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Police claims reporting on bad drivers is “making roads safer”, as CyclingMikey urges more cyclists to do it; Geraint Thomas asks Pogačar to “take it easy” at Giro and Tour; Are shoeys à la Daniel Ricciardo a thing in cycling now? + more on the live blog

Hold steady, the weekend’s almost here… Adwitiya takes the reins to the live blog this Thursday, bringing you all the cycling news you need

SUMMARY

25 January 2024, 09:13
Third-party reporting of drivers discussed on Channel 5, with CyclingMikey urging more cyclists to do it and the police claiming it’s “making roads safer”
CyclingMikey talks about speed limit for cyclists on Jeremy Vine show (Twitter)

Is the public finally coming around to accepting third-party reporting of dangerous or careless drivers, or are people concerned of acting as vigilantes by submitting evidence to the police?

Last year, Mr Loophole made some comments about cyclists running cameras and submitting footage of drivers using mobile phones, calling it dangerous but also at the same time saying that he does not "want to live in a snitch society" and called camera cyclists "a danger", arguing that reporting footage to the police has become "an industry".

From social media comments under many cyclists' posts, such as CyclingMikey, the Dutch cyclist in London who's so far reported close to 2,000 drivers to the police, opinion always seem to be split. But has the public started coming around to realising the dangers of doing so and the benefits of third-party reporting?

Let's go Channel 5 News' latest report from yesterday evening, where they seemed to ask three people in random the same question.

> "Stoking cyclist hate will get him more publicity": CyclingMikey hits back at Mr Loophole's latest attack on "snitch society" camera cyclists

"So many things happen on the road now everyday, you'd be reporting something every five minutes," one driver said. Another person felt that sometimes they'd wish to do it, but at the same time they feared acting like a vigilante, while another driver outright denied that they'd report other drivers. "It's the police's job, isn't it?" he said.

 However, West Mercia Police's PC Jim Roberts claimed that the police is rather keen on more people doing so. "By the general public submitting dashcam footage to us and then those drivers being dealt with, it's sending a message and it is making our roads safer," he said.

Figures shared with Channel 5 showed that over 33,000 videos were submitted to police in England and Wales last year, up by 21 per cent on 2022, and an increase by almost 300 per cent over 2020. 70 per cent of these reports have led to police action, the broadcast said.

> Police force criticised for one close pass prosecution from 286 submissions admits need to review how reports are managed

The National Police Chiefs' Council also told Channel 5 that they welcome that technology can help them, with one in every five drivers running a dashcam and an even higher estimate for cyclists, the news broadcaster said.

And of course, how can a segment about third-party reporting conclude without CyclingMikey and a debate about his actions.

"Somebody's got to step up and do it, and there are some of those in society at least who do it," said the cyclist Mike van Erp, better known as CyclingMikey in these corners of the internet.

However, the host echoed the lawyer extraordinaire the thoughts of Nick Freeman, better known as Mr Loophole in these corners of the internet, when he asked reporter Tessa Chapman: "There are some people who might be watching that who feel like being involved in that, you might be a snitch..."

Cyclists on social media, however, seemed to disagree.

"Anyone calling someone else a snitch for reporting illegal and dangerous driving to the police needs to promise not to tell the police if they get mugged or burgled," wrote one person, while another applauded Channel 5 for the "great piece", adding: "Those of us who use dash and cycle cams to report road danger incidents are helping to protect everyone from road danger. And showing us just how dangerous some drivers and their attitudes are. I have no empathy with bad drivers whatsoever."

So what is it, is reporting dangerous drivers the straw which breaks the camel's back and brings upon us a "snitch society", or is it just people doing their bit to make roads safer for everyone else?

25 January 2024, 15:34
Sam Welsford shoey, Tour Down Under 2024 (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
Sam Welsford shows off Australian roots with a shoey that'd make Daniel Ricciardo proud

The Tour Down Under is wrapped up, with home hero and sprinter Sam Welsford of Bora-Hansgrohe ending the Tour Down Under with the most victories and the points jersey.

Now, I feared the day this would happen, but by the looks of it, shoey has made an entry to cycling. Love it or hate it, once the floodgates are open, there might be no going back.

And the doors to this new world were unlocked by none other than Welsford, who celebrated his glory on the podium in the most Australian way possible: a 'shoey', à la Daniel Ricciardo from Formula 1 (believe it or not, the suits at FIA, F1's governing body, even got the word 'shoey' trademarked after Ricciardo's antics became a thing of fame, even though it originated in Australia some 15 years ago by a surfing and fishing brand).

No, don't look away now. If F1 fans have endured this for years, even if it meant seeing F1 world's honey-badger, the always-lovable Ricciardo being on the podium, I'm sure cycling fans can sit through the image and taste of warm, smelly, Spesh (and bacteria) flavoured champagne drank straight from the shoes Welsford just spent hours riding in.

*in Jose Mourinho voice* This is Australian 'eritage.

25 January 2024, 10:50
2024 Ineos Gobik kit Geraint Thomas - 1
"Mate honestly, I think you need to take it easy": Geraint Thomas' cheeky advice to Tadej Pogačar as both set to ride Giro and Tour

Aren't there days when you're all perked and hyped up, confident in your abilities and feeling like your best self, ready to take on the world, or in this case, the men's pro peloton and ride two back-to-back Grand Tours, only to be soon brought down to earth by a pesky Slovenian?

Yeah, happens to me all the time... and Geraint Thomas too.

In case you didn't catch G's daring declaration last evening that at 38 years of age, after spending almost two decades at the top level of cycling, the Welshman is attempting what 99 per cent of top atheletes in their best shape wouldn't dream of: ride both Giro d'Italia and Tour de France in 2024.

But as Thomas shared the news on his social media, who else but Tadej Pogačar (these perpetually online Gen Z kids I tell you) was quick to sense a feeling of competition after the two-time Tour winner also announced in a grand, internet-breaking fashion that he is also set to ride both Giro and the Tour, leaving cycling fans pulling their hair out trying to figure if we are going to get the most exciting season from Tadej or if it's a vain attempt.

> “Let’s not think about the double, let’s just go to enjoy racing”: Pogačar confirms 2024 plans, including Giro, Tour, Olympics, and world championships tilts + poll results

Tour de France 2022 stage 12 (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)

Tour de France 2022 stage 12 (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)

"See you soon," texted Pogačar to Thomas. "Ah s***," Thomas thought to himself, probably.

"Forgot about this guy. Mate honestly, I think you need to take it easy. You’re still young. One more year will make the world of difference. Go Giro/Tour in 2025," wrote Thomas on Instagram sharing a screenshot of Pogačar's text.

Let's see if Thomas can succeed in convincing him and another Slovenian, along with a Dane and maybe a Belgian. He's got a chance then surely?

25 January 2024, 14:32
To report or not to report? Your reaction to the third-party police submission debate...

In the last few years, we've seen a rise of affordable, good quality bike cameras, making it all the more easier to submit footage of all the bad, unwanted, and unfortunately, sometimes even scary stuff that happens on your ride. And that's obviously led to more and more cyclists sending in submissions of poor driving to the third-party reporting portals set up by the police.

> Best bike cameras 2024 — enhance your cycling experience and record the good and bad bits of your ride with a quality cam

Channel 5 News decided to venture into this debate today, with a voxpop of three people on the streets asking them if they thought reporting was a good idea, or would that mean "snitching" on fellow road users. So we asked you, our audience the same question, and the responses are in. 

mitsky: Anyone who dislikes third party reporting (ie from cyclists/motorists) of dangerous driving is condoning it and accepting

1) the needless injuries and deaths of people, including potentially themselves and their loved ones
2) that they themselves and everyone else will pay increased insurance premiums due to the costs of dangerous driving - as found by courts prosecuting dangerous drivers, applying points to their licences and insurance renewals going up (but nowhere near enough to cover damage caused by the driver's actions)

What about doorbell cameras?
People use them to protect their properties and would happily provide any relevant footage to the police.
And if the doorbell camera catches criminals on the pavement/road doing something but not to their own property, would they "snitch" or let the crime rates in their area increase...?

hawkinspeter: The way I see it is that reporting dangerous drivers is merely standing up to bullies, or more accurately reporting bullies to the police. They throw around their tonnes of metal in an attempt to intimidate other road users and then don't like it when they get called out for it.

IanMK: "So many things happen on the road now everyday, you'd be reporting something every five minutes,"
True, which is why I set the bar relatively high so that I only report something every 1-2 hours of cycling.
No need to thank me drivers.

25 January 2024, 17:25
"Cycle to work schemes are sucking the lifeblood out of cycle shops": Bike shops tell Parliamentary Committee of "need for urgent systemic change" to Cycle to Work scheme
Cyclists at traffic lights, London © Simon MacMichael

The Association of Cycle Traders (ACT) and senior figures from cycling retailers have met with MPs from the All Party Parliamentary Group for Cycling & Walking (APPGCW) to make their case about the "need for urgent systematic change" to the Cycle to Work scheme.

The meeting comes two months after the ACT and bike shops hit back at one of the scheme's providers, Cyclescheme, for deciding to prevent retailers from charging additional fees on bikes purchased using the scheme, a move described by the representative of independent cycle retailers as the "straw that broke the camel's back".

Read more: > "Cycle to work schemes are sucking the lifeblood out of cycle shops": Bike shops tell Parliamentary Committee of "need for urgent systemic change" to Cycle to Work scheme

25 January 2024, 16:13
road.cc Podcast episode 69: We discuss the fight to reduce close passes + the UK's booming gravel scene

On episode 69 of the road.cc Podcast, we delve into the reasons and behavioural patterns that underpin most, if not all, of the 887 (and counting) examples of close passes and dangerous driving that make up our Near Miss of the Day series, aided by a road safety expert currently undertaking a PhD study on the relationship between motorists and cyclists on the road. 

 

> “Some drivers see safe cycling as a character flaw”: the fight for fewer close passes + the UK's booming gravel scene

25 January 2024, 14:59
I swear they keep getting younger... 19-year-old Paul Magnier wins on his first-ever pro cycling race

Behold, Soudal Quick-Step's next prodigal son, the 19-year-old Frenchman Paul Magnier, who's won the Trofeo Ses Salines in Spain on his first-ever showing in the men's pro peloton, finishing ahead of Alberto Dainese and teammate Luke Lamperti.

I mean, come on, he's still a teen! 2024 has already got me feeling old, and I am not even that old!

25 January 2024, 12:46
Thinking of jumping on a Froome-style low-carb fuelling regiment to get faster? Think again, as researchers — including Pogačar's nutritionist — suggest high-carb rides deliver similar results
2022 SiS beta fuel

A study published in the journal Nutrients in Spain has shed new light on fasted training vs high-carb fuelling for cyclists, with the results supporting some long-standing theories about the limited efficacy of fasted training.

The paper goes so far as to conclude that fasted training elicits no "superior results" compared to fuelling with plenty of carbohydrates, indicating that Froome-style breakfasts might not be worth the extra hunger pangs. So should cyclists be indulging in as many carbs as possible before our rides? Perhaps not quite yet...

Read more: > Fasted training doesn't make you faster: Study from researchers including Tadej Pogacar's nutrionist suggests high-carb rides deliver similar results

25 January 2024, 12:29
Scottish Transeurasian cyclist found dead in Italy after eating "dangerous mushrooms" and falling from cliff
Nice-Antibes - Cagnes sur Mer (copyright Simon MacMichael).jpeg

A Scottish cyclist, aiming to travel on a bike all the way from Dundee to India following the Mediterranean route has unfortunately died after he reportedly ate "potentially lethal" mushrooms, following which he fell from a cliff in Italy.

Steven Harper, 38 years of age and a father of two had set off from Dundee and had travelled through Spain, Andorra and France. however his bikes and other possessions were robbed in Nice. His family last heard from him on 23 November, when he texted them that he was feeling unwell after having eaten the mushrooms while foraging near Roquebrune-Cap-Martin, on the Franco-Italian border, the BBC reports.

His brother said that the Italian authorities told him that Steven was seen falling just hours after the messages were sent. Workers on a building site came to his aid and a helicopter carried him from the cliffside overlooking Ventimiglia's harbour. However, he was pronounced dead a short time later and his body kept in a morgue in Sanremo.

25 January 2024, 12:01
Chris Boardman backs Exeter councillors decision to continue low-traffic neighbourhood trials, overcoming hecklers, "dodgy" data, and political intrigue
Heavitree and Whipton Active Streets trial, Exeter (Heavitree and Whipton Liveable Neighbourhood Group)

For some context, a lot of stuff has been happening around Exeter's low-traffic neighbourhoods, which have proved to be controversial to say the least, having been a consistent target and source of vandalism, protests, and intimidation of local politicians since it was first introduced last August.

However, An attempt to put a premature halt to a controversial low traffic neighbourhood trial in Exeter has been rejected by councillors, after active travel campaigners branded a report submitted to the local authority, which advised that the scheme could be abandoned early if its targets weren’t met within weeks, “flawed” and “biased”.

> How to save a Low Traffic Neighbourhood: Overcoming hecklers, “dodgy” data, and political intrigue as councillors prevent early scrapping of active streets trial

St Chris of Boardman, meanwhile, has applauded this decision taken by the Exeter councillors, saying: "I hope everyone would agree that standing up for evidence, the majority view and letting people have the chance to try different, is exactly what we need more of."

25 January 2024, 11:34
Cadel Evans calls out Australian drivers' "bad attitudes" towards cyclists after two riders seriously injured in deliberate hit-and-runs filmed and uploaded to social media
Cadel Evans on last day of 2011 Tour de France copyright PhotoSport International.jpg

One of Australia's most famous cycling sons, 2011 Tour de France winner and 2009 world road race champion Cadel Evans, has spoken out about the danger cyclists face on the roads of his home country.

The retired pro's comments come after a shocking double hit-and-run in Melbourne left two cyclists seriously injured in hospital, two riders deliberately mown down in separate incidents a short time apart, with footage filmed by a passenger in the vehicle and uploaded to social media.

Read more: > Cadel Evans calls out Australian drivers' "bad attitudes" towards cyclists after two riders seriously injured in deliberate hit-and-runs filmed and uploaded to social media

25 January 2024, 10:29
Biniaaaam! Remarkable sprint win at Surf Coast Classic for Girmay

Hands up if you can't wait to see more of Bini in the coming classics season and may even I add, the Grand Tours...?

The Eritrean rider from Intermarché took the win in a tight sprint ahead of Ineos' Elia Viviani and Israel-Premier Tech's Corbin Strong.

He said: "I think I felt super good and I started to control the race with my team. And the plan was to find the perfect wheel in the last kilometre, so I think we had a perfect wheel to start and in the end too, I had the legs to win. I'm super happy today!"

Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after graduating with a masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Wales, and also likes to writes about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.

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36 comments

Avatar
BigDoodyBoy | 4 months ago
0 likes

Personally I am already worried about the level of surveillance in our society without encouraging everyone to report everyone else. If we think back to the 30s and 40s last century, is this something we want to bring back? If yes, then count me in. I'll happily report anything that anyone does wrong. Cycling on the pavement. No lights at night. Jumping red lights. Speeding. Littering. Adultery. Walking on the cracks in the pavement. Being in possession of an offensive wife. You name it, I'll report it. Just don't complain if you get caught. This is what you want.

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to BigDoodyBoy | 4 months ago
5 likes

I remember Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse had great characters of a pair of butchers, Paul Whitehouse's character was called Lance, I don't think the other had a name. Anyway, in one sketch Lance announced that he was becoming a vegetarian and the dialogue went something like this:

HE: Lance, have you been talking to a girl?

PW: Might have been.

HE: Right, so you want to save the little piggies? You want to give up pork chops, bacon, pork belly, loin of pork, roast pork, pork scratchings and football?

PW: Football?

HE: Yes Lance, football, what do you think the ball's made of?

PW: Little piggies?

HE: That's right Lance, little piggies. Teams come out at Highbury, getting ready for kickoff, referee looks under his arm, no ball. Oh sorry lads, we'll have to call the game off and send everyone home because Lance has been talking to some hippy bird down the pub. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT LANCE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN!

Can't think why that came to mind...

 

Avatar
stonojnr | 4 months ago
6 likes

I guess I missed the day this was explained but why is it called third party reporting now ?

Third party to me, means a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation.

If I'm submitting a video to the police, I'm primarily involved in that situation because the careless driving from the only other party involved has been done unto me, yes I know the police only like to claim we are witnesses.

But for me the only way it becomes third party, is if someone was videoing that situation as a bystander.

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wtjs replied to stonojnr | 4 months ago
4 likes

But for me the only way it becomes third party, is if someone was videoing that situation as a bystander

Yes, for the police we're all bystanders

https://upride.cc/incident/b5hol_tanker_closepassdwlcross/

https://upride.cc/incident/m222sgb_troc_closepass/

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Rendel Harris replied to stonojnr | 4 months ago
1 like

stonojnr wrote:

I guess I missed the day this was explained but why is it called third party reporting now ?

One assumes the logic is that for a prosecution to take place there must always be the party of the first part, i.e. the offender, and the party of the second part, i.e. the police/prosecuting authorities: if the police directly witness the offence then there are only two parties involved, if a report is received from a witness/victim they then become the third party. Don't think there's anything particularly sinister in it.

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IndianaJonny | 4 months ago
1 like

CyclingMikey's tactics came up this week in Modern Wisdom's interview with Rory Sutherland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaYTvwe0Wo0&t=2497s). If you want the pre-amble, start from 31:45, otherwise 34:40-41:24 more or less covers it.

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mitsky | 4 months ago
0 likes

Is this ironic or a pardox?

"Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah: High Court action over girl's pollution death"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68068828

... given that Ella's mother, Rosamund, has argued AGAINST low traffic neighbourhoods...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ella-adookissidebrah-rep...
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/nov/01/car-free-neighbourh...

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lesterama replied to mitsky | 4 months ago
1 like

Presumably she argued against them because they lived on the S Circular Rd, designed to take large volumes of traffic, where side roads are not. I don't know what measured data are currently saying about pollution on main arteries with and without LTNs.

That section of the S Circ is particularly snarled up, with two lanes going down to one. There have been various blocked side roads off there for at least 35 years, but I guess they weren't called LTNs then.

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mitsky replied to lesterama | 4 months ago
1 like

Whilst there may be a minor knock on effect of increased traffic on those roads due to the LTNs, I doubt it was much more than the ridiculous levels they were before.
So the pollution levels wouldn't have gone up by much, I guess.

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Matthew Acton-Varian replied to mitsky | 4 months ago
0 likes

There should be a dismissal on this case on the basis of Self-Inflicted Stupidity.

In civil cases against individuals, people who attempt to sue often find their cases thrown out if proven to be neglectful of their own obligations; the same should apply for this king of stuff too.

It's terrible a young girl has died, and many more suffer as a result of pollution. But by actively blocking schemes designed to avoid it without any beneficial reason her mother has been part of extending that problem putting more at risk. If anything she should take legal action against herself.

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mitsky replied to Matthew Acton-Varian | 4 months ago
0 likes

My presumption is that as a lot of LTNs are relatively recent, and thus too her words against them, this wouldn't apply.

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Rendel Harris replied to Matthew Acton-Varian | 4 months ago
3 likes

Her daughter died before the LTNs that she claims (erroneously, in my opinion, but that is somewhat beside the point) have increased pollution on the South Circular were introduced. Her actions and campaigning subsequent to her daughter's death have no bearing on her court case.

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Car Delenda Est | 4 months ago
8 likes

I never understand the 'anti-snitch' argument: the implication seems to be that you should either turn the other cheek or take justice into your own hands..

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IanMK | 4 months ago
11 likes

"So many things happen on the road now everyday, you'd be reporting something every five minutes,"

True, which is why I set the bar relatively high so that I only report something every 1-2 hours of cycling.

No need to thank me drivers.

 

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Oldfatgit | 4 months ago
10 likes

I'd be happier if my local police force - Police Scotland - actually did anything with footage submitted by cyclists.

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mitsky replied to Oldfatgit | 4 months ago
2 likes

Might be worth seeing if they do anything if video evidence reports are from drivers/pedestrians.
If there is a difference, ask why.

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hawkinspeter | 4 months ago
16 likes

The way I see it is that reporting dangerous drivers is merely standing up to bullies, or more accurately reporting bullies to the police. They throw around their tonnes of metal in an attempt to intimidate other road users and then don't like it when they get called out for it.

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Hirsute replied to hawkinspeter | 4 months ago
10 likes

Time for cycling and pedestrian road use modules to be part of driver training.

Too many people consider traffic offences to be victimless crimes. Well, they are until you injure or kill someone. Presumably these people spent hours arguing with their parents that kicking a ball indoors was ok because nothing had been broken.

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chrisonabike replied to Hirsute | 4 months ago
0 likes

A good idea - something, for where we are in the UK. But getting a driving licence here is like getting into some kind of club. It's a once per lifetime exceptional event.

Just imagine how much more effective for greater awareness / *emotional* appreciation of the point of safety rules would be if as a learner driver you, your family, your friends, your role models etc. regularly walked and cycled to get about. And you continued to do so for some trips even after getting a car. And you encountered people doing so every journey.

How do we know that? https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/02/who-cycles-in-netherlands....

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Surreyrider replied to Hirsute | 4 months ago
8 likes

Too many consider traffic offences not to be crimes full stop,.

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IanMK replied to Hirsute | 4 months ago
10 likes

"Too many people consider traffic offences to be victimless crimes."

Exactly, what I was going to say. The problem is that it's not "most people" that consider a close pass to be a victimless crime it's the police themselves. I think they can change this. Bullying is not victimless.

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Tom_77 | 4 months ago
7 likes

Quote:

with one in every five drivers running a dashcam and an even higher estimate for cyclists, the news broadcaster said.

I'm curious where these figures have come from. I've seen similar figures for dashcams but I'm not aware of any figures for cyclists using cameras.

I rarely see anyone else cycling with one, but on the other hand cycling cameras are not always obvious.

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BalladOfStruth replied to Tom_77 | 4 months ago
9 likes

Completely anecdotally, there does seem to be more of/a better argument for getting one as a cyclist than for getting one as a driver. For drivers, they're a useful help in insurance disputes - a "nice to have". For cyclists, they seem to be the only way to have any possibility of getting anything like justice/compensation/support after a collision.

I don't have a dashcam in my car (though I'll probably get one eventually), but I wouldn't dream of getting on my bike without a camera.

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stonojnr replied to Tom_77 | 4 months ago
0 likes

Me too as I can't believe the stats locally have gone anywhere but down, since they revised the format of submissions to basically make it the same if you were reporting a serious road traffic collision.

I've not submitted anything for nearly a year now, and I've had plenty of candidates

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mitsky | 4 months ago
12 likes

Anyone who dislikes third party reporting (ie from cyclists/motorists) of dangerous driving is condoning it and accepting

1) the needless injuries and deaths of people, including potentially themselves and their loved ones
2) that they themselves and everyone else will pay increased insurance premiums due to the costs of dangerous driving - as found by courts prosecuting dangerous drivers, applying points to their licences and insurance renewals going up (but nowhere near enough to cover damage caused by the driver's actions)

What about doorbell cameras?
People use them to protect their properties and would happily provide any relevant footage to the police.
And if the doorbell camera catches criminals on the pavement/road doing something but not to their own property, would they "snitch" or let the crime rates in their area increase...?

Avatar
Matthew Acton-Varian | 4 months ago
6 likes

You don't have to be a cyclist to submit camera footage for Third Party reporting. Car dashcams catch stuff regularly too, so drivers should also not hesitate to save clips to hand them in.

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Hirsute replied to Matthew Acton-Varian | 4 months ago
5 likes

Most reports are from drivers and where would youtube be without all those dashcam clips ?!

Still can't work this one out https://youtu.be/BdvlCmmukiM?t=433

driver blames cyclist

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Matthew Acton-Varian replied to Hirsute | 4 months ago
2 likes

I know but all complaints are cyclists with cameras, not cars.

 

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Hirsute replied to Matthew Acton-Varian | 4 months ago
3 likes

Of course ! Cyclists are free loaders who commit road crimes with no come back !

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RoryLydiate replied to Matthew Acton-Varian | 4 months ago
3 likes

Yup. I think you'll find that most dashcam footage about the minority of drivers who behave like idiots come from other motorists.

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