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Totally agree (and I'm a huge fan of my new Orbea D40 ebike). They used to pass me when on the ebike doing 25kmh and I'd think maybe they're a little bit dodgy but nothing too mad, now when I'm on the roadbike they'll come whipping by me on Chelsea Embankment as I'm approaching 50kmh. As you say, they're very easily identified by the enormous hub motors, but the police don't seem interested. I'd happily pay a small surcharge - say £2? - for delivery from a company that guaranteed its riders were on legal bikes and that gave the riders the surcharge to try to discourage suicidal riding. Amazed more aren't hurt/killed than already are.

ChrisB200SX wrote:

They are more like Sett Stones than Cobble Stones. (There may even be a different term for the laid brickwork as pavement.) Setts are sort-of cut to shape and organised, cobbles are sort of... cobbled together.

So setts are set out neatly, and cobbles are cobbled together?

Steve K wrote:

...

So setts are set out neatly, .....

Mine isn't, not with two cubs FFS....

Halfords have small print on their site now as do Go Outdoors but the big banner is easy commute from A to B.

I did complain to Go Outdoors but no reply !

hirsute wrote:

Halfords have small print on their site now as do Go Outdoors but the big banner is easy commute from A to B.

I did complain to Go Outdoors but no reply !

Then surely any purchaser could claim that they were misled by those companies and if convicted themselves, could sue them?

My thoughts exactly.  From D&C Rozzers reaction I'll assume that Deliveroo hasnt reached Cornwall yet.

I have unkind visions of a hayseed D&C copper chomping on a wheat stalk "Ordering a takeway with an app for 25% percent more than a phone call to the shop and eh comes on a bike? Ah yeah, geddon!"

yes I do think that could become an issue, because Ive started seeing more of this kind of bike on the road, and they look indistinguishable from a normal e-bike at a first glance, they arent like the heath robinson mash ups where some were adding petrol engines to bicycles that were blatantly obvious, and the riders rarely seem to be taking any of the kind of precautions youd expect for riding machines capable of speeds similar to motorbikes.

Its only when the thing cruises past you at stupid speed, if its capable of 30mph up a hill they are quicker on the flat,or just accelerates like it has a jet engine, you think hold on that aint right.

clearly its not the bikes are being sold like that and people are using after market mods, but how on earth can the police deal with it ?

TL;DR assuming the police always need to deal with it is a "wont somebody think of the children response."

You're exaggerating the situation somewhat.  Every deliveroo illegal eBike I've seen has been obvious at first glance.  Honking great black motor on one of the wheels and a bulky square battery on the back.  Usually some gaffa tape in the mix too.

And to be realistic regardless of whether mere their existence makes them illegal the reality is it only needs enforcement when they are being ridden in an illegal manner and any copper can spot that a mile off.  Add in the irregular enforcement of all the other things they are supposed to tackle (see the Audi below) and you're worrying unecessarily.

my worry is after an increasing amount of recorded ksis caused by modified ebikes, simply because the reality is if you crash on a bike at > 30mph its going to cause you more injury, and the added weight of the modded battery/motor is going to cause serious damage as it simply increases the kinetic energy involved in the crash.

that the politicians reaction will be to decide the only way forward is regulation,licensing, mandatory safety equipment, that applies to all 2 wheeled variants of bicycles & scooters because it will be too difficult to create workable exceptions in legislation that dont make the police job harder to enforce than it already is

and thats not a road any cyclist should be happy contemplating ending up being forced down.

Awavey wrote:

my worry is after an increasing amount of recorded ksis caused by modified ebikes, simply because the reality is if you crash on a bike at > 30mph its going to cause you more injury, and the added weight of the modded battery/motor is going to cause serious damage as it simply increases the kinetic energy involved in the crash.

that the politicians reaction will be to decide the only way forward is regulation,licensing, mandatory safety equipment, that applies to all 2 wheeled variants of bicycles & scooters because it will be too difficult to create workable exceptions in legislation that dont make the police job harder to enforce than it already is

and thats not a road any cyclist should be happy contemplating ending up being forced down.

There's already sufficient laws for two-wheeled motor vehicles that cover all those issues, so it's more a case of just enforcing them. I doubt that KSIs will surpass those involving four-wheeled vehicles as two-wheelers tend to take a bit more care as they have skin in the game (though there are plenty of counter-examples).

hawkinspeter wrote:

......

There's already sufficient laws for two-wheeled motor vehicles that cover all those issues, so it's more a case of just enforcing them. I doubt that KSIs will surpass those involving four-wheeled vehicles as two-wheelers tend to take a bit more care as they have skin in the game (though there are plenty of counter-examples).

That's never prevented MPs dreaming up and voting in extra laws. Especially when those laws can be enacted against what they see as an outgroup. Don't forget that drivists (with the encouragement of the motor industry) already kill 5 people a day, with little intervention from govt or the law.

Secret_squirrel wrote:

.........  Every deliveroo illegal eBike I've seen has been obvious at first glance.  .........

 That you know of. ....

Joking aside, it's one thing for you or me to be able to distinguish between legal and illegal quickly, we spend a lot of time riding (and looking at pictures of) bikes.

Captain Badger wrote:

distinguish between legal and illegal quickly,

That was kinda my point that I probably didnt explain very well - its rider/driver behaviour that mostly causes police stops.  The rider buzzing around at ~20mph with their feet stationary at 9&3 is usually a dead giveaway.  I would expect even a rozzer to notice that after its first pointed out to them.

Sriracha wrote:

Police seizing illegal vehicles? Excellent news. There are plenty more deliberately illegal vehicles they could seize...

Noooo, not that type of illegal vehicle.....

Sriracha wrote:

Police seizing illegal vehicles? Excellent news. There are plenty more deliberately illegal vehicles they could seize...

I couldn't help laughing at this one

"Driver walks home in tears after police seize his £400,000 Lamborghini"

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/01/driver-walks-home-in-tears-after-untaxed-...

eburtthebike wrote:

Sriracha wrote:

Police seizing illegal vehicles? Excellent news. There are plenty more deliberately illegal vehicles they could seize...

I couldn't help laughing at this one

"Driver walks home in tears after police seize his £400,000 Lamborghini"

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/01/driver-walks-home-in-tears-after-untaxed-...

Quote:

(The driver) apparently told police he could not afford the tax and cried when police seized his car.

...

The driver has until the end of this week to try and reclaim his car.

But he will have to provide several documents in his application, including the vehicle’s excise duty.

A Lamborghini Aventador owner would usually pay around £2,245 tax on the first year they own it.

They would then have to pay about £490 annually for the next five years, according to a tax calculator.

The car can reach speeds of 218mph with around 690bhp.

Wonderful, feel-good story

What must his insurance be?

ktache wrote:

What must his insurance be?

If I were to hazard a guess... nil.

In a similar vein, I saw 3 kids riding to our nearby school the other day. Only 3, I hear you say? Yeh, but they are the first 3 I've seen after living near the school for 17 years. Progress I think.

Not wishing to sound negative then as this school/area could be different, but Kesgrave High School just outside of Ipswich regularly claims to have 700-800 pupils, nearly 50% of its total student body group, cycling to school,one of the highest rates in the UK.

Which makes it sound like a cycling nirvana and a real cause to celebrate for change happening.

But it isn't, none of that school cycling translates into higher rates of cycling in the area amongst the rest of local population. The road alongside the school could provide regular selection of NMOTD spots. The kids literally just cycle to school & when they leave the school the bike goes back in the shed and they drive or get driven everywhere and like their parents then complain about the traffic and queues that causes.

stonojnr wrote:

Not wishing to sound negative ........

Keep trying, you're not quite there yet.

The optimist in me thinks they will take it with them as they grow older, more likely to have confidence to cycle in another city when a student, more confident to commute on a bike as an adult etc

stonojnr wrote:

Not wishing to sound negative then as this school/area could be different, but Kesgrave High School just outside of Ipswich regularly claims to have 700-800 pupils, nearly 50% of its total student body group, cycling to school,one of the highest rates in the UK. Which makes it sound like a cycling nirvana and a real cause to celebrate for change happening. But it isn't, none of that school cycling translates into higher rates of cycling in the area amongst the rest of local population. The road alongside the school could provide regular selection of NMOTD spots. The kids literally just cycle to school & when they leave the school the bike goes back in the shed and they drive or get driven everywhere and like their parents then complain about the traffic and queues that causes.

Do you know all that or is it just conjecture?

And anyway, even if all that is happening is that 700-800 children are cycling to school rather than being driven there, then that is something to celebrate.  It may not be 'job done' - but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be celebrated.