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"When cycling superstars promote SUVs, you know we have a big cultural problem”: David Millar blasted for showing off Ineos Grenadier 4X4; Remco Evenepoel takes 35 KOMs on training rides in Scotland; Is Apple Maps good for cycling? + more on the live blog

Join Adwitiya for your Thursday live blog with all the crazy stories from the cycling world, and maybe some non-crazy ones too. Oh, did anyone say there is a TT world championship tomorrow?
10 August 2023, 10:10
"When cycling superstars promote SUVs, you know we have a very big cultural problem": Former Scottish pro and national champion David Millar blasted for showing off his Ineos Grenadier

Well, that didn't go as he had planned, did it?

Former Scottish cyclist-turned commentator and pundit David Millar has been hit with scathing criticism after posting a video of his new, shiny toy, the Ineos Grenadier 4x4, with this really bizarre piece of text: "The INEOSGrenadier has landed. There’s a fine line between madness / genius and this car is owning it."

What was Millar hoping the reaction would be like? "You go David! Ride this SUV like it's 2007 all over again!"?

Perhaps unsuprisingly, people don't seem pleased a bit with the former national road and time-trial champion boasting about his new, large SUV, and all sorts of criticism was on the cards.

Prof Matt Hannon from University of Strathclyde wrote: "When cycling superstars like David promote SUVs, you know we have a very big cultural problem re status symbols & conspicuous consumption. One which IMHO presents the single biggest threat to sustainability & #netzero, as we rely ever more on people to change their lifestyles.

"I'm particularly confused by this as David is such an important spokesperson for cycling. He's an inspiration to so many, to take to two wheels and ditch four.

"I hope he can re-evaluate his values as they don't seem compatible with one another. We need people like him onboard."

> From cobbles to asphalt? Van der Poel becomes Lamborghini ambassador (and gets one himself)

While Jon Burke reiterated the danger posed by vehicles like large SUVs to not just cyclists, but children as well, writing: "Twice as likely to kill one of those children at 30mph as a small family car."

More people tended to agree, including active travel and climate campaigner Charlotte Baker, who said: "This is a grim post…this vehicle is a totally inappropriate size and poses a danger to vulnerable road users, especially pedestrians and cyclists. Disappointing to see you promoting it."

> "Greenwashing, pure and simple" - fury as Shell UK sponsors British Cycling

In a distastefully ironic twist, the Grenadier, while sat, honestly rather sadly, on a car ramp while on a tow attached to a... Volkswagen Golf Estate, was being watched in awe by three children from nearby.

Yep, perhaps didn't go down quite as it was supposed to...

10 August 2023, 16:10
Reaction to cyclists blasting David Millar's Ineos Grenadier 4x4: "Unethical promotion" or simply "mudslinging"?

What initially started out as scathing attacks on the former Scottish pro by social media users, have perhaps mellowed down and been considered as too harsh, as replies from road.cc readers started trickling in. It's not all pitchfork defenders for Millar though, as there were still quite a few tongue in cheek backhanded comments issued at him.

> "When cycling superstars promote SUVs, you know we have a very big cultural problem": Former Scottish pro and national champion David Millar blasted for showing off his Ineos Grenadier

Here's a roundup of all the reaction. Starting with replies on this blog...

quiff: "I'm not aware (but happy to be corrected) that David has been a particular advocate for active travel or environmental causes - he simply rode a bike for a living, which is not exactly an environmentally friendly enterprise. So personally I don't think he deserves particular disdain just because of his former profession. Just the normal level of disdain for anyone choosing an unecessary SUV."

brooksby: "As has been said by various people on this site over the years, professional cycling has very little to do with utility cycling or with active travel or 'green issues': it's just a sport.  A bit like how Formula 1 has very little to driving to the supermarket." 

HarrogateSpa: "It is a bit different from just anyone choosing an unnecessary SUV because he is using his celebrity to promote this monstrosity.
And the chances are he got it free.
He probably has enough money without needing to do unethical promotions."

And from Twitter, Paul Stewart's reply to the road.cc tweet:

And on Facebook, Paul Best seemed to be "particularly not bothered", saying that it's "Millar's business, nobody else's", and "as long as he continues to do good commentary" that's all he's interested in.

Andy Dorsett said: "Maybe look at all the other cycling superstars and what they drive and promote before pointing fingers at one person."

Few others disagreed, including Tim Young, who wrote: "Drug cheat and proven liar promotes SUV. Says it all", and Peter Sharp Gerou, who contributed: "Possibly Millar's worst decision ever...including doping".

10 August 2023, 22:12
Chloe Dygert storms to World Championships elite individual time trial victory on brutal course

To say the American has had a rough ride since 2020 would be an understatement, and today she put it all behind her with another world title after winning the individual pursuit on the track last week. Dygert pipped Australia's Grace Brown by just five seconds to win the brutal individual time trial on the road in Stirling, with Christina Schweinberger of Austria in third and Great Britain's Anna Henderson missing out on a podium by just three seconds to take fourth. We reckon Brown won the pain face competition though... 

For those of you who don't recall, this was Dygert just under three years ago. We won't share the image again as it's rather brutal, but click through if you have a strong stomach. 

10 August 2023, 16:07
Four plead not guilty to breach of the peace following protest that disrupted World Championship road race on Sunday
2023 world road race championships stopped following protest (Pauline Ballet/SWpix.com)

Four people have appeared in court in Scotland to deny causing a breach of the peace in connection with the protest that held up the men’s elite road race for an hour on Sunday at the UCI World Championships.

> Four plead not guilty to breach of the peace following protest that disrupted World Championship road race on Sunday

10 August 2023, 16:00
Evening Standard credits London Cycling Campaign as a model for potential climate lobbying

Evening Standard has credited the work of London Cycling Campaign as the model for climate lobbying.

In their splash of Tuesday 8 August's newspaper headlined "Who will stop earth burning", writing: "They pointed to how cyclists had successfully mobilised to get cycle lanes installed, also once controversial, but now widely accepted by most Londoners. They openly invited similar pressure to be piled on the Mayor to act over air quality which has significantly improved in recent years."

10 August 2023, 15:10
Pogačar, on the other hand...

While Van der Poel was clearly not impressed with the Scottish pancakes, Tadej Pogačar has been having a good time with delicacies like the haggis... and "battered mars bars". Apologies any battered mars bar lovers, I will refuse to accept that it exists (and even wonder why it does in the first place).

10 August 2023, 14:27
What's the headline Mathieu? Van der Poel gifted a new BOA dial and a copy of the newspaper with his toilet adventures as the front splash
Van der Poel gifted newspaper (screenshot, Zwift Youtube video)

After Van der Poel's visit to a Scottish couple’s toilet during protest made front page news earlier this week, following the Dutch rider's conquest of the Glaswegian streets to become the men's road race world champion, there was only one thing to be done.

In an interview with former pro rider Matt Stephens, Van der Poel was gifted a copy of the newspaper Daily Record with the now-famous and unforgettable headline: "THANK POO VERY MUCH".

> Mathieu van der Poo-el: World champion’s visit to Scottish couple’s toilet during protest makes front page news

The newly crowned champion shed some light on Sunday's incidents. He said: "They were really, really nice. It was a super beautiful place as well where they lived."

He mentioned that the couple were rennovating the house, including the restroom. "It was getting quite nice in the inside, they were working very hard to rennovate it... Maybe I was the first one to use it!" he joked.

He was also handed a new BOA dial, after he ripped off the one he had on his shoe following his crash in the final few kilometres of the race on the rain-soaked streets of Glasgow.

> "Going to end up in a Dutch cycling museum": Van der Poel rips off BOA dial on way to World Championship win with a broken shoe

Mathieu Van Der Poel glasgow

He was also involved in some casual Scottish pancake slander, saying that it "doesn't really look very tasty," but I guess I'll let it slide this one time. 

10 August 2023, 12:19
Tao Geoghan Hart joins Lidl-Trek on a three-year contract
Tao Geoghegan Hart at Giro d'Italia 2020 (CorVos:SWpix.com)

*insert shocked Pikachu face*

The least silliest thing to happen this silly season, with the rumour mill churning this news out for the last couple months, Lidl-Trek has announced the sigining of British rider Tao Geoghegan Hart on a three-year contract.

The 2020 Giro d'Italia winner joins Lidl-Trek from the Ineos Grenadiers, and will likely become the American team's key GC threat for Grand Tours and stage races. He joins Tour de Suisse winner Mattias Skjelmose, this year's mountain jersey winner at Tour de France Giulio Ciccone and former champion and elite sprinter Mads Pederson, as well as their new signing Jonathan Milan.

The 28-year-old was the victim of an unfortunate crash due to the terrible conditions at the Giro d'Italia earlier this May and had suffered a hip fracture. He was on for a top result at the Italian Grand Tour, and is currently rehabilitating in Amsterdam right now.

Speaking on this new chapter, Geoghegan Hart shared his excitement: "After seven years within the same organisation there are many different emotions to approaching a new challenge in 2024.

"The Team has big goals and partners who are willing and able to support those ambitions. I believe I still have plenty of growth as an athlete and showed in 2023, up until the injury, what I can do as a leader. I’m incredibly motivated to get back to that feeling and place, and I believe that Lidl-Trek will be a brilliant place for me to do so."

Speaking about his sporting ambitions with Lidl-Trek, he said: "I am really looking forward to bonding with faces both new and old within the organisation. I am really looking forward to see what we can achieve at races together. Personally, I see myself as a Grand Tour rider, but I am really hungry to try to take wins in any race that I line up at throughout the season.

Luca Guercilena, General Manager at Lidl-Trek, expressed his enthusiasm for Tao’s arrival: "Tao Geoghegan Hart’s dedication and resilience epitomize the spirit of Lidl-Trek. His journey serves as a testament to the power of determination, and we are excited to welcome him to our team. As Tao embarks on this new adventure, we stand united in our commitment to pushing boundaries, achieving greatness, and creating a legacy of excellence."

10 August 2023, 12:08
“It felt like the Tour de France”: Have Scotland’s world championships been a success? We ask the riders, fans, and locals
George Square fan zone, Glasgow, 2023 world men's elite road race championships (Thomas Maheux/SWpix.com)

After a build-up dominated by controversies over potholes, road closures, and route design, how has Scotland embraced cycling’s biggest ever event? Ryan asks the riders, fans, and the locals...

For Glasgow cycling fan Kyle, the prolonged bout of pre-event complaining is just par for the course.

“I’ve been walking about and it looks great. It’s amazing to see so many people in Glasgow. I was over in the west end yesterday, and it was lovely just seeing all the bikes and all the cyclists,” he told road.cc during the weekend’s junior races.

“But in Glasgow it rains about 300 days a year, and then when it’s sunny we find a way to moan about it, you know?

“The reaction has been kind of mixed. I know a couple of cycling fans who’ve been really excited. But then there’s people who just find a way to moan about it a little bit. I know certain events haven’t been too well advertised – people wanted to get tickets for the track, and didn’t really know when they were going on sale.”

Read more: > “It felt like the Tour de France”: Have Scotland’s world championships been a success? We ask the riders, fans, and locals

10 August 2023, 11:39
Entries open on Tuesday for 2024’s Ford RideLondon-Essex – and will be first-come, first-served rather than ballot
2023 Ford RideLondon sportive (RideLondon)

Places for next year’s Ford RideLondon-Essex 100 will go on sale next Tuesday – and for the first ever time, they will be allocated on a first-come, first served basis rather than via ballot.

Ever since the event, aimed at providing a legacy from the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, was first held in 2013, hopeful participants have been required to register for the ballot.

The new entry format for hugely popular sportive spells end of the road for the dreaded magazine that informed hopeful participants that they’d missed out on a place...

> Entries open on Tuesday for 2024’s Ford RideLondon-Essex – and will be first-come, first-served rather than ballot

10 August 2023, 10:58
Flying Dutchman alert

It's not Robin van Persie, it's Mathieu van der Poel!

We found out yesterday that the newly crowned road race world champ will be participating in the Cross Country mountain biking world championships too, along with former world champion Peter Sagan, and former cyclocross champion Tom Pidcock.

10 August 2023, 08:25
Evenepoel takes a whopping 35 KOMs on training rides in Scotland — Scot cyclists are happy to be on the same leaderboard
Remco Evenepoel takes 35 KOMs in Scotland (image: Zac Williams/SWpix.com)

I know he's a monster, a machine, a once in a generation cycling talent. But 35 KOMs on Strava? On two rides in two days? That's pushing things way too far. 

Remco Evenepoel, fresh from handing over his rainbow jersey to the new world champion Mathieu van der Poel in a magnanimous manner,  set out on his time-trial (TT) bike in Stirling to prepare for the UCI individual TT championship tomorrow.

And in the process, the Belgian laid down the hammer so hard, that KOMs in Scotland's central region, which have been established for years and haven't been broken since, came tumbling down faster than a house of cards, setting the Scottish cycling community on Strava on fire.

> Remco Evenepoel uploads mind-boggling Giro d'Italia time trial domination to Strava

On Tuesday, he went on a 87.66 km ride, starting and finishing in Dunblane, and completed the loop with 536 metres of elevation in just under two hours, with an average speed of 44.9 km/hr.

How many KOMs on this ride? Twenty-four.

 

Just look at this series of segments. Evenepoel's title for the ride fits, in my humble opinion.

Evenepoel Strava KOM segments, Stirling

And the next day, he headed out on a time-trial recon ride, once again starting and finishing in Dunblane. This time, 121.55 km with 767 metres of elevation, in just under three hours with an average speed of 42km/hr. Crazy? I know.

And this time, he managed to nab 11 more KOMs. Including one on what will rouhgly be the 47km long TT course for Friday's race. I know that, and the ones along that segment are sure to be broken, but the 23-year-old, making his first appearance in a pro event at this multi-disciplinary UCI world championshpi event in Glasgow for the first time since his untimely departure at Giro d'Italia this May due to Covid, will be meaning business and looking to don the rainbow colours once again, especially after conceding his world championship title less than a week ago.

 

If I had to wake up to one of the 'Uh oh' messages, I'm sure it would ruin my day (not that I have any such experiences, because I don't have any KOMs in the first place...). But Scot cyclists seem to be more generous and not as petty as your live blog host, so credit to them. 

The Daily Record reports that one of the riders who was dethroned from the top of the leaderboards was Scottish junior TT champion Sammy Edgar. He had been delighted to be ahead of 7,000 riders in one segment near Stirling — until Wednesday morning. But even after he received the notification of losing the KOM, was glad to be in elite company.

He said: "When I got a notification that I’d been ‘dethroned’ I had a bit of a laugh when I saw who it was that did it. I’m quite happy to sit on the same Top 10 list as a guy like Remco Evenepoel. I hope he sets a bunch of new records when he does the big race on Friday."

The KOM in question saw the Belgian average 41km/hr despite a 4 per cent gradient over a short hill. He pipped Edgar by just one second on the road near Port of Menteith. Other KOMs segments by Evenepoel saw him hit speeds more than even 50km/hr for extended distances.

Evenepoel, however, is no stranger to mind-boggling feats on Strava. During the opening day TT at this year's Giro, he blew the competition out of the water with his crazy ride. None of Filippo Ganna, Stefan Küng nor Primož Roglič could get close, and the Belgian took the stage and opening maglia rosa of the race by a quite incredible 22 seconds.

Similarly, Scots also wouldn't be too unfamiliar with pros stealing their KOMs on TT recon rides. Evenepoel's countryman Wout van Aert also gave the country a visit in May with his Cervelo P5 TT bike for a recon ride. Van Aert claimed two KOMs back then, one of them being the Kippen Looper — which now belongs to Evenepoel. Bring on the time-trials tomorrow.

> Wout van Aert takes time trial bike to Scotland for World Championships recon —then rides an OVO bike on Glasgow’s “risky” streets

10 August 2023, 09:56
The Highway Code for cyclists — all the rules you need to know for riding on the road explained
Cyclist and bus in London (copyright Simon MacMichael)

A massive public service piece for all cyclists in the UK, or planning to visit the UK, from road.cc stalwart Simon.

"From advice on riding position to dos and don’ts for cycling, we pick apart the official guidance for cyclists in Great Britain"

> The Highway Code for cyclists — all the rules you need to know for riding on the road explained

10 August 2023, 09:40
Is Apple Maps good for cycling?

I don't know about everyone else but I avoid Apple Maps like the plague. For me, Google's cartograph just works miles better when I'm out riding, or for any other navigation in general. But this Guardian article has set the age-old debate alight once again. Is Apple Maps better for cycling than Google Maps?

"...Apple has become more competitive with Waze and Google Maps on driving instructions, it’s on cycling and public transit that Apple Maps has built perhaps the most impressive resource yet available – with incredibly detailed instructions than can open up a city even for a nervous cyclist," reads the article, written by Sam Wolfson from New York.

Now from what I know, I think Apple Maps works better in the United States than anywhere in the world, but transport journalist Carlon Reid seems to be a fan of the Cupertino-based company's navigational software, especially for cycling.

He replied, to a frustrated Glaswegian who posted a screenshot of "Cycling directions not available", saying that "you're golden if visiting London".

Other people also posted their preferences, with screenshots of which app was giving better directions.

In my opinion, it's this selective "goodness" that makes me continue sticking with Google Maps. But hey, I'm sure these are not the only apps for navigating when cycling. I've been using Strava a lot lately when out on my bike. What other apps do you use?

Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after graduating with a masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Wales, and also likes to writes about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.

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50 comments

Avatar
JMcL_Ireland | 11 months ago
0 likes

I've avoided Google maps for the most part for years after a frankly disasterous "road" century in lashing rain near Bordeaux a few years back. It's notion of "paved" stretched belief a bit, but then it led me up a forest track that became a brake pad eating mudfest that wouldn't have been out of place on the Somme. The final straw came when it tried to insist I turn right - into a bunch of mature pine trees. There may have been some sort of "path" there at some point, but at best some distant point in the past.

It's been Komoot and cycle.travel for me since - and it's been a much happier experience

Avatar
james-o | 11 months ago
6 likes

Saw one of those Grenadiers on the road yesterday for the first time. Hazards on, partway across a junction, broken down. 

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to james-o | 11 months ago
5 likes

james-o wrote:

Saw one of those Grenadiers on the road yesterday for the first time. Hazards on, partway across a junction, broken down. 

You sure it was broken down? In London that's just standard SUV parking, leave it where you like and stick on the BOLAs.

Avatar
brooksby replied to Rendel Harris | 11 months ago
2 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

james-o wrote:

Saw one of those Grenadiers on the road yesterday for the first time. Hazards on, partway across a junction, broken down. 

You sure it was broken down? In London that's just standard SUV parking, leave it where you like and stick on the BOLAs.

I don't think that's just in London...

Avatar
Organon | 11 months ago
4 likes

Was 2nd of 20K riders on a segment in Tatton Park when Veloviewer updates me I have lost a spot. "Oh no you didn't!" I am all ready to flag the offending driver... but no its Fred Wright of Bahrain Victorious just swanning through there on a training ride. My sympathy to the riders of Scotland.

Avatar
cyclisto | 11 months ago
1 like

I think judging anyone for driving an suv while the whole cycling racing system relies on millions of miles of air travel is not very wise. If I want to push things even more, the increased food and meat of consumption of these athletes, will probably be much more than the increased fuel consumption of their suvs. The cycling races are a scaled down version of F1 races, and that goes well to their carbon emissions. And as said in the article, cycle races have little connection with active travel apart maybe from convincing some people to go ride their bike instead of a car. I am a practically 100% active traveller as I only commute (even the touring I did in the past I may have down similar miles by car) and cycle racers aren't any of my heroes.
Btw suv really suck due to their dimensions. In a past job I was more efficient in routes with slight off road parts with a mini than the huge pickup truck we had, as it could fit navigate narrow roads better.

Avatar
anagallis_arvensis | 11 months ago
2 likes

If MVdP had just gone on the boa website and add a photo of the broken one they'd send him a new one, oh hang on he chucked it away!!

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
1 like

I fail to see what the issue is with David Millar promoting the Grenadier (which is a great vehicle btw and all kudos to Ineos and Jim Ratcliffle for committing the billions of ££'s to it)

Why shouldn't any person promote an SUV? 

Avatar
perce replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
9 likes

A lttle better, but yet again not a vast improvement.

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers replied to perce | 11 months ago
0 likes

perce wrote:

A lttle better, but yet again not a vast improvement.

I didn't log onto road.cc till now, but it seems my comment has shaken the lefty tree and some rotten fruit has fallen. 

Avatar
perce replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
4 likes

That's ok. No need to apologise.

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to perce | 11 months ago
0 likes

perce wrote:

That's ok. No need to apologise.

Thanks for that. 

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Patrick9-32 replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
13 likes

And the trees cheered for the axe, for as his handle was wood, and he was one of them. 

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MattieKempy replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
8 likes

Oh won't somebody please remove you from the cycloverse!

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levestane replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
2 likes

Dig it all up, burn it as fast as possible and move on. Technology will save us (presumably someone smarter than me will invent something).

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OldRidgeback replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
16 likes

Ratcliffe is a billionaire living in Monaco as it's a tax haven but somehow claims to be a British patriot, which is why he supported Brexit. He said he'd build the Grenadier in Wales but then realised Brexit meant this was not economically feasible so he opted to build it in France instead, slotting in a German engine from BMW. 

So he's not that patriotic really is he? 

It's a very expensive car and given this thing called climate change, anyone keen on cycling and promoting a greener lifestyle to help save the planet from becoming uninhabitable would have to have a complete lack of common sense to own one.

Does that answer your question?

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers replied to OldRidgeback | 11 months ago
0 likes

OldRidgeback wrote:

So he's not that patriotic really is he? 

It's a very expensive car and given this thing called climate change, anyone keen on cycling and promoting a greener lifestyle to help save the planet from becoming uninhabitable would have to have a complete lack of common sense to own one.

Does that answer your question?

I don't think anyone said he was patriotic? 

It's not really that expensive, not when compared to it's peers - the Grenadier starts at £55k, the same as the Defender (of which the typical cost would likely be higher due to a higher spec) and the G-wagon, starting from £127k and the Jeep Wrangler, starting from £57k 

So the sort of people that would own one - farmers, contractors, rural police, arborists, mountain rescue - all people who need to go off-road, with the durability/usability (no charging etc) that a diesel engine offers have no common sense?

They're investing a huge amount into an electric and hydrogen alternative, which therefore makes it green. 

Avatar
BalladOfStruth replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
5 likes

The_Tory wrote:

So the sort of people that would own one - farmers, contractors, rural police, arborists, mountain rescue - all people who need to go off-road, with the durability/usability (no charging etc) that a diesel engine offers have no common sense?

Sorry, I was too busy driving around my farm in a FWD Mini to notice this yesterday. These pointless, oversized twat-wagons won't be bought by farmers, 99.99% of them (like every other SUV) will spend their entire lives in towns and cities, far away from any mud or rough ground.

Avatar
quiff replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
3 likes

The_Tory wrote:

So the sort of people that would own one - farmers, contractors, rural police, arborists, mountain rescue - all people who need to go off-road, with the durability/usability (no charging etc) that a diesel engine offers have no common sense?

Which one is David Millar?

Avatar
chrisonabike replied to quiff | 11 months ago
3 likes

quiff wrote:

The_Tory wrote:

So the sort of people that would own one - farmers, contractors, rural police, arborists, mountain rescue - all people who need to go off-road, with the durability/usability (no charging etc) that a diesel engine offers have no common sense?

Which one is David Millar?

Notjustbikes has a definitive put-down on the "but we need pick-ups / off-road vehicles to ... carry stuff!"

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hawkinspeter replied to chrisonabike | 11 months ago
2 likes

chrisonatrike wrote:

Notjustbikes has a definitive put-down on the "but we need pick-ups / off-road vehicles to ... carry stuff!"

I like the bit about SUVs being designed to carry fragile egos

Avatar
Cugel replied to hawkinspeter | 11 months ago
2 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

chrisonatrike wrote:

Notjustbikes has a definitive put-down on the "but we need pick-ups / off-road vehicles to ... carry stuff!"

I like the bit about SUVs being designed to carry fragile egos

And them SUVs need to be LargE as the fragile egos are often inflated to "vast dirigible" proportions, only just fitting into the dickpit of their roadweapon. A featherwit fool in a tearaway tool for trashing and smashing. Onward to the hospitals and graveyards!

Often, the physical size of the murderwagon commander who's tossing the thing about the roads and pavements matches their ego size, but not in a good way. Red-faced blubbermen with a shouty-hole may be seen glaring from the windees, especially at cyclists they've missed giving a push or prang. 

Some of these immense oil guzzlers are jigged about by a woman with a lead foot who can't see over the steering wheel. (Well, doesn't bother trying, anyway).

But enough bashing of the poor SUV-thrusting victims of oily barons and their marketing shills!  As often as not, they will murder & maim themselves with their toy, poor things. Where is their nanny when she's needed? Probably run over in the driveway.

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check12 replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
5 likes

Username checks out "commiting the billions of ££s to it" - that's a none truth worthy of a MP if ever I saw one 

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WDG replied to check12 | 11 months ago
1 like

It isn't.  How much do you think it costs to develop a new car?  And not just a car, a new car company?  A billion is a starting figure.  The Mondeo cost £900m in the 90s.  So unless you know better what the true cost is I'd suggest calling someone out as a liar is not appropriate,

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Clem Fandango replied to WDG | 11 months ago
5 likes

Still haven't seen one in the wild. Billions well spent I guess

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Secret_squirrel replied to WDG | 11 months ago
4 likes

WDG wrote:

 And not just a car, a new car company?  A billion is a starting figure. 

There is nothing new about INEOS Automotive.  

The real work is being done by Steyr Magna who are the biggest subcontractors in the business - designed and built the JLR iPace and a few others including building the some of the current BMW 5 series.  They have their own modular platforms and engines, they are awesome.

The INEOS plant in France was bought lock stock from Daimler (Smart) and will be still building Smarts under a supply contract as well as a few Grenadiers.

They've done pretty well but so have a half dozen others at much higher volumes and ambitions (Ocean EV's for example.)

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers replied to Secret_squirrel | 11 months ago
0 likes

Secret_squirrel wrote:

There is nothing new about INEOS Automotive.  

The real work is being done by Steyr Magna who are the biggest subcontractors in the business - designed and built the JLR iPace and a few others including building the some of the current BMW 5 series.  They have their own modular platforms and engines, they are awesome.

The INEOS plant in France was bought lock stock from Daimler (Smart) and will be still building Smarts under a supply contract as well as a few Grenadiers.

They've done pretty well but so have a half dozen others at much higher volumes and ambitions (Ocean EV's for example.)

I suppose it's easy to start from scratch, and directly recruit all the engineers and developers etc needed to design and build the Grenadier? 

Loads of companies use subcontractors, it doesn't mean that it's not a "new company"

Wikipedia states "It produces automotive systems, assemblies, modules, and components, which are supplied to General Motors, Ford and Stellantis, as well as BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Toyota, Tesla, and Tata Motors" which by your logic would mean that these basically are not car companies at all then. 

The car itself was designed completely from the ground up. 

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to check12 | 11 months ago
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check12 wrote:

Username checks out "commiting the billions of ££s to it" - that's a none truth worthy of a MP if ever I saw one 

Oh dear, a clear example here of a Labourite misunderstanding of numbers and figures (particularly when it comes to the economy and business)

I quote from Autocar, the link is below for verification:

Speaking to Autocar, Ratcliffe revealed he has spent around £1.3 billion launching the Ineos Automotive division to date, suggesting a bill in excess of £4bn to launch the four-model line-up, even with the distribution and marketing channels established. 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-selects-magna-build-sm...

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Rome73 replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 11 months ago
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And Kudos for him building it in the EU and creating jobs and investment in the EU (rather than in Wales as he promised 😂.  #brexthick) 

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to Rome73 | 11 months ago
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BIRMINGHAMisaDUMP wrote:

And Kudos for him building it in the EU and creating jobs and investment in the EU (rather than in Wales as he promised 😂.  #brexthick) 

I understand why they did it, but yes - this did feel like a bit of a cop out. 

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