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  • News
Surrey Police tell driver to return licence video
Surrey Police tell driver to return licence video (Twitter video screenshot) (Image Credit: Twitter video screenshot)

Surrey traffic cops tell driver spouting Highway Code whataboutery to return licence; Chad Tavernia racks up more saddleless miles; Southeastern angered by “reckless” rider crossing; Road safety main concern for female cyclists + more on the live blog

We’re back for another week of live blog goodness starting with Monday’s feed put together by a well-rested and double-jabbed Dan Alexander
  • by Dan Alexander
Mon, Aug 23, 2021 08:07
16

SUMMARY

  • Road safety the biggest barrier to women's cycling
  • Take your litter home
  • Southeastern angered by "reckless" cyclist and jogger crossing tracks in front of oncoming train
  • Forest of Dean MTB downhill trails reopen
  • Surrey traffic cops tell driver spouting Highway Code whataboutery to return licence
  • More BMX success for Bethany Shriever as Olympic champ adds world championship to glittering palmares
  • Tell me you've never used a bike rack without telling me you've never used a bike rack
  • Saddleless hero Chad Tavernia racks up more miles without his seatpost
  • Ethan Hayter's stellar run continues with victory in Norway
  • Peak cycling out of context
  • Ineos Grenadiers' Cameron Wurf shatters course record at Ironman Copenhagen
  • Pacenti partners with Cornish UCI Continental team Saint Piran
  • When you open your mouth about cycling
Surrey Police tell driver to return licence video
Surrey Police tell driver to return licence video (Twitter video screenshot) (Image Credit: Twitter video screenshot)
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23 August 2021, 08:07

Road safety the biggest barrier to women's cycling

Rapha Women's 100 2021 (press release)
Rapha Women's 100 2021 (press release) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Rapha Women's 100 2021 (press release)
Rapha Women's 100 2021 (press release) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

A study by cycling insurance providers Laka found that 42 per cent of women do not feel comfortable riding a bike on UK roads. Almost half of women (45 per cent) added that well-lit cycle lanes would encourage them to use their bikes more.

Laka surveyed more than 2,000 female cyclists, male riders and non-cyclists from across the UK about issues around cycling, including areas concerning alternative sustainable transport such as cargo bikes and e-bikes. 

The results showed that 48 per cent of women surveyed own a bike, however 42 per cent do not feel confident riding on UK roads. Despite this, 36 per cent still said they are more likely to change their primary modes of transport post Covid and said that well-lit cycle lanes (45 per cent), increased infrastructure (27 per cent) and government grants (21 per cent) would encourage them to cycle more often.

When looking at motivation for picking one mode of transport over another, ease of travel (43 per cent), time taken to travel (42 per cent), cost (42 per cent) and safety (42 per cent) were the main factors. Only 14 per cent said they would consider the impact on the environment when choosing how to travel.

“Whilst Covid has made many of us more introspective about our role in the environment and our lives in general,” Tobias Taupitz, CEO of Laka said. “These will only be adopted in volume when women’s concerns about safety and facilities are properly addressed, as well as perceived barriers in terms of time and cost.”

23 August 2021, 08:07

Take your litter home

Sorry for the moan, but don’t throw your f**king gel wrappers in a random hedge in bike races. Lad today did it in Ryedale GP. Asked him why and he genuinely couldn’t see anything wrong with it… Seems common sense isn’t very common nowadays

— Cameron Jeffers (@Cameron_Jeffers) August 22, 2021

23 August 2021, 08:07

Southeastern angered by "reckless" cyclist and jogger crossing tracks in front of oncoming train

Network Rail released this clip of a man riding a bike and woman jogging both ignoring a red light to nip across the tracks ahead of an oncoming train, saving themselves at most ten seconds.

I’ll leave it up to you to decide if this belongs in the ‘idiot who just so happens to be on a bike’ genre…but ‘cyclist’ makes for a far less clunky headline. The CCTV footage is from the end of July in Canterbury and shows the pair jumping across the tracks as soon as one train has passed, narrowly ahead of a second’s arrival moments later.

Southeastern’s Head of Drivers Jim Maxwell slammed their actions as “reckless” and said: “Incidents like this can have a profound effect on our drivers’ mental health and wellbeing, and I fully support our colleagues at Network Rail and the British Transport Police in trying to identify and pursue the culprits.

“Our drivers are critical workers delivering a very important service, and don’t deserve the extra stress that these types of incidents cause.”

Network Rail’s Head of Route Quality Health Safety & Environment added: “It’s really important to remember that when one train passes, another one may be coming the other way. In this case the jogger and cyclist had a red light to warn them, and they still walked out in front of a train.

“This adult pair’s behaviour, apparently putting their desire not to interrupt their exercise to cross the railway safely, nearly cost them their lives and is a clear example of how you put your life at risk as soon as you ignore the red light warning at level crossings.”

Network Rail occasionally highlight particularly bad incidents to try and educate the public. Back in March, the rail provider slammed a group of “senselessly idiotic” mountain bikers who dipped across the tracks while the light was red, eight seconds before a train passed.

23 August 2021, 08:07

Forest of Dean MTB downhill trails reopen

Forest of Dean mountain biking (press release Forestry England)
Forest of Dean mountain biking (press release Forestry England) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Forest of Dean mountain biking (press release Forestry England)
Forest of Dean mountain biking (press release Forestry England) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

Good news for Forest of Dean mountain bikers…Countdown and Launchpad’s £77,000 refurb has now been completed and both  the downhill trails are open again. Our friends over at off-road.cc are almost certainly more qualified for this one, so check out their story for all the details.

23 August 2021, 08:07

Surrey traffic cops tell driver spouting Highway Code whataboutery to return licence

Question of the day:

If you were stopped by Police and asked 10 random questions about the Highway Code, do you think you’d get 8 or more right?

— Roads Policing Unit (RPU) – Surrey Police – UK (@SurreyRoadCops) August 22, 2021

 Yesterday, the famous Surrey Roads Policing Unit asked a question along the lines of something I’m sure many of us have at one point or another wondered, especially given the context of the recent uproar at the proposed Highway Code changes. ‘If you were stopped by police and asked ten random questions about the Highway Code, do you think you’d get eight or more right?’

32 per cent said no, 62 per cent backed themselves…six claimed not to know what the Highway Code is. The main story however was one reply which caught the attention of everyone’s favourite traffic cops…

This cyclist needs to learn the highway code. Rule 66 should not be riding two abreast on busy/narrow roads. Shocking behaviour by the cyclist, the van had clearly left enough space and was going to pass wide and slowly. pic.twitter.com/3LsJoSDKHE

— Anon (@Simon47724687) August 22, 2021

 Living up to their online reputation, Surrey Police replied telling the driver to return his licence…

If you think that type of behaviour by the driver is acceptable then you need to return your licence to the DVLA immediately as you’re not of sound mind to drive.
The driver should be charged with assault
A road user owns the lane they are in.
A motorist has no priority. pic.twitter.com/UdA2mkXVfe

— Roads Policing Unit (RPU) – Surrey Police – UK (@SurreyRoadCops) August 22, 2021

It’s the latest act of the Surrey traffic cops sticking up for cyclists on Twitter and challenging trolls. In 2017, they told another motorist to feel free to return his licence, saying he was “too childish to drive” in response to an especially eloquent “F*** the cyclists” tweet.

More recently they slid into the DMs of one angry cyclist-basher to educate them on why you might ride in the middle of the lane.

23 August 2021, 08:07

More BMX success for Bethany Shriever as Olympic champ adds world championship to glittering palmares

GOLD for @bethanyshriever ! 🇬🇧

Olympic Champion and UCI BMX World Champion in the same year 🔥#Papendal2021 pic.twitter.com/lTycrHakeD

— UCI BMX Supercross (@UCI_BMX_SX) August 22, 2021

Team GB’s BMX racing Olympic gold medallist Bethany Shriever added a world championship rainbow jersey to her growing honours list. The rider who worked as a teacher to fund her training in the run up to Tokyo beat home favourites Judy Baauw and Laura Smulers in front of a Dutch crowd in Papendal, the Netherlands yesterday afternoon. Defending champ Alise Willoughby crashed out at the opening turn.

“I’ve been riding consistently and I just wanted to go out there and have a good time, like I did in Tokyo,” Shriever told the BBC. “I went in gate eight, I was relaxed and happy. I had an alright start and just managed to dig in and take the win. Another gold medal — I can’t believe it.”

23 August 2021, 08:07

Tell me you've never used a bike rack without telling me you've never used a bike rack

Are these just intended as an art installation, @MiddlebrookRLP? As cycle parking they are practically useless. Far too close together and far too close to the wall. pic.twitter.com/7pXw40jMCc

— Bicycle-Riding Motorist (@MrHappyCyclist) August 23, 2021

Oh dear… 

23 August 2021, 08:07

Saddleless hero Chad Tavernia racks up more miles without his seatpost

Chad Tavernia no saddle (Image credit: Chad Tavernia/Strava)
Strava) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Chad Tavernia no saddle (Image credit: Chad Tavernia/Strava)
Strava) (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

Could you ride 100 miles out the saddle? Chad Tavernia can, and he’s doing it again to prove it. Chad’s lined up a December date on Zwift to silence the noise once and for all. He was out yesterday on a comparatively short 39.62km spin without his seatpost, but all while still maintaining a 31.1km/h average speed.

In the comments he was asked if no saddle training is part of his regular training programme. Chad replied: “Yea. Obviously riding with no saddle at all is not easy. So therefore I feel it is good training. Forces you to adapt to the situation.”

23 August 2021, 08:07

Ethan Hayter's stellar run continues with victory in Norway

I’m pretty sure the Cycling world should be talking about Ethan Hayter more than it is. That is all.

— Alex Dowsett (@alexdowsett) August 20, 2021

Ethan Hayter followed up his Olympic silver medal in the Madison with two stages and the GC at the Tour of Norway. It takes his road race wins tally to six for the season. Add to that one youth classification, an overall win and an Olympic silver medal and you’ve got quite the season for most, let alone a prospect who only turned 22 last week. One to keep a close eye on… 

23 August 2021, 08:07

Peak cycling out of context

pic.twitter.com/fyGBlhcj5l

— Cycling out of context (@OutOfCycling) August 23, 2021

23 August 2021, 08:07

Ineos Grenadiers' Cameron Wurf shatters course record at Ironman Copenhagen

Congratulations @cameronwurf on a tremendous Ironman performance 🏊🚴🏃

He wins Ironman Copenhagen in a new course record, 7:46:05 ⏱️🔥

📽️ @IRONMANtri pic.twitter.com/4z9DvOZ0gE

— INEOS Grenadiers (@INEOSGrenadiers) August 22, 2021

Obviously unsatisfied by the simplicity of racing your bicycle for a few hours, Ineos Grenadiers pro Cameron Wurf has been racing (and winning) an Ironman Traithlon. That includes: 2.4 mile swim, 112 miles on the bike topped off with a marathon run…Wurf clocked 7:46:05, just shy of a normal 9-5 office shift. 

“I haven’t been in this much pain for a while, but the Danish crowd was amazing, it feels like the world is back to normality after the pandemic,” a shattered Wurf said afterwards.

23 August 2021, 08:07

Pacenti partners with Cornish UCI Continental team Saint Piran

2020 Pacenti Picco 46mm Disc Clincher Wheels 700C - set.jpg
2020 Pacenti Picco 46mm Disc Clincher Wheels 700C - set (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
2020 Pacenti Picco 46mm Disc Clincher Wheels 700C - set.jpg
2020 Pacenti Picco 46mm Disc Clincher Wheels 700C – set (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

Pacenti has agreed a five-year deal to supply wheels to Saint Piran. The Devon-based wheel brand joked they’d have to avoid mentioning the cream teas but are happy to be supplying the UCI Continental team from Cornwall with their hoops for the foreseeable. The Tour of Britain is the next big goal on the team’s radar and will give Pacenti the opportunity to see its wheels being raced against the big boys.

The team’s star rider Steve Lampier took the brand’s Picco wheels for a spin at the Tour Series recently and said: “I ran 60psi last night and they felt amazing, really great wheels.”

“Until recently I would have said that we weren’t ready to support a team like Saint Piran. We wouldn’t want to let a team down, as we love cycling and cycle sport too much to allow ourselves to fail,” Luke Humphreys, the brand’s CEO explained in a refreshingly honest manner. 

“Fortunately, Saint Piran use disc brake bikes, a basket in which we put our development eggs three or four years ago. We are delighted to build wheels for riders to race at such a high level. The feedback received from them so far gives credibility to our years of dedication and hard work. 

“We have always worked on the key principles of building wheels that perform and are durable. We build wheels for riders because we are riders as well and we know what a good wheel feels and looks like. To attract a team like Saint Piran is the ultimate validation of the quality and performance of our product.”

Steve Lampier’s not the only one. Our tester Stu loved them too…check out his 9/10 review for the Pacenti Picco 46mm Disc Clincher Wheels here…

23 August 2021, 08:07

When you open your mouth about cycling

What it’s like in this sector sometimes. pic.twitter.com/NGeLusero4

— London Cycling Campaign (@London_Cycling) August 23, 2021

23 August 2021, 08:07

Near Miss of the Day 627: Close passes over solid white line

Near Miss of the Day 627: Close passes over solid white line

Our regular series featuring close passes from around the country - today it's Thames Valley

23 August 2021, 08:07

Shedgate, the Manchester edition: Planning permission likely to be refused for bike shed – since it would create ‘visual clutter’

Shedgate, the Manchester edition: Planning permission likely to be refused for bike shed – since it would create ‘visual clutter’

Resident says council planner’s response is “Ridiculous” and reflects “A real lack of joined-up thinking”

23 August 2021, 08:07

Lorry driver killed motorbike rider moments after making illegal overtake of cyclist

Lorry driver killed motorbike rider moments after making illegal overtake of cyclist

Drivers were forced to swerve after Lucian-Sorin Todor crossed white lines before fatally injuring motorcyclist

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Dan Alexander
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Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too. Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he’s not working you’ll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he’ll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he’s a bit strange like that.  

16 Comments

16 thoughts on “Surrey traffic cops tell driver spouting Highway Code whataboutery to return licence; Chad Tavernia racks up more saddleless miles; Southeastern angered by “reckless” rider crossing; Road safety main concern for female cyclists + more on the live blog”

  1. hawkinspeter
    August 23, 2021 at 8:41 am
    0

    Well, if women (or others)

    Well, if women (or others) are worried about cycling on the road, they can just wear a helmet can’t they?

    Log In or Register to post comments
    • Captain Badger
      August 23, 2021 at 8:49 am
      0

      hawkinspeter wrote:

      Well, if women (or others) are worried about cycling on the road, they can just wear a helmet can’t they?

      — hawkinspeter

      The agitation and nervousness comes from not paying any tax, I think you’ll find.

      Log In or Register to post comments
      • hawkinspeter
        August 23, 2021 at 8:55 am
        0

        Captain Badger wrote:

        Well, if women (or others) are worried about cycling on the road, they can just wear a helmet can’t they?

        — Captain Badger

        The agitation and nervousness comes from not paying any tax, I think you’ll find.

        — hawkinspeter

        I think that’s just the insecurity from not having a nice big yellow number plate to identify themselves.

        Log In or Register to post comments
  2. Steve K
    August 23, 2021 at 9:18 am
    0

    Why does the level crossing

    Why does the level crossing have pedestrian gates like that?  Shouldn’t the barrier cover both the road and the pavement?

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  3. IanMK
    August 23, 2021 at 12:18 pm
    0

    More educating from Surrey
    More educating from Surrey Roads Police:
    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/motorists-confusion-after-police-release-21373543
    My first reaction (after laughing) was; how do drivers not know the basics? However, the bigger question might be; what are the government doing about getting this info out there?

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    • Hirsute
      August 23, 2021 at 12:37 pm
      0

      Too many of those about who

      Too many of those about who carry on in L3 of a 4 lane section

       

      Not sure why they bothered with the troll in twitter item.

       

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    • wycombewheeler
      August 23, 2021 at 12:37 pm
      0

      IanMK wrote:

      More educating from Surrey Roads Police: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/motorists-confusion-after-police-release-21373543 My first reaction (after laughing) was; how do drivers not know the basics? However, the bigger question might be; what are the government doing about getting this info out there?

      — IanMK

      my first reaction, was wondering why the driver thinks the cyclists in another country need to know the highway code at all.

      second reaction has amazement at the skills of the cyclist getting unclipped when being knocked off and just walking off the bike.

      Log In or Register to post comments
      • Hirsute
        August 23, 2021 at 12:40 pm
        0

        Different story to the

        Different story to the twitter item.

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    • brooksby
      August 23, 2021 at 1:49 pm
      0

      How does twitterer ‘Anon’

      How does twitterer ‘Anon’ know what that van (driver) was intending/going to do?

      Log In or Register to post comments
  4. Surreyrider
    August 23, 2021 at 1:47 pm
    0

    As I’ve said before, if only

    As I’ve said before, if only Surrey Police took action when provided with examples of bad driving. I wish Road CC would take note. 

    Log In or Register to post comments
  5. Cycloid
    August 23, 2021 at 2:16 pm
    0

    Apparently in one survey 98%

    Apparently in one survey 98% of American drvers said they were above average.  (But only 65% of Swedish drivers)

    Log In or Register to post comments
  6. mdavidford
    August 23, 2021 at 3:28 pm
    0

    Quote:

    Saddleless hero

    I know the word’s been somewhat devalued, but I think that might be stretching it to breaking point.

    Log In or Register to post comments
  7. ChrisB200SX
    August 23, 2021 at 4:54 pm
    0

    Road safety the biggest

    Road safety the biggest barrier to women’s cycling.

    It just happens that, generally speaking, women are put off more by the lack of road safety than men.

    Log In or Register to post comments
  8. BigSigh
    August 23, 2021 at 11:30 pm
    0

    I have to be honest, the
    I have to be honest, the discussion in the comments in relation to the near miss at the level crossing is not a good look.

    Really, the argument that the three seconds between their crossing and the train passing through means that they didn’t nearly die is taken from the same book as the driver who close passes but claims it’s ok because they didn’t actually hit you.

    Three seconds might seem like a long time to you when crossing the road in front of a train (it’s really not) but it seems a fuck of a lot quicker sat in the cab. Trains cannot deviate; trains take a lot longer to slow down than any motor vehicle; trains rely on the signals and drivers have to trust that people at level crossings observe and obey the indications.

    The railway is a dangerous place.

    When I cycle to and from work, the behaviour of other road users worries me. When I’m at work, the behaviour of people around the railway truly frightens me.

    Cyclists, we’re not always right and on this one, definitely not.
    I

    Log In or Register to post comments
  9. Bmblbzzz
    August 24, 2021 at 9:52 am
    0

    On the Rule 66, Surrey Police

    On the Rule 66, Surrey Police item: the UK’s Highway Code doesn’t apply in whatever country that is. Those are clearly not UK roads. I’m going to take a wild guess and say possibly Malaysia. Whether this also means Surrey Police shouldn’t be commenting on it, I’ll leave for further discussion.

    Log In or Register to post comments
    • jestriding
      August 24, 2021 at 12:12 pm
      0

      Bmblbzzz wrote:

      On the Rule 66, Surrey Police item: the UK’s Highway Code doesn’t apply in whatever country that is. Those are clearly not UK roads. I’m going to take a wild guess and say possibly Malaysia. Whether this also means Surrey Police shouldn’t be commenting on it, I’ll leave for further discussion.

      — Bmblbzzz

      Singapore 2018.  The driver got 7 weeks jail, a $500 fine and two years loss of licence.  He appealed but lost.

      Rider was fined $2,800 for causing mischief by smashing his mirror and causing obstruction by riding in the middle of the lane rather than the leftmost side.

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Latest Comments

quiff 39 minutes ago

As I think that poster liked to remind us, explosion in the hi-viz aisle of Decathlon is also a big risk for cyclists.

in: “Was one of them bad driving?” Newspaper criticised for publishing “8 dangerous cycling mistakes that put people in hospital”; Punchy finale without fans at wildfire-affected Tour de France + more on the live blog
quiff 49 minutes ago

@IanGlasgow indeed - my point was really just in answer to the reviewer's apparent surprise they didn't add discs - but the Kinetic kits show it actually requires quite a lot of change.

in: Brompton P Line
chrisonabike 1 hour ago

...And another one turning up on a bicycle to another former poster's soirée and then being hurt by his reaction?

in: “Was one of them bad driving?” Newspaper criticised for publishing “8 dangerous cycling mistakes that put people in hospital”; Punchy finale without fans at wildfire-affected Tour de France + more on the live blog
chrisonabike 1 hour ago

8 dangerous mistakes that put riders in A&E - was one going on a ride with former(?) poster wheelywheely... and being run over on the pavement by a mob of cyclists riding furiously through a red light on the wrong side of the road ... and then having wheely's wheelchair fall on you?

in: “Was one of them bad driving?” Newspaper criticised for publishing “8 dangerous cycling mistakes that put people in hospital”; Punchy finale without fans at wildfire-affected Tour de France + more on the live blog
Rendel Harris 2 hours ago

@ktache Just came here to say that, heard them too (watching on delay after work). Sounds a sensible approach and hopefully will stop the idiots, though there will doubtless always be some.

in: “Don’t run next to the riders, even if you’re a banana,” Tour de France warns after fancy dress fan almost disrupts breakaway (and gets smacked in the head for his troubles)
Rendel Harris 2 hours ago

@MaxiMinimalist Please don't dirty these pages up with cut and paste from AI, if your comment wasn't worth giving your own thought and effort to why is it worth inflicting it on anyone else? In this case, as MDF notes, it doesn't even answer the question you asked, let alone have anything to do with the article. One wonders if this is why your comments are so often absurdly phrased, tortuous word salads with only tangential relationships to the matter under discussion, do you just ask AI to write them for you? If so, please stop it.

in: Castelli’s new prototype crash protection system weighs the same as two energy gels, and could soon be used on the WorldTour
IanGlasgow 2 hours ago

@GravelIsNothingNew Reporting poor driving in Scotland is much more difficult than in England. I've done it three times in more than a decade. It involves making a statement at a police station or arranging for them to visit you at home to take a statement. Then the chances of action being taken are almost nil. Apparently Scots law prevents them acting on an online report and an uploaded video and there appears to be no interest among Holyrood MSPs in changing that.

in: Cyclists are “greedy” for taking up more space than pedestrians, claims leading architect who feels “guilty” when riding bike
IanGlasgow 2 hours ago

@chrisonabike Edinburgh and Bristol both strike me as cities where cycling is popular DESPITE the geography and lack of infra. I grew up in Edinburgh, but having lived and worked in York, Cambridge and now Glasgow I'm always surprised how many people cycle despite the hills and lack of adequate infrastructure. My daughter lived in Bristol for a few years and it struck me that cycling there was part of the counter-culture, and - again - popular despite (incredibly steep) hills and an almost total absence of cycling infrastructure. Glasgow has started from a much lower base than York, Edinburgh, Cambridge or Bristol but Glasgow City Council are determined to press ahead with a network and some of the infra they've built is really very good and doing a great job of encouraging cycling. Unfortunately, some is a great deal less good and the scale of the proposed network has been cut considerably.

in: Cyclists are “greedy” for taking up more space than pedestrians, claims leading architect who feels “guilty” when riding bike
IanGlasgow 3 hours ago

@quiff For those who want a spec that Brompton don't make - disc, brakes, fatter tyres, bigger wheels (18" is an option), belt drive, Shimano or Rohloff hub gears, etc. - Kinetics offer pretty much anything. But as it involves replacing the rear triangle (and forks for most options) it makes more sense to start with a basic-spec C-line (or the even more basic A-line) as a donor bike.

in: Brompton P Line
OldRidgeback 3 hours ago

So the driver who left 1.5cm distance between my bar ends and his car on Saturday afternoon instead of 1.5m wasn't driving dangerously?

in: “Was one of them bad driving?” Newspaper criticised for publishing “8 dangerous cycling mistakes that put people in hospital”; Punchy finale without fans at wildfire-affected Tour de France + more on the live blog

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