“Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches… motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens”: BBC radio discussion looks at third-party reporting; “Long-overdue”: Cyclists rejoice at plan for traffic-free Cheddar Gorge + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
"Long-overdue": Cyclists rejoice at plan for traffic-free Cheddar Gorge
> Cyclists and pedestrians could enjoy traffic-free Cheddar Gorge once a month under new plan
This has gone down well with you lot…
alchemilla: “This is long- overdue. Good luck to them, I hope it works out and eventually gets extended. Cheddar Gorge is a site of special scientific interest with rare Cheddar Pinks growing there, and of course the goats and sheep. It’s incredible that this magnificent location has been allowed to be ruined for visitors by the noise and fumes of vehicles for too long.”
Rendel Harris: “Amen. Average speed cameras at top and bottom would be a good addition, I went there once early on a spring morning and it was paradise, once on a summer afternoon and it was crammed with idiots with supercars and hot hatches treating it like a rally track. Superbikes (the motorised kind) were pretty bad too.”
don simon fbpe: “I’d like to see something like this in Eryri, particularly roads around Yr Wyddfa. Sounds like a great idea.”
Robert Hardy: “Restricted to once a month I hope it doesn’t become dominated by sport cyclists, families ambling along on their bikes, child seats and trailers amongst pedestrians at little more than walking pace presents a pleasant picture.”
UCI Cycling World Championships generated nearly £2 million for Dumfries and Galloway economy
[Ed Sykes/SWpix.com]
How much bang for their buck did Dumfries and Galloway Council get out of bringing the paracycling events to the region during the UCI Cycling World Championships? Plenty, according to an independent analysis of the economic impact of the six-figure investment, reported by the Daily Record.
The events, held between August 9 and 12 created a direct economic impact of £1,888,277, a figure defined as “the total amount of additional expenditure within a defined geographical area, which can be directly attributed to staging an event”.
“The council’s investment of £130,000 was instrumental in achieving a direct economic impact of over £1.8m for businesses in Dumfries and
Galloway,” the report stated.
In the breakdown of estimated spending, it is suggested the accomodation sector would have benefited from 4,532 booked bed nights, totalling around one million pounds in extra spending, while it is estimated more than £540,000 was spent by athletes, teams, spectators and staff on food, drink and other items.
Rás Tailteann And Rás na mBan receive increased funding
In the week when the Tour of Britain and Women’s Tour disappeared off the UCI calendar the only positive news we’ve got for you comes from across the Irish Sea. Cycling Ireland has announced the Rás Tailteann and Rás na mBan races will enjoy increased funding for 2024. Wouldn’t that be nice?
The funding will be provided by the Department of Sport and with support from Sport Ireland and both races will receive an equal share of funding for the first time. Cycling Ireland thanked the relevant ministers and Department of Sport and Ireland for the support that, it says, “ensures the events take place in 2024”.
Cycling Ireland Chief Executive Officer, James Quilligan, said: “Cycling Ireland is delighted to announce an increase in funding for the 2024 Rás Tailteann and Rás na mBan from the Department of Sport and Sport Ireland. Both races are led by an incredible group of volunteers, and we look forward to working with both as event partners in 2024.
“The races are among the most important on the Irish calendar and showcase the very best of Irish cycling and have attracted many top international cyclists throughout their storied histories. We’d like to thank Minister Martin, Minister Byrne, the Department of Sport and Sport Ireland’s support of the races.”
Rás Tailteann Race Director, Ger Campbell, added: “All of us at Cairde Rás Tailteann are thrilled with the announcement of the increase in funding. With the costs involved in promoting the event it’s a huge boost for the race. It will allow us to plan our budget earlier this year and put in place important structures to make the event even better. The Rás is hugely important to Ireland’s sports calendar, and we look forward to the continued success for the event going forward. It’s a huge boost for the event.”
"The only motive was idiocy": Two men who pushed cyclists into ditches for “fun” handed a two-year suspended prison sentence
Sometimes social media's a laugh: Comedian's startlingly accurate 15-minute city opponent vox-pops
Voxpop: 15 minute cities pic.twitter.com/ZDZU7vIX2Z
— alistair green (@mralistairgreen) February 1, 2024
Must have been inspired by that comic who does the parody MP skits… you know, the one where he rattles off a known conspiracy theory about 15-minute cities while speaking in Parliament… ah, wait a second…
> Tory MP attacks 15-minute city concept with known conspiracy theory
"I presume that is the same as: 'A motorist at 20mph is carefully driving with care and consideration, whereas a cyclist at 20 mph is dangerously speeding and out of control'." — your thoughts on BBC camera discussion
“Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches… motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens”: BBC radio discussion looks at third-party reporting (and why do some cyclists get such a hard time for it?)https://t.co/H6Eguch46Y #cycling pic.twitter.com/yfxnlC77Im
— road.cc (@roadcc) February 2, 2024
brooksby: “‘Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches… motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens…’
“I presume that is the same as: a motorist at 20mph is carefully driving with care and consideration, whereas a cyclist at 20 mph is dangerously speeding and out of control.”
Geoff Ingram: “Unless there is a MGIF driver behind the cyclist, at which point he is crawling along, holding everybody up.”
Ah, Schrödinger, our old friend. Good to see you again…
ChasP: “I think a lot of the criticism of cyclist’s reports are of phone use in slow or stationary traffic which many motorists wrongly see as ok.”
Smoggysteve: “This whole culture of calling people snitches is ludicrous. Are we talking about Merseyside gang wars here or something? People will piss and moan about insurance costs rising but when efforts are put in place to try and reduce incidents on the roads ie using phones while driving or aggressive behaviour the same people will talk about grasses recording law breakers. Seriously! What do they want?”
Turbans can reduce the risk of head injuries in cyclists but not “as effective as helmets”, study finds
British Cycling hopes to deliver Tour of Britain and women's edition in 2024
Apologies, folks, nipped away to do something on this…
> British Cycling hopes to deliver Tour of Britain and women’s edition in 2024
One of the UK's oldest bike shops closes after 134 years in business
Langsett Cycles, the Sheffield bike shop that has been in business since 1890, has closed. In a post shared on Facebook this week, the 134-year-old bike shop’s closure was announced.
The owners also run a cycle hire business in Mallorca called Mallorca Bike Hire and have recently expanded the business to add a sports bar to their offering (bike hire and sport in a pub… that’s all I need, to be fair), with the time now coming to “dedicate more of our time in the sunshine with our family”.
“It’s no secret that times are currently challenging in the cycle trade, but they won’t be like this forever, spring is just around the corner,” the post said.
“I believe that cycling will continue to increase considerably in the future and cycle shops do have a future, the business is solvent so if anyone is interested in taking on this historic business moving forward please get in touch via email asap… it’s a gift!”
Pro cyclists who posted racist gesture during race in China asked to teach the "values of cycling" to junior riders
"Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches... motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens": BBC radio discussion looks at third-party reporting (and why do some cyclists get such a hard time for it?)
We got wind of BBC Radio 5 Live’s Nicky Campbell hosting a segment during his Thursday show about reporting third-party helmet camera and dash-cam footage to the police so, naturally, thought we’d check it out and report back…
To our delight (and relief) there were some quite interesting and sensible points raised as listeners called and texted in, while Campbell spoke to Bryn Brooker, head of road safety at Nextbase (the dash-cam brand behind the Nextbase reporting portal).
Introduced with an ‘Accidental Partridge’-worthy Campbell scrambling to get through to his guest… “Hi Bryn, are you there for me, Bryn? For everyone? Ready to go? Bryn? Bring on Bryn! Are you there Bryn? HELLO! YAY!”… the presenter went on to read out a text from a listener, Ally in Newcastle: “Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches… motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens doing their civic duty. Symptomatic of all our transport policies really”
That’s enough material for this entire blog post, to be honest. An interesting point. As per Nextbase’s own figures, more than 33,500 videos were submitted to police via the National Dash Cam Safety Portal in 2023 up until the end of November, a 30 per cent increase on the same period in 2022, most apparently coming from dash-cams.
And yet, any length of time looking at the topic in the sewers of social media will find accusations of ‘grassing’ and ‘snitching’ labelled at cyclists who do so. Less so about the other road users who do the similar. In fact, camera cyclists’ bad rap even reached the Britain’s Got Talent stage in 2022 as comedian, and eventual winner, Axel Blake made it past the auditions with his cyclist bit, prompting judge Amanda Holden to weigh in on cyclists with cameras that are “asking for trouble”. So, for starters, why? What is it about cyclists filming and reporting road offences which causes outrage when the majority of reports to the police come from cameras within vehicles?
Speaking on the wider third-party reporting point, Nextbase’s head of safety said: “In five years over 100,000 offences have been reported and personally I’ve seen this making a real difference, enabling the police to take action on dangerous drivers. For me this people doing their civic duty. If you see a dangerous driver driving recklessly, almost causing a collision, then I think most people want to do something about that.”
“The police are being inundated,” came Campbell’s reply…
“The police are actually finding this is saving time, the great thing about the portal is it was set up with the police and traditionally if you take a piece of footage to the police they would have to fill out a witness statement, take time to fill it out. With the system that’s been set up that statement is taken automatically, so all they’re asked to do is look at the footage. Is action required? Yes or no. If it is the witness statement is already there, ready to go.
> Here’s what to do if you capture a near miss, close pass or collision on camera while cycling
“Actually, we calculated that over the last five years it saved an estimated 91 years of police time…”
Campbell reacted: “Oh, that’s an extraordinary stat… an interesting interpretation of what some people are saying is just a mountain of extra stuff for police… but, it makes sense…”
“If you think about it,” Nextbase’s Brooker replied. “People have got phones and dash-cams. Evidence exists. Before this portal existed the police did have to go to people’s houses to collect the data or people had to fill in a witness statement manually. That time is saved and it allows them to go and do other things.”
The full episode is here, the discussion about cameras and third-party reporting coming just after the hour mark…
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Latest Comments
Is that a Russian "z" symbol represented by the front wheel? Or is it an "s" - and is the back wheel the same?
Of course this will rightly be subject to meeting legal evidence requirements. Which will then be amended to "we have been told that the minimum evidential standards are..." Which a cynic might suggest will allow police to dismiss enough cases so they don't get too busy. Except when a few of them get suspicious of someone and decide to make up the law again...
RE: "suitable roadside test equipment" Does this mean "UCI-level scrutiny is needed" .... Or "eyes plus awareness that bikes normally slow down when on the flat / going uphill *without being pedalled*"?
"West Midlands Police is exploring alternative methods of spotting illegal e-motorbike use" Somebody please tell them easiest way to 'spot' would be the rider's going faster than any typical cyclist for the conditions. And if the rider isn't even pedalling - well bang to rights, innit? Or if they're scouring popular stops for Deliveroo etc. couriers, just look for the throttle.
Motorists cause considerable delays to cyclists in cities and towns.
And even in the apology statement they call him a driver 🤦♂️
That sounds like work, though.
I was quite disturbed by this story yesterday and I'm glad that it seems to be getting resolved a bit. Presumably the bike looked fairly standard and was not covered in gaffer, with tern graphics, so surely one quick web search would have shown the ridiculous expense of this machine (you pay for quality mind...) hinting at it's full legality in unmodified state and preventing this embarrassment through incompetence.
@GoodWheelHunting Or indeed if the person had a white skin I doubt the police would even have got a chance to hear their accent as they wouldn't have bothered him. As I stated on the original thread, contrary to the opinion of a certain PBU and others, one doesn't have to have an agenda or a chip on one's shoulder to know that if Mrs Fortescue-Smythe had ridden her £6K Tern past the officers with Henry and Jemima on the back on their way to school there's not a chance in a billion that they would have stopped her and accused her of having an illegal machine.
The rider can clearly be heard telling the police to take it for a ride and see... That's all they had to do - listen and act on a concerned citizen's request. No malice my arse!
31 thoughts on ““Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches… motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens”: BBC radio discussion looks at third-party reporting; “Long-overdue”: Cyclists rejoice at plan for traffic-free Cheddar Gorge + more on the live blog”
‘It’s unfathomable’: speed
‘It’s unfathomable’: speed hump saboteurs join Italy’s pro-car vandals
First cameras were torn down by someone calling themselves Fleximan – now traffic calming measures are being targeted
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/italy-pro-car-vandals-speed-hump-saboteurs-fleximan-dossoman
Bicycles are vehicles.
Bicycles are vehicles.
“What is it about cyclists filming and reporting road offences which causes outrage when the majority of reports to the police come from cameras within vehicles?”
should be
“What is it about cyclists filming and reporting road offences which causes outrage when the majority of reports to the police come from drivers?”
mitsky wrote:
I absolutely agree with your point – and your redraft is better even without the accurate ‘vehicle’ pedantry.
But as I can’t resist a bit of pedantry myself, the first version was still accurate as cyclists’ cameras are either on their vehicle or their person, not ‘within’ their vehicle.
It’s simple. Drivists are
It’s simple. Drivists are inside a metal box so they are protected You don’t know for certain which cars have cameras and which ones don’t. There is still a level of anonymity there. Cyclists are exposed and an easy target. Cameras are mounted externally, either on the bars or more commonly on top of the helmet, in clear view.
I wonder if drivists
I wonder if drivists sometimes forget that there are other drivists inside those big metal boxes, so cyclists are exposed (though still not properly human, obviously) and an easy target.
They certainly remember if
They certainly remember if there’s a collision or a close call.
I had someone attempt to open my door because I didn’t let them squeeze their banger in to a queue of slow moving traffic. It wasn’t safe and I wasn’t able. He accellerated hard out of the side road to try and aggressively force through. And bacause he failed and we were all coming to a stop he parked alongside and got out trying to threaten me. But my car has automatic external locking so the moment I drive off nobody can open the doors from outside. My young child was also present. He eventually just sped off and tried to force his way in further up the queue. Just a shame there were no coppers to see.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
I don’t think you’re right. Cameras on bikes are often lights or other pieces of kit, so not necessarily any easier to see.
Agree. I see a lot of
Agree. I see a lot of motobike riders with cameras on their helmets though.
Helmet on camera is a
Helmet on camera is a significant risk and not allowed on circuits because helmets are designed and tested for use without any attachments. They cannot perform as tested with attachments and seriously increase the risk of neck injury.
Camera mounts on the tank are also a banned hazard due to the history of serious injuries caused to riders.
Fixed to the chassis or bodywork with a backup tether is the minimum.
The only successful body worn camera is chest mounted for action cameras. That tends to be protected by the instinctive reaction to curl up, assuming that a back protector is also worn.
Given the ever shrinking electronics you might expect smaller cameras but pencil cameras seem to be expensive and not very robust. So not robust enough for real life…
Agreed, I ride with a 10x10cm
Agreed, I ride with a 10x10cm squared PassPixi camera sign, and people still drive around me completely cluelessly not noticing it.
I think it’s simply most of these people don’t see not leaving enough space to a cyclist, or using a phone in a car, as a crime, which are the bulk of cyclist dashcam submissions.
Whilst car dash cams are always of that dangerous driving or crashing into things variety, which most of these people view as higher level and worthy of reporting.
Essex Stats Jan
Essex Stats Jan
Yep so close passes form the
Yep so close passes form the bulk of cyclist submissions, and we can guarantee the majority of non cyclists see close passes as trivial.
Hence the difference in attitudes to cycle cammers v drivers with dash cams
I humbly suggest that
I humbly suggest that avoidance is better than education or enforcement both of which are hard and uncertain.
Spending £100s on camera and the effort to report is much more expensive and risky than getting a one pound white plastic tube fitted to the seatpost perpendicular to the top tube on the offside. 1.5M long provides the spacially challenged with clarity on the minimum separation to a vulnerable road user.
It’s supposed to look strange and result in wide passes, usually in the adjacent lane.
Results are good and occasional challenges enable a frank discussion about the road danger caused by irresponsible road users.
I have 2 cameras on my bike.
I have 2 cameras on my bike. A Garmin Virb front and GoPro hero on the rear. I also have a Garmin Varia on the saddle. Both my cars have Nextbase dashcams on. I have not once had to use my bike cams to report poor road users but I’ve sent off car footage to the police twice. One of a taxi going through a red light that nearly caused a collision. I also had the footage of a driver reversing into my car in a car park. It was only cosmetic but they paid for the respray on the bumper. I see more and more cam footage from cars than bikes yet cyclists seem to be the target. Maybe those complaining should realise that their behaviour is the problem not the cameras.
This whole culture of calling
This whole culture of calling people snitches is ludicrous. Are we talking about Merseyside gang wars here or something?
People will piss and moan about insurance costs rising but when efforts are put in place to try and reduce incidents on the roads ie using phones while driving or aggressive behaviour the same people will talk about grasses recording law breakers. Seriously ! WTF do they want?
If cameras help save one death or serious injury or discourage these knobhead who put other road users in danger they are worth every penny. To those who call cyclist or drivers with cameras on grasses – go f**k yourselves. I hope you get a lengthy ban and big fine if you get caught.
I think a lot of the
I think a lot of the criticism of cyclist’s reports are of phone use in slow or stationary traffic which many motorists wrongly see as ok.
Some drivers need to learn
Some drivers need to learn the letter of the law in regards to motoring offences. And shouldn’t be allowed to drive until they do.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
Some drivers???? Your comment applies to almost every driver, they are particularly adept at picking and choosing which bits of the law apply to them, and when.
It just underplays the level
It just underplays the level of distraction – I reply that distracted driving leads to KSIs and increased insurance premiums for all.
I got this punishment pass when I challenged a driver blocking the junction whilst engrossed in his mobile phone. NFA as the numberplate did not exist on the new vehicle database for a number of weeks
“Cyclists with cameras are
“Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches… motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens”
I presume that is the same as
“A motorist at 20mph is carefully driving with care and consideration, whereas a cyclist at 20 mph is dangerously speeding and out of control.”
Unless there is a mgif car
Unless there is a mgif car behind the cyclist, at which point he is crawling along, holding everybody up.
That nicky campbell clip was
That nicky campbell clip was still going after 30 mins.
Not very illuminating other than providing a platform for the taxi spokesman to say cyclists are unaccountable and using your phone in stationary traffic is ok.
He had no answer to Dave Sherry who said “it’s all in your own hands”.
The worst part was a caller talking about vigilantes and Nicky Campbell describing submiters as vigilantes – neither was challenged.
Nothing on the level of distraction that phone use causes nor the effects that last 20 -30 seconds after the phone is put down.
I did learn that sitting in a car for 10-15 minutes queuing is boring and so using a phone is ok as is the need to use a phone to tell someone you are running late. When did people become a slave to a phone?
Of course people don’t really
Of course people don’t really need to text someone to tell them they are running late. The wonders of modern technology mean you can have your location shared. In my case I have mine shared with my brother via Google maps and also livetrack on my Garmin. If my brother is at home he can see exactly how I’m progressing on my commute and thus when I’m likely to arrive home. No need to send any messages. Very handy for timing dinner so that it is on the plate as I walk through the door!
I can’t stand Nicky Campbell.
I can’t stand Nicky Campbell.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for sharing that.
“Hello Google”
“Hello Google”
“Send text message to wife”
“I’m running late”
“Send”
No need to touch the phone…..
London could introduce SUV
London could introduce SUV parking charge, Sadiq Khan indicates
Mayor says he will monitor Paris’s plan to triple levies for large vehicles and could copy policy if it cuts emissions and pollution
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/02/london-could-introduce-suv-parking-charge-sadiq-khan-indicates
My suggested response to
My suggested response to anyone complaining about cyclists using cameras:
“Grass?
That is the language of criminals.
Your reaction/comment appears to indicate that you condone this sort of behaviour/dangerous driving.
So you are ok with people being hurt and killed by dangerous drivers?
And are you also ok with the costs of crashes being shared by EVERONE ELSE through higher insurance premiums due to the actions of dangerous drivers?
No…? So You are going to retract your comments?
I won’t hold my breath.
Also, what about doorbell cameras?
If you had footage of a criminal doing something illegal but not on your property would you “grass”/”snitch” or stay silent and allow crime in your area to increase?”
Here’s another ‘grassing’
Here’s another ‘grassing’ doorbell camera
Nothing quite makes my Friday
Nothing quite makes my Friday like seeing Alistair green on road.cc. I’d highly recommend his back catalogue to anyone who likes a bit of cringe
Just a comment on the French
Just a comment on the French court case involving two motorists attacking cyclists. The report that you quoted from The Connexion reported wasn’t quite exact. Other French media reports the pair were sentenced to two years imprisonment of which only one year was suspended. The remaining one year of prison will almost certainly be served at home with an electronic bracelet, as is possible in France for short prison sentences. Note as well, both had their driving licences cancelled but can repass the test in six months time, which probably means they will be back on the roads before the summer is out.