“Paint is not infrastructure”: What’s the point of unsegregated cycle lanes?; Star Trek: Retired US track cyclist becomes a NASA astronaut; Cav contract confirmed (+TDF doc); Mandatory helmet at TTs reaction; How to wrap a bike + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
How to wrap a bike
Perhaps the more pressing question is ‘how to buy a bike in time for Christmas?’… but for argument’s sake let’s say you’ve already got that bit under control. How do you wrap it? I’d be keen on keeping it in the box or not bothering at all…but I’m lazy, and you probably don’t want to spend Christmas morning setting up said bike once it’s out the box…
Thankfully, Decathlon has this video with a creative method for making it look good and a little less obvious that the lucky person is about to unwrap a bicycle…although having given it a watch, you might want to do this before you stumble in from the pub at half eleven…
"Shop early for kids bikes," says UK bike brand... but is it too late for Christmas already?
On the topic of bikes for Christmas, check out our tech feature from yesterday about the bike manufacturers warning against leaving it until the last minute…
Your relationship with bikes, through the years...
My relationships with my bikes, through the years:
Mid-twenties: I want to ride what the pros ride
Mid-thirties: I’m trying to find that balance of light and fast but also comfortable and durable
Mid-forties: I will do whatever is necessary to make that squeaking noise go away— Neal Rogers (@nealrogers) December 7, 2021
Riding a star Trek or Planet X? Retired US track cyclist becomes an astronaut
In today’s dose of totally normal news, 11-time US national champion Christina Birch has joined NASA as one of ten new astronaut candidates. It’s the space agency’s first intake for four years, but includes the retired track cyclist who most recently won national titles in the team pursuit and Madison in 2018.
Birch’s cycling career followed her time at the University of Arizona and Massachusetts Institute of Technology where she earned two bachelor’s degrees in mathematics and biochemistry, as well as a Ph.D in biological engineering.
As per NASA’s press release, the ten candidates will report for duty in January to start two years of training, including operating and maintaining the International Space Station’s complex systems, training for spacewalks, developing complex robotics skills, safely operating a T-38 training jet, and Russian language skills.
After the training period Birch could be assigned to missions that involve performing research aboard the space station, launching from American soil on spacecraft built by commercial companies, as well as deep space missions to destinations including the Moon on NASA’s Orion spacecraft and Space Launch System rocket.
“Each of you has amazing backgrounds,” Pam Melroy, former NASA astronaut and NASA’s deputy administrator, told the candidates. “You bring diversity in so many forms to our astronaut corps and you stepped up to one of the highest and most exciting forms of public service.”
Birch’s partner, and the first person to ride a sub-four minute individual pursuit, Ashton Lambie shared the news on Instagram…
Cav contract confirmation: Manx Missile officially stays with Quick-Step for another season
Winner of the iconic green jersey and four Tour de France stages this year, when he took his tally to 34 victories and equaled a 46-year-old record, @MarkCavendish has signed a new contract with #TheWolfpack: https://t.co/05584SRAke pic.twitter.com/lQzSQ0SRyQ
— Deceuninck-QuickStep (@deceuninck_qst) December 7, 2021
The news we brought you last week has finally been confirmed. The first whispers of Cav signing a new contract with the team to be known as Quick-Step Alpha Vinyl from next season started almost as soon as the season finished. Now, a couple of months on, it’s finally confirmed…
> Mark Cavendish to stay at Quick Step-Alpha Vinyl for one more year
“I am incredibly proud and happy to have agreed a new deal with Deceuninck – Quick-Step,” Cav said “One year ago, when I came to the team, I did not hide my admiration for what this team does and how happy I was to be back here. I knew from my first time here that this squad has a unique family feeling, and it is a culture that remains to this day.
“The last 12 months have been phenomenal and the support that I have had from the team and the staff has made me very emotional at times. I am really looking forward to making some more special memories together over the next 12 months.”
The sassy swerve...
The further you are into the box, the more dramatic my entrance is 💃🏻 pic.twitter.com/vOhHtL03Tt
— Brum Bike Cam (@TheBrumBikeCam) December 6, 2021
The best bike products | road.cc recommends episode 10
Some handy lunch break viewing…
Reaction to compulsory helmets and lights at all Cycling Time Trials' events – including hill climbs
Helmets and front lights to be compulsory on all Cycling Time Trials events – including hill climbs; Resolutions passed at AGM of organisation’s National Council at the weekendhttps://t.co/4eGed69CIg #cycling pic.twitter.com/ieC8Mhuibq
— road.cc (@roadcc) December 6, 2021
Plenty of reaction knocking about to Cycling Time Trials’ announcement that front lights and helmets are to be compulsory at all its events…
Jimmy Ray Will commented on our story: “I kind of got rear lights… a lot of TTs are on dual carriageways, and often very early in the morning. Even though you can counter argue that dual carriageways offer loads of space and unrivalled line of sight, etc. etc. the speed differential is such that forcing the use of a rear light can be seen as a responsible action.
“I struggle more with front lights… this to me seems more pandering to paranoia and the notion that cyclists are hard to see. In daylight at least, as someone with average eyesight, I never struggle to see cyclists on the road.
“Helmets I am on board with, up to the point of hill climbs. I’d love to know how many accidents (total and then numbers leading to head injury) have happened during a hill climb event in the past few years. Or is this about mitigating risks on the way back down the hill (post event) or when cycling to the start?”
FishandChips said: “An excellent decision on both counts. The front light rule in particular should have been brought in at the same time as rear lights. I have marshalled at numerous TTs and agree riders are quite often very difficult to spot head-on, and that’s when I’m looking out for them. As for the helmet rule, I’ve yet to see anyone not wearing a helmet at our club organised TT events, so making it mandatory is hardly a chore for the riders.”
On Facebook, Teak Head Al commented: “I’ve often been tempted by hill climbs but if they think I can’t ride up a hill without landing on my head I’ll have nothing to do with it.”
In fairness, it didn’t seem to slow national champion Tom Bell down too much…
No one ever won a hill climb wearing a helmet…oh, wait, hang on a minute… pic.twitter.com/oJ46fDaaFp
— Nick Burton (@cervelo_nick) December 6, 2021
The bright sparks are already wondering how far they can push it in the name of performance gains…
— Gaz. (@gazwagon) December 6, 2021
Does one of these count? 😂 pic.twitter.com/hVAXzrnMNJ
— Owen Edwards (@o_ensan) December 6, 2021
How it started... How it's going... pro cyclist NASA edition
From @usacycling National Champion 🥇
… to @NASA astronaut 🚀Dr Christina Birch 🇺🇸 is heading to outer space 🪐 pic.twitter.com/VZ1SyRJbjf
— UCI (@UCI_cycling) December 7, 2021
Best joke we’ve seen so far was about Christina Birch’s commitment to altitude training…
Police search for cyclist who collided with six-year-old boy on scooter, fracturing his skull
Police in Chester have appealed for a cyclist involved in a collision with a six-year-old boy on a scooter to come forward. The cyclist did not stop at the scene of the incident in Stamford Road, Blacon just before 5pm on Thursday 2 December, which left the boy in hospital with a fractured skull.
The Chester Standard reports the boy has since been released from hospital. Police Constable Nicholas Watts said: “This collision left a little boy with fractures to his skull and eye socket and he is now recovering at home, however these injuries could have been a lot worse.
“We know that the Stamford Road area would have been busy at this time of the evening and a number of enquiries, including CCTV, are under way. We would urge anyone with dashcam footage or anyone who may have witnessed the collision to get in touch with us. I would also like to take this time to appeal to the cyclist themselves to come forward to assist us with our enquiries.”
Anyone with information is asked to contact Cheshire Police on 101 quoting IML 1146694 or report it via https://www.cheshire.police.uk/ro/report.
Bad news for the Tour of Britain? Rumours Tour Down Under could be rescheduled ahead of September World Championships
A Belgian news report has suggested the Australian races — Tour Down Under and Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race — could be held in September 2022 ahead of the UCI Road World Championships in Wollongong, New South Wales. Neither race has been held since 2020, and have again been cancelled in January.
However, Eurométropole Tour race organiser Louis Cousaert told Belgian newspaper La DH Les Sports that he heard whispers the Aussie races might be held in September instead.
The move would make sense from a perspective of allowing riders extra time to acclimatise to the time difference in Australia ahead of the world championships, although races like the Tour of Britain, which benefit from the world’s best sharpening their form ahead of the big goal, could see reduced quality fields. All wild speculation at this point, of course…
Deceuninck-Quick-Step tease Tour de France documentary
To mark the one-year extension signed by @MarkCavendish with #TheWolfpack, on Wednesday we are launching the first episode of our fantastic three-part documentary telling the story of the unforgettable Tour de France.
Until then, a teaser to whet your appetite. pic.twitter.com/MHDu6Stpyc
— Deceuninck-QuickStep (@deceuninck_qst) December 7, 2021
"Paint is not infrastructure": What's the point of unsegregated cycle lanes?
.@roadcc a reminder #PaintIsNotInfrastructure #PaintIsNotSegregatedInfrastructure
— @2_Wheeled_Wolf 🇪🇺 (@2_Wheeled_Wolf) December 7, 2021
Loads of you got in touch with your thoughts/observations/opinions on painted bike lanes after Jo Rigby’s video of six drivers cutting across one in 25 seconds…
On Facebook, Matt Reeve said “on the whole, they are inconvenient and unsafe”…
“These lanes are what, 1-1.5m wide? When riding through them, the whole width isn’t usable, usually due to drains, poor quality road surface at the edge or general debris. If any more than the outer 50 per cent is usable then it’s probably in the top 10 per cent of these lanes in my area. This means that the rider is pushed closer to the passing traffic. There’s also the issue of these lanes stopping where it’s most inconvenient (e.g. large junctions), and having sections where left turning traffic has priority. On the whole, they are inconvenient and unsafe.”
Andy Moos added: “Solid painted white lines mean cars MUST NOT cross, but we don’t actually enforce it so come on over. Broken lines mean there’s some paint on the road. Then there’s the weird, we’ve drawn a picture of a bike every 20metres, it’s probably the outline of the last cyclist to die here but park your car over it anyway.”
Gareth Olley commented: “As a regular commuter, I find these commuter lanes more dangerous than none at all. Whilst within a lane, traffic passes regardless as they see the line as a separation/barrier, where as soon as the ‘lane’ finishes most traffic gives you more room as suddenly they’re sharing their lane. It all comes down to attitudes and these are much harder to fix!”
Under here rjfrussell wrote: “It all depends, doesn’t it? If they are properly wide, they probably do help to keep most cars further away from the cyclists most of the time. Some are definitely worse than nothing. There are plenty that are so narrow that, in an effort to do the ‘right’ thing and stay within them, I end up cycling much too close to the gutter. The worst are the thin strips on fast roads, where they encourage close/ unsafe passes because, ‘if the bike is in the cycle lane then i can pass, even if I am doing 40 mph, even if there is traffic coming the other way, and even if, at best, i am leaving way less then 1.5m for the pass’.”
7 December 2021, 08:57
7 December 2021, 08:57
7 December 2021, 08:57
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Latest Comments
Same here. I have a helmet with built in front and rear lights and have a red light clipped onto my bag plus lights attached to my bike front and rear but still have drivers putting me in danger. My commute is about two miles and I normally have around four incidents a week where I have to brake hard or take other evasive action to avoid being hit by distracted drivers. A big percentage of these are drivers coming on to roundabouts when I am already on them.
Glasgow's South City Way sounds great, does it not? As a user from before and after I wholeheartedly welcome the construction of the segregated route, but so much of the detailed construction is poor, if not unsafe. I provide a link to a presentation I made when construction was half complete (a personal view) and the construction errors remain outstanding to this day: crossed by high speed flared road junctions, poor colour differentiation, car door zone risks and so on. And yet cyclists come because they feel safe. It's a complex subject but IMHO the feeling of safety (or lack of) is a critical component. https://drive.proton.me/urls/B67AK44G90#CFueBGjscoWr
I can only conclude that you haven't been into a city in the last few years. Food delivery riders in particular are riding overpowered "eBikes" that are basically mopeds ... powered only via the throttle without pedalling at significantly more than 15mph. Problem is they look like normal bikes/ebikes and not like mopeds so that is what people describe them as. My reading of the article is that it is those vehicles that are being talked about here.
I have the Trace and Tracer, which have essentially the same design, albeit smaller and less powerful. The controls are a little complicated but only because there are loads of options. In reality, once you've chosen your level of brightness, you'll only cycle through 1 or 2 options and it's dead simple. The lights are rock solid, bright, with good runtimes. The only thing I find annoying is charging them - if your fingers are slightly wet or greasy, getting the rubber out of the way of the charging port is a pain in the arse.
Dance and padel is all very well, but when is Strava going to let me record my gardening?
You can use it to check whether it's raining.
If it's dusk, i.e. post-sunset, then the cyclists should have lights on and thus the colour of their top is irrelevant. If you want to complain about cyclists not having lights when it's mandatory then by all means do but their top has nothing to do with it.
All of my Exposure lights with a button allow cycling through the modes with a short press. I have five of those; it would be odd if Exposure didn’t allow this functionality with the Boost 3. I also have two Exposure Burners if I remember correctly: they are rear lights for joysticks that clip on and are powered through the joystick charging port. They don’t have a button. None of my Exposure lights have failed. I looked at the Boost 3 review photos but none showed the button, so far as I could tell. I also have Moon lights. Good experience generally. One did fail, possibly because it was so thin it used to fall through the holes in my helmet onto the ground. Also, the UI and charge indicators vary for my Moon lights. Perhaps the latest ones are more consistent. My worst lights ever were from See.Sense.
Steve really doesnt like exposure products does he? Boost and Strada marked down for being too complicated. While the Zenith and Six Pack reviewed by his colleagues give them rave reviews (as most exposure products have on road.cc), the Zenith even touted as 'even more intuitive to use' with the same controls.
They are more interested in dog shit. https://www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/news/people/lancaster-police-launch-search-for-person-who-sprayed-dog-faeces-with-pink-paint-5605519
59 thoughts on ““Paint is not infrastructure”: What’s the point of unsegregated cycle lanes?; Star Trek: Retired US track cyclist becomes a NASA astronaut; Cav contract confirmed (+TDF doc); Mandatory helmet at TTs reaction; How to wrap a bike + more on the live blog”
Cycle Lanes ?
Cycle Lanes ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59559863
An increase in cycle lanes during the coronavirus pandemic contributed to London becoming the world’s most congested city, new analysis shows.
Drivers in the capital will lose an average of 148 hours stuck in jams across the whole of 2021, according to traffic information supplier Inrix.
Bloody cyclists and they don’t pay road tax or canal tax.
Bizarrely the study actually
Bizarrely the study actually stated that congestion levels had fallen in London when the cycling lanes were introduced.
“Congestion fell to an average of 148 hours…… That is just 1% down on pre-coronavirus pandemic levels, a much smaller decline than many other major cities.”
Again the discussion is about car traffic and not about the movement of people.
Heard this on the news this
Heard this on the news this morning, had a laugh at how pathetic it was at first and then thought great, Daily Mail is going to love this!, Sure enough they’ve picked it up and the usual hate filled comments are racking up!
The Inrix study also doesn’t
The Inrix study also doesn’t seem to factor in the huge drop in public transport use during 2020 and 2021. Even by September 2021 passenger numbers were only 50% of pre-pandemic levels.
Covid impacted travel choices with people avoiding public transport and choosing to drive instead.
What is needed in this study is a breakdown of journeys by mode and number of people travelling.
As far as I can tell Inrix doesn’t present any analysis of overall journeys in London during what was an exceptional period due to Covid. I can’t see how they can just arrive at the conclusion that cycle lanes are to blame, there are many other factors.
Yup, they’ve purposely taken
Yup, they’ve purposely taken one thing, cycle lanes, and then decided that is the only cause of congestion in London. Never mind how few segregated cycle lanes there actually are, lets just blame the cyclists, easy traget to pick on!
Well the cynic in me suspects
Well the cynic in me suspects they started from the conclusion they presented and then did the analysis that backs that up, rather than properly quantitatively assessing all the available data.
Yep, they don’t think
Yep, they don’t think “Fucking hell, I spend 148 hours a year stuck in a queue in my car, why don’t I look at other transport methods that are faster” they just think “I’m stuck in my car, all those cyclist fault”.
Thought I would take a look
Thought I would take a look at the Inrix Scorecard
Interestingly cities with very high levels of cycling infrastructure have very low congestion rates. What a surprise that Inrix (whose business model is selling products for motor traffic) didn’t mention this fact.
Amsterdam – Hours lost 7 (versus 148 in London)
Copenhagen – Hours lost 48
Utrecht – Hours lost 19
Paris has introduced more
Paris has introduced more cycling infrastructure during the pandemic yet has seen a reduction in its congestion score.
I was in Copenhagen a week ago and it was amazing to see the amount of cycling in the centre, and how much nicer it was to walk around town without the pollution and noise of traffic. (And no hi-viz or helmets in sight…)
I believe that there was a
I believe that there was a study done many years ago that showed that people that shaved everyday lived longer than those that didn’t. By just looking at one variable they appeared to show conclusively that shaving caused longer life expectancy. If the survey opened up slightly to consider the socio-economic reasons behind people shaving every day you of course come to a totally different conclusion. I’m putting this survey in the same rubbish bin.
CBS news.com back in 2011,
CBS news.com back in 2011, reported on a study that said “flossing your teeth can add 6.4 years to your life expectancy “. Chocolate, sex and red wine were also mentioned, along with dance and church. Cheers.
paint cycle lanes vary
paint cycle lanes vary greatly, when they are of adequate width and not dual purpose cycle/parking lanes they can be quite good.
Just as segregated infrastructure can be good or not so good (poorly surfaced/disappears when requires/shunts you back onto the roiad with a give way line/narrow and shared with walkers)
you have to assess each lane on its own merits and decide whether it is a benefit or not.
Rachel Aldred and Adam Thomas
Rachel Aldred and Adam Thomas did a detailed study of cycling infrastructure and associated injury risk in London.
“..Mandatory painted lanes did not lead to any risk reduction and advisory lanes (which motor vehicles are legally permitted to enter) increased injury odds by over 30%.”
So painted cycling lanes are indeed no better (in fact worse) than nothing.
Report Here
It did but I remember when
It did but I remember when the report was published,probably buried in road.cc archived, I didnt feel those numbers stacked up because it felt very much like a correlation not a causation effect and it might have been a completely London centric thing anyway, because traffic patterns arent universal and London roads are more complex. So I always felt it was wrong to just state painted bike lanes increase the risk of injury, or even imply they all did in that way.
Remove cycle lanes and all is
Remove cycle lanes and all is ok
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1467427950127628291
(not sure what Ken Livingstone is going to do though !)
The thing about cycle lanes
The thing about cycle lanes is that the best case outcome is that motorists see them and think cyclists are meant to be within the cycle lane, and as long as the motorist doesn’t enter the cycle lane then they’ve done nothing wrong. (Of course, plenty of motorists think cyclists shouldn’t be on the roads at all, and don’t think twice about driving in a cycle lane).
If a painted cycle lane was 2m wide, then I would think it would be better than nothing – because it would mean cyclists could ride in a sensible position away from the kerb, and if a motorist does not encroach on the cycle lane when overtaking then it would be an acceptable overtake.
However, I’m not sure I can think of a single painted cycle lane that meets that standard. The vast majority seem to be <1m wide (some significantly less), and at that width the same thinking (that cyclists must stay in the cycle lane, and overtaking is fine providing the motorist does not enter the cycle lane) means they are worse than nothing: encouraging dangerous overtaking and aggression towards cyclists who dare decide not to use the lane.
Do you feel confident cycling
Do you feel confident cycling in painted cycle lanes? And are they actually better than nothing?
Do I feel confident in painted cycle lines, absolutley not, they are crap.
Are they better than nothing.. for me, yes, with no painted lines in the gutter (teaching drivers to close pass with impunity), I think the routes would be probably slower to travel along and potentially more dangerous. It’s marginal though and I still hate to travese them with family members.
The “new” Highway Code
The “new” Highway Code advises a 1.5m overtaking clearance. Painted lines that are incompatible with the Highway Code should be illegal, and those in authority who sanction them should be personally liable to damages from injured cyclists.
There are some advantages to painted lines – they are cheap and they allow the cycle lane to benefit from the usual road sweeping, gritting, snow clearance etc. But essentially they should be a proper lane to themselves, with cameras to fine drivers entering them, and enforced no parking. Otherwise they are just a waste of paint.
The problem is that it’s
The problem is that it’s stated as should leave 1.5m not must leave 1.5m. Meaning advisory only and giving a get out clause for motorists to simply argue there just wasn’t enough space for me to leave 1.5m your honor.
TonyE-H wrote:
I take your point about them being only advisory for motorists. I was not pointing the finger at motorists, but at the authorities who have these lines painted.
I believe there is a case against those in authority who misdirect motorists to go against the provisions of the HWC, whether the provision be mandatory or not. Painting lines that invite and encourage an overtaking distance below that advised in the HWC should be culpable.
I know I’ve shared this
I know I’ve shared this before but this cycle lane IS incompatible with the law. Especially, in this downhill direction where it would be harder to be doing less than 10mph.
I genuinely wonder how they imagine some of these cycle lanes are supposed to work. They only lead to more conflict and I believe give drivists an incorrect view of their entitlement.
Know that one well. It’s the
Know that one well. It’s the epitome of broken and incomplete infrastructure. You’ve got a fairly good segregated cycle track, then it becomes this abysmal mess, before dumping you on a 60mph national limit road with nothing.
Yet the local FB pages are full of people moaning nobody uses the cycle track.
Is the cycle lane the bit in
Is the cycle lane the bit in the middle by Google’s arrows?
Sriracha wrote:
I think the only advantage is “cheap” / quick. Cheap but not “good value” because you don’t actually get much for your paint. The point is to keep the vehicles out, and they don’t.
Vehicles in them is a major nuisance. Because “cheap” it’s not surprising that parking enforcement is generally inadequate. Not sure if you can get enough improvement while still keeping things “cheap”? Cameras would be good but are the speed ones not costly – and wouldn’t parking ones need to be somehow even more effective / have greater coverage? (I guess we could bolt cameras to drones or to rich_cb’s self-driving taxis – but I think the idea of that was it would replace the private car anyway). Sorry – I keep forgetting – this is a cash cow for the councils of course!
For “cheap and good value” cycle paths Seville is interesting and the early days of Copenhagen. Imperfect but made a change to the numbers cycling.
It all depends, doesn’t it?
It all depends, doesn’t it?
If they are properly wide, they probably do help to keep most cars further away from the cyclists most of the time.
Some are definitely worse than nothing-
– there are plenty that are so narrow that, in an effort to do the “right” thing and stay within them, I end up cycling much too close to the gutter.
– the worst are the thin strips on fast roads, where they encourage close/ unsafe passes because, “if the bike is in the cycle lane then i can pass, even if I am doing 40 mph, even if there is traffic coming the other way, and even if, at best, i am leaving way less then 1.5m for the pass”
I agree, but none of them
I agree, but none of them round here are properly wide.
In my experience painted
In my experience painted cycle lanes means:
“this road is wide enugh for me to park my car on it without completely pissing off other motor vehicles”
…and not much else
I hate them.
these lanes so need a
these lanes so need a kerbstone, the only thing that will stop vehicles being driven into them
Bollards
Bollards
https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1466796084202717185
Trouble is such an
Trouble is such an arrangement leads to the cycle lane filling up with road detritus, broken glass etc and never being road-swept, gritted or snow-ploughed. At which point cyclists just share the (narrowed) carriageway instead.
I’ve seen plenty examples in France of kerbed cycle lanes. Unless they are wide enough for a roadsweeper then they are full of broken glass, with daisies pushing through the disused surface. The wider kerbed cycle lanes however are excellent, and well used by cyclists to the total exclusion of them using the regular roadway (to the equal delight of motorists).
Unsegregated cycle lanes (and
Unsegregated cycle lanes (and in my experience even ones with armadillos / wands / anything other than jersey barriers) are great for:
Did I miss any?
I did…(at least in the UK
I did…(at least in the UK as things stand):
For me a narrow painted lane
For me a narrow painted lane is too dangerous to ride in it when traffic is moving freely but hopefully they serve the purpose of reserving a minimal amout of space for cyclists when traffic is stationary or very slow.
Being generous, there are some (often very short lanes of say 20m) that appear to be designmed with that in mind. Often they are ridiculed in the press but they can serve the purpose of getting cyclists past pinch points.
If there isn’t space
If there isn’t space available on the road to fit a 1.5m bike lane, then there’s really no point in painting one in. The last time I was in court due to a close pass, the defendant stated that he’d given me more room than the painted cycle lane outside the court would have offered me. He was right, the painted cycle lane outside the court was only about 50cm wide.
He still got 4 points and £250 fine though, so all ended well.
Main point is that by providing painted lanes so narrow, you give motorists the impression that is all the space that is needed to safely overtake a cyclist.
It’s an interesting point
It’s an interesting point because I’ve certainly been close passed whilst riding on a cycle lane and I’m convinced the police gave it a NFA, because the driver could have argued they didnt encroach on the cycle lane,so deemed I had sufficient space.
carlosdsanchez wrote:
Example for you: Bridge Road, in Bristol, on the approach to the Clifton Suspension Bridge coming from North Somerset.
https://goo.gl/maps/wnKC5BNZExxdbe9r9
I’ve actually pretty much given up on using it – even if traffic is not moving at all, it’s not often that a cyclist can fit along there.
So many of the cars are big black SUVs which are far wider than the space that’s been left outside the ‘cycle lane’; and the drivers in normal sized vehicles always seem to want to keep a ‘good, safe’ distance from the divider so they encroach on the cycle lane too.
I wonder if Mr Loopy would
I wonder if Mr Loopy would agree that any car stuck in traffic and blocking the cycle lane should be fined for being inconsiderate?
You mean… You think
You mean… You think Freeman might have double-standards, or some sort of cognitive blindspot? Perish the very thought!
If the existing carriageway
If the existing carriageway width does not allow for a dedicated cycle lane with overtaking clearance compliant with the Highway Code, perhaps a better solution might be a width-compliant dashed line that motorists were allowed to enter, unless overtaking a cyclist when they MUST overtake outside the line. Clearly they would then have to negotiate encroachment of the opposing traffic lane in order to overtake (otherwise it’s saying there was room for a proper dedicated cycle lane after all). Reasonable video evidence from cyclists then ought to be sufficient for prosecution, saving the Council the cost of dedicated enforcement cameras.
Sriracha wrote:
Interesting. Sounds like a sort of bicycle street plus overtaking? I think a fietsstraat / bicycle street doesn’t allow motor vehicles to overtake – and these should only be applied where motor vehicle numbers are very low so mostly only on “destination” roads. Looking at some proposals for cycle lanes from my council (“manadatory” lanes) it says cars must not enter the lanes “unless necessary” without further definition so again I’d be concerned about the get outs.
Information from a place where they also have lots of cycling lanes (as well as excellent cycle paths).
Would rely on the enforcement. Cheap also depends on who’s paying. Yes – it might not be councils who then pick up the bills. Cyclists pay for the cameras – but it would need a different *system* than currently. I think part of that issue is “processing costs” are high. Maybe less if a) punishment was more like parking / speeding tickets b) you didn’t need a copper to watch your video but someone cheaper c) they could just watch your video and click “apply fine” or not?
I’m wondering if this isn’t starting to sum up to the cost of some crude / cheap but actual segregated infra already? Just a thought experiment but what’s the cost to dump jersey barriers along the streets instead of that paint, the cycle cameras and the extra policemen / parking wardens / court time? I know that doesn’t sort the cycle parking / junctions…
Sriracha wrote:
An example of this sort of arrangement near Windermere – gives a clear visual signal that to overtake, you’re going to cross the centre line. Could do with freshening up mind.
That looks ok, but only in
That looks ok, but only in one direction.
It’s a half-arsed version of the LTN 1/20 remove the centre line design.
The problem with unsegregated
The problem with unsegregated bike lanes is that, conceptually, motorists think the lanes are meant to ghettoize rather than to protect cyclists, and of course king car can slum it in the ghetto whenever he wants.
As for the suggestion by some that the lanes should be wider, I take their points, but I’m not sure I agree. Wider bike lanes would just be even more inviting to autos. Sure, enforcement could fix that, but where’s the enforcement now?
This is a particularly
This is a particularly pointless advisory lane in Addiscombe, Croydon. No car is narrow enough to occupy the left hand lane without also being in the cycle lane. And it is not the only similar example in the area.
But (assuming it affords the
But (assuming it affords the 1.5m clearance) it could be repurposed as an overtaking clearance marking. So to overtake a cyclist the motorist has to stay outside the line, temporarily encroaching on the other lane.
I think a wide overtaking
I think a wide overtaking line for cars to follow rather than a narrow lane that bikes should stay in would work much better where roads aren’t congested.
Was going to pop at at
Was going to pop at at lunchtime on the bike but it says winds of 40+ mph – no thanks !
Must be selective memory but I don’t recall this sort of thing in December before.
hirsute wrote:
Bloody Brexit!
hirsute wrote:
My bike never gives me weather reports. Is it an ebike? or apples new i-bike they have slipped out ont eh quiet?
No, I used to happen in
No, it used to happen in October (1987)
Sriracha wrote:
“Some people are saying that there’s going to be a hurricane. Well, don’t worry, it won’t happen!” (from memory)
Cycle lanes are just victim
Cycle lanes are just victim blaming, the money would be better spent on driver education or prosecution of those who fail to learn.
Backladder wrote:
Over 13 million drivers knowingly break the law speeding every time they use their car. Even the threat of prosecution doesn’t stop them.
100 billion on educating drivers would have zero effect. They know what they are doing and choose to do it.
EddyBerckx wrote:
Because there is insufficient enforcement, catch and prosecute the majority and people will stop. If they know that speeding is more likely to result in a £60 fine than not, then they will stop.
speed 5 times a week, caught and fined 4 times, even the dimmest would realise they must change their behaviour.
This is fairly atypical on
This is fairly atypical on this section of road with this unsegregated painted cycle lane in Ipswich, but they are now removing the segregated lanes we had, so more of this i guess to look forward to.
https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/traffic/ipswich-cycle-barriers-down-after-tom-hunt-complains-8536176
Not to do with cycling, but a
Not to do with cycling, but a warning to always remember that the other person might be a bit of a nutter / have a VERY short fuse…
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/07/teesside-pedestrian-who-fatally-stabbed-driver-jailed-for-at-least-23-years
I had a run in with a driver
I had a run in with a driver on Saturday in Wood Green. I’d shouted that he was an idiot for cutting me up at a roundabout. It escalated to him following me and at one point riding straight at me on the wrong side of the road! Camera ordered. Lesson learned. There are actual psychos out there!
Mandatory painted bike lanes
Mandatory painted bike lanes (a solid line of paint) are completely useless.
Advisory painted bike lanes (a borken line of paint) are worse than useless.
“When compared to no infrastructure, this study found that …advisory lanes increased injury odds by 34%”
“Mandatory painted lanes did not lead to any risk reduction”
https://findingspress.org/article/18226-cycling-injury-risk-in-london-impacts-of-road-characteristics-and-infrastructure
Quote:
They’ve just painted a broken white line along the formerly wanded off cycle lane on Park Row, Bristol, westbound.
They’ve also blacked out the parking markings that they’d left there while the wands were there, and put a big yellow bag over the parking meter.
It took five minutes (I watched!) after the workmen had packed up their cones and moved on before the entire length filled up with parked cars and vans… “No parking machine? Yay – free parking!”