Not Near Miss of the Day: How to safely overtake cyclists… while driving a tank; “It was about protecting Sepp”: End of Jumbo-Visma civil war as Vingegaard and Roglič work for Kuss (+ Remco wins); Huge sinkhole swallows bike lane + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
"I just don't understand... I didn't enjoy watching that": David Millar (plus plenty more) in disbelief at Jumbo-Visma's Sepp Kuss treatment
The fallout from the Angliru stage rumbles on this morning, seemingly most of the cycling world despairing for Sepp Kuss’ slip backwards towards, not rival teams baying for blood but instead… his own teammates… on his birthday too.
As we included in yesterday’s post-stage live blog debrief, both Primoz Roglič and Jonas Vingegaard have said they want Kuss to win the Vuelta. Those comments coming not long after they had left him in the final stretches of the climb, rather than offering support like the American has to them on countless occasions. And while, yes, Kuss had told them to go, the images haven’t sat well with many cycling fans and former pro riders…
David Millar said: “I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t wait. I’ve watched Sepp ride for them countless times while commentating these past years, I’m a huge fan of his. He’s class. I didn’t enjoy watching that today, and I love bike racing.”
Honest question. Do you want the weakest of the three to win? Is it not elite sports? I understand the feelings behind your statement, but to me that is just turning the race into a reality show where the winner is chosen based on past merits.
— FAUSTO (@Faust0w) September 13, 2023
“In Grand Tours the leaders rely on their team mates to get them through the days they’re weak,” Millar replied. “That’s Sepp’s job. Tables have turned here. I like the idea that sport isn’t all rational number crunching, that occasionally emotional decisions win over. They’re the greatest stories, and the reason sport can be so life affirming. Today was not life-affirming, it was quite miserable in fact, when it so easily could have been wonderful.”
This was the post-stage discussion on GCN, Sean Kelly saying he thinks it’s “unfair”:
“I think it’s unfair. The way Kuss has been so loyal to those two riders over many years.”
The Breakaway crew discuss a dramatic stage for Jumbo–Visma’s riders 🗣#LaVuelta23 | @SportsOrla | @AdamBlythe89 | @SeanKellyCC | @daniellloyd1 pic.twitter.com/ivLAgzQjcj
— Eurosport (@eurosport) September 13, 2023
Anyone got a case for the defence?
End of the day, the debate about whether Roglic or Vingegaard should win the Vuelta GC rather than Kuss comes down to whether one thinks that, in sport, winning is the only thing that matters versus how one views concepts like sportsmanship, reward, and loyalty #LaVuelta23 pic.twitter.com/qi6m5wsotN
— Neal Rogers 🇺🇦 (@nealrogers) September 13, 2023
Unpopular take incoming: what makes Sepp such an exceptional domestique is the very reason he could lose red to a team mate. His smiles post-stage seemed genuine. It takes a ruthless hunger to win a Grand Tour. Is it the others’ fault, or even his, if he doesn’t have that? 🫣
— Orla Chennaoui (@SportsOrla) September 13, 2023
With another big mountain stage, the last challenging one before Madrid (after this we’ve got two sprints and a relentlessly punchy medium mountain 208km world champs-style stage) today could be decisive… I’d love to know what the rest of Jumbo’s domestiques and staff think about the whole situation…
Anyway, get your thoughts in the comments. Are we all far too romantic? Should Jumbo-Visma let their best man win? Do you want to see Roglič and Vingegaard let one of their most reliable teammates have his day in the sun?
POLL: Should Jumbo-Visma let Sepp Kuss win La Vuelta?
There’s only one way to settle this…
Appalling, disingenuous or perhaps a subtle tactical game? Your thoughts on La Vuelta
While the poll results roll in, here are some of your thoughts…
kil0ran: “Kuss treatment is appalling. He clearly had a brief moment where he couldn’t follow which subsequently he overcame because he was able to latch on to Landa’s wheel. Landa did the job Primoz and Jonas should have done. Given that Bahrain Victorious were on the front for the early ramps — with Kuss right behind once Valter and Van Baarle popped — they effectively kept Sepp in red today, not Jumbo.
“It’s a betrayal and brutal shameful behaviour. It’s particularly hard to watch because until this race I’ve been a fan of Primoz and Jonas — even as a G fan I was delighted to see Primoz’ redemption at the Giro. I’m not a fan of UAE as a team but I hope they flash some greenwashed green and bring Kuss in to support Pogacar next year. Revenge will be best served on the slopes of L’Alpe and Stelvio.”
Tell us how you really feel!
henryb: “Roglič and Vingegaard saying that they ‘want’ Kuss to win the Vuelta is a bit disingenuous when it is in fact their choice whether they give him the support he needs (and which every Grand Tour winner needs) to win. If Kuss doesn’t win the Vuelta, how hollow it will sound when Roglič or Vingegaard say: ‘Well, we wanted him to win, we really did…’.”
A ray of hope from Rendel Harris? “I am possibly being naive here, but isn’t it feasible that Jumbo Visma are playing a more subtle game than they are being given credit for, bringing their two superstars up as close to Kuss as they possibly can without overtaking him so that if he cracks today either Roglič or Vinegaard will be as far as possible ahead of potential challengers, and to keep them away from the JV podium shutout?
“If Vinegaard really had designs on the jersey why would he not have gone full gas in the final yesterday when on current form he could’ve easily picked up the nine seconds needed for it, especially if he had outsprinted Roglic for the ten seconds line bonus instead of the six he got?
“Like the majority of fans, I would love to see Kuss take a GT and I will be as loud as anybody in my condemnation of his teammates if they do the dirty on him, but until I see one of them deliberately seize the jersey, rather than putting more time into their rivals lower down the rankings without displacing Kuss, I’m going to withhold judgement.
“Of course, depending on what happens today, this comment may age very badly!”
Tech news round-up: New bikes galore + plenty more
Loads of news and releases to keep the tech team busy this week. I’m sure you’ve seen most of it already, but here’s a handy round-up of it all in one place just to be sure…
> All new Roubaix SL8 is the “smoothest” and fastest endurance road bike ever, claims Specialized
That release came on the same day that Wahoo unveiled its new £1,400 Kickr trainer with “the closest real-world ride-feel” thanks to the addition of fore/aft movement. In short, it makes it act a little bit like a trainer on a rocker plate. As you alter your power, get in/out of the saddle, or readjust your position, the trainer is designed to move forward and backward with you.
> Wahoo introduces £1,400 Kickr Move indoor trainer with “the closest real-world ride-feel”
Oh, and if you are tempted to take your training indoors now the evenings aren’t quite as long and enticing as they were a couple of months ago, Zwift’s Watopia might be your destination of choice.
The indoor cycling giant has announced a host of new features coming to its virtual world in the upcoming months. These include an expansion to Watopia and the return of the experimental gamified racing experience Tour of Watopia, plus Climb Portal difficulty scaling and much more.
Emily has all the key details of what you can expect around Zwift’s virtual roads going forward…
Fulcrum has some new wheels out, the “versatile and comfortable” Wind 42 and 57 carbon wheels for “road and light off-road riding”, if you’ve got £1,250 knocking about for an upgrade.
And there’s a new Liv endurance bike, with the announcement last night of the fifth generation of the Avail. More aero, lighter, 38mm tyre clearance… all the good stuff.
And for a sneak peak at some of the things we’re currently reviewing, check out the latest edition of ‘Five cool things’, this week featuring the Garmin Edge 840 Solar cycling computer, plus stuff from Suunto, DJI, Tozo and more…
A unanimous majority...
‘Ooh maybe I’ll check in with the poll to see how… it’s… going… ah…’
Primark apologises for pulling out of cycle hub deal
Reading Borough Council is searching for an alternative venue for its town centre cycle hub plan — a facility with 82 secure bicycle spaces, plus maintenance space and bike loan service — after Primark pulled of an agreement to lease one of its vacant units.
The BBC reports that the council has asked for a full explanation after the retailer pulled out of the agreement to lease its former store in West Street for the facility, Primark saying it was due to a “change in circumstances”.
Funding for the project is to come from the Department for Transport’s Cabability Fund, and would amount to £249,454.
“Reading is really important to us, and we’re committed to continuing to play an active role within the community and to supporting the town. We hope the cycle hub finds a suitable home soon,” Primark said.
Councillor John Ennis said: “This is obviously hugely disappointing news for the council and Reading’s cycle community having invested so much time and energy in this particular location for a cycle hub.”
The GC showdown we didn't know we needed
All in their prime, who wins?
‘IT Crowd are upping the pace here on the final climb, Froome looks in trouble, Roglič is dropped… here comes Vingegaard on the attack, Ayoade glued to his back wheel…”
Councillor urges police to charge "tourist cyclists" coming on cruise liners and "running around unsafe"
Geraint Thomas says he thinks Sepp Kuss "deserves a bit more respect"
[Luis Angel Gomez/SprintCyclingAgency©2023/ASO]
Geraint Thomas has spoken about the Sepp Kuss, Jumbo-Visma situation at the Vuelta. Here’s what he told the TV cameras at the start of today’s stage…
“Initially I think if it’s obvious that the leader from the start is stronger then they should have the opportunity to race for the win. But, looking at this race, looking at yesterday I don’t think there is such a big difference. The fact Kuss only got distanced 1km from the top of such a hard climb at the end of such a hard race, I feel like that’s slightly different to a big gap.
“There shouldn’t be any gifts in a Grand Tour win. It’s one thing giving a stage but I don’t think just because someone’s worked for you for years you need to let them win, but I don’t think that’s the case anyway. He’s good enough to be in the position he’s in… and that’s the funny thing, they played that card [earlier in the race to get Kuss in the lead], they rode super hard that day to get a gap and now they’re changing their mind.
“I feel for Kuss, he deserves a bit more respect, not necessarily from the riders, from the team. The team should be stronger with that […] it was three of them, no other tactics came into play. If it was close for the podium, that’s pretty much sewn up. Roglič isn’t going to win this Vuelta so there was no real need for him to carry on and gain those extra seconds. He still could have won the stage and his position in third is still solid so he could have slowed up a bit.”
We’ll be back with a fresh pod tonight. Wonder what will be first on the agenda… 🍿 pic.twitter.com/dawmTh4c21
— Watts Occurring (@Watts_Occurring) September 14, 2023
The Campag Kid on building retro masterpieces, trickle-down tech, and getting hit by a car you helped design on the road.cc Podcast
Birmingham safer roads protests are going national
Quick shout-out for this…
— Tim Egan (@timegan1995) September 13, 2023
Tour of Britain organiser Mick Bennett confirms intention to see Women's Tour return in 2024
[Zac Williams/SWpix.com]
Poor Mick Bennett finally getting some good news to talk about. After a week of responding to critics of his Tour of Britain route and explaining the pretty grim picture of putting a bike race on in Britain at the minute, he’s got something more positive…
Speaking to the Radio Cycling podcast, he confirmed “we have applied for those dates” in relation to both the Tour of Britain and Women’s Tour in 2024. “We’ve already got a number of venues that are signed up for it,” he added.
Fingers crossed.
Why don't cyclists use cycle lanes? Massive sinkhole swallows London bike route
A large sinkhole has opened up in Eltham – the post box is still standing along with locals’ sense of humour @BBCRadioLondon pic.twitter.com/V95dzkTZoO
— Harry Low (@HarryLow49) September 14, 2023
Top marks to whoever wrote ‘(gone)’ on that ‘road closed’ sign. Slightly surprised we didn’t get a ‘cyclists dismount’ sign too. Oh well…
This is Eltham in south east London where a sinkhole the size of a car has appeared, taking a cycle lane with it. It emerged on Monday morning on Dunvegan Road, leaving the council to investigate its cause.
“We were notified of a sinkhole in Dunvegan Road by the London fire brigade on Monday, September 11. Our investigations are ongoing to determine the cause and develop next steps,” a spokesperson said.
“Until then, the area will remain closed off and reassurance visits will be taking place with neighbouring businesses. The road is expected to be closed for at least a few weeks and diversions will be in place.”
Wilier introduces cheaper versions of Filante aero road bike
Another bike release for a week packed full of them?
> Wilier introduces cheaper versions of Filante aero road bike
End of Jumbo-Visma civil war as Jonas Vingegaard and Primož Roglič work for Sepp Kuss — Remco Evenpoel wins stage from the break
Well, well, well, it appears someone at Jumbo-Visma has pulled rank and got everyone working towards one goal — namely, current red jersey and mountain domestique extraordinaire Sepp Kuss holding the jersey until Madrid. Incredible to see the power of a road.cc live blog poll…
The scenes on today’s final climb were what many had hoped to see yesterday: two-time Tour de France winner Jonas Vingegaard and quadruple Grand Tour victor Primož Roglič, all of their six Grand Tours supported by Kuss’ assistance, doing the work to support their American teammate have his own day in the Spanish sun.
It would be a stretch to say the mood at the finish was celebratory, Kuss thanking his new super domestiques before wheeling off for the podium ceremony, however the discipline on the climb was perfect — Vingegaard pacing, Roglič sitting in and refusing to attack.
Up the road, Remco Evenpoel took his third stage win of the race, breakaway companion Damiano Caruso saying it was “like following a scooter”. By the finish the Belgian’s winning majority was 4:44, surely the largest Grand Tour stage-winning margain we’ve seen in a considerable length of time.
Remco Evenepoel claims today’s stage in Spain! 👏
That’s his third victory in this Vuelta 🥇#LaVuelta23 pic.twitter.com/OcbZOLEsia
— Eurosport (@eurosport) September 14, 2023
Jonas Vingegaard: "It was about protecting Sepp"
[Luis Angel Gomez/SprintCyclingAgency©2023]
“Everyone could see it was about protecting Sepp […] there’s a really hard stage Saturday so we have to be careful, we have to keep fighting until Madrid. It’s nice to be able to pay him back, to do something for Sepp that he’s done for me and Primož. Obviously I wanted to pay him back today and on Saturday, it’s a very tough, very long stage so we have to be careful.”
Sepp Kuss: "It's getting closer"
“I think Sepp Kuss has just won this Vuelta!”
Roglic and Vingegaard help teammate Kuss get over the line today 🤝
One step closer to glory! 🍾#LaVuelta23 pic.twitter.com/yShC4DKf3Z
— Eurosport (@eurosport) September 14, 2023
“The guys did a really great job, pulling the whole day, on the last two laps of this finishing climb Jan [Tratnik] was riding super for us and then Jonas did a really good pace from the bottom. I was a bit scared because he’s so strong… his pace isn’t always the easiest, he rode super for me and we rode a more defensive tactic. We all agreed as a team and us three before the Angliru stage and then there was what strategy we wanted to follow after that stage. It’s always changing and there are always mistakes here and there but that’s human nature.
“It’s getting closer [Vuelta victory], tomorrow is easier but you have to stay focused and stage 20 will be really long and hard. We’re out of the big mountains but there are always tough ones.”
Giant launches "lighter, smoother and more efficient" Defy endurance road bike: first ride
I can’t keep up (and I’ve already used the ‘not another one’ GIF)… yet another new release. The poor tech team are going to need to lie down in a dark room this weekend.
> Giant launches “lighter, smoother and more efficient” Defy endurance road bike: first ride
Not Near Miss of the Day: How to safely overtake cyclists... while driving a tank
The @RoyalArmdCorps knows how to safely pass cyclists. pic.twitter.com/srvbIxD48l
— Bikery (@Bikery1966) September 12, 2023
Bikery told us this happened near the the Royal Armoured Corp Bovington Tank Range in Dorset… and it’s not the first time…
Given their proximity to the range, “We’ve been passed by them a few times while riding in the area over the years. It’s always a laugh!”
“The instructors seem to love it as it puts the trainee drivers under pressure, they always give you a smile and a wave or thumbs up. I can imagine seeing dozens of them coming towards you is pretty scary unless you have an anti-tank weapon!”
Tanks on the road also produces some “interesting driver psychology”, Bikery told us, as they’ve seen “several drivers wait at give ways for the tanks to pass when there was time to pull out leading to them being stuck behind the tank doing 30mph in a 60 limit”.
‘What’s the largest military vehicle you’ve safely been overtaken by?’
Help us to bring you the best cycling content
If you’ve enjoyed this article, then please consider subscribing to road.cc from as little as £1.99. Our mission is to bring you all the news that’s relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. Your subscription will help us to do more.
55 Comments
Read more...
Read more...
Read more...
Latest Comments
Another really weird review from road.cc. They take a product, use it for something it wasn't designed for and then mark it down. I've just upgraded my Boost to the Boost 3 and I can say it does the jobs it is designed for very well. I use it on rides in daylight for Saturday group rides and occasional all day epics. I feel that cars are more likely to see me and the significantly brighter day flash and doubling of battery life are significant upgrades, especially for longer rides. It's also so light that there's really no downside to using it so safety wins. I also use it for short 30-min commuting. The easy of detachment and robustness of the light here are key and it's perfect for this use case. For longer rides that involve significant unlit or off-road, such as along a canal path, at night I use the Exposure Strada RB. Again, road.cc, right tool: right job. It's also great that Exposure use common mounts for all their lights. I change the Boost and RB between multiple bikes using the mount with a red pin and it takes seconds to move from bike to bike or to detach for charging. The table for setting brightness is something I tend to set only once. Then the single button is a boon.
Yes, I can't wait: a duff BMC frame with a crap oval BB, and carbon rims set up tubeless and without a pressure -relief hole so you can pressurise the cavity and which would likely (to complete the disaster waiting to happen) be hookless/ mini-hook and explode with no notice
About time they got more of them out of cars and onto bikes. Do their fitness levels some good.
I cannot tell if they relate to my report or someone else’s Yes, that's the point - the aim of the pseudo - database is to shut the punters up and deceive them about how little the police have done. They know the deception scheme has been successful when people report on here that they have achieved successful outcomes from most of their reports. They haven't.
Mayor Adams perverted a lot of laws, hence the fact that he is no longer Mayor. New York cyclists have had an ongoing problem with members of the ultra-orthodox Satmar Jewish community in Williamsburg. They don't like people in cycle shorts and skimpy tops cycling through the neighbourhood. They used their political influence to get a cycle lane removed from a local highway. There was talk of a naked bike ride through the area but I think wiser counsels prevailed.
This is disgusting. Cycling is for everyone; no-one should feel intimidated out of the hobby. The kind of "men" who think it's ok to harass women would think twice about doing it to a man. If we are going to persuade large numbers of motorists to become cyclists then the issue of harassment has to be addressed.
I've a memory the poster may be Edinburgh-adjacent (is that right?) - in which case it *may* be possible as the shared use paths (former railways) (plus a bit of more recent infra) can allow you to do this. Highly dependent on your journey though. That's not the case most places in NL. There you may be using motor-traffic-reduced and slowed *streets* there but most roads have alternatives. But here in the north-west I can cycle for several miles in a couple of directions using them. Of course if I needed to eg. go east-west in the south of the city it's back to more usual UK conditions...
According to the website as seen on my mobile this is an outstanding deal - the price in the box at the top by the weight etc. is showing as £0.00 ! (sorry due to site redesign I can't post a screenshot - besides I'm ignoring the price points which *are* quoted later in the article and am off to claim my free machine...)
Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Then ... it will be easy to see that in the casualty numbers, no? And (albeit this is looking a decade back) indeed you can *see* the truth! https://robertweetman.wordpress.com/2017/09/29/a-year-of-death-and-injury-2016/ Do you mean is "we are used to *looking for the cars*" (or even "looking with our ears" - which is real) and thus cyclists are often surprising? Or is it "cyclists are in or space, we know that motorists are only on the roads"? * But ... it is true that cyclists are a bit less visible and quieter than motorists. And it is true that some cyclists don't make efforts to be visible. And indeed some are too relaxed about cycling in accordance with the law. The latter points are not good ... but then the damage caused by cyclists in a collision is on average much less than a with a motor vehicle. And while people often think that motorists are more likely to be motivated to obey the law because of legal consequences (because eg. "They've got number plates") that it's debatable. Unlike cyclists motorists aren't going to be motivated to proceed carefully because of worries about being injured or killed in a collision with a pedestrian... * Excluding all those motorists who reach year kill more people on the footways than cyclists do altogether...
The cross checking is limited but I do have the matching data fields on my own records which correspond with the police's data fields: 'Offence Date', Offending Vehicle Type', 'Reporter' ('Cyclist' for me), 'Location Town or City', 'Primary Offence'. If that isn't replicated in the database for an incident I have reported it tells me something is wrong with the database. If I have reported an incident and there are several matching possibilities then, yes, I cannot tell if they relate to my report or someone else's.
55 thoughts on “Not Near Miss of the Day: How to safely overtake cyclists… while driving a tank; “It was about protecting Sepp”: End of Jumbo-Visma civil war as Vingegaard and Roglič work for Kuss (+ Remco wins); Huge sinkhole swallows bike lane + more on the live blog”
Roglic and Vingegaard saying
Roglic and Vingegaard saying that they ‘want’ Kuss to win the Vuelta is a bit disingenuous when it is in fact their choice whether they give him the support he needs (and which every Grand Tour winner needs) to win. If Kuss doesn’t win the Vuelta, how hollow it will sound when Roglic or Vingegaard say “Well, we wanted him to win, we really did…”
I am possibly being naive
I am possibly being naive here, but isn’t it feasible that Jumbo Visma are playing a more subtle game than they are being given credit for, bringing their two superstars up as close to Kuss as they possibly can without overtaking him so that if he cracks today either Roglic or Vinegaard will be as far as possible ahead of potential challengers, and to keep them away from the JV podium shutout? If Vinegaard really had designs on the jersey why would he not have gone full gas in the final yesterday when on current form he could’ve easily picked up the nine seconds needed for it, especially if he had outsprinted Roglic for the ten seconds line bonus instead of the six he got? Like the majority of fans, I would love to see Kuss take a GT and I will be as loud as anybody in my condemnation of his teammates if they do the dirty on him, but until I see one of them deliberately seize the jersey, rather than putting more time into their rivals lower down the rankings without displacing Kuss, I’m going to withhold judgement.
Of course, depending on what happens today, this comment may age very badly!
I think that’s exactly how
I think that’s exactly how the JV PR team would like to spin it too…
As mentioned, they could have checked the pace for a few moments to allow Kuss to recollect himself and continued on collectively.
Or more effectively. Let Roglic go away alone, leaving Landa to do the chasing, before hitting him towards the top, in a repeat of the Tourmalet stage.
However, the challenge here is not that Roglic and Vingegaard want to take the win from Kuss, its that neither want to finish on the third step of the podium. This is where the politics actually lie.
Both want to be JV top dog. Jonas will feel he is superior, yet he’s not beaten Rog before. Rog will feel he is every bit as good and only bad luck and alternative calendars have kept him from tour wins.
In many ways, its a shame that Kuss is in the middle of this, as otherwise I think we’d be witnessing a brutal bit of inter-team rivalry.
Well written, I agree
Well written, I agree completely!
Rendel Harris wrote:
This is something that is being lost in all the emotional noise. With the level of investment and the prestige of the win there really isn’t an enormous amount of room for “it would be nice if” sentiment in tactical decision-making. If JV somehow cocked up we’d all be hanging them out to dry as incompetent.
In the end we are not partial to the conversations behind closed doors and I think that putting words into riders’ and directors’ mouths, analysing actions and even body language during and after the stage, we distant observers are just making an huge amount of noise on supposition and precious little evidence.
Like the 3 ex-pro riders in the TV studio, I don’t like to see the Roglic & Vingegaard ride away from Kuss in the red jersey on a crucial stage when the lead is not at risk. But I can’t bring myself to get worked up about it. I’m just an ordinary cyclist, sat at home watching a video. I cannot get that emotionally invested in the actions of a team of superstar riders that I won’t ever meet on a hillside in Spain.
So I was right! Maybe…I
So I was right! Maybe…I suspect we won’t know the whole truth of who was planning what and what the management ordered until the end of career autobiographies – if then.
Kuss treatment is appalling.
Kuss treatment is appalling. He clearly had a brief moment where he couldn’t follow which subsequently he overcame because he was able to latch on to Landa’s wheel. Landa did the job Primoz and Jonas should have done. Given that BV were on the front for the early ramps – with Kuss right behind once Valter and Van Baarle popped – they effectively kept Sepp in red today, not Jumbo. It’s a betrayal and brutal shameful behaviour. It’s particularly hard to watch because until this race I’ve been a fan of Primoz and Jonas – even as a G fan I was delighted to see Primoz’ redemption at the Giro.
I’m not a fan of UAE as a team but I hope they flash some greenwashed green and bring Kuss in to support Pogacar next year. Revenge will be best served on the slopes of L’Alpe and Stelvio.
This debate reares its head
This debate reares its head in one form or another every so often doesn’t it? As a domestique your job is to support your team leader, not work against them (cough cough Chris Froome 2012). But when you get in to a situation like this, when do the roles reverse? When do you do the “right” thing & repay the service such riders have given you (seem to remember Froome went on to rely on Richie Porte & Wout Poels et al quite a lot after 2012 & probably had a different view on roles & who was stronger). Ah the unwritten rules of cycling – a wonderful if infuriating thing.
Kuss is in red & has looked very good value for it so should PR & JV now accept that & be team players? OR given that they are the highly paid “faces” of Jumbo Visma (the notional “team leaders” on paper) wouldn’t the team then want them to be front & centre & winning the big races? It’s a problem they’ve created for themselves with their embarrassment of riches in the talent department, but a nice one to have if you are they. It’s not unlike F1 & teams ordering one driver to allow the other to pass because it suits the team’s politics & goals (and who knows – contractual obligations?) and creates the same level of debate and outrage.
Personally I’m in Kuss’s corner – it’d be a great story & well deserved. Jumbo may well yet “do the right thing”. But if Kuss does win it’s only going to create a few more political headaches behind the scenes though. Can you imagine the potential sulking & dummy spitting in the Jumbo camp…..
If Jumbo don’t double down
If Jumbo don’t double down and protect Kuss’s jersey today, it’ll bring on the biggest shit storm of public opinion that cycling has seen since Lord Voldermart himself came out on Oprah.
Let’s forget Sepp Kuss and
Let’s forget Sepp Kuss and consider the business aspects here. First off, Jumbo appears to be losing the all-important PR battle. The carefully cultivated, nice guy images of Roglič and Vingegaard are starting to look more like the ruthlessness of one L.A. But that might be the least of it. What riders with any aspiriations of winning a race now and then are going to want to ride for Jumbo if Kuss doesn’t win now given how his supposed “team”mates hung him out to dry on successive mountain stages? And how many super domestiques are there out there who would want to sign for a team for which you are expected to give all but guaranteed you’ll never get anything back?
All this talk means JV aren’t
All this talk means JV aren’t having to answer questions about how they are so far ahead of the competition everywhere which is the question that should be being asked as when we’ve seen dominance like this in the past it hasn’t been through legal methods.
Moments of maddening
Moments of maddening motornormativity #3,426: on the school run, a driver has parked his large van diagonally – front end in the road, rear end taking up most of the pavement. The open rear door is taking up the rest of the pavement. He sees us approaching and makes a show of closing the door for us. We pass, and he mutters under his breath “well, say thank you then”.
quiff wrote:
I had a driver do that to me when I was crossing a zebra and they hadn’t expected me to which involved them having to slam on their brakes.
“Why yes, thank you for not murdering me”
hawkinspeter wrote:
I made a decision a long time ago not to thank drivers for stopping if I’m crossing at a zebra. I mean, that’s what they’re supposed to do! I don’t expect a pedestrian to thank me for stopping at one if I’m on wheels, either.
brooksby wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on that one, I tend to come down in favour of saying thank you; after all, the waiter is supposed to bring me my dinner, the nurse is supposed to give me my flu shot, the bin man is supposed to empty my bins, I still say thank you to them. I actually even wave thank you on pelican crossings, I don’t regard it as “thank you for not killing me/not breaking the law” but just in acknowledgement that they have had a little time added to their journey (albeit mandatorily) for my convenience.
Like you, I certainly don’t expect thanks for stopping at a zebra, but when I do get it it does just brighten the day up a little bit at no cost to the person saying thank you, so…
I now draw the line at
I now draw the line at thanking dog walkers for restraining their hounds from jumping up at me as I ride past on the local shared use path… had a “thanks would have been nice” the other day but FFS it’s the least they could do.
Hmm… I’m with you in
Hmm… I’m with you in practice (enlightened self-interest – human interactions especially when cheerful interactions make me happier). However surely a closer analogy would be thanking the waiter for not mistiming and pouring your soup all over you?
My rule of thumb is, the ones
My rule of thumb is, the ones who approach at a sensible speed and slow in anticipation of me crossing a zebra get a little wave. The ones who screech to a last minute stop and look irritated for having to do so just get a raised eyebrow. I figure pelicans add an extra step between pedestrian and driver, so it’s never occurred to me to do anything. [EDIT: in fact, perhaps most drivers should be thanking pedestrians at pelicans – we’ve had to wait for the convenience of [n] drivers before the lights change.]
Another unbelievable incident seen yesterday: 4 or 5 cars are queuing behind a bus at a bus stop in a 20 zone. The queue straddles a zebra crossing. Driver at back of queue sees there is no oncoming traffic, accelerates at speed past the queue and bus, on wrong side of road through zebra crossing and past a junction.
Rendel Harris wrote:
For me, it boils down to whether someone is performing a service for me, such as a waiter, nurse, bin person etc. or whether someone is simply following the mandatory rules. If a driver stops before someone has started crossing a zebra and politely waves them across, then that would be worthy of a thanks, but otherwise just stopping at a zebra or red light would be the minimum expected behaviour – not worthy of a thanks.
brooksby wrote:
Funnily enough, I’ve had pedestrians thank me for stopping at the zebra just before the suspension bridge (Leigh Woods side). It might have something to do with me going quite quickly and having to slam on the brakes to stop in time. Mind you, I’ve also had pedestrians elsewhere apologise for them causing me to stop at a zebra on a bike.
I do thank drivers if they’re courteous such as moving to allow more space for filtering (an especially noble act as it involves them being aware of filtering traffic behind them and how their road position isn’t helpful) or deliberately letting me out of a turning etc.
hawkinspeter wrote:
How many pedestrians have sworn at you for not stopping for them on the raised traffic table which isn’t a crossing, on the other side of the Suspension Bridge? In my case, quite a few…
brooksby wrote:
No-one has, but I think all the times I’ve gone across that, there’s been significant vehicle traffic, so I haven’t been the main obstacle to them. Thinking about it, they should make that a zebra or pelican as there’s paths leading to and from it.
hawkinspeter wrote:
More than that, it has textured paving at each end of the table which tells visually impaired people that it is a crossing…
See this quite a lot on
See this quite a lot on raised “crossings” in Hyde Park – as far as I can tell, they don’t afford pedestrians priority to cross, but I have had a few people screech to a halt in front of me for them.
E.g. https://goo.gl/maps/RZjhtbMyv9JrH3PD9
Edit: just spotted on Streetview there are “raised pedestrian crossing” warning signs. I’m now a bit confused. Do pedestrians in fact have priority here after all? The road markings just suggest speed hump, not crossing.
https://goo.gl/maps/BgjyrU4931R6bSNY7
Thanks!
Thanks!
Getting very confused
Getting very confused flitting around various comments pages. I think we need a disambiguation page. ‘JV’ redirects here. JV could refer to:
quiff wrote:
Don’t forget to add Jay Vine, Jonathan Vaughters and Jens Voight to the mix…
Rendel Harris wrote:
And James V (HRH)
Cyclists and tank.
Cyclists and tank.
Loads of comments about the cyclist being where they should be. Rolleyes
Apparently an IFV not a tank
Hirsute wrote:
Yes to both.
Challenger 2 with full armour is 72 ton apparently so many roads can’t deal with that. APC or IFV in the range 7 – 16 ton so much easier on the highway..
A pair of Vainqueurs
A pair of Vainqueurs
I’m gonna play devil’s
I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here. My initial reaction to the TJV controversy on the Angliru is certainly different to that of many people it seems.
Yes, Sepp Kuss should be given a fair crack and as the leader his position should be respected by the team. However, Jumbo-Visma have played a blinder in regards to their GC dominance and look set to make a success out of the “multiple leaders” card when so many others have failed.
With two big names, and probably egos in 2nd and 3rd, it more often than not proves catastrophic when it comes to GC battles, with teammates refusing to help each other from the first kilometre. Somehow JV have managed to keep everyone in check up until they are effectively assured of the result, before letting their riders battle it out for themselves. The riders have managed to maintain a sense of comaraderie and bravado right up until everything is effectively secured.
I don’t believe for one minute that Roglic and Vingegaard do not want to see their teammate and faithful domestique win, but they are also racers themselves, so also want to win themselves. For a team stuck between a rock and a hard place, their actions are actually as fair as possible, on balance. Only a complete disaster involving all three riders will stop the red jersey belonging to a Jumbo rider. And the team have waited until that certainty to let their own riders race each other.
It’s just unfortunate that we spectators are a fickle bunch, and would forego the prospect of entertainment at this stage in favour of a vaguely implied gentleman’s agreement that has never been before tested.
There is one caveat to this, and that there is still an ITT to go. Kuss did well last week in red but Roglic is by far the strongest at that discipline. Even if Roglic did hold station he still could easily overturn the pre-Angliru defecit in a time trial to take red anyway. Unless JV force the stage on today’s final mountain stage, and get Kuss to the final KM first and alone to take a decent margin of victory, I genuinely think Kuss can’t win whilst Roglic is in the race. From the moment JV went 1-2-3 on GC.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
There isn’t a TT to go, last week’s was the only ITT of the race. The final four days are mountains (today), flat, hilly and flat.
My bad, I thought there was
My bad, I thought there was another TT in the third week.
It would be a good argument
It would be a good argument if there was still an ITT to go.
Today is effectively the last day that the GC can take large chunks of time out of each other. The 2 flat stages and a hilly stage that the GC teams will probably control.
Quote:
Is that people misunderstanding when or which vehicles have priroty? Do they maybe think military vehicles have some sort of priority like a blue-light emergency vehicle?
Tanks to an extent have
Tanks to an extent have limited driver visibility, and there have been tales of incidents of vehicles who misjudge manouvres getting crushed. Also having a huge cannon pointing at your rear window must be enough for anyone to wish they had a brown interior.
Perhaps they’ve just thought
Perhaps they’ve just thought a bit? IDK about the UK but in other countries there have been incidents caused because the training (to be realistic) had involved the drivers of armoured vehicles being up for days, and they’d clearly lost some focus.
Also – if it’s the US forces driving there is very often (by policy!) close to no comeback for those in their forces who mess up at the expense of the locals. As we’ve been reminded of in the last few years.
brooksby wrote:
No, it’s that they’re very large and loud, and look even more imposing on a public highway. I live not far from Bovington and ride around here, most people regardless of what vehicle they’re in give them a very wide berth.
brooksby wrote:
Probably ex military who are expecting the tank to subdue the enemy and are dissapointed that the tank driver avoided the conflict but the tank drivers, like Orcadians have realised just how dangerous cyclists are
It’s all that talk of “sticky
It’s all that talk of “sticky bottles” that does it …
To an armour driver, a sticky bottle is normally a Molotov Cocktail or home-made napalm.
While not enough to cause serious damage on their own, its no fun driving when your vehicle is on fire and your looking through a 150mm long x 50mm high slot.
It’s also a technique that can be used to mark a vehicle for thermally guided weapons as the armour can take a while to cool to ambient.
RE: Not Near Miss Of The Day.
RE: Not Near Miss Of The Day…
If trainee tank drivers can do it, why the fudge can’t other drivers?!
Because there is an officer
Because there is an officer present and they would be on a charge without the usual excuses available.
Because the vehicle commander
Because the vehicle commander is also legally* responsible for the actions of the driver.
AFAIK an armoured vehicle cannot be driven on UK Public Highway without a commander being in the control position.
Drivers of armoured vehicles have extremely limited vision in all directions, and as such the vehicle commander is the drivers eyes and legally accountable for the drivers actions.
Back in the late 80s, I used to drive a Scimitar ARV, and also a 432 APC.
Never went to Bovington as I was RE and not RAC.
* legally in this case may mean military Law, which has differences from UK Law. The Law of the land in which the solider is operating in always comes first… and then comes the Military Law – which can be anything from being infront of the Officer Commanding (which is basically them acting as a magistrate) to full Courts Martial.
Oldfatgit wrote:
So to answer the point on X about “road tax for tracked vehicles” isn’t it that ours have rubber blocks in the tracks while the orcs T-## have all metal track as they don’t care?
Thanks for your service.
My grandfather also RE.
Not on ‘x’ so not sure what
Not on ‘x’ so not sure what the question is, so I’ll answer what I think it might be … all UKHMAF vehicles are exempt VED.
UK military tracked vehicles have (or used to have) rubber blocks imbedded in the tracks as this helped prevent wear on the road surfaces. These blocks are removable and would come off in the event of the shit hitting the fan.
Un-shod tracks cause a lot of score damage to the road surface – you’ll see what I mean if ever you see civilian excavators on building sites as they tend not to have the rubber pads.
As for the others not caring – probably.
Someone please think of the
Someone please think of the drivers
Is your child walking to school? Do they know that listening to music through headphones can be dangerous?
https://twitter.com/Kentroadsafety/status/1702201515635601900
I wondered about a month back
I wondered about a month back what was happening about the Reading cycle hub. Checked the internet and nothing new was popping up. Ah well, would have been nice…
Looks like I might have to invest in the angle grinder resistant D lock after all…
ktache wrote:
Richard Ayoade lives at the
Richard Ayoade lives at the bottom of my (roughly 2% climb) road, regularly see him riding up it. Not saying he could take CF, JV and PR in the Alps but if they had a short-course event for Brompton riders with flamboyant cords and bright coloured macs as compulsory uniforms I reckon he’d be in with a shout.
Rendel Harris wrote:
One of his HSCB adverts was filmed in my road.
He gets about! I was
He gets about! I was delighted when we moved here some years ago to discover that he is a genuine cyclist and it wasn’t just for the adverts. He rides his children to school as well, which is a very welcome sight in an area clogged with Wankpanzer school runners.
Sadly we were on holiday at
Sadly we were on holiday at the time, so missed the filming.
It would appear that the tank
It would appear that the tank story is quite timely.
Just got back from my morning dog walk, and there were several wannabe tank drivers out practicing – peering out of their misted up windows via a small, hastily wiped, clear patch of windscreen.
Strangely, none of them were driving wankpanzers – maybe that comes when they’ve graduated…?
Councillor urges police to
Councillor urges police to charge “tourist cyclists” coming on cruise liners and “running around unsafe”
what’s going on? Are the tourists getting off their bikes and then running around like headless chickens? More investigation seems necessary.