Labour reportedly drops plans for nationwide ULEZ rollout

Yes, I'm also interested to see what effect it will have on plate cloning, that's been a thing for years already. 

Could you elaborate please?

Somebody sees a similar make & model of vehicle either online or physically to the one they use. They have plates made the same*. They then drive around with gay abandon in a ulez zone (or c charge, speed cameras, car parks, etc). Registered keeper starts getting charges, fines, PCNs and so on through the post over the ensuing months, who in turn spends much of their time communicating with relevant authorities along the lines of "I haven't been to [insert location] for [x] years", hopefully avoiding CCJs and other enforcement action but in some cases, difficult to prove. After a while, the cloned plate will get itself onto the ANPR database, where at best the police will do sod all, and at worst, the owner of the original plate will get pulled over from time to time. At some point the user of the cloned plate will repeat the process with another one, rinse, repeat. 
This happened to me in the early 2000s when much of the UK became a speed camera showroom, fortunately I was able to deal with it and it's not happened since. I ended up sending a copy invoice showing I was on site at a customer in Weymouth and couldn't have been in Ilford. Others I know have had the same, mostly car parks and speed cameras but I can see it happening with ulez. 

* current legislation says it's "impossible" to have a set of plates made without ID and V5, but that's only "legally made" - you don't have to look that far to acquire other. 

Round these parts they have a simpler (and possibly more ethical) solution - just drive around with no plates. Plod doesn't seem to notice or care.

current legislation says it's "impossible" to have a set of plates made without ID and V5, but that's only "legally made" - you don't have to look that far to acquire other

Won't somebody think of the manufacturers of legal number plates? They must be having a thin time of it in Lancashire. And what about the impoverished workers at DVLA- currently unable to even record online VED which has actually been paid since 1st August, presumably because of the lack of cash coming in from VED which hasn't been paid?

Hmm.  Ok, thanks 

Happened to me too, in the ULEZ era.

I was amazed to find that the various private companies managing parking and LTN penalties were entirely reasonable. I sent them photographs of my car which was the same make, model, and a similar colour to the at least two cloned vehicles, but with subtle differences, and they cancelled the penalties immediately.

The DVLA and the Met Police on the other hand were each keen to insist that it was nothing to do with them, and the other would sort it out l.

Had similar happen to me once. Thankfully they actually stole my plates (rather than clone them) so I already had a crime reference before the charges started arriving, and they put them on a totally different car.   

mark1a wrote:

Yes, I'm also interested to see what effect it will have on plate cloning, that's been a thing for years already. 

It's certainly had an effect on plate cleaning in London, very common to see gleaming BMWs and Mercedes with absolutely filthy indecipherable numberplates.

I own a few properties in London and have sold quite a few over the years. Schools influence price more than anything - in my experience. And also LTNs push up house prices. In the 'old days' they were called quiet roads or no through roads. But if there is considerable through traffic then prices Go down. But anyone can see that. 

BIRMINGHAMisaDUMP wrote:

I own a few properties in London and have sold quite a few over the years. Schools influence price more than anything - in my experience. And also LTNs push up house prices. In the 'old days' they were called quiet roads or no through roads. But if there is considerable through traffic then prices Go down. But anyone can see that. 

But..."15 minute cities are an evil plot"

Why would it? Its not very expensive to have a car that meets the spec. 

AidanR wrote:

It's good to see that the closer they get to power, the more that Labour avoids upsetting the Daily Mail. Come next year they'll have swung far enough to the right that they will be indistinguishable from the current Tory party.

Tory-lite

hawkinspeter wrote:

AidanR wrote:

It's good to see that the closer they get to power, the more that Labour avoids upsetting the Daily Mail. Come next year they'll have swung far enough to the right that they will be indistinguishable from the current Tory party.

Tory-lite

To quote George Galloway "Two cheeks of the same arse."

mark1a wrote:

To quote George Galloway "Two cheeks of the same arse."

And our man Georgeous George in the middle...

Still, did enjoy him sticking it to Alastair Campbell and the warmongers in the US back when - though they'd sunk so far it was impossible not to micturate on them from a height.

I don't agree with everything he says but I do enjoy listening. A great orator and as you say, his performance in the US Senate (they probably expected a slam-dunk owning a British MP) was a masterpiece.

AidanR wrote:

Come next year they'll have swung far enough to the right that they will be indistinguishable from the current Tory party.

Your powers of observation must be more acute than mine: I can detect no difference now.

Everyone rolls out this old saw whenever Labour looks in danger of actually winning an election, but in the post-Thatcher era it hasn't come close to winning when (1983 and 2019 spring most readily to mind) it has run on a manifesto it has promoted as markedly left-wing.

People don't vote, in the right numbers or places, for left-wing parties at general elections at the moment (a nigh-on 50-year moment). You can blame this on the media or FFP or working-class false consciousness, but that doesn't change the results according to the rules we currently have. If Labour wants to win (and for the first time in a while it looks like it does), it needs to appeal to voters who rightly or wrongly are wary of 70s-80s-style "loony left" antics. That means capturing at least some of the actual centre ground, even if that is to the right of the centre of middle-class Labour people on the internet (and I am one of them). 

Galloway is a repulsive grifter currently pandering to Islamists for money and influence, and his knack for turning a phrase disguises that. A centrist Labour is not the same as the Tories: it's better, even if it's not as good as people like us/me say we want. Howard and Hague would have led worse governments than Blair did. Major did lead a worse government than Kinnock would have. And another Sunak government will be worse than a Starmer one would be. 

There's a real choice, and it's a meaningful one for people (mostly not us) who will be at the sharp end. Fake nostalgia and pretended idealism can deliver yet another Tory government if we're not careful, and we'll learn the hard way that one of the cheeks is considerably smellier than the other. 

Even if they were interested (they apparently aren't) likely too busy dealing with grumpy populace (strikes, protests), debts (Brexit, pandemic payback, Ukraine) and rising costs (inflation, Ukraine again).  Any spare time will presumably be spent replacing the dark blue furniture left behind by the previous folks and replacing it with red less blue stuff.

But they'll see the income from it, and eagerly welcome it into their coffers

belugabob wrote:

But they'll see the income from it, and eagerly welcome it into their coffers

Just as the Tories (who are of course against the war on the motorist) presumably welcomed the funds into the TfL coffers from the extension of the operation of the congestion charge, extension of the ULEZ to the North and South Circular and the now abandoned plan to impose a boundary entry charge on cars visitng London, all conditions they imposed on TfL in return for bailout funding to cover the 90% fares shortfall in the pandemic.

Rendel Harris wrote:

belugabob wrote:

But they'll see the income from it, and eagerly welcome it into their coffers

Just as the Tories (who are of course against the war on the motorist) presumably welcomed the funds into the TfL coffers from the extension of the operation of the congestion charge, extension of the ULEZ to the North and South Circular and the now abandoned plan to impose a boundary entry charge on cars visitng London, all conditions they imposed on TfL in return for bailout funding to cover the 90% fares shortfall in the pandemic.

For sure - I'm not expressing a preference for either party. Just being cynical about the political motives, in general. It's this pussyfooting around which has prevented anti-pollution action from being taken earlier and now that more Draconian action is taken (in an attempt to catch up) the public are - somewhat understandably - upset, so the politicians double down on the pussyfooting, in a desperate attempt to gain power.