Cyclist riding no-handed while using his phone argues with driver; Brailsford warns people to expect the unexpected at Tour de France; Former Olympian urges athletes to ‘let loose’; World’s most picturesque cycling cities + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
The World's Most Picturesque cycling cities have been revealed... and Bristol makes the top 5
A new study has use Instagram data to rank the world’s best cities for a scenic bike ride and topping the list is Chiang Mai in Thailand with Amsterdam coming in second.
The UK had three cities in the top ten with Bristol coming at number 5, Cambridge at 6 and London at 10.
Mike Rees, CEO of MoneyBeach.co.uk, who sponsored the study, said: “We wanted to discover which city proves the most popular and picturesque for cyclists.”
To rank the cities, MoneyBeach analysed 350,000 city specific cycling hashtags on Instagram to discover which city has the most cyclists sharing their pictures.
The results were then weighted against city size to crown where’s best to ride.
The full list is below – are there any glaring omissions or perhaps some unusual contenders?
1. Chiang Mai, Thailand
2. Miami, United States of America
3. Paris, France
4. Beirut, Lebanon
5. Bristol, United Kingdom
6. Cambridge, United Kingdom
7. Barcelona, Spain
8. London, United Kingdom
9. Dublin, Ireland
10. Athens, Greece
11. Amsterdam, Netherlands
12. Copenhagen, Denmark
13. Bath, United Kingdom
14. Florence, Italy
15. Atlanta, United States of America
16. Seattle, United States of America
17. Taipei, Taiwan
18. Warsaw, Poland
19. Berlin, Germany
20. Oxford, United Kingdom
Argument between cyclist riding no-handed while using his phone and driver sparks safety debate
LOL at all the motorists exaggeratedly hand-wringing about me cycling care-free through a park on a sunny day, with my hands off the handlebars and my iPhone in one hand. You’re driving a massive polluting metal box through a park mate… https://t.co/fELU57sOoB
— The Department of Parks & Recreation 🦌 (@ldnparks) June 17, 2021
In the video posted by The Department of Parks & Recreation Twitter account, a heated conversation takes places between a cyclist who was riding no handed while using his phone and a driver who beeped him for apparently ‘veering into the middle of the road’…
The couple, explaining why they beeped the rider say: “You were veering towards the centre of the road you had no hands on your handlebars and you had your phone in your hand.
“Drivers aren’t allowed to have their phones in their hands are they? You’re a road user on wheels so you have to conform to the same rules.”
To which the rider replies: “No, different rules sir.”
Commenting beneath the video, people seemed pretty divided on who was in the wrong…
Leicestercyclist wrote: “Hmm I’m a cyclist that’s submitted plenty to Op Snap and I think this cyclist is being unnecessarily challenging . WE know riding no handed is fine but it can spook a nervous driver and crucially, give them a credible get out for “over reacting” to the rider.”
Another user Urbane Cyclist, had a different opinion: “Riding with no hands is really quite easy.
“The element of risk really depends on the circumstances, e.g., it might not be a good idea if racing down a windy hill or crossing tram lines, but in a park it should be fine. And its not illegal!”
Ultra Endurance cyclist aims to break world record for longest distance cycled in 7 days
James Golding previously broke the Guinness World 7 Day Record in 2017 with 2,842.4km before it was eventually beaten.
The challenge simply requires riders to cycle as far as they possibly can over a seven day period.
James was given a 5 per cent chance of survival in 2008 after being diagnosed with cancer. After having to learn to walk again as part of his recovery he is now training to take part in the Race Across America in 2022.
As part of his prep for the brutal endurance race, he is aiming to ride more than 3,505km over 7 days in the UK starting on 20th June.
James will attempt the challenge on the roads he grew up on in Warwickshire and anyone wishing to support him can join him by riding with on the RGT cycling platform.
People can cycle along with an avatar representing James, which will be going at the speed required to break the record when riding for 18 hours per day – an average speed of around 18mph. To find out more click here.
New week long women's Tour de France announced for next year
Zwift will be sponsoring a week long women’s Tour de France next year on a four year partnership.
The race has been added to the Women’s World Tour and will kick off on July 24, 2022 on the Champs-Élysées. Unlike La Course by Le Tour de France – a one-day race that the Tour’s organisers have put on for women since 2014 — the new event will be a multi-stage event.
Double world champion Anna van der Breggen, who rides for SD Worx, said: “This is a huge moment for professional women’s cycling.
“The Tour de France is the most famous race in cycling and it’s long been a dream for many of us in the women’s peloton to compete in such a race. “I’m hopeful that the Tour de France Femmes avec Zwift will help us grow our sport even more by providing us with a media platform to take the excitement of women’s cycling to new audiences.”
Olympic runner takes on pro cyclist to see who is the fittest
In the video middle-distance runner Andy Baddeley, who represented Britain at the Beijing Olympics in 2008 and finished 9th in the 1,500 metres, goes up against former Wiggins Le Col rider Lawrence Carpenter in a running and cycling challenge to see if they can find out who is the most formidable athelete…
Would taller people benefit from bicycles with larger wheels?
Would taller people benefit from bicycles with larger wheels, the New Scientist asked this week?
The science magazine asked readers whether they thought the tallest among us should in fact be riding bikes with bigger wheels.
The response generally was no they should not. Aerodynamics and weight were both cited as pretty convincing reasons for riders to stick to more normal sized wheels.
Reaction to the no-handed cyclist confronting driver who beeped him
“I wish I had knocked you off, and then I could have said the idiot was on his phone riding with no hands.” Vulnerable road users have to share Richmond Park (yes, a park) with violent motorists like this. pic.twitter.com/vWFHXftRlg
— The Department of Parks & Recreation 🦌 (@ldnparks) June 17, 2021
People have reacted to the video we posted earlier showing a confrontation between a driver and a cyclist who was riding no-handed and using his phone while cycling through a park.
One road.cc user commented that the video was a bit depressing in that it reflected how often parks, meant to be relaxing places, became flash points for confrontations between motorists and cyclists.
They added: “If I was the park authorities, I’d be asking myself what changes to access I should be making that would reduce this. (In case not clear – no cars in the park.) It’s finely balanced for me, but I think we have to set the example to drivers of what we need them to do, so at least one hand on the bars, no phone calls, no selfies, or wheelies if if you’re able to pull them.”
Another commented: “Why are people even allowed to drive through a park in the first place? It’s place of recreation for people on foot or cycling, not a bypass for drivers. Need to bear in mind that people with mobility issues need to visit the park free from car traffic.”
The man who filmed the video also gave his own opinion to the public reaction.
He said “If this makes people think more carefully about when it is appropriate to sound their horn, then posting the film was worth it, even if public opinion falls against me.”
"Get out and about, jump off things, let loose" to aid performance, says Callum Skinner
When I started my career we we told and thought that lying down in your hotel room for hours was good for performance…it’s rubbish, get out and about, jump off things, let loose.
If you hurt yourself tell the physio it was definitely training related 😬 https://t.co/1cXJmN6LHc
— Callum Skinner (@CallumSkinner) June 17, 2021
Former Olympic cyclist Callum Skinner says it is ‘rubbish’ that athletes should spend their down time at races and competitions ‘lying down in your hotel room for hours’.
He makes a pretty valid point that it might be more beneficial to take a leaf out of the British & Irish Lions book, and get outside and have a bit of fun.
The Lions commented: “Absolutely Callum, high performance is about balance and knowing when to switch off but also when to go all in.”
Head of Performance Lifestyle at the English Institute of Sport, Joanna Harrison also agreed, adding: I never bought that legs up constantly crap either! Get out and do something!”
Three-year-old shows off handling skills eating and drinking on the rollers
Daisy wanted to learn to take drinks and snacks without anyone passing them to her, it tight to get a bottle off a tiny bike with the small space, getting food out of your pockets is definitely a skill 👏@Elite_cycling @gcntweet #roadcycling #3yearold pic.twitter.com/Ueaik3XkZa
— Daisy_tiny_biker (@biker_tiny) June 17, 2021
Daisy is back at it again, this time showing off her impressive skills on the rollers as she learns to get food out of her back pocket and her bottle out of the cage.
Daisy Adams made the live blog back in November when she cycled from Bristol to Bath and back again, racking up a 34-mile, six-hour ride at just three-years-old and again in February of this year when she showed what she could do on a BMX.
Unicyclist and penny farthing rider cycle South Downs way
A unicyclist and a penny farthing rider are setting out to tackle the whole of the South Downs way.
Tom Clowes will be on the unicycle with his mate Neil Laughton on the penny farthing. Together they will take on the 100 mile (160km) route which features 12,637ft (3795m) of climbing over three days.
Tom, an adventurer, who has previously climbed Mt Everest and Mt Kilimanjaro, said: “The unicycle is known as a mountain unicycle (or muni for short).
“It has a 29 inch fat 3 inch tyre. It is made by a Canadian chap called Kris Holm who was one of the pioneers of mountain unicycling.
“The ride is all to raise money for Prostate Cancer UK. My father died from this disease 16 years ago. I want to raise as much as possible by doing something that I will find incredibly hard.”
Tom added that although the route will be tricky on a unicycle, it might be even harder on a penny farthing.
He said: “The Penny Farthing is not built for off-road riding whereas the unicycle is built to be very strong. [The rider] sits much higher on his wheel and therefore the danger of falling off is greater.
“The hardest part for me will be the chafing and saddle sores… I shall be liberally applying chafing cream and I shall be wearing padded shorts of course!”
If you wish to support Tom and donate to Prostate Cancer, you can do so here.
Win free beer... by cycling!
What better news could there be on a Friday… you could win free beer and all you have to do is ride your bike. Sort of.
Small Beer Brew.co are inviting riders to plot and ride a route on Strava in the shape of one of its stubby beer bottles.
The company will then shortlist the best attempts and the winner will win a mixed case of its award winning Small Beer.
That might seem like quite a bit of work to some for what is a low alcohol beer… but I’m sure plenty of people will take on the challenge for any form of alcohol after a long week.
Cyclist lucky to survive after being pushed off bicycle by moped rider
‘It is a very busy route for #cyclists – and they should all know about this new danger’ – he told the News #Dulwich @MPSSouthwark @southwarkcycle https://t.co/mDlIsDBhw5
— Southwark News (@Southwark_News) June 16, 2021
A cyclist ‘was fortunate not to break his neck’ after someone pushed him off his bike while he was riding along a cycle path at night.
Andrew Mayers, a 59-year-old carer from Dulwich, was riding on the Greendale cycle path just after 11pm on Thursday June 10. He was travelling from Denmark Hill when a person on a moped accelerated behind him and shoved him off the path.
Speaking to Southwark News, Andrew said: “When I staggered to my feet I was covered in blood from a million cuts, but amazingly no broken bones. My front wheel was mangled into oblivion. I was extremely fortunate not to break my neck.
“This was a deliberate, planned attack. It is a very busy route for cyclists – and they should all know about this new danger.”
'Expect the unexpected' from Ineos at Tour de France, says Dave Brailsford
Announcing the Ineos Grenadiers line up at the tour, Brailsford said “We won’t win this tour by sitting in the wheels. We have the team to make it a racers’ race, take the initiative, seize every opportunity and make our opposition focus for every kilometre of every stage.
“We have changed our race philosophy this season to being more open and aggressive. Our performances have built all season and a joy of racing has infused the whole team. This more adventurous approach has led us to fearless racing and this is exactly how we will hit the Tour. We will seek out every moment in every stage where the race is on and try to exploit it. Key for us this Tour is our collective strength and camaraderie to the end.
“Expect the unexpected.”
The Ineos team at the TdF will consist of: Richard Carapaz, Jonathan Castroviejo, Tao Geoghegan Hart, Michal Kwiatkowski, Richie Porte, Luke Rowe, Geraint Thomas, Dylan van Baarle.
18 June 2021, 07:54
Shimano has used data from bikefitting.com pressure mapping to create a chamois for its Tenku bib shorts that's designed to match the race-focused Pro Stealth saddle.
Shimano uses bikefitting.com pressure mapping to create seatpad that 'perfectly matches' Pro saddle
There’s also a new customised bib short selector for advice for riders on the best shorts to choose from Shimano’s range
18 June 2021, 07:54
John talks VeloViewer, Abus locks and cassette locking tightness
John's blog: VeloViewer tile-bagging, Abus lock cleverness, lockrings & more
A few things that have floated across our editor-at-large's brain lately
18 June 2021, 07:54
Online troll who abused Labour MP over low traffic neighbourhoods sentenced
Online troll who abused Labour MP over low traffic neighbourhoods sentenced
Brian Haven claimed he had been wound up by radio talk shows – highlighting that divisive rhetoric can have real-life consequences
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Latest Comments
@Paul J Van Schip certainly seems a bit of a dick, but he's a European and multiple World Champion on the track, pretty sure you don't get there without having some talent in your legs.
Poor Vincent cannot get over the simple fact that given the choice people prefer dedicated cycling spaces, rather than pretending to be cars like vehicular cyclists.
What is the point of the fancy air sensor if it can't account for changing weather conditions?? If all you care about is a delayed approximation of aerodynamic watts in steady conditions, you don't need any special sensors for that. Just your speed on a decently flat course is enough to approximate rolling resistance and drivetrain losses. And the rest must be aero. If you assume a less aero body position at the same watts, your speed will drop while rolling resistance also drops, which means approximated aero watts goes up. And that's enough to demonstrate what you've shown in your testing protocol ("I sat upright and the number went up a little while later").
Your correction is accurate - it's almost always been "the (lack of) thought that (doesn't) count". "Massive" - less than a billion a year spent on active travel (trying to catch up / building a network across the entire country) Not massive - 6 billion every year (2026-2030) spent on road *maintenance* of existing "already built, goes everywhere, very convenient" road network for inactive travel Ultimately the reason "cycle infra" is *needed* is those unbelievably colossal amounts spent every year (and for more than a century now) on making mass motoring not just viable but apparently the "best choice" for most journeys. As the Dutch and others have shown, the majority of people *are* prepared to cycle and even mix with very light, slow local motor traffic *if* cycling is also made safe and convenient for the whole of their journey (including secure parking at both ends). (The history of the financial drivers of the current situation are a complex topic but note that while people complain about "crumbling roads" and underfunded motor infra - with some reason - by us continuing the fuel duty escalator freeze (for example) we're actually helping motorists pay *even less* for that activity / subsidising more of the cost of driving than ever.)
yes, but people will still object - which was my point.
So ' Priority of Road Users' and 1.5 metre clearance at 30mph has been been reduced to 'sharing'? NCN route 2 here in South Hams is an absolute scream with white vans, tractors and total idiots who refuse,or are totally incapable,to reverse on high Devon banked lanes ...means you have to get off and pedal back to a passing place....could be at that all day...so I don't bother...
@MaxiMinimalist Agreed. The big problem I see now is today's parents grew up being driven to their schools, and therefore, see private motor vehicles as the only viable form of transport. The vast majority of UK infant and primary schools have a catchment area that is within easy walking distance from home to school. Yet, the traffic caused by pupils being driven to/from school is astonishing. Banishing the "School Run" should be a priority for all schools.
When I was a kid (that was during the previous millenium when phones were connected to a plug in the wall), I rode my bicycle to school, music academy, sport grounds, parties even during the winter. The government didn't have to spend, correct that, didn't have to think of spending massive amounts of money to build cycling specific infrastructures. Over the past 3 or 4 decades, cars have grown bigger, taller, safer (for their drivers) and faster. Meanwhile, motorists have become abusive, aggressive, hypersensitive to people moving on two wheels, aka cyclists. Spending billions upon billions on new infrastructure won't address the crux of the matter. Sadly.
Obree had some actual talent in his legs though, in addition to his bike/aero engineering talent.
Малко като опит за доказване е излязло... Никой няма нужда от толкова голям въртящ момент и мощност на шосеен велосипед с тънки гуми, които дори трудно ще предават тази мощност върху пътя. А ако има и ограничение от 25 км/час е още по-безмислено.
78 thoughts on “Cyclist riding no-handed while using his phone argues with driver; Brailsford warns people to expect the unexpected at Tour de France; Former Olympian urges athletes to ‘let loose’; World’s most picturesque cycling cities + more on the live blog”
I’d’ve thought that Chiang
I’d’ve thought that Chiang Mai is too hot and humid for cycling, but definitely a beautiful place.
Now I don’t want to start a Bristol-Bath war, but how’s the weather down there in 13th place?
(I’m surprised at Berlin being so far down the list as it has great cycle infrastructure however it was built on a swamp)
I really don’t get that list.
I really don’t get that list. Bristol is a truly crap place to cycle around, same as Bath. Scenic, yes. Alas…Busy traffic, yes…Poor cycling infrastructure, yes….and that goes for both cities.
Copenhagen though? Blinking fantastic. Very scenic and lots to see, tolerant drivers, excellent cycle lanes and infrastructure and a population that spends a lot of time on bikes so pottering around is commonplace and enjoyable. Great summer weather too.
I’ve cycled in Taipei, which
I’ve cycled in Taipei, which also features in the top 20, and I cannot think of a place in world I’ve visited that I’d like to cycle in less.
Well maybe apart from Kaohsiung, where a green traffic light means “go” and a red traffic light means “go while sounding your horn”.
Great food, cakes and people on the upside though!
bobbinogs wrote:
The ranking was taken from the most Instagram cycling pictures relative to population, so despite the article saying it shows “where’s best to ride” it doesn’t show that at all, it just shows (using a pretty dodgy metric) where’s best to take Instagrammable photographs as you ride.
It’s not relative to
It’s not relative to population, it’s relative to area, which is a bit of weird way to go about things, although it would help to account for the fact that different countries can have radically different definitions of what a city is. It also isn’t necessarily about taking photos as you ride – only about taking photos that you then tag with cycling-related tags, which is likely to mean as many, if not more, photos of bicycles and cycling, as photos while cycling.
Well it’s the methodology
Well it’s the methodology theyve picked it’s not about how it is to ride in these cities it’s about how many photos posted to Instagram with the cities as a hashtag by cyclists. I dont doubt Bristol gets a ton of photos purely from street art that people share. Chiang Mai has 6.3million hits, Bristol cycling 5000, Bath cycling 100.
Quote:
I have never managed to successfully ride with no hands on the handlebars.
I try it from time to time when safely away from the Big Motorised Metal Boxes, but somehow always end up veering to the right and falling off…
brooksby wrote:
I also can’t cycle no handed. I’m always rather embarrassed by this.
Steve K wrote:
Handlebars? Pah! Cheating!. Not REAL cycling…. might as well stick an engine on and have done with it.
Headset may need adjusting.
Headset may need adjusting.
Maybe so but unfortunately it
Maybe so but unfortunately it’s the headset connected to my body, and I cant Worzel Gummidge up a new head
Dont be embarrassed, I cant
Dont be embarrassed, I cant do it either, nor can I pull a wheelie, in fact riding one handed can be a bit exciting sometimes trying to pull off kit because the weather changed without stopping. Some of us just like holding the handlebars to feel happy and in control.
Me neither. I have had a
Me neither. I have had a handlebar bag for so long, that I need at least one hand on the bars.
The secret is to lean back.
The secret is to lean back. That means you can’t grab the handlebars in a hurry, but it gets your balance right.
We used to do it all the time as kids in the 1960s. I don’t seem to have the bottle to do it these days, what with all the extra traffic, and older skin & bones taking longer to heal.
Used to be able to do this
Used to be able to do this for miles back in the days of quill stems and cottered cranks. Never managed it on a modern bike, I guess bearings are just too good these days.
kil0ran wrote:
I think other factors are at work here. My steel bike, quill stem but cotterless cranks, is lovely in a lot of ways but hands off it shimmies all over the place. My modern bikes are stable and I can go hands off for as long as is safe and comfortable.
Previous steel bikes (1977-88) were fine.
I think there’s a resonance on the steel bike to do with the fork geometry and flex, perhaps exacerbated by the frame being large and with a long head tube. Changing wheels makes no difference. Some day I might be bold enough to see if it improves at higher speeds.
brooksby wrote:
— brooksbyA good description of the country at the moment, but the bye election results were interesting.
I did check to see if that
I did check to see if that comment was from Nigel of the Garages.
pockstone wrote:
I’m both offended and mortified.
Doesn’t that ranking mean
Doesn’t that ranking mean only that there are a lot of Instragrammers who happen to ride bikes in Bristol, rather than Bristol being particularly popular or ‘picture-skew’ (quick Blackadder reference)?
It doesn’t even really mean
It doesn’t even really mean that – it means that a lot of Instagrammers uploaded photos with tags like ‘cycling’. Which is really just another way of saying that there are a lot of bikes in those cities.
I can tell it doesn’t mean
I can tell it doesn’t mean much real, as Atlanta, GA, USA is on the list. Other than some nice paths that aren’t really useful for transport, that is one of the worst places to cycle in the country.
On a trip to Coed Y Brenin
On a trip to Coed Y Brenin with my sons, I remember I took a phone call from my wife while cycling back from the skills area to the cafe. I had no hands on the bars and phone to my ear plus two teenages in tow. No one even took a second glance or said a thing to me. Thats the joys of MTB trail center, every body understands and is on the same hymn sheet!
Re: cycling no-handed, dreary
Re: cycling no-handed, dreary me, fancy posting that to the internet and thinking you’re morally in the right! Somehow my mind gets drawn to the article the other day about the woman who was filmed with a cargo bike against her wishes with the footage posted on the internet – this pathetic trend has to stop, the driver and his wife seemed perfectly reasonable, sensible people, why are they being dragged through the twitter gutter?
There’s no law to stop the voyeur who filmed this pathetic video jumping off a cliff, so I’d suggest perhaps he considers that for his next hobby.
I have to agree here, I have
I have to agree here, I have no issue with riding nohands and even using a phone to take photos while riding, but NOT when there are other road users around. Or small children or animals likely to cross the road.
However two wrongs don’t make a right and “I wish I’d knocked you off” can’t be defended either.
It seems a shame that a park,
It seems a shame that a park, where you go for leisure and relaxation, etc seems to be the scene of so many flash-points day after day. If I was the park authorities, I’d be asking myself what changes to access I should be making that would reduce this. (In case not clear – no cars in the park.)
It’s finely balanced for me, but I think we have to set the example to drivers of what we need them to do, so at least one hand on the bars, no phone calls, no selfies, or wheelies if if you’re able to pull them.
Nigel Garrage wrote:
This cyclist sets a terrible example, and is breaking the law despite their arguing to the contrary. Careless or Dangerous Cycling: This cyclist was not in control of their bike, was not cycling with due care or attention, and should not have argued from a position of moral superiority. Blame lies on both sides here, but the cyclist was in the wrong too.
Jenova20 wrote:
Having unicycled quite a bit in my past, I’d disagree that you’re not in control just by not having your hands on the bars. Generally, cyclists not in control of their steed are not riding upright for very long, so if you see someone cycling along and not just about to fall off, then you can infer that they are indeed in control.
Ultimately, deciding whether a cyclist was using due care and/or attention is a judgement call, so it’s debatable as to whether the cyclist was infinging any laws. Personally, I can’t see that he was endangering anyone (he could easily reach for his bars if he started to lose control), and he certainly wasn’t threatening violence.
I’m thinking that maybe we should stop the easily spooked motorists from driving in parks if they are so affronted by a cyclist that they threaten violence.
The person he got into an
The person he got into an argument with said he was on the phone, and veering towards the middle of the road. Had the police been behind him, i’ve no doubt they would have also pulled him over for his dangerous cycling.
Jenova20 wrote:
I don’t recommend cycling whilst using a phone, but I don’t see it as being a major source of danger (especially in the middle of a park which would seem to be an appropriate place for more relaxed cycling). Veering towards the middle of the road really shouldn’t be dangerous to anyone unless they’re performing an unsafe overtake.
There’s a clear difference in the levels of threat posed by an individual cycling along and an individual (or couple) in a tonne of metal that’s also belching out dangerous particulates. I know which one I’d rather see in public parks and green spaces.
hawkinspeter wrote:
And there’s a clear difference between cycling with due care and attention, in a safe manner, and not doing so. This cyclist was not doing so.
Jenova20 wrote:
You’ve made an assertion, but it’s largely down to your opinion. I would tend to agree with you if someone did that outside of a park (and I do see people doing that in Bristol), but there was no indication that the cyclist put anyone in danger or that he was not paying sufficient care or attention.
hawkinspeter wrote:
The problem there is you are making judgements about what is, and is not safe. A driver might well argue that whilst stopped in a traffic queue, there is no harm in a quick look at facebook, or another thinking there is little risk in driving a high-performance car at over 100mph on a deserted motorway. A cyclist without hands on bars is not in full control of the bike.
PRSboy wrote:
By default, the assumption is that someone’s behaviour is safe – there should be some kind of incident or known hazard to declare that someone is unsafe. Whilst stopped in a traffic queue, there’s arguably no danger in looking at facebook (except for facebook being a society and mind destroying cancer), but the danger comes when the motorist decides to start moving and assumes that there are no new hazards in front of them.
“Full control” would mean different things to different people and I’d rather trust Danny Macaskill pulling a wheelie than an occasional cyclist that is out of practise. e.g. a child learning to cycle wouldn’t be in “full control” and taking them to a park to learn would be considered a good thing and not a danger to others.
(It’d be semi-interesting to set up an obstacle course and let loose some cyclists attempting it no-handed and some drivers in their cars and see if there was any significant difference between them. I bet that any course that motorists could navigate would be easy enough to do no-handed on a bike)
hawkinspeter wrote:
The police agree with that assertion:
Jenova20 wrote:
Well, the first link states that it is not illegal (per se).
The second link states that dangerous cycling exists.
The third link relates to driving, so not particularly relevant.
The cyclist may or may not have been cycling in a dangerous fashion, but without evidence, it’s difficult to form a judgement. My opinion is that riding no-handed and/or whilst using a phone is not recommended, but it depends on the circumstances as to whether it causes danger. Generally, I wouldn’t give a second thought if someone does that in a park, but if they did it on a pavement or a busy road, I’d be hoping that they don’t come a cropper.
The ultimate judge of paying due care and attention is how the cyclist/driver can deal with hazards. If a cyclist sees a hazard, grabs his handlebars, slows down and avoids the hazard, then I’d consider that to be due care and attention. If a driver pulls out of a junction without seeing a cyclist and causes a collision, then I’d consider that to be not paying due care and attention even if they had both hands on the wheel and weren’t using a phone.
The third link clearly
The third link clearly mentions cyclists if you had read it. It even has a handy heading for “cyclists”:
“Cyclists
The mobile phone legislation only applies to motor vehicles. However, if a cyclist was using a mobile phone, they could commit offences such as careless or dangerous cycling.”
I did read those, but it
I did read those, but it doesn’t really resolve anything, as it ends in “it depends” which is kinda the starting point of HP’s first response.
Sorry, I hadn’t scrolled that
Sorry, I hadn’t scrolled that far down.
Again that’s a “could commit” so it’d be down to the police person’s opinion. I’d be surprised if police were worried about cyclists in a park, though they might well decide to stop a phone using cyclist on pavements or busy roads (which I wouldn’t necessarily agree with – phone using cyclists tend to police themselves by reducing speed and those that don’t usually end up with a broken phone and some new bruises and scrapes).
Interestingly, the following section mentions smart-watch use by drivers. It’d be an unlucky driver that got prosecuted for paying at a drive-thru using their smart-watch or phone. As much as I dislike seeing drivers using phones, I would not have a problem with them doing it at a drive-thru.
I used to see it as a
I used to see it as a challenge when I finished a late night shift in Camberly, to ride no handed all the way back home to Yateley, thumbs in back jeans pockets and hands out of the wind. There would be no traffic, but there were roundabouts, junctions hills and a bridge over railway lines.
Occasionally I wouldn’t make it all of the way, just a touch on the bars because of traffic, or on the brakes for red lights, but I never fell off. 4-5 miles I guess.
On my racers, when I started on the mountain bikes could never do no handed, far too “active”, my most recent Ultimate Commuter is a little more stable, but I’m a bit out of the habit.
ktache wrote:
Yeah, I’m too cautious (chicken?) to attempt no-handed on my road bike as I’m out of practice doing it and really don’t want to throw carbon down the road (let alone my beautiful pelt). Unicycles are in some respects easier to control no-handed as you can use your hips to steer as well as general leaning. I’d definitely go for a mountain-uni over a penny-farthing for rough terrain though my skills aren’t great.
I have to say I’m pretty much
I have to say I’m pretty much in agreement. The cyclist said it was just a toot, so seems pretty reasonable from the driver who seemed a very reasonable person too.
The cyclist riding no handed
The cyclist riding no handed whilst on the phone comes across as a total smartarse, IMHO. Should be ashamed of himself, trying to make a thing of the actions of who seem to be a courteous elderly couple.
I can also drive my car with no hands on the wheel whilst on my phone quite safely, right up to the point it isn’t.
I find videos like this very cringey, and counterproductive vs those showing genuinely poor driving.
PRSboy wrote:
Much as I hate to see use of the horn in remonstration, particularly against the vulnerable I agree. This is not a hill I’d have wanted to fight on. Best thing to do is keep off your phone….
PRSboy wrote:
Thanks for saying that and saving me the trouble. We have to admit to our mistakes, and riding with no hands whilst on the phone is one, at the very least because it gives drivers another reason to hate us. What could possibly have been so important that you have to answer the phone while riding?
Pandering to drivers in case
Pandering to drivers in case they hate us is not a strategy that can work.
“Rosa, shut up and get to the
“Rosa, shut up and get to the back of the bus,. You’ll only make the white folks hate us more.”
Eton Rifle wrote:
No. Just no. We may feel, with some justice, that we are treated like second-class citizens sometimes, but that analogy is both wrong and tasteless on quite a number of levels.
“a courteous elderly couple”
“a courteous elderly couple”
‘Are you stupid?’
‘If I’d shouted get out the fucking way you moron…’
I’m not making a judgement on the rights and wrongs of the situation overall, but that is not a courteous elderly couple.
I thought the bloke was
I thought the bloke was contrasting his “toot” with a possible other course of action. On what I’ve seen, he come across as pretty calm and sensible.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
Even the cyclist agreed it was a warning ‘toot’, because the fella was concerned the cyclist was weaving about in the road on the phone with no hands on the bars, which is very different from a “BEEEEEEEEEEEEP” that is meant in an aggressive way.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
Picking those individual words out, and not the full sentences along with the tone of their conversation certainly doesn’t make them seem “courteous” but listening to them in context is a very differet matter.
As far as I understand it the used the horn to warn another road user of their presence, when (they believe) the manner of his riding suggest he is not ware of them seems fairly reasonable to me.
Having said that we all know how it feels to have a car horn going off only a few feet away and it is not pleasant, and the chances are that this was being done as a way of giving the rider a telling off, and it isn’t smart to ride like that in traffic, in fact it is stupid.
I know some bikes have 700c
I know some bikes have 700c wheels in most frame sizes but switch 650b in XS/XXS in order to keep the geometry more proportional. Would the same logic apply for going up to larger sizes? Or is it less relevant if not constrained by space (large wheels in a small space might not work physically but small wheels in a large space is fine?)
I would say that any benefit would be slight at best and would seem to be significantly outweighed by the benefits of standardisation and mass production – starting a new standard to cater to a niche market is unlikely to be viable! Not to mention the weight, strength and aero arguments already put forward.
Starting a new standard has
Starting a new standard has been quite a common move in the past, not least in wheel and tyre sizes. A few years ago I bought 20″ tyres for an old child-sized road bike with 20″ wheels. And then found out that there are two 20″ tyre sizes. I had 406 mm tyres and needed 451. There are an awful lot of other sizes.
The second that some marketing person gets it into their beautifully oiled beardy hipster head that another size is viable, it’ll happen. I’m told that 29er mountain bikes are worlds better than old tat with 26, which no one now wants because they’re barely ridable to the shops let alone on a gnarly rad trail, or whatever it is those baggy people do.
So don’t be totally surprised if some idiot pops up on Kickstarter with bigger wheels for unlikely looking bigger bikes for the bigger gentleman with bigger everything.
You have a point – and in
You have a point – and in fact there are a couple of existing “standards” which are bigger than 700C – including 700B. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-tires.html
(It looks like Sheldon correctly predicted your 20″ confusion!)
https://youtu.be/s39kdUOJtnk
https://youtu.be/s39kdUOJtnk
It is cock cyclist like this
It is cock cyclists like this that make the rest of us look bad, What does the Highway Code say:
Rule 112
The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn
while stationary on the road
when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am
This motorist used his horn to warn the cock that he was there. Too many people take the use of the horn as an indication of aggression, that is not neccessarily so.
Legin wrote:
Doesn’t make me look bad, he’s not my family.
Captain Badger wrote:
I’m not sure about that; have you undertaken a DNA comparison?
Legin wrote:
Unless I missed the bit in the report that he had a black and white pointed nose I’d put money on it.
Legin wrote:
Whether or not the driver intended the use of horn to be aggressive or not, his subsequent threat of aggression was (and makes all drivers look bad?).
hawkinspeter wrote:
The kindly older gentleman didn’t threaten any aggression – he was compassionately and eloquently articulating an intelligent view on anti-social and reckless behaviour.
Suppose a pedestrian ran out in front of your bike as you were cycling. Then, when you stopped, whipped out a smart phone and started filming you with a diatribe about how you were endangering his life. I think you’d be hard-pressed to stay as stoic as this man, and he should be applauded for the way he cooly dismantled this aggressive and arrogant miscreant.
Surely in this case the
Surely in this case the better analogy is if using a shared path, a pedestrian in front was on their phone and was walking in a way where a pass wasn’t possible safely with oncoming peds and bikes so you had to stay behind. You then decide to use your 100DB horn on your handlebars to show your displeasure on having to wait behind. You then have a confrontation and the pedestrian whips his phone out as you started to state it is against the law to walk and use a mobile phone.
AlsoSomniloquism wrote:
Thanks for this. I think we can work together to improve on this shared path analogy.
Let’s start by imagining a pedestrian who’s decided to go for a walk wearing a spandex leotard. He passes a familiar sign which reads “Pedestrians, this is a shared use path. For your own safety you should keep to the left of the path and be prescient of cyclists approaching. Please keep your arms beside you and don’t veer wildly on the path.”
Now this hiker has ideas of his own and has noticed that the sign states “should” instead of “must”, and therefore decides that this sign is for idiots and can be completely ignored. He’s also got a camera phone and is a wannabe Vlog sensation, and decides that provoking controversial scenarios will start him on his way to stardom. He’s already picked his Twitter name: “Fully Vaccinated Walking Willy (EU Flag)”.
Instead of walking in a normal fashion down the path he instead dons a pair of headphones and starts jiving Bee Gees-style wildly down the path, completely oblivious to the danger he puts himself in.
An experienced and wise cyclist pedals patiently while approaching this rather odd-looking, self-entitled fellow, and daintily rings his bell. The cyclist knows that operating with a polite and studious courtesy is the best way to protect harmony on shared paths, and so would like to share a few words of advice with the pedestrian for his own self-preservation.
“Aha, now’s my chance for stardom!” thinks the pedestrian. He immediately snatches out his mobile phone and starts filming.
Noting the aggressive nature of the pedestrian, the cyclist makes it clear that he gently rang his bell only for the benefit of the pedestrian, to let him know of his presence and that there was a bike approaching.
“You were walking recklessly by dancing wildly down the path, and I was concerned that you might get yourself hurt”, says the cyclist.
“Who are you? Do you think you’re a policeman? I know that 100 pedestrians are killed and thousands injured by cyclists every year but it’s NOT against the law to walk like a complete bozo and it’s my right to flail around and ignore my own and everyone else’s wellbeing if I choose to”, retorted Willy. “Also, why did you ring your bell? It sounded louder than a jet engine and I’m going to shame you on Twitter now so ner ner ner ner ner”
“Well I kind of wish I had knocked into you now, might have knocked a bit of sense into you. Goodbye.”
Well now you have gone and
Well now you have gone and ruined it with the 100 pedestrians killed a year by cyclists. Surely only Ex-President loving conspracy theorists believe that type of thing. Next this pedestrian will state that powergenerating windmills will be killing everything and giving cancer.
Nigel Garrage wrote:
Rather much to expect pedestrians to be prescient of cyclists approaching, most of them don’t seem to realise we’re there when they can actually see us.
Prescient: having or showing knowledge of events before they take place.
Avoiding such flamboyant
Avoiding such flamboyant pedestrians sounds like a good reason to shun shared use paths and cycle on the road instead. The equivalent for the motorist would be to avoid driving through parks.
Whilst personally I would consider cycling in traffic no hands and looking at a phone as some form of fuckwittery, I’d also make sure to give additional space for the possible consequences of the fuckwittery to not involve me or my vehicle. This would include not startling them unnecessarily unless they were about to cycle into me or someone else. I cannot imagine threatening to run someone over just because I consider their behaviour to be a bit irrational.
Sure but in this case, both
Sure but in this case, both parties agree it was around 65dB as they both agreed it was a toot.
Car horns are 100-120 dB. It
Car horns are 100-120 dB. It doesn’t matter if it is a toot or they lay on it for 5 mins. It is on / off.
Tripe; the cyclist, caused
Tripe; the cyclist, caused this confronation. I read it as the driver didn’t need to be arguing the toss with a total plank and responded in frustration. That does not make him aggressive; that is a response to unreasonable provication.
Legin wrote:
How can you tell who started it? Could have been the driver beeping unnecessarily or could have been the cyclist reacting poorly to a polite beep.
“Polite beep”, hmm. We all
“Polite beep”, hmm. We all know there’s no such thing, not car-car and certainly not car-vulnerable road user.
When I’m driving, I occasionally make correct use of the horn, e.g. when a another driver is ererging from a driveway I. Can see them, they can’t yet see me. I always wave profusely to indicate that I wasn’t being an arse.
Another thought, if there’s a part of my life that is continually causing me grief (e.g. a job, a person/ relationship; a football team, an activity) I look to see what I can do about it. Sometimes you can fix it, change your own approach, negotiate better terms with the other party; but sometimes you have to cut it (or them) right out.
Driving and following a bad football team – it’s as though some people have to have something in their lives to wind them up.
Nice work on getting hold of
Nice work on getting hold of the snacks and drink, but I’m afraid Daisy may be getting a fine and maybe booted from the race for throwing the bottle away like that.
On the hands-free cycling,
On the hands-free cycling, when one party says “you’re not allowed to” and the other says “no, different rules”, then perhaps instead of quoting more and more opinions from random people, it would be great if road.cc could report what the rules actually state, so that we can evaluate who is wrong and who’s right.
As far as I can see, the highwaycode says: “Rule 66: You should: – keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear”. This is a “should” rule, so it’s not a law. The only mention of rules about devices that I can find is Rules 149 and 150 which explicitly refer to “driving” and don’t seem to apply to cycling, but perhaps I’ve overlooked something.
So cycling hands-free with a mobile phone doesn’t break any laws as such, and it seems to me that in that respect the cyclist was correct and the driver was wrong.
Whether it was advisable and safe in the particular situation and whether he was in control of the bike, we don’t know because the video doesn’t show him actually cycling, so it’s all speculation based on what the driver and the cyclist say. Perfect starting point for people who want to open another culture war here…
He didn’t say it was a
He didn’t say it was a against the law, he said the cyclist was riding recklessly. But anyway:
29 Careless, and inconsiderate, cycling.
If a person rides a cycle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
Now I’m no lawyer, but I’m pretty confident that it could be successfully argued that riding with no hands on the handlebars while looking at a mobile constitutes a lack of care and attention.
Nigel Garrage wrote:
Dammit, that’s the second time I’ve liked one of your posts today.
1. The driver said “… aren
1. The driver said “… aren’t allowed to have their phones in their hands … you have to conform to the same rules”. Talking about what is allowed is very fundamentally a statement about laws, because nothing else gives anybody the authority to decide what is allowed and what isn’t. So clarifying the actual laws is very relevant.
2. The legal test is whether he was inattentive or inconsiderate, not whether he had hands on the handlebar or held a phone as such; these are two different (though possibly related) things, depending on exact circumstances and skills. Perhaps he was not in control, perhaps he was – as I said “we don’t know because the video doesn’t show him actually cycling, so it’s all speculation based on what the driver and the cyclist say. Perfect starting point for people who want to open another culture war here…”
Feel free to speculate what might or might not have happened outside the video; I was only trying to clarifying the actual legal situation about mobile phone use while cycling. If a lawyer can shed light on that, that would be great, but I’m not interested in more finger-pointing about things that might or might not have happened.
Wow, the advert for the
Wow, the advert for the strange insurance website has been published after they create a pointless and completely meaningless “survey”. Job done for their marketing people but now some people will think if you have instagram and take photos, the photos you take must be nice or the place you have been is better than somewhere else. Should be titled – locations with most hashtags of certain type when a photograph with a bicycle was shared.