“We don’t want to live in a snitch society”: Mr Loophole takes aim at camera cyclists and Cycling Mikey (again); Clip of shocking Tour de France crash raises questions about concussion protocols; Jumbo-Visma’s Vuelta super team + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Weekend roundup: Potholes, locked gates, and more pro cycling sponsorship woes
If you were out on your bike all weekend, braving the wind, rain, and occasional sunshine, here’s what you may have missed on road.cc:
> Cyclists left baffled as “pointless” new bike route sends them straight towards locked gates
> Bad weather and soaring costs blamed as ‘Boris Bike’ hires fall to lowest level for 10 years
> Want to own Fausto Coppi’s custom 1946 Bianchi road bike? This masterpiece is yours for £103,505
Jumbo-Visma announce ridiculously strong team for Vuelta a España as they target unprecedented grand tour triple
I don’t know whether it’s down to the Super Worlds filling up the usual post-Tour de France downtime, but how is it already time for the Vuelta a España?
The Spanish Grand Tour kicks off in Barcelona this Saturday (anyone want to send me over to cover it? No? Okay…), and Jumbo-Visma – like the playground bully who keeps coming back for your lunch money even when you’re whimpering in the corner – have named a stunningly strong squad as they aim to secure an unprecedented Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple for a trade team in the modern era:
We’ve conquered 🇮🇹 and 🇫🇷. Now we want 🇪🇸 as well.
This is our team for @lavuelta. pic.twitter.com/fWRlyJZZvp
— Team Jumbo-Visma cycling (@JumboVismaRoad) August 20, 2023
This year’s Tour winner Jonas Vingegaard, this year’s Giro winner Primož Roglič, climbing super-super-super domestique Sepp Kuss, Wilco Kelderman, Attila Valter, Dylan van Baarle, Jan Tratnik, and good ol’ Robert Gesink – frankly, that’s too strong a line-up if you ask me. It’s almost cheating (not cheating in the ‘your young kid pops a positive’ kind of cheating, but you know what I mean…).
Anyway, UAE Team Emirates have opted for youthful exuberance – and no Pog – in the fight against the Jumbo juggernaut, with João Almeida and wonderkid Jaun Ayuso leading the charge, ably supported in the mountains by Jay Vine and Marky Marc Soler.
#LaVuelta23 Here we come! Here’s our lineup for the final Grand Tour of the year:
🇵🇹 @JooAlmeida98
🇪🇸 @juann_ayuso
🇳🇿 @finnfisherblack
🇨🇴 @sebasmolano_
🇵🇹 @IvOliveira96
🇵🇹 @roliveira57
🇪🇸 @solermarc93
🇦🇺 @JayVine3 #UAETeamEmirates #WeAreUAE pic.twitter.com/u5sLt50kan— @UAE-TeamEmirates (@TeamEmiratesUAE) August 21, 2023
Go on, Ayuso, take it to those Jumbo bullies…
Valtteri Bottas opts for the classic Roubaix look after finishing 20th at 100-mile SBT GRVL race
The F1 star’s favourite hobby – who needs fast cars, eh? – saw him put in another strong showing on the rough roads, this time on the lumpy 100-mile route at the famous SBT GRVL race in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, complete with obligatory post-race thousand-yard stare…
How was your Sunday?
I did 100miles @sbtgrvl. Cramped a lot in the end. Finished 20/1000. Had some fun pushing myself, sometimes beyond the limit, which just gives you new perspectives of life 😊#VB77 @canyon_bikes @SRAMroad
📷 @ThomasMaheux pic.twitter.com/244EpHiuke— Valtteri Bottas (@ValtteriBottas) August 21, 2023
Despite cramping at the end, Bottas completed the course in 5 hours and 17 minutes, averaging just under 19mph.
Please Valtteri, consider switching to cycling. I am sure @LidlTrek could sign you, they are literally signing everyone these days.
— Cycling out of context (@OutOfCycling) August 21, 2023
If he keeps this up, I wouldn’t put it past transfer-hungry Lidl-Trek – the Chelsea of cycling, so it seems this year – ringing up their social media t-shirt manufacturers over the next few weeks…
Now that’s what I call a bike
> Want to own Fausto Coppi’s custom 1946 Bianchi road bike? This masterpiece is yours for £103,505
Anyone got a spare hundred grand they don’t mind sending to me?
Anyone? Anyone at all…
And in Remco’s corner…
Defending champion @EvenepoelRemco – making his first outing in the Belgian Champion jersey – is ready to lead Soudal Quick-Step at the last Grand Tour of the season – @lavuelta 🔥
Photo: @SportplusM pic.twitter.com/a3wpzIbc9I
— Soudal Quick-Step Pro Cycling Team (@soudalquickstep) August 21, 2023
Now, I’m not saying that the squad Soudal-Quick Step have selected to defend Remco Evenepoel’s Vuelta crown is weak as such (though it would have been nice to see Remco’s fellow Belgian boy wonder Ilan Van Wilder in there somewhere), I’m just slightly concerned that we could be in for three long weeks of Jumbo-Visma domination…
(I’m saying all this now, but wait until you see James Knox’s best Sepp Kuss impression in the Pyrenees. It’s going to happen, I can feel it.)
Paris-Roubaix winner Alison Jackson set to join EF Education-Cannondale in 2024, after demise of, errr, EF Education-TIBCO-SVB
The sad, but slightly confusing, tale of the demise of the longest-running team in the women’s peloton, EF Education-TIBCO-SVB, has taken another twist this morning, with the news that this year’s Paris-Roubaix winner, and lover of Canadian coffee chains, Alison Jackson has secured a contract at the new, and entirely different, EF Education-Cannondale setup.
As we reported at the weekend, the original EF Education team, a WorldTour outfit run by former pro Linda Jackson (and which holds no formal links with the men’s team of the same name, owned by Jonathan Vaughters), is set to fold after losing sponsors TIBCO and Silicon Valley Bank in the wake of much-documented financial crises, while EF Education are also set to jump ship to the new women’s Conti team that will fall under the JV umbrella.
Keeping up?
(Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com)
Jackson’s signing, reported by cycling’s Fabrizio Romano, Daniel Benson, makes her the second EF Education (Old) rider to be snapped up by EF Education (New), following the capture of highly-rated American climber Veronica Ewers earlier this month.
2017 Tour of Flanders winner Coryn Labecki will also join from Jumbo-Visma, while Irish rider Megan Armitage will make the move from Arkéa–Samsic.
The future of other current EF riders, such as British wonderkid Zoe Bäckstedt, remain unclear.
Woman who helped authorities find body of charity cyclist killed by her boyfriend now to sue police
The girlfriend of a man who last month admitted killing charity cyclist Tony Parsons before burying the body, is to sue the police for causing her mental distress by allegedly asking her to spy on her boyfriend over a nine-month period to gather more evidence.
Caroline Muirhead provided a key breakthrough in the case, alerting police to the location of the body, and was a key prosecution witness after she left a Red Bull can at the spot where Alexander McKellar admitted to her that he and twin brother Robert had buried Mr Parsons after hitting and killing the charity cyclist while driving home on the A82 late at night in September 2017.
However, Ms Muirhead is now set to sue the police, with officers allegedly pressuring her to continue to spy on the McKellar brothers, who did not know she had contacted the police, in a bid to collect more evidence.
“Well at least they tried”
Manchester here, emerging with a serious contender for the coveted ‘Most pointless bike lane in the UK’ award with this cracker:
Well at least they tried, this little tiny bike lane. 😁 pic.twitter.com/aGdTqwMXYN
— PeteDPVlogs (@EriolPlusEV) August 18, 2023
Meanwhile, other parts of Greater Manchester are currently enjoying the fruits of a, shall we say, more modern approach to cycling infrastructure:
On Saturday we toured some of GM’s newest walking and cycling infrastructure with @StockportMBC councillors Frizzell, West and @GeoffAbell1 – thanks for coming along! See alt text explaining what we saw along the way👀 pic.twitter.com/zqXByTB5x6
— Walk Ride GM (@WalkRideGM) August 21, 2023
Quality cycle infrastructure:
✅Clear separation between pedestrians, bike riders and motor vehicle drivers
✅Coloured asphalt
✅Wide and straight
✅Priority for bikes crossing side entrances
✅SuDS for drainageWell done Salford. pic.twitter.com/gTinvnJE5N
— Iain Roberts @slowbikeiain@urbanists.social (@slowbikeiain) August 20, 2023
Tour of Britain insists “no issues” with potholes on stage route after councillor slams “dangerous” roads
The Tour of Britain has reassured the public and riders that there are “no issues” with stage seven’s route through Gloucestershire after a local councillor this weekend slammed the “dreadful” and “dangerous” potholes on surrounding roads, saying it is “ironic” that the race is visiting when other roads would risk injuring those travelling by bicycle.
Cycling goalkeeper Ben Foster announces retirement – Next stop GCN?
STATEMENT | Ben Foster announces retirement from professional football
All the very best, @BenFoster – thank you very much for your contributions in both spells with the Football Club, and congratulations on an incredible career 🧤
🔴⚪ #WxmAFC
— Wrexham AFC (@Wrexham_AFC) August 21, 2023
Cycling’s most famous shot stopper is finally hanging up his gloves after a successful 20-year career between the sticks for the likes of Manchester United, Watford, West Brom, and Wrexham.
(Although, considering the current news, it probably wasn’t the best day to release a football statement in retrospect…)
The 40-year-old’s decision to retire in the wake of Wrexham’s Hollywood promotion back to the Football League means he can spend more time where he truly belongs, on the bike, preferably on the Puig Major or in the Alps – but, considering his YouTube experience, could we see him pop up soon enough in the GCN cube? I for one would love to hear Foster’s opinion on who’s going to win the 2024 Tour of Flanders…
Oops: Rookie mistake for Tour de l’Avenir sprinter as he misses out on win by celebrating too early
Radoslaw Fratczak won’t forget today in a hurry. The young Polish rider committed the cardinal sin of sprinting this afternoon on stage two of the Tour de l’Avenir, sitting up to celebrate far too early, allowing Canada’s Riley Pickrell – who will turn pro with Israel Premier Tech next year – to nip in for a cheeky win in Chinon.
𝗣𝗵𝗼𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗶𝘀𝗵! 📸🏁
Canada’s Riley Pickrell just pips Poland’s Radoslaw Fratczak in a 𝙨𝙪𝙥𝙚𝙧 𝙘𝙡𝙤𝙨𝙚 finish to Stage 2 of the Tour de l’Avenir 🤏#TDAV | @tourdelavenir pic.twitter.com/6gSuxyxSlP
— Eurosport (@eurosport) August 21, 2023
Oops. Well, I suppose that’s what a race like the Tour de l’Avenir (the baby Tour de France) is for, after all, to make those kinds of mistakes. Not that Radoslaw will reflect on it that way just yet, of course.
Spanish sensation Juan Ayuso reveals he only has four days a year to eat whatever he wants – and that he always has scales nearby to weigh himself
While Carlos Rodríguez’s crash at the Tour de France – and his worrying stumble back to his bike – has cast some light on pro cycling’s continuing issues around concussion protocols and its obsession with ‘hardness’, a revealing interview with his fellow up-and-coming Spaniard, Juan Ayuso, has offered a revealing glimpse into another of the sport’s concerning obsessions: weight.
For a sport often decided, especially on its iconic mountain passes, to some degree anyway by the simple calculation of power to weight, it’s no surprise that cycling has long had an unhealthy obsession with the scales.
The enduring image of the skeleton-esque cyclist was exemplified, perhaps, by the sticklike, Tour de France-winning figures of Bradley Wiggins and Chris Froome, but stretched back long before the Team Sky marginal gain era (remember Lance Armstrong boasting about pinching his rivals’ waists to see if they’d gained any additional winter weight, or Jan Ullrich’s constant struggle to shed the pounds as the Tour approached? Which he always, somehow, managed to achieve, of course).
And now, one of the so-called ‘new generation’ has revealed how much worrying about food, and the numbers on a scale, can dominate a pro cyclist’s life.
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
Speaking to Spanish website Diario del Triatlón, UAE Team Emirates’ exciting prospect Juan Ayuso – who finished third overall as a teenager at last year’s Vuelta a España – explained that he only has “four days in which I can eat anything I want” throughout the entire year.
The 20-year-old, who at 1.84m tall weighs just 63kg at race weight (for comparison, five-time Tour winner Miguel Induráin is just four centimetres taller than Ayuso, but weighed 78kg at his leanest), told the website: “I always have the scales to weigh the food and to weigh myself nearby.
“Now I live in Andorra alone, but when I lived with my parents I started to weigh my food. At the age of 17 in my second year as a junior, that’s when I started working with my nutritionist Gorka. Up until then I was like any other kid, and now it doesn’t cost me anything just to take the food, put the marker on the scale to zero, and eat.
Ayuso, a winner of two stages at this year’s Tour de Suisse, continued: “To reach the top, you have to make great sacrifices, but whoever wants something has to pay the cost. Now, for example, I come home for Christmas and they give me free rein. I eat everything for four days, bloating myself which takes its toll, but that means that when I have to sacrifice myself I don’t care.
“It’s useless to do everything right on the bike, to be in spectacular shape if you don’t take care of your diet afterwards. It’s better to train less and take more care of food and other things. It is a fundamental part and you have to take care of it.
“It is not difficult for me to sacrifice myself foodwise, because I know that I need discipline and I know that it is useless to train four or five hours of training and spoil everything. But it is true there are people who try to make everything perfect but there comes a day when they can’t take it anymore and they spoil everything, because they eat in one day what they have avoided for a whole month.
“Before doing that, you have to indulge yourself and try control it. The permission they gave me at Christmas is enough for me and now I don’t have the need to sin. For example, I ate a good lamb.”
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
Of course, the fact that Ayuso appears happy with his monk-like regimen at 20 – and one that he has been living with for three years already – doesn’t mean he can necessarily sustain it long-term, a factor noted by many when assessing the unprecedented success of younger and younger riders in recent years.
One retired rider acutely aware of the sacrifices required to become a pro, Alejandro Valverde, told the site that the strict discipline outlined by Ayuso is “mentally hard to endure for many years” and could potentially lead to burn out for his talented generation of riders.
Let’s just hope that Christmas lamb can help sustain Ayuso throughout the Vuelta…
Reader reaction: Cycling’s ‘bravado’ problem and why there is always a social media post, somewhere
Plenty of reaction to today’s live blog stories, including the fallout over the recently rediscovered clip of Carlos Rodríguez’s nasty crash on stage 20 of this year’s Tour de France and, most importantly, his walk back to the bike, which more closely resembled the staggered approach of some of the riders after a post-Tour session in a Parisien bar than it did the actions of an elite rider ready to rejoin a fast-moving bunch.
“Sadly pro-cycling has a bravado problem,” Steve Fry wrote on Twitter in response to the harrowing clip. “The attitude is always this is a sport for hard men and women, but the riders need protection from themselves. Do better.”
“Certain brands romanticised that ‘hard’ image as well,” agreed Henry.
Can cycling’s concussion problem only be properly handled after we first assess the sport’s often masochistic view of itself?
Meanwhile, back in Cycling Mikey and Nick Freeman land, road.cc reader LeadenSkies offered their take on why it’s important to crack down on phone using motorists:
What I don’t like is the fact that every time I dare to cycle on the road, I put my life in the hands of people who illegally play with their mobile phone whilst driving because they decide that posting on X or some other social media platform is more important than driving safely.
As others have already pointed out, they don’t just do this in stationery traffic, they do it while driving and the distraction caused by doing it lasts for 30 seconds plus afterwards and is impairment of a similar level to drink driving.
And finally, Steve K proved there’s a handy (and damning) social media post for every comment:
“This Nick Freeman bloke who doesn’t think cyclists should be video-ing other road users? Is he in any way related to this Nick Freeman?”
Shot this video from passenger seat of cyclists flouting Highway Code ie R59 should wear helmet & light/fluorescent clothing.R 66 Should never ride more than single file on narrow/busy roads & when riding around bends.R68 You MUST NOT ride in inconsiderate manner #cycling #law pic.twitter.com/waDXPz5Ngw
— Nick Freeman (@TheMrLoophole) December 2, 2021
Quelle surprise.
Clip of shocking Tour de France crash that saw Carlos Rodríguez faceplant the road raises questions about cycling’s concussion protocols
A fan-made video from last month’s Tour de France, which captures the moment Ineos rider Carlos Rodríguez crashed heavily on the descent of the Ballon d’Alsace, taking down Sepp Kuss in the process, has prompted a social media debate this morning concerning cycling’s approach to its concussion protocols.
The harrowing crash, which took place on the first descent of the penultimate stage of this year’s Tour, in the Vosges mountains, saw Rodríguez – who was linked with a move away from the British team this winter, but now appears set to stay – lose control of his front wheel while riding behind the yellow jersey Jonas Vingegaard.
The 22-year-old then proceeds to skid along the road, face down, as Vingegaard’s Jumbo-Visma teammate Sepp Kuss attempts and fails to jump over the falling Ineos rider, flying over his handlebars in the process. Pello Bilbao, meanwhile, manages to, somehow, just about avoid riding straight into Rodríguez’ head.
In the clip, we can see a clearly shaken Rodríguez stagger to his feet, stumbling along the road, as riders stream past and teammate Omar Fraile waits with his bike.
As a badly bloodied and bruised Rodríguez continued racing after his fall on the descent, finishing 12th on the day, just 52 seconds behind stage winner Tadej Pogačar, and managing to retain his top five placing on GC, the worrying nature of his reaction to the crash, clearly shown on the fan’s video, has this morning raised questions about how Ineos and the Tour’s medical team responded to the 22-year-old’s physical state during the stage.
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
“I don’t understand why the protocol was not activated for when they fall and get up like this. I also don’t understand how long the medical car took to get to him,” one Spanish Twitter user wrote. “It’s a miracle (no other word after watching this) that Carlos Rodríguez didn’t leave his face and all his teeth right there.”
“Where’s the concussion protocol when you need it?” asked David. “Someone staggering like that shouldn’t be put back on a bike.”
“Rodríguez not being able to walk in a straight line but allowed to continue riding,” Fabrizio noted.
> UCI publishes new concussion protocol as other sports face lawsuits from retired athletes
The debate around Rodríguez’ return to action after appearing to show signs of concussion will add further weight to the argument proffered by some that cycling continues to have a “concussion problem”.
In December 2020, the UCI published a new concussion protocol – which recommends that riders do not return to competition for at least a week after their symptoms have gone – following a warning from brain charity Headway that cycling is “lagging miles behind other sports” when it comes to dealing with sports-related concussion.
And last year, a study conducted at the University of Northampton found that four out of five competitive cyclists were unaware of the limitations of helmets when it comes to protecting them from concussion.
Earlier this year, Ineos Grenadiers did, however, act swiftly when one of their riders showed signs of concussion, withdrawing Tom Pidcock from the final stage of Tirreno-Adriatico following a nasty crash.
A few days later, the team issued a statement confirming that the Yorkshireman, who was continuously monitored by the team’s doctors after his crash, had been displaying symptoms of mild concussion, resulting in a prescribed period of rest, line with the British squad’s established concussion protocols, that caused him to miss Milan-San Remo and some cobbled classics.
> Why pro cycling needs to ditch its ‘hardness’ obsession
Of course, concussion remains a difficult issue in a sport where riders prepare for months for major targets like the Tour de France, where money, contracts, and UCI points are constantly on the line, and where riders can often be back on their bikes before a member of the medical team – tasked, in these instances, often to save a rider from themselves – can even reach them.
And, if some of the replies to today’s original tweet are anything to go by, it seems that riders remain unfairly burdened by the expectation that they’re the toughest of all athletes, and that they should just get up and get back on their bikes, regardless of how a crash had impacted them. Cycling’s concussion problem, it seems, tends to go hand in hand with its attitude problem, too.
“We don’t want to live in a snitch society”: Mr Loophole takes aim at camera cyclists and Cycling Mikey’s focus on phone drivers (again)
Cycling Mikey sure gets around these days, doesn’t he?
At the weekend, the live blog season ticket holder was, once again, the star of an in-depth feature in one of the big national newspapers, as the Sunday Times asked, ‘What’s driving Cycling Mikey, Britain’s most hated cyclist?’
That headline… Yeesh.
Setting aside what Jeremy Vine (another live blog stalwart) described as an “iffy headline”, in the article the Times’ Nick Rufford accompanied Mikey on one of his rides seeking out phone using motorists, to ascertain whether he’s a “road safety hero or just a darned nuisance”.
Of course, despite Vine’s praise for the article and its rather balanced approach to its subject, Rufford’s piece is still inevitably peppered with some classic anti-cycling bingo phrases: the writer notes that Van Erp is viewed by some as a “self-righteous snooper”, while he and Vine are described as “helmet-cam warriors”, and those spotted by Mikey using their phones as “victims”.
An incident recounted in the article, in which Mikey reports an ambulance driver for using their phone, has also divided opinion on social media, as well as on the road.cc forum (an argument on the forum? Get out of here!).
However, it’s the inclusion of yet another live blog favourite, Mr Loophole himself, Nick Freeman, that has perhaps caused the biggest stir online.
Freeman, a lawyer who specialises in getting phone drivers off the hook, told the Sunday Times that the police appear to be “actively encouraging” activists like Cycling Mikey, arguing that the outcome will be even greater mistrust between cyclists and motorists.
“Using a mobile phone in a car is dangerous and it is right that it’s prohibited. But I don’t think we want to live in a snitch society. I’m not saying the public don’t have a role to play but, really, isn’t that the role of the police?” Freeman asked.
“It’s an industry now and in my view it’s wrong. And there’s no relevant legislation that properly deals with cyclists who cycle dangerously. So the law is all over the place.”
> Mr Loophole applauds police action against “vigilante cyclists” filming law-breaking drivers
Freeman then argued that fixed traffic cameras are more than adequate to pick up law-breaking drivers.
He continued: “The police could say to cyclists, thank you very much for your help but we no longer need it. Please don’t do it.”
A lawyer who earned his nickname by getting law-breaking motorists off the hook on technicalities arguing against members of the public supplying additional evidence of this law breaking? Whatever next?!
“Cycling Mikey does a brilliant job,” wrote one. “But I am not impressed by Nick Freeman saying ‘I don’t think we want to live in a snitch society’; if we don’t report crime, our society will be a criminal free for all. ‘Snitches’ is prison talk and not helpful.”
Nick seems to be on the wrong side of every debate I’ve seen him in, IMO. It’s clickbait PR tactics from him to gain publicity, I think.
— CyclingMikey the Unspeakable (@MikeyCycling) August 20, 2023
Naturally, Van Erp disagreed with good ol’ Nick, arguing that with the dwindling number of traffic police to enforce road laws, camera cyclists are the best hope of deterring drivers.
“My goal is to give people the perception they might be caught,” he said. “It’s the certainty of detection that’s the best deterrent.”
Cycling Mikey, Jeremy Vine, and Mr Loophole all in the one live blog story? Do I win a road.cc medal or something now?
Help us to bring you the best cycling content
If you’ve enjoyed this article, then please consider subscribing to road.cc from as little as £1.99. Our mission is to bring you all the news that’s relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. Your subscription will help us to do more.
49 Comments
Read more...
Read more...
Read more...
Latest Comments
@Rendel Harris Agree, I am baffled that the 84 year old who is now banned from driving for year can then start driving again without a retest. We should be re-tested regularly.
@mitsky Just checking the figures and apparently the 2026 average cost is £58,000 per year per prisoner; worth noting that is only the direct cost, you then have to factor in ten years of lost tax income from the prisoner, ten years that the prisoner is making no contribution to society as a worker or as a consumer, plus the fact that if they were the primary breadwinner very likely the costs will include benefits for their family as well. None of which should be a reason for keeping violent recidivists out of prison of course, nor drug/drink drivers who kill, but it is a factor worth considering for lower-level offences.
@Surreyrider I ride in Surrey a fair bit and absolutely many do look like that but the point is they all *think* they're driving perfectly reasonably (as one discovers when remonstrating with someone who's skimmed one by 30cm, "I gave you masses of room") so deterrent penalties have little effect. That's why we need to strike at the root cause and actually train drivers properly and test them stringently (and more than once over the course of a potential 70+ years of driving, it's absolutely absurd that competence and knowledge in what for most people is the activity in their life that will run the biggest risk of killing people you never have to have your qualifications renewed).
@mitsky Imprisonment currently costs over £50k p.a. per prisoner and obviously that will rise over the course of a ten-year stretch with inflation. Regarding culpability and mitigating sentences etc, of course I'm not against condign punishment for drivers who kill (and cyclists on the tiny, tiny handful of occasions when this happens), including prison as appropriate; I was objecting to the ridiculous and oft-repeated demand of MM that drivers who kill cyclists must get ten years, "no excuses, no exceptions".
Hey, but their wool blend cycling adjacent t-shirts are/were fantastic.
@Surreyrider Still the boss. Ride one, you'll see why
@Smoggysteve "Most would happily ride on the roads and be treated with respect by drivers". But people aren't - and as far as I can see they won't be. Not until there is a lot less driving and it's slower around cyclists, and far more people driving have "skin in the game" eg. they sometimes cycle and their friends and family do also. That's what leads to the model - which is perhaps most advanced in NL - where cycling, walking and driving are all seen as separate normal transport modes. Their needs, vulnerabilities and any dangers to others are considered. And *that* leads to "mix / share when possible, separate when necessary". But "possible" is "where your 10-year old would be safe to cycle unsupervised" - so very few motor vehicles, going slow! And AFAICS everybody - even "existing cyclists" - is happy with the result. (I dunno about a few pro cyclists - but don't they tend to have training camps in different counties anyway?)
@quiff as an Edinburgh resident I can confidently say he's speaking without moving his lips in one sense: - while as I noted in a separate comment there *is* now some real separated cycle infra, all the examples i can think of have *at least as much space* for pedestrians. The rest of the "cycle infra" is essentially similar to the situation in the rest of the UK: eg. bus lanes*, cycle lanes and shared use paths (eg. "build" infra by sticking up a sign). Edinburgh is one of the places with a moderately extensive network of former railways which have been converted to "shared use" paths (completely motor traffic few). However though shared they are not narrow by UK standards. And this is all effectively a "free extra" for all non- motorised users, not like the "sign a cycle path" where pedestrians do lose space. I think this all comes from the "popular understanding" of cycling in which ultimately cyclists are the "other". They don't fit "motor vehicle" or "pedestrian" (including wheelchairs on the very rare occasions people think about that). Thus "cyclists are cheating" in multiple ways! They shouldn't get their own space as "there aren't enough" of them. And "they can just use the road / path". But being able to *choose* "on the road" or "on the footway" (shared use path) is clearly unfair - nobody else gets to do that! BUT of course even if they did pick just one of road OR pedestrian space it's still not fair anyway because they're "too slow" for the road (don't pay "road tax" etc...) and "far too fast" for pedestrians... * Though some existing cyclists may appreciate them when there are few buses, buses and bikes are a very poor mix for several reasons.
Whilst a shame for any employees, their bib shorts had the worst chamois pad I’d ever encountered, utter waste of my money. Even though they were Strava challenge discount purchases, still a waste of money.
Thanks, just going to have to suck it up. Got next week off and will take the easy, if expensive option...
49 thoughts on ““We don’t want to live in a snitch society”: Mr Loophole takes aim at camera cyclists and Cycling Mikey (again); Clip of shocking Tour de France crash raises questions about concussion protocols; Jumbo-Visma’s Vuelta super team + more on the live blog”
I’d say non-violent crime is
I’d say non-violent crime is well within the purview of a citizen.
“has also divided opinion on
“has also divided opinion on [social media], as well as on the road.cc forum”
I suppose if you count the views of 2 PBUs, you might argue that.
Why are they still here is the real question?
Wasn’t ever going to post on
Wasn’t ever going to post on the PBUs forum post, so I’d say that Mikey is not the most hated cyclist, that award would be given by the driver to the cyclist in front of them that is preventing them from going over the speed limit for a handful of seconds, or the cyclist passing them whilst the driver is stuck in traffic of their own making.
And the post was only set up to use the recent post on banning criteria, to get some responders to obvious trolls banned themselves, be careful.
Does he likewise disapprove
Does he likewise disapprove of people using their home security camera footage to grass up people breaking the law to the police?
I don’t report drivers
I don’t report drivers because I’m a snitch, I do it because they endanger my life.
Quote:
You get my vote for sardonic pun of the year!
Nick Freeman wrote:
Effectively he’s saying mobile phone use at the wheel has reached an industrial scale
Nick Freeman does not like
Nick Freeman does not like Snitches.
NHS management do not like whistle blowers.
When does a snitch become a whistle blower?
It is definitely in the
It is definitely in the language. I was just talking to a bloke who’s hobby is fishing. He has no problems with snitching or as he would phrase ‘reporting poachers’
“But I don’t think we want to
“But I don’t think we want to live in a snitch society.”
I think he’s missing the direction of travel by successive governments. If you look at industry regulatory bodies like the EA, HSE, and Trading Standards they have had nothing but budget cuts for probably 3 decades. Industry is now supposed to be “self policing”. It’s the very corner stone of small government. It doesn’t really work because of this type of attitude. However, we keep on voting for it every time we are offered a tax cut. Eventually it ends in tragedy and lots of hand wringing.
I don’t see why it’s any different for roads policing (or any policing) and many progressive police forces recognise this. Chapeau to Northants who have made their reporting form even easier.
Mikey’s ‘our’ London cycling
Mikey’s ‘our’ London cycling champion!
He may not be everyones mate but he’s spending his time ensuring some of the population think twice about picking up their phones whilst behind the wheel.
The more people talk about him and write about him, the more people will be aware that there’s a chance they’ll get caught breaking the law whilst behind the wheel.
We should make it easier to submit evidence and finacially reward people who report crimes which result in convictions. An additional ‘fine’ should be added on to pay for the people involved in bringing the matter to prosecution.
Use whatever playground
Use whatever playground language you like, but it seems fine to me if members of the public can make money out of videoing folk breaking laws and passing this to the police to action as appropriate. I’m sure it helps keep the legal profession in a job.
I think I would go further.
I think I would go further.
I believe we can all agree, that there are fewer police on the streets as most of us would like. Thus, as a society, we all have the duty to help police the nation.
Given this, I would suggest that anyone who has evidence of a crime is duty bound to report it and when doing so, should be offered a small fee for any information provided which results in a successful prosecution. Of course you would not have to accept the fee and could, if you wish, give it to charities concerned with the task of re-educating drivers into acceptable members of society.
essexian wrote:
I entirely agree, I never tire of Sir Robert Peel’s statement on the matter:
I am never quite sure how our small but vociferous resident coterie of right-wingers reconcile their opposition to people like CM with this quote from a man who is both the father of modern policing and the founder of the modern Conservative party.
Rendel Harris wrote:
You had me until that bit.
TheBillder wrote:
the modern Conservative party.
— TheBillder You had me until that bit.— Rendel Harris
They’ve regressed quite a lot since his time, of course, he was really more of a progressive liberal; the current Conservatives are more like the old-fashioned autocratic vested interest Tory party that Peel set out to reform.
Rendel Harris wrote:
I dunno – if you look at the last couple of PMs (!) and the upper echelon I’d say it’s less county squires: more the kids of those who made good more recently. Less tradition, more ambition. Maybe not pulling up the ladder behind them but dismissive of those who haven’t made it like they did.
essexian wrote:
Has the neolib propaganda machine penetrated even you!? Turn being a dutiful citizen into a business instead!!?
Soon the “dutiful citizens” will become not just the avid seekers of the crimes but the causes of them so as to up their revenue when whoever they do an agent provocateur on falls for it.
Mind, the polis have been doing it for ages.
Prevention is generally better than cure. Let’s persuade the politicians to do their job and ban not just phones in cars but cars as well. Think of the freedoms we’d all have from the baluddy things.
For the neolib pecksniffers, think of the money that’d be saved, by both you personally and the gummint. We could have an NHS again. One that works and isn’t infested with privatised neolib not-really-a-service, don’t-provide-it-anyway scams.
But I digress.
I’m hoping, despite it being naughty, that the loopholer is run over by a car driven by an inattentive phoner-person not yet apprehended by that Mikey.
In New York they pay people
Regarding “snitching” becoming an industry…
In New York they pay people for reports of cycle lane blocking by drivers.
If this could be extended to other forms of bad driving (ie phone use etc) and in different countries… then why not?
I remember reading somewhere that someone made 4 or 5 figures (in USD$) doing it.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-bill-would-pay-people-to-report-drivers-parking-illegally/3899757/
“Snitching” – that’s
“Snitching” – that’s definitely something that depends on opinion! I bet if you count all the “curtain-twiching neighbours” or the local types with “he’s parked in my space again – the next time I see him half an inch on a double yellow…” it would be both “traditional” and a UK universal!
Can’t recall the quote but while “spy mania” and “distrust” are stereotypically associated with Russia over the last century was not secrecy (and with it – snooping) “the English disease“?
It has been suggested in one
It has been suggested in one of my other favourite sports, rugby union, that one way of levelling the playing field in the current era of monstrously huge forwards is to have an overall weight limit for each team. Looking at Jumbo’s lineup for the Vuelta I’m wondering whether it might be a good idea to give teams an overall number of rider world ranking points permitted for their entry, so if you want to run the world number one and two in the same race you will have to use some lower ranked riders in your team as well so as not to exceed the limit, rather than also taking numbers five, seven, nine, ten and eleven (or whatever). Otherwise we really are in danger of becoming like Formula One where (in my limited understanding) it seems that there are only ever one or two teams with a realistic chance of winning because they’ve bought up all the talent.
Interesting concept.
Interesting concept.
Not that I’m saying that anyone would actively seek a loophole but would teams then just game the points/ranking system? Only use super domestiques in low ranking races / have them DNF having dragged their leader to the finish etc?
I disagree. We want to see
I disagree. We want to see all the world’s best riders at the world’s best races. It would be like telling Manchester City that they if they are going to pick Haaland and De Bruyne (yes, I know he’s injured) then they can’t pick Foden.
If you want to keep the competition alive, then you need to a way to stop all the talent going to a few teams, not constrain who they can pick once it’s there.
Well I agree with you, so
Well I agree with you, so there. Inasmuch as yes, we want to see the best riders at the biggest races; the idea behind my suggestion would be that you might actually still see them all but competing against each other rather than many of them riding on the same team and becoming an unstoppable force like Sky/INEOS of old and the current JV. If each team could only run one or two marquee names, instead of having maybe seven of the world’s top twenty on one team, there might be better and less predictable competition because they wouldn’t buy up so many top riders that they couldn’t use and so more would be available to other teams. I’m thinking something like the NFL draft system in its effect, which ensures a better distribution of talent across the field.
I’m sure there are plenty of reasons to object to my idea, it was just a throwaway thought, but I do think it would be beneficial to cycling to at least give some consideration to preventing three or four teams being quite so dominant.
Yeah, I agree with your final
Yeah, I agree with your final comment, I just wasn’t sure your suggestion (which I appreciate you weren’t claiming was a fully thought through proposal!) would work. The richest teams would still hoard the best riders, they would just use them differently (again, look at the depth of the richest football team’s squads). If you were going to take something from Rugby Union, perhaps some sort of salary cap across the squad.
Rendel Harris wrote:
Sounds like Fantasy Cycling!
Ending professional sports?
Ending professional sports? There’s an idea…
marmotte27 wrote:
You don’t have to end professional sports to create a more level playing field; numerous sports have successfully employed salary caps and/or draft pick systems to ensure that no team can become super dominant solely by virtue of having more funds than their rivals.
This Nick Freeman bloke who
This Nick Freeman bloke who doesn’t think cyclists should be video-ing other road users? Is he in any way related to this Nick Freeman? https://twitter.com/TheMrLoophole/status/1466474327541436420
The one and only.
The one and only.
sapperadam wrote:
That was Chesney Hawkes.
I was thinking about that one
I was thinking about that one!
I think the video and driving may be separate but there was some debate on this when it first appeared here…
Then there are some of the other comments he makes which show that his understanding of “safety” and indeed “cycling” is sketchy (being charitable).
The UK has more CCTV cameras
The UK has more CCTV cameras per capita than any other western nation.
But yeah, its cyclists with gopros.They are the real issue!
That’s him. Mr PoopHole.
That’s him. Mr PoopHole. Forever spouting total excrement. Is reporting any crime a problem for him (child abuse, robbery, people trafficking, sexual abuse etc etc), or is it just the crimes that he and his clientele routinely engage in whilst driving?!
So when I witness a murder I
So when I witness a murder I won’t do anything and when the police later ask me why I didn’t tell them, I’ll say because that (fwit) Nick Freeman said we shouldn’t snitch.
We all know what snitches get
We all know what snitches get ??
Rodríguez faceplant
Rodríguez faceplant
Live blog favourite Ben
Live blog favourite Ben Foster is back to being cycling former goalkeeper. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66567998
Steve K wrote:
Is that the Ben Foster who jets around the country and has a carbon footprint bigger than a small towns?
What I don’t like is the fact
What I don’t like is the fact that every time I dare to cycle on the road, I put my life in the hands of people who illegally play with their mobile phone whilst driving because they decide that posting on X or some other social media platform is more important than driving safely. As others have already pointed out, they don’t just do this in stationery traffic, they do it while driving and the distraction caused by doing it lasts for 30 seconds plus afterwards and is impairment of a similar level to drink driving.
Dont want to live in a snitch
Dont want to live in a snitch society? What an absolute pile of dog turd that Loophole is. Would he advocate that all of society refuses to give evidence to help convict criminals, or is it only when cyclists are injured or killed? One can only hope that karma comes to him and he is smashed into by a texting lorry driver. It’s because of dickhead statements like his that so many drivers think it’s not an issue to drive on the motorway whilst staring into their laps where their phone is. Perhaps he should try and convince the husband of that family that were wiped out on the A34 that cyclists who report mobile phone users are snitches. I’d fully expect and support that husband thumping his stupid smug smile of his face.
Mr Loophole is a piece of
Mr Loophole is a piece of crap. He’s happy for dangerous drivers to stay on the road as long as they pay him pots of money. He doesn’t like ordinary people who dare to stand up for the law, which he is so happy to twist to meet the needs of his rich clients.
The lawyer truly grips my sh
The lawyer truly grips my sh!t. Who does he think he is? Saul Goodman?
He’s certainly no Howard Greenberg.
“…I don’t think we want to
“…I don’t think we want to live in a snitch society.“
Criminals always say that.
A sentiment shared the same
A sentiment shared the same people who paradoxically also say things like “Why do you mind the authorities looking if you’ve got nothing to hide?” Only when it’s someone else’s privacy at stake
Two observations on the Nick
Two observations on the Nick Freeman piece:
1. The guy clearly has little or no self awareness. He opines on rights and responsibilities whilst promoting himself as “Mr Loophole”
2. He needs to visit Specsavers – the road in the video is not a “narrow” road – it has space for two lanes.
True – also his little video
True – also his little video makes no sense. The cyclists are not cycling in an ‘inconsiderate’ manner. They are perfectly obeying the rules. A tractor or other farm vehicle would be doing exactly the same
It’s just Mr loophole talking
It’s just Mr loophole talking out of his poophole as usual, best to just ignore him.
Quote:
6.6 million UK drivers admit to using their mobile when driving (so who knows what the true figure is, but one has to assume considerably higher): in 2022 16,000 were caught. One doesn’t want to accuse such a renowned road safety expert and top lawyer of talking bollocks, but catching 0.24% of offenders (and of course not all of them will have been caught with fixed traffic cameras) isn’t what most people would describe as “more than adequate”.