‘Cycle lane parking puts lives at risk’: Cyclist’s sticker justice for bike lane van driver; Will you be paying Strava’s increased price? (POLL); Another short cycle lane classic; Bizarre Argentinian mountain stage; New bike day + more on the live blog

67 thoughts on “‘Cycle lane parking puts lives at risk’: Cyclist’s sticker justice for bike lane van driver; Will you be paying Strava’s increased price? (POLL); Another short cycle lane classic; Bizarre Argentinian mountain stage; New bike day + more on the live blog”

1. That strava poll…probably

   That strava poll…probably needs a “I am unaffected since I use the free Strava” option.  Maybe also a “I am unaffected since I don’t use Strava, so none of my rides have ever happened” option.

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   • What about a “I installed it
     What about a “I installed it but never used it so I might delete my account in protest if I have one”?

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   • bobbinogs wrote:

     That strava poll…probably needs a “I am unaffected since I use the free Strava” option.  Maybe also a “I am unaffected since I don’t use Strava, so none of my rides have ever happened” option.

     — bobbinogs

     Why would someone visit here if they’ve never ridden a bike, though?

     I’m with you on the free Strava option though.

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     • hawkinspeter wrote:

       Why would someone visit here if they’ve never ridden a bike, though?

       — hawkinspeter

       Because they wanted to have a go at cyclists and couldn’t find any on the roads?

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2. I pay annually, so the

   I pay annually, so the increase won’t come through for me until July. Don’t think I will cancel in response. If this price increase had happened in increments over the last four years, no one would raise an eyebrow.

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3. Police Scotland isn’t the

   Police Scotland isn’t the most proactive force with regard to camera footage. I’m curious how many of those 12 drivers will be penalised.

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   • I don’t think any will:

     I don’t think any will:

      That’s 72 endorsement points and £2,400 of fines
     @PoliceScotland could issue if they’d delivered the fabled dashcam portal. Sadly I don’t have two days to report them all the old-fashioned way.

     The poster is making the point that Police Scotland’s failure to implement new ways of reporting means he doesn’t have the time at two hours per submission to do so, so they lose the income and the drivers go unpunished.

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     • Income goes to the treasury

       Income goes to the treasury and not them.  
       if they go on awareness courses that’s when the police get a cut. 

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     • There is no point in filling

       There is no point in filling in the Police Scotland Online Reporting Form, you only need to say the acronym out loud and you will know what they want you to do!

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4. A couple of things on

   A couple of things on reporting in Scotland:

   As per my comment on the linked feature, you CAN’T use the Police Scotland Online Reporting Form to report motoring offences. What you can do is use the online Contact Us form (a different form) to get in touch, but it’s effectively the same as dialing 101. In order to prosecute, the police would still need to attend in person to take a statement.

   In addition to the time spent reporting, don’t forget the time spent in court, or more annoyingly, the time the Court wastes. On numerous occassions, I have received a witness citation months in advance, only to get a phone call the day before (after I have had the time off approved by work etc.) to tell me the case has been postponed. Or I attend court, sit around for a bit, and then the case isn’t called. 

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5. Data, data, data, data…..
   Data, data, data, data…..
   I couldn’t care less about Stravas price rise. I tried it once for a few months and decided it was a slick marketeers tool for relieving the gullible of their hard earned income.
   I couldn’t care less about KOM’s and all the other crap they try to convince you is necessary to be a modern cyclist. It’s all a load of bollocks!

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   • This.
     This.

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6. I’m surprised that only 12

   I’m surprised that only 12 motorists were seen using phones, in the days before smart phones I had a post retirement stint as a lollipop man and even then 10% of the drivers passing me were on their phones.   Then there were the ones reading newspapers, eating breakfast, shaving, applying make up etc.

   I asked the police liaison officer to stand with me and take action against the lawbreakers and he said no because  they only checked mobile use when there had been an accident.

   As for Strava I use it a lot to plot my gradual decline since I started cycling 10 years ago.   I also enjoy looking at the ludicrous cheating of some riders in my o/75 age group and wonder how this gives them any satisfaction.

   So my subscription will continue.

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7. Using a smartphone in a

   Using a smartphone in a vehicle that doesn’t move doesn’t seem to me to pose any danger at all. Of course that changes if the drivers start moving.

   If this guy with a camera. wants to report really dangerous stuff that happens way too often., he should take a speedometer and monitor speeds

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   • I disagree, you’re not paying

     I disagree, you’re not paying attention to your surroundings. 
     If an emergency vehicle comes from behind will you notice it? Or if you do and you quickly move to side, did you notice the vehicle filtering down the side? These are just two examples

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   • cyclisto wrote:

     Using a smartphone in a vehicle that doesn’t move doesn’t seem to me to pose any danger at all. Of course that changes if the drivers start moving.

     If this guy with a camera. wants to report really dangerous stuff that happens way too often., he should take a speedometer and monitor speeds

     — cyclisto

     The problem is that it takes a surprisingly long time (shall look for a study on this) for a person to look up from a phone screen and properly process what is going on around their vehicle. A very common behaviour is that drivers will be staring at their phone and notice peripherally that the vehicle in front is starting to move, and so they’ll also start moving forwards even though they haven’t checked that it is safe to do so.

     I don’t think police will accept speed readings from the public as the devices are unlikely to be calibrated.

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     • I don’t think police will

       I don’t think police will accept speed readings from the public as the devices are unlikely to be calibrated

       This is such a useful dodge for the police that it has achieved the status of an axiom: All cyclists are travelling at less than 10mph at all times, except when we’re trying to get them for hitting a pedestrian, because we acknowledge no such thing as a bicycle speedometer. Lancashire Constabulary, after I had gone through the complaint process which is doomed from the start, stated that I could have been travelling at less than 10mph all the way here so there was no offence

       https://upride.cc/incident/du61vhj_stuartbraithwaitebuilders_dwlcrossclosepass/

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       • I had a similar argument with

         I had a similar argument with TVP. They patiently explained that GPS readings were not usable in court. I then suggested that they could confirm the data themselves by averaging my time taken between two fixed points. My argument, I was doing well above the 10mph limit (I was at about 17mph) , was even if they allowed for a high margin of error in the calculation, it would show that I was easily above the 10mph and if presented correctly would surely satisfy even the most sceptical. They then said they didn’t have the resources for that….what like a calculator.

         For the record I believe that Speedwatch schemes do not result in an FPN unless the driver is caught 3 times. Something that made no logical sense.

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         • They patiently explained that

           They patiently explained that GPS readings were not usable in court

           It’s another aspect to the same dodge: almost none of these offences are going anywhere near a court, but they still use this as an excuse to not even bother themselves with the joke advice letter, or the joke course. As far as the police are concerned it’s always legal to overtake a cyclist and cross single or double unbroken white lines no matter how dangerous the manoeuvre. 

         • IanMK wrote:

           They then said they didn’t have the resources for that….what like a calculator.

           — IanMK

           No. A brain.

         • IanMK wrote:

            argument, I was doing well above the 10mph limit (I was at about 17mph) , was even if they allowed for a high margin of error in the calculation, it would show that I was easily above the 10mph and if presented correctly would surely satisfy even the most sceptical. They then said they didn’t have the resources for that….what like a calculator.

           — IanMK

           I guarantee you that the majority of people couldn’t calculate a speed in MPH and estimate its accuracy, given the distance in metres and the time in seconds. Many wouldn’t even know that if you divided the former by the latter you’d have a speed in metres per second and could use Google to convert it to MPH if they didn’t know to calculate result x 3600 / 0.3048 / 5280.

       • Wazzocks of Lincolnshire.

         Wazzocks of Lincolnshire.

         A quick and repeatable calculation from the church to the bridge puts your speed at 25kph.

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   • Have you never seen the

     Have you never seen the whatsapp gap? The distracted driver in the queue who lets a largish gap appear and then either suddenly notices, or is beeped by the vehicle behind and just accelerates forward quickly then without checking if people taking advantage of the stationary traffic are crossing. Plus if they are using their phone in the queue, why would they not then carry on when the speed picks up, especially if they are expecting replies.

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     • Of course this would be

       Of course this would be dangerous if they kept up while driving even at queue speeds. But the video posted is mostly stationary vehicles (I didn’t see it all, in the part I saw all vehicles were stationary)

       For me is more dangerous allowable driver behaviors such in a moving car playing with car radio, talking to other passenger or even worse bluetooth talking, even more worse arguing. I will often advice drivers when they break the law and surprisingly often they will accept it (ok not always, so not so sure to advice to other people doing it, as getting rammed is always part of the game), but playing the policeman for such offences that aren’t really safety dangers make us seem like Karens. To make things worse, this guy actually creates risks to play the policeman, since he stops when he could possibly block the path of another cyclist, and looks not at the road and potential dangers but at a single stationary car.

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       • As was pointed out twice, the

         As was pointed out twice, the risk comes when the traffic ahead starts moving. They frequently just accelerate, usually faster than usual with the accompanying torque steer, withiut doing any checks before moving that it is safe to do so. 

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         • They frequently just

           They frequently just accelerate, usually faster than usual with the accompanying torque steer, withiut doing any checks before moving that it is safe to do so

           You can see exactly this on the YH66 UTP link in my post below. Slow to follow the car in front out of Garstang High School onto the main road because he’s on the phone, changing gear with left hand, phone in right which therefore cannot be properly in control of the wheel

         • nosferatu1001 wrote:

           As was pointed out twice, the risk comes when the traffic ahead starts moving. They frequently just accelerate, usually faster than usual with the accompanying torque steer, withiut doing any checks before moving that it is safe to do so. 

           — nosferatu1001

           Whilst that is the biggest issue, it isn’t the only issue.  When driving you need need to be fully aware of your surroundings even when stationary. e.g. is there an emergency services vehicle approaching – can you assist by maneouvring your vehicle (hopefully you stopped your vehicle with some room to maneouvre and not just stopped an inch from rear bumper of the vehicle infront).

         • I did have a debate once with

           I did have a debate once with a driver who claimed that they could wait at lights with their eyes shut and still know what was going on around them.

           They didn’t care much for cyclists either.

         • hirsute wrote:

           I did have a debate once with a driver who claimed that they could wait at lights with their eyes shut and still know as much as they usually do about what was going on around them.

           They didn’t care much for cyclists either.

           — hirsute

           Fixed

       • Hands free should be banned

         Hands free should be banned as it is no different from handheld

         https://news.stv.tv/west-central/speeding-motorist-john-paul-smith-killed-christopher-devine-in-glasgow-while-driving-on-phone

         The judge: “At the point of the collision you were speeding at 71mph considerably in excess of the limit of 50mph.

         “You were conducting a hands-free mobile telephone call, which is not in itself an offence, but is relevant to your reduced attention.

          

         Talking to a passenger does not utilise the same brain area as a phone call and passengers are able to go with the ebb and flow when they realise that the road situation requires driver attention.

         HC rule 148 covers your other two situations

          

          

          

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       • Research by the TRL also

         Research by the TRL also reveals that there is a difference between a driver holding a conversation with someone in the vehicle and with someone over a phone. When speaking with someone in the vehicle, the driver will prioritise driving over the talk when mental processing is required to compelte a driving action. When speaking over the phone, the opposite is true.

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   • That may be a factor in

     That may be a factor in whether the police decide it’s a priority for enforcement. But it’s still prohibited. Also, agree with the other comments – the problem is that the distraction doesn’t stop when the driver starts moving.  

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   • Plenty of studies on the

     Plenty of studies on the cognitive distraction lasting well beyond the point of use.

     Mark Hodson

     “I’ve been to three fatal #RTC s caused by drivers using phones in stationary traffic, children and the elderly the victims”

     there is an app speedcam anywhere https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedcamanywhere&hl=en_GB&gl=US

     but as HP says, not evidential standard

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   • cyclisto wrote:

     Using a smartphone in a vehicle that doesn’t move doesn’t seem to me to pose any danger at all. Of course that changes if the drivers start moving.

     If this guy with a camera. wants to report really dangerous stuff that happens way too often., he should take a speedometer and monitor speeds

     — cyclisto

     You could just admit you’re a bad driver.  Too many people don’t take driving seriously enough, your attitude is absolutely typical of them.

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     • I don’t think that is a fair

       I don’t think that is a fair summary of their posts.

       Bad drivers don’t identify fiddling with the radio or arguing as a problem.

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   • There is extesnive, peer

     There is extesnive, peer reviewed research into this if you care to look it up. Check out the TRL website. It takes several minutes for the brain to reset from using a phone to text or use the Internet or whatever. For those minutes, it is unsafe for someone to be driving. That is why the law is the way it is. 

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     • Taking whole minutes to

       Taking whole minutes to recover from using a phone screen seems way too much for me. If such thing existed and proved “scientifically” I would expect at least one article saying “why should you wait 10 minutes before starting your car”.

       I do admit though that eyes on screen time on a moving car seems like a great distraction, so it makes me huge impression how these huge screens of latest cars haven’t yet been somehow regulated.

       @Daveyraveygravey relax mate, peace.

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       • It’s almost as if motor

         It’s almost as if motor vehicles and driving was a massive exception now “mass motoring” has been a thing for a while.  Could it even be that there is some kind of pressure to “normalise irregularity” – especially when it comes to new gizmos people might want to sell together with said motor vehicles?

         A giant marketing tail wagging the public safety dog.

         TBH I think what this all shows – not exactly shockingly – is that we have fixed it so people can take driving far too casually and mostly get away with it.  In some ways I approve – humans are humans! but the cost is that e.g. cyclists and pedestrians have been mostly driven off the roads by fiat.  And if on the roads they’ve been made to understand it’s their responsibility to stay out of the way or otherwise make it easy for drivers – so the KSI rate for them is globally low.  Rate of road deaths is likely stuck as is.

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       • If you believe these addicts

         If you believe these addicts are only accessing their current drug of choice only whilst stationary then you are being incredibly naive.

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8. 112km of descent? Think you

   112km of descent? Think you might have slightly misread the profile there 😉

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   • I think they were saying

     I think they were saying 112km of descent and gentle uphill – making the point that the summit is bizzarrely early in the stage. But even including the ‘gentle’ uphill it’s still not quite 112km…   

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     • Have a whoosh!

       Have a whoosh! 😉

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9. Of course I’ll pay for the
   Of course I’ll pay for the extra Strava price increase, I’m not poor

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   • ChuckSneed wrote:

     Of course I’ll pay for the extra Strava price increase, I’m not poor

     — ChuckSneed

     You don’t seem able to afford punctuation at the end of your sentences.

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     • Easily missed when typing

       Easily missed when typing with one hand. 

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   • I’m lucky enough not to be

     I’m lucky enough not to be either, but that doesn’t stop me from deciding whether or not to cancel my subscription based on whether I think the app provides me with the value required to justify the price I pay. No one ever got rich by wasting money.

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   • Well I don’t even darn my old

     Well I don’t even darn my old socks any more, I just go out and buy some new ones, either in packs of three or five. Although I do still have a denim shirt I bought in 1976. A bit tight under the arms, but I think it was when I bought it.

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     • I was impressed my brother

       I was impressed my brother was wearing the jumper mum knitted 50 years ago the other weekend. I wore mine out, his was still in good nick. Mrs S has been having a bit of a purge on my “just got them comfortable” T shirts though 🙁 . Poverty is not a consideration, don’t pay for what you don’t need.

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10. There are still far, far, too

    There are still far, far, too many drivers using their phones. Increasing the FPN to £200 plus 6 points and updating the law to make just the act of holding the phone illegal behind the wheel, has had very little effect, because it’s still very difficult to get the police to take action.

    Had one this morning, drifted out of their lane towards me when I was driving. I swerved out of their way and looked over, sure enough, staring down at their phone.

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11. That’s 72 endorsement points

    That’s 72 endorsement points and £2,400 of fines @PoliceScotland could issue

    That’s Deacon Thurston, hawkinspeter and me, to name but three obsessives who keep harping on about the same old thing- we support each other by our very existence. The same process occurs with police forces- they support each other in bad behaviour: we saw recently how Sussex police had copied Lancashire Constabulary’s stupid misuse of the GDPR regulations to force people submitting offences to declare that they had ‘some form of notification on their mode of transport’ in order to legitimise them filming people committing offences against them. Of course, approximately 0% of them do display such a notification, and I have never seen one in North Lancashire. If it became useful to them, the police would have resorted to well, if your declaration that you had this notification on your bike was untrue, how can the rest of your statement be trusted? In a way, it’s like the ‘swearing cyclist’ dodge. One force ignoring a complete category of offences and clearly getting away with it emboldens another to do likewise.

    It’s police forces which essentially make the law in this country, by simply ignoring the bits they don’t like or only using it against people they don’t like. So Police Scotland is really being more honest in refusing to allow video reports of offences which they would then ignore after applying a few dodges- it is obvious they would have done nothing about these 12 offences even if the labour of reporting them had been undertaken. Lancashire just ignored these, with exact GPS timings

    https://upride.cc/incident/yh66utp_audia1_handheldmobile/  YH66 UTP

    https://upride.cc/incident/kd10wer_porsche_mobilephone/  KD10 WER

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12. National Highways are up to

    National Highways are up to their old trick of destroying bridges again – this time it’s Congham bridge in Norfolk: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/jan/25/row-growing-after-third-historic-rail-bridge-filled-in-with-concrete

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13. 12 phone drivers in an hour

    12 phone drivers in an hour doesn’t seem all that many to me, maybe it’s much worse around here but I could probably catch 12 in a minute on a bad day.

    I noticed one queueing at the top of the Redlands Road at the junction outside Reading Uni last week, seeing as I was stuck behind other badly positioned queueing drivers (travelling the opposite direction) I tapped on his window (in my thick winter cycling gloves)… He did the usual “just checking something… none of your business, etc” I responded that it is illegal and dangerous and he shouldn’t be doing it. He then claimed he was checking sat nav, which I pointed out was actually in the middle of his dashboard, he then started making threats to me for touching his car, said he was going to pull over and sort me out. I asked whether he thought that was a sensible idea etc… he then pulled into the awkward side road, and lost his place in the queue while I filtered past the queue laughing down the hill enjoying my journey safely. Hope he learned a lesson about using a phone while driving and keeping his temper under control. 🙂

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    • ChrisB200SX wrote:

      12 phone drivers in an hour doesn’t seem all that many to me, maybe it’s much worse around here but I could probably catch 12 in a minute on a bad day.

      — ChrisB200SX

      Indeed, I was thinking that the good folk of Edinburgh must be exceptionally law-abiding; if I had a helmet camera I could easily catch a dozen any day in the kilometre between Chelsea and Albert bridges.

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    • ChrisB200SX wrote:

      Hope he learned a lesson about using a phone while driving and keeping his temper under control. 🙂

      — ChrisB200SX

      Unlikely; unfortunately. He probably just thinks you delayed him and now has an irrational hatred of all cyclists. I have rarely had a positive outcome from window tapping, but still can’t help myself…  

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14. Is that very short bike lane
    Is that very short bike lane Stirchly, Birmingham? If it is where I think it is, a house on the otherside of the road used to have a pet sheep in the garden, that you could see from the top deck of the 47 bus. #benefitsofactivetravel

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    • JustTryingToGetFromAtoB wrote

      Is that very short bike lane Stirchly, Birmingham? If it is where I think it is, a house on the otherside of the road used to have a pet sheep in the garden, that you could see from the top deck of the 47 bus. #benefitsofactivetravel

      — JustTryingToGetFromAtoB

      Is the top deck of the 47 bus active travel?!

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      • quiff wrote:

        Is that very short bike lane Stirchly, Birmingham? If it is where I think it is, a house on the otherside of the road used to have a pet sheep in the garden, that you could see from the top deck of the 47 bus. #benefitsofactivetravel

        — quiff

        Is the top deck of the 47 bus active travel?!— JustTryingToGetFromAtoB

        Of course! They would do a surprise terminate at Cotteridge and you would have to walk the rest of the way home

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      • If you’re a council with a

        If you’re a council with a budget hole, or trying to fudge things so as not to scare the horses, yes.  (Buses might even be “environmentally clean transport” at a push).

        To be fair public transport will have to pick up quite a bit of slack while people adjust their expectations (or not).  The promise of the private motor vehicle was “magic carpet”.  I suspect latterly nothing less than “teleportation” will tempt people to change.  I can see much agonised opposition to “getting more than a few hundred metres under my own partial steam”. Unless some technology makes all this irrelevant or we keep on driving until inundated / fuel runs out.

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      • Of course it’s active travel,
        Of course it’s active travel, you have to climb a flight of stairs to get there ?

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15. Cyclist catches 12 drivers

    Cyclist catches 12 drivers using phones behind the wheel in an hour

    Surely if Police Scotland are not protecting the public, they are not doing their job?  I’m not familiar with the situation in Scotland, but do they have police and crime commissioners there?  If so, I would be battering their door down, demanding action.

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    • police scotland now seem to

      police scotland now seem to prefer the farcical theatre of public social responsibility, instead of actual law enforcement. i think part of the cause is that they themselves probably do this sort of thing while off-duty, and consequently perceive no need for enforcement.

      and probably wouldn’t get in trouble even if caught.

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    • do they have police and crime

      do they have police and crime commissioners there?

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-62207530

      She’s still there!

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16. The Stirchley cycle piccie

    The Stirchley cycle piccie inspired me to walk to the end of my road to picture the sign which mysteriously placed on our otherwise unsignposted not-a-cycle lane. I’d not really noticed it but checking Google its been there for a while.

    https://goo.gl/maps/YP5CvskHKZosGYBB8

    The peculiar thing is that the road opposite has the same arrangement of cycle lane running through the roundabout and gets no sign (edit: GM shows it had one but is now removed for unknown reasons, probably the car that ploughed off the roundabout last year), and there is no other signage apart from white paint for the rest of the cycle path (there is an arrow on the road which the council apparently think is adequate to indicate a shared use path – I wish they’d tell the bin men, parkers and everyone else who is annoyed at cyclists daring to use the pavement).

     

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17. I alwys put something on cars

    I alwys put something on cars parked in cycle lanes. 

    I often run out of spit before I get to work…

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18. Road CC you need to

    Road CC you need to understand your own poll results for the Strava subscription result….the question you posed was ‘will you be cancelling your subscription?’ which the result was 70% no….but the statement you’ve posted is that 70% won’t be renewing their subscription.

    unless I’m being really thick and missed something..?

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    • Seems Dan just saw No (as in

      Seems Dan just saw No (as in I wouldn’t be cancelling) and but thought the question was wouldn’t be paying the new price? Not you being thick NN.

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19. I cancelled my Strava

    I cancelled my Strava subscription a couple of weeks ago. Not because of the price rise, but because they posted an offer over the Christmas period which would give new subscribers 25% discount. At the bottom it said not applicable to existing subscribers. They shot themselves in the foot by posting it to everyone on the platform, including all the subscribers. Now, the one thing that I hate with a passion is when loyalty means nothing, and companies don’t give a fuck once they’ve got you, and are only interested in getting more signed up.

    I suspect there will be plenty more cancellations for the same reason.

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