Cyclists and scooter riders targeted in speeding crackdown; Dura-Ace 12-speed leaked?; Ram chases Canadian cyclist off the road; Children traumatised by flooded ride; Your views on road rage; Clucking bikes; The best trophy in cycling + more live blog

The main benefits of speed limits are to avoid speed differentials as well as excessive speed; to keep traffic at a safe and predictable speed for other road users, such as those vehicles entering the road and pedestrians crossing the road.

grOg wrote:

The main benefits of speed limits are to avoid speed differentials as well as excessive speed; to keep traffic at a safe and predictable speed for other road users, such as those vehicles entering the road and pedestrians crossing the road.

Interesting hypothesis, one that I believe falls down considering the rarity of minimum speed limits, especially on roads permitting a higher speed.

grOg wrote:

The main benefits of speed limits are to avoid speed differentials as well as excessive speed; to keep traffic at a safe and predictable speed for other road users, such as those vehicles entering the road and pedestrians crossing the road.

They should fit all new cars with devices so that they can control their speed - maybe some foot pedals so that drivers don't have to move their hands from the steering wheel. I'd go for one pedal to speed up and one to slow down and that would solve any speed differential issues as long as the drivers are watching the road.

I was told during my driving test that I should have accelerated more in the 400m between two roundabouts with restricted sightlines to avoid annoying other drivers. 

Captain Badger wrote:

He has the same "Awareness" that you might be pissing off someone behind you.

I have that too. 

I think my colleague would say that he doesn't overtake when it's not safe. However, it's the anxiety that it causes him is the issue. My point is that other road users may take the cowardly approach.
It's a logic that we see often. How many times to we get a patient drive waiting to overtake safely only to be then subject to punishment passes from tailgating followers

Yeah, I'm not trying to pin blame onto him, but pointing out the issues I have with that logic.

Feeling anxiety when you think that you're holding up others is a fairly common emotion and it most likely a result of us being such a social species, but unfortunately we can also be a very aggressive species too. When cycling/driving it's rarely helpful to let emotions overrule your training and experience (though a bit of anger whilst cycling can be a good way of boosting your adrenaline). If you look at the best/fastest drivers and pilots, they seem to be very emotionally detached when driving/piloting, so I doubt that there's much need to be so invested in a 30-40mph drive to the shops/office etc.

There is undoubtedly a sense of panic driven by the feeling that you're going to get aggression from drivers behind you, that you must get past quickly, and doing so might put you in danger. It's almost like they're compelled to GIF. There's also that "I couldn't slow down, I'd get rear-ended m'lud" bollocks that gets trotted out in low winter sun defences.

Whilst driving I've had full-on sweary horn beeping dangerous overtakes because I've dared to sit behind cyclists through double white line sections (yep, doing more than 10mph). Across the open forest here the speed limit is 40mph and pretty much every time I drive those roads I have multiple drivers overtaking whilst I'm sat at or slightly below the speed limit - a few near misses with livestock and oncoming cars over the years. There's a section through one village near me which goes 60/50/40/30/50/40/60 in just over a mile. So many times over lockdown I've had drivers arrive behind me doing 60-odd when I've been doing 30 through the 30 section, flash their lights, and then overtake on double whites.

There's a general lack of forward-thinking and planning in driver behaviour that needs to be addressed. It's why when cycling you get two or three decent passes followed by a third or fourth close pass - the driver further back hasn't twigged that it's a cyclist requiring the drivers in front to overtake, and so hasn't planned for it and is suddenly surprised. Plus the age old thing of racing to join the next traffic jam 1 car further ahead than you would have been if you hadn't just about pulled off that insane overtake. 

When I passed my driving test (late '80s) I remember my instructor tellng me to drive at or near the speed limit whenever possible, and also to not show hesitation at junctions. That seems to be instilled in drivers - must make progress. Perhaps that's the issue.

Those followers would 99% likely have close passed anyway even if they hadn't had to wait.

They are the same ones that close pass on an empty road with acres of space to spare.

A good point, (but it's mitigating circumstances rather than an excuse) so lets not forget that there is just as much road-rage directed at other motorists - however the main difference of course is that motorist-on-motorist road rage is usually regarding a perceived wrongdoing on one of their parts, whereas road rage towards cyclists seems to exist purely due to the fact that we exist.

Kendalred wrote:

.... so lets not forget that there is just as much road-rage directed at other motorists .....

As both motorist and rider, I don't believe that to be the case

It's weird isn't it how some drivers get so irate at being held up by a cyclist for a moment, but are quite happy to wait at traffic lights, give way at junctions, and even concede priority to other drivers, just to be 'nice'.

Had a classic example yesterday with a car revving as they overtook me going downhill at nearly 30mph in a built up area. Only for them to almost immediately slam the brakes on, cheerfully conceeding their priority to another driver at some parked cars. Good job I could stop in time.

Nah, it's just the difference between things they perceive might be a serious risk to them or to their paintwork or to cause them a delay, and things which they do not.

Such a driver's risk assessment process runs like this:

Risk is head-on crash with oncoming vehicle?
Or being t-boned by an artic because I've jumped a red light? Avoid.

Risk is being stranded by meeting oncoming vehicle mid-chicane with no way to get round, so have to reverse up? Avoid (unless they judge they have a good chance of bullying the other driver back)

Risk is knocking a cyclist off, or forcing them off the road? Absolutely fine, proceed without a second thought.

If he is making ANY decisions on how to drive based on the impatience level of who is behind him then he is simply mistaken about how safe a driver he is.

The cyclist element of the scenario is irrelevant.

Maybe not upsetting the herd should take priority. It's nothing new…

Check out the Putney High Tide Club on Facebook for amusement - plenty of pictures of floating cars. You're right, 'flooding on the Embankment' is a) not new and b) not something anyone can fix, it's just the tide, it does that! But the closure of the bridge has led to much worse traffic on the Lower Richmond Road and you can't avoid it entirely even if you take the side-streets to the south. And the towpath floods too at high tide, and remains muddy for sometime thereafter.

It's not even over their feet.

Can they not just change the school start & finish times to match the tides?

Might be an hour though which would be difficult to deal with on a random basis.

That was my thought as well. If kids were tramautised by water on the roads, why are they always eager to jump into puddles. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

That was my thought as well. If kids were tramautised by water on the roads, why are they always eager to jump into puddles. 

It's a it different when it is hard to tell where the flooded path ends and the river begins

Agreed.  A valid point completely ruined by faux hysteria.  Not helpful to the cause.

Maybe Southern Water had just released some large brown trout into the river again. Those would be intimidating.

riggbeck wrote:

Maybe Southern Water had just released some large brown trout into the river again. Those would be intimidating.

Thames Water

brooksby wrote:

I remember reading a news item some time ago, a woman had driven into a cyclist from behind and knocked them off. When the police turned up (I know!) her actual quoted excuse was that there had been a cyclist in front of her, on the road, and she just didn't know what to do... (???)

Titanus wrote:

A lot of misery could be avoided if people just let faster people past.

A lot of misery could be avoided if people just stopped obsessing over getting everywhere as fast as possible in the first place.

Titanus wrote:

This doesn't excuse being a cunt, but it does make people behave as such.

No it doesn't - it just gives them a retrospective 'justification' for behaving like that.

Titanus wrote:

If I am stuck behind somone without any way to get past, I find it incredibly frustrating.

You need to adjust how you approach driving then.