Confusion as driver blames 20mph zone for preventing her overtaking cyclists… despite them riding at the speed limit; Huge Drum & Bass On The Bike crowd; Thibaut Pinot retirement party; Anyone for cycling limbo?; Weekend round-up + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
"Phenomenal experience": Huge Drum & Bass On The Bike crowds light up latest city
The challenge for Dom Whiting was working out how to best last year?
Sheffield… Can we beat last year’s Drum & Bass On The Bike turn out?! pic.twitter.com/eA5quaON0u
— Domonic (@domwhiting) October 5, 2023
From the footage we’ve seen doing the rounds on social media since yesterday, that would be a yes…
Fab day for the #sheffieldmasscycle with #drumandbass blaring out of speakers powered by @domwhiting in #sheffield. The sun was shining, the music was banging and there were a hell of of lot of people #cycling and having fun. More #activetravel please pic.twitter.com/dG5sJep5cq
— Lorraine (@lozclarke4) October 8, 2023
#SheffieldMassCycle – phenomenal experience !!! So many bikes in #Sheffield – wonder why I don’t see these numbers on my morning commute ? @olivercoppard @Ed_Clancy pic.twitter.com/6MdMmrLoGV
— GPNGreggs 💙 🇺🇦 🇾🇪 🇵🇸 (@AnnGreggsRN) October 8, 2023
@CycleSheffield @sccactivetravel @HelpSheffield Tudor Square pic.twitter.com/tXKJ2mAuBs
— Red Vanilla – A Learning & Development Business (@JonRedVanilla) October 8, 2023
Not bad for a series that started with Dom’s one-man rides live streamed online, now attended by hundreds, perhaps thousands of people enjoying riding bikes through their city in a safe, party atmosphere. While we’re going to keep this a positive post it might be amusing to point out how the plan to return to Sheffield caught the attention of one Facebook group dedicated to opposing active travel plans in part of the city.
“The velociraptor cycle gangs are planning terrorist action to bring Sheffield to a standstill this weekend. We must stand up to this vile behaviour, we cannot allow the terrorists to win.”
“The velociraptor cycle gangs are planning a terrorist action to bring Sheffield to a standstill this weekend”.
Things seen on Facebook.
Sheffield’s at a standstill every day, and I’m not sure if it’s dinosaurs or terrorists that are the culprit. pic.twitter.com/I63tx2ju2d
— Tweets from the hills (@twunderclap) October 5, 2023
Sorry, pal. Think everyone’s too busy enjoying a bike ride to join the resistance…
The after party @domwhiting
Drum and bass ride Sheffield.@CycleSheffield @russ_cycle_shed @JohnyCam @matlockjohn1971 @matt_corbishley pic.twitter.com/wkJOWEKCMR— Bells and Bikes (@bellsandbikes) October 8, 2023
Drum & Bass On The Bike: The story so far
Here’s your 90-second rundown of Drum & Bass On The Bike, in case this is your first time hearing about the city-hopping cycling celebration…
It’s the creation of High Wycombe-based DJ Dom Whiting who had the genius lockdown idea of retrofitting a trike with decks and speakers, live streaming himself riding around a town or city blasting tunes. Better than another 5km run or banana bread loaf.
“It started during the lockdown, through pure boredom really,” Whiting told road.cc in June. “We couldn’t have music at the time, we couldn’t do this, we couldn’t do that. It was just one of those crazy lockdown creations, that now takes up a hundred percent my life! The whole thing was a complete accident in that I didn’t expect it to evolve the way it has.”
The format was born and has grown in popularity since, Whiting’s early days seeing just himself or a handful of people showing up. Now, hundreds or thousands turn up every time.
From Brighton to Berlin via just about every major UK city, Barcelona, Dublin and more, Drum & Bass On The Bike fever has spread, his full ride videos getting hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube where he has 232,000 subscribers.
“I don’t want to put a limit on where I think this will go, because there is no end goal,” he told us recently. “There’s no way you can say we’ll stop at 4,000, 5,000 people, because you could have 10,000 and facilitate that with more sound.
“The variety of people that turn up, it just kind of makes it all worth it. Even if it does cost me fucking three or four, five grand a time, you can’t really put a price tag on the feeling.”
For more, check out editor Jack’s sit-down interview with the DJ behind it all…
"Should the DJ Dom Whiting ever visit a city near you for one of his Drum & Bass On The Bike rides, my advice is that you shouldn’t pass up the chance to pop along"
Cycling limbo
Did some cycling limbo today. pic.twitter.com/mOUEBVh7e3
— Bill Hulley (@billhulley) October 8, 2023
Weekend round-up: Aero vs lightweight; Brompton Bike Hire managing director blasts Rishi Sunak's "cyclists versus drivers" rhetoric; Reviews; Racing + more
So, what happened in the cycling world while you were busy riding your bike this weekend and not sat at work procrastinating the Monday morning away?
The managing director of Brompton Bike Hire became the latest voice within the cycling industry to criticise Rishi Sunak’s recently announced batch of “proudly pro-car” policies, describing the prime minister’s attempt to halt the so-called ‘war on motorists’ as “wedge politics” and an “artificial construct” which will “hopefully blow over given time”.
Elsewhere, in the racing world, Tadej Pogačar completed his Il Lombardia hat-trick on Saturday, while Kasia Niewiadoma won the UCI Gravel World Championships…
> Tadej Pogačar wins Il Lombardia for the third time in a row with solo attack
Then, yesterday, Matej Mohorič added a men’s UCI Gravel World Championship victory to his impressive palmares ahead of a stacked field that included Wout van Aert and a not-so-retired Alejandro Valverde. Our favourite story to come out of that, however, was Nathan Haas being forced to ride the event on a museum Colnago after his bike was lost in transit.
And our video team have been busy looking into the pros and cons of aero vs lightweight with the help of Ribble.
> Aero vs lightweight road bikes with Ribble: How much faster could an aero bike make you?
> REVIEW: Techalogic DC-2 Pro Dual Lens Helmet Camera
Thibaut Pinot retirement party
[RCS]
In some people’s eyes, more important than any of the boring old who won this who won that was the retirement party of Thibaut Pinot, just as it did on the penultimate stage of the Tour de France, taking over Il Lombardia…
— Équipe Cycliste Groupama-FDJ (@GroupamaFDJ) October 8, 2023
Bowing out at the race he won in 2018, Pinot brought the curtain down on a career filled with promise, challenges, victories, disappointments and heartache, all followed closely by the support of a cult following that most athletes could only dream of.
[RCS]
Completing 14 seasons with the team currently known as Groupama FDJ, Pinot broke through with a 2012 stage victory at the Tour de France, willed on by directeur sportif Marc Madiot’s famous shouted ‘encouragements’.
As with any promising French climbing talent, a fate also suffered by his contemporary Romain Bardet, Pinot’s career unfolded to the backdrop of never-ending speculation about if he could end the French drought and win the Tour de France? A podium finish in 2014 was as close as he came.
Four DNFs at his home Grand Tour, most recently in 2019 having been third on GC after the first week, only to lose time on the sprint stage to Albi, drop further back in the TT, win atop the Tourmalet, move up to fourth the day after, and abandon the race on stage 19 having been 1:50 off the yellow jersey the night before.
Ultimately, the touted Grand Tour-winning heights were never reached, but many a more successful pro cyclist has retired without a tenth of the fanfare and acclaim that Thibaut Pinot took on Saturday afternoon…
Pinot’s corner 🥺🙌🏼
📹 Sea Are Content on IG.#IlLombardia pic.twitter.com/Puls5SDk3Z
— Laura Meseguer (@Laura_Meseguer) October 8, 2023
Speeding driver who screamed at cyclist after hitting and leaving him with life-changing injuries spared jail
Cycling UK's Big Bike Revival receives £4 million funding boost from Active Travel England
Cycling UK’s Big Bike Revival will receive another £4 million of funding from Active Travel England. The programme, which provides funding for events designed to improve cycling skills, including ‘learn to fix’ or ‘learn to ride’ sessions, as well as led rides run through community groups and not-for-profit organisations.
Funding has now been confirmed until March 2025, with 2022 figures showing that over a third of people who took part in the programme switched to cycling for some or all of the short journeys they previously travelled by car.
“I’m delighted that we can now reach even more people than before through the Big Bike Revival,” Cycling UK chief executive Sarah Mitchell said. “We know what an impact the programme has had from talking to some of the 700,000 people who have taken part over the past decade. Many of them have changed the way they travel after coming along to a Big Bike Revival event.
“We estimate that over 40 per cent of adults in England have access to a bike, but only one in six of them cycles more than once a week. So this significant new funding will enable us to spread the benefits of cycling to even more communities, improving health and wellbeing and saving people money in a cost of living crisis.”
Unreleased Merida Silex raced to victory at Gravel World Champs by Matej Mohorič
> Unreleased Merida Silex raced to victory at Gravel World Champs by Matej Mohorič
Cycling's newest bucket list monster climb — 18km at 10%
The Tour of Turkey isn’t the first race that comes to mind when we think of monster climbs. But maybe it should, given tomorrow’s stage features possibly the most fear-inducing ascent we’ve seen for quite some time…
And the race organisers reckon it’s three kilometres longer than that, all at an average gradient of 10.3 per cent, with nine of those kilometres above 12 per cent. Add in what looks like a ‘challenging’ surface, with potentially even a cobbled sector, and tomorrow’s looking like a particularly grim day to be a sprinter.
Meanwhile in the Netherlands...
— Out of Context Human Race (@NoContextHumans) October 9, 2023
Confusion as driver blames 20mph zone for preventing her overtaking cyclists... despite them riding at the speed limit
Here’s a brainteaser for your Monday: if a road user is travelling at exactly 20mph in a 20mph zone, and there are other road users in front also travelling at 20mph, why would there be any need for the road user behind to overtake the other road user in front?
That’s the question the internet is trying to answer after one person’s TikTok about a newly introduced 20mph speed limit in Wales caused some befuddlement…
Driver can’t deal with the fact that these cyclists are going as fast as the speed limit #MGIF pic.twitter.com/od4rYHGsoZ
— PedalPerspective (@Pedalperspectiv) October 8, 2023
The “reality” of the speed limits, the social media sharer claimed, is that when “going at 20mph” she has been behind “these cyclists for about four miles” without being “able to overtake them” because… “they’re actually cycling faster than me going at 20mph”.
“I’m going 20mph and I cannot overtake these bikes”.
Sounds like, dare I say it, the rules of the road working perfectly as intended? Scary stuff…
Some questioned the point of the video, one reply asked then “why would she need to overtake the cyclists?” Another keen to know “if there were no bikes there what speed would she be doing?”
I’m confused. If she’s doing the speed limit, and the cyclists are also travelling at the same speed, then why would she need or want to overtake them?
— Pharmacist on a Pushbike (@PPushbike) October 9, 2023
Complain when you get held up by people on bikes, and complain when you’re not held up by people on bikes. Can’t win.
— Robert Blunt (@RobbertBlunt) October 9, 2023
I’m not clear, is she complaining that she’s *not* being held up by cyclists?
— MW (@MggW) October 8, 2023
It’s not the first eyebrow-raising reaction to Wales’ introduction of default 20mph speed limits we’ve seen… there was that bloke on Twitter who reckoned the recent media coverage of Russell Brand was all a plot to distract from the introduction of lower limits. Then there was the person who claimed driving instructors were being forced to lengthen their lessons because they simply couldn’t cover the necessary distance in an hour. The internet’s a fun place, isn’t it?
Anyway, here’s our report into the initial analysis of Wales’ 20mph speed limit implementation from transport and public health data analysts Agilysis…
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Cycling looks a lot safer per mile or per hour if you can remove from the statistics all the people riding on the wrong side of the road at night with no lights after a few drinks. Driving also looks a lot safer if you can remove the same sort of people from the statistics.
@Paul J Spanish police seem to be relatively lenient when the only potential harm from a dangerous behaviour could happen to yourself. What you're describing might be similar to how they react to crossing the street while there's a red light. While (AFAIK) technically it's illegal, usually nobody will bother you - unless something happens. In fact, I've even seen police officers doing that!
@KentRider how did you get Kent Police to request the video? ...how did you find out the consequences for the drivers? Very important questions! The last thing the police want is indisputable evidence, and their most valuable and most often wielded weapons are refusal to respond to reports and refusal to look at evidence- often disguised as 'we're so busy, we don't have the time'. Police inaction has far-reaching consequences: the NW Traffic Commissioner is supposed to supervise Lancashire Stagecoach and other bus companies, but as far as he's concerned if there was no police action, there was no problem and he follows the 'head in the sand' solution. Police officers really are the main enemies of cyclists. ttps://upride.cc/incident/sk19evw_stagecoach42_closepass/ ttps://upride.cc/incident/4148vz_travellerschoicecoach_closepass/
@wtjs I appreciate You've faced a depressingly unco-operative police force. The Met police, untill recently, were relatively good at taking action. I used to get a good 70-80% of my reports resulting in more than a warning letter. But now that they are getting more reports than they can cope with the hit rate is about 10% if not less.
@I love my bike An answer to the increasing number of EVs and the drivers also doing this with their plates is for someone smarter than me. Which is pretty much everyone. But I'm thinking that in the future, when an EV owner goes shopping and parks in the car park, the CCTV can catch the vehicle if it is illegal and call security and the staff can refuse to serve them. I'm also thinking larger shopping centres might offer free charging to customers so again, this can be denied for any dodgy plates.
@mitsky I've got ghost plates on my bikes. Actually, I think we all have! It saves the time, cost & effort of having actual ones ; ) I wonder how 'I'm a cyclist' motorists counter that? (Do EVs that charge at home miss out on surveillance?)
Spanish bullfighters: always wear a crash helmet.
No - you're getting confused - this is road.cc reader's wife - *much* more niche.
@mdavidford ‘reader’s wife?’ Isn’t that some other dubious image publishing from the 80’s and 90’s?
@wtjs Uploading an image to any "aspect" of the Internet doesn't change the creator's ownership of the image. If it is uploaded to certain platforms their terms of service may allow them to use it themselves for publicity on their own network, and fair dealing/fair usage laws allow others to use it for certain purposes such as comment, criticism, education et cetera, but ownership remains with the creator and it may not be used commercially without permission.
35 thoughts on “Confusion as driver blames 20mph zone for preventing her overtaking cyclists… despite them riding at the speed limit; Huge Drum & Bass On The Bike crowd; Thibaut Pinot retirement party; Anyone for cycling limbo?; Weekend round-up + more on the live blog”
I thought Velociraptors were
I thought Velociraptors were supposed to be quick, and if I saw one I don’t think I’d be at a standstill
NickSprink wrote:
You would run right into their trap then….
Clever girl.
Clever girl.
Whoever made that comment was
Whoever made that comment was so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn’t stop to think if they should.
Lethal at eight months…
Lethal at eight months…
The problem is they’re really
The problem is they’re really cute up to that point…
chrisonatrike wrote:
I’ll take your word for that, I’ve never successfully hatched one.
That ‘cycling limbo’ tweet
That ‘cycling limbo’ tweet seems like a good argument for learning to ride a recumbent…
Think that location was
Think that location was covered by Ogmios in his recent e-Bike adventures.
Why do you need an argument for learning to ride a recumbent though?
Or what’s wrong with “you get more odd looks from people, and there are more custom parts, costing more money – AND you get to go at whoohoo speeds more often downhill, on the flat or even on a slight uphill grade”?
I’m currently heading towards
I’m currently heading towards the recumbent rabbit hole due to injury/illness, it’s like a whole new world I didn’t know existed. So much choice. So many weird looks. So many new tools needed. So much clever engineering. Why would anyone not want to ride a recumbent?
Wish you lots of fun
Wish you lots of fun discovering things! I really recommend reaching out to folks and trying as many as you can. I hope you’re near a friendly dealer (not many – I mean, they’re all friendly but few dealers) OR some friendly recumbent owners. Forget “bike fit” – there’s a whole slew of variables to explore.
Although there’s always some “niche” stuff many of the modern crop (especially high-racers) are designed with “takes all your standard / favourite high-end components” in terms of wheels / drivetrain. Obviously you’ll not find seats or steerers in Halfords though!
The good thing is that – though expensive in the first place – they tend to hold their value. So taking the plunge (especially 2nd hand) and finding after a while that e.g. you want more comfort (or alternatively less suspension / flex / a more laid back or lighter machine) you can get back a reasonable chunk of your investment.
Currently although I’ve also got a diamond framed tourer I’m mostly gravitating towards either lying down or being bolt-upright (roadster-style sit-up-and-beg posture for shopping and short trips). Either way my back /neck is happier and I avoid pressure on my hands / wrists.
Nearest dealers are about 30
Nearest dealers are about 30 miles away so easy enough to cycle over for a test ride whilst I still can. Taking pressure off hands, neck, and feet main priority, as is engaging different muscle groups.
Having a relationship with a
Having a relationship with a dealer is a good idea – I’ve sorted most of the standard issues with mine but for getting odd more obscure bits (normally from abroad) it can be much easier to go through a dealer.
OTOH if it’s trikes then there are ICE actually building ’em in the UK.
Muscle groups is different again as it seems to depend on the frame and design to a greater extent than uprights. The ones I’ve ridden there’s the ability to adjust to make the posture more comfy than on a standard road bike BUT there’s less scope for the small positional adjustments you might make on an upright and you can’t get up on the pedals / stretch your back right out.
Trikes are a lot of fun. Yes, a bit of extra drag from the 3rd wheel and a fair bit heavier – but going up hills you can’t fall off!
On mid-height 2 wheel recumbents I’ve never had problems being seen during the day. Rather the opposite – there’s definitely a “WTF!” factor at play. However though I’ve not yet had any issues there are two situations I’d consider exceptions. I tend to avoid busy urban traffic on the ‘bent and if I am in it I’m much more conservative e.g. tend not to filter, stay in primary and sod people beeping, am extra cautious at junctions. On a trike I think I’d be even less likely to mix it with congestion.
I’ve also not yet done much solo night riding. If I start doing more I’d consider getting a literal Christmas tree for the back (or other super-stimulus, preferably with moving lights / reflectives). For one you don’t have the benefit of moving pedal reflectors visible from the rear.
One word: hills
One word: hills
Not many near me. Not bigguns
Not many near me. Not bigguns anyway. And I’m not a stand and mash the pedals sort of rider so hopefully I’ll be fine. Due to age will likely go trike so hopefully few stability issues. My only real concern with it all is drivers.
Watching that video, I can’t
Watching that video, I can’t see the 20mph rule lasting for long. For the opening part of that ladies rant, I could see no real reason why that road would need a 20mph limit at all. Taking her at face value, I can’t believe there are 4+mile stretches of unbroken 20mph limit road.
Is she deliberately driving on the most urban / suburban roads possible or something?
Either she’s full of bullpoo, or those speed limits have been applied in an overal draconian way.
As an aside, I love her freudian slip when she mentions 25mph. Looking at the video, she was clearly driving above 20mph for much of it, lol.
Of course she was. There is a
Of course she was. There is a 20mph zone going into Kingston – it’s about a mile or so along the Portsmouth Road. The majority of drivers go 30-40mph along it until they are ‘held up’ by someone like me driving at or below 20mph. Once the 20mpher turns off, they’re back up to 30-40mph (apart from past the one speed camera, of course, where the brake lights are on for a fair while).
I’m just back from Wales.
I’m just back from Wales. There was some issues with signage in some locations but otherwise I didn’t have any issues and it all seemed very sensible.
I would need some local help but that’s the B5106 through Castell I would be surprised if it was 20mph all along there. In fact she drives past a temporary 20mph sign that seems to cover just the stretch past the pub.
Jimmy Ray Will wrote:
It depends on the reason for the limit. Plenty of people say “I don’t mind 20mph outside schools etc” (of which it seems there are a few along that road). But Welsh government rationale for making it wider than that is because they want people to be safe everywhere, not just outside schools.
Jimmy Ray Will wrote:
I thought that the principle was that, in Wales, all the roads which were previously 30mph limit are now 20mph limit (except where an exception/exemption has been applied for).
Strictly speaking, the
Strictly speaking, the default speed limit for “restricted roads” (typically those with regular streetlights) has been reduced. In theory I think there could previously have been 30mph roads which are not restricted roads (the 30mph limit may have been imposed by some other order) and the limit on those won’t automatically have changed to 20.
Don’t forget they could (and
Don’t forget they could (and still can) apply to vary the limit also. The fact of this flexibility has unfortunately been misrepresented. Almost like “x minute neighbourhoods / cities”, which may have sounded like a sensible principle until the government recently confessed it was after all just a sinister plot to trap us all in our homes! (Who by … er, well not them or Conservative councils, obviously.)
One of the issues I had was
One of the issues I had was that they don’t seem to use the smaller signs along the way. On one road I passed a 40mph sign coming out of a village, all good, and crossed a main road using a roundabout. No obvious sign, houses and lamp posts so slowed to 20mph. It was still 40mph! Basically, the last large speed limit sign you saw is the one that applies. That did seem a bit crazy!
Yes, around me there are a
Yes, around me there are a couple of places where I’m unsure. Apparently they are no longer allowed to use the smaller 20mph ‘repeater’ signs on restricted roads anymore, as it’s simply the default limit (though there is a grace period to remove them).
Do you not drive?
Do you not drive?
The default limit in England is 30mph. That means, it’s 30mph on all roads except where designated otherwise. These 30mph roads have entry signage and street lighting. Repeaters are used where there is no streetlighting.
On all other speed limit roads repeaters are required.
So.. in Wales the default limit is now 20mph. This applies to all existing 30mph roads, and is as above clear by the presence of entry signage and streetlighting.
30 mph roads are no longer the default so streetlighting is irrelevant and repeaters are now required.
In your case above, the signage was clear, it remains 40mph (with regular repeaters) until signage to say otherwise. Streetlighting doesnt indicate a change of speed.
bikeman01 wrote:
That’s my point it was 40mph but didn’t have repeaters. Is it not possible that, given the infancy of the project, in areas where the 30mph remains they have not yet put in the repeaters.
Abergele Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ymHVF7B7dA45e38N6
bikeman01 wrote:
Not strictly true. In England, Scotland & Northern Ireland – it is 30mph in built up areas and they seem to use street lighting as defining “built up”
In Wales, this is 20mph in built up areas (defined by street lighting)
It there is no street lighting, then (for cars) the “default speed limit” i.e. the speed limit when not otherwise indicated, is 60mph for single carriageway and 70mph for dual/motorway.
gov.uk Speed Limits
bikeman01 wrote:
Streetlighting is not irrelevant, as “restricted roads” (to which the new default applies, absent an exemption) are defined by the presence of streetlights. In practice, yes, a change of speed limit should also have a sign, but the Welsh Gov acknowledges they weren’t necessarily all in place from day one.
The driver complaining that
The driver complaining that she wasn’t able to overtake cyclists who were doing 20mph in the 20mph zone, is reported to be a Health and Wellness coach at a school.
“Sara Dew
Health and Wellness Coach at Complementary Health Care, Compementary (sic) Health Care, Mount St Josephs School”
And she uses the strapline “What controls your mind, controls your life”
You literally couldn’t make it up.
Presumably it was their
Presumably it was their passenger using their phone to capture that video?
it moves on its axis a few times so its not a fixed dashcam.
I wonder if they were wearing
I wonder if they were wearing a chest rig as the camera is way too steady for hand-held and driving.
Always possible the car is a left hooker.
They are a twat no matter what
Low Bridge …
Low Bridge …
You can bet your ass some prat in a Transit has tried to get under there.
I think the tikker is saying
I think the tikker is saying “look at the reality of this lower speed limit, I am going as slowly as cyclists, 20mph is way too slow because I should be faster than cyclists and if I obey the speed limit I am not.” rather than “I am happy to go 20 mph but I need to do so in front of cyclists rather than behind them” as a lot of people are interpereting it.
Watching those Pinot videos
Watching those Pinot videos brought a lump to the throat.
Merci Thibaut.
RE: Meanwhile in the
RE: Meanwhile in the Netherlands…
That just goes to show that the much touted cycle infra over there is clearly not fit for purpose. Far too narrow, and dangerous to boot.
And just look at what their cyclists wear!
Here’s more of their “crazy golf” infra…