We got wind of BBC Radio 5 Live's Nicky Campbell hosting a segment during his Thursday show about reporting third-party helmet camera and dash-cam footage to the police so, naturally, thought we'd check it out and report back...
To our delight (and relief) there were some quite interesting and sensible points raised as listeners called and texted in, while Campbell spoke to Bryn Brooker, head of road safety at Nextbase (the dash-cam brand behind the Nextbase reporting portal).
Introduced with an 'Accidental Partridge'-worthy Campbell scrambling to get through to his guest... "Hi Bryn, are you there for me, Bryn? For everyone? Ready to go? Bryn? Bring on Bryn! Are you there Bryn? HELLO! YAY!"... the presenter went on to read out a text from a listener, Ally in Newcastle: "Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches... motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens doing their civic duty. Symptomatic of all our transport policies really"
That's enough material for this entire blog post, to be honest. An interesting point. As per Nextbase's own figures, more than 33,500 videos were submitted to police via the National Dash Cam Safety Portal in 2023 up until the end of November, a 30 per cent increase on the same period in 2022, most apparently coming from dash-cams.
And yet, any length of time looking at the topic in the sewers of social media will find accusations of 'grassing' and 'snitching' labelled at cyclists who do so. Less so about the other road users who do the similar. In fact, camera cyclists' bad rap even reached the Britain's Got Talent stage in 2022 as comedian, and eventual winner, Axel Blake made it past the auditions with his cyclist bit, prompting judge Amanda Holden to weigh in on cyclists with cameras that are "asking for trouble". So, for starters, why? What is it about cyclists filming and reporting road offences which causes outrage when the majority of reports to the police come from cameras within vehicles?
Speaking on the wider third-party reporting point, Nextbase's head of safety said: "In five years over 100,000 offences have been reported and personally I've seen this making a real difference, enabling the police to take action on dangerous drivers. For me this people doing their civic duty. If you see a dangerous driver driving recklessly, almost causing a collision, then I think most people want to do something about that."
"The police are being inundated," came Campbell's reply...
"The police are actually finding this is saving time, the great thing about the portal is it was set up with the police and traditionally if you take a piece of footage to the police they would have to fill out a witness statement, take time to fill it out. With the system that's been set up that statement is taken automatically, so all they're asked to do is look at the footage. Is action required? Yes or no. If it is the witness statement is already there, ready to go.
> Here's what to do if you capture a near miss, close pass or collision on camera while cycling
"Actually, we calculated that over the last five years it saved an estimated 91 years of police time..."
Campbell reacted: "Oh, that's an extraordinary stat... an interesting interpretation of what some people are saying is just a mountain of extra stuff for police... but, it makes sense..."
"If you think about it," Nextbase's Brooker replied. "People have got phones and dash-cams. Evidence exists. Before this portal existed the police did have to go to people's houses to collect the data or people had to fill in a witness statement manually. That time is saved and it allows them to go and do other things."
The full episode is here, the discussion about cameras and third-party reporting coming just after the hour mark...
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Just a comment on the French court case involving two motorists attacking cyclists. The report that you quoted from The Connexion reported wasn't quite exact. Other French media reports the pair were sentenced to two years imprisonment of which only one year was suspended. The remaining one year of prison will almost certainly be served at home with an electronic bracelet, as is possible in France for short prison sentences. Note as well, both had their driving licences cancelled but can repass the test in six months time, which probably means they will be back on the roads before the summer is out.
Nothing quite makes my Friday like seeing Alistair green on road.cc. I'd highly recommend his back catalogue to anyone who likes a bit of cringe
My suggested response to anyone complaining about cyclists using cameras:
"Grass?
That is the language of criminals.
Your reaction/comment appears to indicate that you condone this sort of behaviour/dangerous driving.
So you are ok with people being hurt and killed by dangerous drivers?
And are you also ok with the costs of crashes being shared by EVERONE ELSE through higher insurance premiums due to the actions of dangerous drivers?
No…? So You are going to retract your comments?
I won't hold my breath.
Also, what about doorbell cameras?
If you had footage of a criminal doing something illegal but not on your property would you "grass"/"snitch" or stay silent and allow crime in your area to increase?"
Here's another 'grassing' doorbell camera
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That nicky campbell clip was still going after 30 mins.
Not very illuminating other than providing a platform for the taxi spokesman to say cyclists are unaccountable and using your phone in stationary traffic is ok.
He had no answer to Dave Sherry who said "it's all in your own hands".
The worst part was a caller talking about vigilantes and Nicky Campbell describing submiters as vigilantes - neither was challenged.
Nothing on the level of distraction that phone use causes nor the effects that last 20 -30 seconds after the phone is put down.
I did learn that sitting in a car for 10-15 minutes queuing is boring and so using a phone is ok as is the need to use a phone to tell someone you are running late. When did people become a slave to a phone?
Of course people don't really need to text someone to tell them they are running late. The wonders of modern technology mean you can have your location shared. In my case I have mine shared with my brother via Google maps and also livetrack on my Garmin. If my brother is at home he can see exactly how I'm progressing on my commute and thus when I'm likely to arrive home. No need to send any messages. Very handy for timing dinner so that it is on the plate as I walk through the door!
I can't stand Nicky Campbell.
Thank you for sharing that.
"Hello Google"
"Send text message to wife"
"I'm running late"
"Send"
No need to touch the phone.....
"Cyclists with cameras are grassing snitches... motorists with dash-cams are responsible citizens"
I presume that is the same as
"A motorist at 20mph is carefully driving with care and consideration, whereas a cyclist at 20 mph is dangerously speeding and out of control."
Unless there is a mgif car behind the cyclist, at which point he is crawling along, holding everybody up.
I think a lot of the criticism of cyclist's reports are of phone use in slow or stationary traffic which many motorists wrongly see as ok.
Some drivers need to learn the letter of the law in regards to motoring offences. And shouldn't be allowed to drive until they do.
Some drivers???? Your comment applies to almost every driver, they are particularly adept at picking and choosing which bits of the law apply to them, and when.
It just underplays the level of distraction - I reply that distracted driving leads to KSIs and increased insurance premiums for all.
I got this punishment pass when I challenged a driver blocking the junction whilst engrossed in his mobile phone. NFA as the numberplate did not exist on the new vehicle database for a number of weeks
This whole culture of calling people snitches is ludicrous. Are we talking about Merseyside gang wars here or something?
People will piss and moan about insurance costs rising but when efforts are put in place to try and reduce incidents on the roads ie using phones while driving or aggressive behaviour the same people will talk about grasses recording law breakers. Seriously ! WTF do they want?
If cameras help save one death or serious injury or discourage these knobhead who put other road users in danger they are worth every penny. To those who call cyclist or drivers with cameras on grasses - go f**k yourselves. I hope you get a lengthy ban and big fine if you get caught.
Bicycles are vehicles.
"What is it about cyclists filming and reporting road offences which causes outrage when the majority of reports to the police come from cameras within vehicles?"
should be
"What is it about cyclists filming and reporting road offences which causes outrage when the majority of reports to the police come from drivers?"
I absolutely agree with your point - and your redraft is better even without the accurate 'vehicle' pedantry.
But as I can't resist a bit of pedantry myself, the first version was still accurate as cyclists' cameras are either on their vehicle or their person, not 'within' their vehicle.
It's simple. Drivists are inside a metal box so they are protected You don't know for certain which cars have cameras and which ones don't. There is still a level of anonymity there. Cyclists are exposed and an easy target. Cameras are mounted externally, either on the bars or more commonly on top of the helmet, in clear view.
I wonder if drivists sometimes forget that there are other drivists inside those big metal boxes, so cyclists are exposed (though still not properly human, obviously) and an easy target.
They certainly remember if there's a collision or a close call.
I had someone attempt to open my door because I didn't let them squeeze their banger in to a queue of slow moving traffic. It wasn't safe and I wasn't able. He accellerated hard out of the side road to try and aggressively force through. And bacause he failed and we were all coming to a stop he parked alongside and got out trying to threaten me. But my car has automatic external locking so the moment I drive off nobody can open the doors from outside. My young child was also present. He eventually just sped off and tried to force his way in further up the queue. Just a shame there were no coppers to see.
I don't think you're right. Cameras on bikes are often lights or other pieces of kit, so not necessarily any easier to see.
Agree. I see a lot of motobike riders with cameras on their helmets though.
Helmet on camera is a significant risk and not allowed on circuits because helmets are designed and tested for use without any attachments. They cannot perform as tested with attachments and seriously increase the risk of neck injury.
Camera mounts on the tank are also a banned hazard due to the history of serious injuries caused to riders.
Fixed to the chassis or bodywork with a backup tether is the minimum.
The only successful body worn camera is chest mounted for action cameras. That tends to be protected by the instinctive reaction to curl up, assuming that a back protector is also worn.
Given the ever shrinking electronics you might expect smaller cameras but pencil cameras seem to be expensive and not very robust. So not robust enough for real life...
Agreed, I ride with a 10x10cm squared PassPixi camera sign, and people still drive around me completely cluelessly not noticing it.
I think it's simply most of these people don't see not leaving enough space to a cyclist, or using a phone in a car, as a crime, which are the bulk of cyclist dashcam submissions.
Whilst car dash cams are always of that dangerous driving or crashing into things variety, which most of these people view as higher level and worthy of reporting.
Essex Stats Jan
Yep so close passes form the bulk of cyclist submissions, and we can guarantee the majority of non cyclists see close passes as trivial.
Hence the difference in attitudes to cycle cammers v drivers with dash cams
I humbly suggest that avoidance is better than education or enforcement both of which are hard and uncertain.
Spending £100s on camera and the effort to report is much more expensive and risky than getting a one pound white plastic tube fitted to the seatpost perpendicular to the top tube on the offside. 1.5M long provides the spacially challenged with clarity on the minimum separation to a vulnerable road user.
It's supposed to look strange and result in wide passes, usually in the adjacent lane.
Results are good and occasional challenges enable a frank discussion about the road danger caused by irresponsible road users.
I have 2 cameras on my bike. A Garmin Virb front and GoPro hero on the rear. I also have a Garmin Varia on the saddle. Both my cars have Nextbase dashcams on. I have not once had to use my bike cams to report poor road users but I've sent off car footage to the police twice. One of a taxi going through a red light that nearly caused a collision. I also had the footage of a driver reversing into my car in a car park. It was only cosmetic but they paid for the respray on the bumper. I see more and more cam footage from cars than bikes yet cyclists seem to be the target. Maybe those complaining should realise that their behaviour is the problem not the cameras.
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