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"As a cyclist..." anti-LTN talkRadio rant; Bus driver pulls in on Jeremy Vine...but apparently it's the cyclist's fault; Peloton van blocks bike lane; Dowsett's Hour Record disappointment; Bike hangars, Valverde's final season + more on the live blog

It's Thursday live blog time and Dan Alexander is here, ready to take you one step closer to the weekend...
Thu, Nov 04, 2021 08:54
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"As a cyclist..." anti-LTN talkRadio rant; Bus driver pulls in on Jeremy Vine...but apparently it's the cyclist's fault; Peloton van blocks bike lane; Dowsett's Hour Record disappointment; Bike hangars, Valverde's final season + more on the live blogtalkRadio LTN chat (screenshot via talkRadio)
04 November 2021, 16:34
"As a cyclist..." anti-LTN talkRadio rant

"As a cyclist..." is normally a red flag when the context is a talkRadio phone-in.

Of course we could all be jumping to conclusions, but this cyclist was particularly against low traffic neighbourhoods, so much so they felt the need to call into Ian Collins' early afternoon show, ready to unload...

Maybe we're reading too much into it, but "I… I’m personally a cyclist, er, I cycle most places, however… however…" sounds like an undercover cop trying to infiltrate an organised crime-loving peloton.

With that out the way, the caller named Ediz gets to the main reason for his call, "There is an agenda to push away congestion and pollution onto others for longer hours, freeing up these, sort of, gated communities to say 'look how wonderful, look what we've done, we've reduced congestion and pollution in here'."

Ediz didn't face much scrutiny from Collins who nodded his head throughout, jumping in with regular points of agreement. The caller then went on to say families living on the borders of LTNs are "suffering more pollution, more congestion for longer hours. How is that good for the climate?", before suggesting councils strategically collect traffic-counting data during school holidays for more favourable lower readings.

A government survey from last November found that 8 out of 10 people support measures to reduce motor traffic, while seperate research at the same time found majority support for the capital's LTNs. Weeks later, traffic counter readings in Hackney showed that the borough's LTNs had not caused a rise in traffic on nearby main roads. While, research from March showed that low traffic neighbourhoods in London are not mainly introduced in more affluent areas.

04 November 2021, 17:07
04 November 2021, 17:03
Sure he can win the Tour...but could he do it during a cold, wet, windy rush hour in Elston?

Tweet of the day right there...come on Pog, show us what you've got...

04 November 2021, 15:35
The road.cc forum thread with all the best/worst driving fails

Cheers to OnYerBike for pointing me in the direction of one of our forum threads, titled 'Car crashes into building - please post your local news stories'. It was inspired by the Audis in houses website (yes, I'll be procrastinating the next 15 minutes over there) and it has turned into a thread of shocking, frightening, hilarious and downright bizarre photos of drivers' crashed vehicles in strange places. 

It saves me chucking 'but cyclists...' posts on here every day. Maybe we can save that honour for the best ones...

04 November 2021, 14:59
We heard from the moaning masses...but what did you make of that Jeremy Vine video?

Reaction time...we heard from the people blaming Jeremy Vine for virtually anything and everything earlier, now it's time for your thoughts and comments. For some reason I reckon they might be quite different...

On Facebook, John Edmund Gangy said: "Bus [driver] clearly at fault here. Real easy to slow down a bit and let the cyclist through."

George Ong agreed: "I am in Vine's camp! How could this be right? It is about time motor vehicles drivers treat cyclists as equal road users."

Giles Green commented: "How on earth that could be considered as the cyclists fault is beyond me, who would even come up with that conclusion? Bad driving, bad anticipation by the bus driver."

Graham Black continued the trend: "Bus [driver] is definitely in the wrong here, this is no different to a vehicle overtaking a cyclist then immediately turning left. But I suppose many drivers think that's ok too."

In fact, almost all our readers agreed Jeremy Vine was absolutely not in the wrong, we did get one reply suggesting Vine had made the situation "far worse than it needed to be"...strap yourselves in, it's a long one...

"My no doubt unpopular take on the Vine video was he made his position far worse than it needed to be, by riding into that vanishing gap like he did. Basically if I'm riding that lane, and you can debate for sure whether the bus driver is being considerate of Vine for overtaking and stopping, but we dont know if the bus was already planning to stop or someone pressed the stop button part way through as they passed each other, the bus [driver] can't slam on the brakes. 

"All you can then do as a cyclist in that situation is deal with the hand you are being dealt, and as soon as that indicator is on, I know what the bus is going to do, cheers bus driver thanks a bundle, not going on my Christmas card list, but I don't carry on riding as if the bus is going to bail out of what its doing at the last second, I dont want to be trapped on the inside of a bus, I'm going to quick shoulder check behind the bus, maybe apply a bit of brake though I think just easing off pedalling would create enough speed difference to drop in behind the bus and shift around it's right hand side and it's all done in seconds with no aggro at all and we carry on our merry ways."

Anymore thoughts?

04 November 2021, 14:13
Parliament to debate tougher sentences for hit and run drivers who cause death
Houses of Parliament (CC licensed by Rajan Manickavasagam:Flickr)

MPs are to debate tougher sentences for hit and run drivers who cause death after a petition reached 104,324 signatures. The debate will be held on 15 November 2021 and will question if the maximum penalty for failure to stop after an incident should be increased. Currently the maximum penalty is points and a six-month custodial sentence. Causing death by careless/dangerous driving is between 5 -14 years.

The government's official response to the petition is: "It is wholly irresponsible for drivers to fail to stop and report an incident. However, the offence of failing to stop should not be used to punish an offender for a serious, but not proven, offence."

The debate will be available to watch online on the UK Parliament YouTube channel...

04 November 2021, 14:05
Oh the irony...Peloton-shaped bike lane blockage

04 November 2021, 12:27
Cardiff cyclists left waiting more than a year for bike hangars

Cyclists in Cardiff have been left waiting more than a year for a promised trial of bike hangars. Wales Online reports Cardiff Council announced the trial in October 2020, but more than a year later, no hangars have been installed. The trial was promised following a petition from Cardiff Cycle City, which gained more than 500 signatures. 

A spokesman for Cardiff Cycle City said: "It’s great the council are getting on with building new protected cycle tracks, but lack of infrastructure isn’t the only thing that prevents people from cycling.

"Many people live in terraced houses, flats, or houses of multiple occupation, that have no space for storing bikes, while the roadside space outside their house is filled with parked cars. We think it’s only fair to offer some of this space to people to store their bikes by installing cycle hangars, which make more efficient use of the kerbside as six bikes can be stored in the same space as half a car.

"If the council is serious about the climate emergency, and its ambition of getting people to switch from driving to cycling short journeys, then it is essential that cycle hangars are installed quickly and in large numbers."

Yesterday, Portsmouth City Council announced they had approved an extension to the city's bike hangar scheme.

04 November 2021, 12:24
04 November 2021, 11:39
There's life in the old dog yet...Alejandro Valverde confirms he'll continue racing in 2022 for 21st season as a pro

2022 will be Alejandro Valverde's last dance as a professional cyclist. After 21 years in the pro peloton, spanning back to the 2002 season, next year will be his final one. In that time he's won the World Championship road race, four Liège–Bastogne–Liège, five Flèche Wallonne, the Vuelta, 17 Grand Tour stages and just about every hilly race in between.

The 41-year-old announced the news via a video shared on his team's Twitter, backing up his previous quotes saying it's "with absolute certainty" 2022 will be his final year. The most recent campaign has been quiet by the Spaniard's exceptional standards, only winning three races. Valverde came close to winning a fifth stage of the Tour de France but was bested by Sepp Kuss on the stage finishing in Andorra.

04 November 2021, 11:33
Ominous...
Jeremy Vine trending

And it's got nothing to do with that bus video...

04 November 2021, 10:50
ProBikeKit launches Movember Cycling Club in fight for men's health — ride 150 miles this month for a chance to win £500 gift voucher

 

Movember Cycling Club

ProBikeKit and Movember have come together to unite the cycling industry this November, all in the name of raising funds and awareness for men's health. They've created the Movember Cycling Club (MCC) and will be hosting a number of activities and fundraising events throughout the month, including the 150 #MilesForMo Strava Cycling Challenge, an online silent auction and a limited edition merchandise collection including Little James Arnold prints.

More than 80,000 people have already joined the 150 #MilesForMo challenge, with ProBikeKit donating £1 to Movember for each participant who rides 150 miles this month. Completing the challenge will also earn you a ProBikeKit discount code and chance of winning a £500 gift voucher.

04 November 2021, 10:45
But cyclists...

Yesterday, I jokingly threatened to make this a regular feature. If pics like this keep rolling in, I'll have no choice.

First, we had the HGV being pulled out of Bristol harbour, then yesterday it was the BMW perched on a Tesco bollard...

Today, it's a Jaguar driver seeking a bit of extra elevation...if only that bollard was wearing hi-vis...

04 November 2021, 10:40
Yes, I am making sure my niece WILL be a cyclist...

Can I point you in the direction of one of our buyer's guides, Laura? 

04 November 2021, 10:08
Brooks adds a splash of colour to its Cambium saddle
2021 Open House Brooks Cambium

Ooo what’s that, some anodised blue on a Brooks saddle? The new limited edition 2021 Open House version of Brooks’ Cambium saddle features the bicycle saddle manufacturer’s rivets in anodised blue to match the components of Chris King’s seasonal range and this is contrasted against an anthracite-coloured, vulcanised-rubber saddle surface. It’s a bold look.

2021 Open House Brooks Cambium

Available in both the C17 Carved and the slimmer C15 Carved shapes, these Brooks saddles are designed to be the ideal adventure companion thanks to its all-weather performance. Reviewer John described the ‘hammock’ saddle design as “supremely comfortable” and now you can get this all-day comfort to paired up perfectly with Chris King components.

04 November 2021, 09:29
"The biggest failure would have been to have never tried": Alex Dowsett reacts to Hour Record attempt

Alex Dowsett ultimately came up short in his bid to reclaim the Hour Record, despite adding 1.618km to his previous best. The 33-year-old hit the 54.555km mark by the end of the hour and his JustGiving page, raising money for The Haemophilia Society, has raised more than £31,000 at the time of writing.

> Alex Dowsett reveals his hour record bike for tomorrow’s attempt

Despite not breaking Victor Campenaerts' record of 55.089km, Dowsett said the event had achieved its biggest goal – raising awareness of haemophilia.

"The biggest failure today would have been to have never tried and that’s the message I want to send out," the Brit said afterwards. "I spent my childhood being told what I couldn’t do. My mum, my dad, and I, we knew what we couldn’t do – football, rugby, boxing – so we set about finding what we could do. We turned a negative into an absolute positive and I’ve been able to carve a massive career out of adversity.

"That should be the message. Life can throw you a bad hand at times but it’s what you make of it. It’s how you deal with it. That’s as far as I can go and I’m proud of that and the distance that I managed to cover today but the most important point today was the awareness that we’ve brought to haemophilia."

04 November 2021, 08:36
Bus driver pulls in on Jeremy Vine...but apparently it's the cyclist's fault

We shared this video on yesterday's live blog, but since then the reaction has blown up...mainly with people feeling they've found fault with Jeremy Vine, and not the bus driver cutting him up...

So what happened? Vine was cycling in the cycle lane, the bus driver approached from behind...overtook the cyclist, started indicating and immediately pulled into the stop, forcing Vine to brake and go around. The alternative? The driver waited a few seconds, waited for Vine to pass the bus lane, checked nothing else was coming and then pulled into the bus stop a couple of seconds later than in the real scenario. Is it ridiculous to think that's fairly uncontroversial? Apparently so...

The broadcaster has been inundated with replies from people blaming him for the incident and defending the bus driver. Exhibit A:

And another...

And one more... 

Vine said he was particularly shocked by the driver's response to his use of the horn, explaining: "Not even a waved apology. I can forgive anything when there's an apology."

So in summary, in the replies, we had: cyclists shouldn't expect a non-stop commute, he indicated and you should have slowed down, why should the bus driver wait for a cyclist, both at fault, you should be aware of your surroundings, I would have slowed down quicker, the bus driver shouldn't hold up traffic to wait, cyclists should give way at the end of cycle lanes, you seem to be actively manufacturing these situations to make good videos. 

I'll let Graeme King have the final say: 

Thoughts?

Dan Alexander

Dan is the road.cc news editor and has spent the past four years writing stories and features, as well as (hopefully) keeping you entertained on the live blog. Having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for the Non-League Paper, Dan joined road.cc in 2020. Come the weekend you'll find him labouring up a hill, probably with a mouth full of jelly babies, or making a bonk-induced trip to a south of England petrol station... in search of more jelly babies.

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168 comments

Avatar
espressodan | 2 years ago
1 like

"...the offence of failing to stop should not be used to punish an offender for a serious, but not proven, offence.""

Ummmm....... Huh???

Avatar
Bungle_52 replied to espressodan | 2 years ago
3 likes

"...the offence of failing to stop should not be used to punish an offender for a serious, but not proven, offence.""

Ummmm....... Huh???

I think waht they are getting at is that if a driver fails to stop after hitting a cyclist and killing them then they should only be sentenced for causing death by dangerous driving if it can be proved that the driver caused the death not sentenced "merely" because they didn't stop. It could have been entirely the cyclist fault for example.

This partly misses the point however as failing to stop to render assistance and call 999 may have contributed to the death and therefore should be punished in it's own right. As the driver can't possibly know the extent of the injuries the argument could be made that they should be sentenced as if the victim did need assistance to prevent death.

Avatar
wycombewheeler replied to espressodan | 2 years ago
2 likes

espressodan wrote:

"...the offence of failing to stop should not be used to punish an offender for a serious, but not proven, offence."" Ummmm....... Huh???

I think 

If a driver is found not guilty of causing death by dangerous driving, and guilty of failing to stop, then the defendant should not be sentanced as if they were guilty of DbDD.

However, this misses the point of the petition. Failing to stop is likely significant, we know that for serious injuries they talk about the golden hour. i.e. medical treatment needs to commence as soon as possoible after the injury. A driver who chooses to go on their merry way in the hope it will never be discovered that it was their fault, significantly reduces the chance of treatment within the crucial time.

Therefore by concisous choice, rather than error (if we consider bad driving to be an error) they have potentially caused the death of the injured party. It should not be necesary to prove it was crucial in this specific case, because failing to stop and render aid needs to be stopped at a population level.

Avatar
GMBasix replied to wycombewheeler | 2 years ago
4 likes

A driver who chooses to go on their merry way in the hope it will never be discovered that it was their fault, significantly reduces the chance of treatment within the crucial time.[/quote]

And that is the crucial connection:  while the dangerous driving itself should be proved, the act of driving off is axiomatically suspicious enough to consider dangerous driving more likely and is also an aggravating factor.  Why else would you drive off? If you didn't cause it, stay around, get help, maintain the evidence that helps to prove that it wasn't your fault in the first place.

Avatar
marmotte27 | 2 years ago
4 likes

How about journalists educate themselves (or better yet, are compulsorily -wow, apparently that's really a word - educated by their bosses, editors, unions or supervising bodies) on the topics they treat? Someone who talks about traffic on the media should have heard about induced and evaporating traffic....

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mdavidford | 2 years ago
14 likes

To be fair to Peloton, they probably don't expect bikes to actually move.

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wycombewheeler replied to mdavidford | 2 years ago
0 likes

mdavidford wrote:

To be fair to Peloton, they probably don't expect bikes to actually move.

to many people cycling in real lfie and not on their machines, make real cycling less attractive

Avatar
OnYerBike | 2 years ago
3 likes

"Yesterday, I jokingly threatened to make this a regular feature. If pics like this keep rolling in, I'll have no choice."

Dan - have you seen this forum thread: https://road.cc/content/forum/car-crashes-building-please-post-your-loca...

(Inspired by the wonderfully named Audis in Houses)

Avatar
Captain Badger | 2 years ago
10 likes

Quote:

Cardiff cyclists left waiting more than a year for bike hangars

Don't know what the fuss is about. Get a car, you can park it on the pavement today.....

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alchemilla | 2 years ago
2 likes

Re JV - I see this as an issue of courtesy amongst road users. The highway code may well say the bus driver has priority, and he has a timetable to keep to, but honestly...
The driver knew he was about to pull in, and out of courtesy to a vulnerable road user, as well as safety, he should have held back and slipped in behind. It wouldn't have taken much effort, but a bit of forward planning which many drivers seem incapable of.
Imo, the manoeuvre carried out by the bus driver is exactly the same as the left-turning HGVs which have killed a number of London cyclists. Also the same as those times when you're driving on the inside lane of a motorway and as you approach a slip road, some cuts across you at speed from the outside lane onto the slip road. It's poor and dangerous driving, lack of forward planning, and the need for speed. Driver education course required.

Avatar
GMBasix replied to alchemilla | 2 years ago
14 likes

alchemilla wrote:

The highway code may well say the bus driver has priority, and he has a timetable to keep to

That's precisely the point:  it doesn't say that; the bus driver doesn't have priority. The timetable is a matter between him and his management, nobody else on the road.  Fully agree with your other points.

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nicmason | 2 years ago
2 likes

Good to see the usual groupthink roadcc suspects getting their typing fingers out as they wonder why there are other people using their roads. 

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hawkinspeter replied to nicmason | 2 years ago
11 likes

nicmason wrote:

Good to see the usual groupthink roadcc suspects getting their typing fingers out as they wonder why there are other people using their roads. 

You keep using the word "groupthink", but it does not mean the same as a consensus of opinion.

I replied to your previous comment with my thoughts and if you think that I am incorrect, then I would welcome any corrections.

Avatar
Steve K replied to hawkinspeter | 2 years ago
17 likes

Yes, I really don't get this whole 'group think'.  Who'd have thought that on a website aimed at cyclists, you have a lot of people with a similar view of cycling.  It's a bit like going on a Crystal Palace website and being suprised everyone seems to support Crystal Palace...

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nicmason replied to Steve K | 2 years ago
0 likes

if you think your views represent all cyclists I'm amazed more arent having avoidable accidents.

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Steve K replied to nicmason | 2 years ago
9 likes

nicmason wrote:

if you think your views represent all cyclists I'm amazed more arent having avoidable accidents.

Would you like to point to one of my stated views would lead to avoidable accidents?  

Avatar
Captain Badger replied to Steve K | 2 years ago
11 likes

Steve K wrote:

nicmason wrote:

if you think your views represent all cyclists I'm amazed more arent having avoidable accidents.

Would you like to point to one of my stated views would lead to avoidable accidents?  

That people are allowed to ride bikes?

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Steve K | 2 years ago
9 likes

Steve K wrote:

Yes, I really don't get this whole 'group think'.  Who'd have thought that on a website aimed at cyclists, you have a lot of people with a similar view of cycling.  It's a bit like going on a Crystal Palace website and being suprised everyone seems to support Crystal Palace...

It's not just that though. The whole issue with 'groupthink' is that people are afraid to put across differing viewpoints and to put forward novel ideas. Meanwhile, on road.cc, there's a whole bunch of differing viewpoints and there's quite often novel ideas being floated.

Playing the 'groupthink' card just sounds like dog whistles to me.

Avatar
Hirsute replied to Steve K | 2 years ago
10 likes

Is Rendel still in the groupthink club ? Or is he out ? Well, we can discuss tomorrow.

We meet the first Friday of every month in the parish hall to discuss our groupthink approach on road.cc. Please bring cake.

Avatar
GMBasix replied to Hirsute | 2 years ago
9 likes

hirsute wrote:

Is Rendel still in the groupthink club ? Or is he out ? Well, we can discuss tomorrow.

We meet the first Friday of every month in the parish hall to discuss our groupthink approach on road.cc. Please bring cake.

Should we all bring the same cake?

Avatar
Hirsute replied to GMBasix | 2 years ago
3 likes

We need a nut free cake and a gluten free cake plus a normal one as a minimum.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Hirsute | 2 years ago
3 likes

hirsute wrote:

We need a nut free cake and a gluten free cake plus a normal one as a minimum.

Can we have a gluten-free acorn one as well please?

Avatar
Hirsute replied to hawkinspeter | 2 years ago
3 likes

I *think* acorns are seeds not nuts so that would be a good one to have.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Hirsute | 2 years ago
1 like

hirsute wrote:

I *think* acorns are seeds not nuts so that would be a good one to have.

From https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/knowledgebase/tree-nut-allergy-acorns/

Quote:

Acorns

Parents of children with allergy to tree nuts (such as walnuts, almonds, Brazils or cashew) have occasionally asked if their child would be likely to have an allergic reaction while playing with acorns.

The worldwide medical literature contains a few reports of people suffering severe allergic reactions after eating acorns. We are not aware of any research studies or case reports of allergic reactions associated with skin exposure to acorns in people with nut allergy.

Acorns belong to the plant family called Fagaceae. This family is different to those of tree nuts. The proteins that cause allergy in acorns are different to those that produce allergy to tree nuts or peanuts.

Our expert medical reviewer tells us: “I have seen vast numbers of children with nut and peanut allergies but none has ever reported reactions to playing with acorns.”

To confuse matters, botanically acorns are oak tree nuts.

Avatar
Steve K replied to hawkinspeter | 2 years ago
1 like

hawkinspeter wrote:

To confuse matters, botanically acorns are oak tree nuts.

Botanically, aren't most of the things we think of as nuts, not actually nuts - eg Brazil nuts and peanuts.

Avatar
GMBasix replied to Hirsute | 2 years ago
4 likes

hirsute wrote:

We need a nut free cake and a gluten free cake plus a normal one as a minimum.

Don't!! You Know Who will feel like it's a dig at him.

Avatar
brooksby replied to GMBasix | 2 years ago
2 likes

GMBasix wrote:

hirsute wrote:

Is Rendel still in the groupthink club ? Or is he out ? Well, we can discuss tomorrow.

We meet the first Friday of every month in the parish hall to discuss our groupthink approach on road.cc. Please bring cake.

Should we all bring the same cake?

You should know - we shouldn't have to tell you 3

Avatar
lonpfrb replied to GMBasix | 2 years ago
2 likes
GMBasix wrote:

Should we all bring the same cake?

Hmm, you mean Quantum Cake that we may all have, so long as nobody opens the tin to look at it, or do you mean the same kind of group-cake?

Avatar
Hirsute replied to lonpfrb | 2 years ago
2 likes

Sorry, we finished early.
See you next month.
Mince pies or stollen maybe acceptable for December.

Avatar
mdavidford replied to lonpfrb | 2 years ago
1 like

The cake is a lie.

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