“I gave a warning toot”: Confused driver can’t understand why cyclist “hurled abuse”; Giro stage or BMX race? (+ Ewan exits); Prosecco-popping alternative; The cycle lane impossible dream; Bikes meet bouldering; Positive policing + more on the live blog

76 thoughts on ““I gave a warning toot”: Confused driver can’t understand why cyclist “hurled abuse”; Giro stage or BMX race? (+ Ewan exits); Prosecco-popping alternative; The cycle lane impossible dream; Bikes meet bouldering; Positive policing + more on the live blog”

1. Why Do So Many News Articles

   Why Do So Many News Articles About Crashes Feel Like They Were Written by a Car?

   https://slate.com/business/2022/05/media-car-crashes-washington-post-pedestrians.html

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   • Well with fuel prices going
     Well with fuel prices going the way they are, that premium unleaded doesnt pay for itself you know & got to feed the family of little Autobots somehow now the movies have ended, after all it’s only Bumblebee & Optimus who get the big appearance bucks for car insurance ads 😉

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     • Those are really bad adverts.

       Those are really bad adverts.

       The Optimus one is even worse than the bumblebee one should have finished after the first, much like the continuing Richard e grant argus series.

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2. I appreciate the difference
   I appreciate the difference in scale, but I’d imagine a similar scenario plays out between cyclists and pedestrians when the cyclist uses their bell right behind the pedestrian, or yells out “on your right!”

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   • It’s the difference in scale

     It’s the difference in scale that makes the difference.

     This isn’t about cyclists racing past pedestrians on a shared path – that would be like a close pass from a driver, which isn’t described here.

     A bell is not like being honked at.

     The cyclist knew the car was there, but the aggression of the horn appears to be his trigger. A bell is just not aggressive.  Calling out is not aggressive.  The equivalence you’re describing is associated with passing the pedestrians.

     There is also another factor.  While it is inconceivable that the cyclist was unaware of the car behind, it is not uncommon to encounter single, or groups of, pedestrians oblivious to their surroundings.  Regardless of their place in the hierarchy, they retain a responsibility (as all road users do) to be aware of their surroundings and others using the road.  In most instances, even a cyclist racing past should not come as a surprise. So a call out or a bell should not make them jump in the same way an unnecessary honk might.

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   • Sriracha wrote:

     I appreciate the difference in scale, but I’d imagine a similar scenario plays out between cyclists and pedestrians when the cyclist uses their bell right behind the pedestrian, or yells out “on your right!”

     — Sriracha

     Exactly my thoughts.

     I have certainly had more abuse using a bell than just shouting ‘excuse me’. 

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     • Yeah, I’ve got to say that in

       Yeah, I’ve got to say that in my experience peds don’t tend to react great to bells. When I encounter a ped in the segregated bike lane and give a couple of rings from the bell (from miles back) it seems to be 50/50 on them moving out of the way of just giving be abuse. Calling out “excuse me”/”on your left” seems to be recieved better, but you have to be closer to do it.

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   • Yep, I wouldn’t yell ‘on your

     Yep, I wouldn’t yell ‘on your right’ at a pedestrian. I’ve only ever deployed that on other riders during a cycling event.

     There’s a reason trams have bells and horns. Ashley Neal is not the only one confused about this, the blackbeltbarrister had a bit of an unconvincing rant about it too… https://youtu.be/cW_cSfOqmn4

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     • HoarseMann wrote:

       Yep, I wouldn’t yell ‘on your right’ at a pedestrian. I’ve only ever deployed that on other riders during a cycling event.

       — HoarseMann

       I hate it when people shout that, whether I’m on a bike or on foot. By the time I’ve worked out which side that actually is (and then that that means I need to go the opposite way) it’s already too late, and then I get the evils for not having responded the way they wanted me to.

       

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       • mdavidford wrote:

         Yep, I wouldn’t yell ‘on your right’ at a pedestrian. I’ve only ever deployed that on other riders during a cycling event.

         — mdavidford

         I hate it when people shout that, whether I’m on a bike or on foot. By the time I’ve worked out which side that actually is (and then that that means I need to go the opposite way) it’s already too late, and then I get the evils for not having responded the way they wanted me to.

         

         — HoarseMann

         I’m old fashioned, I use the full sentence – “Excuse me, I’m coming past on your right!”

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       • I’d never alter the direction
         I’d never alter the direction I was moving in, in response to a shout of ‘on yer right’. I simply hold my line, not do anything unpredictable like slow,stop,speed up and just not go right leaving a nice big gap there till they had passed.

         Any look back they do is just to check where you are when they pull back across, plus probably to make sure the elastic has snapped enough so you arent drafting their wheel too.

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         • That might be how it’s

           That might be how it’s supposed to work, but it rarely seems to be that way in practice. It usually seems to be on busier shared paths / cycle tracks, and means they want me to move over so they can squeeze through a gap that’s currently too small.

           Besides which, if there’s already space to pass, and you don’t need me to react in any way, why bother to start with? And if you really feel you have to say something, why not just ‘passing’, which conveys what you’re trying to communicate without confusing me with irrelevant puzzling over which side is in question?

         • True on busier paths, not
           True on busier paths, not that I encounter many of them, busy or paths for that matter, they might be trying to make the space, I still wouldnt move 🙂

           As to why they do it when the gaps already there, its about confidence in what they think you are going to do next. I’d always give a teen deliberately wobbling round on a bike far more space to pass then say a fellow roadie simply because I’ve more trust in the latters bike handling not to suddenly veer into my path.

           I dont call out though,or use a bell, I’ve a nice loudish freewheel instead if I need to make my presence known, but ever since a pedestrian on a dedicated cycle path I was on,which ws separated by an ankle busting high fence from the adjacent completely empty footpath I’ve no idea why she was walking on the cycle lane bit at all as it was covered in leaf mulch too whilst the footpath had been cleared (guess where half the leaves came from), actually reacted to my ringing bell just to let them know I was there by then stepping completely into my path and to avoid a head on collision, remember the fence so I couldnt just veer away, I had to yank the brakes so hard, lifted the back wheel which considering it had about 7kg of weight with the panniers and what I was carrying was some feat, and stripped the brake cables out of their mounts.

           Why did you step in front of me? I panicked, ok well dont do that next time please. Ever since then I just pick the gap and be past before they notice.

     • HoarseMann wrote:

       Yep, I wouldn’t yell ‘on your right’ at a pedestrian. I’ve only ever deployed that on other riders during a cycling event.

       There’s a reason trams have bells and horns. Ashley Neal is not the only one confused about this, the blackbeltbarrister had a bit of an unconvincing rant about it too… https://youtu.be/cW_cSfOqmn4

       — HoarseMann

       This morning, approaching a runner from behind on a narrow shared-use path:

       “Excuse me”

       “Excuse me”

       “Excuuuuuse me!”

       “EXCUUUSE MEEE!!!”

       ping-ping-ping

       (runner lifts earbud from his ear and moves over to one side)

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     • +1 The dog normally gets it

       +1 The dog normally gets it but the owner…

       You’ll always piss someone off.  I’ll always slacken off the speed a bit but I tend to not make any noise if I can pass safely.  Constant ringing – same as lots of horns – is irritating and self-defeating.  Silent passing only applies if I can see them from some distance away, there is lots of space and the pedestrian’s holding their line.  Otherwise I ring a fair distance away, watch for a reaction and if there’s time repeat.  If I’ve closed right up to them I speak to them – a bell’s rude.  And at that point I’ve slowed to walking pace anyway because there’s clearly not lots of space to pass.

       After all that I’ve still had some angry man chase me down a path because his partner was startled even though I’d passed wide and just above walking pace.  I was delighted to fill in as his banter and running coach until he realised his body shape was optimised for power but not endurance…

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       • I’m struggling to see why the

         I’m struggling to see why the driver needed to use their horn to pass a cyclist if they were fully into the other lane.  It just makes no sense unless it was an attempt to intimidate the cyclist.

         One of my successful prosecutions involved a car driver making aggressive use of the horn.  Cycling on narrow lane, they tooted when they were a good distance behind which I had no issue with, but before I got to a place where I could pull in to let them past they were behind me repeatedly blasting their horn.  After the first toot I needed to cycle maybe 200m before I got to a point where they could pass, the video showed from the first toot it took me 22 seconds to reach a point where it was safe to pull in.  To cap it all off as they drove by me the wound their window down shouting obscenties at me.

         They did however learn an important lesson…. when you are driving a car which has neither an MOT nor VED it’s best to not draw attention to yourself.  They were prosecuted for careless driving and the MOT/VED failures and the car was seized and I’m guessing destroyed because shortly after submission of the video it stopped showing up on the MOT check.

         On the subject of passing pedestrians on shared use paths.  I agree with you chris, that in general where possible I try to pass slow and wide without announcing my presence.  Where I need to I will generally say excuse me on the approach to the pedestrians after reducing my speed, making sure they have sufficient time to respond and if they don’t say it again more loudly.  In general that works but occasionally they will simply not respond so I end up cycling round them on the verge.

         I did however have an entertaining incident over the weekend.  Cycling on a shared use path, with a large group of silver surfer pedestrians walking towards me.  I said excuse me and slowed down which despite them walking towards me was soundly ignored.  I had to stop at the edge of the path because the verge was not suitable to ride on…. and while stopped one of the group walks into my stationary bike….. then tells me to look where I am going…….

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   • I think there can be some

     I think there can be some comparison to be made between the attitude of some drivers and cyclists when they do this; impatience, not thinking about the other road users, mgif etc, basically prioritising their unimpeded progress over anything else.

     However as you say the difference in scale is all important and the effect on the ‘victim’ is very different in my experience. As a keen walker and non-cyclist for most of my life, cyclists ringing bells just behind me on shared paths happened occasionally and could be unpleasant but fell into the category of rudeness. I never felt scared or particularly intimidated. It was usually the lack of a thank you afterwards that would really get my goat.*

     As a neophyte cyclist however I have already had many incidents when I’ve been cycling near the speed limit only to have a car drive right up behind me, rev its engine and beep loudly. It can be really really intimidating, surprising and shook me up so much once I exploded into a tirade of bad language and was ready for a showdown with the driver. I still haven’t worked out how best to deal with these kinds of behaviour on the road and it really is one of the big barriers preventing me from cycling more often and from recommending cycling to others.

     *The approach I take as a cyclist now and what I liked as a pedestrian is for the cyclist to slow down to walking pace at which point a simple greeting or ‘excuse me’ does the trick followed by a ‘thank you’ as you go past. Edit- as others have pointed out, shouting ‘on your right’ to pedestrians is especially confusing and annoying.

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     • .

       .

       Good, balanced response.

       .

       Take care – will not go down well on here.

       .

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   • Can’t win this one.
     Can’t win this one.

     Go past without the bell and they demand you use it. Use the bell and they jump in shock, and do something stupid like cross the path to “get out of the way”.

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     • If some kind of general

       If some kind of general solution to this was available.  Maybe an engineering one…?  No, obviously not possible in the UK. [1] [2] [but how will they cross the cycle path?] [more academic paper] [but what about the countryside?]

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     • I find it surprising how some

       I find it surprising how some people hear a single-ding bell from quite a distance away. I use mine early enough that I will have allowed them time to react and still be able to ring it 3 times before actually meeting them.  Sometimes, I’m sure they don’t realise theyve heard it, but it registers subconsciously and they look.

       Always best to give advance warning, repeat and then, “excuse me, can I pass on your [right]” – as a question, because, really I am overtaking them on a road.

       It doesn’t negate their [Highway Code] duty to make themselves aware of me, but I am ruling out the argument that I did not give them fair warning.

       The fact remains that neither a cycle bell nor a moderated voice is aggressive in the way a car horn is. I miss older cars in that the horn used to have a more nuanced trigger, a little dab of the button could be more subtle and amenable; now they seem to be all or nothing.

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       • GMBasix wrote:

         The fact remains that neither a cycle bell nor a moderated voice is aggressive in the way a car horn is. I miss older cars in that the horn used to have a more nuanced trigger, a little dab of the button could be more subtle and amenable; now they seem to be all or nothing.

         — GMBasix

         Well, the only official use is to alert someone to your presence to avoid a collision, so they need to be loud and aggressive. The problem is drivers using them to try to communicate something different.

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         • hawkinspeter wrote:

           The fact remains that neither a cycle bell nor a moderated voice is aggressive in the way a car horn is. I miss older cars in that the horn used to have a more nuanced trigger, a little dab of the button could be more subtle and amenable; now they seem to be all or nothing.

           — hawkinspeter

           Well, the only official use is to alert someone to your presence to avoid a collision, so they need to be loud and aggressive. The problem is drivers using them to try to communicate something different.

           — GMBasix

           That is, of course, true. Old collective habits die hard.

     • P3t3 wrote:

       Can’t win this one.

       Go past without the bell and they demand you use it. Use the bell and they jump in shock, and do something stupid like cross the path to “get out of the way”.

       — P3t3

       I don’t find it so difficult. I use my bell, or a loud “hello”, but from far enough back as not to startle. With a little practice you get the balance between close enough to be heard (most of the time) yet not so close as to make them jump out of their skin. Honestly, I find most folk are perfectly pleasant.

       If you find people always reacting like startled deer, reason says they are not getting enough warning of your approach. Expect them to be a bit crotchety then.

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3. You’re not adding anything

   You’re not adding anything valuable by sounding the horn when passing a cyclist, you’re just asking for aggro and risking a crash.

   This is the issue I had with that Ashley Neal video a few weeks back, and it boils down to two points:

   1. “Misuse” of the horn is so prevelant that it’s sort of evolved to become the default use. 99% of the time, horn use isn’t the polite considerate warning that the HC says it is, it’s generally “fuck you” or “get the fuck out of my way”. So now, that’s how almost everyone interprets a horn blast. It’s the same with flashing the headlights – that should be a warning too (kind of like the visual equivalent of the horn), but now it just means “off you go then mate”. I’ve seen crashes caused by the correct use of flashing headlights.
   2. As cars have become quieter and more insulated inside, horns have had to get louder and more “piercing” in tone to accomodate. If you’re not in a car, a close-up horn blast is loud as hell and if you’re not expecting it will scare the crap out of you. This can 100% cause a cyclist to crash.

   Ashley would not accept either point.

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   • Ashley’s got the horn for

     Ashley’s got the horn for making loud noises.

     https://road.cc/content/news/ashley-neal-divides-opinion-use-horn-290765

     I recall something else from him about issues passing cyclists.  I put that down to hypercorrecting for the new highway code wording.  However even though I’ve not watched much of his output I still think many drivers could improve by watching him.  Given the acceptable “standard of a careful competent driver” in real life.

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     • The two things I remember

       The two things I remember were him saying regarding the HC update were that the cyclists two-abreast should have gone single-file even though he had an entire empty lane to move into (because he thought that he’d technically be passing them with less than 1.5m). The other one was that every time you drove past cyclists two-abreast coming the other way, he’s under the impression that you’d be breaking the law (for the same reason). As you say, hypercorrecting for the updates.

       I generally think his videos are good, but he’s not great at seeing things from the perspective of another type of road user, and he doesn’t like to admit when he’s wrong.

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       • BalladOfStruth wrote:

         I generally think his videos are good, but he’s not great at seeing things from the perspective of another type of road user,

         — BalladOfStruth

         Driving

         and he doesn’t like to admit when he’s wrong.

         — BalladOfStruth

         Instructor.

         

         (I’m aware there are other driving instructors available and some no doubt excellent.)

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         • Yeah. I think he means well,

           Yeah. I think he means well, but the danger with him is that he releases videos advising cyclists too, and some of his advice is more than a little dubious. There was one a few weeks ago where he priased a cyclist riding in the door-zone, and when that was pointed out, he just would not accept it was an issue because the cyclist was “riding slow enough to react” – we all know that you can be doored at 1mph if the door opens as you get to it.

         • I almost got doored as a ped

           I almost got doored as a ped when on the pavement. Just got my left arm up in time to grab the door edge.

           Words were exchanged but the driver did not feel he had done anything wrong.

         • I’ve been doored as a ped on

           I’ve been doored as a ped on the pavement a few times actually. It’s probably the reason I instinctively ride miles away from parked cars without ever having being told to.

4. .

   .

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5. I think part of the issue

   I think part of the issue here is we are all used to drivers being aggressive to us.  I have had a few that seem to be aware we are vulnerable recently and being, if anything, overly courteous.  I think we might need to accept there are some drivers out there who mean well, even if they are a bit misguided.

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   • tigersnapper wrote:

     I think part of the issue here is we are all used to drivers being aggressive to us. 

     — tigersnapper

     And other drivers, to be fair. I’ve had a driving… lichenze for fourteen years now and been a cyclist on-and-off for 20. I don’t think I’ve ever seen (heard?) the horn used as advised in the HC.

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     • HORN!

       HORN!

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   • tigersnapper wrote:

     I think part of the issue here is we are all used to drivers being aggressive to us.  I have had a few that seem to be aware we are vulnerable recently and being, if anything, overly courteous.  I think we might need to accept there are some drivers out there who mean well, even if they are a bit misguided.

     — tigersnapper

     The problem with car horns is that they have to be very loud to be heard above traffic noise by people inside metal boxes and this makes them quite startling if used behind you when you’re cycling. Also, the main (only) purpose of a horn is to warn another road user that you are there (e.g. if a vehicle is reversing towards your vehicle having not seen you), so there is no point using a horn if you are following a cyclist unless they are about to turn across your path.

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   • Blimey, you lot are fickle

     Blimey, you lot are fickle this morning .

     BallardOfStruth – I didn’t mean all drivers, honest.  I’ve always believed it’s only a minority that are abusive.

     Hawkinspeter – I’m not defending his use of the horn, just the intention, hence ‘misguided’.

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     • tigersnapper wrote:

       BallardOfStruth – I didn’t mean all drivers, honest.  I’ve always believed it’s only a minority that are abusive.

       — tigersnapper

       Sorry, I meant that drivers are aggressive to other drivers as well as us. My point is that misuse of the horn is now the default. Almost nobody uses the horn to say “excuse me guys, just letting you know I’m here”, almost everybody uses the horn to say “what are you doing, you prick!?”. So when most people hear the horn, on a bike or in a car, they’re likely to interpret the latter meaning.

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       • True and, as you’ve said

         True and, as you’ve said elsewhere, the use of flashing headlights.  And in fairness I’m not defending the guy in this instance (don’t know the circumstances fully) just giving him the benefit of the doubt ‘cos I’m in a good mood.

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6. https://www.reddit.com/r

   https://www.reddit.com/r/londoncycling/comments/usp74c/cyclists_beware_we_were_assaulted_on_the/

   Drawing pins thrown at cyclists on the Ride London route through Epping Forest. 

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7. Like the apocryphal tree
   Like the apocryphal tree falling in an uninhabited forest. If a car driver sounds their horn on an empty stretch of road does it make a noise?

   Surely it’s all in the perception. If we only acknowledge use of the horn as the intended HC guidance as a warning of presence, then it’s easier not to react at the time. If it also co-incides with aggressive driving, and you are video equipped, reacting with abuse is just another reason for those supposedly responsible for policing road users to ignore your complaint.

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   • Mungecrundle wrote:

     Surely it’s all in the perception. If we only acknowledge use of the horn as the intended HC guidance as a warning of presence, then it’s easier not to react at the time.

     — Mungecrundle

     The problem is horns are very loud and intrinsically unpleasant and agressive. Imagine walking up behind a person from a car free culture and who had never heard a car horn before in their life and sounding it just behind their back. My guess is that they’d react with surprise, fear and then aggression.

     *On the other hand I do remember when I spent some time in countries (Indonesia or Sri Lanka for example) where all vehicles used their horns constantly to indicate their presence and to try and push their way through traffic, I quickly became desensitized to their use and the tooting started sounding much less personal and more just a reflection of the busy energy of local life. However that kind of cultural shift is huge and I doubt it’s something we would welcome in the UK as it makes for a really raucous urban environment. I also seem to remember that might is right was very much the dominant attitude on the roads in those countries so I doubt the general road culture there would suit cyclists much.

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     • mallardz wrote:

       *On the other hand I do remember when I spent some time in countries (Indonesia or Sri Lanka for example) where all vehicles used their horns constantly to indicate their presence and to try and push their way through traffic, I quickly became desensitized to their use and the tooting started sounding much less personal and more just a reflection of the busy energy of local life. However that kind of cultural shift is huge and I doubt it’s something we would welcome in the UK as it makes for a really raucous urban environment. I also seem to remember that might is right was very much the dominant attitude on the roads in those countries so I doubt the general road culture there would suit cyclists much.

       — mallardz

       Good cultural notes.  And it’s always worth widening our perspective beyond our western (european) focus.  I recall similar “negotiation” on urban roads in Thailand.  It really is chaos but it “works” because speeds are very low in the most crowded areas.  Plus even locals are a bit wary of elephants!

       However although we might get some useful observations from such environments (very low speed / negotiation / self-organised flow) I think we should be extremely careful about trying to generalise – much less import from such countries.  They are very different in lots of ways.  I think most have horrific road casualty statistics – where they’re even measured.  As you say differences in size / vulnerability / maneouvering characteristics mean that these – like western “shared space” environments – quickly degenerate into “might is right” and the rule of the large (motor) vehicle.

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       • chrisonatrike wrote:

         Good cultural notes.  And it’s always worth widening our perspective beyond our western (european) focus.  I recall similar “negotiation” on urban roads in Thailand.  It really is chaos but it “works” because speeds are very low in the most crowded areas.  Plus even locals are a bit wary of elephants!

         However although we might get some useful observations from such environments (very low speed / negotiation / self-organised flow) I think we should be extremely careful about trying to generalise – much less import from such countries.  They are very different in lots of ways.  I think most have horrific road casualty statistics – where they’re even measured.  As you say differences in size / vulnerability / maneouvering characteristics mean that these – like western “shared space” environments – quickly degenerate into “might is right” and the rule of the large (motor) vehicle.

         — chrisonatrike

         I don’t think we should be looking to copy any road safety tips from Thailand – they’re the worst country for road deaths per population, outside of Africa.

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   • Mungecrundle wrote:

     If we only acknowledge use of the horn as the intended HC guidance as a warning of presence, then it’s easier not to react at the time.

     — Mungecrundle

     But a ‘warning’ implies that you need to react, by doing (or not doing) something.

     There’s no reason to warn someone who is behaving in a predictable manner.

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   • Cars need an alternative

     Cars need an alternative ‘horn’ for this kind of warning that just makes the sound of a polite cough

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     • I think that is called tyre

       I think that is called tyre road noise.

       That sort of toot is nothing more than get out of my way.

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     • They fitted one to the Ineos
       They fitted one to the Ineos Grenadier, has a little cyclist logo and everything, now on sale if you’re interested, we all agreed it was a terrible idea, the special horn not just the car 😉

       unless it warbled like a classic DS team car horn did

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     • henryb wrote:

       Cars need an alternative ‘horn’ for this kind of warning that just makes the sound of a polite cough

       — henryb

       That’s exactly what my MINI does when I let off the loud pedal. Papapap. It’s also equivalent to when I stop pedalling when approaching pedestrians on a shared path so they hear my freewheel first.

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       • andystow wrote:

         That’s exactly what my MINI does when I let off the loud pedal.

         — andystow

         Are you sure you’re not driving a piano?

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         • mdavidford wrote:

           That’s exactly what my MINI does when I let off the loud pedal.

           — mdavidford

           Are you sure you’re not driving a piano?

           — andystow

           The size and weight are similar, but I never learned to play the piano, so I doubt it.

   • The problem is not just the

     The problem is not just the loudness. I’m guessing that if this guy was in central London, he wouldn’t give a “toot” at every cyclist he wasn’t certain knew of his presence, because he’d be doing it every couple of seconds.

     On a road with few cyclists, say my nine mile morning commute where I seldom see another cyclist, each driver would encounter and “toot” at exactly one cyclist: me. I, on the other hand, would be honked at hundreds of times if everyone did that. And I would eventually start throwing things, or mount a very loud rear-facing horn to my bicycle.

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8. our article around the debate

   our article around the debate on that video is at 170 comments and counting

   — Dan

   Erm – might need some remedial counting lessons.

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   • John Stevenson has been

     John Stevenson has been deleting posts again !

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9. On the warning toot, I think

   On the warning toot, I think a lot of drivers are unaware of just how insanely loud cars are. Anyone who doesn’t suffer from significant hearing loss and who is without noise cancelling earphones knows you are coming from behind them, how far you are and when you start to overtake and how agressively you are doing so by the sound alone, we don’t need to look round, we don’t need you to toot. In the words of “Not Just Bikes” on youtube, Cities aren’t loud, cars are loud. 

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10. Re The bike lane impossible

    Re The bike lane impossible dream…bicycle beer delivery!! Don’ think I’ve even seen bakfiets bier bezorgen here in the Netherlands. I’ll have to visit of lot of cafes to find out, in the name of research of course.

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11. Richard Livings wrote:

    Obviously the sensible option is to yell BOOOOOOOOOOOOO in their ear from behind and then complain they look annoyed and didn’t even have the manners to say thanks for you taking the time to give them the warning.

    — Richard Livings

    Someone’s been watching Weebl’s Stuff again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8gSKjX-Lig

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12. Whenever I think about horns,

    Whenever I think about horns, I remember this absolute gem, a cyclist with an air-horn…  For what its worth, an air-horn is a similar volume to a car horn.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sFKRFLsraU

    For the record, the last bloke next to the bus is how cyclists feel when they are on a road minding their own business and a driver gives a warning horn for no apparent reason.

     

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13. BMW driver caught at 119mph

    BMW driver caught at 119mph who said he’s too poor to afford taxis is told ‘get a bike’

    https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/19/bmw-driver-cant-afford-taxis-after-caught-speeding-at-119mph-16671067/

    A camera had picked him up more than 50mph over the speed limit on the M58 near Skelmersdale in Lancashire.

    (He) made a plea of ‘exceptional hardship’ to keep his luxury wheels.

    The company boss said he was on benefits, and claimed he would not be able to afford taxis to the gym or to visit his family.

    Prosecutor Matt Routly suggested selling his £37,000 car could be a simple solution.

    Mr Routly said: ‘You still have that BMW. You could sell that and that would raise quite a lot of funds?

    ‘It could pay for quite a lot of taxis and buy you a bicycle.

    ‘That’s very often the price people have to pay when they speed all the time.’

    When asked why he could not simply sell his car he replied: ‘A driving ban would run out after six months and then I would not have a car.’

    His gym is located ‘in the middle of nowhere on an industrial estate’ he added.

    A combination of trains and taxis would be needed both to get to the gym and to visit his nine-year-old daughter, Crawford claimed.

    But magistrates nevertheless refused the application, and banned Crawford from driving for six months, fined him £120 and made him pay £136 in costs and victim surcharge.

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    • More of this please.

      More of this please.

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    • If he sells his car and buys

      If he sells his car and buys a bike, he might be able to cancel his gym membership as well – quids in!

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    • Obviously the person has

      Obviously the person has never heard of a second hand car.  He could easily sell his £37k motor, by a nice mid to high end bike for £3-4K, pay for all of his taxi’s and rail fares for 6 months, and still have enough to buy himself a £15k second hand car.

      Glad the judge told him to do one

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    • “The company boss said he was

      “The company boss said he was on benefits” & 37k Car & member of a gym

      something not right inall of that !

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      • #squeezedmiddle (after sit

        #squeezedmiddle (after sit-ups) #hardworkingfamilies #waronthemotorist

        It’s the cost of living high on the hog crisis.

        Also don’t forget the guy with the house in central London a month or so back who also somehow couldn’t get around without the expensive motor or afford any other form of transport.  Oystercards must be pretty extortionate now.  Maybe that’s why I saw the Queen using one the other day?

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      • He gets some diability

        He gets some diability benefit due to a serious injury, so I guess it is not means tested.

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    • He should hit up Road.cc for

      He should hit up Road.cc for some budget cycling recommendations:

      https://road.cc/content/feature/roadcc-superbike-year-202021-279533

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14. Is it only me that finds

    Is it only me that finds something distasteful in the idea of starting a grand tour with the intent of pulling out halfway through?

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    • No

      No

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    • It absolutely isn’t just you,

      It absolutely isn’t just you, it’s a despicable practice in my opinion which insults the race and the efforts of those sprinters like Cavendish who do everything they can to finish the race. If I had my way anyone not finishing a race would forfeit all the world ranking points gained for stage wins (if they get them? Not sure) and all prize money unless they could offer a genuine reason for withdrawal certified by an independent physician. In fact I’d go further and say anyone who doesn’t finish (without the aforementioned genuine excuse) loses any stage wins and instead they would be awarded to the highest-placed finisher on each stage who actually finished the race.

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      • didnt Cav pull out of his

        didnt Cav pull out of his first TdF ?

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        • Awavey wrote:

          didnt Cav pull out of his first TdF ?

          — Awavey

          He did, but he abandoned because he was beat up after crashing on stages one and two and found he just couldn’t cope with the physical demands, he didn’t go in with the plan to abandon from the start – very different. His own description at the time is here, if you’re interested: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jul/16/cycling.tourdefrance2

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          • 2007…ok then I mean didnt

            2007…ok then I meant didnt Cav pull out of his 2nd TdF ? 🙂

            edit: it was his first stage win year, that probably got me mixed up

          • Awavey wrote:

            2007…ok then I meant didnt Cav pull out of his 2nd TdF ? 🙂

            edit: it was his first stage win year, that probably got me mixed up

            — Awavey

            Fair point yes, to concentrate on the Olympics (which backfired rather as he got nothing at the Olympics and he was on fire at the Tour with four stages, if he’d stayed and taken one of the two flat stages left he’d now have beaten Merckx’s record!), though as far as I can recall that’s the only time he’s done it unlike serial one-week-only pothunters like McEwen and Cipollini.

    • At this point I would

      At this point I would normally post a picture of a naked and oiled Mario Cipollini, rider of the magnificent saeco train, who would ride the first week of the Tour, when it was flat and leave before a slight hill.

      But I’m on a tablet and it is much more difficult to post said picture of the maned shiny Adonis…

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      • The BikeSnob has him covered

        The BikeSnob has him covered (along with being pals with Lance…) so you don’t have to.

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15. Perhaps the user of the horn

    Perhaps the user of the horn misinterpreted the friendly thank you and the cheery wave.

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