Support road.cc

Like this site? Help us to make it better.

news

"The charge for speeding on a bicycle is pedalling furiously": Reaction to police shaming cyclists for ‘breaking the speed limit’; Vuelta riders' flight disruption woes as they reach hotel at 3AM with no food; Canyon disc of shame + more on the live blog

Cycling has gone nuts! After a crazy weekend at the Vuelta, a rest day for the riders but no rest day for Adwitiya as he kicks off this week’s live blog (and laments no more bank holidays until December)
04 September 2023, 08:19
Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30 zone (Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team/Twitter)
"The charge for speeding on a bicycle is called pedalling furiously": Reaction to police shaming cyclists for ‘breaking the speed limit’

Ah well, it's that time of the year again, the mandatory police force getting something so wrong about cyclists that we have no option left but to cover it.

This time, it's Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team, who wrote last evening: "Cyclists, please be mindful of your speeds and just how this will effect you in the event of a collision. This group today on Dartmoor observed travelling at near 40mph on a 30mph restricted road. All stopped and offered appropriate words of advice".

There's not much I can say about this post, other than reminding the roads policing team that the speed limit doesn't legally apply to cyclists, because there's no, once again, legal requirement for a speedometer on an piece of equipment not powered by a motor.

> Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30mph zone despite speed limits not applying to bicycle riders

In fact, Rule 124 of the Highway Code sets limits for various vehicles, which MUST be complied with, and in which bicycles are not included.

Further, Rule 125 also says that "inappropriate speeds are also intimidating, deterring people from walking, cycling or riding horses", and drivers should reduce their speed when "sharing the road with pedestrians, particularly children, older adults or disabled people, cyclists and horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and motorcyclists".

Hmm, 22 months on, do we need another survey to tell us how many drivers are still unaware of the Highway Code?

> Over half of UK drivers still confused by Highway Code change, shows survey

And just as you'd expect, the tweet was the perfect hunting ground for the pitchfork-weilding anti-cycling brigade, lambasting not only the cyclists in the video — who at least in my opinion seem to be well-experienced and riding safely, and were most likely going down a descent — but all cyclists, bringing up discussions like license plates, speedometers, and harsher police action towards "speed-limit disobeying" cyclists.

Mike van Erp, the London cyclist and cycling safety advocate, better known by his alter-ego Cycling Mikey, caught whiff of this police post and replied to several tweets, saying that the cyclists weren't breaking the law and that "that’s probably quite reasonable when a bicycle weighs maybe 10kg and an average car 1.5-2 tonnes".

> "But what about…?": Police force gets blasted with anti-cycling bingo for launching plain clothes Operation Close Pass cycle patrols

More cyclists jumped in to criticise the police's tweet, remarking that this was doing nothing but "stoking more anti-cycling sentiments" and "giving motorists even more encouragement to treat anyone on a bicycle as a second class citizen".

Some quick kinetic energy calculations might be of help here...

Another person pointed out that the police, while themselves going past the speed limit in their cars, failed to use the blue lights and the two-tone siren.

Incidentally, two weeks ago, Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team were also clamping down on speeding drivers, catching a driver speeding at 61mph in a 30mph zone, just a few feet away from a child cyclist, with the police confirming that a prosecution will take place.

> Driver caught speeding past child cyclist at an "eye-watering" 61mph in a 30mph zone outside school

The team also said that it identifying 280 other instances of motorists speeding or using mobile phones in one hour.

Adrian Leisk, Head of Road Safety at Devon & Cornwall Police, said: "Our South Devon team identifying, yet again, that speeding drivers in Torbay are not expecting to be held to account."

04 September 2023, 15:09
The police responds: "Riders must not cycle in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner"

The force has spoken, folks. After the whirlwind caused by a social media post by Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team about criticising cyclists for not adherring to the speed limit, when it doesn't apply to them, was picked and ripped apart, they have responded to our request for a comment.

A Devon & Cornwall Police spokesperson told road.cc:

"Legislation does not require cyclists to adhere to the speed limit, although riders must not cycle in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner.

"Our officers are always mindful of road safety. As part of this, we ask cyclists to consider the impact the speed at which they are travelling could have on themselves - and those around them - in the event of a collision. This includes whether they would be able to sufficiently slow down or stop quickly enough should a hazard present itself, especially in built-up areas.

"On this occasion, road safety advice was given to a group of cyclists and no offences were recorded.

"This engagement - which carried a road safety, not speed enforcement, message - was received positively by the group. The speed limit was provided to give context in terms of what other road users would be expected to adhere to."

Hmm, fair play, if no offences were recorded and the message was received allegedly received positively by the group. But that makes one wonder, was the social media post just a poorly worded misadventure into the cyclists' speed-limit policing territory, or was that a genuine mistake by the team unaware of the Highway Code.

> "The charge for speeding on a bicycle is called pedalling furiously": Reaction to police shaming cyclists for ‘breaking the speed limit’

Either way, here's some reaction from the road.cc readers:

IanMK: "Educate and inform," Totally agree. Why not start with drivers? In fact, why not start with the drivers that respond incorrectly to your twitter feed? If they don't know this section of the highway code I suspect they'll be equally ignorant on other parts of it - like protecting vulnerable road users.

levestane: A bicycle can only decelerate at about half the rate of a typical car [somewhere in Bicycle Science]. There are quite a few hazards here (driveways, pedestrian crossing, junctions, poor visibility...). I'd probably be going slower, but that's just me.

Legin: Not unreasonable by the Police there; just becasue you are not breaking the law doesn't mean you should go do it.
Hopefully the conversation went, "I know the speed limit doesn't apply to you but don't be a ****ing bunch of ****holes as you know riding like this will wind the residents and other road users up; plus it may earn you a much more serious injury if you crash. Thank you and enjoy your ride." 

IanMSpencer: Myself, happy to exceed speed limits on a bike, typically on a downhill into a village where the speed limit is away from the built up area, but cyclists should cycle at a speed they can stop in, be it junctions, bends or other obstructions, so advice about excess speed in a built up area is appropriate.
Strangely, one place I seek to exceed the speed limit for my own safety is in a 20mph, yet over 20 is not sufficient for motorists to get frustrated and "need" to overtake, mainly because many believe that 20 is a war on motorists therefore does not apply (which also there excuses overtaking into oncoming traffic, and past obstructions and close passing... and holding up the cyclists you've passed).

EddyBerckx: Tbh I got no problems with police giving them friendly words of advice - without threats and so on, and WITHOUT putting it on social media where the predicable happens. Going into a village at speed is not cool regardless of what you drive / ride.
But honestly, cars never stick to 30mph when they have the choice of going faster and 37-39 is pretty much the minimum default speed they'll do without thinking.

NickSprink: I'll stick my neck out and say it may not be illegal to do 40 in a 30 zone on a bike, but is it sensible?  Would a pedestrian for example be expecting a bike to approach that fast?  By definition a 30 zone is a high risk zone, for all road users.
I believe that is was the police meant by offering "words of advice".

04 September 2023, 16:23
A much-needed buyer's guide for all: Best road bike upgrades under £50
Best road bike upgrades

Yes, you read that right. You don't have to spend the earth to make your bike lighter, more comfortable or more high-tech. Decent, even good, even great bike upgrades under £50 exist, and here are the best ones you can get your hands on!

> The best road bike upgrades under £50 2023 — get a better bike on a budget with these excellent components and accessories

04 September 2023, 15:55
Olav Kooij makes it two in two in the Tour of Britain as Jumbo-Visma seek to win it all

Double up, double down. Jumbo Visma on their way to the crown?

A relatively normal stage if you were to compare it with the Vuelta, with Jumbo-Visma going for hammer to the nail in the second stage in the northern part of Wales today.

Before the flag even dropped, there was an incident involving the highly rated Spanish GC rider Carlos Rodríguez, on the brink of signign a long-term contract with his team Ineos Grenadiers dropping to the ground, but stayed mostly unaffected.

On the shortest stage of the Tour (and on the hottest day of the year so far) starting and ending in Wrexham, with questions of whether the narrow streets would be safe enough for the bunch sprint finish (spoilers, it was thankfully), a quartet of riders decided to test their luck in the breakaway.

Movistar's Fernando Gaviria would be the next to go down, and the Columbian sprinter, after suffering a torrid day in Manchester, had some skin scrape off the palm of his right hand, and looked very uncomfortable in handling his bike.

Another big crash was to came later in the race, with just one categorised climb. A DSM rider touched shoulders with the race leader Olav Kooij, and then veered into the path of the yellow traffic cones on the edge of the road, going down hard in striking fashion, in what was a high-speed crash.

Wout van Aert was on leadout duty once again, and executed it to perfection, bringing Kooij home in the leaders' jersey and finishing third himself.

There was some confusion between the two Bora-Hansgrohe riders Danny van Poppel and Sam Bennett, finishing second and fourth respectively. Van Poppel looked as if he had no idea where Bennett, who was following his wheel was. He then ending up racing for the win himself, as the Irish rider was left disappointed, having backed out of going past his teammate at the last minute in the fears of getting squeezed into the barriers.

04 September 2023, 15:33
Latest in the world of "how to obey traffic signs" for cyclists

Maybe someday somewhere a police force would imagine this is how cyclists are supposed to be obeying the traffic laws and signs, and everyone will applaud as they go around enforcing.

Jokes aside, if you ever wondered about the traffic signs and what it meant for you as a cyclist, here's Simon's deep dive into the world of traffic semiotics from the weekend.

> Signs for cyclists – from ‘No cycling’ to ‘Except cycles’ here’s everything to look out for when riding on the road

04 September 2023, 14:48
Bus driver disciplined by employer for tailgating cyclist before calling police for rider "getting on his nerves"
Tailgating London bus driver (Twitter: Rendel Harris)

Bus operator Go-Ahead London apologised for the incident and said the driver had been identified and "dealt with formally, in accordance with our company's disciplinary procedure"...

> Bus driver disciplined by employer for tailgating cyclist before calling police for rider "getting on his nerves"

04 September 2023, 13:37
Not a YouGov poll, please

Not a poll on YouGov on speed-limit on cyclists, please!

Copying from the road.cc live blog now, are we YouGov?? Anyway, go vote on our poll!

04 September 2023, 12:23
2022 Wahoo Kickr Core vs Zwift Hub trainer patent
Wahoo and Zwift reach settlement in patent infringement dispute over "copycat" indoor trainer

Wahoo, after spending months in troubled waters, finally found some hope for its future in May this year, after a "significant" equity support from current and new investors, which brought a potential end to a troubling period for the brand, during which its credit rating was downgraded by leading agencies and 15 percent of its workforce was let go.

Now, Bicycle Retailer and Industry News has reported that it has come to a settlement agreement with Zwift over its legal action against the latter for alleged patent infringement over the Hub stationary trainer. 

In October last year, Wahoo claimed that Zwift's new Hub smart trainer infringes three patents related to the brand's Kickr Core static trainer, the cheapest direct drive option in the Wahoo range. The court case could has the potential to result in an injunction on the Zwift Hub, preventing its sale in certain areas.

> Anything look familiar? Wahoo sues Zwift and JetBlack claiming new Zwift Hub smart trainer is "copying the Kickr Core"

Wahoo had said: "By copying the KICKR CORE, Zwift has infringed three of Wahoo’s patents. By marketing a copy of Wahoo’s patent-protected device, Zwift has taken a shortcut that allows it to reap the benefit of Wahoo’s innovations, but without investing the time and money necessary to create Wahoo’s innovations.

"As a result, Wahoo is forced to file this action to stop Zwift’s infringement and to ensure Wahoo’s ability to continue its strong history of innovation."

Now, a court filing Thursday shows both sides are asking the court to dismiss Wahoo's patent suit against Zwift and any counterclaims, with each side to pay their own legal fees.

04 September 2023, 12:15
Blow a candle! Your favourite cycling website turns 15 🎈

If you hadn't noticed... It's our 15th birthday!

road.cc 15 years
04 September 2023, 12:02
The future is bright...

Nothing to see but young cyclists, serving some mega sprints yesterday at Deansgate, where yesterday's stage one ended.

And then, British Cycling riders meeting the stars of the future before signing on today in Wrexham.

 

04 September 2023, 11:53
"Technical, narrow and iffy road surface, what could go wrong?"

While the Tour of Britain kicked off yesterday, with another victory from the barnstorming Team Jumbo-Visma, Olav Kooij winning with a perfect leadout from Wout van Aert, who finished second himself, today's circuit in Wrexham has sent a few scratching their heads.

While the circuit is very narrow, with awkward barricade positioning and a mix of surfaces — a perfect recipe for disaster, do you think it allows for more technical intricacies and a refresh of team strategies than the same old, wide road bunch sprint finishes? 

04 September 2023, 11:28
Oh my, TalkTV

Remember Jeremy Vine's call for banning drivers from overtaking cyclists in cities from two weeks ago? Yep that's still going on TalkTV.

As Vine says, this was, indeed painful to listen to...

"I think bicycling is probably the worst thing for a big city. It causes more pollution, it causes more traffic chaos. Ban them"

Oh my, TalkTV... When will you learn?

04 September 2023, 10:59
Poll time: Should speed limits apply to cyclists?

We covered the  Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team's cautioning to cyclists apparently "breaking the speed limit", and reported on the reaction from cyclists and non-cyclists as well this morning.

> Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30mph zone despite speed limits not applying to bicycle riders

And as you'd expect, it is a heated topic and one that's dividing a lot of people, even cyclists. So where do you stand on this? Should speed limits apply to cyclists or not?

Quiz Maker

04 September 2023, 10:40
Can someone help this person with their Canyon Aeroad "disc of shame"
Canyon Aeroad Facebook community

Some comments from Facebook: "Fling the dork disc to the moon", "Yes, should be kept on. Also make sure you email customer service for your free wheel reflectors you are entitled to."

Everybody taking the mickey out of the poor fella...

04 September 2023, 09:32
Vuelta flight disruption (Twitter: Jetse Bol)
"In times of weighing every gram and doing everything for recovery, this is not really a moral booster": Vuelta riders' flight disruption woes, reach hotel at 3AM with no food...

One normal day at the Vuelta, that's all I had asked for. Heck, it's not even a stage day!

But as this Vuelta seems to be going, even rest days give no respite. This time, it was a literal storm, which has stirred up the storm.

Riders, after the two days of back-breaking climbs in Valencia and Murcia, with Bora Hansgrohe's Lennard Kämna taking the win in Caravaca de la Cruz, were hoping for one day to sit back, relax, unwing, and regain energy and form for the coming two weeks. However, the weather had other ideas, with a torrential outpour accompanied by very, very frightening thunder and lightning, rained on their parade.

Burgos BH's Dutch rider Jetse Bol joked: "Due to bad weather, our plane could not land in Valladolid but in Madrid Barajas. It's nice to shorten the Vuelta by 11 stages"

RadioCycling reported that one of the two chartered flights from Murcia to Valladolid, where tomorrow's stage will begin from, had to land in Madrid due to heavy rain, wind and a lightning storm. They were then transported three hours by bus to Valladolid, not arriving into hotels until just before 3am, with riders from DSM Firmenich, Lidl-Trek, Arkéa, Alpecin-Deceuninck, Burgos-BH and Lotto-Dstny affected.

The first flight - which departed Murcia only 15 minutes before the second one - did arrive safely in Valladolid, but they too were greeted with torrential rain and a lightning storm.

Now, Lidl-Trek's flat-maestro, who came third in the fourth stage of this Vuelta, Edward Theuns has tweeted to express his disappointment at the state of situations, saying that they didn't get any food after arriving at the hotel, and in times of weighing every gram and doing everything for recovery, "this is not really a moral booster".

Petition for Netflix to start a series on the Vuelta?

To add to Theuns' woes, his team did have refreshments ready, but only at the wrong airport...

Come on, surely they could have got something from you know, Lidl?

And then this video from the press officer for Soudal Quick-Step. You know I'm just waiting for some Remco reaction for the blog...

04 September 2023, 09:53
Hasta mañana Vuelta, or maybe not?

Give them a bloody break!

Tough words from Matt Rendell below, but do you agree with him?

04 September 2023, 09:21
We all needed the rest day after that dramatic first week of Vuelta

Hate to remind anyone, but does anyone remember what happened on the Giro rest day?

04 September 2023, 08:49
Bus driver calls police as a cyclist "got on his nerves", (probably) life-saving helmet, refurbished Manchester velodrome... buckle up for the weekend roundup

Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after graduating with a masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Wales, and also likes to writes about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.

Add new comment

84 comments

Avatar
perce | 10 months ago
3 likes

I'm just watching Sherlock Holmes on TV. One of the characters just shouted through a locked door '' Mrs Fenning! Master Bates!'' On daytime TV. How do they get away with it? Anyway, that's my whinge/ whine for the day.

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers replied to perce | 10 months ago
0 likes

perce wrote:

 Anyway, that's my whinge/ whine for the day.

You're only allowed one?

Avatar
Clem Fandango replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 10 months ago
3 likes

That was a cancelled Bond film wasn't it?

Fanny Fenning was slated for the theme song on that one.

Avatar
chrisonabike replied to Clem Fandango | 10 months ago
4 likes

I think you're confusing similar titles - "You're Only Allowed One!" was of course a slightly risque (for its day) Ealing Comedy featuring much innuendo and a classic scene with a fight over cargo-bike parking.

Avatar
perce replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 10 months ago
0 likes

One what?

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers replied to perce | 10 months ago
0 likes

Whinge/whine

Avatar
chuckd | 10 months ago
1 like

This Yank reads here regularly, chagrined.

This is likely the sanest thing I've read here in a liong time, amongst all the drama and hyperbole. My Good God you Brits are whiners (that's right, not "whingers", whiners):

NickSprink: I'll stick my neck out and say it may not be illegal to do 40 in a 30 zone on a bike, but is it sensible?  Would a pedestrian for example be expecting a bike to approach that fast?  By definition a 30 zone is a high risk zone, for all road users.
I believe that is was the police meant by offering "words of advice".

That's right. As I read this story I saw nothing about violating a law or a speed limit, or whether cyclists should, or any other point of pain expressed. The cop made a legitimate call to be mindful of why speed limits are posted to begin with, and it's not about authoritarian control. It's about public safety and the cycling world was given an advisory. That's what cops should do.

Sheesh, get over yourselves.

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to chuckd | 10 months ago
5 likes

chuckd wrote:

This Yank reads here regularly, chagrined.

Are you sure? What precisely is making you feel "embarrassed or humilated due to disappointment or failure", which is what chagrined means? Can we help?

Avatar
chuckd replied to Rendel Harris | 10 months ago
0 likes

Being a fellow cyclist, being hardcore before it was cool. A cycling commuter back to the 70s.

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers replied to chuckd | 10 months ago
0 likes

chuckd wrote:

This Yank reads here regularly, chagrined.

This is likely the sanest thing I've read here in a liong time, amongst all the drama and hyperbole. My Good God you Brits are whiners (that's right, not "whingers", whiners):

NickSprink: I'll stick my neck out and say it may not be illegal to do 40 in a 30 zone on a bike, but is it sensible?  Would a pedestrian for example be expecting a bike to approach that fast?  By definition a 30 zone is a high risk zone, for all road users.
I believe that is was the police meant by offering "words of advice".

That's right. As I read this story I saw nothing about violating a law or a speed limit, or whether cyclists should, or any other point of pain expressed. The cop made a legitimate call to be mindful of why speed limits are posted to begin with, and it's not about authoritarian control. It's about public safety and the cycling world was given an advisory. That's what cops should do.

Sheesh, get over yourselves.

I hope you realise that the average road.cc commenter here is in no way representative of the rest of the UK (thankfully)

Avatar
Clem Fandango replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 10 months ago
5 likes

Oh indeed.  The average person in the UK is totally oblivious to the wonders of obscure prog rock & death metal acts from the late '60s to present day and never takes part in illegal death street races which are apparently a thing.

Personally I wouldn't take what you read on the interweb as being "representative" of much at all.  Therein lies the path to ruin.  I prefer the path to Timmies.  Or my local.

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 10 months ago
2 likes

Left_is_for_Losers wrote:

I hope you realise that the average road.cc commenter here is in no way representative of the rest of the UK (thankfully)

Oh dear, I thought that for all your manifold faults you would at least be a patriot and yet here you are telling one of our overseas cousins that the rest of the UK isn't intelligent, kind, considerate, caring and interested in ways of improving society and our environment. That's not very patriotic of you. Heaven forfend that anyone should read these pages and think that you represent the average Briton...

Avatar
Left_is_for_Losers replied to Rendel Harris | 10 months ago
0 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

Oh dear, I thought that for all your manifold faults you would at least be a patriot and yet here you are telling one of our overseas cousins that the rest of the UK isn't intelligent, kind, considerate, caring and interested in ways of improving society and our environment. That's not very patriotic of you. Heaven forfend that anyone should read these pages I think that you represent the average Briton...

What, are you seriously suggesting that the average road.cc reader is intelligent, kind, considerate, caring and interested in ways of improving society and our environment?

Dunno what you've been reading, maybe you're getting mixed up. And, I thought you had a photographic memory, so surely you would know this. 

Avatar
perce replied to chuckd | 10 months ago
4 likes

I'd say I'm more of a whinger than a whiner but I don't really know the difference to be honest. I'm not sure if I'm representative of the whole of the UK though. Sorry.

Avatar
Hirsute replied to perce | 10 months ago
5 likes

Forget helmets, let's have whinger and whiner as the new divider

Avatar
mark1a replied to Hirsute | 10 months ago
1 like

No shortage of helmets here.

Avatar
Clem Fandango replied to Hirsute | 10 months ago
3 likes

Whinger & Whiner - the TalkTv version of Bodger & Badger?

Avatar
HoldingOn replied to Clem Fandango | 10 months ago
4 likes

Clem Fandango wrote:

Whinger & Whiner - the TalkTv version of Bodger & Badger?

 

Avatar
perce | 10 months ago
3 likes

I quite like my disc of shame. It's never done me any harm.

Avatar
Prosper0 | 10 months ago
0 likes

Make sure you make complaints to the IOPC

https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints/submit-a-complaint

Avatar
cmedred | 10 months ago
3 likes

As an American unfamiliar with TalkTV, I have a question. Are multiple chins a requirement of male employment there? 

Avatar
giff77 | 10 months ago
1 like

Argh. Wrong thread. 

Avatar
peted76 | 10 months ago
5 likes

Happy birthday Road.cc !! 

I think I hopped on the F.At wagon about 2013/14... it's been a cracking ten (ish) years for me  1

Keep it up!

I'm expecting a montage of some sorts.. 

Avatar
Steve K | 10 months ago
11 likes

Happy Birthday, road.cc.

Avatar
Hirsute | 10 months ago
3 likes

Some crimes will no longer be investigated as part of a project being piloted in the north east of Scotland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-66706656

No hope for driving offences commited against cyclists!

Avatar
Off the back replied to Hirsute | 10 months ago
3 likes

This is the Orkney and Shetland islands. Most serious crimes are sheep related. 

Avatar
eburtthebike | 10 months ago
4 likes

Not only do the police have no idea about speed limits and how they don't apply to cyclists, their grasp of English isn't too good either:

Cyclists, please be mindful of your speeds and just how this will effect  affect you in the event of a collision.

FTFT.

Avatar
IanMSpencer | 10 months ago
3 likes

I would keep the disc of shame on at least until I've ridden a bit and convinced myself that the chain limits are correctly set. One drop of the chain is enough to trash the spokes.

I do of course check these things being experienced, but as the OP is clearly not experienced, it makes sense to keep the tinker on until correct operation has been assured.

Avatar
KDee replied to IanMSpencer | 10 months ago
2 likes

I suspect the owner posted that with tongue firmly in cheek. An Aeroad with SRAM Red and wobbly Zipp wheels doesn't seem like the choice of a newbie.

Avatar
IanMSpencer replied to KDee | 10 months ago
3 likes

Round here I've seen people (as in 50 year old lardbuckets) pop to the cafe on £15,000 TT bikes in a gale, so I rarely relate expense with experience and ability.

Pages

Latest Comments