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broken bike.jpgPolice inquiry into death of Ray Dare continues
An inquest into the death of Ray Dare, the 91-year-old killed while taking part in a time trial in Buckinghamshire, has heard that police investigations are ongoing. The BBC reports that Buckinghamshire's senior coroner adjourned the hearing for another pre-inquest review on January 16.
Dare was hit by a van from behind on the Aston Clinton by-pass on July 19. He was treated by paramedics but pronounced dead at the scene.
Dare, who was a member of the Kingston Phoenix Road Club for over 60 years, had been attempting to complete a 10-mile time trial in under 29 minutes and 43 seconds at the time of the collision.
He held eight national Veterans Time Trials Association records, including riding 50 miles in 2h52m01s at the age of 88.
Speaking in July, his friend John Beer said: "Ray died doing what he loved. He was hit on a straight flat open piece of road, he had two miles to go. We should all remember him for the truly amazing cyclist and husband and father he was."
Buckinghamshire coroner Crispin Butler said police investigations were ‘ongoing’ and added: "There is no indication that anyone has been charged with a homicidal offence and there has been no request to suspend the coronial investigations."
Earlier this year we reported that a petition had been launched seeking to ban cyclists from Buckinghamshire's dual carriageways in the wake of Dare’s death.
It attracted 642 signatories and Mark Shaw, Buckinghamshire County Council’s Cabinet Member for Transportation has since responded.
He stated: “At this stage of the Police investigation I can advise that the highway is not currently being considered as a contributing factor.”
After providing a breakdown of collisions involving cyclists according to road type, he concluded: “I am not aware of any national policies currently in place which prevent cyclists as individuals or cycling as part of a time trial from using the dual carriageway network.
“Any national policy to restrict cyclists from these roads would require a change of legislation and an amendment made to the Road Traffic Act. In Buckinghamshire I have no current plans to restrict cyclists from using the A41 or to reduce the speed limit.
“I am aware that the police investigation into the circumstances of the fatal collision is in progress and the County Council will await the outcome of the investigation prior to considering if any further action is to be taken.”
Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.
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Some long straight dual carriageways are effectively the same as motorways due to the speed and behaviour of drivers. Used to be an old chap who used to cycle down the a38 nr burton on a tricycle as he was entitled but always half expected to hear that there was an accident involving him due to driver behaviour. Drivers plough into stationary traffic often enough, what chance does a cyclist have. As such i wont cycle on certain dual carrigeways. I think I would be in favour of cyclists being banned from some of these type of roads as long as a decent parallel cycle carriageway was installed.
Valbrona,
Why are they like motorways? A motorway has 3/4 lanes and dual carriageway, well the clue is in the name. A standard road, one lane. So they are nearer or as near to a 'normal' road as a dual carriageway.
You talk about the victims age as if it was a contributing factor when in all likelihood it was the large metal thing that hit him which was the greatest factor, or rather the flesh behind the wheel. If you want to start a crusade why not ban drivers over 90, maybe 80 or 70 or 60, those who wear glasses, those overweight, make cars so they can't go beyond the speed limit, maybe jail the Tossers that kill people using them...
There are also many examples of cyclists being killed on A roads, B roads, in suburbia, he could just as easily been killed en route to the TT, maybe just ban cycling eh?
Your initial comment was crass, the fact that you're trying to back it up is simply moronic!
What an uncaring lot you are.
For Christ's sake, if you've got a ninety-something year-old friend or relative or club member you damn well talk them out of doing a time trial on the A41.
There is a glaringly obvious case for banning vulnerable road users from some roads. All across Europe cyclists are routinely banned from dual carriageways, tunnels, bridges, etc. even when no alternative route is available, so not sure why this should be some special issue to the UK.
Really, your average contributor to this forum seems stuck in this deeply unhinged pro-cycling mindset at cost to thier own and other people's safety.
And the arguments don't stand up to a moments scrutiny ... I can't see how the Government on one hand can ban certain vehicles from motorways but not ban those same vehicles from dual carriageways ... when to all intents and purposes they are nowadays the same thing.
At what age should cyclists stop time trialling on dual carriageways? Over ninety, eighty, seventy... where would you like to draw the line? Why is it any worse for an older very experienced competitor like Ray was than for a youngster in their first season?
The argument that dual carriageways nowadays are more like motorways than they used to be is wrong. They haven't changed in their design in any meaningful way but they might have become busier. What I think has changed is driver behaviour and that applies to all roads. There are sections of dual carriageway where cyclists are banned like the A19 (near Middlesborough I think) so where the authorities see a risk they do something about it.
I don't time trial anymore and when I did the dual carriageway courses were my least favourite because they were flat and boring but they were fast so I rode them. I have no idea of the traffic counts back in the 1980s on the A1 and A12 but driving on those roads in the 2000s I didn't fancy getting back on them on two wheels because they seemed so busy. A lot of that was down to perception of course and my own gradually increasing risk aversion as I get older. If Ray was happy to keep riding based on his own risk assessment then that was his choice to make. As others have said he was frequently going to call a day after one last season but his competitive spirit couldn't be kept down. If you think anyone could have talked him out of riding on the A41 you are mistaken.
Mark.
It's obvious you don't know what a dual carriageway is.
A dual carriageway is a road with a central reservation. That's it. Can have any number of lanes and differing speed limits.
Youre calling for a ban on certain types of roads that you can't even define. You're a weapons grade twat.
Ray Dare wasn't a vulnerable road user. He was an experienced TT rider. Your argument is victim blaming claptrap of the worst kind.
Maybe that's the problem, people who think dual carriageways are for all intents and purposes the same thing as motorways when they aren't. Instead of banning cyclists from doing something everytime one is killed or seriously injured, maybe we should look at how to improve driving standards so that driver's don't get so confused about what type of road they are driving on.
I agree. Certain vehicles should be banned from some roads. The motorised ones seem to be the ones that cause all the death and injury, so I trust you agree that we should start with them?
If it's not safe as a dual carriageway then they should make it into a single carriageway with a protected cycle lane.
Harsh.
Cunts have a purpose.
No way bikes will, or even can, be banned from DCs. Part of the requirement of building a motorway is that there is an alternative route for non motorway traffic. Duel carriageways were not built with this requirement, so in many places they exist with no viable alternative. That and DCs does not mean a 70mph road.
What is needed is for drivers to stop treating them like M-ways. Both in terms of expecting there to be no slow moving traffic, and treating junctions like motorway slip roads. If you can’t safely enter a DC stop FFS, don’t just carry on and cause other road users to have to dive out of the way.
Time and again we see people refusing to accept drivers need to look out for other road users, not for cyclists (and other road users in general) to get out of the way of idiots.
Very sad to hear of this death, but have to say the idea of a 91-year-old doing a time trial is just bonkers. Folks, you get your chance of doing time trials earlier in life ...
Of course cyclists should be banned from using dual carriageways. Some of our lot are stupid and insist on riding along the most dangerous roads imaginable. In other countries, the banning of mopeds/horse drawn vehicles/tractors/cyclists from dual carriageways is routine, and for good reason.
What utter bollox, age is no barrier to completing in time trials, you may not be racing for a top place, but looking to improve on your age standard.
What are old folks supposed to do, sit inside and veggitate in front of day time TV. When I was doing TTs it was the old guys who often kept things going and still is. Keeping active when you're old is most important.
Remember it's also a race against yourself not the other riders, unless they're in your age group.
Right after idiots are banned from posting on internet forums.
well, I hope I’m still at least pottering about by bike when I’m 91, and that there will be somewhere left for me to do it. I hope you’ll give me plenty of room, Valbrona, when you come up behind me - I know you’ll be looking - there’s two lanes so you should be able to manage this. I feel more worried when the dually bit has ended and we’re forced together back on single carriageway main road, where more effort is required - or am I also going to be banned from that next?
With the cycling laws review coming up, the dual carriageway thing may surface - and it’s true that a lot of people believe that these roads aren’t suitable for bikes, that they are a de facto motorway and as it’s clearly bikes are the problem here, they should be banned. Remember there’s often a creeping/ratchet effect with these things.
1.if you mess about on the railway, the fact that you get hit by a train is unavoidable - the negligence is all yours: there’s no stopping or avoiding action the train can take. 2. TT riders tend to ride pretty straight and true. 3. Vans and cars can steer and can stop in time if the driver is competent, paying attention, driving at an appropriate speed for the conditions (like they do on Anglesey) and has working brakes.
I mention all this because reports of these incidents often sound as though a road death just somehow happened, that it was unsurprising or unexceptional, just one of those things.
Let's ban people in wheelchairs, the invalided, elderly, children, in fact anyone from crossing roads or even walking on the footway given the vicinity to killing machines and their operators. Why not ban women with certain clothing from going out or walking the streets alone at night.
In fact those children that were stabbed to death on London's streets last year (recently exposed as an horrendous number) were completely bonkers for going to school, going about their business without a stab vest and should have been banned from doing so, some of them were stupid to go out in public and allow themselves to get stabbed, allowing people with knives out on the street and banning kids from streets would be for a good reason.
In fact FIVE children are shot or stabbed in London every day, every fucking day, silly cunts being out on the street especially without a stab or bullet proof vest, just asking for it right!
Fucking cretin!
I'm sorry, but if you had ever met Ray, you wouldn't say that. The man was sharp as a tack and got real joy out of what he did. I know his wife had been urging him to quit for years, but he couldn't stay away. When I heard what happened it was a real kick in the guts.
I know the investigation has a way to go but it was a straight bit of road on a clear, sunny afternoon.
Do you know what a dual carriageway or TT is?
You simplistic cunt.
I don't doubt that the current speed limit is doing a very good job of restricting cycling on that road
Good God - a petition to ban cycles from the roads so that drivers can carry on driving dangerously and without paying attention??? Hundreds of car passengers are killed every year on dual carrigeways too so why not a pettition to have average speed camers on ALL sections of dual carrigeway? Maybe a better petition would be to put a camera in every car watching the driver to force drivers to pay attention to the road infront of them instead of checking thir phone? Cyclists are NOT invisible I simpy cannot understand how you can hit one without seeing them. Even the ones at night with no lights (who should be locked up) are clearly visible.