         — Daveyraveygravey

         Carrot cake is just wrong, imo.  If you’re going to have cake, have cake.  Don’t pretend its healthy by putting carrot in it, when all that does is ruin it.

         — Steve K

          

         YES!

         — captain_slog

         NO!

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     • Steve K wrote:

       Carrot cake is just wrong, imo.  If you’re going to have cake, have cake.  Don’t pretend its healthy by putting carrot in it, when all that does is ruin it.

       — Steve K

       That is so not why carrot cake has carrot in it. 

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       • Just to expand on that,

         Just to expand on that, adding carrot to cake was a way of replacing the sugar in the recipe that was not abundantly available during wartime (just can’t remember whether that was originally WW1 or WW2 though).

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         • Which I totally get, but why
           Which I totally get, but why then whack a load of thick sugary icing on top it.

           I quite like carrot cake, or basically anything with cake in its name, the icing sugar rush is just too much.

         • I’ll happily give you that

           I’ll happily give you that one; love the body of the cake, but quite happy to forego the icing!

         • When my other half used to

           When my other half used to sort the catering at our club RR’s, her non-iced carrot cake was always the first to sell out.

            

           * for gender balance, I used to bake and ice the coffee walnut cake which also sold out later.

         • Sickly icing is absolutely

           Sickly icing is absolutely not a fundamental feature of carrot cake. Just as it’s not a fundamental feature of lemon drizzle. Or (American) muffins, for that matter. This is just a modern abomination that has infected our cakes.

         • Ride On wrote:

           Which I totally get, but why then whack a load of thick sugary icing on top it. ….

           — Ride On

           Because we can. 

         • CyclingInGawler wrote:

           Just to expand on that, adding carrot to cake was a way of replacing the sugar in the recipe that was not abundantly available during wartime (just can’t remember whether that was originally WW1 or WW2 though).

           — CyclingInGawler

           memory starting to fade?

           

       • Jetmans Dad wrote:

         Carrot cake is just wrong, imo.  If you’re going to have cake, have cake.  Don’t pretend its healthy by putting carrot in it, when all that does is ruin it.

         — Jetmans Dad

         That is so not why carrot cake has carrot in it. 

         — Steve K

         well it can’t be for the flavour, as just about every other type of cake is tastier. I mean carrot cake may come in ahead of sludge cake, but not by a great margin, and only one of those is intended for eating.

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     • What’s your position on date

       What’s your position on date and walnut cake?

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       • racyrich wrote:

         What’s your position on date and walnut cake?

         — racyrich

         TBH I could literally eat that until I was sick…

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       • racyrich wrote:

         What’s your position on date and walnut cake?

         — racyrich

         I don’t like walnuts (unlike carrots, which I do like, just not in cake) but dates in cakes/puddings are fine. I do love a sticky toffee pudding, for example.

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     • You’re going to be so upset
       You’re going to be so upset when you find out about banana bread…

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       • jacknorell wrote:

         You’re going to be so upset when you find out about banana bread…

         — jacknorell

         Fruit in cake is great – banana bread; lemon cake; (my personal favourite) Dorset apple cake etc…  It’s vegetables in cake that are wrong.

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         • Steve K wrote:

           You’re going to be so upset when you find out about banana bread…

           — Steve K

           Fruit in cake is great – banana bread; lemon cake; (my personal favourite) Dorset apple cake etc…  It’s vegetables in cake that are wrong.— jacknorell

           Where do you stand on courgettes, pumpkins (and other squash), or tomatoes? Technically they’re fruit…

         • mdavidford wrote:

           You’re going to be so upset when you find out about banana bread…

           — mdavidford

           Fruit in cake is great – banana bread; lemon cake; (my personal favourite) Dorset apple cake etc…  It’s vegetables in cake that are wrong.

           — Steve K

           Where do you stand on courgettes, pumpkins (and other squash), or tomatoes? Technically they’re fruit…

           — jacknorell

           If you stand anywhere on them, they’re squashed.

         • If you don’t stand on them
           If you don’t stand on them they are still squash.

           Anyway, I make a bloody marvelous lemon drizzle cake with mashed potato

         • mdavidford wrote:

           ……

           Where do you stand on courgettes, pumpkins (and other squash), or tomatoes? Technically they’re fruit…

           — mdavidford

           I try not to as they get a bit squashy…

         • mdavidford wrote:

           You’re going to be so upset when you find out about banana bread…

           — mdavidford

           Fruit in cake is great – banana bread; lemon cake; (my personal favourite) Dorset apple cake etc…  It’s vegetables in cake that are wrong.

           — Steve K

           Where do you stand on courgettes, pumpkins (and other squash), or tomatoes? Technically they’re fruit…

           — jacknorell

           How about that well loved fruit, cucumber?

         • hawkinspeter wrote:

           You’re going to be so upset when you find out about banana bread…

           — hawkinspeter

           Fruit in cake is great – banana bread; lemon cake; (my personal favourite) Dorset apple cake etc…  It’s vegetables in cake that are wrong.

           — mdavidford

           Where do you stand on courgettes, pumpkins (and other squash), or tomatoes? Technically they’re fruit…

           — Steve K

           How about that well loved fruit, cucumber?

           — jacknorell

           Ooh, you’re a cheeky one, cauliflower!

            

         • chrisonatrike wrote:

           Ooh, you’re a cheeky one, cauliflower!

           — chrisonatrike

           I’ll see your cauliflower and raise you a broccoli

         • hawkinspeter wrote:

           How about that well loved fruit, cucumber?

           — hawkinspeter

           Oh, yes – we had a lovely cake out of our cucumber glut in the summer. But again – yours has been unnecessarily slathered in sugary goop.

         • mdavidford wrote:

           Oh, yes – we had a lovely cake out of our cucumber glut in the summer. But again – yours has been unnecessarily slathered in sugary goop.

           — mdavidford

           I fail to see how a cake can ever be “unnecessarily” slathered in sugary goop – it’s an essential part. I mean, just imagine how a brussel sprout cake would taste without some kind of icing?

           https://www.cookingbites.com/threads/brussels-sprout-cake.8730/

     • Steve K wrote:

       I have to come to the defence of carrot cake. I would totally eat a carrot cake energy gel. 

       — Steve K

       Carrot cake is just wrong, imo.  If you’re going to have cake, have cake.  Don’t pretend its healthy by putting carrot in it, when all that does is ruin it.

       — captain_slog

       the youngest cub baked a carrot cake only the other night. none of us pretended it was healthy. Sadly it didn’t live to see the morn. Next time she bakes one I’ll post you a slice.

       It won’t be a big slice though, else you won’t have enough room afterwards to eat your words ….

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   • Nakd bars do a nice carrot

     Nakd bars do a nice carrot cake bar whcih would work

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   • Me too, no doubt that’s not
     Me too, no doubt that’s not much help to carrot cakes cause though.

     But hey if others dont like it, means theres more for us

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7. Oi!  Re: decals.

   Oi!  Re: decals.

   This is the UK, we have transfers and stickers. I very much doubt that that egregious sign is a transfer (decalcomania for left pondians).

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   • janusz0 wrote:

     Oi!  Re: decals.

     This is the UK, we have transfers and stickers. I very much doubt that that egregious sign is a transfer (decalcomania for left pondians).

     — janusz0

     Forty-odd years ago when I was making model aeroplane kits the various RAF roundels, flight numbers etc were always described as “decals” and if it’s good enough for 1970s Airfix it’s good enough for me! It’s certainly not just an Americanism – the etymology is French I think.

     As far as I’ve always thought of it a sticker is a one-piece design where one just removes the backing and slaps it on, a decal is usually a collection of elements, e.g. vinyl-cut letters, held together on a top sheet, so one removes the backing, smoothes it onto the surface and then peels off the top sheet. That’s just an assumption though…

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     • Rendel Harris wrote:

       Oi!  Re: decals.

       This is the UK, we have transfers and stickers. I very much doubt that that egregious sign is a transfer (decalcomania for left pondians).

       — Rendel Harris

       Forty-odd years ago when I was making model aeroplane kits the various RAF roundels, flight numbers etc were always described as “decals” and if it’s good enough for 1970s Airfix it’s good enough for me! It’s certainly not just an Americanism – the etymology is French I think.

       — janusz0

       I was also transported instantly back in time to the 70s to cementing (it was cement, iirc) my fingers to the dining room table.

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       • That’s right, always cement,

         That’s right, always cement, never “glue”.

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     • Rendel Harris wrote:

       As far as I’ve always thought of it a sticker is a one-piece design where one just removes the backing and slaps it on, a decal is usually a collection of elements, e.g. vinyl-cut letters, held together on a top sheet, so one removes the backing, smoothes it onto the surface and then peels off the top sheet. That’s just an assumption though…

       — Rendel Harris

       Do you remember the old Letraset graphics and lettering?  (for the young people here, this was what we did if we wanted to do posh graphics and lettering, in the days before word processing and CAD).

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       • Yeah! The plastic sheets

         Yeah! The plastic sheets where you rubbed on the letters with a pencil – never could get them in a straight line, try as I might…

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       • brooksby wrote:

         As far as I’ve always thought of it a sticker is a one-piece design where one just removes the backing and slaps it on, a decal is usually a collection of elements, e.g. vinyl-cut letters, held together on a top sheet, so one removes the backing, smoothes it onto the surface and then peels off the top sheet. That’s just an assumption though…

         — brooksby

         Do you remember the old Letraset graphics and lettering?  (for the young people here, this was what we did if we wanted to do posh graphics and lettering, in the days before word processing and CAD).

         — Rendel Harris

         Or for the less fancy, one of these:

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         • Surely you mean one these?
           Surely you mean one these?

         • Ah – thank you – that’s more

           Ah – thank you – that’s more like it. My quick scout around failed to turn up anything sufficiently classic.

       • brooksby wrote:

         As far as I’ve always thought of it a sticker is a one-piece design where one just removes the backing and slaps it on, a decal is usually a collection of elements, e.g. vinyl-cut letters, held together on a top sheet, so one removes the backing, smoothes it onto the surface and then peels off the top sheet. That’s just an assumption though…

         — brooksby

         Do you remember the old Letraset graphics and lettering?  (for the young people here, this was what we did if we wanted to do posh graphics and lettering, in the days before word processing and CAD).

         — Rendel Harris

         Ahhh! Letraset, never enough vowels so it was a self generating chain of demand 🙂

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8. Well, Carolinee Willmot seems

   Well, Carolinee Willmot seems like a lovely person, doesn’t she…? 

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   • brooksby wrote:

     Well, Carolinee Willmot seems like a lovely person, doesn’t she…? 

     — brooksby

     Apparently it looks like she doesn’t need to worry about being late for work any more…….

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9. Interesting stats on the

   Interesting stats on the number of accidents involving provisional drivers.The range per 10,000 varies from

   0.57 to 25.20

   With Peterborough at the top (best) and Colchester at the bottom. They are quite similar places so that’s a big disparity. You might want to try and do some weighting for those who are active licence holders but even so it would likely be even across the board.

   You ‘d think any other industry questions would be asked or worked stopped until an investigation was complete.

   https://www.billplant.co.uk/blog/learner-driver-accidents/

    

    

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10. So disappointing from Andy

    So disappointing from Andy Burnham and breathtakingly ill-informed. Has he lost Chris’s number?

    We’ve known the changes were coming since the consultation in 2020. The details have been available for months. Additionally, making these comments after the DVSA officially announced the changes last night. You really think that it can be halted now:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-changes-you-need-to-know-from-29-january-2022

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    • Maybe he’s been reading the

      Maybe he’s been reading the tabloids?

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    • RE: Ill-judged and ill

      RE: Ill-judged and ill-informed. Agree he doesn’t quite seem up to speed on this and maybe hasn’t digested the news.  Maybe he read about it in the Mail?  However if you read all he said I think you can understand where he’s coming from. That is a better vision than will be illustrated in pictures in the Highway Code:

      …number of issues about road safety that have not have been handled properly … The answer is to build segregated infrastructure for people. … That’s a better way rather than expecting cyclists to go into the middle of the road.

      — Andy Burnham

      Can’t really disagree with that – not when you realise they’re actually doing this to a decent standard. They’re tackling junctions. They appear to genuinely have a unified active travel programme with “mass cycling” for “8 – 80” as a goal.  They’re looking critically at car parking, creating cycling and walking networks.

      I’ll forgive his slightly odd take on the HC changes if they’re really on that path. I can imagine someone from The Netherlands responding in a similar way to advice to “claim the lane” after experiencing a day out on the UK’s roads.

      I’m not in Manchester though so if someone’s aware they’ve ditched all the stuff they got started with Chris Boardman do let us know!

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      • Hardly his fault if he is ill

        Hardly his fault if he is ill-informed with the lack of information. I have just seen a clip from ITV showing what they showed as a graphic from the DfT. It shows the space “that has to be given to cyclists” and they interpreted is as being the linear distance rather than lateral (ie. nothing to do with overtaking) and suggested that at up to 30mph cars can travel 1.5m behind us.

         

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        • ooldbaker wrote:

          Hardly his fault if he is ill-informed with the lack of information. I have just seen a clip from ITV showing what they showed as a graphic from the DfT. It shows the space “that has to be given to cyclists” and they interpreted is as being the linear distance rather than lateral (ie. nothing to do with overtaking) and suggested that at up to 30mph cars can travel 1.5m behind us.

          — ooldbaker

          If he’s taken that graphic created by ITV as gospel without bothering to check any of the very clear advice that the DfT has actually put out then it really is his fault.

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      • chrisonatrike wrote:

        RE: Ill-judged and ill-informed. Agree he doesn’t quite seem up to speed on this and maybe hasn’t digested the news.  Maybe he read about it in the Mail? 

        — chrisonatrike

        Enjoying the image of Andy Burnham smuggling his copy of the daily mail into the Labour Party conference

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11. RE: Before vs after

    RE: Before vs after

    Gorgie Road, Edinburgh.  Much needed and will be great, but the thing is – development here has been bubbling for years. The usual rounds of consultation, uproar by a few with loud voices, more redesigns, consultations.  Happy days for consultants.  Pretty much every metre has been contested. Last year the scheme as a whole was watered down (“value engineering”).

    So to the “cyclists are running this town now!” cries I give a hollow laugh and point out just how easy it is…

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    • Safe cycling thru jambo town

      Safe cycling thru jambo town 🙂

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      • I still have nightmares of

        I still have nightmares of negotiating Easter Road and the streets round Leith. 

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        • “What is Leith? Begbie, don’t

          “What is Leith? Begbie, don’t hurt me”

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12. Andy Burnham:  we’ve tried

    Andy Burnham:  we’ve tried this great scheme where we put a zebra on the side road so motorists have to give way to people crossing – we’d like to do more of it.

    UK Government: we like that idea, rather than spend loads of money and effort on the shitshow of consultation on every road project that isn’t about giving cars unfettered access to kill people, why don’t we just change the rules of the road so that’s the default position.  That sounds like a great idea.

    Andy Burnham: oh no no no, no no no, I don’t like that!

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13. Michelle Arthurs-Brennan’s

    Michelle Arthurs-Brennan’s blog 

    Thats f’ing disgusting what continues to happen to her.  

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14. Michelle Arthurs-Brennan’s

    Michelle Arthurs-Brennan’s experience is f**king horrific and that muppet Hambini and his followers need to be brought down a peg or 10. YouTube need to hit him in the pocket by banning him…and his hateful followers need a police visit and a 10k fine.

    They can then explain to their family why they are threatening sexual violence towards a female journalist who is guilty of some unspecified error on aero f**king testing. FFS.

    Surely at some point we are going to have to severly restrict social media or hold it’s owners to account, its a total horrorshow and there seems to be few actual benefits.

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    • EddyBerckx wrote:

      Surely at some point we are going to have to severly restrict social media or hold it’s owners to account, its a total horrorshow and there seems to be few actual benefits.

      — EddyBerckx

      I like the model that Hacker News uses – strict and active moderation so that problematic posters are flagged and then banned if they continue to ignore the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

      In Comments

      Be kind. Don’t be snarky. Have curious conversation; don’t cross-examine. Please don’t fulminate. Please don’t sneer, including at the rest of the community.

      Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

      When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. “That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3” can be shortened to “1 + 1 is 2, not 3.”

      Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that’s easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

      Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

      Please don’t post shallow dismissals, especially of other people’s work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

      Please don’t use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

      Please don’t comment on whether someone read an article. “Did you even read the article? It mentions that” can be shortened to “The article mentions that.”

      Please don’t pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead.

      Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don’t create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to.

      Please don’t use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put *asterisks* around it and it will get italicized.

      Please don’t post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you’re worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we’ll look at the data.

      Please don’t complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don’t feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don’t also comment that you did.

      Please don’t complain about tangential annoyances—things like article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They’re too common to be interesting.

      Please don’t comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

      Please don’t post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It’s a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

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      • Blimey, if they applied those

        Blimey, if they applied those rules here I’d be just about the only one left!

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        • Garage at Large wrote:

          Blimey, if they applied those rules here I’d be just about the only one left!

          — Garage at Large

          Don’t feed egregious comments by replying

          — Extract from rules

          Dammit, you’re right!

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        • Garage at Large wrote:

          Blimey, if they applied those rules here I’d be just about the only one left!

          — Garage at Large

          Yes, because you’re the only one that keeps coming back with new accounts each time an old one is banned. 

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          • Think they have done that
            Think they have done that only once.
            There is a stupid feature which allows users to change their username though.

        • I was having a bad day but

          I was having a bad day but you’ve rescued me.  

          In the first rule – “please don’t sneer” …. 

          *falls off chair* 

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15. BEETROOT CAKE

    BEETROOT CAKE

    

    https://vintagekitty.com/rustic-beet-cake-with-cream-cheese-icing/

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    • I’ve had parsnip cake before
      I’ve had parsnip cake before at a cafe stop, apparently they add a similar flavour & sweetness as carrots do, but I wasnt convinced.

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      • I’ve had a courgette and

        I’ve had a courgette and chocolate cake before. Very nice and not at all what I was expecting – luckily I couldn’t taste the courgettes.

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        • kinderje wrote:

          I’ve had a courgette and chocolate cake before. Very nice and not at all what I was expecting – luckily I couldn’t taste the courgettes.

          — kinderje

          I got chocolate and chili cake once (Think it’s a Wagamama thing). Couldn’t taste the chilis thankfully.

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      • Awavey wrote:

        I’ve had parsnip cake before at a cafe stop, apparently they add a similar flavour & sweetness as carrots do, but I wasnt convinced.

        — Awavey

        I’ve seen some cake recipes that use parsnip and carrot together, but at some point surely you’d be better off having them with a bit of gravy and maybe some peas

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        • hawkinspeter wrote:

          I’ve had parsnip cake before at a cafe stop, apparently they add a similar flavour & sweetness as carrots do, but I wasnt convinced.

          — hawkinspeter

          I’ve seen some cake recipes that use parsnip and carrot together, but at some point surely you’d be better off having them with a bit of gravy and maybe some peas— Awavey
          You can ruin any dish with parsnips. Some people find the parsnip edible. Myself, I find this claim incredible.

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          • TheBillder wrote:

            You can ruin any dish with parsnips. Some people find the parsnip edible. Myself, I find this claim incredible.

            — TheBillder

            I love a good roast parsnip or what I sometimes do is parsnip mash with a bit of nutmeg.

            Meanwhile, I’ve found the good old traditional Lancashire recipe of celery and mayonnaise cake: https://lancashire-food.blogspot.com/2011/11/celery-cake.html

            

          • You can ruin any dish with

            You can ruin any dish with parsnips. Some people find the parsnip edible. Myself, I find this claim incredible

            I wonder if it’s one of these genetic things where people taste things very differently. I don’t like parsnips, but I really enjoy sprouts- which many people seem to hate (reportedly)

        • Rachel tried that with a
          Rachel tried that with a trifle once 😉

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          • Awavey wrote:

            Rachel tried that with a trifle once 😉 https://YouTu.be/G08pqAaJi5k

            — Awavey

            I wasn’t a big fan of Friends, but for some reason the beef trifle episode stuck in my head