Jeremy Vine and Laurence Fox clash over riding two abreast video; Will Carling's two pennies; Overtaking lessons with Cycling Mikey; Jason Kenny undecided on retirement; A closer look at Sebastian Vettel's bike; Penny Farthing epic + more on the live blog

I think we need to have a proper debate about road safety, for example dispelling myths like its safe to overtake a single cyclist by straddling the centre line with oncoming traffic, yet apparently unsafe to do the same when passing cyclists two abreast.

However, Twatter is not the place to have a debate about anything as it's populated by loons shouting into an abyss.

PRSboy wrote:

Twatter is not the place to have a debate about anything as it's populated by loons shouting into an abyss.

Private Eye have called it "the hate farm". For me, that's up there with TheRegister calling eBay "the online tat bazaar".

That we may do,but I dont think Vine is posting much of this stuff to promote proper debates, it feels more about he uses it to boost his twitter analytics scores as it guarantees a whole bunch of interactions.

Imo anyway Twitter is given way too much prominence as a platform given it's user base size.

alexb wrote:

Whenever someone comments on how dangerous cyclists are around horses, I think it's worth remembering how utterly terrifying horses actually are at times! I always pass slow and wide and ask the rider if it's safe to do so beforehand.

Reminds me of when Bath and North East Somerset wanted to allow horses on the Bristol-Bath path, and after cyclists had found out about it, they didn't consult with anyone except horse riders, they had a council meeting to discuss it and allowed the public to make presentations.  I did and pointed out that one of their own employees had been recently killed by a horse while riding his bike, for which I was roundly criticised.

If you ride a horse in public you should be able to control it, not expect other perfectly legal road users to dismount because you can't.

eburtthebike wrote:

alexb wrote:

Whenever someone comments on how dangerous cyclists are around horses, I think it's worth remembering how utterly terrifying horses actually are at times! I always pass slow and wide and ask the rider if it's safe to do so beforehand.

Reminds me of when Bath and North East Somerset wanted to allow horses on the Bristol-Bath path, and after cyclists had found out about it, they didn't consult with anyone except horse riders, they had a council meeting to discuss it and allowed the public to make presentations.  I did and pointed out that one of their own employees had been recently killed by a horse while riding his bike, for which I was roundly criticised.

If you ride a horse in public you should be able to control it, not expect other perfectly legal road users to dismount because you can't.

I used to live near a stables and my sister was a keen rider at one time. I was out walking my dog once when a pony with a very young rider was spooked by a passing bus. The poor animal actually ran into the bus and was seriously injured and broke its leg while the poor kid was traumatised as the pony had to be put down. Horses and ponies can be unpredictable. Some of the riders can be young and inexperienced. Give them space.

OldRidgeback wrote:

Horses and ponies can be unpredictable. Some of the riders can be young and inexperienced. Give them space.

I do and I'm happy to do so, but is it sensible to put unpredictable animals on a path with thousands of cyclists, experienced, novices and children, especially when you've got the tragic example of one of your own employees on a bike being killed by one?

alexb wrote:

Whenever someone comments on how dangerous cyclists are around horses, I think it's worth remembering how utterly terrifying horses actually are at times! I always pass slow and wide and ask the rider if it's safe to do so beforehand.

Even then, about one in twenty times, it's clear that the horse is nervous and the rider might not have proper control of the horse, which is very unnerving in country lanes or bridlepaths. 

Where horses are approaching on bridlepaths I usually stop and dismount the bike, but it's clear that the horses are often spooked by bicycles.

 

which is odd because the horses on dartmoor and in the new forest couldn't care less about cyclists.

So why do the horsey people only chose to ride the skitish ones on the road? Do they train them to be nervous? Or is it only the nervous ones that will accept being ridden?

It really annoys me when I hear cyclists talking about horse riders in the same ignorant belittling tone that others use for cyclists.

Sriracha wrote:

It really annoys me when I hear cyclists talking about horse riders in the same ignorant belittling tone that others use for cyclists.

Perhaps if you could give an example of where a cyclist has been "ignorant" or "belittling" of horse riders, I'd take you seriously.

IanMK wrote:

I get on well with horse riders. Try to share a few words with them or at least a wave. However, LF had one bad experience with a group of cyclists "several years ago" and presumably since then has had no positive interaction with cyclists at all. Either, he doesn't ride much, which would account for his innability to control the horse, or  he now has selective memory, presumably caused by landing on his head. Given the other shite that this troll spouts I think the latter is more likely.

Of course, the other possibility is that he's just making shit up.....

No, I believe him. Although I suspect the horse he was riding was several along with a pack of hounds chasing a fox and the "Mamils" were animal rights activists trying to disrupt the hunt. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

No, I believe him. Although I suspect the horse he was riding was several along with a pack of hounds chasing a fox and the "Mamils" were animal rights activists trying to disrupt the hunt. 

Clearly the hounds were chasing the wrong fox.....

I think this twitterer summed him up for me:
So we should respect horse riders more and cyclists less - is that your argument?
https://twitter.com/uraballoonson/status/1424387946459848706?s=20

I also get on well with horse riders and vice versa I hope.

There was an item in local news last week about police booking speeding motorists on a country road near Dunham Park.   There were many below the line responses from horse riders complaining about inconsiderate motorists, no mention of problems with cyclists though.

Likewise, never - and I do mean never ever - had a problem with horses or their riders.

I take the view that horses are not machines and can be expected to be a bit skittish, although most are not. And sometimes they have young riders - I think it's great that youngsters should be able to get out and ride - on a bike or a horse.

So I make allowances. It's nobody's fault if you are the first cyclist they have seen on the road. If you have to give up on your KOM, so be it.

Kapelmuur wrote:

I also get on well with horse riders and vice versa I hope.

There was an item in local news last week about police booking speeding motorists on a country road near Dunham Park.   There were many below the line responses from horse riders complaining about inconsiderate motorists, no mention of problems with cyclists though.

There really isn't a problem between cyclists and horse riders. It's just the usual Daily Heil culture war bollocks.
Drivers kill over 30 horses a year with their shit driving, cyclists zero.

Drivers kill over 30 horses a year with their shit driving, cyclists zero

I can't vouch for the first figure, but the second is highly believable. I'm going right off Fox- he seems to be a Grade A nutter. Many of us recall the video on here of a car on a left-hand bend coming towards the camera, but the driver was travelling fast and veered onto his RH lane and hit a horse correctly positioned going in the opposite direction. Wasn't one of the 2 horses put down?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-40134629

IanMK wrote:

......or  he now has selective memory, presumably caused by landing on his head.

That would have had no affect; landing on his ass however.........

eburtthebike wrote:

IanMK wrote:

......or  he now has selective memory, presumably caused by landing on his head.

That would have had no affect; landing on his ass however.........

would impair his ability to speak?

Me also. Even with the piles of shit, I'm more than happy to see horse riders out on the same roads that I ride for leisure. 4 legged mobile road blocks reminding drivers to slow down and maybe think about what might be round the next unsighted corner. Unlike a collision with a cyclist no-one gets sympathy for driving into a horse as "a bit of bad luck".

My one bad experience with horses was as a runner when 3 riders thought it excellent fun to gallop their horses through a group of runners from behind. That was pretty scarey being close to all those flailing hooves.

IanMK wrote:

I get on well with horse riders. Try to share a few words with them or at least a wave. 

Totally agree, I warn riders in advance if catching them up from behind and will always check if the horses are okay with flashing day lights (and will cover them up anyway). Most riders are happy to exchange pleasantries as we pass. We're all out enjoying the quieter roads.

The man get a few column inches in the usual right leaning rags and barely managed to get more votes than Count Binface in the London Mayoral elections. 

Not sure I call that getting taken seriously....

He got fewer votes than the guy promising to reduce the price of Freddo Frog chocolates. But he still gets invited onto Newsnight

I doubt that he would get those invites if he had been to a comprehensive school.

See the article in the Guardian/Observer yesterday about public schools....him and his ilk are the perfect examples.