Cyclists divided over video of van driver failing to wait for father and child on busy road; Thibaut Pinot: “The first thing I’ll sell is the turbo trainer”; Police target red light jumping cyclists; Why don’t you use cycle lanes? + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Why don’t cyclists use the cycle lanes? Part 2,967
My morning ride on the new 1.25 Million pounds cycle lane ……😳😳😳@Sustrans did you help design this and and give advice ? How much did you receive for this monstrosity? pic.twitter.com/RsfcEU5YhC
— Ediz (@ediz1975) January 11, 2023
To be fair, I’m not sure all the parked cars were included in Sustrans’ designs for the recently opened cycle lane in Enfield…
Part 2 pic.twitter.com/1QSQ5ym6UP
— Ediz (@ediz1975) January 11, 2023
Thibaut Pinot: “The first thing I’ll sell is the turbo trainer”
It’s fair to say that Thibaut Pinot’s announcement yesterday that he plans to retire at the end of 2023 has sent the cycling world into a period of mourning.
And it’s easy to see why. Throughout the 2010s – a decade dominated by the relentless, robotic rhythms of the Sky train in the grand tours – Pinot stood out as one of the sport’s great, lost romantics who, like the French heroes of the increasingly distant past, raced on feel and with (dare I say it) panache. And who, most importantly, appeared human.
> Thibaut Pinot announces he will retire from cycling at the end of 2023
That caricature of Pinot as cycling’s last romantic (and, despite all the teary abandons and photos with his goats, it is still a caricature) stems from the Groupama-FDJ rider’s striking relatability and understand that there’s life beyond racing your bike – something underlined by his plans for the future, as told to L’Équipe in their cover story on the 32-year-old’s retirement.
Front page news in France #Pinot pic.twitter.com/gwG3LOhCmS
— Peter Cossins (@petercossins) January 13, 2023
“The first thing I’ll sell is the turbo trainer,” Pinot told the newspaper. Very relatable.
“Cycling’s taken up a third of my life,” he continued. “I want to focus on my other passion – animals and nature. I’ve always wanted to use what nature gives us to make things, honey, grow fruit and vegetables. I’ll open a guesthouse. Do some trail running & cross-country skiing, which’ll help my hyperactivity.”
On the way to victory on the Tourmalet at the 2019 Tour (A.S.O./Thomas Maheux)
Reflecting on his dramatic abandon at the 2019 Tour de France, when he appeared on the cusp of ending his country’s then-34-year drought at their home grand tour, Pinot once again illustrates why he’s not Chris Froome, or Tadej Pogačar.
“If I’m able to live the life I dream of, it’s also because I didn’t win the 2019 Tour,” he says.
“My life would have changed too much, which is why I have no regrets. I never wanted to have the life of a champion. I would have become a public figure, really famous, and I didn’t want that.”
Thibaut Pinot 🇫🇷 …2022 ➡️ 2024 👋😘🐐 pic.twitter.com/fMsEFl6YAP
— Pro Cycling Trumps (@procycletrumps) January 13, 2023
While Groupama-FDJ boss Marc Madiot – in typical Madiot fashion – reckons Pinot’s 2019 Tour was his “unfinished symphony”, the Tour of Lombardy winner’s main goal for 2023 will swell the heart of every cycling romantic: the Giro d’Italia.
“Even though I’ve only raced it twice, the Giro is the most beautiful race for me. I can’t finish my Giro story with an abandon in an ambulance,” he says.
A love for the Giro and a hatred of turbo trainers? Again, a man after my own heart.
While Pinot’s announcement this week has prompted fans and the media to reflect on a cycling life less ordinary, I’m sure there’ll be plenty of drama, goat photos, and battered car panels left to nourish our romantic urges throughout 2023…
Quick, someone ring Netflix, Geraint has come up with a title for their new show
G’s Ride to Survive 🥵🤣 https://t.co/NEDY8Wk6Nc
— Geraint Thomas (@GeraintThomas86) January 12, 2023
Well, at least it would still be better than ‘Tour de Force’ or something like that…
“Ensuring the safety of all vulnerable road users”: Dublin police fine 16 cyclists in operation targeting red light jumpers and bikes without lights
Gardaí in Dublin city centre carried out an operation earlier this week targeting cyclists jumping red lights and riding without front and rear lights – and issued fines to 16 cyclists in the process.
A tweet from An Garda Síochána’s traffic team said that the operation was about “ensuring the safety of all vulnerable road users”.
Gardaí nationwide work day-to-day ensuring the safety of all vulnerable road users.
Kilmainham & Kevin Street Gardaí on patrol in Dublin City Centre last night issued fines to 16 cyclists for breaking a red light or not having front/rear bike lighting.#SaferRoads pic.twitter.com/kC4LFTuXlv
— An Garda Síochána (@GardaTraffic) January 11, 2023
As Sticky Bottle pointed out, just before Christmas it emerged that only 71 drivers had been convicted in 2022 of dangerously overtaking a cyclist.
Needless to say – just like a similar cyclist-targeting operation carried out by the Met in Hackney last year – the Gardaí’s attempt to protect vulnerable road users divided those on Twitter:
Waiting to see your tweet where you catch drivers dangerously passing cyclists.
— Pauric (@pward82) January 12, 2023
Can ye do something like this but for cars??? 4 cars went through a red light the morning as I was trying to cross at the green pedestrian crossing… fine because I can see but if I was blind I was fucked 🥲
— Dearbhla Duff (@DearbhlaDuff) January 11, 2023
When a cyclist reported a driver who close-passed her you said:
“You don’t know if the driver’s having a bad day”.
— Adespoto (@Adespoto3) January 11, 2023
While on my bike in a protected cycle lane, a car mounted the kerb and ran me over.
Got all their details and witness details and once out of the hospital went to the gardai“Sure what do you want us to do, you have their insurance”
Gardai – taking the lazy route
— Colm Malone (@pandaflop1) January 11, 2023
I have every sympathy for cyclists negotiating city traffic but they have to realise the the rules of the road apply to them also. Particularly that red means stop.
— Michael Rooney (@mikejrooney) January 11, 2023
Great, plenty more to be prosecuted !!
— Padraig McGowan (@PadraigMcGowan) January 11, 2023
Long overdue..Cyclists seem to totally ignore red lights. If they use the roads they need to obey the rules
— T.Max🏴☠️ (@TinaMax8) January 11, 2023
Of course cyclists can do wrong.
But you have to look at what’s the greatest risk on our roads.
Ask yourself this, how many people did cyclists kill in Ireland in 2022?
Now,how many people did motorists kill in the same period?
We must deal with the greatest risk as priority
— Cycling In Kilkenny 🇮🇪🇪🇺 (@Cabaal) January 11, 2023
> Police in Hackney catch 18 red light jumping cyclists in 90 minutes
“Can we expect a valet service?” Former pro mountain biker charged £75 to bring bike on ferry
Dear @BrittanyFerries I’m just wondering how you justify charging £75 to carry a push bike from Portsmouth to Santander. Can we expect a valet service? 😉
— lee craigie (@leecraigie_) January 12, 2023
‘Ow much?
According to former pro mountain biker and Active Nation commissioner for Scotland Lee Craigie, Brittany Ferries did at least get back to her, with what could charitably be described as a load of old cobblers.
“Like most major transport companies today our pricing changes with demand and so naturally during peak periods, or on sailings where demand increases, our prices can vary,” the company said.
“There are several factors that need to be taken into consideration when different passenger types travel on a ferry and there is an additional fee for a bicycle over a foot passenger fare.
“For instance, cyclists have a separate check-in and route through port, requiring different facilities than foot passengers.
“Once on board, garage space is allocated for bicycles, reducing the space for other vehicle types, and there is a member of crew who will be assigned to directing and safely storing the bicycles for transit, which of course takes additional time over a foot passenger or even a car.”
Of course…
Translation, we have a monopoly on this route so will do what we want. 🤬
— NickityNackered🔴🚴♂️⚽️🏏🇿🇦🇬🇧 (@goonercyclist) January 12, 2023
LOL . . . . A crew member ‘points’ at a railing, cyclists then locks bike to said railing . . . . that’s it !!! Remind me never to travel with Brittany Ferries @BrittanyFerries
— cycletothesea (@cycletothesea) January 13, 2023
An entertaining load of @&£@?#% from @BrittanyFerries … https://t.co/xSVnk2sM25
— Shivaji Shiva (@ShivajiShivaLaw) January 12, 2023
Britain’s most flooded cycleways, round two
Yesterday saw the start of the most anticipated competition of the year (and no, I don’t mean the road.cc Recommends awards) – the Official Live Blog Flooded Cycleway Cup!
On Thursday’s blog, Dunham Massey in Trafford, Greater Manchester, made a strong start, roaring ahead with no fewer than three underwater sections.
But it faces stiff competition from Bristol’s infamous ‘Lawrence Hill Lido’ (put forward by road.cc reader hawkinspeter), which was in the news last week for its spectacular Olympic swimming pool-like depths, the result of a damaged pipe caused by, the council says, a tree root ingress.
But what about an outsider like the NCN 6 in Northampton? A victim of regular flooding when the adjacent River Nene is high, reader Martin Baker reckons it could go all the way.
Of course, the season is still young, and there are plenty of flooded cycleways for us to wade through before we crown a river- I mean winner…
Keep sending us your local favourites!
Clevedon’s “driving lane for drink drivers” ridiculed, as local Conservatives play anti-cycling bingo with comments about “high speed lycra clad cyclists” posing a danger to children
North Somerset Council has been ‘making waves’ with new road markings on Clevedon seafront 🌊😅
What do you make of them? 🤷
📸: Save Our Seafront pic.twitter.com/yCK0wAxRom
— The RAC (@TheRAC_UK) January 10, 2023
The ongoing work to improve active travel in the Somerset seaside town of Clevedon has once again made the headlines this week, with the new one-way street for motor vehicles along the promenade – featuring “wobbly lines” designed to reduce speed – ridiculed in the national press for turning the town into “Balamory from hell”.
North Somerset Council’s plans to improve Hill Road and The Beach in Clevedon include the creation of a bidirectional cycle lane, new cycle parking provision, widening the pavement along the seafront, and building parklets outside cafés.
However, the scheme, which is currently close to completion and received majority support following a public consultation, has been the subject of a long, high-profile campaign, led by Tory MP and former cabinet minister Liam Fox, aiming to see it scrapped.
The current backlash against the new road layout on the seafront – which has been converted to a one-way street to allow for the installation of the bike lane – has seen its wavy lines labelled a “driving lane for drink drivers”, while others have dubbed it “ridiculous” and a “snake lane”.
North Somerset Council says the wavy lines are “a design feature to reduce the potential abuse of parking at these locations and help make the road feel narrower, which is a technique used to slow traffic speeds.”
“A wavy line provides uncertainty to the driver and is proven to help reduce unwanted parking,” a council spokesperson said.
Nevertheless, the storm in an antiquated tea cup has allowed the opponents of the scheme to renew their campaign with a fresh wave of petitions claiming the unusual layout will make the seafront more dangerous and harm businesses.
> Controversial cycle lane roadworks blamed for “killing Christmas trade”
“A vast amount of public money is being spent to solve a problem which does not actually exist,” says local MP Fox about a road on which a cyclist sustained critical injuries in a collision involving a driver in September 2020.
“We do not have major road safety issues on Clevedon seafront at present, despite it being a Victorian amenity. We will, however, have safety issues in the future as a result of the incompetent plans of the current North Somerset Council.
“The project is not popular, not safe, not affordable, not properly consulted upon and not necessary. It damages historic amenity, will disadvantage visitors, especially the elderly, will disrupt local trade and impede access to local residents.”
While safety, access, and local trade are all at the top of Mr Fox’s priorities, somebody needs to tell his party, who used the controversial wavy lines to indulge in a spot of anti-cycling bingo concerning the apparent danger posed to children by “high speed lycra clad cyclists”:
Meanwhile, in Bradley Stoke…
Banksy has turned his attention to active travel, it seems… (Or should that be SaxoBanksy? I’ll get my coat.)
Cyclist James, who captured these images of the new sign (compete with expertly positioned googly eyes), hopes it will help to improve the attitudes of motorists in the South Gloucestershire town, especially after he was on the receiving end of this shockingly close overtake – while dressed as Santa, I may add – on the approach to that very roundabout last month:
Bath’s bicycle mayor says Kidical Mass ride removed from climate festival by council because “it is considered a political event”
I got asked at my talk @Active_ATA if the council supports #Kidicalmass and if they help us get the word out.
The answer is “no”; the ride was deemed ‘political’ and therefore removed from the council’s climate and biodiversity festival 🤔https://t.co/S0rSjkfNKe
— Saskia Heijltjes – @saskia@toot.community (@SaskiaHeijltjes) January 12, 2023
Saskia Heijltjes, who was appointed in October 2021 as Bath’s first bicycle mayor, claimed this week that Bath and North East Somerset Council removed a Kidical Mass ride from a climate festival last Autumn because it was deemed a “political” event.
Heijltjes tweeted yesterday that she was asked during a talk at the University of Westminster’s Active Travel Academy if the local authority supported and helped promote Kidical Mass, which sees families ride together to campaign for safe streets.
“The answer is ‘no’,” she wrote. “The ride was deemed ‘political’ and therefore removed from the council’s Climate and Biodiversity festival.”
Apparently!
— Saskia Heijltjes – @saskia@toot.community (@SaskiaHeijltjes) January 12, 2023
As Heijltjes notes, a Kidical Mass ride was originally slated to form part of the festival in late September and early October, advertised by the council as a “collaborative programme of events that showcase, inspire and connect organisations, residents and communities across Bath and North East Somerset”.
However, it was later removed by the organisers because, Kidical Mass says, “it is considered a political event” and policed under the category of “protests and marches”.
Kidical Mass Bath, on the other hand, say they are “an apolitical, community-led campaign, and will continue to demand the council deliver what they promised for residents.”
This just means that they are being challenged on Active Travel and it makes them feel uncomfortable. If they were supportive and encouraging they wouldn’t see Kiddical Mass Rides in this light. Afterall they have cross party support. @allpartycycling
— Richard M (@Richard16878535) January 12, 2023
World Mountain Bike Chariot Racing Championships cancelled due to lack of numbers
Well, that’s my weekend ruined.
The world mountain bike chariot racing championships – which is every bit as mad as it sounds – was set to take place tomorrow in its traditional home of Llanwrtyd Wells, the purported smallest town in Britain.
The annual championships, described by the organisers as “Ben Hur with mountain bikes”, see teams of two cyclists (usually in silly clothing) race around the town’s Manor Adventure Centre – all while dragging along their mate, sitting proudly in a special Roman-style chariot.
And if you don’t believe me, here’s a video of the 2021 event:
Brilliant.
Unfortunately, the organisers have been forced to cancel the championships this year due to a lack of entries and the prohibitive costs of running the event.
“Owing to a lack of people entering the chariot racing this weekend, it has become unviable for us to run the event, so regretfully it will not be taking place as advertised,” the Neuadd Arms Hotel, which helps run the event, posted on its Facebook page.
“This also applies to the toga party in the evening as well.”
Now I’m really annoyed.
The organisers continued: “We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause if people have made arrangements, but we can’t afford to run events at a loss in the current economic circumstances.”
Hopefully, the championships will return, in all their mad Roman glory, in 2024. They better – as I promised Dan we’d enter a road.cc team…
Set your alarms…
Starting Monday, we’ll reveal which of the bikes, components, accessories & items of clothing we’ve reviewed over the past year are the absolute best. Here’s what you can expect to see… https://t.co/zc8hcaQA62 #cycling pic.twitter.com/q6zlKmj7Ep
— road.cc (@roadcc) January 11, 2023
“One of those give and take situations”: Readers react to van driver failing to stop and narrowly passing cyclist
This morning’s clip, featuring a cyclist and a van driver passing each other on a narrow street (which is one-way for motor vehicles and bidirectional for cyclists), has divided opinion in the comments as much as it did on Twitter.
Here’s a selection of some of our readers’ thoughts on the topic du jour:
mitsky: “I face this (without the child), as do most cyclists, on a daily basis. I don’t mind if the driver is very slow/cautious but have reported ones who don’t slow down or are aggressive/closer than I’m comfortable with.
“The way I look at this clip and most situations is: imagine the centre of the road have broken lines marking the two way lanes. In that case the driver of the vehicle that has to cross the line (due to the parked cars) needs to give way to the vehicle (cyclist) that doesn’t.
“This can easily be seen to be the case here. Even without the lines on the road, the van driver is straddling the middle of the road. I appreciate that this case has been declared as one way and two directional for cyclists but the same principle should apply for safety.”
Awavey: “For me the cyclist has passed a better gap (whilst clearly aware of the oncoming van) that they would have been advised to use, then everyone is happy and passes no issue.
“This is one of those give and take situations I feel, and I can assure you I’m one of those riders who will ride at cars in prime and head on at drivers who refuse to yield and drive past gaps they could fit in these situations normally. This one I wouldn’t have.”
HarrogateSpa: “Apply the hierarchy of road users. The driver can do the greatest harm, so has the greatest responsibility to take care, and should cede priority.”
Secret_squirrel: “Video starts too late for full context, but from what we can see the van was already passing parked cars, so the initial decision to proceed or dive in seems to be on the cyclist. Hard to tell if the two gaps the van might have used were useful at all.
“My general feel is that both could have been more accommodating. Deffo nothing like as clear cut as the earlier viral incidents.”
Jimmy Ray Will: “I think the van is OK here. Both van and cyclist were well established in the road, so it’s hard to say if anyone had priority. Although, the cyclist isn’t encroaching on the van’s ‘side’ of the road and is the more vulnerable road user, so you would have to argue they are in the driving seat.
“However, both cyclist and van driver had opportunities to pull in. The cyclist had the first and more significant space to pull in to, but elected not to do so. That to me signals that the cyclist was comfortable with the space available and the van driver was OK to proceed as they did.”
Right, that’s it – I’m away for a quick blast on the turbo trainer (forgive me, Thibaut Pinot). Have a good weekend, everyone!
“When you turn roads into car parks you put other road users at risk”: Cyclists divided over video of van driver failing to wait for father and child on busy road
It seems as if the ‘motorist versus child on bike: who should give way?’ debate is becoming something of a monthly occurrence these days.
The first few weeks of November, for example, were dominated by the viral clip of a driver refusing to stop before narrowly passing an oncoming five-year-old cyclist, which sparked a hotly contested debate that made it all the way to Jeremy Vine’s Channel 5 show and the former Chancellor of the Exchequer (I know, who hasn’t been Chancellor lately?) Sajid Javid.
And then, a month later, another strikingly similar video popped up on the live blog, this time depicting a taxi driver ploughing straight ahead as a young cyclist passed… and on a school street too.
One of #Londonsfinest showing they have no Knowledge of how to pass kids safely and no Knowledge of what streets they are allowed to drive down. @azb2019 @theJeremyVine @markandcharlie pic.twitter.com/8obKBkAs8F
— Greg N (@n00dles71) November 30, 2022
And now, as we enter January’s sluggish middle section, and just like clockwork, we’ve been treated again to another round of viral video déjà vu.
Posting the following clip of a van driver and cyclist (with a child) narrowly passing each other on a London street made narrow by the two lines of parked cars, safe cycling campaigner Lauren asked: “Should the van have waited here and given the father and child more space? That would have been the safest thing to do.”
Should the van have waited here and given the father and child more space? 🤔 That would have been the safest thing to do. pic.twitter.com/358nfq78Vs
— Lauren O’Brien (@laurencyclist) January 12, 2023
The video has, inevitably, divided opinion – though this time even amongst cyclist themselves.
While several commenters were critical of the motorist’s driving…
Without a doubt yes.
One way to force this is to cycle further out, which he should do to be out of the door zone.
However this can lead to a game of chicken.— CycleGaz™ (@cyclegaz) January 12, 2023
Yes – the van had a gap to pull into.
— Dobbo76 (@Dobbo761) January 12, 2023
Who would be getting out of the way if I was driving my battered old Landrover down there? The van driver, because he’s required to wait. It’s only because the cyclist in front is a cyclist, that he barrels through. Shameful behaviour.
— CyclingMikey (@MikeyCycling) January 12, 2023
Yes, I faced exactly this situation this morning and took the primary position and at the last possible moment the van stopped … should have stopped 50m earlier
— Richard Leeming (@RM_Leeming) January 12, 2023
… Others questioned the cyclist’s actions, or reckoned that the situation was well-negotiated by both:
TBF the cyclist looks like they had more space and opportunity to pull in and wait for the van.
— Andrew Porter @defsdoor@ruby.social (@defsdoor) January 12, 2023
No, there was plenty of space and it slowed and gave them more space.
— Simon Warren (@100Climbs) January 13, 2023
Personally, had I been a cyclist in this situation, I would have pulled into the what appears to be a reasonably large safe opening on the left. There doesn’t appear to be any quite large enough for the van to comfortably pull in. Van could have slowed a bit more though.
— Viva Les Vegas ٥٣٧ (@viva_les_vegas) January 13, 2023
No I think that’s fine
— Aidan Somerville (@somerville73) January 12, 2023
Why do Cyclists like to cause problems that don’t exist https://t.co/yWBZ6zVPKh
— 🚴♀️🚴♀️ Jenny 🚴♀️🚴♀️ (@jen_moxon) January 12, 2023
Some, however, including Lauren herself, noted a separate, and perhaps more pertinent, in-built safety issue responsible for creating stand-offs like the one in the video:
Added question – is the problem here that actually there is too much parking available to cars? Should we really be giving cars this much availability to park in LDN?
— Lauren O’Brien (@laurencyclist) January 12, 2023
The city planners think they’re being very clever by using cars to calm traffic in this way. As the vid demonstrates, it screws everyone else.
— Oliver Killick 🇺🇦 🏳️🌈💉 (@ollykilo) January 12, 2023
When you turn roads into car parks you put other road users at risk. Removing all the cars on one side of the street would solve the problem. https://t.co/e9IJwCbrxC
— Bill Majrowski (@BillMajrowski) January 12, 2023
Roads like this need one line of parked cars taking out and replacing with a safe, separate cycle lanes. No more stressful, life-or-death ‘negotiations’ like this, no more doorings for cyclists.
— Hoxton Low Traffic Neighbourhood – Needed! (@LTNHoxtonSt) January 13, 2023
13 January 2023, 09:54
13 January 2023, 09:54
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Latest Comments
I'm glad I had my trousers on. If I hadn't I might have been arrested.
Who was responsible for organising the prizes on Bullseye? Tonight's star prize was a luxury fitted kitchen. How are you supposed to split that between two contestants? Absolutely ridiculous.
Oh sir! sir! Johnnys riding his bike without a helmet, he’s going to die when he falls off!, Yes what a silly boy he is ! Anyway jump in the car we’re going to be late for school and I hope no one gets in my way especially bleeding cyclists!! I wonder if AI will see what fools we are..
It's more about the nomex suit, car helmet and five point harnesses (with HANS), but "reply" ain't what it used to be...
'Gotten' ? The word is 'become', as in, I have become sick of seeing 'gotten'.
OK, all the stuff I said elsewhere on this thread in defence of helmets, I take it all back. I'd sooner be seen as an anti-lidder than be associated with that heap of steaming ordure.
Exactly my thoughts. A real shame, they're amazing bikes, same as Islabikes. Really sad to hear the news. Having said that, we probably didn't do enough to help them. My son had one Islabike and two Frogs, all second hand that we resold for about the same amount.
I couldn't agree more, and when we have all that everywhere I might think about leaving off the helmet, but until then if I have to share the road with huge fast-moving chunks of metal, many of them piloted by persons of limited intelligence and even less self control, I'm going to keep the lid, which even Burt agrees can "probably" offer some protection from injury.
And the irony is that helmet promotion and mandation kills lots of people and they don't reduce the death rate of cyclists. The benefits of cycling vastly outweigh the risks, and helmet promotion and mandation deter cycling (the only proven effect) so those deterred lose those benefits and die earlier.
I see Mont Pythons upper class twits have been replaced by male anti helmet twits who probably ride under 10000 km/year while wearing bike gloves, ladies bib capris, power meters to register the watts they dont produce ,gps because they are easily lost on a tiny island, a mobile phone to call the wifey in case the ride gets too hilly or wet or fast or windy, all while complaining their tushy hurts. They always ask for proof..you could crash a few times on purpose without and with a helmet and send us the pictures. Do pros complain about helmets?..if you rode in a country with sun you would know that styrofoam actually keeps your head cool.. Ps ice hockey players say they dont need mouthguards..ask them to smile
91 thoughts on “Cyclists divided over video of van driver failing to wait for father and child on busy road; Thibaut Pinot: “The first thing I’ll sell is the turbo trainer”; Police target red light jumping cyclists; Why don’t you use cycle lanes? + more on the live blog”
I would have pulled in as the
I would have pulled in as the cammer.
I believe this is a contra flow too for the cyclists, so that needs to be taken into account.
Is there a rule that
Is there a rule that contraflow cyclists have to give way?
I don’t know – what are the
I don’t know – what are the precise rules as opposed to a hierarchy concept?
I see hoarseman mentions rule 163.
I don’t think the hierarchy automatically gives me priority at a pinch point or narrow road if someone else is already established before I get there.
Agree. The cammer should have
Agree. The cammer should have pulled into the gap. There’s not enough footage to determine if the cyclist with the kid on the back should have done too, but likely to be the case.
Both cyclists are also way too close to the parked cars. If a door opened or someone stepped out, then they could find themselves under the wheels of the van.
It’s poor infrastructure that encourages cyclists to put themselves in a precarious position.
Having said all that. As a driver, I would have fully stopped the moment it appeared the cyclists were not going to wait in the gap. No matter who had priority, the danger here was created by the van driver, so they have a greater responsibilty to minimise the risk.
If I was the van driver, I
If I was the van driver, I would have pulled over or stopped for a few seconds to let the bikes pass.
If I were the cyclist, I would have pulled in to the gap and allowed the van through if I was uncomfortable with the gap / their speed.
My caution would have been increased as from the parked cars that appears to be one of these cycle contraflows that are often poorly indicated and have no segregation.
Maybe in an ideal world the
Maybe in an ideal world the van would have stopped, but I think the cyclist fully expected the van to continue and took the decision to proceed into that situation. My main concern with the van’s driving is that at one point they appear to veer towards the cyclist, causing the cyclist to take evasive action.
I think there is a very
I think there is a very simple criterion which may be applied in many of these who is right/wrong situations.
If the driver did this on a driving test would it result in a fail?
The driving test is the Minimum standard you must achieve to be allowed to drive on the roads.
Fail the test and the DVLA does not think you are fit to be on the road.
I agree and would love for
I agree and would love for this principle to apply to all reports (with video evidence) to the police of bad drivers.
I think the van is OK here.
I think the van is OK here.
Both van and cyclist were well established in the road, so its hard to say if anyone had priority. Although, the cyclist isn’t encroaching on the van’s ‘side’ of the road and is the more vulnerable road user, so yu would have to argue they are in the driving seat.
However, both cyclist and van driver had opportunities to pull in. The cyclist had the first and more significant space to pull in to, but elected not to do so. That to me signals that the cyclist was comfortable with the space available and the van driver was OK to proceed as they did.
Part of me says that both had
Part of me says that both had space to pull over, so equal culpability
Another part of me instinctively says that the larger vehicle needs to take more care over the more vulnerable road user
Most of me says that this would even register in the top 100 dangers I face in a typical ride.
Maybe, but in my experience
Maybe, but in my experience most drivers are prepared to drive at you in order to bully you out of the way. I don’t like that.
I sometimes try to be assertive and hold my ground. Most of time it’s ok, but some drivers would rather kill you than slow down.
I face this (without the
I face this (without the child), as do most cyclists, on a daily basis.
I don’t mind if the driver is very slow/cautious but have reported ones who don’t slow down or are aggressive/closer than I’m comfortable with.
The way I look at this clip and most situations is: imagine the centre of the road have broken lines marking the two way lanes.
In that case the driver of the vehicle that has to cross the line (due to the parked cars) needs to give way to the vehicle (cyclist) that doesn’t.
This can easily be seen to be the case here.
Even without the lines on the road, the van driver is straddling the middle of the road.
I appreciate that this case has been declared as one way and two directional for cyclists but the same principle should apply for safety.
The driver is straddling the
The driver is straddling the road on account of it being one way, so I don’t see how your argument from two way applies.
https://goo.gl/maps/X9wQ7D27bEEmHrgn6
The real question is who has priority in a contra flow situation ?
I don’t think the clip is long enough to work out for the first cyclist what the situation is but for the cammer, they did have a big gap to pull into with the van already established.
Apply the hierarchy of road
Apply the hierarchy of road users. The driver can do the greatest harm, so has the greatest responsibility to take care, and should cede priority.
hirsute wrote:
Personally, I cede priority if I’m cycling contraflow, but I have been known to unilaterally decide that contraflow cycling is allowed.
It’s not ideal, but I wouldn’t have expected the van to pull in.
mitsky wrote:
That’s not the way it works. It’s covered in the highway code rule 163: “give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road”
Note it says give way ‘before’ passing. Once you are actually passing, nobody has priority. It’s just treated as a narrow section of road, like a single track country lane.
Unfortunately, there is no guidance in the highway code regarding the passing of oncoming cyclists on narrow roads. I do think there should be a minimum passing distance for oncoming vehicles and guidance to stop and let the more vulnerable road user make their way past.
I can’t see much wrong with
I can’t see much wrong with that cycle lane apart from the fact that the high winds have blown some debris down on it and a bunch of arseholes have parked on it*, a quick run through with a street sweeper and some traffic wardens and it’ll be fine.
The Twitter poster Ediz is somewhat notorious: although he cycles he is vociferously pro-car and anti-LTN and anti-cycle lanes, he rather specialises in finding traffic jams in north London then posting them up as evidence of the problems caused by cycle lanes/LTNs, even if they’re miles away from either and/or in areas that were just as jammed pre-LTN/cycle lanes were installed, it’s best to take his video evidence with a skipful of salt.
*To be fair to the drivers (through gritted teeth), the presence of all those cones at the side of the lane seems to indicate that it has only just been completed and so perhaps the appropriate signage indicating that it’s a cycle lane and no parking is allowed has yet to be installed. It shouldn’t take a genius to know that you shouldn’t park there, but…
I was also rather surprised
I was also rather surprised to see Ediz quoted by road.cc, as my impression is that he is an active and aggressive anti-cycle infrastructure troll.
Can’t see his tweets as he
Can’t see his tweets as he blocked me for asking him a question a year or more ago.
Rendel Harris wrote:
I think the street sweeper has been and gone. The main carriageway looks very clear.
Another psycho on the roads.
Another psycho on the roads. All the time in the world to argue about being held up.
https://twitter.com/Northfieldcycl1/status/1613833534304669696
Same the door didn’t get mangled as in the nmotd on a green lane in the channel islands.
Only a warning letter for a
Only a warning letter for a brake check, then getting out of a running vehicle AND failing to apply the handbrake!! That could have been nasty.
But I have to say, from the footage, they did overtake with plenty of room and whilst the cyclist might have been indicating right, they were a long way back from the junction. There did appear to be room for the driver to make a safe pass, even if they really should have hung back.
It’s the driver who turned a minor over-reaction by the cyclist into a dangerous situation and they should have been punished.
I got the impression that
I got the impression that although a wide overtake they didn’t have the visibility to do that and that’s what the reaction was to.
Possibly, it’s difficult to
Possibly, it’s difficult to tell from wide angle camera footage. It didn’t look too bad to me, I’ve certainly had a lot worse.
Wide angle footage probably
Wide angle footage probably makes the junction seem further away than it was as well.
Someone recognised the road –
Someone recognised the road – rather straight !
https://goo.gl/maps/GWkWZGufuiJnCBbE6
There are long dashes and it is a bend but not really clear why the cyclist objected.
Although the driver must have been looking for trouble to stop that quickly.
I got overtaken by an SUV
I got overtaken by an SUV/pickup here – https://goo.gl/maps/97fYDwvkhUahMLSN6 – last night. Plenty of room, until the driver had to swerve to avoid the car coming round the basically blind bend…
I dont know whether to laugh
I dont know whether to laugh or cry at that one, the car rolling away is comedy, the warning letter isnt nearly enough for something that looked like common assault.
But sheesh talk about being triggered much, how do people get so wound up they react like that to a cyclist ?
And the overtake space might have looked enough but obviously the cyclist turning right is wanting to move right in the lane. Would have liked to see the bit before the pass though as that doesnt strike me as an instant reaction style reaction to passing like that.
Was thinking the same, I’ve
Was thinking the same, I’ve the impression how the clip started right on the overtake, that there was possibly a bit more to it than just that.
And not to imply the cyclist
And not to imply the cyclist did anything wrong prior at all.
it’s just that seemed a massive overreaction, even by crazy irrational driver standards,and from both occupants of the car too. Who within 10 secs of overtaking a cyclist seemingly in their mind with no issue and on their way, are stopping, looking almost to start a fight about it, from a driver who has completely lost self control cant even remember to put the handbrake on.
it’s difficult to hear what the driver is saying but I think the first thing he says is “what on earth is up with you” to the cyclist & then repeats that phrase at least two more times interspersed with more swearing.
That feels like the result of a longer sequence of events, than a one off instantaneous reaction from the overtake.
But who knows I once gave a driver who close passed me at speed, an upturned wtf style palm gesture, who then had to stop for a set of lights and spent the whole time shouting back threatening he was going to come beat me up for it, till I showed him the camera he was being videoed on.
Found the item but the video
Found the item but the video is now private.
https://road.cc/content/news/246199-near-miss-day-165-close-pass-followed-dooring-and-angry-exchange-because
Was the woman the passenger?
Was the woman the passenger? Why did she get up (I’m watching it with the sound off – was there perchance a cry of “Leave ‘im, Barry – he ain’t wurf it!”?).
The wife I imagine. Don’t
The wife I imagine. Don’t know why they got out – spoiling for a fight !
The footage isnt great to
The footage isnt great to determine this exactly, but it looks to me if the van is stopping, then the cyclist isnt getting past, they both cross each other at the only van shaped hole in that line of cars, the van cant get to that gap any quicker without accelerating, which isnt what you want. So wheres the van supposed to vanish out of the way to ?
For me the cyclist has passed a better gap, whilst clearly aware of the oncoming van that they would have been advised to use, then everyone is happy & passes no issue.
This is one of those give and take situations I feel, and I can assure you I’m one of those riders who will ride at cars in prime & head on at drivers who refuse to yield and drive past gaps they could fit in these situations normally. This one I wouldnt have.
Awavey wrote:
Pretty much this. Video starts too late for full context, but from what we can see the Van was already passing parked cars, so the initial decision to proceed or dive in seems to be on the cylist. Hard to tell if the 2 gaps the van might have used were useful at all.
My general feel is that both could have been more accomadating.
Deffo nothing like as clear cut as the earlier viral incidents.
My view is that on narrow
My view is that on narrow streets, the vehicle coming the other way is inevitably on my side of the road. How can it possibly have priority in that situation?
AidanR wrote:
It’s somewhat complicated here by the fact that it’s a one-way street with a cycle contraflow, so the van is never actually not on its own side of the road.
Sorry, I’m referring to the
Sorry, I’m referring to the usual situation of a two way street.
Because this scenario is a
Because this scenario is a one way street.
It does get complicated where someone overtakes a few parked cars where it can become ‘who got there first’. Although one thing that really annoys me is driver 3 pushing through on the wrong side with no view and no regard for those the other way correctly on their side of the road.
hirsute wrote:
Oo – oo! I can give an example of this
Bridge Road in Leigh Woods, outside Bristol but approaching the suspension bridge.
https://goo.gl/maps/mncptcBUpZBC9EFi8
So when I’m coming in, in the morning, there is a long queue of cars waiting to get over the suspension bridge to go into Bristol.
There are also, as you can see, parked cars along the right hand side of the road (from my point of view). So the parked cars are in the lane of the oncoming traffic and there isn’t room for any oncoming traffic to come through if a bike or a motorbike is filtering past the queue.
And yet, if I am filtering past the queue, not even passing into the other lane, for some reason it’s always me who loses the game of chicken and has to dive into a gap in the queue.
Even though, as I understood it, if I am in the gap first then they should be waiting for me to pass.
brooksby wrote:
I disagree. If you’re overtaking/filtering then you should cede priority to traffic coming the other way. I generally have a high tolerance for slipping through gaps, so I continue where there’s room, but pull in behind a stationary vehicle where the gap gets too small to allow oncoming traffic.
hawkinspeter wrote:
The cars coming the other way are also overtaking and are crossing the centre line to do so, the fact that they are overtaking parked cars is irrelevant.
Backladder wrote:
Well, overtaking parked cars is just the usual traffic flow on lots of roads, so I would consider they should be allowed to progress when I’m deliberately trying to progress quicker than the slow/stopped traffic on my side.
hawkinspeter wrote:
But whatabout (yes, I know) if I am going through there, and I’m on my side of the white line, before the oncoming car even appears round the bend at the bottom…?
brooksby wrote:
I don’t think the white lines mean much (they’re more guidelines than actual rules), so it depends on how safe I feel squeezing through gaps. However, I don’t usually look to overtake around that bend as there’s the magic paint on the inside, so I like to use that and scowl at all the drivers blocking parts of it.
hawkinspeter wrote:
I’d never filter going around the bend – I’d always use the painted lane (when someone in an SUV hasn’t drifted across into it…). I’m talking about the long straight downhill bit.
brooksby wrote:
That bit, I just overtake the stationary traffic, but slow down for oncoming traffic and pull in and stop if it gets too tight. By rights, you should have priority being on the correct side of the white line, but I think only cyclists are that precise about road positioning, so I try to let oncoming traffic continue. I do get beeped at on occasion where I think there’s enough room for me and the oncoming motorist thinks I’m chancing it.
brooksby wrote:
Oo – oo! I can give an example of this
Bridge Road in Leigh Woods, outside Bristol but approaching the suspension bridge.
https://goo.gl/maps/mncptcBUpZBC9EFi8
So when I’m coming in, in the morning, there is a long queue of cars waiting to get over the suspension bridge to go into Bristol.
— hirsute
I bet you don’t pay for crossing the bridge, either.
mattw wrote:
My favourite illegal maneouvre on my bike is to pass the bridge barriers using the oncoming lane when it’s clear as it’s so much quicker/easier than using the official bike lane/pavement/chicane. (Arguably safer as you don’t have to figure out who’s using the road first between a cyclist and two lanes of barrier controlled traffic)
https://goo.gl/maps/Cj1jSbvuYvEqvatr9
hawkinspeter wrote:
Doesn’t everybody (on a bike)?
brooksby wrote:
I’ve never seen other cyclists doing that.
Really? Huh…
Really? Huh…
brooksby wrote:
Are we talking about the same maneouvre?
In this picture, I’d be attempting to go where the oncoming black car is (though not when there’s cars coming through there). It’s great as you don’t need to slow down, so it’s easy to be ahead of the two cars possibly coming out of the barrier controlled lanes.
“Cyclists must dismount” …
“Cyclists must dismount” … Good … Goood!
To be fair they probably only designed it for cars of between one and six horsepower and I think they were a bit narrower.
chrisonatrike wrote:
I usually assume the sign is referring to using the walkway as the bike specific bit doesn’t make any sense to dismount as you’d walk it a few feet and then be aiming to get back on to rejoin the road. The walkway is barely wide enough for two pedestrians to pass, so cycling along there isn’t really feasible especially as it’s usually quite busy.
hawkinspeter wrote:
That wouldn’t stop quite a few folk looking thoughtfully at it (maybe at night / other time when there’s no-one there – or just on the map) and saying “y’know, we could increase our ‘miles of cycle infra provided’ numbers there…”
I think those dismount signs
I think those dismount signs are a hangover from Covid – they had signs telling people not to ride on the footway, signs telling pedestrians not to overtake other pedestrians on the footway, signs making each side of the bridge one way only, and (weirdly) signs explicitly telling people not to run on the roadway (people ‘jogging’ used to run on the roadway to avoid running up behind people on the do-not-overtake footways).
brooksby wrote:
I’ve seen a jogger using the road and getting beeped at by the held up cars behind them – wasn’t too long ago either. I don’t know why the drivers were getting pissy as there’s usually a hold up when they get over the bridge anyhow.
hawkinspeter wrote:
bEcAuSe ThE rOaD iS fOr CaRs!!
JustTryingToGetFromAtoB wrote
For that specific location, I’d side with the drivers on that – pedestrians should be using the walkway, although I doubt that you could jog along it due to all the other pedestrians and its narrowness. However, a jogger using the road doesn’t cause any issue for me as a cyclist.
chrisonatrike wrote:
At 5’1″ wide, that’s halfway between a classic Mini and a BMW MINI.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Yes, that’s what I thought, peter: I see a lot of people doing that. TBH I only do it if there’s no motorists waiting to go through the toll gates, and nothing oncoming.
brooksby wrote:
Cool – I can feel less guilty about when I do that, then.
If I were keeping my side of
If I were keeping my side of the line, I’d expect them to at least slow (haha), otherwise a bit of give and take. Where there is no clear priority, I try to accommodate as long as they are reasonable back. A bit beligerent where I have clear priority.
Title for a series based on G
Title for a series based on G’s Tour: Thomas the Crank Engine.
Hull folk having a meltdown
Hull folk having a meltdown with this story in the local wind-up merchant, Hull Live.
apologies for the website.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/hull-city-councils-plan-make-8024739?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
Funny, when you consider that
Funny, when you consider that I saw three cars being driven around Bristol last night with no rear lights on (I couldn’t see their front). I wonder whether the police will start stopping motorists and offering them free lights? 😉
See ’em all the time! Since
See ’em all the time! Since the introduction of DRLs on new cars, there are some motorists who assume that because the front lights are now always on, the rears are too.
Not only that, but they don’t understand what the D in DRL stands for. So as well as driving at night with no rear lights, without their proper lights switched on the front DRLs will shine undimmed at full daylight running brightness, dazzling other road users. Plonkers.
Mind you, why this outcome was not entirely predictable to the bureaucrats who framed the automotive DRL regulations is beyond me.
Yep.
Yep.
And why, accepting the stupidity of some drivers, didn’t they include rear lights, so that when they cannot be bothered to put their lights on at night, that there would be some behind.
I like the River Nene “lake
I like the River Nene “lake at the bottom of the banking” one.
An incentive to keep the speed up, especially for e-bikes – lets have that at the championships.
Have they dealt with the Noah’s Ark sections of the cyclepath by the Cambridge Guide busway yet?
With e-bikes it could be a
With e-bikes it could be a bit like Rufford Ford if there was a steep climb up out of the water maybe – if the electrics cut out? (Not sure how waterproof they are).
I don’t know they did not hit
I don’t know they did not hit me.
And she indicated left before she even cleared me.
Thank goodness the white car
Thank goodness the white car driver has been aware enough to get over to the left, you can guess when given a choice between hitting another car and hitting a cyclist which way she’s going to go.
Have you reported them?
Have you reported them?
Yes, about half an hour ago.
Yes, about half an hour ago.
No doubt it will be just a letter. It was very gusty too, so more space than 1.5m required.
If you put my submissions on a map, that spot would have the most pins. Do essex police even bother with this approach ?
Amazed to get an email at
Amazed to get an email at 0617 telling me to retain the footage. Probably just a course but they looked quite old so a course would be good for them given all the HC changes over the years.
The Cambridge Busway Cycle
The Cambridge Busway Cycle Path has flooded impassably a few times now where it drops below the level of the bus tracks near St Ives. Whilst I could be wrong, I think its been built sacraficially to protect bus tracks (the cycle path will soak up the flood) :-/
“Saskia Heijltjes, who was
“Saskia Heijltjes, who was appointed in October 2021 as Bath’s first bicycle mayor…”
Is there some problem with West country cities and their elected representatives supposedly carrying out their council’s published strategies? As we know from the recent article, Councillor Don Alexander of Bristol has a similar problem with comprehending what is essentially a fairly clear strategy.
I’m afraid someone needs to get back to Saskia Heijltjes and find out why she thinks that uniquely, a bicycle ride for children is somehow political? Since cycling seems to be equally detested by both main parties, and only really supported by one, the Greens, I would dearly like to know why she thinks it’s political. I note that she is from Holland, and must therefore know about the Kindermort campaign that stopped road expansion and led to more, better cycling facilities; that wasn’t political in the sense of left/right either, but it did achieve political change, so maybe that’s what she means. But if she isn’t firmly in favour of change, why did she accept the post?
Whatever, I would expect a Bicycle Mayor to be rather more active and assertive about promoting cycling, especially when Kidical Mass is so close to what what actually worked in Holland.
Just taken a look at an interview she did after getting the post:
“I chair the Bicycle Users Group at my workplace and I’m an active member of local campaign group Walk Ride Bath. In 2021, we started Kidical Mass rides to raise awareness of the need for safe infrastructure for cycling. The rides are so much fun, with many children on their own bikes, ringing their bells and feeling safe on the streets because of the size of the group.
What are your plans as Bicycle Mayor?
As a Bicycle Mayor, I want to grow Kidical Mass in Bath by running regular rides and
reaching out to more people. These events are perfect for people to meet and share
experiences of cycling. I want to build on the strengths of Kidical Mass as a positive event to inspire other families to take up cycling and to combat stereotypes. I will use the event as a platform to engage with decision makers and campaign for safe infrastructure for everyone, so that more people can choose to cycle.”
Now I’m totally confused.
As I read it, she’s just
She’s not really part of the regular council machinery I think e.g. I doubt they give her the key to the paperclip draw, never mind ability to make stuff happen. From Bath Uni:
As I read it, she’s just passing on the news (not news) that councils don’t like people protesting or attempting to embarrass them into making changes not lobbied for by their friends’ businesess (good luck). So they’ll head off anything which looks like citizens organising for themselves as opposed to a couple of random nutters who’re easily dismissed.
Bit like Big Politics. I think they’ve seized on the wheeze of trying to redefine “lawful protest” as basically “a street party, as long as it’s not too noisy or exhorts change”. So a group of concerned (god forbid angry) people occupying public space and voicing displeasure is to be discouraged.
Cold comfort but I think this shows that previous Kiddical Mass events have not been completely ineffectual when considered as protest.
Bicycle mayors are voted in
Bicycle mayors are voted in as a kind of Head Activist, they’re all something to do with the Cycling Embassy of Great Britain, I think. They’re nothing to do with the council, and have no powers or funds.
Ah, thanks, that was it – I
Ah, thanks, that was it – I couldn’t recall if they were vaguely involved with the council but for better (bloody councils; hmm Sustrans … ?) and worse (absolutely zero power) they’re not.
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/baths-first-bicycle-mayor-revealed-6075811
Not sure they’re even much to do with CEofGB (sadly a bit dormant it seems). It seems to be more of a loose network of autonomous non-hierarchical collectives type thing:
https://bycs.org/bicycle-mayor/
brooksby wrote:
So what is the purpose of a Bicycle Mayor, if it isn’t to support other cyclists and to achieve change?
eburtthebike wrote:
Isn’t that what she is trying to do, within the limited scope of influence she has, by flagging up the ridiculous decision of the event organisers?
You’re back !
You’re back !
A few of us wondered where you were.
York’s riverside cycleways
York’s riverside cycleways are regularly inundated. Right now is our annual once-a-decade winter flood.
Can you swim on your bike?
Can you swim on your bike? Or is this a variation of man needs woman like fish needs bicycle?
.
.
Oxygen doping!
Oxygen doping!
@eburtthebike – since you’re now power-assisted might I suggest this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uRUZTgNiXY
However it mentioned “might be the new Tesla if Elon Musk made water bikes” so I’m already out!
York’s riverside cycleways
York’s riverside cycleways are regularly inundated. Right now is our annual once-a-decade winter flood.
Yeah, it’s almost like they
Yeah, it’s almost like they put the cycling where it was possible (easiest / cheapest) rather than where it was best. To be fair the Ouse and even Foss are logical places to have routes along.
I was visiting York after a gap of some decades a couple of years ago and it was flooded again. That was hardly unhead of before but it seems to be standard now?
I did note they had clearly added some cycle infra during my long absence. However, since being a railway town York seems to be very much a car town – albeit with more cycling than much of the UK. I never quite understood why it wasn’t doing better e.g. was more like Cambridge? Apart from the hill it is mostly flat, it’s compact, has some useful disused railway long repurposed as non-motorised routes, is a major tourist destination, has “narrow mediaeval streets” (plus walls and barbican!) plus more modern suburbs which certainly have space for new infra – AND a fairly large number of university students.
Maybe it or the council reflect the general North Yorks character? That’s driving country!
Rob Ainsley wrote:
Shrewsbury is the same. Sustrans Route 81 uses the riverside park known as The Quarry and down past the weir. The photo below, taken a week ago by Liam Ball, shows English Bridge with water at least 1 metre above the path and the Severn is another 0.5 metres higher today. And the path will still be muddy and treacherous after the water level recedes.