"As a cyclist..." anti-LTN talkRadio rant; Bus driver pulls in on Jeremy Vine...but apparently it's the cyclist's fault; Peloton van blocks bike lane; Dowsett's Hour Record disappointment; Bike hangars, Valverde's final season + more on the live blog

But it remains the moving traffic's gift to give, not the emerging vehicle's right to take.

Other traffic permitting, I normally pull out to overtake buses at stops with plenty of space and time. However if they then indicate to pull out before I get there, I will actually slot back in behind them. I will provisio that I'm normally in "shared use" bus lanes at the time so the next bus stop I will more then likely complete the overtake but would prefer the bus to be in front then feet behind me usually. 

hawkinspeter wrote:

Currently, road laws do not prioritise busses

Bus lanes prioritise busses when there is reason and space to do so.

Otherwise they have no special priority in general except considerate road users such as you..

lonpfrb wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Currently, road laws do not prioritise busses

Bus lanes prioritise busses when there is reason and space to do so.

Otherwise they have no special priority in general except considerate road users such as you..

Another one of my annoyances with almost all "infrastructure" in the UK is that it specifically makes use of bus lanes (same tarmac, two modes!). Round Edinburgh at least there are almost no "permanent" e.g. 24 hour bus lanes. So hey presto - another cycling "facility" which doesn't just disappear in space (at junctions) but also winks out of existence outside of rush hour and at weekends!

Plus almost all allow parking in them outside of operation and indeed some have specifically marked parking places.

I know plenty here are happy with bus lanes as cycle lanes in general but do these "features" not make this look like another "extra lane for the same paint" exercise?

https://cyclingfallacies.com/en/31/bus-lanes-provide-good-conditions-for-cycling

chrisonatrike wrote:

Another one of my annoyances with almost all "infrastructure" in the UK is that it specifically makes use of bus lanes (same tarmac, two modes!). Round Edinburgh at least there are almost no "permanent" e.g. 24 hour bus lanes. So hey presto - another cycling "facility" which doesn't just disappear in space (at junctions) but also winks out of existence outside of rush hour and at weekends!

At rush hour we get to share a moonscape with buses but I'd rather have that than nothing - at least the lane is wide and whilst outside city centres, even at peak times they're not as busy as the gridlocked rest of the road, and your average LRT driver is better than the average phone operator at the wheel of each car.

Mind you. 6.27 pm is probably the most dangerous time to be on the road as all the arseholes who are unwilling to share public transport with their inferiors dive into the bus lane.

In Reading taxis are allowed in bus lanes, definitely most of them.  The drivers of taxis are much more impatient than those of buses, some of whom, even though they seem to still drive like they are in their small family runabout not an 8 1/2 tonne behemoth, do occasionally realise that they are going to have to stop in a bit anyway.

Though of course as JV showed, and I have suffered a few of those myself, some just cannot stop it with the impatience or sense of entitlement.

I believe its a hackney/black cab exemption thing again that allows them to use bus lanes in general, of course its down to enforcement to prevent minicabs doing the same thing.

nicmason wrote:

Jeremy Vine at fault. Bus goes past him then starts to indicate. He should have braked had a look and gone round. 

This is a blatant and deliberate lie. The bus was not past him when it started to indicate and pull in. The fact that you have to lie in order to claim the JV was at fault makes it obvious that you know he wasn't.

if I'm cycling and a bus appears beside me and starts indicating as it passes I have two choices.

Choice 1 get my copy of the highway code  out and double check I have right of way  and then carry on cycling into a closing gap and be suprised at the outcome.

Choice 2. Bit of brake check behind me move out go past the bus.

its called traffic. You should try it.

nicmason wrote:

if I'm cycling and a bus appears beside me and starts indicating as it passes I have two choices.

Choice 1 get my copy of the highway code  out and double check I have right of way  and then carry on cycling into a closing gap and be suprised at the outcome.

Choice 2. Bit of brake check behind me move out go past the bus.

its called traffic. You should try it.

Reductive sarcasm usually misses the nuance that precedes it.

if you where a stick of rock it would say pedant all the way through.

nicmason wrote:

if you where a stick of rock it would say pedant all the way through.

Feel better for getting that off your chest?

thesaurus out of reach behind the toilet ?

nicmason wrote:

if I'm cycling and a bus appears beside me and starts indicating as it passes I have two choices.

Choice 1 get my copy of the highway code  out and double check I have right of way  and then carry on cycling into a closing gap and be suprised at the outcome.

Choice 2. Bit of brake check behind me move out go past the bus.

its called traffic. You should try it.

If I'm driving a bus and I see a cyclist ahead as I'm approaching a bus stop, I have at least two choices:

1. remember my driving training and slow down so that I can slip behind the cyclist to pull in at the bus stop
2. get my copy of the Daily Fail, read about how LTNs are destroying lives and decide to punish the red light jumping cyclist by pulling alongside and trying to crush him against the kerb like the insect that he is

That's called a stupid argument - you should recognise it

nicmason wrote:

Choice 1 get my copy of the highway code  out and double check I have right of way  and then carry on cycling into a closing gap and be suprised at the outcome.

Surprised and angry are two different things. I don't think anyone here is surprised that the bus driver is arrogant and dangerous enough to simply bully the cyclist out of his way, but so what? He is still absolutely in the wrong and he absolutely should be castigated for it. 
It has also been spotted that you're moving the goal posts. You lied and said the bus was past him not just to defend the driver but to say JV was at fault. JV was not at fault for anything. He avoided the collision that the bus driver tried to have.

Quote:

its called traffic. You should try it.

"It's traffic" is not and cannot be an excuse for dangerous driving that puts vulnerable road users at risk. That's an insane point of view. If you were mugged at knife point then "It's called London, mate" would not be an acceptable defence of the muggers, would it?

Wingguy wrote:

. If you were mugged at knife point then "It's called London, mate" would not be an acceptable defence of the muggers, would it?

For this pearl I'm prepared to overlook that you should obv be called Doorguy. Swlxder will be along in a minute.

nicmason wrote:

Jeremy Vine at fault. Bus goes past him then starts to indicate. He should have braked had a look and gone round. 

IMO a bus full of people has priority over individual travellers. it makes public transport work better

IMO a board full of commenters has priority over individual contrarians. You should have paused, re-read your comment, and not posted it. It makes the internet work better.

[I assume that's how this works...]

If there had been another cyclist behind JV, and he had braked, so that the second cyclist hit JV, who would have been at fault nicmason?

1.  he only needs to brake gently  

2 if you cycle or drive  into the back of someone its almost always going to be your fault. bikes are no different to cars . if you're too close to stop you're too close. 

I have been crashed into by someone who was much more concerned with their own journey than what was happening around them and they snapped off my derailleur. I was none to pleased. maybe I should have demanded their insurnace details.

nicmason wrote:

1.  he only needs to brake gently  

2 if you cycle or drive  into the back of someone its almost always going to be your fault. bikes are no different to cars . if you're too close to stop you're too close. 

I have been crashed into by someone who was much more concerned with their own journey than what was happening around them and they snapped off my derailleur. I was none to pleased. maybe I should have demanded their insurnace details.

1. or harder. or really hard. or maybe he did brake but so did the bus, so they stayed level.

2. ... as the bus pulls into the side of him and he brakes enough to miss it and keep behind.

You're saying all the things that JV could have done, and it turns out, did; while holding back on the fundamental criticism that the bus driver went to pass another vehicle, knowing (or liable to know) that he was closely approaching a bus stop.

I always try to show consideration to buses but I won't be bullied into doing so.

Awavey wrote:

. but we dont know if the bus was already planning to stop or someone pressed the stop button part way through as they passed each other,

Indicator is on at 18s as the front door is just past Jeremy (check glow in bottom right corner of image). If the bus driver releases the loud pedal when he turns on the indicator, the bus slows and drops in behind Jeremy easily. Instead the bus driver keeps going at the same speed rushing to the bus stop and making a more severe stop, which also makes it look like Jeremy is not slowing, because both road users are on their brakes they stay side by side, while the bus is moving left.

Awavey wrote:

, I'm going to quick shoulder check behind the bus, maybe apply a bit of brake though I think just easing off pedalling would create enough speed difference to drop in behind the bus and shift around it's right hand side an.

This is clearly nonsense because Jeremy is using his brakes, but as the bus is now braking hard for the bus stop it's not possible to slide in behind by merely stopping pedaling. 

the bus driver could have chosen to do alot of things differently, but we are not in control of the bus or the driver, we as cyclists in this situation can only react to the circumstances we find ourselves in.And Im saying dont react by riding up the inside of that bus, because thats the wrong choice to make, even if it makes good angry cyclist video content for your social media channel.

the point about slotting in behind the bus, theres a decision point, quite early in that video, where the bus is going clearly more than a few mph faster than Vine is pedalling at and not braking, to be able to overtake like that, and if you as a rider accept at that point the bus is going to do its thing regardless of you and you release your loud pedal, you will drop enough speed and initially its not that much speed at all to just drop back far enough behind the bus and swing around it before anyone needs to be on the brakes to stop.

The longer you leave that decision point, and it might only be a matter of seconds, the more likely you need to use the brakes to do the same thing. But for an urban commuter, this stuff should be second nature. Drivers are always putting you in positions like this, in fact lots of Londons roads seem positively tailored to create these kinds of conflicts, where youll need to loop around something thats trying to occupy space in front of you and most London cyclists Ive witnessed become quite adept at handling it.

Vine had to use the brakes and stop, because at no point does it look like he is even considering he wants to move around the bus, he wants to carry on riding where he is, and let the bus sort itself out, even though as I say the road directly ahead of him doesnt lend itself to maintaining that positioning and he was going to have to move over right and account for vehicles coming up from behind him anyway to ensure he had the space, in which case why be making such a big deal about this.

and that comes back to this point that alot of his videos he shares and gets alot of social media impressions on, have this style where he rides into situations that he could easily have avoided, that I think most experienced cyclists would have avoided in the same circumstances, theres rarely one Ive seen where Ive thought nope didnt see that coming from a mile out.

Nigel Garage wrote:

"Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don’t."

Nigel Garage wrote:

Fantastic post Awavey, I couldn't have put it better myself.

As the world-famous psychologist Jordan B Peterson writes in his book 12 Rules for life, "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world" and "Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don’t."

I'd suggest many on this forum would benefit more than most on leafing through its contents, especially the chapters quoted above.

As far as I can tell, MrForage, your 3 posts have all been excellent.

Please keep it up.

Why are all the people you quote "world Famous" or "top lawyers" Nigel Gar(r)age?  Is that you like to appeal to authority?

TBH, he has point about assuming someone might have more knowledge. However we have had enough input from Boo in his many guises to now know we don't need to worry.