‘Cyclists dismount’ evolves… now it’s just NO CYCLISTS at all!; How do you solve a problem like murder strips?; Tour de France countdown; ‘Road rage-reducing tips’ miss out cycling again; Strava used to spy on Israeli military + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
“Get rid, they encourage offending”: How do you solve a problem like murder strips?
Ah, the murder strip. That thin line of paint on the road passing as infrastructure, exposing cyclists who dare to use them to drains, debris and – oh wait – close passing motorists, confident that they were in their lane and you were in yours, ‘so it really doesn’t matter if I brushed your shoulder, does it?’
As police officer and driver behaviour specialist Mark Hodson pointed out on Twitter yesterday, this year’s changes to the Highway Code (we’re legally obligated to mention them every four days, before you start complaining) have made murder strips more relevant than ever.
We never ran #OpClosePass where there was a cycle lane as it effectively gave offenders a “faux defence” of “well if it’s dangerous, why is it designed like that?” which in light of the HC updates earlier this year is even more relevant than ever. #Murderstrips as they are more pic.twitter.com/uT2gK9USIQ
— Mark Hodson (@markandcharlie) June 20, 2022
So, what should we do about them? Here’s what Hodson, one of the two officers who devised West Midlands Police’s renowned close pass operation, thinks:
We never ran Operation Close Pass where there was a cycle lane as it effectively gave offenders a “faux defence” of “well if it’s dangerous, why is it designed like that?”, which in light of the HC updates earlier this year is even more relevant than ever.
Murder strips, as they are more popularly known, are available almost everywhere in the UK for the driver who wants an excuse for endangering a vulnerable road user, albeit not a legitimate one given the HC (and previous updates too), but can be used to muddy the waters of any potential prosecution.
So what to do about them…
Well there are three options for this sort of infrastructure which now has no other purpose apart from potentially endangering cyclists.
Option one – remove them completely. This changes driver behaviour and as in other driving scenarios the lack of “magic paint” actually improves behaviours as drivers start to think about what they should be doing rather than depending on lane markings for guidance.
Second – have a second white line, solid this time and 1.5 metres plus away from the edge of the cycle lane denoting the edge of the carriageway for motor vehicles when the cycle lane is occupied, increased accordingly for speed limits over 30mph.
Third – we could have dedicated separate infrastructure that separates road users, affording relative safety for cyclists & other vulnerable road users using it.
Option two would need a further HC change; option three is the best but given the cost and time implications would take generations at the rate we are currently installing…
Leaving option one… get rid, they encourage offending.
Best advice for cyclists, if one is present, ride just to the offside of them, firstly placing you the ideal distance from the kerb for cycling avoiding drain covers, debris and providing some room to work with if you encounter other hazards which you must avoid.
This also removes the faux defence of “they were in their lane, I was in mine, what’s the issue?”
Advice for drivers… Whenever you encounter a cyclist in whatever situation, just give at least 1.5 metres of room, further if you are travelling at over 30mph & show consideration. It’s not hard, no need for whataboutery at all, as you will find it won’t help you in a court of law.
So, there we are, time to abolish murder strips – it will help keep cyclists safer by changing behaviours and save some drivers points on their licence as well, as they start thinking about their driving rather than relying on paint to do their thinking for them.
What do you think? Do you agree with Hodson that abolishing painted cycle lanes – even before proper, segregated infrastructure can be introduced – would help change motorists’ behaviour and potentially keep cyclists safe on the roads?
Ten days to the Tour…
10 days till the Tour de France.
Just sayin’. 🇫🇷
— Daniel Lloyd (@daniellloyd1) June 21, 2022
It’s ten days to the TOUR DE FRANCE. TEN DAYS, PEOPLE. Sorry for shouting but I’M NOT READY YET 😱 #TourdeFrance #TDF2022 pic.twitter.com/X8pTxQHuX7
— Katy M (@writebikerepeat) June 21, 2022
I think it’s safe to say I’m getting just a bit excited for next Friday’s grand depart in Copenhagen.
Just need to get hold of my £15 official preview magazine now…
‘No cyclists'… were involved in the design of this infrastructure
Well, that’s one way of going about it…
This rather questionable road sign, which seems to indicate (bluntly, I may add) that work is currently being carried out on the bike lane further up the road, was spotted in Wimborne, Dorset this week.
One member of a local active travel Facebook group reckoned that the sign was missing a second part, and kindly offered a few suggestions:
Although the road.cc reader who sent the photo to us described it as ‘nonsense’ and a ‘non story’, we do love a tangential angle round here; and it of course got us thinking about other unhelpful signs aimed at deterring cycling, and if this one may in fact top the lot.
We only have to go back to late May of this year to find the last big story on the live blog that involved a controversial anti-cycling message: this incorrectly spelled yet space-saving ‘NO BYCLES’ beauty. We never did find out whether this was the work of someone in authority or not, but this corker definitely was…
In April, this sign in Oxford University Parks was slammed as “ridiculous and petty”; although according to a number of Oxford cyclists, the park’s cycling ban isn’t actually problematic day-to-day.
For a more commonly used classic there’s always the ‘no no cycling’ sign, which technically doesn’t make sense because the red circle already tells us not to do something…
“Need a hand?” Ineos recce the cobbles
I mentioned earlier that the Tour de France gets under way in 10 days, which means only one thing (in my mind anyway) – it’s 15 days until the cobbled stage!
Yep, stage five of the Tour, from Lille to Arenberg Porte du Hainaut will take in 11 sectors, totalling 18.4 kilometres, of the bone-juddering farm tracks traditionally associated with April’s Hell of the North, Paris-Roubaix.
> Tour de France 2022 preview: everything you need to know about every stage of this year’s race
Whatever you think of the place of cobbles in the Tour de France, credit must go to Les Amis de Paris-Roubaix, who work hard to keep those famous old roads in pristine (read, horrifying) condition for the peloton, and who were rudely interrupted by a group of Ineos riders on a pre-Tour recce yesterday…
Tour de Suisse yesterday, TDF recon today. Stopped to give these boys a hand, not long to go now 🤣 pic.twitter.com/qfnKgXZFRZ
— Geraint Thomas (@GeraintThomas86) June 20, 2022
Perhaps 2018 Tour winner, and former cobbled classics contender, Geraint Thomas – installed as the hot favourite after his Tour de Suisse win last week (what Slovenian riders?) – picked up some extra insider info from those laying the pavé before a potentially decisive GC day for the Welshman and his team.
Though judging by their indifferent reaction to the riders getting in the way of their work, maybe not…
Strava used to spy on Israeli military – by setting up fake segments in army bases and intelligence agencies
So it turns out that Strava isn’t just for showing off to your mates, creating weird art on maps, or ogling Mathieu van der Poel’s training data – the fitness app has also been used for espionage.
The Guardian has reported that an anonymous Strava user, who according to their profile hails from Boston, Massachusetts, had set up a number of fake segments across various military establishments in Israel, including those belonging to the country’s intelligence agencies and highly secure bases assumed to be linked with Israel’s nuclear programme.
The user – whose affiliation has yet to be uncovered – could then keep tabs on members of the Israeli military, tracking their movements as they exercised in secret bases in Israel and around the world.
The fake segment approach allowed the spies to bypass Strava’s privacy settings – while profiles can be made available only to followers, unless users set each individual activity to be actively secured, their profile picture, first name and initial will appear on segments they have covered.
> Strava’s new Edit Map Visibility provides greater privacy control
The operation was uncovered by the Israeli open-source intelligence outfit FakeReporter.
“We contacted the Israeli security forces as soon as we became aware of this security breach,” the group’s executive director, Achiya Schatz, told the Guardian.
“After receiving approval from the security forces to proceed, FakeReporter contacted Strava, and they formed a senior team to address the issue.”
In a statement, Strava said: “We take matters of privacy very seriously and have been made aware by an Israeli group, FakeReporter, of a segment issue regarding a specific user account and have taken the necessary steps to remedy this situation.
“We provide readily accessible information regarding how information is shared on Strava, and give every athlete the ability to make their own privacy selections. For more information on all of our privacy controls, please visit our privacy centre as we recommend that all athletes take the time to ensure their selections in Strava represent their intended experience.”
Spend 630 quid on a new derailleur cage... or just leave a bit earlier
or set off earlier https://t.co/f4BLfcAvwb
— Jase (@Terrahawk) June 21, 2022
We do like the idea of commuter cyclists weighing up the choice between investing in a new CeramicSpeed OSPW Aero or just winding their alarm back a bit – 2.5 seconds if the journey to work is 25km and up to 7.2 seconds if it’s 40km, according to CeramicSpeed’s wind tunnel calculations on how much time and sweet wattz the new Aero version of its oversized pulley wheel system will save you.
Of course this product is aimed at a totally different kind of cyclist with more money than sense really… or you could just turn professional, and you might get one for free. You can read more about the OSPW Aero in our full story over here.
Jumbo-Visma announces strong Tour de France squad
🇫🇷 #TDF2022
From 🇩🇰 to 🇫🇷!
Our team for the upcoming Tour de France⤵️ pic.twitter.com/7ekdS2w0II— Team Jumbo-Visma cycling (@JumboVismaRoad) June 21, 2022
No Rohan Dennis in Jumbo-Visma’s line-up for the Tour, but the Dutch squad are still sending a team of big hitters to France in support of their yellow and green aiming trident, Roglič, Vingegaard and Van Aert.
And if having arguably the strongest team at the Tour doesn’t strike fear into the heart of Tadej Pogačar and his fellow UAE Team Emirates riders, perhaps Jumbo-Visma’s special artsy Tour jerseys (which I’d genuinely forgotten all about until this announcement) will bamboozle them on long, hot days in the Alps…
I can see it now: ‘How did you get dropped on the Galibier, Tadej?’ ‘Err, I was daydreaming about Vermeer and Rembrandt…’
"Expert tips to avoid road rage" during rail strikes have a glaring omission
As we have ‘road’ in our name, we get quite a few generic motoring and car industry press releases as well as cycling ones land in our inbox – and while this one is actually of interest to us, it’s probably not for the reasons the PR person imagined.
“With a number of train strikes taking place this week, traffic on UK roads will inevitably surge. But how can stay on top of our road rage and manage our frustration during delays this week?” reads the first paragraph from the release about a new Compare the Market study.
The suggestions? We’re told to maintain concentration, make sure we’re well-rested (I’ll assume it’s excusable to drive while frothing with anger if I have a bad night’s sleep then), take a moment to think before we react and “be forgiving and learn to let go.”
Other than the obvious “just stop being a buffoon and don’t get so angry over pointless things” or “leave earlier”, we can’t help but notice a glaring two-wheeled omission from these road rage-reducing tips…
(For clarity we mean cycling, not buying the new road.cc x Stolen Goat kit – but if you want to buy it that would be great, so do that here)
“We need to change the infrastructure”: Oxford councillor calls for restrictions on HGVs in city centre after delivery van almost reverses into her
Restrictions need to be placed on delivery vans and HGVs on high street #oxford during the day to protect #vulnerable #roadusers who are #cycling I am full of tears and shaken – I am a mother trying to get around with a baby on my #bike @cycloxoxford @AndrewGant3 @lizleffman pic.twitter.com/02REEomHtV
— Cllr Katherine S Miles 🔶🇺🇦 (@katherinesmiles) June 21, 2022
An Oxford city councillor has called for better active travel infrastructure in the city after a van almost reversed into her while she was cycling with her child.
Katherine Miles, a Lib Dem councillor for the Summertown ward, says that restrictions should be placed on HGVs and delivery vans on Oxford’s High Street, where the incident took place this morning.
“Just had a van reverse into me,” the clearly distressed councillor said in a video posted on Twitter earlier today.
“It didn’t hit me, I had to shout on High Street. I was in the traffic and they just reversed back… in a queue of traffic. They clearly didn’t look, and I had to shout.
“And I’m here with my baby and my bike. We just need to change the infrastructure.”
In March, Liberal Democrat MP for Oxford West and Abingdon Layla Moran called on the government to commit to keeping cyclists safe on the city’s roads, after two women were killed while riding their bikes earlier this year, both in incidents involving large vehicles.
On 8 February Ellen Moilanen, a university worker in her 40s, was killed when she was struck by a lorry driver while cycling on the A4165 near Oxford Parkway station, a busy commuter route between Kidlington and Oxford.
Less than a month later, on 1 March Dr Ling Felce died in a collision involving a lorry at the notorious roundabout junction of St Clement’s Street and The Plain.
Cycling live tweeters, be warned…
There is a scourge which is sweeping the world (probably), but is most prominent in cycling writing and specifically when people are Tweeting about cycling and quite frankly I’ve had enough of it.
It involves verbs and tenses.
— Cillian Kelly (@irishpeloton) June 21, 2022
An example:
“This is an interesting breakaway group. So who wins from this group?”
Nobody. Fucking nobody ‘wins’ from this group because they’re not at the finish yet. Because the finish line is in the FUTURE!
— Cillian Kelly (@irishpeloton) June 21, 2022
Please… it has to stop.
Who WILL WIN from this group?
OR
Who is GOING TO WIN from this group?
Please…
…
I haven’t eaten any carbs for a while.
— Cillian Kelly (@irishpeloton) June 21, 2022
You seem (dare I say it) tense.
— Vincent van Gogogoch (@GogogochV) June 21, 2022
Cillian does have a (pedantic) point.
Anyway, Pogačar, Roglič, Vingegaard, or Thomas – who wins the Tour de France?
“Harder than any video game”: Leith Walk’s zig-zag cycle lane compared to… 1980s arcade game
In one of the more bizarre crossovers we’ve come across recently, video game website Kotaku has published some decent in-depth analysis of Edinburgh’s chaotic new zig-zag cycle lane on Leith Walk (also covered on yesterday’s blog), which the site compared to 1980s arcade game Paperboy…
According to Wikipedia – I’m much too young to remember myself – Paperboy was originally released in 1985 and saw players deliver a fictional newspaper called The Daily Sun (the horror, I know), on their bike along a suburban street.
Sounds great – and by the looks of things, a whole lot easier to navigate than Leith Walk…
Thanks to road.cc reader Matthew for sending us the article!
“That was so impressive”: Lucinda Brand wins Tour de Suisse stage and GC in thrilling finale
Lucinda Brand followed up Trek-Segafredo teammate Lizzie Deignan’s win at the inaugural Tour de Suisse last year, by taking the race’s second edition after a dramatic final mountain stage.
Winner of stage 4 and the GC! #TourdeSuisseWomen @lucinda_brand @TrekSegafredo @PrimeoEnergie pic.twitter.com/nRnNeIGPML
— Tour de Suisse (@tds) June 21, 2022
Going into today four seconds down on Team BikeExchange-Jayco’s Kristen Faulkner, Brand – who also won the opening stage on Saturday before Faulkner’s commanding time trial victory – attacked on the final descent with just under 20km to go after strong work from Trek’s world champion, and domestique deluxe, Elisa Balsamo.
Brand, who took valuable bonus seconds at the foot of the category one climb to the summit finish in Lantsch, was joined by Trek’s mountain bike and cyclocross star Jolanda Neff – riding for the Swiss national team – but, after struggling to hang onto Neff on the descent, soon dispatched the 29-year-old with 5.5 kilometres to go.
Knowing that she had to beat Brand to the line to take the GC, Faulkner made her own move with three kilometres left, dropping Pauliena Rooijakkers and powering across the 25 second gap to Brand.
The hunter can see the prey!
Faulkner has to beat Brand at the finish to win, catching isn’t enough#TourdeSuisseWomen pic.twitter.com/w1KUyEdwZz
— Mathew Mitchell (@MatMitchell30) June 21, 2022
In an epic head-to-head tussle played out in driving rain, the American Faulkner finally caught Brand just before the final kilometre, setting up a dramatic do-or-die sprint for the overall title.
It wasn’t to be, unfortunately, as Faulkner slid out on a corner during the tight and technical finale, allowing Brand – who looked in pole position to take the sprint in any case – to savour the third stage race win of her career.
Cycling, eh? Bloody hell.
I’ll allow you to translate that one…
Einmal gerissen, dann wirds teuer
Carbon Rahmen 🤝 Kondom
— Lena Kolumna (@reathina) June 21, 2022
“The world would be better place without these murder strips” (plus ‘No Cycling’… during the Olympics)
Lots of discussion in the comments today about murder strips (Belgium’s Word of the Year 2018, for anyone asking) and questionable ‘no cycling’ signs.
Steve K wrote that “Advisory lanes should go, and mandatory ones only remain if they are wide enough not to encourage close passing”, while the little onion argued that “the world would be a better place without these murder strips. Burn them!”
BalladOfStruth said: “A lot of them… are a ‘worst of both worlds’ sort of situation. If a cyclist uses advisory cycle lanes, they are actually at an increased risk of injury compared to there being no lane there (by as much as 34 percent according to some studies).
“However, if there is a lane there and a driver observes a cyclist riding next to it instead of in it, we get the sort of intentional, bullying behaviour we saw in NMOTD 787. When presented with something like the lane pictured below, the cyclist can’t win.
“No infra is better than bad infra.”
“I ride a recumbent handcycle, that’s three wheels to keep within the painted lane,” says handcyclist.
“If I’m fully in the lane the nearside rear is always just inches off the kerb in all the detritus hitting every sunken drain and other obstacle so I tend to ride with my front wheel outside the line and put up with the occasional close pass.
“So actually, I don’t ride in them much at all and tend to avoid them like the plague! Now when they’re wider with decent segregation and wands I put up with the discomfort of crashing my nearside wheel into sunken drains. Absolutely paint is not infrastructure.”
Mungecrundle sent us their local murder strip, which even by the standards of the genre, is particularly shocking:
They wrote: “Here’s my personal piece of cycle infrastructure which seems designed for the sole purpose of getting me close passed. If I ride so as to avoid going over the gratings, my bar end is actually across the line.
“Officially, just down the road at the pedestrian crossing, I am supposed to hop off the road, cycle on the pavement and around the back of any pedestrians waiting to cross then re-join the road. There’s stupid little arrows and cycle glyphs all over the pavement.
“It would be far better to simply have these nonsense lanes removed. Even preferable to widen the footway and make it shared use.”
Meanwhile, on the subject of dodgy ‘no cyclists/cycle/bycles’ signs, mark1a sent us this perfect bit of visual juxtaposition, writing “I remember at the time thinking ‘there goes half our medals then’”…
21 June 2022, 08:30
21 June 2022, 08:30
21 June 2022, 08:30
Another new obstacle course - I mean, cycle lane...
Cycling group slams "embarrassing" new cycle lane full of dangerous obstacles... including trees, lampposts and a speed camera
Bike Worcester's chairman said the council should "hang its head in shame" over the "total waste" of money, time and effort
Help us to bring you the best cycling content
If you’ve enjoyed this article, then please consider subscribing to road.cc from as little as £1.99. Our mission is to bring you all the news that’s relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. Your subscription will help us to do more.
58 Comments
Read more...
Read more...
Read more...
Latest Comments
I think they're trolling me now - the story has been updated with this pic
@quiff Fair point (that was a long way back up thread!). Although as well as saying that she thought she would be safe because she was on a crossing, that comment also said "she was carelessly crossing on a red man", which is straying perilously close to introducing 'jaywalking' to the discussion.
@mdavidford yes, of course the signals are advisory etc - but I think this tangent started in reference to the victim's reported comment "I was on a crossing. I thought it was safe, you just don't expect it".
I think anyone 'looking for a serious relationship' with Torstein Træen is going to be out of luck anyway - he looks pretty attached to that lion.
Just checked Continentals own data here: https://www.continental-tires.com/tire-knowledge/tire-rim-combinations-etrto-standards/#text-f52364d480) As expected, a 28mm tire only becomes 28.8mm wide on a 21mm rim.
You know the article has gone live when Surreyrider arrives to explain why it shouldn't be on road.cc.
"ETRTO requires that 28mm (stated) tyres should measure 28mm on a 19mm internal rim width, and 30mm (stated) tyres should measure 30mm on a 21mm internal rim width. If you take these requirements to real life, you will find that the casing width on a 28mm tyre can be close to, if not identical to, a 30mm tyre of the same make/model." This sounds like BS to me. The thickest part of the tyre is not at the bead, but more than halfway up the side of the tyre. Moving the bead 2 mm (or, 1 mm each side) should move the thickest part of the tyre less than 1 mm (0.5 mm each side). So a 30mm tyre would be at least 1mm wider before installation than a 28mm tire, probably more.
In any case, though, the signalling is entirely advisory for the pedestrians, and regardless of whether or not they have a green light there is a responsibility on other road users to take due care for their safety, just as there would be if they were crossing at any other part of the road where there was no crossing.
@ROOTminus1 The BBC video doesn't show the moment the pedestrians started crossing, but at the start of the video (below) it's on red when they are halfway across, and a car has just passed through. Not conclusive, but seems likely they crossed on red. Obviously doesn't absolve the scrote on the scoot, who absconded.
@HoarseMann RE: the pedestrian, a still image isn't conclusive in this circumstance as pedestrians don't get a yellow indication. It is perfectly reasonable that they began crossing on a green man, and the incident occurred in the period when a red light is displayed at all points, to ensure no road traffic begins moving and peds in motion can complete their transit, and new peds should not begin to cross. Similarly, the peds are equally plausible to have moved into the junction on a red, just as much as the convicted e-scooter rider. Though if both parties had equally disobeyed the signalling, the rider is still more at fault for being present on an illegal vehicle.
58 thoughts on “‘Cyclists dismount’ evolves… now it’s just NO CYCLISTS at all!; How do you solve a problem like murder strips?; Tour de France countdown; ‘Road rage-reducing tips’ miss out cycling again; Strava used to spy on Israeli military + more on the live blog”
The world would be a better
The world would be a better place without these murderstrips. Burn them!
Yeah, a lot of them – such as
Yeah, a lot of them – such as the ones pictured above – are a “worst of both worlds” sort of situation. If a cyclist uses advisory cycle lanes, they are actually at an increased risk of injury compared to there being no lane there (by as much as 34% according to some studies). However, if there is a lane there and a driver observes a cyclist riding next to it instead of in it, we get the sort of intentional, bullying behaviour we saw in NMOTD 787. When presented with something like the lane pictured above, the cyclist can’t win.
No infra is better than bad infra.
Advisory lanes should go, and
Advisory lanes should go, and mandatory ones only remain if they are wide enough not to encourage close passing.
I can’t think of any
I can’t think of any mandatory ones wide enough for that. Not round my area of Reading / Earley at least
we have a great mandatory murder strip nearby, that’s not only narrow it runs alongside parked cars for that double danger!
That’s a fair point.
That’s a fair point.
Here’s my personal piece of
Here’s my personal piece of cycle infrastructure which seems designed for the sole purpose of getting me close passed. If I ride so as to avoid going over the gratings, my bar end is actually across the line.
Officially, just down the road at the pedestrian crossing, I am supposed to hop off the road, cycle on the pavement and around the back of any pedestrians waiting to cross then rejoin the road. There’s stupid little arrows and cycle glyphs all over the pavement.
There’s a NMOTD coming up featuring this very section and a learner driver under professional instruction…
It would be far better to simply have these nonsense lanes removed. Even preferable to widen the footway and make it shared use.
At the pedestrian crossing.
At the pedestrian crossing.
And rejoining the road.
And rejoining the road.
People got paid to; design, approve, install and maintain this utter crap, with my fecking taxes!
I think it’s more nuanced
I think it’s more nuanced than all painted cycle lanes are bad. It very much depends on the road, traffic density & the width of the lane that’s been provided.
At least Mark has finally confirmed something we posited recently, in that the police simply wont pursue close passes that involve cycle lanes.
It’s not that police don’t
It’s not that police don’t pursue, rather it’s patchy (at best) in response to reported incidents, but also – as Mark was stating – for a targeted operation, the ‘magic paint’ defence is too great a risk for the cost of the operation.
Although an operation might be an opportunity to influence the judicial understanding that space is still required, it is a risk that a high-profile operation might end up undermining individual prosecutions if there is a swathe of PCN cancellations in court.
Apart from some temporary
Apart from some temporary “visual narrowing” I’m now mostly against, unless they have some pretty substantial “protection”. (But that then can be a hazard to cyclists and tends to be removed “because cars are hitting it”). When you add the fact that advisory cycle lanes are as useful as shouting in space and there are loopholes allowing people to park in some mandatory ones (assuming there’s any enforcement at all)…
Traffic volume and speed is sort of the whole point – that’ll always be a concern where there’s a UK cycle lane. After all if you’ve low speeds and very few cars then a road is “dutch infra”!
Option 4 spend the money on a
Option 4 spend the money on a public education campaign and then get the police and courts to enforce the law against any offenders?
I think the point is that
I think the point is that there is no explicit law underwriting the 1.5m rule. So the test is a reasonable and competent driver (or some similar wording). Mr Loophole argues that staying in the designated lane is the action of a reasonable and competent driver – especially when you consider the mini-murder strips where you get to annoy motorists by scraping past their door and plopping yourself in the ASL – if the motorists have left any space. How come cyclists can squeeze past cars if cars can’t squeeze past cycles? Bamboozled magistrates cave – Mr Loophole’s jobs a good ‘un.
I think the point is that
I think the point is that there is no explicit law underwriting the 1.5m rule
However, there are explicit laws about driving uninsured in vehicles with no MOT for years, or driving SORN-ed vehicles on the road (or other untaxed vehicles), or going through traffic lights at red etc. Those laws aren’t enforced either, even when there is impeccable evidence- at least not in Lancashire. The problem is the police
I agree with the education
I agree with the education route…and removing. Govt should have been educating the public on new Highway Code rules for cyclists and other vulnerable road users like the publuic informtion films of the 70’s and 80’s. I keep seeing articles in newspapers where drivers are moaning about making passes of cyclists at less than 4 feet. This is a minimum at 30mph and 1.5m is nearer 5ft than 4ft. Why not make it a 2m passing rule and as a guide, all vehicles as a minimum requirement should have ALL wheels over the central line of a road when passing. This needs ramming home via tv information. There also needs to be a far more consistent approach taken by the police who seem to pick and choose the cases to prosecute arbitrarily. the govt could also give grants for cyclists to use to buy bike cameras then all motorists would know they are being filmed by pretty much any cyclist.
Ryan Mallon wrote:
Arguably even illegal, in that it seems not to comply with Safety at Street Works and Road Works.
Nor, without a TRO, would it have any enforcement validity.
Can Road.cc approach Dorset Council for a comment?
I haven’t been hurt doing
I haven’t been hurt doing this (yet) or had any grossly negative consequences (yet) but my approach lately has been to stay in primary all the time, every time, unless on singletrack lanes with oncoming traffic, or of course when filtering or using an available and rideable mandatory cycle lane.
My findings so far:
– Most drivers are completely unable to overtake unless the opposite lane is clear (there physically is no room unless they knocked me off, in which case they’d be riding over me and then there would definitely be no room…)
– When they do overtake, while some tend to straddle the central line and get a tiny bit too close for my comfort, the majority will move over to the next lane
– While I’ve had the odd scream of “middle of the road” etc. and the isolated enraged idiot pulling over or brake checking, it’s a compromise I’ll willingly make to stop the rest of the close passes.
Yes, yes, tempting fate etc. I shall update my findings shortly but so far it seems to be working!
I’d recommend you also make
I’d recommend you also make sure there’s never enough room for someone to undertake you. It’s been done to me at a busy crossroads.
Also featured on a nmotd with
Also featured on a nmotd with a taxi driver !
I used to, when just starting
I used to, when just starting off commuting by bike as an adult, veer to the right of the lane when indicating and ready to turn right. That was prime impatient undertaking territory. I have since stopped that and essentially lord over the whole lane until I am clear to turn.
Does ‘No cyclists’ mean you
Does ‘No cyclists’ mean you can cycle down there if you’re just a person on a bike, rather than a Cyclist?
mdavidford wrote:
Pretty sure it’s just advisory specific to the “cycle lane” and ultimately a pointless sign. It’s not a motorway therefore cyclists can proceed.
I think “No cyclists” means
I think “No cyclists” means what it says and vice versa.
Doesn’t matter if you are driving a car or walking, if you consider yourself to be a cyclist you can’t go that way.
Chris wrote:
I think it’s a misspelled call for empathy – “know cyclists”
Totally agree with Hodson.
Totally agree with Hodson. However:
If you do this you also get more dangerous overtakes and abuse. So you cannot win, they have to be removed as driver education is failing and enforcement is woeful. Paint is not infrastructure.
I ride a recumbent handcycle,
I ride a recumbent handcycle, that’s 3 wheels to keep within the painted lane. If I’m fully in the lane the nearside rear is always just inches off the kerb in all the detritus hitting every sunken drain and other obstacle so I tend to ride with my front wheel outside the line and put up with the occasional close pass.
So actually, I don’t ride in them much at all and tend to avoid them like the plague!
Now when they’re wider with decent segregation and wands I put up with the discomfort of crashing my nearside wheel into sunken drains. Aboslutely paint is not infrastructure.
Quote:
wat’s rong with the grammer?
Nuffink, she’s just well old
Nuffink, she’s just well old
Sriracha wrote:
The comma between ‘anti-cycling message’ and ‘this grammatically incorrect’ should be a dash or a colon.
mdavidford wrote:
Colon, please: dashes are slapdash.
Nobicles…associated with
Nobicles…associated with riding in very low temperatures.
Regarding “no cyclists/cycles
Regarding “no cyclists/cycles/bycles”, looking back 10 years ago to 2012, the Olympic Games came to town as a host for the sailing events. The local council, with great excitement, closed off much of the town centre for a month, and encouraged locals & visitors to use active travel & public transport wherever possible. A lot of the cycling infrastructure didn’t come into the area until after the games, using the legacy funding, poor then and much improved now.
Found this photo I took at the time (cycling used to be prohibited on the seafront).
I remember at the time thinking “there goes half our medals then”
In 2012 I was quite seriously
In 2012 I was quite seriously ill, much too weak to cycle down to Box Hill to see the road race, but having cycled around that area since I was a teenager I was determined to see it there; I planned to shove the bike on the train and get within a few miles so I could ride over to the course. Lo and behold, when I looked up the trains, “Bicycles are not permitted on any service calling at an Olympic venue during the period of the Games.” Hey ho, no road race for me!
Quote:
I think it would be more accurate to say ‘in order to avoid the cyclist waiting for a few seconds’. The drivers coming the other way were simply carrying on in their own lane – hard to argue that the cyclist should have pulled across into it regardless. Pausing and waiting for a gap may have been a better option.
mdavidford wrote:
I think it would be more accurate to say ‘in order to avoid the cyclist waiting for a few seconds’. The drivers coming the other way were simply carrying on in their own lane – hard to argue that the cyclist should have pulled across into it regardless. Pausing and waiting for a gap may have been a better option.
I agree on the first part of that clip that the cyclists should have waited rather than done in the door zone. However, later in the same clip, the drivers should have given way to the cyclist.
As someone said in the
As someone said in the comments, it’s not really nice cycling, but mostly examples of submissive and evasive riding done to avoid bad drivers.
I am slightly worried that he’s got himself a bicycle and is going to do some videos on how to cycle. I hope he reads Cyclecraft as well as the highway code. Maybe gets some Bikeability training and does some group rides with a club before educating us all!
some of the riding was
some of the riding was questionable imo, clip 6, definitely dont pull over on a junction like that, clip err 6a I guess depends how long this section of roadworks is,Id have maybe chosen to have stopped somewhere that wasnt that overgrown.
clip 7, ok not ideal I know why they slow because you dont want to getting near the truck, but not sure who they are waving at as no-ones helping them out on that road, Id have been more central positioned I think.
clip 8 isnt the car jumping a light turning red…
clip 10, no no no dont do that kind of stop there, we cant tell if they shoulder checked but whats a following vehicle going to do to you there if you stop like that ? and wtf is that van driver doing, using the force to drive?.
clip 11, London innit 🙁 plus doesnt that cyclist who almost gets squished then jump the light as people cross.
clip 12, I dont understand that crossing, why is there fencing ? how do people cross there normally ?
Yeah, they’re not shining
Yeah, they’re not shining examples of perfect cycling technique at all. I suspect the main criteria for ‘nice cycling’ is just keep out of everyone elses way and don’t grumble when you’re put at risk.
Clip 7 looked awful, riding in the door zone with oncoming traffic. I think the hand up was to ask drivers to stop and let them through, but did seem a bit pointless, as only one got a thumbs up for giving way at the parked lorry. Some people are happy riding like that and willing to chance it, which is up to them, they’re only really putting themself in the firing line and it’s not illegal. But I wouldn’t show it as a good example. I would have been away from the parked cars and centrally positioned when priority was in my favour. I might even chance the pavement if it was a commute and I was faced with that volume of unrelenting oncoming traffic every day.
and are we going to tackle
and are we going to tackle the overall theme of the video ? “Motorists like any other road user are never going to act perfectly so expect poor emerges to happen and be ready for them”
because I know from cycling I have to ride perfectly, firstly to stay safe on the road, because any lapse in my “perfect” concentration puts me in danger, if I miss hitting my marks perfectly at pinch points or on road positioning, at junctions, roundabouts, traffic lights, things can get bad very quickly.
secondly any perceived not riding perfectly by motorists of my riding, regardless of whether their view is correct or not, becomes that slight they reuse as repeated anecdata.
I worry Ashley’s cycling
I worry Ashley’s cycling advice is just going to be cycle as it says in the Highway Code and you’ll be fine / don’t know what all you cyclists are moaning about, you must be doing it wrong.
I can see he’s trying to say if everyone follows the rules then there’s no problem. But that’s an unrealistic goal and doesn’t address the issue that a rule breaking cyclist is mostly a danger to themselves, whereas a rule breaking motorist puts others at risk too.
Bit like the colleague at work who moaned that I’d gone through a road closure on my bike instead of doing a 5 mile detour like the car drivers had to. You cyclists never follow the rules! To which I replied if you could guarantee no drivers would be speeding on that detour route and would overtake me carefully, then I’d happily ride the detour. In addition, there was no equivalence between cars & bikes on this closure. It was a 1ft wide 3ft deep trench which was totally impassable in a car, but trivial to step over with a bike. They hadn’t so much banned bikes as not bothered to consider accommodating them.
HoarseMann wrote:
I think this is one of the reasons that cyclists are almost trained to ignore traffic restrictions as they almost never take into account that cyclists can safely go through areas that are impassable in a car. If all the road signs are motor orientated, then it’s hardly surprising that cyclists think that a lot of them are irrelevant.
Definitely this. Roads were
Definitely this. Roads were not built for cars… but they are now designed around motor vehicles. They’re not only not convenient for cycling but often unsafe. Ask yourself – even if there were no cars at all would I want a massive vertical kerb or would we need a pedestrian reservation?
What’s “common sense” if you’re in a large vehicle just doesn’t apply when you’re not. It takes time and effort to appreciate that difference even if you get out of your car / van / truck. A bit like “Why can’t grandma just jog across the road and up those steps…”
What seemed to be underlying
What seemed to be underlying a lot of the commentary was ‘Well, of course, cyclists are invisible, aren’t they – so you have to expect people pulling out and doing other dangerous things in front of you, because there’s no way they could have seen you…’
“Who WOULD win from this
“Who WOULD win from this group?”
“Who WILL win?”/”Who IS GOING TO win?” presupposes that the group will reach the finale intact, which can’t be certain. Or even that they won’t all get taken out by a rampaging zebra, allowing someone else to win.
so we are ignoring the “I
so we are ignoring the “I think that beep was to say thanks…” in Ashleys video then
I’m surprised that there were
I’m surprised that there were not more
impatient helpfulaccomplished motorist using their horns to remind the cyclist of their presence.I’ll take Ogmios over Ashley
I’ll take Ogmios over Ashley when it comes to courteous behaviour to other road users. Actually, full stop.
YES! We definitely need more
YES! We definitely need more graduates from the Zen School of Motoring.
Ashley Neal’s definition of
Ashley Neal’s definition of “Nice Cycling” is staying out of the way of drivers, not making a fuss when one of them puts you in danger, and not, under any circumstances, riding in primary.
He paints himself as an expert, but the reality is that he’s an ignoramus.
He does actually support the
He does actually support the use of primary and taking the lane. Probably not in all the situations I would use it, but he’s certainly not against it.
I think he’s just so deep into car culture, that he must have been bombarded with stereotypical prejudices about cyclists. Let’s face it, a good proportion of the population harbour these views. I don’t think he thinks he’s being unfair when he decided to call a lady cyclist selfish for not dropping back to single file the instant a vehicle approached. It’s maybe the unconscious bias at play. I am hoping if he does get out on a bike (and does a decent amount of cycling) that he might start to see some of these issues in a different light.
I rate him a lot more than
I rate him a lot more than most on here & wish all drivers would take his advice, I just don’t agree with 50% of what he says about cyclists. He made a video on when he left hooked a cyclist 30 years ago.
Cyclist Left Hooked Again! And I’ve done Exactly the same!!
He makes fair points if a bit
He makes fair points if a bit patronising.
NOtotheEU wrote:
I only watched a little bit of that, but he annoyed me with his emphasis on “it could have gone either way” when he left-hooked a cyclist and explained that the cyclist was passing cars on the inside, wearing headphones and had no brakes. I can understand not having brakes is illegal, so I’m doubtful if that’s true, but the other points were not any kind of justification as to why a driver might perform a left-hook. He also mentions in passing that he didn’t have a left WING mirror which would seem to be far more pertinent than whether a cyclist is wearing headphones or not.
I don’t think he was trying to exonerate himself and he does state that he was in the wrong, but it’s just that his whole thought process does seem very car orientated. I’m not a fan.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Agreed, it is very car orientated so I can see why he has few fans here.
And he’s still making
And he’s still making mistakes, like taking his eyes off the road to face the camera.
If you watch the comments,
If you watch the comments, there’s some useful social engineering going on. Ashley likes certain comments, quite often ones were people profess their foolishness and thank Ashley, but you can see people generally working hard to be seen to be right-on Ashley protégés. The result is hopefully a mindset that trickles over into driving, much as we fear the Facebook trolls having a negative effect.
He doesn’t like my comments though, he’s not forgiven me for calling him out when I claimed not to be able to divine the intention of a car horn and pointed out that the Roadcraft manual didn’t support his case.
He showed that when he was on
He showed that when he was on here about use of the horn. Enganged with stakeholders and ignored all their input. After one of his videos he claimed it was too hard to see cyclists, I gave up. Won’t give him any clicks now.
He should stick to driving instructing and not stray into areas beyond his expertise.
I could only watch the first
I could only watch the first two minutes of Ashley Neal’s video before I stopped it; the most patronising git on the planet.