“Why I skip red lights”: Journalist makes the case for cyclists riding through reds; Finish fisticuffs as Benoît Cosnefroy grabs British rider after sprinting incident; Jumbo-Visma pro tests positive + more on the live blog

66 thoughts on ““Why I skip red lights”: Journalist makes the case for cyclists riding through reds; Finish fisticuffs as Benoît Cosnefroy grabs British rider after sprinting incident; Jumbo-Visma pro tests positive + more on the live blog”

1. Is this something people have

   Is this something people have read, yet?

   https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/aug/17/eurostar-derailed-my-efforts-to-book-a-bike-on-to-one-of-its-trains

   Eurostar … announced bikes could be booked on to services between 07.55 and 15.30 GMT from London to Brussels, and from 07.30 to 19.30 CET from Brussels to London.

   Cut out and keep this intelligence because it’s not on the website! And there’s a catch. You can’t request the bike booking until you’ve bought your non-refundable train tickets, and responses to emails take between seven to 10 days. If you’re lucky, you get permission to pay £45 to check your bike in; if you’re not, you’ve got a ticket that’s no use for a cycling holiday. 

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   • Yes, it sounds to me like
     Yes, it sounds to me like Eurostar could not care less and replied with “whatever” even to the Guardian journalist.

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     • Considering the multiple
       Considering the multiple gigantic suitcases that people can take on Eurostar and other trains, for free, it’s disappointing a bike has such a high charge and difficult process.

       And the reason it’s disappointing is because I’d love to do it and buy a ticket!

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       • momove wrote:

         Considering the multiple gigantic suitcases that people can take on Eurostar and other trains, for free, it’s disappointing a bike has such a high charge and difficult process.

         And the reason it’s disappointing is because I’d love to do it and buy a ticket!

         — momove

         I see opportunity for a business with premises at either end to rent out unmarked bike boxes
         “It’s just large luggage”
         “Oh, what’s in there?”
         “…OLED TV”

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2. round my way, I think drivers

   round my way, I think drivers should be banned from going through red lights. Remember kids, there are over a hundred pedestrians and cyclists killed by drivers going through red lights for each cyclist or pedestrian killed by cyclists going through red lights

    

   (possibly slightly misremembered DfT stats. Will dig out full comparison later)

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   • Yes, I’d just be happy with
     Yes, I’d just be happy with the current rules being enforced for drivers running red lights and speeding.

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     • momove wrote:

       Yes, I’d just be happy with the current rules being enforced for drivers running red lights and speeding.

       — momove

       If road traffic law enforcement is not a national priority (Active Travel etc.) then changing Attitudes is required to improve compliance.

       Over to the Department of Culture Media and Sports to act…

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3. Breaking the law whilst on

   Breaking the law whilst on the road is only an issue if youre on a bicycle. There is no where near the same level of outcry about people in vehicles breaking the same laws. Or other even more dangerous laws such as speeding, using a phone whilst driving etc etc. 

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   • jkirkcaldy wrote:

     Breaking the law whilst on the road is only an issue if youre on a bicycle. There is no where near the same level of outcry about people in vehicles breaking the same laws. Or other even more dangerous laws such as speeding, using a phone whilst driving etc etc. 

     — jkirkcaldy

     The result of media confirmation bias and widespread failure to take responsibility for compliance with the law.

     Related to the failure of road traffic policing that is supposedly a democratic process (Police Commissioner) i.e. that a majority can’t be bothered to protect vulnerable road users.

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4. “I find it is far better is

   “I find it is far better is to jump lights — which is why I say make it legal for cyclists to jump red lights and so much more in order to maintain our safety. 

   As I always give pedestrians right of way, the only life I risk by jumping a red is my own. Turning left at a junction? I believe it is far safer to do so before the vehicle behind gets the same idea and pulls me under its wheels.

   And why shouldn’t a bike go through a set of green pedestrian lights when there are simply no pedestrians in sight? “

    

   …

   “… before the vehicle behind gets the same idea…”
   “… THE VEHICLE BEHIND GETS THE SAME IDEA…” ???
   Are self driving vehicles available now?

   Or should the writer read http://rc-rg.com

    

   Not forgetting: “And why shouldn’t a bike go through a set of green pedestrian lights …”

   At least we can blame the bike for doing it, rather than us as cyclists… 😀

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   • mitsky wrote:

     “… before the vehicle behind gets the same idea…”
     “… THE VEHICLE BEHIND GETS THE SAME IDEA…” ???
     Are self driving vehicles available now?

     Or should the writer read http://rc-rg.com

     — mitsky

     I had presumed that the writer was referring to the common motoring technique of “They went, so I can”.

     Which can explain why two cars will be driven through temporary traffic lights after they’ve gone red, why one motorist will nip out of a junction in front of you with just enough room but then then the one behind will follow forcing you to emergency stop, &c &c.

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     • brooksby wrote:

       I had presumed that the writer was referring to the common motoring technique of “They went, so I can”.

       — brooksby

       It’s like drafting but for motor vehicles…

       So standard I can only assume if someone was pulled up on it they’d get loud and start saying “IT’S IN THE HIGHWAY CODE!” (I think for most people this is always a Spacecorps Directives moment).

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       • chrisonatrike wrote:

         I had presumed that the writer was referring to the common motoring technique of “They went, so I can”.

         — chrisonatrike

         It’s like drafting but for motor vehicles…

         So standard I can only assume if someone was pulled up on it they’d get loud and start saying “IT’S IN THE HIGHWAY CODE!” (I think for most people this is always a Spacecorps Directives moment).

         — brooksby

         Kudos for the Red Dwarf reference 

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     • brooksby wrote:

       “… before the vehicle behind gets the same idea…”
       “… THE VEHICLE BEHIND GETS THE SAME IDEA…” ???
       Are self driving vehicles available now?

       Or should the writer read http://rc-rg.com

       — brooksby

       I had presumed that the writer was referring to the common motoring technique of “They went, so I can”.

       Which can explain why two cars will be driven through temporary traffic lights after they’ve gone red, why one motorist will nip out of a junction in front of you with just enough room but then then the one behind will follow forcing you to emergency stop, &c &c.

       — mitsky

       A lethal combination of confirmation bias and failing to observe the Highway Code minimum separation of 2 second gap assuming a small vehicle in front (much more required for SUV, Van or HGV which block the field of view much more).

       Failure to observe, plan and execute safely results..

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     • Sorry if my original comment

       Sorry if my original comment wasn’t clear.

       I was picking up on the bad writing, implying the vehicle was thinking for itself rather than being controlled by the driver’s inputs.

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   • “As I always give pedestrians

     “As I always give pedestrians right of way, the only life I risk by jumping a red is my own.”

     As someone who’s been knocked off his bike by a fellow cyclist sailing blithely through a red light at a crossroads with poor visibility, and who has had plenty of near misses in the same situation, that’s not true. 

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     • Brauchsel wrote:

       “As I always give pedestrians right of way, the only life I risk by jumping a red is my own.”

       As someone who’s been knocked off his bike by a fellow cyclist sailing blithely through a red light at a crossroads with poor visibility, and who has had plenty of near misses in the same situation, that’s not true. 

       — Brauchsel

       That statement always annoys me, people always give pedestrians right-of-way until there is the one they don’t see or the one whose speed or trajectory they misjudge. Additionally, of course someone jumping a red light is not only risking their own life, firstly there is the collateral damage that may arise from other cyclists, drivers and pedestrians trying to avoid the cyclist who is “only risking their own life” and inadvertently colliding with others, and then, if the cyclist does lose their own life there is the emotional impact on the innocent third-party who is involved who has to live with the trauma for the rest of their lives, even if they are completely innocent.

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5. While I’d be happy for

   While I’d be happy for cyclists to be allowed through red lights in certain situations – left turn on red for example – I think it would be an horrendous mistake to allow them to run reds on pedestrian crossings. Just last night I was watching our bikes outside East Dulwich station whilst Herself picked up some shopping, in five minutes I saw at least a dozen cyclists run through the red at the pelican crossing whilst pedestrians were on it; at least half of them were riding in excess of 20 mph (it’s at the bottom of a hill) and had to swerve around people crossing. If this is the way people behave when it’s totally illegal, I can’t see any improvement occurring if it was made legal. Any legislation to allow any leeway for cyclists at lights must remember the hierarchy of road users and have pedestrian safety as its #1 priority.

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   • I would agree that any change

     I would agree that any change to the law is unlikely to lead to an improvement in the behaviour of those cyclists who currently ride with complete disregard for the law and the safety of those around them. But I don’t see that as a reason not to make those changes, if they would make life safer and easier for sensible, law-abiding cyclists.

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   • I know that crossing well,

     I know that crossing well, and have seen the same happen many times. Being as kind as I can to the wanton cyclists, I wonder if a warning sign further up the hill might help? If the traffic lights and bus gate are in your favour, you can pick up a lot of speed coming down (it’s about 12% I think) and it’s possible that some riders are caught out and can’t stop safely in time. 

     But then, I got sworn at yesterday by a woman cycling through a red light at a crossing on Camberwell Church Street. She was coming up the inside of a bus which had stopped at the light, and seemed aggrieved that a pedestrian was crossing at the pedestrian crossing. 

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     • Brauchsel wrote:

       I know that crossing well, and have seen the same happen many times. Being as kind as I can to the wanton cyclists, I wonder if a warning sign further up the hill might help? If the traffic lights and bus gate are in your favour, you can pick up a lot of speed coming down (it’s about 12% I think) and it’s possible that some riders are caught out and can’t stop safely in time.

       — Brauchsel

       To be honest most of them at that time of day are commuters who must know the lights are there. However, I entirely agree it needs more warning and I suggested exactly that to the council, the railway bridge would be a perfect place for a sign. There are certainly a lot more drivers running the light coming from Dog Kennel Hill than in the opposite direction, as you say, once people (especially if they don’t know the area) are through the bus gate light they are not expecting to face another light 50 metres on.

       The Camberwell Church Street pelican may as well not exist as far as cyclists are concerned, I often feel like Billy no mates in the morning as I stop and watch everyone else ride round me…

       (Apologies for being somewhat parochial!)

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6. Anti-cyclist Bingo 101 ‘I
   Anti-cyclist Bingo 101 ‘I once saw a cyclist ride through a red light so all cyclists are irresponsible road users’. Nonsense of course but what mainstream and social media says.

   Given how few road users are aware of the ‘Hierarchy of Responsibility ‘ in the last update to the Highway Code any changes would need to be publicised much better to avoid mistaken road rage and further unsafe behaviour around vulnerable road users..

   IMHO what we really need is a safety first culture not a might is right one.

   That requires the Department of Culture Media and Sports to regulate mainstream and social media to change Attitudes including mandating the PACTS Road Collision Reporting Guidelines.

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   • lonpfrb wrote:

     IMHO what we really need is a safety first culture not a might is right one.

     — lonpfrb

     Preach, brother!

     What we have is a “maximise motor vehicle capacity” model – which has, remarkably, achieved a high level of safety BUT at cost of convenience (or sometimes possibility) for all other road users.  That is – it’s only safe because most have been scared off the roads.

     There were signs of tiny steps in the right direction a year back – the instigation of the Road Safety Investigation Branch (to mirror the Rail, Air and Marine ones, hopefully).  But this may have stalled?

     Meanwhile there is a fully-functional “road-tested” system designed for moving people safely, quite nearby…[1] [2].  But … not invented here!

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   • This!

     This!

     So many drivists are completely out of touch with the latest HC and laws, so it would simply add to the ire of those already angry at those ‘errant’ cyclists when suddenly they noticed a lot more riding through red lights.

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7. Whilst I understand the

   Whilst I understand the reasoning behind Sophie Wilkinson’s column, I can’t help but be hesitant on such a subject. Not only because there are implications to such a change, and there are methods to make yourself safer at junctions listed within the HC anyway.

   Riders need to be more confident in taking up the Primary Position when at junctions, regardless of the direction you are going to take. Staying in a more central position (both legal and recommended in this instance – Rule 72 part 1 covers this) should make overtaking impossible at that point.
   https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82

   If I see a stationary line of traffic ahead (at a red light), I always check front vehicle position, and scan the line for safe gaps before filtering past. If the front vehicle is in front of the line or fully in a cycle box, and there are no safe gaps, I slot behind the last vehicle centrally. If the lights change whilst moving up, the safe gaps are the place to slot back into line as traffic starts to move forward.

   Also, the elephant in the room is that making such a move will be divisive amongst drivers to the point that the entitled minorty will take greater liberties when it comes to risk around cyclists. Considering that so many driving offences go unpunished simply because there wasn’t any evidence, I’m not likely to do anything different that might make me any more of a target for abuse.

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8. Seems to me that a lot of the

   Seems to me that a lot of the objections to the going through red lights idea are along the lines of “don’t break the law, it will just encourage drivers to do the same”.  But if it was a change to the HC then it wouldn’t be breaking the law.  Granted, it would be giving some road users a right that others don’t have, which might annoy the “have nots”, but too bad, that’s actually the idea, and wouldn’t be the only instance.  [edit: I meant the extra right is the idea, not the annoyance, although who knows, maybe that would be worth it too!]

   What I would also consider though is to allow everyone, including motorists, to turn left on red if clear.  This is done in some US states and elsewhere (turn right there obv, but you get me) and I am not aware of any major problems from it.  Correct me if you know otherwise though.

    

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   • Morgoth985 wrote:

     What I would also consider though is to allow everyone, including motorists, to turn left on red if clear.  This is done in some US states and elsewhere (turn right there obv, but you get me) and I am not aware of any major problems from it.  Correct me if you know otherwise though.

     — Morgoth985

     Well… reviews are mixed.  (Personally I’m minded to say this is not only not a solution, it’s not even a good stop-gap on the way to much better designs for junctions – now starting to be attempted in the UK also).

     Back in the day the US NTSA concluded that “there weren’t many serious crashes”.

     However Streetsblog (which can be a bit noisy – they are activists after all) says there’s evidence that KSIs here disproportionately affect non-motorised traffic.  Makes logical sense – another “drivers are looking for other cars” situation.

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     • Ok, fair enough 

       Ok, fair enough 

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9. I once got hit on a

   I once got hit on a pedestrian crossing by a cyclist*, so I’ve got some reservations about allowing cyclists to jump red lights.

   Fundamentally this is an issue about motorists endangering cyclists and the solution is to tackle that, ideally with better infrastructure.

   * 8 years old walking to the Post Office to buy sweets, I pressed the button and when the green man came on I crossed the road without looking.

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   • You still got hit though, the
     You still got hit though, the law did not protect you. There are cyclists who will not give way to pedestrians (a very small minority) and those who will give way. Those who do not care about pedestrians will already be running lights. Those who respect red lights will certainly respect pedestrians. Why penalise this group of cyclists?

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   • Yes, I have been too, and it
     Yes, I have been too, and it hurt alot, i dont think people realise quite how much 80kgs of person + 12kg of bike travelling even at “slow” speed hurts when it impacts you. Also had two near misses too, one where the cyclist swore at me for getting in their way,seriously wtf, and one where only my hesitation about stepping in front of a bus on a green pedestrian light, saved me.

     So no I don’t think this would help at all, plus it creates another dividing wedge between cyclists and motorists about rules on the road.

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10. In France there will be a
    In France there will be a little sign with arrows on the trafficlight telling you which directions you can go on red. Whether or not there are these signs depends whether or not there is a cyclist working in the local town hall (this can also be determined by looking at the width of the cycle lanes). I commute 50km by bicycle everyday in Paris and I generally go through red lights in the outer Parisian region where there is very light traffic and no pedestrians, however I would never do so (except at a signalled junction) in central Paris (there is just too much happening to be safe).

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11. Of course it is safer for the
    Of course it is safer for the cyclist to make the left turn before the adjacent HGV does the same. But I don’t think having cyclists jump red lights is the answer. Longer term I’d like to see separate lights for cyclists (like the little ones you see in France) that would go green ahead of the main lights, anywhere where there is a cycle box/ASL (which need to be the norm, not the exception).

    As for going against a green pedestrian light, just no. The answer there is to get rid of “beg button” delay. The lights should start to change in favour of pedestrians as soon as they press the button, instead of after they have already crossed the road!

    Swerving through a populated pedestrian crossing is just crass.

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    • I agree

      I agree

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    • Sriracha wrote:

      Longer term I’d like to see separate lights for cyclists (like the little ones you see in France) that would go green ahead of the main lights, anywhere where there is a cycle box/ASL (which need to be the normal, not the exception).

      — Sriracha

      We have quite a number of those in my neck of the woods (Peckham/Camberwell/ East Dulwich) and they work absolutely brilliantly, they should definitely become a standard feature.

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      • Rendel Harris wrote:

        … separate lights for cyclists…

        — Rendel Harris

        We have quite a number of those in my neck of the woods (Peckham/Camberwell/ East Dulwich) and they work absolutely brilliantly, they should definitely become a standard feature.— Sriracha
        A few in Edinburgh but they give only about a second start, which doesn’t seem long enough. Also is a bit of an early warning for the cars to start revving. I’m not yet convinced that they help much.

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        • TheBillder wrote:

          … separate lights for cyclists…

          — TheBillder

          We have quite a number of those in my neck of the woods (Peckham/Camberwell/ East Dulwich) and they work absolutely brilliantly, they should definitely become a standard feature.

          — Rendel Harris A few in Edinburgh but they give only about a second start, which doesn’t seem long enough. Also is a bit of an early warning for the cars to start revving. I’m not yet convinced that they help much.— Sriracha

          Yup, I’ve certainly had a few times where a driver on a hair-trigger driver sees green, any green and it’s go!

          I just thing these are a (hopefully) passing phase on the way to a much better solution (cyclists get their own completely separate set of lights – and because they’re on separate infra half the time these aren’t even needed…)

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    • Sriracha wrote:

      Longer term I’d like to see separate lights for cyclists (like the little ones you see in France) that would go green ahead of the main lights, anywhere where there is a cycle box/ASL (which need to be the norm, not the exception). As for going against a green pedestrian light, just no.

      — Sriracha

      Agree to sorting out the pedestrian lights* and not having cyclists ploughing through.  Although with a cycle path people and cyclists can safely cross without need for any lights.

      However ASL / “advanced cycle release” lights are pretty much still in the 3rd class category I’d say – not even sure Copehagen (2nd class) has them?  Meanwhile in 1st class road design land you avoid this issue by having (where needed) different space for each mode.  So everyone just has to deal with one type of traffic (motor vehicles, cyclists, pedestrians) at a time and there’s a space for everyone.  [1] [2] [3] [4]

      I know – “impossible” right?  “Costs too much…” – AKA “we chose to spend all the money and more on motor traffic”.

      * The totally unpopular and “impractical” (expensive) idea above might have the lights return to green for pedestrians and red all directions for vehicles if none are detected approaching.

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12. I think that racing involving

    I think that racing involving trade teams should be allowed to have bike development and choice involved as is the current case, but anything that involves National Federations, including World Championships and Olympic events, should be on standardised equipment. As there is little to no franchising in track racing, perhaps having events like 6 Days and the UCI Track Champions League involve trade teams to showcase these innovative equipment, and keep the “available for the public to buy” rule.

    I made a similar observation on TT bikes in the comments of a GCN video (I think what we would like to ban from racing) how TT bikes also favour the richest trade teams, and that there is no affordable equipment available to buy new that is anywhere close to what’s being developed.

    Ten years ago you could get a third teir groupset equipped alloy frame TT bike for well under £2000, and an alloy framed track bike from a number of manufacturers for as little as £700. But becuase that market was so small the equipment doesn’t exist any more (with the exception of Dolan Pre Cursa which is pretty much every velodrome hire bike too)

    getting into the competitive side of the sport has become much harder as a result, and the introduction of a Road Bike category at CTT level has gone a long way to help, but a number of people who are new to the sport but are serious about track or TT racing and are on a limited budget are unable to afford any dedicated equipment and are forced to look to the secondhand market, which is both fairly scarce of equipment choice, and a minefield of item condition and usability.

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13. So Ms Wilkinson’s argument is
    So Ms Wilkinson’s argument is basically – all the other road users behave badly and are breaking rules /laws so it is ok to do the same.

    Apart from that being a lazy Tu Quoque logical fallacy, on a more practical level: FFS grow up and be an adult in the room even when everyone else is a toddler.

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    • I don’t think that’s fair.

      I don’t think that’s fair.  It’s a call to change the law, not to break the law.

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    • Bradshsi wrote:

      So Ms Wilkinson’s argument is basically – all the other road users behave badly and are breaking rules /laws so it is ok to do the same. Apart from that being a lazy Tu Quoque logical fallacy, on a more practical level: FFS grow up and be an adult in the room even when everyone else is a toddler.

      — Bradshsi

      Well it’s a short article so I can recommend you read it.  (FWIW I don’t entirely agree with it, having better ideas in mind – but that’s something else).

      You won’t find “but they jump red lights too!” exactly.  The closest the argument gets is the idea that it’s safer for cyclists to get out of the way of cars – because cars may move when the lights are not green.  Not quite the same as “I shove people but you do too”.

      I believe it is far safer to do so before the vehicle behind gets the same idea and pulls me under its wheels.

      — Sophie Wilkinson

      I think ending doesn’t quite get the point.  The difference between motor vehicles and other road users is not the horsepower per se.  It’s that motor vehicle having much greater acceleration, higher speeds and the occupants being almost invulnerable – certainly at no risk from cyclists or pedestrians.  Oh – and that when scanning for hazards drivers are often looking out for other motor vehicles (the most frequent item / greatest hazard to them), not necessarily for all other road users.

      … The next election may be fought on the A and B roads between suburbs and out-of-town offices, but for London, home to nearly one in seven people in the UK, it’s between your wheels and mine. Let cyclists jump red lights, encourage them to filter through on the left in a traffic jam, respect that we’re all just human beings and some of us have tonnes of horsepower under us and others really don’t.

      — Sophie Wilkinson

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14. Why I don’t use the cycle

    Why I don’t use the cycle path

    

    “The path itself is covered with silt and debris and the safety fencing is mangled from where a car hit it. It is also wildly overgrown. It’s not exactly safe or attractive.”

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15. At least you had the backbone

    At least you had the backbone to share Dr Of All THingsd Bizarre’s post, Dan

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16. Agree with Sophie, not the
    Agree with Sophie, not the end of the world a cyclist crossing a red light, especially in a country where there are no jaywalking laws and a bicycle/rider can have the same weight and speed of a fast jogger.

    If we convince ourselves first as a community, then we may demand for it, with careful thought and adapted to local situations. But as I see here in the comments not even the cycling community is convinced about it, so maybe too early.

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    • cyclisto wrote:

      Agree with Sophie, not the end of the world a cyclist crossing a red light, especially in a country where there are no jaywalking laws and a bicycle/rider can have the same weight and speed of a fast jogger. …  But as I see here in the comments not even the cycling community is convinced about it, so maybe too early.

      — cyclisto

      You can always hop off, run across (perfectly legal as you say) and jump back on.  Then (IIRC) legally you’ve not run a red light.

      You still won’t make any friends though,

      Inconvenient?  A little, but you did say “…speed of a fast jogger”!

      I don’t think this is the way to go for the UK.  I don’t think it much improves safety overall, if not the opposite.  Yes, in many situations it’s no drama given “careful and observant cyclist” etc. but I think we will get the usual amount of predictable human fallibility, lazy and careless behaviour, the more the more people cycle.

      I am in favour of something similar (not getting off bike / stopping at a pedestrian crossing) which I do think would improve safety and convenience for all… IF we make a small but significant modification to the street layout.

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    • they dont have the same speed

      they dont have the same speed, you have to contrive up a fast jogger to make your comparison valid.

      the average speed of a jogger is 6mph, average speed of a cyclist is 12mph.

      that will make a significant difference to the amount of force/kinetic energy when you are hit as a pedestrian.

       

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      • It is somehow comparable with
        It is somehow comparable with pedestrians. A 1.5 ton car traveling at 30mph, is on a totally different level of kinetic energy.

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    • I think the cycling community

      I think the cycling community probably doesn’t see anything wrong with the idea intrinsically but cycling has never been about what we do, its about how other behave towards us. 

      Watch a video of drivers nearly killing people 20 times through dangerous driving, head on near misses that would 100% have killed someone and a single video of a cyclist going through a red light will have more comments and hate on it than all the driving ones. 

      Giving drivers another reason to hate cyclists is an awful idea even if it makes sense from a safety and traffic flow issue. If drivers weren’t so predjudiced against cyclists they would probably see the benefit of cyclists not having to stop and start so much in heavier traffic but thats sadly not the case. 

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17. My slight concern is that
    My slight concern is that there’s a thin end of the wedge argument – if you allow cyclists to go through red on the proviso that they do so slowly, carefully, ceding to pedestrians etc, drivers might reasonably ask why they can’t also go through reds on the same basis. I guess, to answer my own question, the reason it’s different is because (a) if the driver gets it wrong, the result is likely to be far more injurious; and (b) that drivers also need to obey traffic lights for traffic network management, which doesn’t affect cyclists in the same way.

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    • Is this confirmation of Road

      Is this confirmation of Road.cc completely disappearing up its own butt, quoting faceless comments in its own stories? 

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      • I believe “Own Butt” got

        Anyone seen “Own Butt”? 

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        • I think he made one album and

          I think he made one album and then faded into obscurity, although he may play Glastonbury next year.

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          • Wasn’t he a full back for
            Wasn’t he a full back for Port Vale?
            No, sorry that was Owen Butt. I think you are correct. According to Wikipedia Own Butt are still popular in Japan & regularly tour there.

          • I think his most well known

            I think his most well known song is ” I ripped my bottom open and now I wear a colostomy bag”. For some reason the BBC refused to play it.

          • perce wrote:

            I think his most well known song is ” I ripped my bottom open and now I wear a colostomy bag”. For some reason the BBC refused to play it.

            — perce

            Ah, that’s why I never heard it. The one I’m aware of is “Faceless Comments” – they recorded as Tinfoil Dave and the Cyberbullies IIRC from a Peel session?

            Was the unofficial anthem of the anti-LTN and ULEZ crew for a while.

          • Good knowledge sir.  Little

            Good knowledge sir.  Little known fact that Tinfoil Dave’s singer “Fire man” Nigel McStongArm Roulero provided backing vocals on the Chicken Song.

             

18. Pierre Rolland in the Équipe
    Pierre Rolland in the Équipe French TV coverage today said that he thought that if BC hadn’t given his comments in the interview straight after the race the commissaires would have come down more heavily on Askey

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19. I am going to declare red

    I am going to declare red lights a hate crime, then just ride through them.

    I will self identify as a law abiding citizen, I just need to be sure not to say anything like #LesbianNana to the police arresting me. 

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20. I feel like I’ve come back to

    I feel like I’ve come back to this thread and missed a really big change of tone… 

    Why the heated discussion of lesser known 1960s skiffle bands?

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    • Oh blimey! To claim “Own Butt

      Oh blimey! To claim “Own Butt” were a skiffle band could get you really into trouble in some parts!

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      • To paraphrase the Great Den

        To paraphrase the great Den Dennis – I’m leaving the group if we’re anything to do with the New Romantics skiffle bands!

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      • “Popular beat combo”, then? 

        “Popular beat combo”, then? 

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        • Ah, the four men who shook

          Ah, the four men who shook the Wirral.  Great stuff!

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          • were they not lads then, them

            were they not lads then, them wot did the shaking?

21. “99% of traffic installations

    “99% of traffic installations are there for cars, to solve problems caused by cars – so nothing to do with me, thanks” vs the idea that we have to set the example to drivers – e.g. I’m looking at you, Mrs horse rider with you ‘phone out yesterday, or idiot cyclist filming himself riding along the road a few month back.

    Funny how some wierd parity argument suddenly comes to the fore “cyclists will have to obey 20 mph limits”. Stop killing 4-5 people each day and injuring dozens more and we might think about it. 

    The red light jumping and pavement cycling are both lies that drivers have been pretty successful at installing in the public’s mind as “always” happening – a brilliant distraction from the industrial scale offending by drivers.

    All a big roundabout or one way system does is degrade life for everyone else; as with the Rotherham housing estate / no road markings story shows, drivers are increasingly having to be spoon-fed the most basic common sense or skill – which is all fine & dandy because the Road Tax and fuel duty (every Penny of which is bitterly resented) will cover the costs. 

     

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