Challenge dangerous driving or silently report? Driving instructor Ashley Neal weighs in on cyclist debate; Local angered by parking tickets vows not to drive, starts cycling; Bike lane removal protest; Cyclocross in a nutshell + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Cyclists stand in front of truck to stop it from removing a bike lane deemed as a “mistake” by the authorities... despite a 2-year public process
Portland, Oregon. One of the few American cities with a decent cycling infrastructure, and cyclists from the city were hoping to pave the way towards a greener, more inclusive urban future and bucking the trend of uber-American motonormativity.
However, they were met with an obstacle in the shape of a truck sent to strip down a cycle lane Northeast 33rd Avenue, only installed a month ago, now slated for removal by the Portland Bureau of Transportation (PBOT) without any notice.
Why? Because the Bureau deemed it as a “mistake” because they didn’t do “enough public outreach”. That is, despite the bike lane being a part of a plan that went through a 2-year public process, before being adopted by council by a 5-0 vote, with 4 of those council members still sitting today.
Thankfully, the cyclists weren’t quick to give up. Yesterday, concerned Portlanders took to the street to physically block the truck from going about with the stripping down.
“If people didn’t show up this morning, the bike lane would be gone,” wrote Jonathan Maus, cycling campaigner and editor of Bike Portland.
In fact, the information about the removal of the bike lane wasn’t even announced publicly by PBOT. Maus said: “We only found out because PBOT staff warned BikePortland anonymously that it was imminent.”
Concerned Portlanders are physically blocking a @PBOTinfo truck that had begun removing the bike lane on NE 33rd. pic.twitter.com/fxElXFNgfZ
— BikePortland (@BikePortland) November 1, 2023
Local bike advocacy group BikeLoud PDX responded by telling members to show up at the site yesterday morning. The idea was to take a closer look at the bike lanes in advance of a planned strategy session later this morning.
However, crews had already begun removing the bike lane as the activists showed up. One of them, former BikeLoud PDX Chair Kiel Johnson, rolled up to the scene and immediately stopped his bike in front of the oncoming truck. The truck driver stopped and Johnson stood there with his arms crossed.
Maus added: “It is clear that PBOT wanted this bike lane removed. Their statement to BikePortland yesterday was unambiguous. It said, “This segment of bike lane was installed by mistake and will be removed.”
Once the truck operator left the corner of the street, he simply moved to another section of the bike lane a few blocks south and started the grinding-off process again. Activists then hopped on their bikes and stood in front to stop forward progress.
Several minutes passed and the truck was driven away once again. Eventually the contractors left for the day, but BikeLoud volunteers still stood their ground, staying in shifts to make sure it didn’t return.
The @PBOTinfo crews have left. People are volunteering for shifts to remain at the site in case they return. pic.twitter.com/8diDPw5t79
— BikePortland (@BikePortland) November 1, 2023
PBOT’s Deputy Chief of Staff Cynthia Castro said” “PBOT is not continuing with removing the bike lane today, but we do need to have further conversation about this particular stretch.”
But PBOT Director Millicent Williams isn’t on that page. Based on PBOT statements and that letter given to residents this morning, Director Williams did not plan to have any further conversation. The order was to remove the bike lane and it would be gone if not for the timely protest organized by BikeLoud PDX
Maus later provided an update saying: “Stalemate on 33rd. Crews said they are just modifying the bike lane. @PBOTinfo said yesterday it would be removed.”
While this seems like a classic case of “confuse them with misinformation”, cyclists have come together to slam the authorities’ behaviour.
Cyclist Matthew Lewis wrote on Twitter: “So many city public works/transportation departments are fully rogue, and harbour so much animosity toward residents, this is only way forward.
“Until city councils get the courage to clean house, everyone should block their trucks & make it impossible for them to do more harm.”
And Bike PDX member Ike said: “Why do the people have to fight for fucking bike lanes? @PBOTinfo needs to explain itself. And also GTFO with this waste of time and resources. This is the opposite of productive. We want more bike lanes, safer streets, more walkable neighborhoods, less dirtbag drivers.”
the optics of a DOT removing safe streets infrastructure amidst a climate crisis, and growing deadly streets crisis – is… yikes! https://t.co/IaFgfrbPSb
— Mike Eliason (@holz_bau) November 1, 2023
Something tells me we haven’t seen the end of this stand-off yet…
Cyclocross in a nutshell?
Cyclocross in a nutshell. #Koppenbergcross pic.twitter.com/xjASIDF0eQ
— La Fiamma Rossa (@lafiammarossa) November 1, 2023
The show must go on! Dutch Headwind Cycling Championships to take place today despite Code Orange due to Storm Ciarán
“It’s not called the NK Tegenwindfietsen for nothing!”
The NK Tegenwindfietsen, or the Dutch Headwind Cycling Championships, is a bit of a crazy affair. Riding along the 8.5 km course against the wind on typical Dutch upright, single-speed bikes on the Oosterscheldekering (Eastern Scheldt storm surge barrier, that’s a mouthful), it’s absolutely one of the most bizarre, yet delightfully wholesome and very normal thing to do.
One of the most Dutch events on the sporting calendar, the national headwind cycling championship (NK Tegenwindfietsen), takes place in Zeeland today. Some 300 brave souls are expected to take part. https://t.co/fEJXj16rQP
— Gordon Darroch (@GordonDarroch) November 2, 2023
Contested by 300 riders every year during the autumn/winter season, with winds speeds possible over 120 km/hr, who wouldn’t like to have the bragging rights of being the most gung-ho cyclist in the Netherlands?
But this year, with the incoming Storm Ciarán resulting in a Code Orange being declared by the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, the event is still on track to take place later today.
“It’s perfect conditions here. Bleak, wet and incredibly windy,” said organizer Robrecht Stoekenbroek in the radio program Zeeland Wordt Wakker. “It’s not for nothing that it’s called the NK Tegenwindfietsen. It’s on the verge of a bit of craziness. It’s part of it that where everyone goes in we go out.”
However, if the safety is at stake, the event will be cancelled, he added. “We are keeping an eye on it very closely. If it were to become unsafe somewhere, we would act accordingly. So far, they are dream conditions. We start nicely at noon and then just keep an eye on it.”
It’s not like the event hasn’t been cancelled due to well, dangerous headwinds. In 2020, the full-force of the Storm Ciara (ominously close-name to the current storm) forced the organisers to abandon the sixth edition of the championships.
Now you won’t catch me in this time-trial ever (I’m ashamed but the Cardiff headwinds often get too much for me), but I hope those going out in the championship today have fun, and well, can just manage to move forward.
Cyclist shares shocking footage of driver ramming him off bike after close pass complaint, slams suspended sentence "an absolute waste of time"
“Attacks on cyclists are becoming much more common… I believe it’s time to give cyclists more protection under the law”…
A cyclist, injured after being deliberately rammed off his bike by a driver who had moments earlier close passed him, has shared the footage of the incident with road.cc and warned that the roads have become “very unsafe” and “attacks are becoming much more common”, suggesting that cyclists need “more protection under the law.”
Game's gone soft! Dutch Headwind Cycling Championships cancelled, because it's too windy
The hype was good until it lasted. After much talk of being hard as nails, the NK Tegenwindfietsen, or the Dutch Headwind Cycling Championships, has in fact, been called off because it’s *checks notes* too windy.
Earlier in the day, we reported the organiser of this crazy time-trial said that the conditions were “bleak, wet and incredibly windy” — perfect for the one of the most bizarre races of the cycling calendar when cyclists ride their sit-up-and-beg fixies facing gusts up to 120 km/hr for almost 9 kilometres.
“It’s not called the NK Tegenwindfietsen for nothing!” were the words from the organiser. However, with a Code Orange in place due to the current Storm Ciarán in western Europe, the Championship has after all, been cancelled.
The Dutch National Headwind Cycling championships were due to take place today but have now been CANCELLED due to strong winds.
(Video from a previous event) pic.twitter.com/yiyIKxZWq3
— Adam Tranter (@adamtranter) November 2, 2023
“We had prepared everything, everything is in the starting blocks. The weather is insane, but too intense. The peak speeds are too intense,” said the organisers, adding that the average wind speed was still tolerable (I mean not for your average live blog host), but the gusts could have compromised the safety of the participants who would’ve had to ride their bikes along the Eastern Scheldt storm surge barrier in south-eastern part of the Netherlands.
The organisers added: “And of course we don’t want that. Safety is at the top.”
The participants, however, are of course disappointed. Roald from Brielle, one of them, said: “It seems like a bad joke. The NK Tegenwindfietsen has been cancelled by strong winds.”
Omroep Zeeland reports that Roald was already ready with his bicycle when the event was called off. “It’s a shame, because I was confident that I would make it. I had taken time off work, but then I think I’ll get started anyway,” he said, adding that he would have to take the bus back home now.
"This is a win, right?": Local angered by parking tickets vows to never use car park again... now cycles to shops
Parking ticket chaos? Or opening up alternatives to driving?
Locals at Worcester, are up in arms after many drivers were hit with £60 fines since the relaxations on parking restrictions in Henwick Park were curtailed this summer.
Out of all the fuss and commotion, one frustrated driver has said that he has now started cycling to the shops fearing he would be given a parking charge notice again, reports Worcester News.
Man who receives parking fine now cycles to local shops.
This is a win, right?https://t.co/s2ysN5WdsW
— SHIFT (@goSHIFTscheme) November 2, 2023
Well, I see this as a win!
Simon Pellaud walks for Gino Mäder 🖤
Camino de Santiago km 150/222km
I walk for Gino 🖤 #iRideForGino pic.twitter.com/wwKAyhczZB— Pellaud Simon (@PellaudSimon) November 2, 2023
Safety concerns after cyclist collision at notorious roundabout, as cycling campaigner remains in hospital after separate incident
Chairwoman of the Cyclox campaign group Dr Alison Hill is being treated for a serious leg injury following last week’s incident involving a coach being driven in the city centre…
Cyclist safety concerns have again been heard in Oxford after five police cars and an ambulance attended the scene of a collision at a notorious roundabout, where a university academic was killed last year, after another collision, yesterday’s just days after the chairwoman of an Oxford cycling campaign group was left hospitalised with a serious leg injury after a further collision in the city centre.
Best spooky Halloween decoration?
Yeah it’s a little late, but so were the cycle hangars which left this cyclist in this state of desolation…
Years of waiting for a cycle hangar finally takes its toll in London #ThisIsAwkward pic.twitter.com/uYOUrvntss
— Oliver Lord (@0jhl) November 1, 2023
Challenge dangerous driving or just stick to silent reporting? Driving instructor Ashley Neal weighs in on what should cyclists do...
Liverpool-based YouTube driving instructor Ashley Neal, has come out with his take on what should cyclists do when on the receiving end of dangerous driving, and it’s one for you all to discuss.
Replying to a tweet by road.cc about the news of a motorist avoiding jail for deliberately ramming cyclist who questioned close pass, the son of former Liverpool and England footballer Phil Neal tagged the Detective Chief Superintendent of Met Police Andy Cox and asked: “Could this incident have ended without problem if your advice on challenge was different? Would you like to clarify what you think cyclist should do in these confrontational situations?”
@AndyCoxDCS could this incident have ended without problem if your advice on challenge was different? Would you like to clarify what you think cyclist should do in these confrontational situations?
— AshleyNealDrivingIns (@AshleyNealDI) October 30, 2023
When another Twitter user pointed out that this was a bad take by Neal, he countered saying: “Andy thinks challenge is acceptable, I disagree. Just report to the Police and that’s the end of it.”
The back and forth went on for quite a bit, another cyclist pointing that “as a society we should be able to hold each other to account” and that it should be acceptable to tell somebody they’re wrong, adding that “the law should protect that, not treat it as antagonistic”.
Neal responded saying: “He [Andy Cox] only thinks of things from the Police perspective. Imagine if I challenged every single person who treated myself and my learner drivers anything but perfectly. What message does that send to novice drivers?”
And I’m telling Andy he’s wrong. He only thinks of things from the Police perspective. Imagine if I challenged every single person who treated myself and my learner drivers anything but perfectly. What message does that send to novice drivers?
— AshleyNealDrivingIns (@AshleyNealDI) October 30, 2023
It’s not like Ashley Neal hasn’t tried to get his foot in cycling debates previously, saying that cyclists like CyclingMikey, who confront law-breaking drivers, actually create many road rage incidents.
In what in my opinion has turned out to be a quite meta and somewhat ironic discussion, should cyclists, who are actually the ones endangered by dangerous driving, be fearful of the fact that pointing it out to the drivers can lead to further escalation and thus, simply resort to ‘silent reporting’, hoping that the police would do their job and make the driver realise of the consequences of their actions?
Well, I don’t think there’s a right or wrong approach here per se, but as usual, we are interested to hear what you think about it…
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@jackcycles are you saying this doesn't belong on road.cc as its not a (road) cycling story and they should remove it to openborders.conspira.c ?
@Rendel Harris "So 1.2% of all prosecutions and you’re talking bollocks." That's the wrong kind of hate speech and they'll see you down the station! It is true though that some of our "defenders of free speech and the right to offend" can get ... very offended by certain speech and have threatened to go to law. And some public figures warning us of shady foreign types changing the country have a remarkable sympathy for a few dodgy foreign types who want to change the country - it just happens those are billionaires...
That won't be cheap to replace. Hope she had it insured.
@openroads - if you check the figures for number of incarcerations per 100,000 of population, England comes higher than any other Western European nation. This figures do not include Scotland and the North of Ireland. If you add those figures the UK jumps even further up the table. So there are plenty of prosecutions going on in the UK, more than in Germany, Italy, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden . . . . . . . . . . So that would suggest there is plenty of prosecution going on the UK
Excellent article and very true about thé enthusiasm thé Tour générates. It's come by thé bottom of thé hill where I live in thé Ariège several times over thé years and everyone in our small hamlet went down to watch each time.
If electric powered motorcycles are called e-bikes, shouldn't gas powered motorcycles be called g-bikes? (It makes too much sense to call them both motorcycles!)
I love this bike, but I love having money in my bank account even more.
Agree with Jackcycles’ comment above - “This isn’t a cycling story, but a police story and law and order story.” But a lot of the theft now is internationally mobile gangs who just fill up shipping containers full of bikes / power tools etc and have it on a boat within 24 hours of the theft. A lot of it is stolen to order or pre-sold before it even leaves the UK. Meanwhile the police - apart from generally not giving a toss - are spending massive amounts of time policing protests …with forces all over the country sending officers to London every weekend. Their radios don’t support internet / searching / connectivity to back office systems. The back office systems are shit and new tech that’s proven to identify crime patterns and save massive amounts of admin time (like palantir) are blocked on a political whim. And then even if the police catch someone, they have to fight the CPS to even get permission to charge and after that there will be a dork judge who hands out a non custodial sentence to someone even when they have nicked hundreds of £thousands of property and already have many previous convictions. Between the police, CPS and judiciary the chance of detecting, prosecuting and punishing crime is next to zero.
@jaymack Although I haven't used the term, there is indeed Two-Tier Policing throughout the UK. However it's not, as is usually proposed, based specifically on race- it's based on whether the offender, or the reporter, are people the police do or don't like. The people they REALLY don't like are people who report indisputable offences and include indisputable evidence. Of course, the people they don't like COULD be various races, or women, or cyclists. There's a reason that numerous officers from Charing Cross police station are simultaneously under investigation by IOPC
I can't get past the fact that the first photo's not on tarmac - remove it from ROAD.cc!
47 thoughts on “Challenge dangerous driving or silently report? Driving instructor Ashley Neal weighs in on cyclist debate; Local angered by parking tickets vows not to drive, starts cycling; Bike lane removal protest; Cyclocross in a nutshell + more on the live blog”
Adwitya
Adwitiya
Please stop writing articles implying that the vehicle is doing something seemingly of it’s own accord (unless of course it is autonomous/self driving).
The vehicle is being operated by a human.
Headline
“Cyclists stand in front of truck to stop it from removing a bike lane…”
should be
“Cyclists stand in front of truck to stop removal of bike lane…”
“However, they were met with an obstacle in the shape of a truck sent to strip down…”
should be
“However, they were met with an obstacle in the shape of a truck being used to strip down…”
“Yesterday, concerned Portlanders took to the street to physically block the truck from going about with the stripping down.”
should be
“Yesterday, concerned Portlanders took to the street to physically block the stripping down of the cycle lane.”
“Several minutes passed and the truck left once again.”
should be
“Several minutes passed and the truck operator left once again.”
“They’re staying in shifts to make sure the trucks don’t return.”
should be
“They’re staying in shifts to make sure the truck operators don’t return.”
Read these guidelines: http://rc-rg.com
Dude, you’ve got waaaay too
Dude, you’ve got waaaay too much time on your hands. Why don’t you go outside and pickup some litter or something; put this time of yours to better use?
Language is important.
Language is important.
Far too often agency is attributed to vehicles, effectively removing blame from their drivers.
Yep, came across this earlier
Yep, came across this earlier
“A man had to be rescued when his car went through the front of a house in Colchester.”
These autonomous cars eh.
Those Portlanders look like
Those Portlanders look like yer average British utility cyclists.
Has Portlandia been lying to us all this time? 😉
I greatly admire the Dutch
I greatly admire the Dutch Headwind Cyclists. Best of luck!
Road.cc wrote:
…
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So the penny has dropped for
So the penny has dropped for one… hopefully more will follow.
Lets hope he doesn’t visit
Lets hope he doesn’t visit Maastricht…
Independent of the journo,
Independent of the journo, road.cc seems to have a rinse and repeat template for anything relating to Ashley Neal
1) mention he’s the son of a footballer – check
2) bring up cycling mikey whinging to be left alone – check
3) be sure to mention he is a youtuber – check
4) Ad Hominen – check
Jesus, change the record. Apart from anything it is actually a pretty valid point across all incidents on the road. My first encounter with road rage was when learning to drive and the A20 being closed, the reason transpired to be the murder of Stephen Cameron by Kenneth Noye in a road rage incident.
Generally speaking, it is
Generally speaking, it is much better practice to remain calm in order to resolve issues, so I understand Ashley’s point. However, when another party is agressive from the beginning, it is human instinct to react or retalliate. It’s never as straightforward especially when someone has a 2-ton mobile weapon at their disposal. Sometimes even the most calm and elloquant requests can be met with uncalled for rage simply because people don’t like to be proven wrong or shown to be at fault.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
Sure, I mean I ended up calling my neighbour a cunt when he pulled a stupid overtake. Doesn’t stop the point Ashley Neal is making being valid, nor the ridiculous need to resort referencing his football links. Poor journalism.
I am not known for being a
I am not known for being a shrinking violet when my hackles are raised and have confronted people in the past but recently I have stopped challenging people about their driving. It simply isn’t worth it and the risk of meeting a psychopath in a two tonne weapon is too high. I now try to shake my head to myself, report it to the police if I feel it warrants it and get on with my ride.
100%
100%
Had an incident yesterday and just about to check my camera. I ended up alongside the car at the next lights and it just isn’t worth engaging beyond reporting.
I’ve seen tweets where the
I’ve seen tweets where the cyclist says the driver reacted to a shaken head. I’ve certainly had people watching the rear view mirror after a close pass to see my reaction.
The difference between an
The difference between an obvious and demonstrative shake of the head and a shake my head to myself. I can’t be arsed to waste the effort in a massive demonstration of my displeasure, it just validates these idiots’ view of cyclists as the enemy. Revenge is a dish best served cold, or more hopefully as a NIP in the post a few days later.
Ad hominem would be saying
Ad hominem would be saying Ashley can’t possibly know anything about road safety because he is the son of a footballer. Stating that he is the son of a footballer and prominent youtuber is not ad hominem – it is providing context as to why Ashley’s comments are being reported on, compared to any number of other opinionated people posting on the internet. Adwitiya doesn’t even state whether or not he agrees with Ashley – he says it’s “one for you all to discuss”.
And as for Cycling Mikey, given the previously reported story is highly relevant (i.e. about whether or not to confront illegal drivers) it would be odd not to mention it.
It’s an attempt to discredit
It’s an attempt to discredit the person and their credibility rather than any point the person is making. Simple as, and quite common on here. It’s the modus operandi of a number of members as well.
Let’s see road.cc start referring to Jeremy Vine as gameshow host in their articles eh?
They do seem to do this by
They do seem to do this by number!
However what do you suggest to cover why they’re reporting on him anyway / introduction? “Some guy called Ashley Neal” or “A random driving instructor (dunno why, but we seem to pick up on his opinions somehow)”? Didn’t see an ad hom this time though (unless you’re counting 1 maybe)?
But yeah, I saw this and was looking for marka1 posting a “sailor chumming the water” pic.
FWIW I don’t run cameras (yet) and can’t remember the last time I complained to a driver – I tend to follow BikeSnobNYC’s tack. OTOH that hasn’t stopped several people having a crack at me while out on my bike. I really doubt they were CM “fans” or had met any other “confrontational cyclists”. A substantial fraction of the population drive or ride in cars, so even if there’s a tiny portion with serious issues / who just hate them a cyclist ‘cos different, or “they’re in the way” that would still be lots of people.
“Ad hominem, (Latin: “against
“Ad hominem, (Latin: “against the man”) in full argumentum ad hominem, type of argument or attack that appeals to prejudice or feelings or irrelevantly impugns another person’s character instead of addressing the facts or claims made by the latter.”
Is there any need to reference, or please explain why Ashley’s links to football have any relevance to ANY article that references his opinion on driving or cycling matters?
As I mentioned on the other reply, Jeremy Vine is never mentioned in a similar manner and only in the capacity of his actions with regards cycling. In fact often his behaviour is arguably questionable, yet he gets a free pass seemingly simply because he is a “cyclist”.
I generally use a camera more for capturing moments when out. Such as a near collision with a stoat (one of the more bizarre) and prefer to try (as a road user, rather than simply a cyclist) to have a more possive outlook and impact. Example being the repeated reporting of the poor condition of one of the few, yet widely used, pieces of cycle infrastructure local to me. The result being it is now more regularly swept clear, although another report is necessary it seems!
Edit (hope that is OK) just to add Ashley has at least tried to look at road use from the perspective of both driving and cycling. Vine like some on here, has a purely cycling centric viewpoint and one that is London centric, which isn’t the reality even for the likes of myself living on the Kent/London border. To many here though it is just a binary case of bike good/car bad. So yeah, personal attacks and ad hominem are expected and the norm to anyone not towing that line.
Adam Sutton wrote:
Well I dunno why they use it – perhaps mail road.cc and ask? As a regular it does seem to be a trope. Charitably though “news” outlets always want to identify people by some (generally reductive) characteristic and maybe more than just the regulars pass by here. Vine is (for reasons beyond my understanding) a public figure but Ashley Neal is much less prominent – apart from the connection with his well-known father. See – I can just put “Vine” and expect to have most people follow, but not “Neal”…
Excellent uses; I occasionally consider getting cameras for those odd interesting things in passing. Stopping and phone covers most of that though. Plus I realise I would probably find reviewing stuff and clearing it out a chore. Certainly “reporting” things seems a serious labour of love – or another emotion!
I think if you use a bike in
I think if you use a bike in traffic heavy areas it is worth running a camera, not just for reporting but more for evidence if anything does happen and to protect yourself.
Same as dash cams in cars. We never use to have one until my other half had someone pull out on a roundabout and hit him. It was clearcut fortunately, but didn’t stop them even a year after trying it on, clearly after a no win no fee kind of parasitic solicitor had got onto them. It never even came close to court bit dash cam evidence would have taken a lot of the stress away.
Don’t currently have a car,
Don’t currently have a car, but (probably reading here too much) I would likely run one if I get one again.
I’m less optimistic about the value of one for cycling. Too much looking at videos (or cases) here where apparently little weight has been given to video evidence. And that’s assuming footage is helpful – or even viewable.
I suppose I don’t consider that I’d seriously damage someone cycling. I try to ride with the same awareness / courtesy as when driving and statistically is is extremely unlikely. Perhaps I should?
I run cameras. From my
I run cameras. From my experience the police do nothing with clear cut cases. The reporting portals are merely black holes tbh.
Andrewbanshee wrote:
I made 3 reports last week to WMP who are now sending updates in most cases. It’s usually one of two officers who are in contact with me multiple times a week so i’m just hoping they don’t get sick of me and stop bothering ?
Thank you for contacting West Midlands Police, I have reviewed the footage you kindly sent in and these are your results
The driver of the Black Mercedes on the Tyburn Road has been reported for the offence of driving without due care and attention, the driver can either take a driver education course or go to court
The driver of the Black VW who contravened the red light will get 3 points and a £100 fine or go opt for court
and
Thankyou for your Nextbase submission reference the Blue Honda jazz on Kingsbury Road, 25/10/23. I have started enquiries to identify the driver to allow me to progress the matter.
I made 3 reports last week to
I made 3 reports last week to WMP who are now sending updates in most cases. It’s usually one of two officers who are in contact with me multiple times a week
This does look to be convincing action from WMP, even to a cynical veteran like me. Well done! Wish we had something even slightly similar here
It does seem convincing. Let
It does seem convincing. Let’s hope it’s not just a short term blitz as after the news of only one prosecution in 2022 it was starting to feel a bit pointless.
Maybe WMP will publish some amazing stats for the second half of 2023 and someone at Lancs police will be shamed into doing som . . . . . what am I thinking, it’ll never happen.
I made 3 reports last week to
I made 3 reports last week to WMP who are now sending updates in most cases. It’s usually one of two officers who are in contact with me multiple times a week so i’m just hoping they don’t get sick of me and stop bothering .
Thank you for your time and effort and your contribution to road safety on behalf of us all. Well done WMP, feedback and action, it’s very rare we see both (or either in some cases) on this site. Is there any chance you could send in some examples to NMOTD with the action that was taken, I’m thinking it may be useful to include links in future reports to other police forces in the hope they will follow suit.
Bungle_52 wrote:
Probably not. In the past WMP rarely gave feedback but on two occasions they did and court action was taken so I submitted them for NMOTD but they weren’t featured. It could be Road.cc don’t like my username as it wasn’t mentioned anywhere in the ‘golf club attack’ item and when Road.cc quoted 4 comments about WMP recently they named the other 3 users but my comment was anonymous. Of course it could be all in my imagination and they just weren’t very good. These are the two I submitted.
I went to court as a witness in this one. Even though the prosecution got the driver to admit they should have given me more space the Magistrates decided as I had not swerved or braked then it was not dangerous so the outcome was not guilty.
The owner was taken to court for not supplying details and got a £519 fine, £201 Court costs and 6 points on their licence which is a good result as this is probably much more than they would have got otherwise.
Unfortunately the reports I’ve had feedback on in the last couple of months only say what the police intend to report the driver for but not the final result. Hopefully this will also be communicated in the future but so far I haven’t heard anything.
Thanks for the reply and the
Thanks for the reply and the two links. The first one would have been a NFA in Gloucestershire in the past for that same reason, no swerving or braking. I do think things are changing though and judging from WMP recent video I think they would be treated differently now. As for the one who didn’t identify the driver, as you say a good result but maybe not good as an example for what the police will take action on. As for road.cc not publishing your submissions I find that very disappointing. They have published all the ones I’ve sent in and I’ve always considered NMOTD a resource that could be used by anyone or any organisation campaigning to get the police to act on behalf of vulnerable road users.
I think some forces are getting better, I like to think NMOTD has played it’s part in that, but if road.cc won’t publish examples then perhaps upride woud be a better repository for the videos as you and WTJS are doing. That would be a great shame as you don’t get the benefit of the discussion which I find very useful and informative. Also it doesn’t give road.cc a chance to follow up with the forces concerned which they have done on a few occasions in the past.
Thanks again for the reply and for all your time, effort and expense in reporting. Quite impressed by the image quality of the DC1 by the way.
I agree with you that NMOTD
I agree with you that NMOTD is very important in getting the message out there. It’s what brought me to Road.cc and also one of the reasons I started running cameras and reporting drivers, along with seeing Cycling Mikey and Dave Sherry videos.
Upride is great but like you I would like to see a comments section. I have to thank WTJS for pointing the site out to me.
I’m sure Road.cc could use Upride videos for NMOTD, it is set up to shine a light on dangerous driving after all. Upride should have accounts that media companies like Road.cc could register for and then download videos and message the uploader within the site for more details while still allowing for the users privacy.
Sometimes the time and effort it takes really sucks. Spent hours Thursday night editing and reporting after three vehicles in a row close passed me in the pouring rain at night with a strong crosswind. I was still weaving about after the first one nearly hit me when the second one did the same and then the same again with the third one!
The DC1 really comes into it’s own at night where my Drift Ghosts struggle with headlights. If one doesn’t get them the other usually will.
I have no real issue with
I have no real issue with Ashley Neal. I think he is generally a force for good when it comes to cyclists. We seem to have a large tendency to be overly idealistic and completely forget that great is the enemy of good. Are his opinions or takes perfect? No. Are they changing drivers opinions and is he slowly but surely understanding life as a cyclists? I think so.
As is always the case when it comes to drivers vs cyclists, the somewhat important distinction is always conveniently ignored. Risk. Danger. A driver pulling out in front of me when I am doing 30 in a car will almost certainly do me little to no damage. Same situation on a bike and I could easily be dead or badly injured. Thats the issue. When people talk about cyclists doing things they shouldn’t they completely ignore this fact.
When someone pulls out on me in a car I think “what a pillock” but there is no thought of them having nearly killed me. Unsurprisingly “what a pillock” vs “you nearly fucking killed me you complete ****” are different emotions.
This is why its hard for cyclists to just “get on with it” and let it go. Fundamentally we are all dealing with the fact people happily put our lives at risk to save themselves a few seconds or because they can’t be bothered to give driving their vague attention.
mctrials23 wrote:
Very true.
If cyclists (or any other member of society) feels that they should ‘get on with it” they are reinforcing the mindset of the person committing the offence (be it dangerous driving, or something else) that they can “just get on with it” without any redress – and the downward spiral continues, until there is no society.
Hmm… tricky this. Cyclists
Hmm… tricky this. Cyclists – or pedestrians – are in a very vulnerable position on the road. Calling out bad driving is trying to educate someone at a very unpropitious time. They may be full of emotion but are quite likely not full of respect! In the case of cyclists someone driving is quite likely to see them as less than full “citizens of the road”.
Certainly people need feedback for behaviour change. But it takes a lot / regular feedback.
There are still very few cyclists in most places in UK. And our feedback to bad drivers isn’t backed up by training (once per lifetime for most). Or the police and courts (very little enforcement, police and CPS don’t take this seriously, courts don’t convict, sentence are light). Or social attitudes generally.
The last might be different with a higher proportion if people cycling – but how to get there…?
Tbh I have almost been killed
Tbh I have almost been killed and also seriously injured a fair few times and on each occassion I have shouted aloud. Reflex thing. The last time the drivist decided to break check me, slow down to a crawl and weave about the road, threaten to pull in, perhaps to teach me a lesson.
I suppose I ought to wear a gag whenever I cycle because you know how sensitive drivists are and how evil people on bikes are.
One last thing. Stay behind a dangerous driver once they have almost wrecked your life. Secondly, if they do stop, you are protecting yourself from harm and using reasonable force. Remember that.
I think Ashley Neal would
I think Ashley Neal would have a point if he himself regularly cycled and reported dangerous drivers to the police. He would at least be speaking from a position of experience.
It’s not always possible to remain in a zen-like state of calm when threatened. In other areas of life we are encouraged to speak out and challenge poor behaviour, why should driving be a special case? Just because some drivers are nutters?
Confronting bad behaviour is not always pretty, but I’m not sure a society of bystanders is any better.
Ashley Neal … he’s just
Ashley Neal … he’s just some ordinary dude with a dashcam.
What makes his opinion so valuable compared to the average Joe?
Nothing.
Ashley Neal wrote:
Ashley is absolutely right, if we just report it to the police that will be the end of it as no further action will be taken.
Backladder wrote:
Ashley is absolutely right, if we just report it to the police that will be the end of it as no further action will be taken.— Ashley Neal
That’s the thing, sometimes the Met will refuse to act on an absolute slam dunk dangerous/careless and sometimes act on one that I pondered a long time about whether it was worth submitting. If I think it’s safe to do so I will let a driver know what they’ve done wrong and that they’re on camera in the hope that even if the police won’t act they might reflect on the fact that there are a lot of cyclists with cameras out there and that they might not be so fortunate next time.
Ashley Neal has published
Ashley Neal has published videos that include him challenging dangerous driving when he was cycling.
So I don’t understand the point he is making.
Personally I challenge by drawing attention to it, whilst focusing on my safety first, in so much as to show other drivers on the road what’s acceptable and what’s not.
While Ashley’s victim blaming
While Ashley’s victim blaming take is wrong, essentially implying it’s the cyclist’s fault they got attacked, I do think it’s better to quietly report than challenge.
If they just get caught by the police’s apparent many eyes and ears then they might question their assumptions about being able to get away with it in future and will be more likely to accept it as justice. However if challenged they’ll just view as something done to them by some cyclist they’ll never see again.
Also in a perfect world a motorist would wait a few minutes before driving again after being challenged so that they weren’t driving distracted, in the real world they just jump straight back into the car and drive off into the next accident.
That said I have yet to find the serenity needed to practice what I’m preaching in the moment.
Sounds great silently report?
Sounds great silently report? unfortunately systems for reporting are not always up to the task. Were I am (Scotland) we still don’t have online 3 rd party reporting. The process of reporting and submitting video evidence is a major barrier.
With Ashley Neal it’s
With Ashley Neal it’s important to remember that to him this is more about a refenue stream than road safety. He is desperate to drive people to his monetised videos, regularly simply taking other people’s videos to then use them to earn his own income.
He is also incapable of dealing with anyone who disagrees with him. On his Youtube channel, anyone who points out his contradicting advice or attitudes is imply muted creating an echo chamber for his ego. (such as his normal slating of any cyclist passing a red light, compared to his ride in London with Travis and the car where the pair of them sail through a red light several seconds after it changes… Something Travis has publicly stated he does regularly.. with Ashley saying this was the “right decision)
He also spouts his mantra of “make it a non event” while at the same time posting a video of himself on a bike having an argument with a bus driver after he placed himself in the driver’s blindspot as he was waiting to leave a bus-stop.
Many of you will remember his analysis of Jeremy Vine being reversed into by a van… Well Ashley “loved” comments on his video that were clearly wishing harm on Jeremy and other cyclists, including one stating that it was a shame he hadn’t “collected his Darwin award”….
The last thing we need to do is give this poor escuse for a driving instructor more publicity.
Good idea but if I reported
Good idea but if I reported every incident of appalling cycleing I see , ignoring red lights biking on the wrong side of the road turning without any signal riding out into traffic at junctions scattering people on pavements hitting my wheelchair on the pavement riding after dark wearing no reflective gear with no lights , I would spend most of my time in the cop station as the stupidity of bikers is legendary in fact I think it’s compulsory
They also do one called ‘
They also do one called ”London Grey”. I think ”London fog” would be better and more appropriate.
perce wrote:
On holiday in Canada this summer, I discovered the drink “London Fog”. It’s basically an Earl Grey tea vanilla latte (so Earl Grey tea, vanilla syrup and steamed milk). No coffee shops over here seem to do it (including, apparently, Canadian chain Tim Hortons) but it’s easy to make at home with the help of my wife’s Velvetiser. Strongly recommended.
London Grey puts me in mind
London Grey puts me in mind of an ex-pat urban parrot.