Mathieu van der Poel breaks bars on cobbles, throws away damaged drop…still helps teammate win; School cycle bus; Should we wear masks while cycling?; Tao hits back at Zlatan Ibrahimovic; Wild boar collision; Hot or not? + more on the live blog

65 thoughts on “Mathieu van der Poel breaks bars on cobbles, throws away damaged drop…still helps teammate win; School cycle bus; Should we wear masks while cycling?; Tao hits back at Zlatan Ibrahimovic; Wild boar collision; Hot or not? + more on the live blog”

1. Skunk Anansie – Yes It’s F**

   Skunk Anansie – Yes It’s F***ing Political – YouTube

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2. I personally am quite happy

   I personally am quite happy with the likes of Marcus Rashford getting involved in politics. 

   I’d also be happy with some politicians moving to sport, although I might suggest that Johnson be kept away from playing rugby with kids….

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   • Also keep him away from the

     Also keep him away from the kids mums (alledgely)

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3. I’m all for it. If you’ve got

   I’m all for it. If you’ve got a platform, use it for good. Tommie Smith & John Carlos at the ’68 Olympics, Kapernick taking the knee, even James McClean refusing to wear a poppy (he’s done more to educate young football fans about The Troubles by doing that than the whole of the English education system). 

   Now if only Tao could steer clear of the greenwashing of Ineos…

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   • kil0ran wrote:

     I’m all for it. If you’ve got a platform, use it for good. Tommie Smith & John Carlos at the ’68 Olympics, Kapernick taking the knee, even James McClean refusing to wear a poppy (he’s done more to educate young football fans about The Troubles by doing that than the whole of the English education system). 

     Now if only Tao could steer clear of the greenwashing of Ineos…

     — kil0ran

     Really?!?!

     ​That’s one way of putting it.

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   • Now if only Tao could steer

     Now if only Tao could steer clear of the greenwashing of Ineos…

     Agreed. It’s an article about ethics, and Jeremy Whittle fails to ask the most important question.

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     • HarrogateSpa wrote:

       … and Jeremy Whittle fails to ask the most important question.

       — HarrogateSpa

       The most important question to you.

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       • Jeremy Whittle spoke to TGH

         Jeremy Whittle spoke to TGH about politics and ethics. I respectfully suggest it is an obvious and important question, but Whittle flunked this journalistic test.

         Or do you really think all this is irrelevant?

         INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations. Corporate Watch article.

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         • HarrogateSpa wrote:

           Or do you really think all this is irrelevant?

           — HarrogateSpa

           It’s all very important.  But it was irrelevant to a focused piece on athletes being able to engage in politics.
           Unless you assert that they are personally held liable across their entire personal life for the actions of their employer.

         • Ineos is where he gets his

           Ineos is where he gets his money from. As you say it’s his employer. Everyone has to choose whether they are comfortable with the ethical stance of the company they work for.

           The article was about politics with a specific focus on ethics, so this is highly relevant.

         • HarrogateSpa wrote:

           Jeremy Whittle spoke to TGH about politics and ethics. I respectfully suggest it is an obvious and important question, but Whittle flunked this journalistic test.

           Or do you really think all this is irrelevant?

           INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations. Corporate Watch article.

           — HarrogateSpa

           Where did I even imply that I thought any specific issue was irrelevant? 

           You said it was THE most important question. I simply noted that maybe that was the most important question to you, but that doesn’t make it THE most important question … others will view it differently. 

           Besides the thrust of the article was Tao’s attitude to athletes involving themselves in political issues and focussed particularly on diversity where he has taken specific personal action to try and address it in some way. Seems to me like challenging him on the corporate behaviour of the company that sponsor his team is outside the scope of this particular article. 

           Doesn’t make it irrelevant, just makes it a topic for a different interview. 

         • Please make your points

           Please make your points calmly.

           Ineos is his employer – that’s where his money comes from. If he is discussing politics and ethics, it is a central question that a good journalist should have asked.

           ‘A topic for a different interview’ is a recipe for the question never being asked – and cycling journalists never do.

           Young riders like TGH and Pidcock seem like decent people with a social conscience. Pidcock used to plant trees to offset the CO2 for his travel. Now he is representing Scotland’s biggest CO2 polluter.

           That’s what disappoints me the most – they are clearly enlightened people but with a massive blindspot connected to their wallets.

            

         • HarrogateSpa wrote:

           Young riders like TGH and Pidcock seem like decent people with a social conscience. Pidcock used to plant trees to offset the CO2 for his travel. Now he is representing Scotland’s biggest CO2 polluter.

           That’s what disappoints me the most – they are clearly enlightened people but with a massive blindspot connected to their wallets.

           — HarrogateSpa

           Well welcome to the world outside of Harrogate, it must be nice up there for you. 

           It’s not always pretty down here, but we do what we need to to survive and try and see the best in what we can.

         • There’s no need for personal

           There’s no need for personal attacks or sarcasm.

           We have to halve our CO2 emissions by 2030, which is very soon. Ineos is a big part of the problem, not the solution.

           I’m sure we’ve all had to comprise our principles to earn a living at times, but there’s a line most people wouldn’t cross. It would have been interesting at least to ask the question and read the answer. And it’s not as if TGH would be out of work if he didn’t sign for Ineos.

           I guess this is how sports marketing/greenwashing a company’s reputation works. Fans get agitated and aggressive if someone suggests asking a difficult question of a sports star they like, and the unethical business gets a free ride.

         • HarrogateSpa wrote:

           There’s no need for personal attacks or sarcasm.

           We have to halve our CO2 emissions by 2030, which is very soon. Ineos is a big part of the problem, not the solution.

           I’m sure we’ve all had to comprise our principles to earn a living at times, but there’s a line most people wouldn’t cross. It would have been interesting at least to ask the question and read the answer. And it’s not as if TGH would be out of work if he didn’t sign for Ineos.

           I guess this is how sports marketing/greenwashing a company’s reputation works. Fans get agitated and aggressive if someone suggests asking a difficult question of a sports star they like, and the unethical business gets a free ride.

           — HarrogateSpa

           It’s not that, I just come here for gratuitous cyclng talk, I’m sick of negativity being brought into what should have been a mildy good news story. Imagine if every time Tao opened his mouth someone said ‘yeah boring.. what we really want to know about is how you feel about Ineos polluting the environment.. ‘  Maybe he was asked that question, if he was then I’d imagine that he’d roll out a similar answer that every team member would have most certainly been briefed on and I’d imagine that that wouldn’t get printed.

4. It’s a slippery slope – once

   It’s a slippery slope – once we accept athletes talking about politics, it’s only a step away from politicians cycling around and being sporty.

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5. Re sports and politics. Tao

   Re sports and politics. Tao has this one spot on. I believe that in a society we all have a duty to do what is best for everybody in that society, although this view is very unfashionable now a days. The current rule is “what you can get away with” or “survival of the fittest”. I am sure many sports stars can’t be bothered taking an interest in politics due to their “I’m doing OK so don’t rock the boat” attitude. To me this seems wrong but it does adhere to the “put number one first” attitude of most of our leaders and role models. It is also embodied in the vehicles which many sports stars drive, tanks with very good protection for the occupants but sod every one else and the planet. Well done Tao, Marcus and many others.

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6. Big respect to Tao, we need

   Big respect to Tao, we need more like him not less

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7. “Amid the fears that a wet

   “Amid the fears that a wet mask can breed germs”

   Does someone want to tell GMB that viruses can’t replicate outside of host cells? Coronaviruses might accumulate in a mask, but they certainly aren’t breeding there.

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   • True, viruses don’t breed,

     True, viruses don’t breed, but other germs do. You don’t want a mask full of mould spores or bacteria either…

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     • True. I had assumed someone

       True. I had assumed someone was saying that masks might increase the spread of cornavirus. But if the actual argument is people don’t want to wear masks (especially while exercising) because other germs might breed there, then that argument has a little bit more validity. 

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8. Velosambas – Great. The cream

   Velosambas – Great. The cream being the best, although they’d get wrecked pretty quickly even with full mudguards

   Tao – More power to him. Always thought he was a bit of a charisma vacuum, but have been impressed with him over the last few months

   Masks when exercising – Not for me (Clive), just stay out of people’s way. Transport, office, supermarket, shops etc obviously yes, as you’re more likely to end up in situations where distancing is compromised

    

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   • deviate wrote:

     Velosambas – Great. The cream being the best, although they’d get wrecked pretty quickly even with full mudguards

     Tao – More power to him. Always thought he was a bit of a charisma vacuum, but have been impressed with him over the last few months

     Masks when exercising – Not for me (Clive), just stay out of people’s way. Transport, office, supermarket, shops etc obviously yes, as you’re more likely to end up in situations where distancing is compromised

     — deviate

     No! When it comes to Adidas Sambas – I’m very much with Henry Ford, any colour you want as long as it’s black. I used to work as a Saturday part-timer in a sports shop that always had discounted trainers, and we couldn’t keep enough Sambas (and Gazelles) in stock. Of course the job didn’t actually pay enough for me to actually buy some – I could just about stretch to Hi-Tecs!

     Tao – agree. One of the constant responses that Gary Lineker gets on Twitter when referring to a political issue is ‘stick to football’ – why? Does having one specialism automatically bar you from having an opinion on another issue? 

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9. Quote:

   there is no doubt you can catch it if you inhale air that someone else has exhaled

   Any source for this, “exhaling” the virus?

   The virus is contained within droplets of saliva or phlegm, the virus is not itself free-floating. The saliva droplets may be larger (visible spittle ejected when people talk or cough or sneeze, most of which falls to the floor within a short distance), or smaller (aerosol sized particles that carry on the breeze). But whichever, the virus itself must be bound up within the droplets to hitch a ride. The virus does not simply emanate from us like spores from a puffball. And neither does the virus, being solid particles, evaporate as moisture on the breath then to condense into droplets – the virus must be in physically ejected saliva droplets.

   Not sure that happens just through breathing out (without some extra mechanism like your tongue flapping about in speech, etc).

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   • There does seem to be some

     There does seem to be some evidence:

     https://bgr.com/2020/09/01/coronavirus-spread-through-air-aerosol-transmission-studies/

     https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/20/health/cdc-coronavirus-airborne-transmission/index.html

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     • Indeed, and I had not been
       Thanks. Indeed, and I had not been not aware that simple breathing can produce aerosols. I’d seen elsewhere that they could be produced if regular droplets (from speech, singing, etc) were able to shrink in size due to evaporation before they hit the floor [12:30 – 13:15]:
       
       Once so diminished they could drift much further, but crucially a mask would catch them in the first instance before they had become aerosol sized.

       What I find surprising is that there are old studies predating covid which clearly show aerosol production in simple breathing:
       https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19415984/
       That being so, I’m astonished that the WHO had been so adamant for so long that there was no airborne transmission.

       Anyway, if aerosols are coming straight out of mouth through ordinary breathing then masks are not going to be nearly as effective. So the answer to the original question is still no. The best defence is just being outside. So carry on cycling.

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       • Yeah, we’re still learning

         Yeah, we’re still learning about covid transmission, unfortunately.

         I remember the early WHO advice about not recommending masks (was I arguing with you about it or was it someone else?) but then when the evidence started building up, they changed their tune. That to me is the essence of scientific/logical thinking – evaluating new evidence and changing direction if necessary.

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         • There was two reasons for not

           There was two reasons for not recommending masks / face coverings initially. 

           1: It doesn’t work for smaller germs and respiratory illnesses like flu etc so no guarantee at the time it would work with Covid.

           2: The only masks that do work with preventing smaller germs were ones specifically rated medical ones and they were being snapped up by people who it would have been useless for due to not having all the PPE kit or training needed to ensure you don’t infect yourself when taking it off. So those masks were then not reaching the frontline workers who needed them.

           When it was realised (via aforementioned scientific study) that aerolisised transmission was a vector it was then determined that normal face coverings would be effective. 

         • Weren’t there also concerns

           Weren’t there also concerns about untrained people using masks and then touching their faces much more and thus increasing transmission?

         • And potential risk

           And potential risk compensation – i.e. people thinking “It’s OK – I’ve got a mask on, so I can crowd as close as I like to other people and it doesn’t matter.”

         • I think there was more to the
           I think there was more to the mask debate. Early on the whole notion was about self-protection (hence PPE), especially for health care staff. Given demand outstripping supply authorities wanted to conserve what little they had.

           It took the idea of wearing a mask to protect others quite a while to catch on in the west. The mechanism is different too – protecting others is primarily about catching droplets coming out of your mouth à la Roy Hattersley. Protecting oneself is mostly about filtering out aerosols (i.e. much smaller stuff). So general use masks don’t need to be N95 quality just to catch your spit.

           But AFAIK it has never been about filtering out free floating “germs”, although that never stopped lively debate about the futility of filtering out viruses with cotton.

           However if virus-laden aerosols are generated simply through breathing and so come directly out of the mouth, I’m not so sure cotton masks can do much to catch that.

       • Quote:

         That being so, I’m astonished that the WHO had been so adamant for so long that there was no airborne transmission.

         Aerolisised and airborne transmissions are  two different things. The former is also called droplet transmission and is the reason for the two metre rule and consists of larger droplets not travelling further then 6 feet. The latter normally means transmissions hang in the air alot longer and and go alot further (normal breathing not sneezing) and normal face coverings won’t work as the particles are so small. I believe Covid needs the relatively larger droplets to give enough of a viral load for infection so hence not normally classed as airborne.

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         • My understanding is that
           My understanding is that aerosols hang in the air enabling airborne transmission, quite distinct from droplet transmission (basically being spat on, like when you take a front row seat at the theatre).

10. Re masks when cycling. I

    Re masks when cycling. I always try to stay 2m away from other cyclists and pedestrians. More difficult with drivers with open windows but if I spot one I’ll try. When riding with someone I know who has been obeying the rules and is a responsible person I tend to trust them, I still try to keep my distance but I’m not ocd about it.

    Unfortunately some motorists are surprised when I leave a 2m gap to the kerb when pedestrians are around and I’ve had a few punishment passes as a result. Police don’t seem interested and nor was my local mp when I made contact just after the first lockdown, the response was to quote the highway code advice to drivers to expect cyclist to suddenly vere off course to avoid pot holes etc. I also had a close pass where I left a 2m gap to two cyclists I overtook. A very rare occurrence.

    I have to say, and I am braced for the backlash, that the majority of cyclists who overtake me, a very common occurrence, leave no where near 2m. They should wear masks.

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    • The 2m thing, when it was
      The 2m thing, when it was first mooted, came bundled with a duration, 10 minutes if I recall. It was never about just a fleeting sub-2m incursion presenting an appreciable risk. The covid tracker app does not ping you for every sub-2m approach either, there needs to be a sustained duration also. So in strictly numerical terms, I’d say that by making such unexpected evasive manoeuvres the risk you incur is greater than the risk you are avoiding. In terms of “Save the NHS” I don’t think the arithmetic is favourable.

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      • The rule is 2m. You can put

        The rule is 2m. You can put your own spin on it if you want to, I stick to the rules. I suspect it’s people putting their own spin on things (Dominic) which causes a lot of the problems.

        I never said I move out suddenly, I move out in plenty of time which I suspect is why drivers get annoyed. The moving suddenly was the excuse that my MP gave me for doing nothing when I suggested the government might like to remind drivers that cyclists need to be 2m from pedestrians when I pointed out that most drivers did not seem to understand that fact coming out of the first lock down.

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        • Bungle_52 wrote:

          The rule is 2m.

          — Bungle_52

          The rule now is 2m where possible, or 1m plus mitigation.

          I often find it’s not really possible to give 2m. So I’ll do 1m, but time my breathing to hold my breath while passing as a mitigation.

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          • It’s more about what happens
            It’s more about what happens after, so more important to keep a sideways offset for longer and not pull back in too quickly.

          • hirsute wrote:

            It’s more about what happens after, so more important to keep a sideways offset for longer and not pull back in too quickly.

            — hirsute

            I’m well past before pulling back in – but only really for pedestrians; it’s a rarity for me to pass another cyclist these days!

          • HoarseMann wrote:

            The rule is 2m.

            — HoarseMann

            The rule now is 2m where possible, or 1m plus mitigation.

            I often find it’s not really possible to give 2m. So I’ll do 1m, but time my breathing to hold my breath while passing as a mitigation.

            — Bungle_52

            There isn’t actually a rule. There is (overly-simplistic) advice.

          • mdavidford wrote:

             

            There isn’t actually a rule. There is (overly-simplistic) advice.

            — mdavidford

            Yep, and interestingly, just being outside, or having a brief interaction is considered a mitigation too.

            https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-two-metre-social-distancing-guidance/review-of-two-metre-social-distancing-guidance

        • Bungle_52 wrote:

          The rule is 2m. You can put your own spin on it if you want to, I stick to the rules. I suspect it’s people putting their own spin on things (Dominic) which causes a lot of the problems.

          — Bungle_52

          The trouble is the authorities themselves put their own spin on things: my wife is a teacher and when we cycled to her school she was scrupulous about pulling to the middle of the road when there were pedestrians on the pavement, stopping two metres short of zebras etc. Then when she got to school she was told (official government advice) that she only need have a test if one of her pupils had tested positive and she had “been in a face-to-face conversation with them at a distance of less than one metre for more than fifteen minutes.” How on earth do those instructions reconcile with the general advice? Why, it’s almost as if the government make the rules up according to what suits their needs and agenda!

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          • Oh, didn’t they tell you?
            Oh, didn’t they tell you? Schools are “Covid Secure™” – it can’t spread there. That’s also why it’s the only place you can hold meetings five times a day in a small room with 32 other people and not be required to wear masks. Just wash your hands and you’ll be fine!

          • Sriracha wrote:

            Oh, didn’t they tell you? Schools are “Covid Secure™” – it can’t spread there. That’s also why it’s the only place you can hold meetings five times a day in a small room with 32 other people and not be required to wear masks. Just wash your hands and you’ll be fine!

            — Sriracha

            Yep – don’t forget to clarify, five different groups of 32 people, so 150+ over the course of the day – then you can go home and watch the proceedings in the House of Commons, where only fifty people are allowed into a massive room at any one time, and see ministers telling us we’re all in it together.

11. If cyclist have to wear masks

    If cyclist have to wear masks while exercising outside, where does that leave gyms? Surely viral load is diluted in open air? Can any of the scientist actually give us data on how many people have caught covid from a cyclist? – or is this just more unhelpful anecdotal comment?

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12. Presumably if people running

    Presumably if people running and cycling should be wearing masks, everyone walking along the street should be wearing them too? After all, they’re also breathing, and spending longer in proximity to anyone they pass, due to their lower speed.

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    • I made this exact point to
      I made this exact point to local Nimbys on a message board complaining about cyclists on a local bike/walking route last year. Apparently this was ridiculous logic ?. The moment bikes/cyclists are involved in anything all sense and critical thinking seems to evaporate.

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13. Nothing to do with the above,

    Nothing to do with the above, but I just read the proposed ammendments to the HC. Rule 97 Before Setting off “for emergency use, drivers should take a charged mobile telephone, containing emergency numbers, and high-visibility clothing”. Oh the irony.

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14. Can you imagine the world if

    Can you imagine the world if the only people talking about politics were politicians? no thanks!

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15. I’m invoking Betteridges law
    I’m invoking Betteridges law of headlines on GMB, the answer is no, if people can run around football or rugby pitches mask free, so we can cycle,walk the dog or jog mask free as well

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    • You can’t play team sports at

      You can’t play team sports at the moment apart from elite sportsmen (who presumably take precautions unless they are part of French Rugby).

      I give people a wide berth on my bike unlike nearly all the car drivers on saturday who decided close passes on pedestrians were fine.

      Interesting point about gyms though by gray1000.

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      • I’m not convinced all ‘elite’
        I’m not convinced all ‘elite’ sport is remotely taking the precautions that guarantees anything like it wouldnt be any different, current restrictions not withstanding,to just pick 30 odd random people in a park for a quick jumpers for goalposts knockabout.

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        • You’ll have to ask Moeen Ali

          You’ll have to ask Moeen Ali about that!

           

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    • I agree. If you  hadn’t

      I agree. If you  hadn’t invoked Betteridge’s law, I would have, 🙂

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16. Masks, while cycling or

    Masks, while cycling or exercising outdoors (whilst leaving space around us) don’t make sense, they are for places where the virus may be a little more concentrated.

    Funniest thing I have seen in a while was someone driving long at the weekend since the weather had turned sunny and mild they had folded down the roof of thier converable, but still had a mask on .

    The annoying bit was that it was yet another single use msk which will no doubt end up in landfill having been used but not needed

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    • EK Spinner wrote:

      The annoying bit was that it was yet another single use msk which will no doubt end up in landfill having been used but not needed

      — EK Spinner

      Going by what I’ve seen, it’s far more likely to end up in a hedge or shrubbery.

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    • EK Spinner wrote:

      Masks, while cycling or exercising outdoors (whilst leaving space around us) don’t make sense, they are for places where the virus may be a little more concentrated.

      — EK Spinner

      Confined spaces indoors and sharing space with people for prolonged periods are the greatest risk factors.

      Roughly 1 in 1,000 people testing with the virus. How many people do you pass during a walk or ride?

      But if someone wants to wear a mask outside that’s absolutely perfectly fine with me.

      Even though I encounter very few people during my rural commute I still make an effort to give them a metre or more of room, 2 metres if circumstances allow.

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17. “There is no doubt the virus

    “There is no doubt the virus is in the air, there is no doubt you can catch it if you inhale air that someone else has exhaled. The exercising jogger, the puffing and panting jogger, you can feel their breath come and you can sometimes feel yourself inhaling”

    Lets think about this outside of a Covid context. At some point it is likely that air was once part of a Brachiosaurus’s fart and since then passed through the respiritory and digestive tracts of many different animals. The air, thanks mainly to the coriolis effect, moves about a bit. All these dino farts and camel burps will likely have crossed Fukushima and Chernobyl a few times too.

    Now lets get real paranoid. Sometime in the 1990s a comet hit Jupiter. The resulting explosions left marks in Jupiter that was visible for over a year later. That comet, if it hit the Earth, would have been greater than the one that killed the dinos. In about 2010, similar marks were spotted in the atmosphere of Jupiter. Thats 2 potentially mass extinction events in like 20 or so years. Ponder this, one day we may ACTUALLY DIE! So did you see the game last weekend?

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18. Lazy academic makes lazy

    Lazy academic makes lazy generalisations and uses “no doubt” in lieu of statistical arguments.    She should be struck off from whatever professional organisation she is a member of.

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    • She’s a fan of Piers Morgan..

      She’s a fan of Piers Morgan.. that should be enough to get her struck off on the grounds of lacking common sense.

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      • grOg wrote:

        She’s a fan of Piers Morgan.. that should be enough to get her struck off on the grounds of lacking common sense.

        — grOg

        Firing people for having a different opinion. How very tolerant of you…

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19. Re: Cycling bus tweet:- “it’s

    Re: Cycling bus tweet:- “it’s encouraging to see the younger cycle bussers go from wobbler to confident cyclist over a few weeks. Space + Practice = Confident Cycle Commuter”

    Anyone else suddenly had flashbacks to a certain someone stating children shouldn’t be in the road if wobblers, also they shouldn’t be on the pavement otherwise they would be expelled and shouldn’t be on shared paths around people if learning. 

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20. “Here’s something you don’t

    “Here’s something you don’t expect to have to avoid on your bike ride…”

    Last time I was trail riding in the Forest of Dean (seems a lifetime ago now) a wild boar and her four piglets shot across the trail in front of us – luckily we’d spotted their wake in the ferns and braked, she stopped on a rise and looked back to check we were behaving and it was quite clear there would only be one winner in that collision.

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21. In case anyone is still

    In case anyone is still interested in what we currently know about Covid transmission outdoors v indoors, this is a very well illustrated thread by Muge Cevic, a scientist studying Infectious Diseases / Virology at St. Andrews Uni:

    But what is the likelihood of catching the virus outdoors? Contact tracing studies suggest that transmission risk is 20 times higher in indoor settings compared with outdoor environments. The risk is not zero but significantly lower. (4/n)
    (https://t.co/h6KQ0pAxMc) pic.twitter.com/kDQBAJWYP4

    — Muge Cevik (@mugecevik) January 11, 2021

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    • Thanks for that link –
      Thanks for that link – excellent info simply presented.

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