The jam goes underground for Elon Musk; More red-light jumping undercover cyclists; lowdown on LTNs; tribute to Devon’s Mr Cycling; funding secured for Welsh ‘Biking Mecca’; CX champs preview + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
The jam: going underground?
Remember “Teslas in Tunnels”, the latest brainwave from tech billionaire and wannabe spaceman Elon Musk?
Well in case you’ve expunged it from your mind, “Teslas in Tunnels” is Musk’s ingenious plan to “solve the problem of soul-destroying traffic” by creating a new subterranean network where users can hitch a lift across town in an electric car. Yes, you heard that right – more roads for cars, only this time underground.
Two 0.8 mile prototype tunnels opened in Las Vegas in 2021, and local politicians have already approved a city-wide expansion of the project.
However, it appears that Musk’s ambition to put an end to traffic jams clogging up our city roads has – and this is a surprise – just moved the problem below the earth’s surface.
With congestion already posing a problem in the congestion-busting tunnels, Chris Boardman didn’t waste any time putting the boot into this latest car-centric transport fix.
Maybe they should build more tunnels, that’ll fix it….. https://t.co/f6509mIdit
— Chris Boardman (@Chris_Boardman) January 6, 2022
Incidentally, in March 2018 Musk announced that the underground tunnels would actually prioritise cyclists and pedestrians over cars. Perhaps he should rekindle that particular idea. Or maybe just move the whole thing to space instead…
The undercover cyclist strikes again… as Audi driver ignores red light
In yesterday’s live blog we featured the very first episode of Undercover Cyclist, the new Channel 4 documentary series where mischievous bike riders get behind the wheel of a car, rampaging around the country doing all those things that careful, law-abiding motorists would never think of doing – like jumping a red light.
In today’s episode the undercover cyclist – in an Audi no less – blatantly ignores the temporary traffic lights, flying past the actual bike rider who (you guessed it) was coming to a stop.
I’m sure the roadworkers were relieved that it was only the 1,850kg Audi which steamed past the red light towards them, and not a lawless destructive 85kg cyclist. Think of the carnage! pic.twitter.com/9AkYtz4Xx1
— JimsWheels (@JimsWheels) January 6, 2022
In the replies, Alan was at pains to point out the filmmaker’s blatant disregard for staunchly-held stereotypes, writing “Stopping at a red light? Call yourself a cyclist?”, while Clare pithily summed up the kind of reaction we’ve come to expect from the “cyclists jump red lights brigade”:
Something something cyclists something something red lights something road tax something something….
— Clare McMenemy (@highpoh) January 6, 2022
I for one think that the Undercover Cyclist has potential, with all the footage of these motorists breaking traffic laws, completely out of character. Now where’s the commissioning editor?
Or maybe it’s an episode of Scooby Doo, where the cyclist gets de-masked at the end to reveal he was a motorist all along. “And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for you meddling cyclists!” (Checks notes… the Audi driver actually did get away with it. Ah well, better luck next time Scooby).
The lowdown on LTNs
Superb letter from a council officer explaining the rationale for #LTNs in #Oxford. 👇
An example of high-calibre communication for @wandbc to follow, to support & promote #Wandsworth‘s transport hierarchy. Let’s learn from best practice! cc @JohnLocker_UK #CPD #walking #cycling https://t.co/IQNG8WD2Ob— WandsLS (@WandsLS) January 7, 2022
Next month Oxfordshire County Council will make a decision on whether to permanently install Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in Church Cowley, Temple Cowley, and Florence Park, where trial LTNs are currently taking place. Three new LTNs have also been approved by the council to commence in March.
Unsurprisingly, the proposed East Oxford LTN has divided opinion since its first round of consultation, which saw a majority of respondents give a ‘thumbs down’ to the scheme. Tellingly, however, most of the respondents who actually live in the streets where the LTNs are to be implemented supported the proposals.
In December, Oxford City Council asked the county council to defer their decision until better public transport links were put in place.
This week a constituent opposed to the scheme contacted the local Labour MP Anneliese Dodds, who forwarded on the request for more information to John Disley, the Infrastructure Strategy and Policy Manager at Oxfordshire County Council. Disley’s response was roundly praised online as a “straight answer” and a “high-calibre” rationale for LTNs throughout the country:
The LTNs were funded by the Government primarily because they create safe cycle routes away from traffic (Quietways) by removing most traffic from roads which the cycle route follows. The cycle routes will provide an opportunity for people of all ages (from children to the retired) to have a safe cycle route into Oxford city centre, not only from Florence Park and Church Cowley, but also reaching out to Littlemore and Greater Leys, with areas of high deprivation and poor health.
Many residents do not have access to a car. In Oxford as a whole, the 2011 census showed that there were only 340 cars to every 1000 people. In Church Cowley 42%, Cowley 34% and Littlemore 27% of households do not own a car. The underlying aim of the LTN is to reduce car journeys along residential roads, particularly through traffic, making walking and cycling more attractive and the first choice for travel, and to keep these car journeys on the main roads which are designed to take this traffic.
The findings from research into the impacts of the London LTNs are that the health and travel benefits were far in excess of any other measures that they had previously assessed in promoting public health and reducing car pollution. It found a positive impact on a range of factors – better public health, lower road traffic within the LTN area and no increase on peripheral roads, reduced road casualties, lower car ownership, lower street crime (except cycle theft), and better emergency response times.
The constituent was not impressed, however, and claimed Disley’s reply “gives me no hope or trust in our council whatsoever.” Can’t win ‘em all, eh?
Last ride for south-west’s ‘Mr Cycling’
For someone who devoted his life to cycling, I can think of no better tribute. On 12 January, local cyclists will ride behind the hearse carrying the coffin of South Devon’s ‘Mr Cycling’ Ken Robertson as he takes his final lap of the Torbay Velopark in Paignton.
Ken suffered a heart attack while on a ride with clubmates just before Christmas. He was 85.
Ken, who had been involved in the sport for over 70 years, was a member of Mid-Devon CC and organised the club’s Dartmoor Classic sportive since its foundation in 2007. He was also the tenth longest-serving member of the national committee of the Road Time Trials Council, a position he held between 1981 and 2001. Fittingly, a time trial in Ken’s memory was held on 27 December.
Ken continued to clock big miles on his bike well into his eighties, riding over 200 miles a week, and to celebrate his 84th birthday last year he rode 84 miles for charity.
Mid-Devon CC chairman Mike Gratton said, “It is the intention that the hearse will take a detour around the Velopark so that Ken can have his final ride with his cycling buddies. Those who wish may cycle behind him.”
A private family service will then be held in Torquay, though it is expected that a live broadcast of the funeral will be made available.
“Biking Mecca of Wales” approved
This is very exciting! I like the sound of Abergavenny the biking mecca of Wales 🚲🚲🚲 https://t.co/gQNUSuF4fi
— CllrLisaDymock (@CllrLisaDymock) December 23, 2021
Now this is promising – Monmouthshire council has formally approved funding to progress plans for a cycling centre near Abergavenny.
The proposed velo park will include training and racing facilities suitable for road, cyclo-cross and mountain biking, while recreational space will also be made available for families and leisure cyclists.
A budget of £28,000 has been earmarked to fund consultancy costs for the project, with the council hoping to receive planning permission by June.
Welsh Cycling, which is working with the council to develop the plans, noted that a lack of suitable road cycling facilities represents “one of the main barriers to the development of the sport in Wales”.
A design and access statement says that the new facility “will be of regional and potentially national importance for the growth and development of cycling and other wheeled sports.
“It will further enhance Abergavenny’s reputation as one of the most successful cycling towns and destinations in Wales.”
Maybe we now won’t have to wait too long for the next Geraint Thomas and Zoe Bäckstedt to emerge…
Elon, take note – this is how you do a tunnel…
Not all Roman attractions are found above ground. Some are subterranean – and in the case of the Great Quarry of Rome, can be traveled by bike tours. https://t.co/uVHSlHfKPJ
— The Christian Science Monitor (@csmonitor) January 6, 2022
As we saw earlier today, Las Vegas may have the fancy new Jeeves-operated Tesla Tunnels, but perhaps Elon Musk would avoid any congestion problems if he looked to one of the world’s oldest cities for inspiration.
2,000 years ago the Great Quarry of Rome, located just a few miles from the city centre, was created: a 22 mile twisting labyrinth of underground passageways which the Romans used to extract pozzolana, a volcanic rock which, when mixed with lime, created a kind of ancient concrete.
Luckily for you, these ancient tunnels can now be explored by bike. Sotterranei di Roma (Underground Places of Rome) organises bike tours of the subterranean network, which accommodate around 40 cyclists at a time. Mountain bikes are preferred, but the tunnels’ hard-packed floor means visitors can use a city bike if they wish.
It might not make you want to scrap your plans for the Dolomites, but this could well be your next cycling holiday…
It’s National Champs Weekend!
Cyclo-cross Nationals are almost here 🔥🇬🇧
This weekend 16 national champions will be crowned with categories spanning from Under-14s to 60+ 🔴 ⚪ 🔵
Everything you need to know about the event ➡️ https://t.co/qu17i7x9Gi pic.twitter.com/DNBzN6vcT7
— British Cycling (@BritishCycling) January 6, 2022
Fields will be muddied and jerseys will be awarded all over Europe this weekend – no, it’s not some tractor pulling, knitting competition (though that does sound intriguing), it’s time for the national cyclo-cross championships!
The South of England Showground in Crawley will play host to the British championships, a year after the venue was forced to postpone the 2021 event due to Covid restrictions.
Tom Pidcock won’t be returning to defend his title in the elite men’s race, as the in-form Yorkshireman opts to join his Ineos teammates for a pre-season training camp in Mallorca. Pidcock’s sights nevertheless remain firmly set on the upcoming world championships in Fayetteville, Arkansas, where he will be hoping to add an elite rainbow jersey to his collection.
He will be accompanied in Mallorca by new teammate Ben Turner, who has been picking up some decent results in the ‘cross field himself this winter and would also have been considered a favourite for Sunday.
With Pidcock and Turner absent, the elite men’s race is wide open: Trinity Racing’s Cameron Mason is fresh off an U23 World Cup win in Dendermonde and an encouraging 15th among the best in the world at Hulst last weekend (a race won of course by Pidcock). Thomas Mein of the Tormans team has been steady at the highest level all winter, while Corran Carrick-Anderson and Rory McGuire have lit up the national series.
In the women’s race, Starcasino’s Anna Kay and Welsh wunderkind Zoe Bäckstedt (Tormans) will challenge 2020 champion Hattie Harnden of Trek Factory Racing. Kay bounced back from a broken collarbone after being hit by a car in September to win the GP Leuven, while 17 year old Bäckstedt’s staggering rise to the top of the sport in 2021 has included an elite win in Essen in December, along with three junior World Cup wins, a junior European Championships, and – don’t forget – a rainbow jersey in the junior road race. Can she cap off a stunning season with an elite national title?
The Cyclocross National Championships are set to take place this weekend in the City of Armagh at the picturesque Palace Demesne 🤩
Check out the link below for a preview of the Championships ⬇https://t.co/y6UaKp4hVH pic.twitter.com/8r02Ekrj3u
— Cycling Ireland (@CyclingIreland) January 5, 2022
On the other side of the Irish sea, the Irish national championships take place in Armagh’s Palace Demesne. Maria Larkin will be defending her 2020 title, while Chris McGlinchey will be hoping for a local win after finishing second two years ago.
Meanwhile, for those hoping to catch a last glimpse of Wout van Aert before he hangs up the ‘cross bike in favour of a concerted shot at the spring classics, he will be hoping to round off an illustrious and dominant season with another Belgian title in Middelkerke on Sunday.
EasyPost becomes co-title sponsor of EF Education team
New year. New name. Same drive. Join us in welcoming EasyPost as our new naming rights partner. The team will ride as EF Education-EasyPost in 2022 and beyond. pic.twitter.com/3ZthpiR5xY
— EF Pro Cycling (@EFprocycling) January 7, 2022
Jonathan Vaughters’ EF Education team today announced that shipping firm EasyPost has joined the team as a title sponsor.
The change means that JV’s not-so-crazy-gang-anymore will be known as EF Education-EasyPost for 2022. Nippo, which will remain as a co-named sponsor for the EF development team, also stays on as a secondary sponsor for the elite team.
The sponsorship deal appears to represent a renewed period of financial stability for the Slipstream Sports outfit run by Vaughters, four years after they launched a crowdfunding campaign in a bid to keep the team going, and over a decade since the start of a flurry of mergers with other WorldTour teams such as Cervélo and later Cannondale.
Infuriatingly for jersey watchers, the squad’s new kit for 2022 won’t be revealed until the end of January, though I assume the fetching pink of the last few years will stay largely untouched.
All Mod Cons
We’ve had a range of responses to this morning’s revelation that just shoving a load of cars under the ground won’t actually end traffic forever. Here’s a selection of your thoughts:
On the one hand, I like the idea of shoving cars underground out of our way, but is it really feasible? The big problems I anticipate is that drivers sometimes crash and if the tunnel isn’t at least the width of 2-3 cars, then you’re going to have a severe blockage. The other issue is of pollution – without decent ventilation the tunnels are going to be a health hazard.
Meanwhile, those problems largely disappear if you use the tunnels just for cycling (guessing that pedestrians would rather walk above ground) as there’s little chance of a blockage and no traffic fumes to worry about.
A small part of me applauds this Elon Musk bloke for trying to do something ‘different’ with his numerous pots of gold. However the underground tunnels idea does seem to be reinventing the tube, but in a more short-sighted and elitist way.
I’ll admit I’ve not read all the bumf on Musk’s tunnels, but if the idea was to produce safe routes for ‘autonomous electric vehicles’ to travel, then I’m kinda on board with the principal. e.g. 1) you can’t let AI driven cars just drive around on the streets today 2) you drive in your EV to a gate/toll press the button which says ‘autonomous’ then sit back watch TV for half an hour while you travel to the other side/gate exit, then carry on with your car journey.
Elon being Elon I suspect his actual vision was/is little electric pod vehicles, but it was easier to grab a load of Model 3’s given his other activities. These tunnels are only really a technology demonstrator.
Speaking as a cyclist I would not be thrilled at being forced into a subterranean orifice to ride my bike.
Plus, here in the fens the water table is less than a metre below the surface, so scuba equipment would quickly become essential.
Interestingly, the Boring Company website suggested that the other alternative they thought of was flying cars, but decided tunnels were better because they couldn’t fall on people’s heads. A quick peruse of Wiki suggests they may not be possession of all relevant tunnel facts…
Move over Elon, I’ve just had a brilliant idea. We could put mass transit systems in tunnels under major cities. It would be like riding on a train and have lots of stops so you only had a short distance to walk when you got near your destination. In addition to reducing congestion it addresses another major problem in urban environments namely parking.
I think I might name this new system after a takeaway chain that sells tubular shaped sandwiches. I’ll let you know if I come up with anything.
But enough about those, let’s get to the puns…
A few of you seemed to enjoy my reference to Going Underground, with one or two even supplying their own Jam-based world play.
My favourites were “Down in the Tesla Station at Midnight” and “Elon Rifles (through some new ideas)”. If you have any more, keep them coming.
However, some of you did go slightly off-piste, with “It Musk’ve Been Love” and “It’s Been Elo, -lon, -lon Time”. Let’s stick to the Jam, shall we?
My burning question in all of this is: how many (David) Watts does a Tesla produce?
That’s Entertainment!
Big names descend on the nationals
Heading south on the long drive to Crawley for the CX Nationals weekend with Xander Graham. Going to be epic! #propercyclingmagazine pic.twitter.com/GUkl2ZqZxt
— Proper Cycling Magazine (@CyclingProper) January 7, 2022
While my preview of this weekend’s British cyclo-cross championships earlier may have focused on the elite races, one of the more recognisable faces heading down to Crawley is 12-year-old Xander Graham.
The young Scot, who shot to fame after briefly outpacing the break at the Tour of Britain last year, won the U14 race at the Scottish cyclo-cross championships in November.
Last week it was announced that Xander was one of the first riders signed by Jukebox Cycling, a multi-disciplinary team featuring former Garmin rider Phil Gaimon.
I’m sure more than a few eyes will be on the not-even-teenage prodigy this weekend.
Is Sagan living in the past?
Earlier this week Peter Sagan and his brother Juraj announced that they had tested positive for Covid for the second time, after experiencing symptoms related to the virus.
Judging by the publicity shots posted by his new TotalEnergies team (taken before his latest positive test, Sherlock), the Slovakian champion seems to be also suffering from withdrawal symptoms from a certain rainbow jersey he once wore for three years straight.
Sagan went to Sportful and said make me look like the world champ again without breaching copyright pic.twitter.com/Suf4VhXA06
— Dan Deakins (@DanDeakins) January 6, 2022
“See, Peter, if you squint a bit, it’ll be just like you’re world champion again”, I imagine the photographer laughed, nervously.
As for the TotalEnergies jersey itself, it’s a bit of a mess. Which reminds me, I really need to get round to ranking this year’s kits…
Pon Holdings completes £600m purchase of Dorel Sports
Dorel Industries has confirmed the sale of its bike segment, Dorel Sports, to the Dutch mobility group Pon Holdings for the princely sum of £600 million.
The sale, which was originally announced in October, includes brands such as Cannondale, GT, Schwinn and Mongoose.
“We are very pleased to have completed the sale of Dorel Sports to a great company like Pon,” Dorel’s President Martin Schwartz said in a statement. “On behalf of the Board of Directors, I again thank the Dorel Sports team for their commitment to Dorel and their great achievements.
“We believe that with this sale, Dorel has realized full value for Dorel Sports, for the benefit of Dorel and our shareholders.”
Founded in 1980, Pon’s bike portfolio currently includes Cervélo, Focus, Santa Cruz and Faraday.
That Friday feeling... brought to you by the Norsgaard siblings
The weekend is here pic.twitter.com/hmSf0MiG6X
— adam becket (@adambecket) January 7, 2022
It’s the weekend folks, and I’m away to put on my Jam records (not sure why the thought occurred to me).
Didn’t we have a nice time? Okay, I’ll stop now – before I get on to the b-sides…
7 January 2022, 09:18
Speaking of out-of-character...
Mr Loophole secures acquittal of cyclist accused of causing crash
Paul Crompton was accused of cycling without due care and attention after motorist Derek Pipe rear-ended him
7 January 2022, 09:18
7 January 2022, 09:18
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Latest Comments
A sprinters' festival makes for low TV ratings until 15 minutes before the end of the race. Unless crosswinds blow, then everything can happen.
I had a dream - the UCI asked Evenepoel, Swenson, Vinegegaard and other pros who got injured while out training to take part in a global campaign to promote safe cycling and raise all road users' (including pedestrians) awareness about the vulnerability of people who travel and commute on two wheels. It's about time to make cycling really SafeR, isn't it?
The impact went down into the frame and snapped the top and down tubes I'm assuming that's a carbon frame?
If Emily thinks that a migraine is instantly triggered by a bright light, and if she thinks that people with migraines are capable of continuing to drive whilst in the grip of one, then Emily doesn't really know what a migraine is.
I got car doored a couple of years ago. The left hand handkebar hit the edge of the opening door. The impact went down into the frame and snapped the top and down tubes. I went down, knocked out, but escaped with bad bruising.
I don't mind the no pockets but wish that Road.CC would show these jackets rolled up so we can gauge how packable they are.
Well I'm pretty sure I'm not on the right… I know the point you're making and indeed have often pointed out to people that they should look at their take-home pay and if they're happy with that stop worrying about what their employer gives to the government. However when I'm paying for my shopping it's not anybody else's money going on the VAT and duty, is it? If you frame Government expenditure as not taxpayers' money then you run into another problem which is if it's not our money then why should we have a right to have an input in telling the government how it should be spent?
That's a great heuristic. Game changer.
80 thoughts on “The jam goes underground for Elon Musk; More red-light jumping undercover cyclists; lowdown on LTNs; tribute to Devon’s Mr Cycling; funding secured for Welsh ‘Biking Mecca’; CX champs preview + more on the live blog”
“Tesla tunnel” sounds 70s sci
“Tesla tunnel” sounds 70s sci-fi, but of course like hyperloops we’ve been there long before that… the idea in the 1667 apparently, 1820s, 1860s inc. the well known Crystal Palace one.
chrisonatrike wrote:
Mentions of Crystal Palace and The Jam in the same blog/discussion. I am in my element.
We’re down in the tube
We’re down in the tube station at midnight now!
He comes across as so dense
He comes across as so dense sometimes…despite being one of the richest men in the world. But what he probably mean’t with his tunnel was more of a congestion buster for people who could afford it – a rich peoples plaything that they get to use while the pleb’s overground choke in their jams. It makes a whole lot more sense when you think of it that way
Epic blog title btw. Elon
Epic blog title btw. Elon rifles next time please
EddyBerckx wrote:
It Musk’ve been love (but it’s over now)
Captain Badger wrote:
It’s been Elon, -lon, -lon time
(…queueing in a very short tunnel)
Elon, lon time ago….
Elon, lon time ago….
I can still remember how the traffic used to make me cry
I think the governments and
I think the governments and media are conspiring to keep him hidden away – the man in the Elon Musk.
chrisonatrike wrote:
Oh very good sir, chapeau neuf de pape….
Captain Badger wrote:
Nine mitres… Hanging on a wall?
TheBillder wrote:
And if one of those mitres should accidently fall…
Captain Badger wrote:
Oh very good sir, chapeau neuf de pape….
— Captain Badger Nine mitres… Hanging on a wall?— TheBillder And if one of those mitres should accidently fall…— Captain Badger
Oh, how the mitres have fallen…
mdavidford wrote:
I won’t have you bashing the bishops on here!
chrisonatrike wrote:
That sounds like Fighting Talk to me.
On the one hand, I like the
On the one hand, I like the idea of shoving cars underground out of our way, but is it really feasible? The big problems I anticipate is that drivers sometimes crash and if the tunnel isn’t at least the width of 2-3 cars, then you’re going to have a severe blockage. The other issue is of pollution – without decent ventilation the tunnels are going to be a health hazard.
Meanwhile, those problems largely disappear if you use the tunnels just for cycling (guessing that pedestrians would rather walk above ground) as there’s little chance of a blockage and no traffic fumes to worry about.
Do Tesla’s pollute the air?
Do Tesla’s pollute the air?
Yes.
Yes.
1. During construction I believe the CO2 emiited in building an EV is more than a petrol/diesel though do not quote me on it.
2. During use if the electricity is not generated from renewables
Sevenfold wrote:
Indeed – the average battery-only EV will account for 18 tonnes of CO2 during its lifetime, less than a similar-sized family car (24 tonnes) but 46% of that is the manufacturing pocess. A Tesla using the average US mixed-production electricity supply has to be used for around 13,000 miles before it reaches pollution breakeven against a petrol Toyota Corolla due to the higher CO2 emissions in production. If the electricity comes solely from coal-powered plants, obviously the equation gets considerably worse, with nearly 80,000 miles required before breakeven.
Ah.. that’s not what I meant,
Ah.. that’s not what I meant, I meant when in use (not when being built).
The answer to which is actually bigger than just talking about manufacture. Yes EV’s do cost more carbon to build at the moment than petrol machines.. BUT they are significantly more carbon effective over the life of the vehicle.. like between 2 and 15 times more carbon effective than a petrol car (the massive differences here as you state, are mainly dependant on how the electricity is generated/ comes from in order to charge them, 15times better would be if all the energy came from renewables, 2times would be from a fossil fuelled power station. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle for most.
peted76 wrote:
Yes
Tyre scrub, road wear and brake dust are significant sources of toxic pollutants.
There is also the consumable nature of those 3 things – what do you do with worn tyres and pads, and how frequently do you need to replace the road surface. Mind you the typical UK LA seems to have that last one sorted…..
All statements that apply to
All statements that apply to bikes also.
Although clearly the volume of particales should be smaller from stopping a significantly lighter object.
wycombewheeler wrote:
Oh come on Wyc….
It also counts for pedestrians, to take the false equivalence even further.
hawkinspeter wrote:
And then filling in the entrances?
mdavidford wrote:
Where’s Highways England when you need them…..
hawkinspeter wrote:
It’s not remotely feasable due to the trillions it would cost. The Limehouse Link tunnel in London is still the most expensive road in British history from what I understand – 300 million for a mile of road – at 1993 prices.
EddyBerckx wrote:
Quite possibly, however, Musk’s The Boring Company (excellent name) is supposed to drastically reduce the cost and time taken to dig tunnels.
What he might claim and what
What he might claim and what he actually does is definitely different things. For example he claimed that it would only cost $10mil per mile but Vegas cost $50 for 1.7mile. and whilst this does look cheaper then traditional, he wasn’t really digging in a high building density area like some of the more higher costing ones. The expansion will be interesting as he would potentially going under foundations and high underground utility areas.
Maybe the other £25mill was spent on the funky lights in the tunnel to make it look futuristic which it seems they have all turned off now.
Their website also claims
Their website also claims that they can drill at the rate of 1 mile per week (6 times the speed of their older machine) and yet this 1.7 mile tunnel took 18 months. Even with the old machine my maths says 10-12 weeks if they were even close to achieving that.
Also their low cost approach is based on the tunnels only ever being shallow, through soil, not rock and all having the same diameter regardless of intended use.
There is some potentially clever thinking in some of what they are doing but it is all aimed at low hanging fruit in terms of tunnel engineering which would not work in well established cities with legacy underground infrastructure. It is not clear how it would cope with complex geology that those countries on the edge of continental plates tend to have compared to those in the middle.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Hull’s yellow pages directory used to have an entry that read:
See Civil Engineers
That always used to amuse me, particularly as a very good friend of mine was a civil engineer.
Jetmans Dad wrote:
That always used to amuse me, particularly as a very good friend of mine was a civil engineer. — hawkinspeter
I think all yellow pages did – I certainly used to point it out to civil engineer students when I was at university.
EddyBerckx wrote:
Sunk cost fallacy…..
Edit: for those tunnels already built that is.
For future tunnels should we actually accept that transport is for people not vehicles the cost per mile is reflective of the value of moving people – it’s just as valuable to move a person on a bike as it is to move a person in a steel container containing a suboptimally occupied 3 piece suite.
And cost in the other deleterious affects of motor vehicles, and tunnels for bikes actually starts to make a lot of sense.
Captain Badger wrote:
Drilled cost, surely?
Unless it starts to leak.
The orginal point was to give
The orginal point was to give an idea of the cost of the project.
Sunk cost is something entirely different in that people make the wrong decisions about an ongoing project because X amount has been spent already.
hirsute wrote:
I understand, and I was covering to say that if a tunnel has already been built at 300m per mile or or whatever, it is still feasible to use that tunnel for transporting people only, without their vehicles – We can’t use lime house for bikes/active, cos we spent a lot of money building it for cars = false.
For future tunnels, it is still feasible to make them for bikes only at the same cost, as the return isn’t about moving the car, it’s about moving the person. In reality the costs are less – eg less heavily engineered, lighter ventilation requirement etc. In addition the ROI is earlier, as the other related costs of motoring to society are reduced.
Clearly roads are also used to transport materials that actually have some purpose in being moved. Remove the extraneous material from the road network that has no purpose in being moved (approx 2t per private car) and the network is much more able to sustain the necessary.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Elon being Elon I suspect his actual vision was/is little electric pod vehicles, but it was easier to grab a load of Model 3’s given his other activities. These tunnels are only really a technology demonstrator.
However outlandish his ideas are – and this V0.1 of one of them – he has a vertical integration vision that few others have the balls to aim for. Between his companies he owns a huge part of the Electric Car ecosystem, starting from the Power Supply (Solar City) the Batteries (Tesla Giga factory), the cars (Telsa), the Chargers (Tesla SuperChargers) and now the Transport Links (Boring Company). He also making moves to own the Telemetery channels (StarLink). If he also isnt contemplating Solar Satellites I’ll eat my hat.
Secret_squirrel wrote:
Tesla by name, Tesla by nature…
hawkinspeter wrote:
Are you sure you are a squirrel and not a groundhog? Speaking as a cyclist I would not be thrilled at being forced into a subterranean orifice to ride my bike.
Plus, here in the fens the water table is less than a metre below the surface, so scuba equipment would quickly become essential.
SimoninSpalding wrote:
Well, bridges are sometimes used to let squirrels cross busy roads, but I can imagine some logistical problems with building loads of bridges for cycle commuters. At least a tunnel provides protection from the weather.
Interestingly, the Boring
Interestingly, the Boring Company website suggested that the other alternative they thought of was flying cars, but decided tunnels were better because they couldn’t fall on people’s heads. A quick peruse of Wiki suggests they may not be possession of all relevant tunnel facts…
At least they’ve considered a
At least they’ve considered a range of options, rather than just having tunnel vision.
I think you’re rather
I think you’re rather undermined their case.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Also Cycling Tunnels are much much cheaper because we require much lower safety standards (apparently).
When the Dutch do it, for
When the Dutch do it, for shorter distances tunnels are preferred over bridges since you gain energy first going down before needing to expend it (back up). It’s easier to add energy when you’re pedalling faster especially for the no / few geared bikes of the Netherlands. Of course ideally you’ll be making the motor vehicles / trains go up for some of the height so cyclists don’t have to go down so far. Bridges obviously tend to be favoured over longer distances (exception here) I suspect because they’re cheaper.
(Cycle underpasses when designed properly are a good solution to avoid any conflict with motorised vehicles).
There are even some cool underwater examples [1], [2].
A small part of me applaudes
A small part of me applaudes this Elon Musk bloke for trying to do something ‘different’ with his numerous pots of gold. However the underground tunnels idea does seem to be reinventing the tube, but in a more shortsighted and eliteist way.
I’ll admit I’ve not read all
I’ll admit I’ve not read all the bumpf on Musk’s tunnels, but if the idea was to produce safe routes for ‘autonomous electric vehicles’ to travel, then I’m kinda on board with the principal. e.g. 1) you can’t let AI driven cars just drive around on the streets today 2) you drive in your EV to a gate/toll press the button which says ‘autonomous’ then sit back watch TV for half an hour while you travel to the other side/gate exit, then carry on with your car journey.
peted76 wrote:
All fine, except I assume that electric cars do breakdown/get a flat tyre occasionally, whether self-driven or not. Doesn’t seem to be much scope for getting such a vehicle out of the way, or recovered any time soon.
peted76 wrote:
but before adding addition trunk route capacity, very careful consideration must be given to the local capacity at the the exits.
On the undercover cyclist
On the undercover cyclist stories, I can’t be the only person who worries (whenever I stop at amber/red lights) that the motorist behind me will decide to keep going…
No, no you’re not.
No, no you’re not.
No, in fact I rarely stop at
No, in fact I rarely stop at amber (unless it’s amber for a few seconds about to turn red), 50% chance the driver behind will just carry on regardless – happily covered by the highway code
bloodylazylayabout wrote:
I admit that recently I followed 3 cars through a red light on one of these temporary road work things. My reasoning was that was the safest place for me to be; the roadworks were about 200m long and there was a steep uphill after them, so I expected to be nearly at the top of the hill before any following vehicle would catch up with me. If I had stopped, I would have to have chosen whether to ride at the head of the queue for several minutes, or pull over and wave the cars through which would probably have meant missing the green altogether.
Daveyraveygravey wrote:
Yes, there were some near to me recently where the corresponding light was up a hill & around a bend – imagine my complete lack of surprise when I hadn’t even made it to the bend before I was faced with cars coming the other way – I’m putting it down to working from home for almost 2 years that I can’t manage 30mph+ uphill
Hence I don’t stop on eraly
Hence I don’t stop on eraly to mid) amber on the bike. It would not be safe to do so, with the following car driver highly likely to run the amber, and with no mirrors to see what they are doing.
Quote:
…is not a thing.
Cheers for pointing that out.
Cheers for pointing that out. Bit of snow blindness when checking for typos!
You’re always welcome in the
You’re always welcome in the comments to pick up on our typos too!
Move over Elon, I’ve just had
Move over Elon, I’ve just had a brilliant idea. We could put mass transit systems in tunnels under major cities. It would be like riding on a train and have lots of stops so you only had a short distance to walk when you got near your destination. In addition to reducing congestion it addresses another major problem in urban environments namely parking.
I think I might name this new system after a takeaway chain that sells tubular shaped sandwiches. I’ll let you know if I come up with anything.
I suspect Musk is so wealthy
I suspect Musk is so wealthy and so focused on his own interests, he might not even realise that someone already thought of underground train systems… After all, they’re only used by the little people (and I don’t mean the fae).
not these little people?
not these little people?
IanMK wrote:
Nah, never catch on. Where would you put your car?
Quote:
I live near, and cycle through, the area that Facebook group covers regularly and you’ll not be surprised to hear that it is mostly just cul-de-sacs around there. An LTN in all but name.
Unfortunately some members of that group are also members of groups I’m in, but in the safe space of the road.cc comments I can say that they are all comfortable suburbanite bellyachers enjoying the benefits of low-traffic living and absolutely apoplectic that anyone who lives further into the city might get to experience the same.
Quote:
She missed “something, something lycra, something , something, think they’re in the Tour de France, something, something” 😀
Look if we are meme’ing the
Look if we are meme’ing the something something something quotes can we at least get it right https://youtu.be/0oGMbAIcXCQ
Quote:
Are they still waiting on delivery?
I just want to put on record
I just want to put on record how much I appreciate the Jam. Using their songs in pun headline titles?
That’s entertainment.
Gennysis wrote:
Elon Musk? I wish I could have all he has got…
those tunnels are a daft idea
those tunnels are a daft idea. They must cost so much to build too. In European cities, with the constant stopping of work for achelogical reasons, the already ample cross crossing of subterranean infrastructure – the Musk Tunnels would be ridiculously unfeasible. In the desert maybe. (But still stupid really) Congestion is caused by motor vehicles – whether it’s a petrol motor or an electric motor. The only way to reduce congestion is to reduce the number of motor vehicles.
I think someone also proposed
I think someone also proposed that if his full first concept came to fruition, the cities would still be gridlock as they would then be full of traffic coming through his tunnels and then not able to go anywhere or even park.
I’m actually surprised he hasn’t actually been arrested for “shareholder fraud” over most of his actual company claims that haven’t ever been fulfilled. I mean the press conference where he proclaimed about all his solar roof tiles were on all the houses and were powering all the lights was blatantly false. He didn’t state they were a mock-up of what they might look like but they actually were all working.
“Welsh Cycling, which is
“Welsh Cycling, which is working with the council to develop the plans, noted that a lack of suitable road cycling facilities represents “one of the main barriers to the development of the sport in Wales”.”
I find this baffling because Wales is my favourite place in the UK to cycle, the country is covered in small roads, beautiful scenery and relatively low traffic levels. Road surfaces are also better than I am used to in Buckinghamshire.
Just read in the local rag
Just read in the local rag someone complaining that their 1.2 mile roundtrip will be further due to roadwork diversions.
This will lead to increased pollution.
1.2 miles !
hirsute wrote:
Agreed. But if you want people to change understanding their position helps. Let’s try:
Maybe this person was persuaded by their culture and their social circle to buy a car – it’s a normal part of life, it’s an aspiration, it’ll give me freedom! Maybe having invested money in it and having to pay regular ongoing charges they decide to make more use of it. Maybe they’ve been conditioned to arrange their life around being able to string together short trips aided by the car, or go somewhere spontaneously. Maybe they often take children or other dependents about, or pick up shopping, or need to arrive somewhere looking neat and unflustered.
Maybe the roads they take their short trips on don’t feel safe on a bike. Maybe there are some alternatives where they could cycle or walk but none of these are direct, convenient (they have to keep getting on and off the bike / climb stairs, there’s no provision to leave your bike at destinations) or attractive (you need to route-find through poorly lit areas, dodge glass, barriers and dogshit). Maybe they don’t feel “socially safe”.
Maybe despite all this they decide to give cycling a go for a few trips. Maybe they go to a shop and are given the choice of a racer or a mountain bike? Maybe they find something that seems to suit them better but it doesn’t come with lights, a lock, mudguards or a rack built-in? Maybe they go out on it once but it’s raining, they get close-passed, have a puncture, the bike gets vandalised – or stolen?
Now if instead of all that they had this kind of cycling provision to ride on. Suppose all the bike shops offered low-maintenance bikes which came with all the bits you need built-in, like cars do? Suppose you could see lots of ordinary people of all ages dressed in everyday clothing getting on with daily tasks using cycles?
I heard this earlier –
I heard this earlier – actually from Jan 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0001tz9
Can we break our addiction to the car?
A neighbour takes the little
A neighbour takes the little darlings to school each day in the family Range Rover sport. They pull out on other drivers, forcing them to slam on, then floor it for….10 seconds before pulling up outside the school. The round trip? About two tenths of a mile!
No wonder they seem to have lots of problems with the car, as this is all is seems to be used for.
A neighbour takes the little
A neighbour takes the little darlings to school each day in the family Range Rover sport
Personalised plate? That’s a dead giveaway for an a**e
Well, not a personal plate as
Well, not a personal plate as in a cherished plate, but a cheapo £299 plate which makes it look like an old car to the casual onlooker. I guess it must mean something to them but I can’t see what, it looks ridiculous. And it has those ridiculous seemingly must have 4D plates which make it look even worse.
Funnily enough, they are arses too. Very lucky of you to have guessed!
I used to live in a small
I used to live in a small village. Most school mornings the lady across the road would schlep out of her front door, usually in her slippers, slurping from a mug of coffee in one hand whilst herding her 2 offspring into the car. Reverse off the drive, top of the road (approx 30m) turn left, drive for approx 150m, turn right, another 50m or so and pull up outside the village primary school. Children safely dropped off, turn around and drive home.
I also used to work with people who lived within 1/2 mile of site and who habitually drove every day. Just on the off chance that they needed to go somewhere in an emergency or maybe do some shopping.
Even my old Dad would sooner drive 1/3 mile to the local shop than walk. It might have taken him 20 minutes each way but he had little else to fill his time and frankly he could have done with the exercise.
Unless there is some sort of immense cost involved in that first mile, the temptation to drive even short distances can be overwhelming in a car centric society.
These neighbours travel at
These neighbours travel at the most 250yds.
https://www.gazette-news.co
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19835042.fairstead-cyclist-dies-following-fata-crash-braintree/
One of the cyclists, who was a man in his 60s, was sadly pronounced dead at the scene, while the other biker sustained injuries to his face.
The force has subsequently arrested a 65-year-old man from South Woodham Ferrers on suspicion of causing death by careless driving.
One of my work colleagues
One of my work colleagues lives 1.5 miles from our site. He refuses to walk into work yet complains about being overweight and all the problems associated. Every winter especially when the snow blows in he warns me not to make it in as he will be taking a ‘snow day’ and he has no excuse especially when I live 6 miles out. He knows that if I don’t fit snow tyres I’ll don hiking gear and get myself into work.