Danish rider apologises to Team GB's Charlie Tanfield for team pursuit confrontation; TotalEnergies sign Sagan; 1980s Volvo bike; Italy's stunning WR; Transconti champ's 280-mile detour; Paris scenes; Cav's cat; Motorway madness + more on the live blog

would I be cynical to think alot of those convoluted qualifying systems were designed specifically to stop one team dominating the competition all the time

remember if you fail to set a time because your own equipment fails you get another go, but if you fail to set a time because you are taken out by an opponent, thats just tough breaks.

GB look a long way from dominating anything at the moment anyway.

mdavidford wrote:

Road.cc live blog mocking Total Energies copy and paste cock-up - glass houses anybody?

how dare you. Roadcc don't cut and paste, they just change the date at the top and resubmit.

The line-ups for the 3rd to 8th races were decided by the times set by the teams who didn't make the gold medal race. Since Tanfield had to recover, pick himself up off the track, and limp round the rest of the lap, his eventual time was minutes slower than anybody else's, and GB were ranked last out of the six teams, hence going into the lowest ranked placings race.

mdavidford wrote:

The line-ups for the 3rd to 8th races were decided by the times set by the teams who didn't make the gold medal race. Since Tanfield had to recover, pick himself up off the track, and limp round the rest of the lap, his eventual time was minutes slower than anybody else's, and GB were ranked last out of the six teams, hence going into the lowest ranked placings race.

That can't be right surely? He was taken down by an 'at fault' rival rider - they shouldn't be punished for that??

GB was caught by Denmark so were effectively the slowest of all the teams so went into the 7th/8th ride off.

Technically the crash with Denmark happened after the race was complete as Denmark had caught GB.

That was my understanding of the decision too, I just wasnt sure as to what they deemed 'finals' for the catch rule to be in effect.

It changed didnt it, because you used to have to pass and just carry on,but I remember it nixed the women TeamGBs run once at WR pace at an event iirc, and it's the team pursuit so,pursuit accomplished end of race. I guess the commissaire with the starter/stop pistol wasnt paying enough attention to the position of riders on track to signal it quick enough.

I still think Madsen thought Tanfield was the 4th GB rider and would just drop out the way as I noticed in the prelims, riders werent staying high for long and getting down to that line quickly, easier to do with only one team on track then but it might have been a moment of hesitation/confusion.

I thought that once a team was caught you had to move out of the way to allow the slower team to finish and post a time. The Danes may have finished their run but GB hadn't. By taking out Tanfield I would have thought that was the rule that was broken. Honestly, I think GB would still have been relagated but Denmark would be DQ. 

I still suspect that the Danes vs Italy was too juicey to ignore and that's why they didn't DQ them and let's be honest they weren't wrong. What a final.

It could be for the Olympics that the race is over when a team is caught and there is no requirement to post a time.

If more than one team were to be caught then the order could be decided by the distance each team achieved before being caught.

The best two teams made the final.  GB also posted an excellent time in the 7th/8th run off but were never going to match Italy or Denmark.

Reading all your replies, you don't seem to fully understand the rules. 

Once a team has been caught, the catching team (Denmark) have to swing up and allow the caught team to finish their timed effort. You'll note as soon as the gun sounded, the other two Danes swung up, but the knobber with his head in his hands ploughed straight into Tanfield.

So technically Denmark won the heat by making the catch, but then they impeded GB by taking out their rider. This is going to rumble on, the UCI will bring in new rules I think, because that was an embarrassment, the Dane in no way could see where he was going, not through his arms or front, if you look at his position just a split second before the crash.

Yes you are correct.  Denmark had made the catch (got within 1 meter) but then impeded GB who should have been allowed to complete their ride to post a time.

I guess the commissaires used some flexibilty and judgement for their decision.  But yes maybe the rules will be tidied up to handle this type of scenario in the future.

Technically they didn't catch them - they ploughed into the back of them instead. For the catch to be complete, they had to pass him.

In any case, though, the catch would only have ended the race for Denmark - GB would still have needed to keep riding to set a time and determine which placings race they went into. If you look at the results, Denmark aren't given a time (because they were treated as having made the catch), but GB were, because they finished the distance.

Quote:

That can't be right surely? He was taken down by an 'at fault' rival rider - they shouldn't be punished for that??

Well no, but the whole system that can dump you from a semi-final into a 7/8 race is pretty daft to start with.

The rules state that once the chasing team gets within 1 meter of the other team then the catch is made.

So the Danish team did catch GB and the race was over.  They then went on to plough into the back of Tanfield.

sean1 wrote:

The rules state that once the chasing team gets within 1 meter of the other team then the catch is made.

Huh - you're right - oddly, in the individual you have to pass them, but in the team you only have to get within one metre. Although it's ambiguous as to how that's measured - is it back of rear wheel to front of front wheel (in which case they'd caught them), or chainset to chainset as it is for the individual (in which case they hadn't).

In any case, though...

sean1 wrote:

So the Danish team did catch GB and the race was over.

It was only over for the Danish team - GB still had to ride on.

UCI wrote:

In the last two heats of the first competition round, if one team catches the other, the catching team is declared the winner and shall stop as soon as possible in order to allow the other team to finish the distance and thus to record a time.

Of course, it's a big assumption that, had they not crashed, GB would have made the bronze medal race anyway. Given how badly Tanfield was detached, it's quite possible that the time he would have set would have seen them end up in one of the minor placing races in any case.

Yes that is a good point.  Technically GB had to ride on to record a time. So not sure how this is interpreted by the commissaires as the Danish team did cause GB to crash and so prevent them recording a time (or only a very slow time).

I guess pragmatism won the day.  GB were in bits and clearly not going to do a fast time, not enough for a bronze ride off at any rate.  No doubt some flowery wording in the UCI rules allows for some commissaire flexibility when making a decision.

I think in the end the decisions were fair, but very messy.

sean1 wrote:

GB was caught by Denmark so were effectively the slowest of all the teams so went into the 7th/8th ride off.

Technically the crash with Denmark happened after the race was complete as Denmark had caught GB.

so in a competition with an absolute runaway favourite, it's better to come 5th on qualifying than 4th? to avoid the team that will catch any of the others and relegate their heat opponent to 7/8 (shouldn't happen in the olympics but could happen at lower levels)

surely the system that says qualifying then 1v4, 2v3 is essentially semi finals, and loser of 1v4 should race loser of 2v3 as they have already proved themselves ahead of 5,6,7 and 8 in qualifying. I don't even understand why they need a 5/6 and 7/8 race, once the medals are decided, qualifying times can be used to determine lower positions

Thanks. So the word 'relegated' was in fact a misnomer.

I was glad to see the Danes losing to the famous Irish TTer Philip O'Ganna. That photo of the Dane shouting at Tanfield makes the Dane look like a right dick.

UK team's 3:45 in the 7/8 final was the fastest ride of the remaining teams who set a time.