[hawkinspeter]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/gallery/pictures-show-exactly-how-park-9868196

There’s some interesting changes planned for Park Street – looks to me as though their going to use appropriate design language for the road/pavement

Topic

[hawkinspeter]

chrisonabike wrote:

This chap needs to go back for a physics refresher.  Is traffic an incompressible fluid (“it will just go elsewhere”) or not (“there will be more traffic elsewhere” – presumably on another street which is “already congested”)?

Or is it failure to understand “if the previous ‘solution’ caused the problem to recur, that’s probably not the ‘solution'”?

“We had a couple of trees, but after a while they were full of squirrels – in fact they were running about and causing problems.  So we added some trees and installed more dreys.  Now there seem to be a lot more squirrels.  But the idea to fence off some of the trees and remove dreys is creating a problem, it just moves the squirrels elsewhere. To fix it we clearly need more squirrel capacity again, that’ll fix things forever!”

Can’t we just move them to Guernsey? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrdnkyvpjgo

[chrisonabike]

This chap needs to go back

This chap needs to go back for a physics refresher.  Is traffic an incompressible fluid (“it will just go elsewhere”) or not (“there will be more traffic elsewhere” – presumably on another street which is “already congested”)?

Or is it failure to understand “if the previous ‘solution’ caused the problem to recur, that’s probably not the ‘solution'”?

“We had a couple of trees, but after a while they were full of squirrels – in fact they were running about and causing problems.  So we added some trees and installed more dreys.  Now there seem to be a lot more squirrels.  But the idea to fence off some of the trees and remove dreys is creating a problem, it just moves the squirrels elsewhere. To fix it we clearly need more squirrel capacity again, that’ll fix things forever!”

[hawkinspeter]

Park Street car ban scheme

Park Street car ban scheme not ‘solving problem but moving it’:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/news-opinion/park-street-car-ban-scheme-10049226

However, the government-funded plans have sparked controversy, with some local business owners arguing they may be forced to relocate as reduced traffic could “kill Park Street”. Conservative councillors on the transport policy committee have voiced concerns that the traffic could simply be redirected onto Park Row and past the Bristol Royal Infirmary.

Conservative group leader Councillor Mark Weston stated: “We’re creating a problem, we’re not solving it, we’re just moving it.”

In response, Green Cllr Rob Bryher said: “”There’s been lots of literature that shows if you restrict through-traffic, then traffic just evaporates. It’s part of transport planning that everyone understands.

After the meeting Steve Smith, a former Bristol councillor and the Conservative mayoral candidate, said: “The business community have been very clear — this scheme will damage trade for local independent businesses and potentially force them to leave. Why do the Green councillors think they know more about what is good for someone’s business than the people who run them?”

Despite the outcry from local independent businesses, fearing the changes could force them to shut down, only 315 people have signed a petition against the proposed alterations.

[Bmblbzzz]

And it’s worth remembering it

And it’s worth remembering it’s not just Park St – it’s from Vic Rooms down to College Green. https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/park-street-improvement-plans-approved/

[chrisonabike]

It’s the invisible * motions

It’s the invisible * motions of cyclists “wobbling across the road” that causes otherwise careful and competent drivers to randomly drive into them.

*  Only visible in defence accounts in court.

[Bmblbzzz]

Really good news. Still has

Really good news. Still has one hurdle to get over, according to BBC, but they don’t say what that is. Maybe it needs WECA approval (in which case, I fear it won’t happen if Helen Godwin wins).

[mdavidford]

Is that like when cars are

Is that like when cars are forced to veer violently across the road by invisible cyclists?

[chrisonabike]

mdavidford wrote:

mdavidford wrote:

Hang about – when did water start moving in ‘random directions’?

1785, or 1827 – in terms of observation. Although I believe the theory has existed for a long time.

[chrisonabike]

Excellent – and a pity the

Excellent – and a pity the Beeb didn’t quote more.  (At least they got in his rejoinder though).

Don’t forget folks – “Under the plans cars will still be able to access the street via side roads but will not be able to drive from end to end.”

Some people * don’t want the slightest change to the motoring status quo.  Even while saying “there are problems, and we want to address them”.  And even where it may ultimately benefit everyone including those who use cars sometimes.

* Somehow – and it might be partial road.cc reporting – but somehow it always seem to be more often the Conservatives (joined here by the Liberals).  Although elsewhere Labour, SNP and even on occasion the Greens have shown that opposing checks on motoring and dismissing active travel is widely seen as a popular cause and a vote-winner.

[mdavidford]

hawkinspeter]

hawkinspeter wrote:

“Traffic flows like water. Once you start stopping it up, it then moves into random directions.”

Hang about – when did water start moving in ‘random directions’? I was under the impression it generally* followed the dictates of gravity.

[* Things like wicking and siphoning excepted.]

hawkinspeter wrote:

 “Traffic doesn’t work like water.

“There’s been lots of literature that shows if you restrict through-traffic, then traffic just evaporates.”

So does water, if you give it long enough.

[hawkinspeter]

I hadn’t read Rob Bryher’s

I hadn’t read Rob Bryher’s response:

Green councillor Rob Bryher said: “Water and traffic are not the same thing. Traffic doesn’t work like water. Roads aren’t pipes.

“If you block a pipe, obviously the water will go a different way because of physics. If you block traffic, that isn’t the way that it works because it engages people’s travel behaviour. It’s a fundamental transport planning principle.

“There’s been lots of literature that shows if you restrict through-traffic, then traffic just evaporates. It’s part of transport planning that everyone understands if you’ve done a little bit of research into it.

“People behave differently if you change the priorities of a street. It’s just as simple as that. You have to get your head around that a bit more.”

[hawkinspeter]

Also on BBC: https://www.bbc

Also on BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2jg18j122o

[hawkinspeter]

Park Street improvement plans

Park Street improvement plans approved despite some traders’ fears: https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/park-street-improvement-plans-approved/

Conservative councillors on the transport policy committee warned the traffic could instead be displaced onto Park Row and past the BRI.

Mark Weston, leader of Bristol’s Conservative group, said: “Traffic flows like water. Once you start stopping it up, it then moves into random directions.

“We’re creating a problem. We’re not solving it, we’re just moving it.

“We need to have a resilient road network where traffic can flow, not constantly keep limiting the roads that are available to use.”

So, if traffic flows like water, we need to be building aqueducts. Also, how can traffic flow uphill up Park Street?

[hawkinspeter]

Another day, another

Another day, another BristolPost piece about Park St:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/park-street-bus-gate-latest-10008820

Conservatives are demanding that “disastrous” £15million plans to close Park Street to cars and vans should be abandoned. Green-led Bristol City Council announced in January that a 24-hour bus gate would be installed at the top of the road where it meets Park Row at Clifton Triangle and a bus lane to run up from the Centre.

[hawkinspeter]

slc wrote:

slc wrote:

I think it has got better in some locations. For example, Baldwin Street and Victoria Street. Bus gates there have improved conditions greatly for me. I guess I might feel differently if I wanted to drive a car that way :)

Better in some places and worse in others. There’s still plenty of gridlock going on. I want them to bring back the rickety flyover by Temple Meads. (https://www.bristolworld.com/retro/bristol-redcliffe-flyover-nostalgic-pics-4145123)

[Author]

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