“When cycling superstars promote SUVs, you know we have a big cultural problem”: David Millar blasted for showing off Ineos Grenadier 4X4; Remco Evenepoel takes 35 KOMs on training rides in Scotland; Is Apple Maps good for cycling? + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Is Apple Maps good for cycling?
I don’t know about everyone else but I avoid Apple Maps like the plague. For me, Google’s cartograph just works miles better when I’m out riding, or for any other navigation in general. But this Guardian article has set the age-old debate alight once again. Is Apple Maps better for cycling than Google Maps?
“…Apple has become more competitive with Waze and Google Maps on driving instructions, it’s on cycling and public transit that Apple Maps has built perhaps the most impressive resource yet available – with incredibly detailed instructions than can open up a city even for a nervous cyclist,” reads the article, written by Sam Wolfson from New York.
Now from what I know, I think Apple Maps works better in the United States than anywhere in the world, but transport journalist Carlon Reid seems to be a fan of the Cupertino-based company’s navigational software, especially for cycling.
He replied, to a frustrated Glaswegian who posted a screenshot of “Cycling directions not available”, saying that “you’re golden if visiting London”.
But you’re golden if visiting London. pic.twitter.com/IPzN2Q6sun
— Carlton Reid (@carltonreid) August 9, 2023
Other people also posted their preferences, with screenshots of which app was giving better directions.
Google maps gets it right. pic.twitter.com/nLgoslhCJh
— Ş̧̛̭̺͔͕̖͉̞̩͙͙̦̲͉̦͠t̛̜̼̲̬͖͙́u̕͞͏̥̪͇̼͙̮̺̣̣͕̹́ͅ (@stucoates) August 9, 2023
In my opinion, it’s this selective “goodness” that makes me continue sticking with Google Maps. But hey, I’m sure these are not the only apps for navigating when cycling. I’ve been using Strava a lot lately when out on my bike. What other apps do you use?
The Highway Code for cyclists — all the rules you need to know for riding on the road explained
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A massive public service piece for all cyclists in the UK, or planning to visit the UK, from road.cc stalwart Simon.
“From advice on riding position to dos and don’ts for cycling, we pick apart the official guidance for cyclists in Great Britain”
> The Highway Code for cyclists — all the rules you need to know for riding on the road explained
Evenepoel takes a whopping 35 KOMs on training rides in Scotland — Scot cyclists are happy to be on the same leaderboard
I know he’s a monster, a machine, a once in a generation cycling talent. But 35 KOMs on Strava? On two rides in two days? That’s pushing things way too far.
Remco Evenepoel, fresh from handing over his rainbow jersey to the new world champion Mathieu van der Poel in a magnanimous manner, set out on his time-trial (TT) bike in Stirling to prepare for the UCI individual TT championship tomorrow.
And in the process, the Belgian laid down the hammer so hard, that KOMs in Scotland’s central region, which have been established for years and haven’t been broken since, came tumbling down faster than a house of cards, setting the Scottish cycling community on Strava on fire.
> Remco Evenepoel uploads mind-boggling Giro d’Italia time trial domination to Strava
On Tuesday, he went on a 87.66 km ride, starting and finishing in Dunblane, and completed the loop with 536 metres of elevation in just under two hours, with an average speed of 44.9 km/hr.
How many KOMs on this ride? Twenty-four.
Just look at this series of segments. Evenepoel’s title for the ride fits, in my humble opinion.
And the next day, he headed out on a time-trial recon ride, once again starting and finishing in Dunblane. This time, 121.55 km with 767 metres of elevation, in just under three hours with an average speed of 42km/hr. Crazy? I know.
And this time, he managed to nab 11 more KOMs. Including one on what will rouhgly be the 47km long TT course for Friday’s race. I know that, and the ones along that segment are sure to be broken, but the 23-year-old, making his first appearance in a pro event at this multi-disciplinary UCI world championshpi event in Glasgow for the first time since his untimely departure at Giro d’Italia this May due to Covid, will be meaning business and looking to don the rainbow colours once again, especially after conceding his world championship title less than a week ago.
If I had to wake up to one of the ‘Uh oh’ messages, I’m sure it would ruin my day (not that I have any such experiences, because I don’t have any KOMs in the first place…). But Scot cyclists seem to be more generous and not as petty as your live blog host, so credit to them.
The Daily Record reports that one of the riders who was dethroned from the top of the leaderboards was Scottish junior TT champion Sammy Edgar. He had been delighted to be ahead of 7,000 riders in one segment near Stirling — until Wednesday morning. But even after he received the notification of losing the KOM, was glad to be in elite company.
He said: “When I got a notification that I’d been ‘dethroned’ I had a bit of a laugh when I saw who it was that did it. I’m quite happy to sit on the same Top 10 list as a guy like Remco Evenepoel. I hope he sets a bunch of new records when he does the big race on Friday.”
The KOM in question saw the Belgian average 41km/hr despite a 4 per cent gradient over a short hill. He pipped Edgar by just one second on the road near Port of Menteith. Other KOMs segments by Evenepoel saw him hit speeds more than even 50km/hr for extended distances.
Evenepoel, however, is no stranger to mind-boggling feats on Strava. During the opening day TT at this year’s Giro, he blew the competition out of the water with his crazy ride. None of Filippo Ganna, Stefan Küng nor Primož Roglič could get close, and the Belgian took the stage and opening maglia rosa of the race by a quite incredible 22 seconds.
Similarly, Scots also wouldn’t be too unfamiliar with pros stealing their KOMs on TT recon rides. Evenepoel’s countryman Wout van Aert also gave the country a visit in May with his Cervelo P5 TT bike for a recon ride. Van Aert claimed two KOMs back then, one of them being the Kippen Looper — which now belongs to Evenepoel. Bring on the time-trials tomorrow.
Flying Dutchman alert
It’s not Robin van Persie, it’s Mathieu van der Poel!
🚀 FLYING DUTCHMAN ALERT 🚩@mathieuvdpoel in full flow, testing out our Glentress Forest trails 🤩#GlasgowScotland2023pic.twitter.com/CpqQv0IZeI
— 2023 UCI Cycling World Championships (@CyclingWorlds) August 10, 2023
We found out yesterday that the newly crowned road race world champ will be participating in the Cross Country mountain biking world championships too, along with former world champion Peter Sagan, and former cyclocross champion Tom Pidcock.
Entries open on Tuesday for 2024’s Ford RideLondon-Essex – and will be first-come, first-served rather than ballot
Places for next year’s Ford RideLondon-Essex 100 will go on sale next Tuesday – and for the first ever time, they will be allocated on a first-come, first served basis rather than via ballot.
Ever since the event, aimed at providing a legacy from the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, was first held in 2013, hopeful participants have been required to register for the ballot.
The new entry format for hugely popular sportive spells end of the road for the dreaded magazine that informed hopeful participants that they’d missed out on a place…
“It felt like the Tour de France”: Have Scotland’s world championships been a success? We ask the riders, fans, and locals
After a build-up dominated by controversies over potholes, road closures, and route design, how has Scotland embraced cycling’s biggest ever event? Ryan asks the riders, fans, and the locals…
For Glasgow cycling fan Kyle, the prolonged bout of pre-event complaining is just par for the course.
“I’ve been walking about and it looks great. It’s amazing to see so many people in Glasgow. I was over in the west end yesterday, and it was lovely just seeing all the bikes and all the cyclists,” he told road.cc during the weekend’s junior races.
“But in Glasgow it rains about 300 days a year, and then when it’s sunny we find a way to moan about it, you know?
“The reaction has been kind of mixed. I know a couple of cycling fans who’ve been really excited. But then there’s people who just find a way to moan about it a little bit. I know certain events haven’t been too well advertised – people wanted to get tickets for the track, and didn’t really know when they were going on sale.”
Tao Geoghan Hart joins Lidl-Trek on a three-year contract
*insert shocked Pikachu face*
The least silliest thing to happen this silly season, with the rumour mill churning this news out for the last couple months, Lidl-Trek has announced the sigining of British rider Tao Geoghegan Hart on a three-year contract.
The 2020 Giro d’Italia winner joins Lidl-Trek from the Ineos Grenadiers, and will likely become the American team’s key GC threat for Grand Tours and stage races. He joins Tour de Suisse winner Mattias Skjelmose, this year’s mountain jersey winner at Tour de France Giulio Ciccone and former champion and elite sprinter Mads Pederson, as well as their new signing Jonathan Milan.
The 28-year-old was the victim of an unfortunate crash due to the terrible conditions at the Giro d’Italia earlier this May and had suffered a hip fracture. He was on for a top result at the Italian Grand Tour, and is currently rehabilitating in Amsterdam right now.
Speaking on this new chapter, Geoghegan Hart shared his excitement: “After seven years within the same organisation there are many different emotions to approaching a new challenge in 2024.
“The Team has big goals and partners who are willing and able to support those ambitions. I believe I still have plenty of growth as an athlete and showed in 2023, up until the injury, what I can do as a leader. I’m incredibly motivated to get back to that feeling and place, and I believe that Lidl-Trek will be a brilliant place for me to do so.”
⭕️@taogeoghegan is ready for a new chapter and we’re super excited to have him with us!
Read his thoughts on joining Lidl-Trek👇https://t.co/3cLNOo5Ct4
— Lidl-Trek (@LidlTrek) August 10, 2023
Speaking about his sporting ambitions with Lidl-Trek, he said: “I am really looking forward to bonding with faces both new and old within the organisation. I am really looking forward to see what we can achieve at races together. Personally, I see myself as a Grand Tour rider, but I am really hungry to try to take wins in any race that I line up at throughout the season.
Luca Guercilena, General Manager at Lidl-Trek, expressed his enthusiasm for Tao’s arrival: “Tao Geoghegan Hart’s dedication and resilience epitomize the spirit of Lidl-Trek. His journey serves as a testament to the power of determination, and we are excited to welcome him to our team. As Tao embarks on this new adventure, we stand united in our commitment to pushing boundaries, achieving greatness, and creating a legacy of excellence.”
What's the headline Mathieu? Van der Poel gifted a new BOA dial and a copy of the newspaper with his toilet adventures as the front splash
After Van der Poel’s visit to a Scottish couple’s toilet during protest made front page news earlier this week, following the Dutch rider’s conquest of the Glaswegian streets to become the men’s road race world champion, there was only one thing to be done.
In an interview with former pro rider Matt Stephens, Van der Poel was gifted a copy of the newspaper Daily Record with the now-famous and unforgettable headline: “THANK POO VERY MUCH”.
The newly crowned champion shed some light on Sunday’s incidents. He said: “They were really, really nice. It was a super beautiful place as well where they lived.”
He mentioned that the couple were rennovating the house, including the restroom. “It was getting quite nice in the inside, they were working very hard to rennovate it… Maybe I was the first one to use it!” he joked.
He was also handed a new BOA dial, after he ripped off the one he had on his shoe following his crash in the final few kilometres of the race on the rain-soaked streets of Glasgow.
He was also involved in some casual Scottish pancake slander, saying that it “doesn’t really look very tasty,” but I guess I’ll let it slide this one time.
Pogačar, on the other hand...
While Van der Poel was clearly not impressed with the Scottish pancakes, Tadej Pogačar has been having a good time with delicacies like the haggis… and “battered mars bars”. Apologies any battered mars bar lovers, I will refuse to accept that it exists (and even wonder why it does in the first place).
Evening Standard credits London Cycling Campaign as a model for potential climate lobbying
Evening Standard has credited the work of London Cycling Campaign as the model for climate lobbying.
In their splash of Tuesday 8 August’s newspaper headlined “Who will stop earth burning”, writing: “They pointed to how cyclists had successfully mobilised to get cycle lanes installed, also once controversial, but now widely accepted by most Londoners. They openly invited similar pressure to be piled on the Mayor to act over air quality which has significantly improved in recent years.”
👇 Yesterday’s @EveningStandard uses our work as the model for climate lobbying: “They pointed to how cyclists had successfully mobilised to get cycle lanes installed, also once controversial, but now widely accepted by most Londoners” #ClimateSafeStreets https://t.co/w2K2jqtTvT pic.twitter.com/sWeylV9bmO
— London Cycling Campaign (@London_Cycling) August 9, 2023
Four plead not guilty to breach of the peace following protest that disrupted World Championship road race on Sunday
Four people have appeared in court in Scotland to deny causing a breach of the peace in connection with the protest that held up the men’s elite road race for an hour on Sunday at the UCI World Championships.
Chloe Dygert storms to World Championships elite individual time trial victory on brutal course
Three years in the making 🌈
After a serious crash in 2020, Chloé Dygert Owen is back on the top step#GlasgowScotland2023 pic.twitter.com/0zsyDI7hMl
— UCI (@UCI_cycling) August 10, 2023
To say the American has had a rough ride since 2020 would be an understatement, and today she put it all behind her with another world title after winning the individual pursuit on the track last week. Dygert pipped Australia’s Grace Brown by just five seconds to win the brutal individual time trial on the road in Stirling, with Christina Schweinberger of Austria in third and Great Britain’s Anna Henderson missing out on a podium by just three seconds to take fourth. We reckon Brown won the pain face competition though…
Grace Brown completely exhausted after having put an incredible time into Chloe Dygert and finishing second in the Women’s Elite Road ITT World Championships pic.twitter.com/DEtxc35u7H
— Emma Bianchi 🩵 #SiempreGino (@cyclartist) August 10, 2023
For those of you who don’t recall, this was Dygert just under three years ago. We won’t share the image again as it’s rather brutal, but click through if you have a strong stomach.
Reaction to cyclists blasting David Millar's Ineos Grenadier 4x4: "Unethical promotion" or simply "mudslinging"?
What initially started out as scathing attacks on the former Scottish pro by social media users, have perhaps mellowed down and been considered as too harsh, as replies from road.cc readers started trickling in. It’s not all pitchfork defenders for Millar though, as there were still quite a few tongue in cheek backhanded comments issued at him.
Here’s a roundup of all the reaction. Starting with replies on this blog…
quiff: “I’m not aware (but happy to be corrected) that David has been a particular advocate for active travel or environmental causes – he simply rode a bike for a living, which is not exactly an environmentally friendly enterprise. So personally I don’t think he deserves particular disdain just because of his former profession. Just the normal level of disdain for anyone choosing an unecessary SUV.”
brooksby: “As has been said by various people on this site over the years, professional cycling has very little to do with utility cycling or with active travel or ‘green issues’: it’s just a sport. A bit like how Formula 1 has very little to driving to the supermarket.”
HarrogateSpa: “It is a bit different from just anyone choosing an unnecessary SUV because he is using his celebrity to promote this monstrosity.
And the chances are he got it free.
He probably has enough money without needing to do unethical promotions.”
And from Twitter, Paul Stewart’s reply to the road.cc tweet:
2/2 no easy answers to our dependency on those vehicles and it will take time to reimagine a world that is less dependent on them and facilitate application of a solution. In the meanwhile how about we stop the mudslinging within the cycling community which is doing its bit 😜
— Paul Stewart (@paulo_stewart) August 10, 2023
And on Facebook, Paul Best seemed to be “particularly not bothered”, saying that it’s “Millar’s business, nobody else’s”, and “as long as he continues to do good commentary” that’s all he’s interested in.
Andy Dorsett said: “Maybe look at all the other cycling superstars and what they drive and promote before pointing fingers at one person.”
Few others disagreed, including Tim Young, who wrote: “Drug cheat and proven liar promotes SUV. Says it all”, and Peter Sharp Gerou, who contributed: “Possibly Millar’s worst decision ever…including doping”.
"When cycling superstars promote SUVs, you know we have a very big cultural problem": Former Scottish pro and national champion David Millar blasted for showing off his Ineos Grenadier
Well, that didn’t go as he had planned, did it?
Former Scottish cyclist-turned commentator and pundit David Millar has been hit with scathing criticism after posting a video of his new, shiny toy, the Ineos Grenadier 4×4, with this really bizarre piece of text: “The INEOSGrenadier has landed. There’s a fine line between madness / genius and this car is owning it.”
What was Millar hoping the reaction would be like? “You go David! Ride this SUV like it’s 2007 all over again!”?
Perhaps unsuprisingly, people don’t seem pleased a bit with the former national road and time-trial champion boasting about his new, large SUV, and all sorts of criticism was on the cards.
I would automatically assume that anyone driving one of those had an inferiority complex, sorry!
— EngineerLikeAGirl (@LikeEngineer) August 9, 2023
Prof Matt Hannon from University of Strathclyde wrote: “When cycling superstars like David promote SUVs, you know we have a very big cultural problem re status symbols & conspicuous consumption. One which IMHO presents the single biggest threat to sustainability & #netzero, as we rely ever more on people to change their lifestyles.
“I’m particularly confused by this as David is such an important spokesperson for cycling. He’s an inspiration to so many, to take to two wheels and ditch four.
“I hope he can re-evaluate his values as they don’t seem compatible with one another. We need people like him onboard.”
> From cobbles to asphalt? Van der Poel becomes Lamborghini ambassador (and gets one himself)
While Jon Burke reiterated the danger posed by vehicles like large SUVs to not just cyclists, but children as well, writing: “Twice as likely to kill one of those children at 30mph as a small family car.”
More people tended to agree, including active travel and climate campaigner Charlotte Baker, who said: “This is a grim post…this vehicle is a totally inappropriate size and poses a danger to vulnerable road users, especially pedestrians and cyclists. Disappointing to see you promoting it.”
> “Greenwashing, pure and simple” – fury as Shell UK sponsors British Cycling
In a distastefully ironic twist, the Grenadier, while sat, honestly rather sadly, on a car ramp while on a tow attached to a… Volkswagen Golf Estate, was being watched in awe by three children from nearby.
During this year‘s @itvcycling coverage of @LeTour, @mrendell presented an important piece on the fossil fuel industry‘s sponsorship of the sport. What hope is there for change if even aware ex-pros like @millarmind think it’s fine to promote something like this? https://t.co/lPIS22V9gb
— Dave Fev (@davefev) August 9, 2023
Completely the wrong choice of vehicle at this point in the climate crisis.
— Retep (@reteptyne) August 10, 2023
I look forward to cycling to work with one of these trying to squeeze past me. That will be fun.
— Mounsey. (@rosemeyer1939) August 10, 2023
@roadcc this didn’t go quite how they intended…
— Railton LTN (@RailtonLTN) August 10, 2023
Yep, perhaps didn’t go down quite as it was supposed to…
10 August 2023, 09:20
10 August 2023, 09:20
Special edition of the road.cc podcast from Glasgow! We sum up our experiences so far and sitting down for a fascinating discussion with Aussie pro Michael Matthews...
Rain, rivalries, protests, new bikes and Michael Matthews interviewed: road.cc Podcast live from the Cycling World Championships
We're coming at you from Glasgow for this special edition of the road.cc Podcast, summing up our experiences so far and sitting down for a fascinating discussion with Aussie pro Michael Matthews
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Latest Comments
@Jakrayan God knows. On the country roads here (Kent) people are usually good at not close passing me but the consistently overtake me on blind corners etc. Oncoming cars on very narrow roads its 50:50 as to whether they will slow down at all despite passing me within 50cm. Once I get back into civilisation its a different story. Bad driving becomes the norm.
You could bé right. I live in a French Pyrenean départment with plenty of narrow, tight roads. About 80% of drivers either pull over to thé max or wait for a better space to overtake. Mind you, there's always thé odd one looking at their phone...
For a while I've thought this was an unfortunate brand name. Several times I've seen cyclists riding towards me wearing Le Col jerseys with their right arm covering the L so it looks like they are advertising e.Coli.
A driver in a BMW not looking properly at a junction? Who'd have thunk it?
@bennysnnock Which is why training for a driver's licence should include cycle training, of course.
As someone who previously worked in the custom cycle clothing industry, I have to admit this news did make me smile. I'm sure the brand will rise like a phoenix from the flames, but just the idea that they've gone pop has lifted my mood. Fair play to Yanto though, I'm sure the brand has set him up, one way or another, for life; he had a vision and he delivered on it. But, having been at the wrong end of a strategy that involved outspending the rest of the industry (on advertising) and out-discounting on retail kit, it's nice to know that their 'be the last man standing' strategy has - at least for now - failed. One trick (let's be fair and call it a strategy) that really frustrated me back in the day, was the way in which they used to give university cycle teams free kit. All very upstanding you say, however their motivation was more; 1. get people in your kit young and (hopefully) keep them for life - fair enough - but more acutely 2. remove decent revenue streams from your competitors. Uni teams were great because every year there was a new influx of members needing kit - so LeCol just took the market, not to make any money, just to kill it for the rest of us.
@Rendel Harris Absolutely. I was just making the point that Surrey has a lot of 'couldn't care less if I hit you' drivers whose attitude is get out of my way and if you don't that's your fault.
Their socks were all right.
@mctrials23 All those play out in Surrey pretty much every ride.
@Smoggysteve: Just buy the red version. It's faster—everyone knows that!
50 thoughts on ““When cycling superstars promote SUVs, you know we have a big cultural problem”: David Millar blasted for showing off Ineos Grenadier 4X4; Remco Evenepoel takes 35 KOMs on training rides in Scotland; Is Apple Maps good for cycling? + more on the live blog”
Yet another woman killed in
Yet another woman killed in the slaughterzone that is Battersea Bridge northside. But it’s OK because TfL are going to make improvements “this winter or in 2024”. The nearest bridges with (inadequate) cycle protection are Chelsea and Wandsworth, both a more than two mile round trip away. Still, going on the current batting average only two more cyclists or pedestrians will be killed before TfL get round to implementing “improvements”, which will probably amount to some signs and a bit of paint. RIP.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/battersea-bridge-cyclist-death-london-b1099800.html
I’m not aware (but happy to
I’m not aware (but happy to be corrected) that David has been a particular advocate for active travel or environmental causes – he simply rode a bike for a living, which is not exactly an environmentally friendly enterprise. So personally I don’t think he deserves particular disdain just because of his former profession. Just the normal level of disdain for anyone choosing an unecessary SUV.
I saw it on Instagram, where
I saw it on Instagram, where he also described the thing as a “weapon”. I told him what I thought of it twice.
quiff wrote:
That’s the thing, isn’t it? As has been said by various people on this site over the years, professional cycling has very little to do with utility cycling or with active travel or ‘green issues’: it’s just a sport. A bit like how Formula 1 has very little to driving to the supermarket.
It is a bit different from
It is a bit different from just anyone choosing an unnecessary SUV because he is using his celebrity to promote this monstrosity.
And the chances are he got it free.
He probably has enough money without needing to do unethical promotions.
His Instagram post does
His Instagram post does suggest it was free – his sister works for the Ineos Group.
My point is just that people seem to assume that pro-cyclists are automatically eco-warriors, which isn’t necessarily the case. Ok, so maybe the disdain for anyone choosing to use their celebrity to promote this behemoth.
Even with the SUV he’s still
Even with the SUV he’s still “a cyclist” to some (a sticky label) and therefore contemptible, poor chap!
His company sells it’s own
His company sells it’s own Brompton, so he is certainly aware of the term
Went to the shops lunchtime.
Went to the shops lunchtime. 30mph limit, I’m doing 27 downhill, get overtaken by a driver doing 40 who has to slam on for the car in front of me, then tailgates them to the end of the 30.
Why do people drive like that ?
Sometimes it’s because they
Sometimes it’s because they must get in front of the bike. Sometimes it’s because they just can’t abide a speed limit. Had this pointless overtake a few days ago in the car…
I go to my parents Thursday
I go to my parents Thursday evenings and on the drive back tonight I was on the A2 coming up to the Bluewater/Bean exit which I needed. It’s a long hill and lorries end up in the lane that turns into the slip road/exit, and there was a lorry a few cars ahead. It’s obvious he’s going to have to move to lane two so I just followed at about 50mph.
Cue chav in a VW polo. He swings across two lanes to overtake traffic and slices back across the lanes and traffic, with little room, to get ahead. I come off, round the first roundabout and onto the next, at the lights he’s the car in front of me. We come down past Bluewater and he moves into the lane for Bluewater, I’m going straight ahead and pass him. Well done mate, what exactly did you achieve?
Edit (hope that’s acceptable?): Just to add I don’t think this is something that is just an issue with some drivers. Generally it seems people, drivers, cyclists, even pedestrians just don’t have the ability to think ahead.
Adam Sutton wrote:
Yes. Just humans I’d say.
As far as “hare and tortoise” goes – not sure in general, but it’s seems much more likely you get hare behaviour (run – then stop) the less physical effort it takes to accelerate / travel faster. So in areas with plenty junctions / lights it’s cars racing ahead (MGIF) to wait for longer at the next set of lights with cyclists maintaining a steadier speed and overall going no slower.
That’s possibly one reason people on bikes in the road grind some drivers’ gears.
Twenty years ago when I
Twenty years ago when I started working in London on Southbank, in the winter southeasern (or I think connex back then *shudder*) were so bad in the winter I drove to work a few times as we had parking available being a 24/7 operation. It was headache inducing, trying to second guess what idiots would do just to get one car length ahead. Hence I only drive into London if absolutely necessary now, the last time being a couple of years ago to do some out of hours changes when public transport wasn’t an option.
I think you’re right about cyclists. There’s been plenty of times I’ve passed drivers who have just previously pulled a stupid MGIF move in London.
Re the Grenedier….. he’s
Re the Grenedier….. he’s probably got a very small dave……
I fail to see what the issue
I fail to see what the issue is with David Millar promoting the Grenadier (which is a great vehicle btw and all kudos to Ineos and Jim Ratcliffle for committing the billions of ££’s to it)
Why shouldn’t any person promote an SUV?
A lttle better, but yet again
A lttle better, but yet again not a vast improvement.
perce wrote:
I didn’t log onto road.cc till now, but it seems my comment has shaken the lefty tree and some rotten fruit has fallen.
That’s ok. No need to
That’s ok. No need to apologise.
perce wrote:
Thanks for that.
And the trees cheered for the
And the trees cheered for the axe, for as his handle was wood, and he was one of them.
Oh won’t somebody please
Oh won’t somebody please remove you from the cycloverse!
Dig it all up, burn it as
Dig it all up, burn it as fast as possible and move on. Technology will save us (presumably someone smarter than me will invent something).
Ratcliffe is a billionaire
Ratcliffe is a billionaire living in Monaco as it’s a tax haven but somehow claims to be a British patriot, which is why he supported Brexit. He said he’d build the Grenadier in Wales but then realised Brexit meant this was not economically feasible so he opted to build it in France instead, slotting in a German engine from BMW.
So he’s not that patriotic really is he?
It’s a very expensive car and given this thing called climate change, anyone keen on cycling and promoting a greener lifestyle to help save the planet from becoming uninhabitable would have to have a complete lack of common sense to own one.
Does that answer your question?
OldRidgeback wrote:
I don’t think anyone said he was patriotic?
It’s not really that expensive, not when compared to it’s peers – the Grenadier starts at £55k, the same as the Defender (of which the typical cost would likely be higher due to a higher spec) and the G-wagon, starting from £127k and the Jeep Wrangler, starting from £57k
So the sort of people that would own one – farmers, contractors, rural police, arborists, mountain rescue – all people who need to go off-road, with the durability/usability (no charging etc) that a diesel engine offers have no common sense?
They’re investing a huge amount into an electric and hydrogen alternative, which therefore makes it green.
The_Tory wrote:
Sorry, I was too busy driving around my farm in a FWD Mini to notice this yesterday. These pointless, oversized twat-wagons won’t be bought by farmers, 99.99% of them (like every other SUV) will spend their entire lives in towns and cities, far away from any mud or rough ground.
The_Tory wrote:
Which one is David Millar?
quiff wrote:
Notjustbikes has a definitive put-down on the “but we need pick-ups / off-road vehicles to … carry stuff!”
chrisonatrike wrote:
I like the bit about SUVs being designed to carry fragile egos
hawkinspeter wrote:
And them SUVs need to be LargE as the fragile egos are often inflated to “vast dirigible” proportions, only just fitting into the dickpit of their roadweapon. A featherwit fool in a tearaway tool for trashing and smashing. Onward to the hospitals and graveyards!
Often, the physical size of the murderwagon commander who’s tossing the thing about the roads and pavements matches their ego size, but not in a good way. Red-faced blubbermen with a shouty-hole may be seen glaring from the windees, especially at cyclists they’ve missed giving a push or prang.
Some of these immense oil guzzlers are jigged about by a woman with a lead foot who can’t see over the steering wheel. (Well, doesn’t bother trying, anyway).
But enough bashing of the poor SUV-thrusting victims of oily barons and their marketing shills! As often as not, they will murder & maim themselves with their toy, poor things. Where is their nanny when she’s needed? Probably run over in the driveway.
Username checks out
Username checks out “commiting the billions of ££s to it” – that’s a none truth worthy of a MP if ever I saw one
It isn’t. How much do you
It isn’t. How much do you think it costs to develop a new car? And not just a car, a new car company? A billion is a starting figure. The Mondeo cost £900m in the 90s. So unless you know better what the true cost is I’d suggest calling someone out as a liar is not appropriate,
Still haven’t seen one in the
Still haven’t seen one in the wild. Billions well spent I guess
WDG wrote:
There is nothing new about INEOS Automotive.
The real work is being done by Steyr Magna who are the biggest subcontractors in the business – designed and built the JLR iPace and a few others including building the some of the current BMW 5 series. They have their own modular platforms and engines, they are awesome.
The INEOS plant in France was bought lock stock from Daimler (Smart) and will be still building Smarts under a supply contract as well as a few Grenadiers.
They’ve done pretty well but so have a half dozen others at much higher volumes and ambitions (Ocean EV’s for example.)
Secret_squirrel wrote:
I suppose it’s easy to start from scratch, and directly recruit all the engineers and developers etc needed to design and build the Grenadier?
Loads of companies use subcontractors, it doesn’t mean that it’s not a “new company”
Wikipedia states “It produces automotive systems, assemblies, modules, and components, which are supplied to General Motors, Ford and Stellantis, as well as BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Toyota, Tesla, and Tata Motors” which by your logic would mean that these basically are not car companies at all then.
The car itself was designed completely from the ground up.
check12 wrote:
Oh dear, a clear example here of a Labourite misunderstanding of numbers and figures (particularly when it comes to the economy and business)
I quote from Autocar, the link is below for verification:
Speaking to Autocar, Ratcliffe revealed he has spent around £1.3 billion launching the Ineos Automotive division to date, suggesting a bill in excess of £4bn to launch the four-model line-up, even with the distribution and marketing channels established.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-selects-magna-build-small-electric-4×4-2026
And Kudos for him building it
And Kudos for him building it in the EU and creating jobs and investment in the EU (rather than in Wales as he promised ?. #brexthick)
BIRMINGHAMisaDUMP wrote:
I understand why they did it, but yes – this did feel like a bit of a cop out.
The_Tory wrote:
Why kudos?
It’s not British built, it isn’t providing British jobs. Just because Ratcliffe is British doesn’t mean there is some real value in it for the UK.
Legin wrote:
Because of the guts he had to commit billions of pounds to it. A lot will filter into the UK economy (showrooms, dealers etc) and plus the tax they pay helps fund your healthcare.
The_Tory wrote:
Not much will filter into the UK economy because it’s not made here and billionaire Jim Ratcliffe is a tax avoider living in Monaco. He doesn’t pay tax here because he’s a tightwad who doesn’t believe in paying his fare share. I say that makes him anti-British. As for the car being designed from the ground up, that’s bit of a stretch. It’s a modernised version of the old Landy refreshed from the ground up, fitted with a BMW motor and some new electronics. The degree to which it’s been reworked is highly debatable.
OldRidgeback wrote:
Err no, it looks similar, but it was literally re-designed from the ground up. JLR wouldn’t sell Ineos the rights to make the previous defender, and they even had a legal case against them from JLR because it was similar, but the long and short is, although in principle it’s not dissimilar, no parts are carried across.
The_Tory wrote:
It looks very similar. Listen, I don’t know what you do for a living. But I’m a qualified engineer and I was an engineer for many years. I know it’s not hard to reengineer a design so that you don’t infringe the design copyright and won’t get sued. That’s the Grenadier.
The_Tory wrote:
Show proof anything will filter through apart from a bit of dealer margin.
If MVdP had just gone on the
If MVdP had just gone on the boa website and add a photo of the broken one they’d send him a new one, oh hang on he chucked it away!!
I think judging anyone for
I think judging anyone for driving an suv while the whole cycling racing system relies on millions of miles of air travel is not very wise. If I want to push things even more, the increased food and meat of consumption of these athletes, will probably be much more than the increased fuel consumption of their suvs. The cycling races are a scaled down version of F1 races, and that goes well to their carbon emissions. And as said in the article, cycle races have little connection with active travel apart maybe from convincing some people to go ride their bike instead of a car. I am a practically 100% active traveller as I only commute (even the touring I did in the past I may have down similar miles by car) and cycle racers aren’t any of my heroes.
Btw suv really suck due to their dimensions. In a past job I was more efficient in routes with slight off road parts with a mini than the huge pickup truck we had, as it could fit navigate narrow roads better.
Was 2nd of 20K riders on a
Was 2nd of 20K riders on a segment in Tatton Park when Veloviewer updates me I have lost a spot. “Oh no you didn’t!” I am all ready to flag the offending driver… but no its Fred Wright of Bahrain Victorious just swanning through there on a training ride. My sympathy to the riders of Scotland.
Saw one of those Grenadiers
Saw one of those Grenadiers on the road yesterday for the first time. Hazards on, partway across a junction, broken down.
james-o wrote:
You sure it was broken down? In London that’s just standard SUV parking, leave it where you like and stick on the BOLAs.
Rendel Harris wrote:
I don’t think that’s just in London…
I’ve avoided Google maps for
I’ve avoided Google maps for the most part for years after a frankly disasterous “road” century in lashing rain near Bordeaux a few years back. It’s notion of “paved” stretched belief a bit, but then it led me up a forest track that became a brake pad eating mudfest that wouldn’t have been out of place on the Somme. The final straw came when it tried to insist I turn right – into a bunch of mature pine trees. There may have been some sort of “path” there at some point, but at best some distant point in the past.
It’s been Komoot and cycle.travel for me since – and it’s been a much happier experience