“Amazing to see the BBC getting this wrong”: Camera cyclist “disappointed” after BBC calls him “vigilante” in now-corrected mistake; Uber’s cycling pub with £5.50 Happy Hour pints; Pogačar’s rainbow jersey; WTF electrical box bike? + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Near Miss of the Day 917: “Don’t get angry because a cyclist is faster than you” – Bin lorry driver “using vehicle as a weapon” misses filtering cyclist by “six inches max”
Another edition of the Near Miss of the Day series, this time from Bournemouth…
Brand-new edition of "WTF is this?": Decoy electric bike that is "least likely to be stolen" because it looks like a... electrical box
Welcome to the internet, which can sometimes be a bizarre and uncanny place with bizarre and uncanny things. And in the latest update of bizarre and uncanny cycling-adjacent things, we’ve got this shocking contraption for you…
Frankie La Penna, a social media figure, known for his, erm, cakes, captioned the video: “This is how to get the BEST parking spot at every sporting event / concert known to man.”
“This is the least likely to be stolen electric bike of all-time. You can leave it sitting in front of thousands of people and no one will even look at it. And in case you can’t tell, this is designed to mimic as an electrical box. When you park it next to one, the resemblance is shocking. Beneath all the metal panels, is just a regular e-bike purchased from the internet.”
Yeah, that is without a doubt one of the craziest things I’ve seen all week (and that’s saying something, because I did see Kneecap perform live in Cardiff) — and somehow, this boxy design still looks better as an e-bike than Elon Musk’s Cybertruck looks as a boxy 4×4.
Pogačar's new rainbow jersey is ready, and it's gorgeous...
Talk about a thing of beauty…
The Slovenian is set to don the rainbow bands for the first time tomorrow at the Italian one-day race Giro Dell’Emilia, and UAE Team Emirates have finally revealed the updated world championship jersey, and bless the team and its designers for not cluttering the area under the stripes with a sponsor logo. On the flip side, white shorts???
Uber’s latest PR stunt? A carbon-negative pop-up cycling pub where you can pedal to generate electricity… and pay £5.50 for ‘Happy Hour’ pints
They say you work hard, but the PR industry works harder — and now in Uber’s latest PR move, you are invited to be a part of a carbon-negative pop-up cycling pub, where you can pedal while sipping on overpriced pints to generate electricity.
The pop-up called 55k Tonnes is set to open in Westminster for two days between October 7-9, claims to be the first-of-its-kind that is capable of generating more electricity than it uses. And it’s aiming to do so by inviting the drinkers to sit on a power bike and pedal — besides being equipped with Pavegen floor, which apparently transforms footsteps into electricity. Oh, and also, there’s “carbon neutral” beers.
The company said that the name 55k Tonnes is to celebrate the 55,000 tonnes of air pollution reduced in London due to Uber’s electrification efforts since 2021, with almost 30 per cent of its journey taking place through electric cars in London.
But let’s get to the point, what’s on the tap, you ask? Well, it’s Swell, brewed by South London’s Gipsy Hill Brewing, on draft, a lager made from regeneratively grown, bio-diverse barley from Wildfarmed. The beer app Untappd tells me, Swell is “light and crisp, with refreshing florals and a lick of melon. Everything you want from a lager… just a little bit better for the planet.”
And if you make your way after 5:50pm, you can get yourself a cheeky discount and grab a pint for… £5.50. Yep, that’s London beer prices for you!
So tell me if I’m getting this wrong, it’s basically the infamous beer bikes which appeared in Belfast and Bristol (and Edinburgh too, before it ended up being seized by the police), but you just… sit in one place while reminding yourself to pedal — otherwise you’re not doing your bit to be a good citizen of planet earth and generate some electricity?
For context, in 2023, each mile that a passenger travelled on Uber resulted in an average generation of 191 grams of CO₂ in Europe (or 119 grams of CO₂ per kilometre), while a 2020 study also found that ride-hailing trips resulted in an estimated 69% more climate pollution, on average, than the trips they displace.
But I’ll give it to them, they tried and it’s an interesting concept… maybe not just for everyone — although, every cyclist who’s dreamed of downing a drink while on your Zwift or Peloton (I say dreamed because if you’ve already done it, why? And yes, we’d definitely like to speak to you), you can now do it with your mates too.
But either way, let us know what do you make of it? If you’re in London, are you planning to go down (on a bike, I imagine) and have a pint? Or are you going to give it a skip and stick to the good ol’, same ol’ ale at your local pub?
When drivers think they can be faster than cyclists on London roads
#SMALDICKENERGY driver.
He thinks he can be faster than cyclist on London road.
Using his car to show off his power.
He couldnt go 200 yards before most of the cyclists overtook him… pic.twitter.com/NQjTgpJYlG— SanjayLalwani 🌍🚴 (@i_SanjayLalwani) October 3, 2024
Wout's back on the bike! Van Aert posts 32km ride on Strava, marking a return to cycling after Vuelta crash
Wout van Aert, fresh off the back of signing a “lifelong” contract with Visma-Lease a Bike, is finally back on his back, after his crash at Vuelta a España.
Far from his usual monster rides (remember, when he was beating cyclists’ PRs in Glasgow on an OVO bike?), but we’re glad to see the 29-year-old back on the saddle after a tough road season!
Council says “we’d rather cyclists did not ride up” Snake Pass “construction site”, but people on bikes “welcome” to use one side of infamous road during landslip works (before turning around at the top)
Cyclists are welcome to use the Glossop side of the A57 Snake Pass when it is closed to all road users later this month for repairs to sections once again affected by landslips, before performing a U-turn at the summit and heading back in the opposite direction, Derbyshire County Council has said.
Anyone looking for a Christmas read/gift? The first ever anthology of Jo Burt’s much loved cult comic strip 'Mints' is available for pre-order
I know, I know — it’s only the first week of October, but this one’s for those who like to get their Christmas prep done early! And if you’re looking for a short and sweet read, or one to gift your dear ones, here’s a suggestion: road.cc contributor Jo Burt (aka VecchioJo) has his comic anthology “Lost Summers and Half-Forgotten Afternoons: A Mint Sauce collection” available for pre-order.
It’s the first ever anthology of Jo Burt’s much loved cult comic strip, and comes with bonus limited-edition Mint Sauce stickers! If you’re wondering what’s it all about, the book details the adventures of Mint, a mountain-biking sheep, have amused and delighted readers for over three decades. Join Mint as he rides through an enchanting, bucolic world in which Death stalks the whaleback hills of the South Downs and Summer is a beautiful, capricious goddess.
Jo Burt has been drawing the Mint Sauce cartoon since 1987 and this is the first time it has ever been collected in a book. Featuring a new six-page story, a selection of classic strips from 1987-2023 and calendar images, plus commentary and an introduction by Jo.
BBC says calling camera cyclist "vigilante" was "inappropriate"
An update on the day’s big story about the BBC referring to camera cyclist Tim from Birmingham as a “vigilante”…
We reached out to them about their usage of the term “vigilante” and they replied, saying: “The initial language used was inappropriate so it has since been amended. It was a single mention and removed quickly.”
“No war between cyclists and drivers”, say road safety campaigners, as apologetic BBC backtracks after “inappropriately” describing camera cyclist as “vigilante”
There is no “war” between cyclists and motorists on Britain’s roads, two of the UK’s most prolific camera cycling advocates have claimed, after it was revealed that around 90 per cent of the 150,000 clips of alleged driving offences submitted to police forces in England and Wales have resulted in prosecutions.
However, after covering the rapid growth in third-party road safety reporting in a news article and in a BBC Breakfast segment on Friday, the BBC has been criticised by cyclists for referring to both Mike van Erp (best known as CyclingMikey) and Tim on Two Wheels as “vigilantes”, with Van Erp arguing that cyclists who submit footage to the police are, in fact, the “opposite of vigilantes”.
“Amazing to see the BBC getting this wrong”: Camera cyclist who helped police catch hundreds of bad drivers “disappointed” in BBC for labelling him “vigilante”, as Adam Tranter and other cyclists also criticise BBC for now-corrected “mistake”
The Beeb’s done a report on the cyclist some might know by his Twitter username ‘Tim on two wheels’, titled: ‘The cyclist helping to catch hundreds of bad drivers’, and it’s already stirred up a pothole-sized controversy.
Although they have edited to make the correction, the original edition of the report described Tim as a “vigilante cyclist” — something that was pointed out in the live blog comments by road.cc reader Hirsuite, as well as on Twitter by Adam Tranter, the former walking and cycling commissioner for West Midlands.
Tranter wrote: “A vigilante is someone who attempts to apprehend and punish someone who has committed a crime, without the involvement of law enforcement.
“A person who encounters a potential crime and passes evidence to police is called a witness. Amazing to see the BBC getting this wrong.”
It’s even more disappointing when you’re the cyclist involved. Thank you for raising this Adam. Very poor show from BBC Online.
— Tim on two wheels (@2wheelsgoodBrum) October 4, 2024
Tim himself has also replied to Tranter’s post, saying: “It’s even more disappointing when you’re the cyclist involved. Thank you for raising this Adam. Very poor show from BBC Online.”
He added: “The article has now been changed. They were very apologetic. It’s a journalistic cliche.”
In case you missed it, CyclingMikey also appeared on the BBC Breakfast morning show, and had to correct the presenters when they once again referred to camera cyclists as “vigilantes”.
Other cyclists were also critical of the BBC, one person writing: “Oh they know what they’re doing, it’s deliberate clickbait anti-cycling misinformation.”
Another cyclist pointed out that the image used as the lead picture for the BBC’s report is not even one from the helmet cam — or any camera of a cyclist, but instead taken from a car’s dash cam.
Neil Tattersall wrote: “More ridiculous when you consider that the image used has clearly been captured by a car driver. Fancy, another driver shopping ‘one of their own’. The ‘us and them’ narrative is pathetic. It’s not journalism, it’s not even ‘reporting,’ it’s just low-ball, clickbait ‘othering’.”
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It's not really even taxpayers money. Calling it that is part of the continued attempt by the right to frame public finances in the same way as personal finances in order to persuade people to support spending cuts.
We can probably also predict the UCI taking a nice chunk of change to put their logo on kit so it can be used in the peloton.
I'm going to defend Steve slightly here. I disagreed with him on the larger front lights, where in a given "programme" you an still cycle through high/medium/low/flashing modes, which is plenty to cover most use cases, without needing to change into a different programme. But with these small lights, each "programme" only consists of a single constant level and single flashing level. And with only six options in total, cycling through all of them wouldn't seem too onerous. I certainly find with my TraceR, if I'm riding by myself I'll typically use Programme 1 (the brightest option), but if I'm riding with other other people , I want to drop the power down to a lower level, which does mean changing programme. Given my usual cycling club meeting point is ~20 minutes from home, this means starting in P1, changing to P3 when I get to the meeting point, then changing back to P1 for the ride home. Again, you do get used to it and it's not the end of the world, but it ends up being more faff than just cycling through a few more options, as you would with pretty much any other light. I'm also going to agree that the button can be a bit hard to find, especially with gloves. I don't think it would be a problem for a front light where you can see what you're doing, but trying to press the button on a seatpost-mounted TraceR whilst riding can be tricky! All that said, my TraceR, like my Sirius, is still going strong after several years. I have various other lights knocking around, but the TraceR is still the one I reach for first.
I did not want to click in so I'm assuming that Lancaster Police are more interested in catching the person who sprayed the dog faeces than the person who didn't clear it up. Spraying it makes it easier to spot so that someone else doesn't tread in it, helps authorities identify it so that they can clear it up, and maybe, just maybe, the perpetrator will see it and feel a tiny bit ashamed. Shame on you Lancaster Police, but then that is what others here have been saying for a long time.
Sadly yes, the UCI does need to apply some thought before this all gets to the peleton. It can't be caught banning rider protection, but we can definitely predict: - Some riders seeing airbags as a reason to take risks that they previously would have avoided. - Rules around what happens to a rider when their airbag actually deploys (rather than the dodgy head impact roadside checks we currently see, it would allow a clean 'your out rule' - but teams are never going to like that, especially in multiday races (probably part of why the head impact accelerometers used in other sports haven't appeared in cycle helmets)). - Teams using them as a method to also sneak in aerodynamic advantages. Without some rules it will turn into an all out design war with rider cooling and actual effectiveness of the airbags taking a rear seat). - Cost. Arguments about what happens when some of a race have airbags but not all. Does it need to be mandated as all or none, and if so, at what level of racing?
Note that Deda measures handlebars outside to outside. So you need to deduct 2cm to obtain the center to center width for each listed size.
Well in a sense, it ended up being their own money they wasted, and presumably they are a tax payer, so maybe the software knew what it was doing to start with.
Victims, not witnesses, have the right to know.
Apologies for the misplaced apostrophe in taxpayers', voice recognition software does its thing once again. PLEASE can we have the edit function back?
Good to see the Mini driver got nearly £1000 of costs on top of the fine and points, maybe they will think twice in future about wasting court time and taxpayer's money when they are so clearly bang to rights. This smacks of the usual defence lawyer stratagem of taking it to court in the hope that the witness won't show up.
67 thoughts on ““Amazing to see the BBC getting this wrong”: Camera cyclist “disappointed” after BBC calls him “vigilante” in now-corrected mistake; Uber’s cycling pub with £5.50 Happy Hour pints; Pogačar’s rainbow jersey; WTF electrical box bike? + more on the live blog”
Quote:
Christmas Day 2020, being unable to see the family due to the pandemic Mrs H and I did a 200 mile ride on Zwift for charity (100 miles each, alternating 20 mile segments) to which many road.cc readers generously subscribed, helping raise over £1450 for the charity Toilet Twinning which builds sanitary facilities in some of the poorest areas on earth. Anyway, the last five miles of my final stint were definitely accompanied by a Christmas pint of real ale and indeed a festive cigar!
Chapeau. Did my first Festive
Chapeau. Did my first Festive 500 (indoors only; does it even count) last year. Not a big drinker anymore, but did enjoy eating yule log on the trainer.
quiff wrote:
I say it definitely counts, I’ve done three indoor centuries (miles) and each one I found much harder than any of the centuries I’ve done outdoors, no so much in physical terms but in terms of not quitting mentally.
I’m not an indoor cyclist but
I’m not an indoor cyclist but I agree – there is more stimulation outside and also motivation e.g. “if I don’t do the next 30 miles I’m going to have a really expensive cab ride home – if I can get one…”
Indoors – you can always just get off and stretch your legs / have a cup of tea …
Yes indeed, and I used to set
Yes indeed, and I used to set up my trainer in the kitchen so I could look out at the garden as I was riding, knowing there’s a fridge six feet behind you with beers in it is a sore temptation! The one benefit apart from fitness is that it makes you appreciate riding outside so much more. The great skijumper Jens Weissflog used to do his practice jumps wearing a suit with lead weights sewn in so that when he jumped in competition it felt as though he was flying – going from indoors to outdoors is a bit like that. Plus of course living in central London there’s not much in the way of sustained hills to train on so it’s good to do the occasional Alpe or Ventoux to keep one’s hand in…
More anti cycling bollocks
More anti cycling bollocks from the BBC
Although they have corrected it.
No comment on the cyclist using the motorway though.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly29m5rrd4o
I believe the cyclist in question is on here at 0715 (and 30 secs)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0023gjg
Hirsute wrote:
The corrected version of the article and the piece on BBC Breakfast (which also featured Mikey) are more balanced – though the Breakfast presenters were desperately trying and failing to make it a wedge issue.
I wonder what prompted the
I wonder what prompted the amendment.
I hope they learn the meaning of vigilante and how it does NOT apply to most of us.
Hirsute wrote:
Where does the cyclist use the motorway?
It was a quip from twitter –
It was a quip from twitter – the headline is about a cyclist and underneath is a photo of dangerous driving – so the cyclist must have been on the A38(M) !
Hirsute wrote:
Ah thank you – got confused by the dashcam footahe from the van!
I’ve got a thing against
I’ve got a thing against cycle generated electricity despite it seeming like a great idea. The problem is the economics and that people are rubbish at producing power – solar panels are almost always cheaper and far more effective. As a gimmick, it works okay, but reminds me too much of a Black Mirror episode.
Wait – are you saying I have
Wait – are you saying I have to ditch all my dynamo-powered lights?! (Well – “magneto” properly I think?)
Also agree that this is perhaps a fun gimmick but nonsense in general, although there may be specific instances where very inefficient human power is actually a good idea (e.g. because working together fulfils a social function, or having to put effort into something means people value it more, or for reasons of resilience and sustainability it’s just not a good idea to start on some high-tech solutions).
RE the electrical box “e-bike
RE the electrical box “e-bike” – to be clear, I very much assume this would not qualify as an EAPC (for one thing it doesn’t appear to have pedals) and so would, in the UK, be considered an electric motorbike.
I’m sure that was in one of
I’m sure that was in one of the Star Wars sequels…
Pedantry corner: that’s not a
Pedantry corner: that’s not a decoy e-bike; it’s a camouflaged e-bike*. A decoy e-bike would be something that looked like an e-bike, but wasn’t (or was, but was a cheap, duff one) deployed to distract people from nicking your actual e-bike.
Also, isn’t £5.50 cheap for a pint pretty much anywhere these days?
[* Edit: except OnYerBike is correct – it’s a camouflaged e-moped/e-motorbike]
More for pedantry corner.
More for pedantry corner.
Thats not Pogs World Championship Jersey — its his World Champs Skinsuit.
Pedantry corner #2
Pedantry corner #3
Bless the UCI, they have 20 pages of rules on where the logos can go:
I wouldn’t go anywhere near
I wouldn’t go anywhere near another Uber product if you already use them for something else ..
Couple had a claim following a crash and life changing injuries in a Uber … it was rejected because of an Uber Eats agreement forces arbitration and removes ability to claim through courts.
[Article explains far better than me]
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/02/nx-s1-5136615/uber-car-crash-lawsuit-uber-eats-arbitration-terms
I think Disney also tried
I think Disney also tried this recently – your injury at Disneyland is covered by the arbitration agreement you signed when you got a free one week trial of Disney+
I’m not sure they could get
I’m not sure they could get away with that in the UK because for several years now, following a High Court ruling, Uber drivers count as employees of the company rather than independent self-employed workers, so although their T&Cs still (I believe) have the “no liability” clause they would have trouble sustaining that in court, I don’t know if anyone has put it to the test yet. Additionally of course the driver has to have their own insurance so even if the company successfully argues that it has no corporate liability an injured passenger can still make a claim against the individual driver.
Given the BBC’s incorrect use
Given the BBC’s incorrect use of the word (“vigilante” cyclist)… and how almost none of us (camera cyclists) actually attempt to issue our own punishment on drivers…
Is it worth pointing out that there are actually a lot of VIGILANTE DRIVERS around, as seen by the numerous clips online showing drivers doing punishment passes and other actions that would count as taking the law/punishment into their (driver’s) own hands when they incorrectly think cyclists have done something wrong?
Travis Bickle dressed from
Travis Bickle dressed from head to toe in lycra.
Punishment passes are traffic
Punishment passes are traffic offences and other actions possibly criminal offences; nothing to do with vigilante action, which relates to people taking the actions of law enforcement into their own hands; cough cycling mikey cough..
grOg wrote:
Punishment passes are prosecuted as careless driving, which is a criminal offence. Recording a crime and reporting it to the police for action is the very opposite of taking law enforcement into your own hands, it’s asking the police to enforce the law. Maybe I was wrong about you, I always assumed that you were turfed from the UK police force for gross misconduct, perhaps it was just that even in this day and age the authorities were embarrassed to be employing a police officer who clearly has not the slightest knowledge of the law.
Punishment passes can follow
Punishment passes can follow from perceived law breaking by cyclists in the eyes of drivers who are ignorant of the highway code and traffic laws. A punishment pass is an example of vigilante action by using a 1.5T vehicle as a weapon to enforce supposed law infractions.
Just got round to reading the
Just got round to reading the BBC article about vigilante camera cyclists.
“Police forces in England and Wales have revealed the public is sending them 150,000 clips every year, with an estimated 90% resulting in drivers being sanctioned.”
I wonder where the 90% figure is from, given we know many forces ignore video evidence and the Met police is now failing to do anything on most reports due to the volume of them coming in.
I think that’s an error. It
I think that’s an error. It does say “Around 90% of videos sent to West Midlands Police’s traffic investigations unit result in sanctions against drivers.” which is what was said in the interview, so I guess they have misapplied that to all forces.
Aha.
Aha.
In which case it is worth asking them to amend the article again.
“When drivers think they can
“When drivers think they can be faster than cyclists on London roads”
Can anyone else make out the vehicle reg?
Looks illegal to me.
mitsky wrote:
Looks like K9XMX, which is a legal registration but according to the DVLA ought to be on a black Volkswagen. Cloned plate, maybe? Not uncommon round these parts (quite close to me) and getting more common with the rise in LTN cameras. It would explain why the driver feels able to break the law with impunity at a junction that has a number of prominent cameras.
Think it’s K9XNX which is a
Think it’s K9XNX which is a white 330e
Ah good, hopefully the camera
Ah good, hopefully the camera person will report them and get some action taken then!
Pretty sure even if the
Pretty sure even if the registration itself is legal, the registration plate is illegal – should be “K9 XNX” rather than “K9XN X” and the characters look too close together.
One for wtjs
One for wtjs
I imagine it’s one he has reported !!
That’s some catch, that catch
That’s some catch, that catch-22!
So, commit enough different
So, commit enough different crimes at the same time and it becomes too much effort for the police to do anything about it? Need to remember that one…
I had this situation come up
I had this situation come up here
https://youtu.be/eLZItGi5xuA
Got close passed by a driver, submitted my report with video.
The Met police chose to issue an NIP to identify the driver to either issue a warning or prosecute.
Turned out the plates were cloned so the police said they couldn’t identify the driver.
So they had 2 issues worth pursuing:
1) the dangerous close pass
and
2) the illegal cloned plates…
but chose to give up and do nothing.
Who’s cloning plates on a
Who’s cloning plates on a minibus?! Makes me wonder – were the plates actually cloned, or did the driver just say “wasn’t me – plates must have been cloned” and the police went along with it?
Sorry, to clarify, the driver
Sorry, to clarify, the driver of the minibus got an awareness course.
It was the driver of the car behind the minibus that was using cloned plates.
OnYerBike wrote:
I know mitsky has clarified it wasn’t the minibus that was cloned – but people don’t always clone plates to use on the same type of vehicle. Mine were cloned once. Thankfully they were used on a car of the same brand, but very clearly a different model and colour, meaning it was straightforward to refute the penalty charge notice I received.
My dad’s plates where cloned.
My dad’s plates where cloned.
Same make, type and colour car.
Dad got several tickets, police showed up cause he had not payed for fuel, speeding tickets etc.
He had to prove where he was at times the crimes where commited..
Keesvant wrote:
When that happens, is it possible for the legitimate driver to get their plates changed?
hawkinspeter wrote:
Yes, if you report it to the DVLA and they note that your registration is fraudulently being used in multiple crimes they may issue you a new registration number. I believe this is at their discretion though.
If they don’t, then for ~£150
If they don’t, then for ~£150-£200 you can buy a cheap registration and transfer it.
How do you suggest they find
How do you suggest they find the driver with the cloned plates if he doesn’t live at the address where the car is registered?
If this were a murder I could understand the police throwing unlimited resources at it.
“we have taken appropriate
“we have taken appropriate action by way of putting reports on the PNC (Police National Computer) & #ANPR, as it is suspected the vehicle is being used illegally, it then can be stopped by patrolling officers”
How does a car not have a
How does a car not have a current keeper? If there isn’t a new keeper then surely the buck stops with the old keeper?
From the Book of “I know my
From the Book of “I know my rights”: When the Law inquired of Cain, “Where is thy V5C for thy rover?” Cain arrogantly replied with the question, “Am I my rover’s keeper?”
I guess we should be be shocked at the police saying “we can’t do anything about vehicle crime because, er … the criminal didn’t legally register it, or did something fiendishly clever and dastardly like put on fake plates”, but …
You’d think the police could
You’d think the police could apply that logic.
Especially as they use similar logic for cases where the owner declares that the driver at the time of the incident is now “abroad”.
The police know they can usually not chase that individual and some use it as a get out so the police apply the penalty to the owner.
I don’t understand why this
I don’t understand why this doesn’t put a flag on that vehicle and it’s stopped at the first ANPR hit as it’s suspicious. Even if they don’t stop it, don’t fixed ANPR cameras give them an idea where and when it’s being used most and they could be in the right place at the right time?
“Vigilante”:
“Vigilante”:
a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are. thought to be inadequate.
Van Erp and others like him, are literally vigilantes. If some people choose to get emotive over the term, that’s up to them.
The fact that the BBC has instantly caved in over this, surprises me not one little bit. Facts went out the window with them a long time ago, unless it’s carefully selected, BBC-approved facts of course.
Please do explain what
Please do explain what enforcement is carried out
Fines, arrest, driving ban, points, beaten up, car crushed?
Another moronic troll.
Do shut up you cretin, Van
Do shut up you cretin, Van Erp and others present evidence to the police with the intention (and often success) of procuring prosecution. That’s vigilantism.
If you can’t react to someone else’s point of view without spitting out your dummy, perhaps try another nursery.
Vo2Maxi wrote:
It literally isn’t, by the dictionary definition of “vigilantism”, because they’re handing evidence to the authorities and the authorities are carrying out the enforcement. For it to be vigilantism, they’d have to be deciding guilt, apprehending suspects, and dealing out punishment by themselves, all without the knowledge/authority of the police/courts. Someone making correct use of official, existing legal system is – by definition – not a vigilante, because a vigilante – by definition – operates outside/against the legal system.
As above – your (totally incorrect) definition of vigilantism would include anyone dialling 999 to report a crime.
Vo2Maxi wrote:
Vigilantism is seeking out malefactors and meting out punishment on them oneself without recourse to the law. Reporting malefactors to the authorities for legal prosecution is not. It really is that simple.
“present evidence to the
“present evidence to the police”
Just as anyone would do who witnessed an assault or robbery or burglary.
You completed failed to demonstrate how your definition of vigilantism applies to them – you simply assert that reporting to a police portal is vigilantism.
You are either trolling in general and trolling most people on here who do make reports or you are very stupid.
Vo2Maxi wrote:
Do you have to put in a lot of practise to be this stupid or does it come naturally?
Vo2Maxi wrote:
You should take your own advice, since you’re plain wrong.
I would advise that you don’t use words if you don’t know their meaning. It makes you look very stupid.
The quote you included
The quote you included literally disproves your own point.
…Van Erp and others like him, are literally vigilantes.— Vo2Maxi
Except theyre not, because they’re not “undertaking law enforcement”. “Law Enforcement” is defined as:
or
Van Erp et al. aren’t doing any of these things – they record evidence of crimes, pass them to the authorities, and they carry out the law enforcement. Van Erp et al, are literally witnesses, not vigilantes. If they are vigilantes, then so is anyone who dials 999.
Well you’re either trolling
Well you’re either trolling or spectacularly thick. CM and other camera cyclists (self included) do not enforce any laws, they report lawbreakers to the appropriate authorities for enforcement. By your definition if someone is burgling your house and a concerned citizen calls the police, they are a vigilante. Actually perhaps you’re trolling and spectacularly thick, your comment would seem to indicate that.
Tranter wrote: “A vigilante
Tranter wrote: “A vigilante is someone who attempts to apprehend and punish someone who has committed a crime, without the involvement of law enforcement.” This is something Van Erp does that other camera cyclists don’t do; he verbally and/or physically confronts drivers and blocks some drivers from driving on, which is a form of apprehension and punishment; he also turns up at court when police prosecute the drivers he reports, to further involve himself in the legal process. Additionally, what he does would be construed as road rage in my non-UK jurisdiction, which is a criminal offence.
Let’s see now, how many
Let’s see now, how many things have you got wrong: verbally confronting someone is neither apprehension or punishment; he blocks people from breaking road laws, again he doesn’t apprehend or punish them, once they stop attempting to break the law he does not detain them; in virtually every case that goes to court where a witness has submitted camera footage they will be asked to appear in court to verify what happened, he’s not turning up at court for the hell of it, he’s asked to appear; what constitutes road rage under Australian law has no relevance to the UK and in any case nothing CM does would fall into that category.
So an excellent effort, every single thing you said is wrong.
He turns up as a witness as
He turns up as a witness as required isn’t the gotcha you imagine.
Thank goodness we don’t have australia’s laws here.
edit: I should have made the important point that a few drivers opt for court in the hope that the witness will not turn up and the case will be dropped. Hence mikey making sure he does attend court.
Hirsute wrote:
I very much doubt what he says about Australian law is true in any way; I’ve looked online and there isn’t a word I can find in either national or state law that would make CM’s actions be classified as road rage. Considering he claims to have been a UK police officer and yet time and again shows that he doesn’t know UK law, I think we can take his statements on Australian law with a very large pinch of salt.
More BBC cycling content on
More BBC cycling content on R4 at 09:00 Sunday from Paddy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0023pgt
Any chance of a link to pre
Any chance of a link to pre-order the Mint Sauce book