Mathieu van der Poel breaks bars on cobbles, throws away damaged drop…still helps teammate win; School cycle bus; Should we wear masks while cycling?; Tao hits back at Zlatan Ibrahimovic; Wild boar collision; Hot or not? + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Tao Geoghegan Hart hits back at Zlatan Ibrahimovic's criticism of athletes talking about politics
Tao Geoghegan Hart hit back at footballer Zlatan Ibrahimovic’s comments about LeBron James, with the Ineos Grenadiers rider saying “everything is political” and that he doesn’t agree with the AC Milan striker’s view that athletes should avoid talking about politics. Ibrahimovic said in an interview last week that he wished James and other people with status would “do what you’re good at doing”.
Speaking to The Guardian, Geoghegan Hart dismissed Ibrahimovic’s point and said it isn’t as simplistic as he had made out. “First and foremost, everything is political. We are all in this together. Secondly, there are many who simply do not have the choice whether they are political or not, because these issues so directly impact their lives and the lives of their friends, families and loved ones,” Geoghegan Hart said.
“If we don’t want opinions and characters in sport, let’s just watch robots compete. As a fan I don’t cheer for the best rider, runner or player. I back the one I relate most to, the one who inspires me. There is more to sport than simply athletic ability. And championing a positive cause, that you believe in, is a huge part of that, of trying to leave the world a better place than you found it.”
Before his first race of the season the 2020 Giro d’Italia champion announced he would be sponsoring an U23 rider to ride for his former team, Hagens Berman Axeon, in a bid to increase diversity in cycling. He has also spoken about a number of cycling-related issues including championing cycling infrastructure in London and criticising the “financial arms race and costs associated with kids’ racing.”
Tadej Pogačar extends UAE Team Emirates stay until 2026
Tour de France and recently crowned UAE Tour champion, Tadej Pogačar, has extended his contract with UAE Team Emirates for another four years. It’s a length of contract rarely seen in professional cycling and suggests the team’s keenness to tie down their biggest asset for the foreseeable future. Pogačar will still only be 27 when the new deal expires at the end of the 2025 season.
“I feel at home in this team,” the 22-year-old said. “There is a special atmosphere between the management, riders and staff and it’s a good environment to be in. The team shows a lot of trust and confidence in me which I am thankful for, and I work hard to show that when I’m racing alongside my teammates. I hope we can have many more successful seasons together in the years ahead.”
Adidas cycling shoes: hot or not?
Yesterday we got the news about Adidas’ next foray into the cycling shoe market, for the the full rundown check out our story… They’ve been going down well with our readers and on social media so far…
Fuck…
Can hear my credit card begging for mercy already LOL
— Fiat Multipla (@smatt1616) March 1, 2021
Can you see yourself picking up a pair of Velosambas?
Wild boar collides with cyclist
Here’s something you don’t expect to have to avoid on your bike ride…This video from Punggol in Singapore shows a wild boar colliding with a cyclist waiting for the lights to change. The Independent SG reports that wild boar attacks have made headlines in the city recently after two women were injured in an area nearby to this latest incident. One woman was bitten on her leg and dragged for about one metre before the wild boar was caught and euthanised.
Should we be wearing masks while cycling?
Should runners wear masks?
Professor Trish Greenhalgh tells @piersmorgan and @susannareid100 that it is ‘important to be socially responsible’ due to the way Covid transmits.
Amid the fears that a wet mask can breed germs, she says the mask should be washed straight away. pic.twitter.com/kGeRCZT3in
— Good Morning Britain (@GMB) March 2, 2021
The question about wearing masks while exercising has re-emerged this morning on Good Morning Britain. Professor Trisha Greenhalgh, a Professor of Primary Care at the University of Oxford, made the case for wearing face coverings while exercising outside. She said: “There is no doubt the virus is in the air, there is no doubt you can catch it if you inhale air that someone else has exhaled. The exercising jogger, the puffing and panting jogger, you can feel their breath come and you can sometimes feel yourself inhaling.”
The debate was framed around jogging, but has also been linked to cyclists in the past, especially in the context of one person riding directly behind another. “There is no doubt that there is a danger there,” Professor Greenhalgh continued. “I do agree that wet, soggy masks are not a good idea. But the fact that they get contaminated is not a reason for not wearing them. It’s not that you’re going to do anything with that mask apart from washing it.”
When the issue has been raised previously, the consensus in the road.cc comments among our readers generally seems to be either to wear a mask in very busy areas or that you should be fine riding without one…Thoughts? Should we be wearing masks out on the road?
Deceuninck-Quick-Step wear 'Don't drink and drive' jerseys at Le Samyn
No breakaway yet after 30 kilometers at #LeSamyn, where our riders are prominent at the front of the bunch in their special “Don’t drink and drive” jerseys.#DontDrinkandDrive #EntrePotesCestMaes #MatenMakkersMaes
Photo: @BeelWout pic.twitter.com/zRgcxadI5d— Deceuninck-QuickStep (@deceuninck_qst) March 2, 2021
British Cycling CEO Brian Facer reflects on his first 50 days in the role
Grab a brew and get to know our new CEO, Brian Facer ☕️
Having joined from @londonirish in January, we spoke to Brian about his first 50 days at the helm of British Cycling 🗣
Full story 📰 https://t.co/IRKJHYy3F1 pic.twitter.com/MxG8ePPmc3
— British Cycling (@BritishCycling) March 1, 2021
British Cycling’s new CEO, Brian Facer, has reflected on his first 50 days in the role and is looking forward to the return of activities and events in the coming months. Facer, who has previously worked for London Irish, said he has renewed optimism following the recent announcements from the government that the cycling community can look ahead to spring with hope that group rides and events aren’t too far away.
“I think it’s right to be excited and it’s nice to see that we’ve finally got a road to normality coming back,” he said. “If you look back at it all the way to the grassroots, we’ve actually lost over 4,000 events over the last year, and that’s really significant to us, so we want to get events back as soon as we can, but we need to do it in a safe way and in a way that they can be sustained as well.
“Like you I miss riding with groups, I miss riding with my club, and I miss riding with my friends more than anything else. While I’ve ridden with a plus one every now and then it’s not quite the same as riding with a group of people where you can have some fun at the front and some struggles at the back. I’m looking forward to that normality of going and having a really good weekend either racing, riding or just having fun with friends.”
For a full calendar of when group rides, racing and other cycling activities may be allowed again, check out our breakdown of what Boris Johnson’s roadmap means for cyclists…
Odd looking bars on display at Le Samyn
They’re not quite the Speeco Aero Breakaway Bars which caused a stir before Christmas with their extreme aero optimised position, but Jan-Willem van Schip has a pair of his own crazy looking narrow bars on display in the break over in Belgium this afternoon…
School cycle bus back in action
The #CycleBus is back. Just the juniors today, some of whom graduated from bike carriers to their own bikes over lockdown. It’s encouraging to see the younger cycle bussers go from wobbler to confident cyclist over a few weeks. Space + Practice = Confident Cycle Commuter 💯 pic.twitter.com/NToMo6acIi
— Limerick School Cycle Bus (@CyclingBusLmk) March 1, 2021
Great to see the Limerick School Cycle Bus back on the roads this morning…Formed by a group of parents and kids who wanted to cycle into Limerick city centre safely. It has stops with the same timetable everyday, like any school bus, and has become extremely popular as seen in the video above.
This is wonderful and testament to the hard work and perseverance of the @CyclingBusLmk team.
The power of modelling & community, when other parents & kids see their friends taking part, they will too. Habits are formed.
& most importantly driving habits adapt to expect 🚲🚲 https://t.co/EEQPML9JwT
— Lorraine D’Arcy (@LorraineFitzsim) March 1, 2021
Mathieu van der Poel breaks bars on cobbles, throws away damaged drop...still helps teammate win
Nice and calm…throw your broken handlebar away 😳 pic.twitter.com/Bw6WbPf8fg
— Brian Smith (@BriSmithy) March 2, 2021
Mathieu van der Poel had to lead out his teammate Tim Merlier with his hands on the tops after his shifter got knocked on the final cobbled sector of Le Samyn. In typically ruthless fashion, Van der Poel chucked his now damaged drop to the side of the road and still managed to set up his teammate to win the race…The right side shifter of Van der Poel’s 2021 Canyon Aeroad CFR Dura Ace Di2’s could be seen flapping about freely as he laid down some watts on the tops…
Good luck beating the scrum of Belgian children to the souvenir of a discarded drop…
Race winner and Van der Poel’s teammate Tim Merlier explained the situation: “Mathieu went with a group on the last cobbles but he said straight away he couldn’t sprint because his handlebars were broken, so he asked the team to ride again. I’m happy I could do it for the team.”
Is there anything this guy can’t do?
Mathieu van der Poel a terminé le #samyn @GPSamyn avec un guidon cassé pic.twitter.com/MbCGKgl2mf
— Seba Close (@SebaClose) March 2, 2021
Tim Merlier sprint het snelst en wint de GP Samyn pic.twitter.com/IoY5Usb235
— Sporza 🚴 (@sporza_koers) March 2, 2021
Reaction to Mathieu van der Poel ripping off his snapped drop before helping Tim Merlier win
This is Mathieu van der Poel 😆#mvdp pic.twitter.com/MWPhjj3sDa
— Miroir du Cyclisme (@Miroir2Cyclisme) March 2, 2021
Well, I can’t say I’ve ever seen anything like that happen before…
The investigation into Van der Poel’s bars is what Twitter was made for #LeSamyn
— Liam Cahill (@liamcahill1) March 2, 2021
Did I just see Mathieu VanDerPoel give teammate Tim Merlier a 1k leadout with a broken handlebar? #LeSamyn
— Nicho Ybarra (@Nicho3rdrail) March 2, 2021
Yes Nicho, yes you did…
Van der Poel has his say
Entrada en meta de Mathieu Van Der Poel con el manillar roto. #LeSamyn pic.twitter.com/zOQN9M1mQi
— Dany Pro Cycling (@DanyProCycling) March 2, 2021
Mathieu van der Poel has spoken to Wielerflits after that bizarre ending to Le Samyn…On the incident everyone’s talking about, he said: “I was still very good myself, but I couldn’t put in any force because my steering wheel broke on that long cobblestone strip. I couldn’t do my thing with that. I did everything I could to paralyse the group and I am very happy that Tim finishes it.
“I’m very content. I was still very good at the end, so that was a shame. But I no longer had any braces to sprint, so it made no sense to drive to the finish with that group. It was a very difficult race. I am happy with the feeling, even if I was not as good as in Kuurne. But when they started racing, I had a good feeling. So I can go to Italy (Strade Bianche) satisfied.”
Even the pros were shocked...
🇧🇪 #LeSamyn
That moment when @daanhoole and Stan van Tricht realized that @mathieuvdpoel was riding with a broken handlebar 🙈
Congrats on the win, @AlpecinFenix! #talentdevelopment pic.twitter.com/BuI4vcYt7H
— SEG Racing Academy (@SEGRacing) March 2, 2021
What happened with Van der Poel's bars?
Looks like bars from this angle pic.twitter.com/8OIwudpkpP
— FLiDistribution (@FLiDistribution) March 2, 2021
The speculation is rife, with some blaming the bars themselves, and others such as our friends at Cycling Tips suggesting that there’s nothing wrong with the bars, and the issue was instead caused by Van der Poel’s STI levers being fitted with a different clamp band than the stock titanium clamp. We’ll hopefully have more on this tomorrow when our tech team have made some enquiries…
2 March 2021, 09:02
2 March 2021, 09:02
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@Rendel Harris Agree, I am baffled that the 84 year old who is now banned from driving for year can then start driving again without a retest. We should be re-tested regularly.
@mitsky Just checking the figures and apparently the 2026 average cost is £58,000 per year per prisoner; worth noting that is only the direct cost, you then have to factor in ten years of lost tax income from the prisoner, ten years that the prisoner is making no contribution to society as a worker or as a consumer, plus the fact that if they were the primary breadwinner very likely the costs will include benefits for their family as well. None of which should be a reason for keeping violent recidivists out of prison of course, nor drug/drink drivers who kill, but it is a factor worth considering for lower-level offences.
@Surreyrider I ride in Surrey a fair bit and absolutely many do look like that but the point is they all *think* they're driving perfectly reasonably (as one discovers when remonstrating with someone who's skimmed one by 30cm, "I gave you masses of room") so deterrent penalties have little effect. That's why we need to strike at the root cause and actually train drivers properly and test them stringently (and more than once over the course of a potential 70+ years of driving, it's absolutely absurd that competence and knowledge in what for most people is the activity in their life that will run the biggest risk of killing people you never have to have your qualifications renewed).
@mitsky Imprisonment currently costs over £50k p.a. per prisoner and obviously that will rise over the course of a ten-year stretch with inflation. Regarding culpability and mitigating sentences etc, of course I'm not against condign punishment for drivers who kill (and cyclists on the tiny, tiny handful of occasions when this happens), including prison as appropriate; I was objecting to the ridiculous and oft-repeated demand of MM that drivers who kill cyclists must get ten years, "no excuses, no exceptions".
Hey, but their wool blend cycling adjacent t-shirts are/were fantastic.
@Surreyrider Still the boss. Ride one, you'll see why
@Smoggysteve "Most would happily ride on the roads and be treated with respect by drivers". But people aren't - and as far as I can see they won't be. Not until there is a lot less driving and it's slower around cyclists, and far more people driving have "skin in the game" eg. they sometimes cycle and their friends and family do also. That's what leads to the model - which is perhaps most advanced in NL - where cycling, walking and driving are all seen as separate normal transport modes. Their needs, vulnerabilities and any dangers to others are considered. And *that* leads to "mix / share when possible, separate when necessary". But "possible" is "where your 10-year old would be safe to cycle unsupervised" - so very few motor vehicles, going slow! And AFAICS everybody - even "existing cyclists" - is happy with the result. (I dunno about a few pro cyclists - but don't they tend to have training camps in different counties anyway?)
@quiff as an Edinburgh resident I can confidently say he's speaking without moving his lips in one sense: - while as I noted in a separate comment there *is* now some real separated cycle infra, all the examples i can think of have *at least as much space* for pedestrians. The rest of the "cycle infra" is essentially similar to the situation in the rest of the UK: eg. bus lanes*, cycle lanes and shared use paths (eg. "build" infra by sticking up a sign). Edinburgh is one of the places with a moderately extensive network of former railways which have been converted to "shared use" paths (completely motor traffic few). However though shared they are not narrow by UK standards. And this is all effectively a "free extra" for all non- motorised users, not like the "sign a cycle path" where pedestrians do lose space. I think this all comes from the "popular understanding" of cycling in which ultimately cyclists are the "other". They don't fit "motor vehicle" or "pedestrian" (including wheelchairs on the very rare occasions people think about that). Thus "cyclists are cheating" in multiple ways! They shouldn't get their own space as "there aren't enough" of them. And "they can just use the road / path". But being able to *choose* "on the road" or "on the footway" (shared use path) is clearly unfair - nobody else gets to do that! BUT of course even if they did pick just one of road OR pedestrian space it's still not fair anyway because they're "too slow" for the road (don't pay "road tax" etc...) and "far too fast" for pedestrians... * Though some existing cyclists may appreciate them when there are few buses, buses and bikes are a very poor mix for several reasons.
Whilst a shame for any employees, their bib shorts had the worst chamois pad I’d ever encountered, utter waste of my money. Even though they were Strava challenge discount purchases, still a waste of money.
Thanks, just going to have to suck it up. Got next week off and will take the easy, if expensive option...
65 thoughts on “Mathieu van der Poel breaks bars on cobbles, throws away damaged drop…still helps teammate win; School cycle bus; Should we wear masks while cycling?; Tao hits back at Zlatan Ibrahimovic; Wild boar collision; Hot or not? + more on the live blog”
Skunk Anansie – Yes It’s F**
Skunk Anansie – Yes It’s F***ing Political – YouTube
I personally am quite happy
I personally am quite happy with the likes of Marcus Rashford getting involved in politics.
I’d also be happy with some politicians moving to sport, although I might suggest that Johnson be kept away from playing rugby with kids….
Also keep him away from the
Also keep him away from the kids mums (alledgely)
I’m all for it. If you’ve got
I’m all for it. If you’ve got a platform, use it for good. Tommie Smith & John Carlos at the ’68 Olympics, Kapernick taking the knee, even James McClean refusing to wear a poppy (he’s done more to educate young football fans about The Troubles by doing that than the whole of the English education system).
Now if only Tao could steer clear of the greenwashing of Ineos…
kil0ran wrote:
Really?!?!
That’s one way of putting it.
Now if only Tao could steer
Now if only Tao could steer clear of the greenwashing of Ineos…
Agreed. It’s an article about ethics, and Jeremy Whittle fails to ask the most important question.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
The most important question to you.
Jeremy Whittle spoke to TGH
Jeremy Whittle spoke to TGH about politics and ethics. I respectfully suggest it is an obvious and important question, but Whittle flunked this journalistic test.
Or do you really think all this is irrelevant?
INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations. Corporate Watch article.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
It’s all very important. But it was irrelevant to a focused piece on athletes being able to engage in politics.
Unless you assert that they are personally held liable across their entire personal life for the actions of their employer.
Ineos is where he gets his
Ineos is where he gets his money from. As you say it’s his employer. Everyone has to choose whether they are comfortable with the ethical stance of the company they work for.
The article was about politics with a specific focus on ethics, so this is highly relevant.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
Where did I even imply that I thought any specific issue was irrelevant?
You said it was THE most important question. I simply noted that maybe that was the most important question to you, but that doesn’t make it THE most important question … others will view it differently.
Besides the thrust of the article was Tao’s attitude to athletes involving themselves in political issues and focussed particularly on diversity where he has taken specific personal action to try and address it in some way. Seems to me like challenging him on the corporate behaviour of the company that sponsor his team is outside the scope of this particular article.
Doesn’t make it irrelevant, just makes it a topic for a different interview.
Please make your points
Please make your points calmly.
Ineos is his employer – that’s where his money comes from. If he is discussing politics and ethics, it is a central question that a good journalist should have asked.
‘A topic for a different interview’ is a recipe for the question never being asked – and cycling journalists never do.
Young riders like TGH and Pidcock seem like decent people with a social conscience. Pidcock used to plant trees to offset the CO2 for his travel. Now he is representing Scotland’s biggest CO2 polluter.
That’s what disappoints me the most – they are clearly enlightened people but with a massive blindspot connected to their wallets.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
Well welcome to the world outside of Harrogate, it must be nice up there for you.
It’s not always pretty down here, but we do what we need to to survive and try and see the best in what we can.
There’s no need for personal
There’s no need for personal attacks or sarcasm.
We have to halve our CO2 emissions by 2030, which is very soon. Ineos is a big part of the problem, not the solution.
I’m sure we’ve all had to comprise our principles to earn a living at times, but there’s a line most people wouldn’t cross. It would have been interesting at least to ask the question and read the answer. And it’s not as if TGH would be out of work if he didn’t sign for Ineos.
I guess this is how sports marketing/greenwashing a company’s reputation works. Fans get agitated and aggressive if someone suggests asking a difficult question of a sports star they like, and the unethical business gets a free ride.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
It’s not that, I just come here for gratuitous cyclng talk, I’m sick of negativity being brought into what should have been a mildy good news story. Imagine if every time Tao opened his mouth someone said ‘yeah boring.. what we really want to know about is how you feel about Ineos polluting the environment.. ‘ Maybe he was asked that question, if he was then I’d imagine that he’d roll out a similar answer that every team member would have most certainly been briefed on and I’d imagine that that wouldn’t get printed.
It’s a slippery slope – once
It’s a slippery slope – once we accept athletes talking about politics, it’s only a step away from politicians cycling around and being sporty.
Re sports and politics. Tao
Re sports and politics. Tao has this one spot on. I believe that in a society we all have a duty to do what is best for everybody in that society, although this view is very unfashionable now a days. The current rule is “what you can get away with” or “survival of the fittest”. I am sure many sports stars can’t be bothered taking an interest in politics due to their “I’m doing OK so don’t rock the boat” attitude. To me this seems wrong but it does adhere to the “put number one first” attitude of most of our leaders and role models. It is also embodied in the vehicles which many sports stars drive, tanks with very good protection for the occupants but sod every one else and the planet. Well done Tao, Marcus and many others.
Big respect to Tao, we need
Big respect to Tao, we need more like him not less
“Amid the fears that a wet
“Amid the fears that a wet mask can breed germs”
Does someone want to tell GMB that viruses can’t replicate outside of host cells? Coronaviruses might accumulate in a mask, but they certainly aren’t breeding there.
True, viruses don’t breed,
True, viruses don’t breed, but other germs do. You don’t want a mask full of mould spores or bacteria either…
True. I had assumed someone
True. I had assumed someone was saying that masks might increase the spread of cornavirus. But if the actual argument is people don’t want to wear masks (especially while exercising) because other germs might breed there, then that argument has a little bit more validity.
Velosambas – Great. The cream
Velosambas – Great. The cream being the best, although they’d get wrecked pretty quickly even with full mudguards
Tao – More power to him. Always thought he was a bit of a charisma vacuum, but have been impressed with him over the last few months
Masks when exercising – Not for me (Clive), just stay out of people’s way. Transport, office, supermarket, shops etc obviously yes, as you’re more likely to end up in situations where distancing is compromised
deviate wrote:
No! When it comes to Adidas Sambas – I’m very much with Henry Ford, any colour you want as long as it’s black. I used to work as a Saturday part-timer in a sports shop that always had discounted trainers, and we couldn’t keep enough Sambas (and Gazelles) in stock. Of course the job didn’t actually pay enough for me to actually buy some – I could just about stretch to Hi-Tecs!
Tao – agree. One of the constant responses that Gary Lineker gets on Twitter when referring to a political issue is ‘stick to football’ – why? Does having one specialism automatically bar you from having an opinion on another issue?
Quote:
Any source for this, “exhaling” the virus?
The virus is contained within droplets of saliva or phlegm, the virus is not itself free-floating. The saliva droplets may be larger (visible spittle ejected when people talk or cough or sneeze, most of which falls to the floor within a short distance), or smaller (aerosol sized particles that carry on the breeze). But whichever, the virus itself must be bound up within the droplets to hitch a ride. The virus does not simply emanate from us like spores from a puffball. And neither does the virus, being solid particles, evaporate as moisture on the breath then to condense into droplets – the virus must be in physically ejected saliva droplets.
Not sure that happens just through breathing out (without some extra mechanism like your tongue flapping about in speech, etc).
There does seem to be some
There does seem to be some evidence:
https://bgr.com/2020/09/01/coronavirus-spread-through-air-aerosol-transmission-studies/
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/20/health/cdc-coronavirus-airborne-transmission/index.html
Indeed, and I had not been
Thanks. Indeed, and I had not been not aware that simple breathing can produce aerosols. I’d seen elsewhere that they could be produced if regular droplets (from speech, singing, etc) were able to shrink in size due to evaporation before they hit the floor [12:30 – 13:15]:
Once so diminished they could drift much further, but crucially a mask would catch them in the first instance before they had become aerosol sized.
What I find surprising is that there are old studies predating covid which clearly show aerosol production in simple breathing:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19415984/
That being so, I’m astonished that the WHO had been so adamant for so long that there was no airborne transmission.
Anyway, if aerosols are coming straight out of mouth through ordinary breathing then masks are not going to be nearly as effective. So the answer to the original question is still no. The best defence is just being outside. So carry on cycling.
Yeah, we’re still learning
Yeah, we’re still learning about covid transmission, unfortunately.
I remember the early WHO advice about not recommending masks (was I arguing with you about it or was it someone else?) but then when the evidence started building up, they changed their tune. That to me is the essence of scientific/logical thinking – evaluating new evidence and changing direction if necessary.
There was two reasons for not
There was two reasons for not recommending masks / face coverings initially.
1: It doesn’t work for smaller germs and respiratory illnesses like flu etc so no guarantee at the time it would work with Covid.
2: The only masks that do work with preventing smaller germs were ones specifically rated medical ones and they were being snapped up by people who it would have been useless for due to not having all the PPE kit or training needed to ensure you don’t infect yourself when taking it off. So those masks were then not reaching the frontline workers who needed them.
When it was realised (via aforementioned scientific study) that aerolisised transmission was a vector it was then determined that normal face coverings would be effective.
Weren’t there also concerns
Weren’t there also concerns about untrained people using masks and then touching their faces much more and thus increasing transmission?
And potential risk
And potential risk compensation – i.e. people thinking “It’s OK – I’ve got a mask on, so I can crowd as close as I like to other people and it doesn’t matter.”
I think there was more to the
I think there was more to the mask debate. Early on the whole notion was about self-protection (hence PPE), especially for health care staff. Given demand outstripping supply authorities wanted to conserve what little they had.
It took the idea of wearing a mask to protect others quite a while to catch on in the west. The mechanism is different too – protecting others is primarily about catching droplets coming out of your mouth à la Roy Hattersley. Protecting oneself is mostly about filtering out aerosols (i.e. much smaller stuff). So general use masks don’t need to be N95 quality just to catch your spit.
But AFAIK it has never been about filtering out free floating “germs”, although that never stopped lively debate about the futility of filtering out viruses with cotton.
However if virus-laden aerosols are generated simply through breathing and so come directly out of the mouth, I’m not so sure cotton masks can do much to catch that.
Quote:
Aerolisised and airborne transmissions are two different things. The former is also called droplet transmission and is the reason for the two metre rule and consists of larger droplets not travelling further then 6 feet. The latter normally means transmissions hang in the air alot longer and and go alot further (normal breathing not sneezing) and normal face coverings won’t work as the particles are so small. I believe Covid needs the relatively larger droplets to give enough of a viral load for infection so hence not normally classed as airborne.
My understanding is that
My understanding is that aerosols hang in the air enabling airborne transmission, quite distinct from droplet transmission (basically being spat on, like when you take a front row seat at the theatre).
Re masks when cycling. I
Re masks when cycling. I always try to stay 2m away from other cyclists and pedestrians. More difficult with drivers with open windows but if I spot one I’ll try. When riding with someone I know who has been obeying the rules and is a responsible person I tend to trust them, I still try to keep my distance but I’m not ocd about it.
Unfortunately some motorists are surprised when I leave a 2m gap to the kerb when pedestrians are around and I’ve had a few punishment passes as a result. Police don’t seem interested and nor was my local mp when I made contact just after the first lockdown, the response was to quote the highway code advice to drivers to expect cyclist to suddenly vere off course to avoid pot holes etc. I also had a close pass where I left a 2m gap to two cyclists I overtook. A very rare occurrence.
I have to say, and I am braced for the backlash, that the majority of cyclists who overtake me, a very common occurrence, leave no where near 2m. They should wear masks.
The 2m thing, when it was
The 2m thing, when it was first mooted, came bundled with a duration, 10 minutes if I recall. It was never about just a fleeting sub-2m incursion presenting an appreciable risk. The covid tracker app does not ping you for every sub-2m approach either, there needs to be a sustained duration also. So in strictly numerical terms, I’d say that by making such unexpected evasive manoeuvres the risk you incur is greater than the risk you are avoiding. In terms of “Save the NHS” I don’t think the arithmetic is favourable.
The rule is 2m. You can put
The rule is 2m. You can put your own spin on it if you want to, I stick to the rules. I suspect it’s people putting their own spin on things (Dominic) which causes a lot of the problems.
I never said I move out suddenly, I move out in plenty of time which I suspect is why drivers get annoyed. The moving suddenly was the excuse that my MP gave me for doing nothing when I suggested the government might like to remind drivers that cyclists need to be 2m from pedestrians when I pointed out that most drivers did not seem to understand that fact coming out of the first lock down.
Bungle_52 wrote:
The rule now is 2m where possible, or 1m plus mitigation.
I often find it’s not really possible to give 2m. So I’ll do 1m, but time my breathing to hold my breath while passing as a mitigation.
It’s more about what happens
It’s more about what happens after, so more important to keep a sideways offset for longer and not pull back in too quickly.
hirsute wrote:
I’m well past before pulling back in – but only really for pedestrians; it’s a rarity for me to pass another cyclist these days!
HoarseMann wrote:
There isn’t actually a rule. There is (overly-simplistic) advice.
mdavidford wrote:
Yep, and interestingly, just being outside, or having a brief interaction is considered a mitigation too.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-two-metre-social-distancing-guidance/review-of-two-metre-social-distancing-guidance
Bungle_52 wrote:
The trouble is the authorities themselves put their own spin on things: my wife is a teacher and when we cycled to her school she was scrupulous about pulling to the middle of the road when there were pedestrians on the pavement, stopping two metres short of zebras etc. Then when she got to school she was told (official government advice) that she only need have a test if one of her pupils had tested positive and she had “been in a face-to-face conversation with them at a distance of less than one metre for more than fifteen minutes.” How on earth do those instructions reconcile with the general advice? Why, it’s almost as if the government make the rules up according to what suits their needs and agenda!
Oh, didn’t they tell you?
Oh, didn’t they tell you? Schools are “Covid Secure™” – it can’t spread there. That’s also why it’s the only place you can hold meetings five times a day in a small room with 32 other people and not be required to wear masks. Just wash your hands and you’ll be fine!
Sriracha wrote:
Yep – don’t forget to clarify, five different groups of 32 people, so 150+ over the course of the day – then you can go home and watch the proceedings in the House of Commons, where only fifty people are allowed into a massive room at any one time, and see ministers telling us we’re all in it together.
If cyclist have to wear masks
If cyclist have to wear masks while exercising outside, where does that leave gyms? Surely viral load is diluted in open air? Can any of the scientist actually give us data on how many people have caught covid from a cyclist? – or is this just more unhelpful anecdotal comment?
Presumably if people running
Presumably if people running and cycling should be wearing masks, everyone walking along the street should be wearing them too? After all, they’re also breathing, and spending longer in proximity to anyone they pass, due to their lower speed.
I made this exact point to
I made this exact point to local Nimbys on a message board complaining about cyclists on a local bike/walking route last year. Apparently this was ridiculous logic ?. The moment bikes/cyclists are involved in anything all sense and critical thinking seems to evaporate.
Nothing to do with the above,
Nothing to do with the above, but I just read the proposed ammendments to the HC. Rule 97 Before Setting off “for emergency use, drivers should take a charged mobile telephone, containing emergency numbers, and high-visibility clothing”. Oh the irony.
Can you imagine the world if
Can you imagine the world if the only people talking about politics were politicians? no thanks!
I’m invoking Betteridges law
I’m invoking Betteridges law of headlines on GMB, the answer is no, if people can run around football or rugby pitches mask free, so we can cycle,walk the dog or jog mask free as well
You can’t play team sports at
You can’t play team sports at the moment apart from elite sportsmen (who presumably take precautions unless they are part of French Rugby).
I give people a wide berth on my bike unlike nearly all the car drivers on saturday who decided close passes on pedestrians were fine.
Interesting point about gyms though by gray1000.
I’m not convinced all ‘elite’
I’m not convinced all ‘elite’ sport is remotely taking the precautions that guarantees anything like it wouldnt be any different, current restrictions not withstanding,to just pick 30 odd random people in a park for a quick jumpers for goalposts knockabout.
You’ll have to ask Moeen Ali
You’ll have to ask Moeen Ali about that!
I agree. If you hadn’t
I agree. If you hadn’t invoked Betteridge’s law, I would have, 🙂
Masks, while cycling or
Masks, while cycling or exercising outdoors (whilst leaving space around us) don’t make sense, they are for places where the virus may be a little more concentrated.
Funniest thing I have seen in a while was someone driving long at the weekend since the weather had turned sunny and mild they had folded down the roof of thier converable, but still had a mask on
.
The annoying bit was that it was yet another single use msk which will no doubt end up in landfill having been used but not needed
EK Spinner wrote:
Going by what I’ve seen, it’s far more likely to end up in a hedge or shrubbery.
EK Spinner wrote:
Confined spaces indoors and sharing space with people for prolonged periods are the greatest risk factors.
Roughly 1 in 1,000 people testing with the virus. How many people do you pass during a walk or ride?
But if someone wants to wear a mask outside that’s absolutely perfectly fine with me.
Even though I encounter very few people during my rural commute I still make an effort to give them a metre or more of room, 2 metres if circumstances allow.
“There is no doubt the virus
“There is no doubt the virus is in the air, there is no doubt you can catch it if you inhale air that someone else has exhaled. The exercising jogger, the puffing and panting jogger, you can feel their breath come and you can sometimes feel yourself inhaling”
Lets think about this outside of a Covid context. At some point it is likely that air was once part of a Brachiosaurus’s fart and since then passed through the respiritory and digestive tracts of many different animals. The air, thanks mainly to the coriolis effect, moves about a bit. All these dino farts and camel burps will likely have crossed Fukushima and Chernobyl a few times too.
Now lets get real paranoid. Sometime in the 1990s a comet hit Jupiter. The resulting explosions left marks in Jupiter that was visible for over a year later. That comet, if it hit the Earth, would have been greater than the one that killed the dinos. In about 2010, similar marks were spotted in the atmosphere of Jupiter. Thats 2 potentially mass extinction events in like 20 or so years. Ponder this, one day we may ACTUALLY DIE! So did you see the game last weekend?
Lazy academic makes lazy
Lazy academic makes lazy generalisations and uses “no doubt” in lieu of statistical arguments. She should be struck off from whatever professional organisation she is a member of.
She’s a fan of Piers Morgan..
She’s a fan of Piers Morgan.. that should be enough to get her struck off on the grounds of lacking common sense.
grOg wrote:
Firing people for having a different opinion. How very tolerant of you…
Re: Cycling bus tweet:- “it’s
Re: Cycling bus tweet:- “it’s encouraging to see the younger cycle bussers go from wobbler to confident cyclist over a few weeks. Space + Practice = Confident Cycle Commuter”
Anyone else suddenly had flashbacks to a certain someone stating children shouldn’t be in the road if wobblers, also they shouldn’t be on the pavement otherwise they would be expelled and shouldn’t be on shared paths around people if learning.
“Here’s something you don’t
“Here’s something you don’t expect to have to avoid on your bike ride…”
Last time I was trail riding in the Forest of Dean (seems a lifetime ago now) a wild boar and her four piglets shot across the trail in front of us – luckily we’d spotted their wake in the ferns and braked, she stopped on a rise and looked back to check we were behaving and it was quite clear there would only be one winner in that collision.
In case anyone is still
In case anyone is still interested in what we currently know about Covid transmission outdoors v indoors, this is a very well illustrated thread by Muge Cevic, a scientist studying Infectious Diseases / Virology at St. Andrews Uni:
Thanks for that link –
Thanks for that link – excellent info simply presented.