London cyclist killed in collision with HGV at Knightsbridge

20 thoughts on “London cyclist killed in collision with HGV at Knightsbridge”

1. Throw a politician under a

   Throw a politician under a lorry everytime this happens. Bet quality of life would improve real fast then. 

    

   Saw this footage for the first time today. The guy signed a form saying he wouldn’t use his phone behind the wheel of the lorry. Then gets into the lorry, and starts using his phone. Then kills a woman and her kids.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Em_LR2q58

    

   Story:

   https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/31/lorry-driver-distracted-phone-jailed-10-years-crash-deaths-tomasz-kroker

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   • unconstituted wrote:

     Throw a politician under a lorry everytime this happens. Bet quality of life would improve real fast then. 

     — unconstituted

     Quality of life would improve if we just started throwing politicians under lorries as a general rule, rather for any specific reason…

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     • brooksby wrote:

       Throw a politician under a lorry everytime this happens. Bet quality of life would improve real fast then. 

       — brooksby

       Quality of life would improve if we just started throwing politicians under lorries as a general rule, rather for any specific reason…

       — unconstituted

        

       Cannot disagree with that 

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   • unconstituted wrote:

     Saw this footage for the first time today. The guy signed a form saying he wouldn’t use his phone behind the wheel of the lorry. Then gets into the lorry, and starts using his phone . Then kills a woman and her kids.
      

     — unconstituted

     Less than an hour after signing the form 

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   • unconstituted wrote:

     Throw a politician under a lorry everytime this happens. Bet quality of life would improve real fast then. 

      

     Saw this footage for the first time today. The guy signed a form saying he wouldn’t use his phone behind the wheel of the lorry. Then gets into the lorry, and starts using his phone. Then kills a woman and her kids.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Em_LR2q58

      

     Story:

     https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/31/lorry-driver-distracted-phone-jailed-10-years-crash-deaths-tomasz-kroker

     — unconstituted

     Fully sickening, I’m actually sat at my desk crying after seeing that. Will have to take a few minutes before cycling home.
     I hope this can be the turning point for mobile device use while driving/riding and attitudes towards such.
     I’m also slightly angry that we don’t seem to see these sort of sentences when it’s “just a cyclist” that is affected.
     Sadly, it is now that time of year when fatalaties spike 🙁

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   • unconstituted wrote:

      

     Saw this footage for the first time today. The guy signed a form saying he wouldn’t use his phone behind the wheel of the lorry. Then gets into the lorry, and starts using his phone. Then kills a woman and her kids.

     — unconstituted

      

     As clear an example of why cars should be fitted with black boxes as ever.  Last 30 min of driven time, in cabin video with sound + forward looking video on a loop.  Tested at MOT time.  Chaep to implement and should allow large scale forensic level examination of the causes of crashes in one fell swoop.  

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2. Whilst it’s always a tragedy

   Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

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   • mbrads72 wrote:

     Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

     — mbrads72

     It always helps if there is dashcam footage of what the driver is doing just before and during the accident.

     Unfortunately with HGVs in cities the main issue is why are they there at that time in the first place.

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     • Bluebug wrote:

       Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

       — Bluebug

       It always helps if there is dashcam footage of what the driver is doing just before and during the accident.

       — mbrads72

       That’s exactly the point.  To put an offence into the most serious category for sentence you need to show a “deliberate decision to ignore (or a flagrant disregard for) the rules of the road and an apparent disregard for the great danger being caused to others”.  The Prosecution have to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and that’s often hard to do.  In a mobile phone case, for example, you may have some eyewitness evidence that the driver was looking at their phone but if the defendant says that they only glanced down for a few seconds then it’s hard to disprove that.  And while we can rant as much as we like about locking them all up for ever, bloody drivers, all just murderers etc etc, the law distinguishes between levels of fault and it does so on the basis of proof.

       Here we have cab footage that shows beyond doubt that he ignored the rules of the road (indeed, ignored the road) for a prolonged period.  Add in killing multiple victims and the recent reminder not to use his phone and you get to the high sentence.  It would have been just as high had they been cyclists.

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       • Dan S wrote:

         Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

         — Dan S

         It always helps if there is dashcam footage of what the driver is doing just before and during the accident.

         — Bluebug

         That’s exactly the point.  To put an offence into the most serious category for sentence you need to show a “deliberate decision to ignore (or a flagrant disregard for) the rules of the road and an apparent disregard for the great danger being caused to others”.  The Prosecution have to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and that’s often hard to do.  In a mobile phone case, for example, you may have some eyewitness evidence that the driver was looking at their phone but if the defendant says that they only glanced down for a few seconds then it’s hard to disprove that.  And while we can rant as much as we like about locking them all up for ever, bloody drivers, all just murderers etc etc, the law distinguishes between levels of fault and it does so on the basis of proof.

         Here we have cab footage that shows beyond doubt that he ignored the rules of the road (indeed, ignored the road) for a prolonged period.  Add in killing multiple victims and the recent reminder not to use his phone and you get to the high sentence.  It would have been just as high had they been cyclists.

         — mbrads72

          

         Similar story from 2009 – 3 years for killing a family of six and disqualified from driving for three years. Beggars belief…

         http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4640395/Portuguese-lorry-driver-who-killed-family-of-six-jailed-for-just-three-years.html

          

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         • kil0ran wrote:

           Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

           — kil0ran

           It always helps if there is dashcam footage of what the driver is doing just before and during the accident.

           — Dan S

           That’s exactly the point.  To put an offence into the most serious category for sentence you need to show a “deliberate decision to ignore (or a flagrant disregard for) the rules of the road and an apparent disregard for the great danger being caused to others”.  The Prosecution have to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and that’s often hard to do.  In a mobile phone case, for example, you may have some eyewitness evidence that the driver was looking at their phone but if the defendant says that they only glanced down for a few seconds then it’s hard to disprove that.  And while we can rant as much as we like about locking them all up for ever, bloody drivers, all just murderers etc etc, the law distinguishes between levels of fault and it does so on the basis of proof.

           Here we have cab footage that shows beyond doubt that he ignored the rules of the road (indeed, ignored the road) for a prolonged period.  Add in killing multiple victims and the recent reminder not to use his phone and you get to the high sentence.  It would have been just as high had they been cyclists.

           — Bluebug

            

           Similar story from 2009 – 3 years for killing a family of six and disqualified from driving for three years. Beggars belief…

           http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4640395/Portuguese-lorry-driver-who-killed-family-of-six-jailed-for-just-three-years.html

            

           — mbrads72

           Yes, but in 2009 the maximum sentence was 5 years. Since then it’s been increased to 14, in recognition of the fact that 5 years is nowhere near enough. The law is gradually moving away from the position that if it happens behind the wheel of a car then it should be leniently dealt with. It’s gradual, and it will take time, but it’s going in the right direction.

       • Dan S wrote:

         Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

         — Dan S

         It always helps if there is dashcam footage of what the driver is doing just before and during the accident.

         — Bluebug

         That’s exactly the point.  To put an offence into the most serious category for sentence you need to show a “deliberate decision to ignore (or a flagrant disregard for) the rules of the road and an apparent disregard for the great danger being caused to others”.  The Prosecution have to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and that’s often hard to do.  In a mobile phone case, for example, you may have some eyewitness evidence that the driver was looking at their phone but if the defendant says that they only glanced down for a few seconds then it’s hard to disprove that.  And while we can rant as much as we like about locking them all up for ever, bloody drivers, all just murderers etc etc, the law distinguishes between levels of fault and it does so on the basis of proof.

         Here we have cab footage that shows beyond doubt that he ignored the rules of the road (indeed, ignored the road) for a prolonged period.  Add in killing multiple victims and the recent reminder not to use his phone and you get to the high sentence.  It would have been just as high had they been cyclists.

         — mbrads72

         I hate with a passion the statement ‘I only looked down for a few seconds’ almost as much as I hate the courts treating the people who use it with such leiniency.

         ‘Oh well if it was only a few seconds that you weren’t concentrating on the road while driving your block of metal’ Fuck’s sake.

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         • STiG911 wrote:

           Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

           — STiG911

           It always helps if there is dashcam footage of what the driver is doing just before and during the accident.

           — Dan S

           That’s exactly the point.  To put an offence into the most serious category for sentence you need to show a “deliberate decision to ignore (or a flagrant disregard for) the rules of the road and an apparent disregard for the great danger being caused to others”.  The Prosecution have to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and that’s often hard to do.  In a mobile phone case, for example, you may have some eyewitness evidence that the driver was looking at their phone but if the defendant says that they only glanced down for a few seconds then it’s hard to disprove that.  And while we can rant as much as we like about locking them all up for ever, bloody drivers, all just murderers etc etc, the law distinguishes between levels of fault and it does so on the basis of proof.

           Here we have cab footage that shows beyond doubt that he ignored the rules of the road (indeed, ignored the road) for a prolonged period.  Add in killing multiple victims and the recent reminder not to use his phone and you get to the high sentence.  It would have been just as high had they been cyclists.

           — Bluebug

           I hate with a passion the statement ‘I only looked down for a few seconds’ almost as much as I hate the courts treating the people who use it with such leiniency.

           ‘Oh well if it was only a few seconds that you weren’t concentrating on the road while driving your block of metal’ Fuck’s sake.

           — mbrads72

           Yup, me too. I have to deal with it on pretty much a weekly basis…

   • mbrads72 wrote:

     Whilst it’s always a tragedy and not a point-scoring exercise I did struggle to reconcile the 10 year custodial  sentence with the usual slap on the wrist if the victim is a cyclist.

     — mbrads72

     I think it’s just as appauling actually. 2.5 years per life, plus the guy who ended up with a broken back? Yep, standard shite UK sentance.

      

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3. RIP.

   RIP.

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4. Well it’s nearly 1st November

   Well it’s nearly 1st November, the start of London motorists open season cull of cyclists. 

   I wonder how many the hgv drivers will be able to rack up between them this year! 

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5. I was riding through that

   I was riding through that junction on Friday, there seemed to be more heavy vehicles than I’d normally see there. I’m guessing it may have been due to the new roadworks in the vicinity. RIP to the rider, and condolences to the F&F.

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6. Just watched that video for

   Just watched that video for the first time… What I think is worth focusing on is the manner in which the driver looks up from his phone – I guess to check that all is OK – and then continues fiddling. 

   The point is that he looked up, and at that time, it was clear he should be braking, but didn’t absorb that information. 

   So, people may say that they ‘only look away for a couple of seconds’ but there is clearly a lag between looking back at the road and being back in the room so to speak. 

    

    

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7. Story: “The driver of the

   Story: “The driver of the lorry stopped at the scene, but has not been arrested.

   Standard: “Police said the lorry driver, a 42-year-old man, stopped at the scene and was arrested on suspicion of death by careless driving.

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   • Sven Ellis wrote:

     Story: “The driver of the lorry stopped at the scene, but has not been arrested.

     Standard: “Police said the lorry driver, a 42-year-old man, stopped at the scene and was arrested on suspicion of death by careless driving.

     — Sven Ellis

     Correct at the time the story was published, will update it.

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