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Precisely. It's the armadillos that are the danger. Though it looks to me as if the long painted line beyond the armadillo is also raised – maybe that's just how it appears on the photo. 

Troon wrote:

Societal life isn't always ideal, it's about reasonable compromise in exceptional cases like this (and, to some extent, the Autoglass van).

As ever, it would be interesting to see what the Dutch do in similar circumstances.

eburtthebike wrote:

As ever, it would be interesting to see what the Dutch do in similar circumstances.

Transport scaffolding on cargo bikes, of course

Have fully segregated cycle routes so that cyclists don't have to mix with cars at all?

But such cycle lanes still pass through areas where they need to carry scaffolding from their truck on the road to its destination, so what do they do ? Barrier the cycle lane and road ? Create a temporary diversion?

eburtthebike wrote:

Troon wrote:

Societal life isn't always ideal, it's about reasonable compromise in exceptional cases like this (and, to some extent, the Autoglass van).

As ever, it would be interesting to see what the Dutch do in similar circumstances.

This is specifically on roadworks but we can see that: [1] [2 with video] [3 with video] [4 lots of videos]

For an analysis of what we do in the UK instead: [5 from Cycling UK] [6 diversions in the country] [govt. guidance 2015]

chrisonatrike wrote:

eburtthebike wrote:

Troon wrote:

Societal life isn't always ideal, it's about reasonable compromise in exceptional cases like this (and, to some extent, the Autoglass van).

As ever, it would be interesting to see what the Dutch do in similar circumstances.

This is specifically on roadworks but we can see that: [1] [2 with video] [3 with video] [4 lots of videos]

For an analysis of what we do in the UK instead: [5 from Cycling UK] [6 diversions in the country] [govt. guidance 2015]

Many thanks for such a comprehensive response.  None of them quite show what happens when a scaffolder needs to unload his truck on the highway in Holland though.

eburtthebike wrote:

Many thanks for such a comprehensive response.  None of them quite show what happens when a scaffolder needs to unload his truck on the highway in Holland though.

Is this some kind of joke? "I don't know, what does a scaffolder do when he needs to unload his truck on the highway in Holland?"

I've no idea either but in the interest of answering "ah but you can't do x!" I've also found a solution to moving house there. People will no doubt accuse me of cherry-picking examples though.

chrisonatrike wrote:

eburtthebike wrote:

Many thanks for such a comprehensive response.  None of them quite show what happens when a scaffolder needs to unload his truck on the highway in Holland though.

Is this some kind of joke? "I don't know, what does a scaffolder do when he needs to unload his truck on the highway in Holland?"

I've no idea either but in the interest of answering "ah but you can't do x!" I've also found a solution to moving house there. People will no doubt accuse me of cherry-picking examples though.

No, not any kind of joke, and I can't work out why you might think it was.  As I said, thank you for the fulsome response, but the question remains; what happens in Holland when a scaffolder needs to load/unload? 

Excellent video of moving in Amsterdam, at least the first five minutes that I watched anyway, but again, nothing to do with the case in point, and I've never seen a case where moving required scaffolding.

eburtthebike wrote:

No, not any kind of joke, and I can't work out why you might think it was.

Er, I don't think chrisonatrike was genuinely asking if you were making a joke. Rather, the comment was a joke in itself, as in "This sounds like the set-up for a joke...".

As mdavidford said - I still forget that writing doesn't do "tone" sometimes.

And no-one liked the cherry-picker pun.

And that's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

They got me too! By the end the suspense was killing me.

chrisonatrike wrote:

And no-one liked the cherry-picker pun.

I feel your pain - there's no love for my slippers and crocs joke either.

Please look up the meaning of 'fulsome'.

"The correct meaning today is held to be ‘excessively complimentary or flattering’. However, the word is still often used in its original sense of ‘abundant’" https://www.lexico.com/definition/fulsome?locale=en

I think there might be a bit of 'divided by a common language' here. Looking at various different sources, it seems like in the US it has now transitioned to solely meaning 'excessive', while in the UK it's used in both that sense and that of 'complete'.

My issue with that though is I doubt they,like 99.9% of motorists who stop/park in cycle lanes, remotely considered the cycle lane in what they were doing,its just abit of road.

I had to have a rant at an Audi driver (shocked I was) yesterday who had deliberately driven into the cycle lane nearly up to the kerb in a queue of traffic to block it, waste of my time maybe, he looked about ready to explode in high blood pressure, clearly a driver who spends alot of their time in rage mode, and I dont care if that made public opinion of 'us' as some unhinged ranty cyclists complaining about a totally minor thing, I was making a point, stop deliberately blocking the cycle lanes.

Troon wrote:

[...] Societal life isn't always ideal, it's about reasonable compromise in exceptional cases like this [...]. If we as a cycling community start demonising every little thing like this, it won't help improve public opinion of "us", and dilutes the voices highlighting real problems of casual parking of public cars.

But is this an "exceptional case"? It is currently the default for the following to put stuff in the bike lane / on the pavement:

• Road maintenace - any signage plus often general storage.
• Utility companies since utilities are very commonly routed along the sides of the road under the footway / any cyle provision.
• Tradesmen's vehicles.

In addition the following more "temporary" obstructions are there too:

• Shops loading - normally regardless of signs (commercial necessity, don'tchaknow)
• Taxis
• Parcel and food delivery vehicles
• People "justing" (thanks) eg. "I'm just popping in to the post office".

I agree that you've got to pick your battles. Cycling is - very marginally - on the radar now which is a development. Unfortunately not always for positive reasons. Provision other than for vehicles is currently both insufficient in quantity and substandard in quality. If you don't at least point out the latter the authorities won't ever know. But raise either too frequently and the reaction quickly becomes "entitled", "unrealistic" or "you can't be a special case - we've all got to share the space". But "sharing" ends up being "mostly for motor vehicles" and everyone else share what's left. Footways and cycle tracks are motor vehicle infrastructure - if the vehicles weren't there they wouldn't be needed!

it's not exceptional in this spot sadly. There are vans parked there at least once a week - and that's only when I'm passing which is max 2-3 times a week as I still mostly work from home!

Sadly this is just the latest in a long line of vehicles parked in the same spot on Green Lanes, North London.  There are a grand total of two wands "protecting" the cycle lane. You can't see the second of these because the truck is parked on it, and the first is well behind where I took the photo. I would say that most of the time, this isn't a cycle lane at all.

I think scaffolders and builders where they have to move a lot of heavy equipment should be allowed some latitude with blocking cycle lanes as they don't particularly have a choice as to which location they pick and it's often generally safer for them to be as close to the site as possible as otherwise they create a hazard with scaffolding poles, ladders etc. if they had to carry them any distance.

What is far more annoying is general traffic just choosing to park on a cycle lane rather than walking a bit further.