“Schrodinger’s bike bell”: Cyclists “can’t win” as Guardian writer asks for “just one ding from speeding cyclists” but others cite pedestrian conflict; Tour Brown Under: Lachlan Morton confesses “I sh*t myself three times” on Ride Around Australia + more
SUMMARY
Remembering a visionary, an icon, a legend — David Lynch
One of the reasons I fell in love with cinema was the vivid, audacious, and surreal worlds conjured by the silver-haired filmmaker from Montana, completely reshaping how I viewed the art form. So when I saw the news of David Lynch’s death — after walking out of the cinema with a heavy heart thanks to the (really great) movie A Real Pain, no less — let’s just say your live blog host found it difficult to focus on the doughnut instead of the hole.
Lynch, who became a Hollywood legend with his boundary-pushing works like Eraserhead, Blue Velvet, Mulholland Drive, and the TV series Twin Peaks, passed away last night, aged 78, after being diagnosed with emphysema.
So to celebrate and remember the icon, truly one of the best to ever do it, here’s an image of Lynch riding a tandem with his high-school sweetheart.
Can’t stop the wheeling: Justin Timberlake surprises 200 cyclists by joining Portland Bike Bus
We didn’t see this coming, but as proclaimed by the pop star all the way back in 2006, transitioning from a noodly-haired boyband star to a buzzcut-donning pop sensation, Justin Timberland is bringing sexy back — or should I say SexyBike?
Taking part in the Portland Bike Bus, Timberlake showed up as a special guest to surprise around 200 people, including families and their children for a half-mile ride down Northeast Klickitat Street to Alameda Elementary School, bumping his hits like Mirrors and Can’t Stop the Wheeling. I mean, Can’t Stop the Feeling.
The group, which organises the ride every Wednesday, went viral in October when they posted a plea on social media for the Memphis crooner to join them while in town for a concert, racking up over ten million views on TikTok and Instagram.
Samuel Balto, founder of BikeBusPDX and a former physical education teacher, said he had extended the invitation to Timberlake because “he’s awesome”. “I grew up listening to him. He’s got a lot of generational reach — everyone knows who Justin Timberlake is,” he said.
“I think that Justin Timberlake joining the Bike Bus would set a great example for how people can get around — on a bike — for everyday transportation.”
Given Timberlake’s conviction of drink driving last September, maybe he should steer clear of motor vehicles anyway and give bikes a spin. If he wants to go faster still, he can always put on a skinsuit… and tie.
Bike maintenance brand apologises to Sir Chris Hoy and removes video linking cycling legend’s cancer diagnosis to rival chain lube after legal action threatened
“I lost a little bit of confidence after the last two years and, well, I was finally racing like I was 18 again”: Daniek Hengeveld bags unexpected solo victory at first stage of Tour Down Under
The road racing season is underway, and we already have a breakthrough winner in the first stage of the Tour Down Under, with Daniek Hengeveld winning thanks to an ambitious solo attack with 50 kilometres to go and holding on until the finish line, foiling any chances of a bunch sprint at the end.
The 22-year-old Dutch rider was ecstatic to win in her first race with Ceratizit-WNT, joining the team after leaving Team DSM-Firmenich PostNL. “I lost a little bit of confidence after the last two years and, well, I was finally racing like I was 18 again,” she told reporters after the stage. “I was like — Oh, this is why I race. It’s really nice.”
“At the end, I just heard my sports director in my ear, ‘Come on, come on, come on’. It’s like, ‘Oh, f***, maybe they’re really close!’ I appreciate that he was still cheering me on because it gave me the extra watts.”
#TourDownUnder 🇦🇺 – STAGE 1️⃣ HIGHLIGHTS
✅ Solo breakaway day for Polites
✅ Daniek Hengeveld attacks with 48km left to go, surprising the opposition and surviving till the finish
✅ Ally Wollaston sprints to 🥈, Kathrin Schweinberger 🥉pic.twitter.com/mMFHjXvy6o— Domestique (@Domestique___) January 17, 2025
Team SDWorx is back… with the cringe-worthy cycling videos
The phenomenon of pro cycling teams and their obsession with making the most cringe-worthy, eye roll-deserving social media videos needs to be studied. Notable case studies can include Julian Alaphilippe channelling Celine Dion with bidons for microphone, and TBT-Unibet’s Eurotrash “bike reveal party”.
Now, Team SD Worx–Protime have submitted their entry to this lineage, with Marie Schreber, Julia Kopecky and Mischa Bredewold creating one of those “We are back baby” TikTok remixes with the M83 song Midnight City dubbed with audio from The Hangover.
“Finding a wolf in sheep’s clothing should not be a reason to attack sheep”
“It’s fair to say that Ineos don’t want to spend more money”: Ineos Grenadiers seeking a second title sponsor as team admits it’ll “take years before we’re back to winning Grand Tours”
It’s not unknown to any cycling fan by this point that the once world-beating squad of Ineos Grenadiers has been some way off the top in the last few years, failing to win a Grand Tour since Egan Bernal took the pink jersey at the Giro d’Italia in 2021.
With one of the team’s stars Tom Pidcock leaving on not-so-amicable terms to join Q36.5 Pro Cycling last month, it only looks like things will get more difficult before they get better for the British team — and the team’s new personnel, with Scott Drawer in his second year as the Performance Director, along with Zak Dempster and Kurt Arvesen coming in as directeur sportifs to replace the outgoing Steve Cummings, are not afraid to accept that.
Speaking to Cyclingnews, Arvesen said: “We need to come back and win bike races, start to win stages. Every race counts. It might take one, two, three or four years before we’re back, winning a Grand Tour, but I’m convinced we’re going to be.
“There are only three Grand Tours, there’s only only three winners, so it’s very difficult.”
But there’s still concern about team owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s commitment to funding the team — the British billionaire of course has another arguably more lucrative ‘sinking ship’ project to focus on in Manchester United with Portuguese manager Ruben Amorim at the helm.
Despite Ineos Grenadiers’ CEO John Allert confirming the team will exist until the 2028 UCI WorldTour and praising the owners for being “very passionate about this sport”, he confirmed the team was in fact, seeking out a second title sponsor.
“It’s fair to say that Ineos don’t want to spend more money,” Allert said. “So it depends entirely on what happens with this commercial activity. They very clearly do want us to be a super team and they know what it takes to be a super team. I’m not going to put a number on that, but it’s a number that’s greater than what we’re currently spending.
“You don’t need to be that clued-up to realise there’s a reason why we’re trying to bring other people on that journey with us. There’s value to be created for other brands and we don’t necessarily feel we have to, need to, or want to, go it alone.
“I’ve heard some bonkers rumours in the last couple of weeks about people buying us or investing in us or whatever else.
“We certainly have a commercial strategy that is an evolution of our strategy. We’ve appointed an agency and we’re looking at commercial partnership opportunities, like most other teams are.
“It’s a very crowded market. We haven’t signed anybody. I’m not aware of us imminently signing anybody.”
Drawer also spoke about the rapid pace at which the sport is changing, from the rise of Tadej Pogačar and other young riders to the growth of the big-budget super teams, and even new performance science such as the ability to ingest more carbohydrates during races and so race longer and harder.
He said: “Some of the most critical things that have probably shaped why we’ve reshaped ourselves are based on the changes that have really happened in the sport.
“I think the trends in racing, particularly pre and post-COVID have changed the nature of the type of cyclists that are now in the peloton. So we’ve restructured ourselves and set ourselves up to get ahead of that slightly for this year and for the future.
“Our motivation in our approach to racing is going to be very different, and then there will be a bigger investment in talent.
“It’s probably one that we’ve got behind the curve on, but one that we’re really accelerating to get ahead of the curveball.
“You’ve heard some news, and there’ll be a lot more news coming out around our importance in that space.”
Women’s cycling team sports director banned for five years over “inappropriate” sexual and psychological behaviour towards riders
Cyclist, NHS worker, and Sheffield bike lane guardian, Helen, better known as ‘CyclingInASkirt’ on social media, reaches “end of treatment” for cancer
It’s a sad day for regulars of cycling Twitter and the community in general, as Helen, who you might know better as ‘CyclingInASkirt’, has reached the “end of treatment” for cancer.
A Sheffield resident, Helen was a regular of this very niche corner of social media. In September 2023, she announced that she was diagnosed with cervical cancer and would be starting daily chemo and radiotherapy for treatment.
Unfortunately, this morning, Michael, her husband shared the following message: “As some of you may know Helen’s last scan showed that the cancer has grown and is impacting kidney function. This means we have reached the end of the road for treatment and are focusing on keeping Helen comfortable.
“The boys and I are heartbroken but also surrounded by so much love and care, and St Lukes Hospice have just been off the scale brilliant every step of the way.
“Apologies for the blunt nature of this message. I’ve been dreading sending it and feel like I just need to put out the bare facts for now. Massive love to each and every one of you who have followed Helen’s journey, I know she has taken great strength from your support.”
Love and support to Helen from all of us at road.cc.
“Bicycle Redistribution Point”: Spoof sign highlights train station’s bike theft problem, as designer slams police inaction and lack of security for cyclists
Tour Brown Under: Lachlan Morton confesses “I sh*t myself three times” on Ride Around Australia
450km a day for a month, sweltering heat and headwinds, and dodging kangaroos and truck drivers… with poo running down your leg.
Sorry if I might make anyone uncomfortable during their afternoon tea and snacks (I certainly don’t have any appetite right now), but EF Education-EasyPost rider Lachlan Morton has confessed that he “sh*t” himself three times during his 14,210km long Ride Around Australia.
In what I think is a more tasteful video from a pro cycling team for a change, the team sat down its riders (erm, no pun intended) for a confessional — don’t ask my why — however, most riders came up with boring, vanilla confessions.
“I watched the Tour de France Femmes but not the Tour de France for men.”
“My record in a coffee shop is four cappuccinos and three cookies.”
“One time in a coffee shop, I had four cappuccinos and four cookies.”
“I do face and nose masks with my wife.”
Boooooring.
And then there’s Lachlan Morton, who launches an explosive (no, really, it’s unintentional) confession straight out of the gate: “I’m Lachlan Morton. It’s been 18 years since my last confession. This year I sh*t myself three times on the ride around Australia.”
To be fair, I’ll give it to Lukas Nerurkar, who manages to hold his own (okay last one, I promise): “I had six cappuccinos and six cookies and I sh*t myself four times.”
But perhaps the most relatable confession, at least for your live blog host, came from team manager Jonathan Vaughters: “I’m JV and I’m a really truly sh*t bike mechanic. Changing a flat tyre during a training ride? I need other people to help me.”
Ouch, remind me never to do confessionals.
“Schrodinger’s bike bell”: Prof Ian Walker says “cyclists cannot win” in the to bell or not to bell debate
Professor Ian Walker, the environmental psychologist at Swansea University, most notably known for the studies involving driver behaviour when overtaking cyclists, has chimed in on the great old bike bell debate, writing: “Cyclists cannot win. For every ‘I want you to ring your bell at me’ there is an equal and opposite “How dare you ring your bell at me.’”
Cyclists cannot win. For every “I want you to ring your bell at me” there is an equal and opposite “How dare you ring your bell at me”
— Prof. Ian Walker (@ianwalker.bsky.social) 16 January 2025 at 15:01
And the tweet Bluesky post has resulted in even more cyclists coming forward and narrating their confusing experiences after ringing a bell when passing pedestrians.
George Morgan said: “A lot of people seem to interpret a Ding as always equavalent of an angry Beep. And it sometimes is but it’s more often a friendly, ‘Hey, just letting you know I’m here’. But they assume it’s the same as a car.”
Walker replied saying: “Exactly. Which is one reason articles like that one are so unhelpful.”
But a few have also come up with solutions, so to speak, on how to avoid such conflict.
Fernanda Ferreira said: “My strategy as a commuter cyclist is to say ‘ding ding’ in the friendliest voice possible and follow up with a thank you. A lot of pedestrians seem to find the bell aggressive, which makes no sense but the passing situation doesn’t allow for a conversation about it.”
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Same here. I have a helmet with built in front and rear lights and have a red light clipped onto my bag plus lights attached to my bike front and rear but still have drivers putting me in danger. My commute is about two miles and I normally have around four incidents a week where I have to brake hard or take other evasive action to avoid being hit by distracted drivers. A big percentage of these are drivers coming on to roundabouts when I am already on them.
Glasgow's South City Way sounds great, does it not? As a user from before and after I wholeheartedly welcome the construction of the segregated route, but so much of the detailed construction is poor, if not unsafe. I provide a link to a presentation I made when construction was half complete (a personal view) and the construction errors remain outstanding to this day: crossed by high speed flared road junctions, poor colour differentiation, car door zone risks and so on. And yet cyclists come because they feel safe. It's a complex subject but IMHO the feeling of safety (or lack of) is a critical component. https://drive.proton.me/urls/B67AK44G90#CFueBGjscoWr
I can only conclude that you haven't been into a city in the last few years. Food delivery riders in particular are riding overpowered "eBikes" that are basically mopeds ... powered only via the throttle without pedalling at significantly more than 15mph. Problem is they look like normal bikes/ebikes and not like mopeds so that is what people describe them as. My reading of the article is that it is those vehicles that are being talked about here.
I have the Trace and Tracer, which have essentially the same design, albeit smaller and less powerful. The controls are a little complicated but only because there are loads of options. In reality, once you've chosen your level of brightness, you'll only cycle through 1 or 2 options and it's dead simple. The lights are rock solid, bright, with good runtimes. The only thing I find annoying is charging them - if your fingers are slightly wet or greasy, getting the rubber out of the way of the charging port is a pain in the arse.
Dance and padel is all very well, but when is Strava going to let me record my gardening?
You can use it to check whether it's raining.
If it's dusk, i.e. post-sunset, then the cyclists should have lights on and thus the colour of their top is irrelevant. If you want to complain about cyclists not having lights when it's mandatory then by all means do but their top has nothing to do with it.
All of my Exposure lights with a button allow cycling through the modes with a short press. I have five of those; it would be odd if Exposure didn’t allow this functionality with the Boost 3. I also have two Exposure Burners if I remember correctly: they are rear lights for joysticks that clip on and are powered through the joystick charging port. They don’t have a button. None of my Exposure lights have failed. I looked at the Boost 3 review photos but none showed the button, so far as I could tell. I also have Moon lights. Good experience generally. One did fail, possibly because it was so thin it used to fall through the holes in my helmet onto the ground. Also, the UI and charge indicators vary for my Moon lights. Perhaps the latest ones are more consistent. My worst lights ever were from See.Sense.
Steve really doesnt like exposure products does he? Boost and Strada marked down for being too complicated. While the Zenith and Six Pack reviewed by his colleagues give them rave reviews (as most exposure products have on road.cc), the Zenith even touted as 'even more intuitive to use' with the same controls.
They are more interested in dog shit. https://www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/news/people/lancaster-police-launch-search-for-person-who-sprayed-dog-faeces-with-pink-paint-5605519
100 thoughts on ““Schrodinger’s bike bell”: Cyclists “can’t win” as Guardian writer asks for “just one ding from speeding cyclists” but others cite pedestrian conflict; Tour Brown Under: Lachlan Morton confesses “I sh*t myself three times” on Ride Around Australia + more”
The Graun has gone full anti
The Graun has gone full anti-cyclist this year – their circulation must be down.
Dont give the fuckers airtime.
Tbf it’s the weird bastard
Tbf it’s the weird bastard-child Graun Australia, not the UK version.
(Hence them saying bells are a legal requirement.)
Generally quite discombobulating when the Graun UK website picks up the Oz articles until it becomes clear, not just on cycling but all topics.
thax1 wrote:
Here in the UK it’s something weird like “illegal to sell a bike without a bell, but you can take it off the moment you’ve handed over your cash”, isn’t it?
Likewise pedal reflectors can
Likewise pedal reflectors can be removed, unless the bike is used at night. You do have pedal reflectors fitted, don’t you?
ChrisA wrote:
Yes – I’m a flat pedal user, so plenty of space 😀
Are there any good quality
Are there any good quality flat pedals for commuting that have reflectors? They always seem to be on cheap, disposable plastic pedals. Not something longer lasting and serviceable.
MKS Lamda/Gamma come with
MKS Lamda/Gamma come with reflectors and a big platform. You may not like like the look. I have Gammas on one bike and really like them for “normal shoes”. Seems they have a newer, “more stylish” version called the Pretzl too (expensive). I think some of the Wellgo “MG” magnesium pedals have reflectors as standard too. They are quite light and the ones I own have lasted a long time.
KDee wrote:
I’ve got a pair of Look Geo City Grip pedals which I find very comfortable.
Shimano Saints, but the
Shimano Saints, but the reflectors are sold separately at £14, the ingeniouity of the fixing is almost worth the cost.
A lot of Wellgos have fixings for standard reflectors.
No
No
Are you one of those people
Are you one of those people with a posh bike that doesn’t come with pedals?
?
ChrisA wrote:
Very shiny feet? Ankles like the nose of the Dong? (Perhaps chafed from labouring over the Hills of the Chankly Bore?)
I got to read the war poets a
I got to read the war poets a school. ?
Stuffed on my recumbent as
Stuffed on my recumbent as they wouldn’t be visible from the rear anyway. (Not that I do much night riding with it).
Do I a) go for “attempted technical compliance” (fit pedal reflectors, knowing they are invisible” b) same, but fit another set of pedals as an appendix at the back of bike (now visible, they’re on pedals, but the pedals don’t move nor are they attached to the cranks) c) just ignore the whole thing – especially as – in my experience – the recumbent is super visible as people go “wait – what is that“?
Bells vs voice vs nothing –
Bells vs voice vs nothing – depends on the scenario.
– If I can pass very wide of a pedestrian, then nothing.
– If I can pass but it’s narrower, bell from a distance, then slow down and use my voice when closer.
– If path is blocked, then bell, bell again and voice + a thank you.
This is my general approach,
This is my general approach, but my brakes are squeaky, so often slowing down is what makes them notice my existence. IMO if using a bell you should ensure you are using a bell at an appropriate distance so it gives pedestrians a bit of notice, but the downside is of course they might not hear you from further away, so I will repeat the ding if they show no obvious signs of having heard me and continue to block my route.
The article is over the top in terms of ‘four more …’ etc, but I I don’t take it personally that someone wants the less considerate cyclists to be more considerate – because I too want the less considerate cyclists to be more considerate. I hope that some pedestrians will be educated into realising that the use of a bell is a sign of consideration, not arrogance, but I’m fairly sure most complaints about bell use are mainly just complaints about cyclists existing.
If there is room to get past easily, there’s no need to ring a bell, but I might slow down a bit depending on how much space there is, and how steady they look in their chosen path. We can look out for pinch points, and assess whether someone is likely to move into our path. If slowing down a bit makes it easier to have a clear over-take – I’ll do it.
I’m less of a fan of shouting out, except as a last resort, because unless you are bellowing, a normal voice doesn’t carry as far as a bell, and if it’s a busy path and people are chatting or listening to a podcast, will they recognise that you are trying to get their attention? I also worry that ‘on your right’ could be confused with ‘move to your right’, but each situation needs to be judged on its own merits, and how confident you are that your voice can carry the necessary informatoin without sounding like you are shouting at them.
Of course most of these interactions could be avoided if people didn’t walk or stop for a chat in the middle of a busy path. There are plenty of pedestrians that are annoying to other pedestrians, and I think it boils down to some people being utterly lacking in an awareness of how their actions impact on others. They are so caught up in their own point of view, and I’m sure are the ones most likely to think that the use of a bell is aggressive, because it doesn’t occur to them that they are in the way.
Voice is far more useful and
Voice is far more useful and flexible than a bell.
If you want to be polite (e.g. shared paths), then you can use a “excuse me please”, “morning”, “afternoon” etc. If there’s a ped in the “wrong” place, then a spoken “beep beep” might be appropriate (alternatives such as “ding ding” are good too).
If a ped is about to step right into your way, then a shouted “Oi!” is really effective.
Meanwhile bells seldom get the wanted result and often annoy the peds.
This is what happens:
This is what happens:
or the classic:
or the classic:
To be fair, most peds (and horse riders) are fine if you say “hi” or “OK if I pass?” (usually preceded by a very British “sorry”) & then pass & say thanks as you go. As others have said though, there’s dickheads everywhere.
Clem Fandango wrote:
This has generally been my experience. I presume that “fond farewell” is a euphemism?
brooksby wrote:
In my experience, this has sometimes sounded like “you facking want some?” on a particular popular path near me.
Rezis wrote:
That’s why saying “ding ding” is better than using an actual bell
hawkinspeter wrote:
I’m trying to adopt a wider
I’m trying to adopt a wider range of utterances for close passes etc. – “Hello sailor!” or “Saucy!” – I shall add this.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Ah, like a sort of sonic skeuomorph? Like when they were searching for the sound to add back in to electric cars to cue people there was a car there – perhaps they should have used “broom broom!”.
Or is it for the confusion factor – like Gaspode the Wonder Dog in the Discworld series? “Woof, growl”.
chrisonabike wrote:
Ah, like a sort of sonic skeuomorph? Like when they were searching for the sound to add back in to electric cars to cue people there was a car there – perhaps they should have used “broom broom!”.
Or is it for the confusion factor – like Gaspode the Wonder Dog in the Discworld series? “Woof, growl”.— hawkinspeter
I sometimes go for “Beep Beep!” if the peds are wandering onto a non-shared bike lane – I think a car noise is better for sounding slightly miffed.
I have made the noise of
I have made the noise of speeding cars before when passing kids. They always seem to think it is funny.
With dog walkers I always speak to the dog, sometimes to the walker too.
I also do long runs. I might get a bell for the peak of my cap. Do you think it will work?
In my experience I don’t think it is about the bell, or not. Some people just don’t like anything other than people walking. I am ultra polite too and usually say some pleasantries, have a great day etc.
As said numerous times, you can’t please most people, sorry, some people.
I am more surprised that the grauniad printed such a bollocks article and the ‘author’ is a moron and should be ashamed.
Andrewbanshee wrote:
How about this kind of arrangement?
I always ring my bell when
I always ring my bell when passing pedestrians on shared paths, although if they’re busy then I tend to avoid them in favour of the road.
Most people are fine with it, and I always give a friendly wave and a thanks if people need to move or grab their dogs to allow me to pass. Sometimes people ignore me and then jump when I pass them. Sometimes people ignore me and then scowl or make some comment when I pass, you get dickheads everywhere.
Once or twice I’ve had dog walkers shout at me for not slowing down, even though I have slowed down and passed very carefully. These tend to be the people who decide that the place they want to stop and have a chat is on one of the main cycle routes through Southampton common and that it’s perfectly fine to have their dozen dogs running around off leads on a shared path.
The only time I’ve really been given proper abuse was from a blind man. I rang my bell from a good distance so I was sure he knew I was there and passed with a lot of space. But he didn’t like it and was very angry.
There are only problems when people misunderstood what the bell means. It isn’t a demand. It’s an alert. I’m going to be passing you and I’d rather you didn’t suddenly change direction and step in front of me.
Everyone needs to taake care
Everyone needs to taake care on shared paths. They aren’t suitable for fast riding. I’m a jogger and cyclist and also a dog owner (no I don’t use a long lead). I see this from different perspectives. On shared paths that are busy with cyclists I keep my dog on a short lead. When cycling along them, I go slowly and keep my wits about me.
I don’t have a bell on my bike but the brake blocks came off one of my BMXs and make a shrieking noise, no matter how you adjust them. Just a touch of the back brake is sufficient to let anyone know I’m there, and this also avoids the pro and against arguments for bicycle bells.
So there’s the answer, squeaky brakes.
Shared paths are the shrug
Shared paths are the shrug-your-shoulders copout of transport infrastructure. No use to pedestrians, no use to cyclists. But great for drivers who don’t have their precious road space impinged upon.
But squeaky brakes, and a freehub that sounds like a million angry hornets, are part of the solution
the little onion wrote:
Amen! Although some of the ones I’m fortunate enough to live near allow me to travel for several miles in a few directions and are almost always faster than the roads (just due to having to wait e.g. a minute at traffic lights – get stopped by a few and this really adds up).
I’m conscious that’s simply because they’re mostly under-used though. Plus they’re “wide” as these things go in the UK – so much so, the council is actively planning to reclaim them for “tram” * so as not to “cause disruption”. AKA inconvenience drivers and have to deal with utilities, compensation etc. as happened with the last round of “tram” (at least in part due to sheer incompetence) (* Actually their plan better fits “light rail transit” as they don’t go along the “main streets” or in fact near anyone wants to go for much of the route).
Quote:
What? Were there Reavers riding bicycles? I missed that
Chapea, sir
Chapeau, sir
You can’t stop the signal.
You can’t stop the signal.
brooksby wrote:
Quote:
Am I the only one to think that this is utterly insane?
brooksby wrote:
No.
If pedestrians are that interested in whether cyclists are about to pass them, then they can be attentive to sounds and possibly even look.
It’s certainly extreme. That
It’s certainly extreme. That said, if it’s a narrow path and a group of cyclists is a bit strung out, then calls of “there’s a couple more still coming” or “that’s all of us” can be sensible.
Give a meter of safe
Give a meter of safe clearance or stay behind till you can pass safely, if its what we want and expect on the roads why is it so hard to grant the same courtesy to pedestrians?
Robert Hardy wrote:
For a start, the speeds involved are a lot less and obviously due to cyclists not weighing 2 tonnes, any collision will be far less harmful. Also, a lot of shared paths are only a metre wide, so it’s hardly possible to provide a meter space.
Staying behind until you can pass safely is entirely possible though – the problem is when pedestrians spread across a path and aren’t aware enough of their surroundings to let cyclists get past.
Robert Hardy wrote:
How can that work when lots of shared paths are just pavements barely more than 2 metres wide (and often less) with a line of white paint and the peds are invariably in the middle? The attached photo is from one of the better bits in Shrewsbury (on NCR81) last month, which I generally avoid because so many people walk/jog across most of the whole thing. Despite repeated requests the council won’t clear the leaves for another month or two.
Here is street view of that stretch in November, and another street view a mile further south near 2 secondary schools, which is unuseable between 8-8.30am and 3-4pm due to the sheer number of pupils, unless you like to practice trackstands. It’s the same on nearby Bank Farm Road.]
While I agree that the onus is on the cyclist(s) always to slow down and be considerate, there do seem to be a large number of people who think we are encroaching on a pedestrian-only area that they should use as they wish.
I have found that a cheerful “Hi there” greeting when approaching from behind seems to be the best option.
Yes – have had people shaking
Yes – have had people shaking their fists (or just shaking) at me for riding in a very clearly labelled shared use path – one in fact built as that from scratch I think, not converted footway.
People are always going to spread out – “side-by-side travel” is a human fundamental behaviour (and should be facilitated for cyclists too!). Plus in most places in the UK pedestrians will far outnumber cyclists.
The solution is very clearly marked separate areas – except where there will be very few cyclists or pedestrians *. But that would mean taking from road/parking space in most places! So we can’t do that, because there is lots of demand by motorists, and there isn’t much demand by cyclists, because few people cycle because … (self-reinforcing cycle continues)
* This clearly can become “the norm” like in NL. And is then self-reinforcing (with a reasonable number of cyclists). If you’re in the right place you can move unimpeded on a bike / without cyclists close-passing you as a pedestrian. If you’re in the wrong place you have those issues plus you’ll also have others clearly telling you you’re wrong!
chrisonabike wrote:
Sadly you are on the button. Drivers have been told over and over again that they can expect priority, whether that’s in busy town centres or country lanes with no footway. Advertising and lobbying by car companies has a lot to answer for.
Politicians, including local councillors road planners and so on all think it is in their and our interest to put car drivers’ expectations (I don’t want to use the word ‘needs’) first and foremost; and that there is no real desire to cater properly i.e. fairly for other road users.
I’m reminded of the phrase “You can’t justify a bridge by the number of people swimming across a river”; and another – “Build it and they will come” e.g. Paris:
https://www.ecf.com/en/news/ambitious-plan-will-make-paris-a-100-cycling-city-by-2026/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590198224001076
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/9/e007593.abstract (also summarised nicely at https://www.mrc-epid.cam.ac.uk/blog/2015/09/08/build-it-and-they-will-come/)
This last one, a BMJ open article from 2015, demonstrates that the environment will change behaviour far more than ‘encouragement’, free coffee or other so-called inducements to cycle, as discussed on here last month:
https://road.cc/content/news/council-reward-cyclists-free-coffee-311897
Necessary but not sufficient.
Necessary but not sufficient.
In places like the UK the feedback loop between “demand for driving” and “provision of roads, parking, (lots and lots of other things also)” is generations old.
Driving has displaced other modes in most places (pushing some to near-extinction eg. transport cycling). In in fact has displaced the *idea* of these other tools in people’s thinking!
So to effect any significant change now it will take a whole series of “heroic” changes working together. It’s not just that “cycling must be provided for”:
a) Serious alternatives to driving are needed – which is public transport, walking AND cycling made so they can work together. b) Driving has to be made (a bit) less attractive – noting that this is the current “default” for many. The car is already paid for, there’s a smooth “fast road” (in fact a network) between you and the parking right by your destination. It’s just sat there waiting for you…
The latter is *hard* – politicians are understandably wary of not just saying “No” but saying “we will have to take away…” There’s your opponent’s open goal, right there!
But the latter has to happen else a) we can build, but mostly they won’t come – like Stevenage or Milton Keynes they will drive, because it’s easy. b) without taking resources (space, funding) from motoring we simply won’t be able to provide those other options – because mass motoring is a profligate consumer and inefficient user of those.
chrisonabike wrote:
Sadly true. Motonormativity is entrenched. It doesn’t help that public transport has been privatised and effectively run into the ground, most notably in suburban and rural areas while out-of-town business parks and shopping (the new religion) has accompanied peripheral housing developments designed specifically to facilitate access by car.
But until buses services etc are signifcantly improved it will be hard to take space away from private cars or prioritise other methods of transport, even in urban areas. There will surely have to be a co-ordinated transformation in attitudes before real progress is made.
Luckily we know both “how the
Luckily we know both “how the alternative could look” / “what we could win” (NL – perhaps)
…AND we have an example or two of “how to get to somewhere better from pretty much *where the UK is*” (for those who insist “Holland in the UK is nothing like *their* Holland *) – eg. Seville, some other European places (perhaps Paris, Oslo…).
https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2024/02/07/the-seville-cycling-revolution-a-blueprint-for-urban-transformation/
* there’s some truth to this, but in fact there are multiple examples where you can trace cities in NL – looking very similar to cities elsewhere – even in North America! – following exactly the same path towards mass motoring dependence before NL turned away to an alternative model.
Because drivers often find it
Because drivers often find it hard too and nobody’s perfect (indeed a few are bad on purpose)? It’s not really fair to expect people cycling to behave to a higher standard than drivers. Remember that some riders, especially younger ones, may not have read the Highway/CRT codes etc so would take some of their cue in how to behave on shared paths from how drivers treat them on the road, or when walking on a narrow footway.
I regularly lead group rides,
I regularly lead group rides, and I ask that who ever is at the front tells pedestrians that there is a group of [insert rough number] us.
I’ll normally ask that the second from last tells the pedestrian that there is one more, and that the last one says that they are the last one … quantified with “of us”.
I’ve found that in narrow areas – especially towpaths and trails – this has been reasonably well received.
For the sake of a few words, it reduces the risk of collision with the peds who may change course thinking that the group is through.
Every rider saying it … yeah, that’s insane. But not first [middle] and last.
The classic “I want cyclists
The classic “I want cyclists to do what I want because I am clearly right”. As everyone else is saying, you can’t please so many people. Bells annoy more people than they placate. A bell to most people is “get out of my way”.
On shared pathways around me I reckon about 70% of pedestrians are in the bike lane. If you say anything as you are about to go past people you will usually get one of a few reactions. If you’re lucky they just acknowledge you and stay the course. If you are unlucky they will act shocked and angry or my personal favourite, move into your way when they were fine before.
If they are blocking the path I obviously slow right down, communicate and pass when they have moved over. If they are clearly walking to the side, aren’t showing any signs of meandering or changing direction and there is plenty of space I will just go past them saying nothing as its by far the safest way unless I want to overtake at 5mph and make the overtake take 3x as long.
I would just like to point
I would just like to point out the irony of the headline claiming cyclists are spoiling the serenity by… (wait for it)… being too quiet.
A million years ago, as a
A million years ago, as a London courier, I had a bell that ran off the front wheel, it had a trigger on the bars and like a dynamo contacted the tyre. It was loud, but I realised so very aggresive. Now I use the little brass ones from Lezyne, just because the sound is so gentle, but the best is just a “Good morning/afternoon”
I very rarely cycle on shared
I very rarely cycle on shared paths as I prefer the slightly more predictable behaviour of drivers over pedestrians.
And when I first started cycling my bike didn’t have a bell so I didn’t get into the habit of using one.
I then got an Air Zound for use against drivers, but again I rarely use it unless the driver has been exceptionally silly.
I hang a bluetooth speaker from my handlebars and with my phone in my pocket play music through it.
This is my recommendation.
Unless the music is vulgar, no one should be bothered by it for a few seconds as I pass.
mitsky wrote:
You mean like The Rite of Spring, or something?
I used to whistle or hum the
I used to whistle or hum the theme to Murder She Wrote when approaching pedestrians.
mitsky wrote:
There are two objections to that, one is that whilst you can say that “no one should be bothered by it for a few seconds as I pass” more and more people seem to be choosing to play music on their bikes and it is pretty annoying if you’re having a nice walk somewhere continually being disturbed by cyclists coming past playing music; the second objection is what about your fellow cyclists who have to put up with your choice of music considerably longer than a few seconds? Several times recently I’ve got stuck behind someone at rush-hour on the London cycleways who is playing loud music and personally I find it incredibly irritating even though I am a great music lover and keen musician. There’s enough noise pollution without cyclists adding to it.
I’ve never started AND ended
I’ve never started AND ended a cycling commuting journey at the same place and time as another cyclist so I’m not sure how frequently that happens (staying together for an extended period of time).
Either I’m a bit quicker or they are so it is usually only for a few seconds, a minute at best if stopped at a red light.
As I said, unless the music is vulgar (or exceptionally loud – unlikely to be an issue if on main roads with motor vehicles) I’d think this is a first world problem.
If you ride on the
If you ride on the superhighways in London they are often so crowded at rush hour that you stay with the same group for very extended periods of time, so if one of them is playing music you have to suffer it. Dismissing antisocial behaviour, which I believe playing music from speakers when riding (or indeed when walking, sitting on trains, sitting in cars with the windows open et cetera) is as “a first world problem” is just silly, does it mean that we have to accept all forms of rude behaviour that aren’t actually directly harmful? It’s just bad manners to inflict your musical choices on others, I’m afraid.
There aren’t any cyclists up
There aren’t any cyclists up here (last Wednesday I went 12 miles up to Lancaster and didn’t see any cyclists until inside the town – and that was the masked crim on the illegal electric motor whose picture I have shown on here) so this problem doesn’t arise. However, I would undoubtedly be annoyed by people with speakers hanging from handlebars telling me I ‘shouldn’t be annoyed’ by their choices of dire music. I would be thinking ‘bugger off, or use earphones!’
I remember mentioning quite
I remember mentioning quite loudly to someone listening to music on a speaker on a bus about this amazing new invention, that they called “Head. Phones.” (with air quotes, for emphasis). They didn’t appreciate my point, unfortunately… I don’t think they’d realised that people existed outside of their little bubble of existence, as if everybody else is just an NPC.
Rendel Harris wrote:
On the one hand, I think that there’s plenty of noise pollution already, so we don’t need people to be blaring out music.
On the other hand, these people are sharing their music/culture etc. so even if we can’t stand that particular choice, it’s not necessarily rude of them from their point of view.
In summary, I wouldn’t want to ride next to someone blaring out pop tunes, but it could be quite fun if it was a decent choice of music.
(What does snap my cranks is live music in a pub as I have enough trouble following conversation in a noisy place as it is, but invariably live music is cranked up so loud that I can’t hear a thing. Also, it’s invariably poor quality covers of popular hits – I’d rather they just had a jukebox for that kind of thing)
hawkinspeter wrote:
Who gets to decide what is a decent choice? One man’s meat et cetera…
In all honesty I don’t think that people playing music on their bikes think that they are sharing their music and culture, I’m afraid most of the ones I see are just rather sad exhibitionists (often accompanied by a “wacky” hat and fairy lights wrapped around the frame) saying look at me, I’m so crazy and wild and I love music so much I can’t even do without it on my bike…not, perhaps, stopping to think that if you really love music you wouldn’t insult it by playing it on a tiny crappy Bluetooth speaker in the middle of traffic noise with wind rushing in your ears…
Rendel Harris wrote:
I get there’s a performative aspect and some of the dress is … questionable. One might question this on safety grounds also.
I prefer to tell pedestrians
I prefer to tell pedestrians what I am about to do.
Also, how many road.cc readers are getting up a midnight to watch the TDU so do not mind knowing who won by lunchtime the following day?
I now say ‘on your right’
I now say ‘on your right’ when passing, although didn’t work so well with the ped who was walking in the middle of the road in a rural area – “use your bell” was the response !
I’ve had people complain that
I’ve had people complain that ringing a bell is rude and “excuse me” would be more polite. I’ve had people complain that instead of “excuse me” I should ring my bell. Whatever you do someone won’t be happy.
Shared paths are best avoided
Shared paths are best avoided, although that’s not always possible. Generally I’ll ring my bell when approaching pedestrians. I haven’t ever had anyone complain (I don’t think a normal bell sounds in any way aggressive). Usually it works fine, but not always – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j-ZmKqIDgM
Weren’t lepers (the “unclean”
Weren’t lepers (the “unclean” of society) required to carry bells in medieval times? Maybe that’s why the progressively challenged are so keen on them for cyclists?
I think they should get them
I think they should get them to wear some distinctive clothing and headgear whenever they go out also – not everyone can hear them!
I usually avoid shared paths,
I usually avoid shared paths, except for easy leisure off road rides. Rather than use a bell, I shout “ding a ling a ling”, when approaching pedestrians. It means I have both hands on the handlebars and can steer and brake more efficiently.
Mr Blackbird wrote:
Ooh – that’s a fancy bell noise
Chuck Berry?
Chuck Berry?
shared paths are just an
shared paths are just an excuse to avoid putting in proper infrastructure – anyhow used to have a bell and got fed up of people jumping into my path so….
I now have a very loud rear hub on my commuter – sounds like angry wasps – people then turn around to see wtf is heading in their direction – works well
ceebee247 wrote:
Yes – or at best they bake in a low limit to active travel by a) giving authorities an excuse to limiting space and put infra “where it can be done” not where people want to go b) ensuring that as more people use it there will be more conflict between modes c) ensuring there will be conflict anyway.
Having said that the shared-use former railway lines around North Edinburgh are a great resource for me – because of (mostly) rather low use.
Once you work out how much time you spend sat not moving on urban roads (e.g. junctions, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings) you realise even slowing right down for a few walkers is not an impediment by comparison.
Except on the uphill bits;
Except on the uphill bits; freehubs tend to be a bit quieter then.
Trotify will still work for
Trotify will still work for you though… (more sonic skeuomorphs – restoring the “nag” to “poor-man’s nag”).
One of the most humanising
One of the most humanising aspects of being a cyclist is that, unlike motorists, we aren’t sworn to silence and need to communicate everything through an ambiguous system of honks and flashes. So I just say “heya, excuse me”, it’s worked pretty well so far.
Top marks for “Tour Brown
Top marks for “Tour Brown Under”
Those pedestrians on shared
Those pedestrians on shared paths that walk several abreast blocking the path always Anony me, along with dog walkers with their dogs on long leads across the path.
They annoy me as cyclist,
They annoy me as cyclist, runner, and pedestrian. Age 69, I walk nearly 15 minutes an hour faster than Google Maps expects. Consequently, I walk faster than such groups but it can be very difficult to get past until I almost yell, “Excuse me” and shove my way through. Obviously, I can’t do that on bike and the handlebars make me wider.
E6toSE3 wrote:
If you’re going so fast you warp time to that extent, you’re definitely a danger to all other traffic, and should consider slowing down.
This is more true than you
This is more true than you may think – apparently several acquaintances now define the quickest route between two points in the universe not as the time light takes to travel it but whatever Google’s prediction is. Further – such journeys are not expected to take much longer either – “well that’s what Google says”.
Same on the TPT. They feel it
Same on the TPT. They feel it’s their right to dominate all spaces. Strictly, they should never block the path where it’s wider than single-track.
I downloaded a sound clip of
I downloaded a sound clip of a bus engine idling and play it on loop via a bluetooth speaker on the handlebars – works a treat with pedestrians on shared paths / park roads.
Strangely, they dutifully move to the side when they hear the rumble of a large vehicle’s engine coming up behind them. It’s almost like they’ve been trained.
I find ringing a bicycle bell can have very mixed results. From being thanked for having a bell, to being chastised for having the temeritry to use it. From being completely ignored, to suddenly scattering in a wild panic. You just never know what you’re going to get!
Thanks! This is what we need
Thanks! This is what we need – market research.
What is the best noise for effecting notification of pedestrians (and ideally predictable lateral movement to leave room to progress) without triggering a negative emotional response *?
I wonder if you could volunteer and try a few different ones (I may try this game myself also)?
Car (road noise)
Sports car revving / accellerating
2 stroke motorbike engine
Rumble of approaching truck
Whine of e-motorbike motor
Perhaps throw in a few different ones as controls: noise of charging rugby forwards / herd of cows, horse trotting, steam train, helicopter etc?
PS. Also agree on the bell – quite mixed responses (but you definitely can’t win in every case anyway) and now if definitely safe to do so I pass slowly – without any special alert other than perhaps coughing / changing gear. And assume that any given person may be deaf.
* Probably a contradiction here – a very few folks won’t shift without being in fear of mortal danger.
I recently saw (and heard) a
I recently saw (and heard) a guy on a bike in Brazil with a white noise generator that sounded intermittently (but regularly). It seemed effective but would probably drive me mad as a rider.
I think there’s two things
I think there’s two things going on with it. One is that, for some reason, some pedestrians seem more agreeable to making way for a motorised vehicle than a bicycle. The other is the continuous sound allows them to gradually become aware of an approaching vehicle as it gets steadily louder, rather than being startled by silence interrupted with a loud ringing/honking.
Perhaps the best option would be an audible alert, akin to what electric vehicles now have to emit below a certain speed. This can be linked to the speed of the bicycle, so it changes tone with changes in speed.
Calling HoarseMann!
Calling HoarseMann!
Please see Rendel’s Met. topic about their so-far non-materialised copy of the Northamptonshire scheme to inform victims of outcomes, to see my request to you
HoarseMann wrote:
Spokey dokeys! (you’d have to be going slowly though)
Or even a broken deraillieur for a rave-up…
Hmm… it all comes back to Trotify, it seems.
Sometimes I think I should
Sometimes I think I should just min-max my bell and strap an air horn to my handlebar. It would deal with the typical runner with headphones, and the otherwise hard of hearing.
When on a shared path I slow
When on a shared path I slow down, unlcip my foot from the pedal and the noise of the SPD cleat clicking in and out several times usually alerts pedestrians and I always say thank you. I don’t use a bell. Recently, I came to a stop and said ‘excuse me’ to a group of three walkers who were blocking a shared path. They turned on me and started berating me for NOT using a bell. ‘But I’ve come to a complete stop and politely asked you to excuse me’.
Sometimes, you just can’t win.
The ramblers (often retired
The ramblers (often retired folk) on the TPT can often be the most territorial and passive-aggressive bunch. They have to make a huge drama about cyclist passing.
At times, I find the TPT painful to use and a no-go on bank holidays or weekends.
Dogs are often the biggest problem. The shared path is treated like a dog park. Dog leads many meters long. Dogs running under your wheel. Use a park to play fetch with your stupid dog not a shared path.
The path is very wide in places but walkers and dog owners want to use the entire width.
The Guardian article cited their right of way but by the same token the Highway Code says not to block the path. They know it’s a shared path so why so take the whole width?
Why am I made to feel like their guest on a shared path? Most paths in Cheshire, I’m not allowed to cycle on, but dog owners and walkers must also dominate the TPT!?
TLDR: people are becoming
TLDR: people are becoming self entitled dicks.
The whole passing people business is becoming increasingly difficult.
On my rides (city based so canal and river paths etc) I encounter loads of people wearing noise cancelling headphones. I use my bell then when that doesn’t work say “excuse me can I squeeze past” and often land up saying that several times louder each time.
And yet I still get shouted at for “creeping up” on people from behind.
Then there’s runners who have a very consistent behaviour of swapping the side of the path they are on right at the last minute – moving from the other side to my side and running straight towards me and then telling me to “watch” where I’m going. It’s akin to magnets pulling towards each other.
I also got whacked across the head with a walking stick by an elderly “gentleman” who took offence at me using my bell to alert him of my presence. That was after slowing down and cycling behind him for 20-30 m clicking my brake levers and saying “hello can I get past” a couple of times.
Could this be Lancs Police ?!
Could this be Lancs Police ?!
https://youtu.be/IXAQDrTBgHg?t=423
Could this be Lancs Police ?!
Could this be Lancs Police ?!
Nothing to say it isn’t! They could have prepared a justification for NFA in the unlikely event of them being ‘held to account’: “driver was indicating, which makes it legal”, a police officer must witness the event, confirmatory video required from the offending vehicle, only a momentary loss of concentration and even (to show they’re looking out for dodges from other forces) : driver has no recollection of the incident etc.
Not sure how people react to
Not sure how people react to bells in Australia, but here it can get you comments such as “Don’t ring your ******* bell at me!!!”
Yes (and there’s almost no
Yes (and there’s almost no cycling infra up here) I’ve experienced fairly vigorous criticism for saying hello and not ringing a bell, or for going ‘ding ding’. In the past I have rung a bell and had the reactions mentioned below. So I’m sticking with hello
I read that Guardian article
I read that Guardian article this morning. It did seem like a few hundred words of filler for a fee. Bells in East London: not heard due to headphones or generate angry reaction, so best not used. Even a polite “Excuse me…” can kick off rage but at least one such experience was understandable when I saw the quite large group of cyclists that would have gone past the angry individual a few minutes earlier – not nice people.
Runners are worst. The serious runners are in a zone and brook no-one being in a position to upset their stride. Have to admit I had to fight that instinct in myself when I was younger and running hard. On canal paths and other shared use paths, I’ll be on the 7-speed urban bike and, consequently, less pumped up than running
E6toSE3 wrote:
Well they’re not true cockneys then.
https://www.bells.org/blog/you-are-true-cockney-if-you-hear-bow-bells
All part of the UK fetid
All part of the UK fetid toxic culture of social media and driver-centric anger against people trying to ride a bicycle.