“So much anger at evidence”: Chris Boardman hits back at “nasty troll” accusing him of “pushing ideals on public”; Roglič says he didn’t want to win stage… after winning Vuelta stage; Sarah Storey makes history at Paralympics + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
BBC “sorry” cyclist “did not appreciate” headline branding crash which saw drink driver kill ice hockey star and brother while cycling a “car accident”
The BBC has apologised for its use of the word ‘accident’ in a headline and story concerning the deaths last week of US ice hockey star Johnny Gaudreau and his brother Matthew, killed while cycling by a suspected drink driver who allegedly told police at the scene that he had consumed “five to six beers” before the fatal crash.
Responding to a complaint from a reader, who described the vocabulary used in the article as “biased and incorrect”, the broadcaster said that it was “sorry if you did not appreciate how we chose to cover this issue initially”, noting that the headline had since been changed to clarify that the Gaudreau brothers had been killed in a “bike and car crash”, while removing all references to an ‘accident’.
The apology comes two years after the BBC defended its use of ‘accident’ when describing road traffic collisions, with the broadcaster telling one Radio 4 listener that “we try to use language that ordinary people use, not the language contained in reports and documents”.
“If this is the standard Philipsen would never have had a stage win so far”: Fans perplexed over Pau Miquel’s relegation from Vuelta a España stage podium for deviating from his line during sprint, calling it a “joke decision”
After three stage wins at La Vuelta — the joint most any team has so far — it’s safe to say Equipo Kern Pharma has not only conquered the brutal Spanish terrains this September, but also fans’ hearts.
And when Urko Berrade crossed the finish line yesterday, with an amazing late attack six kilometres from the line, dropping his breakaway companions, with teammates Pau Miquel finishing third and two-time stage winner at this Vuelta, Pablo Castrillo finishing in the top 10, there was a sense of collective admiration before the final two mountain stages to determine who takes the red jersey to the time trial in Madrid.
However, later last night, the UCI announced that Miquel was relegated for “deviation from the chosen line that obstructs or endangers another rider”, the rider being Jayco-AlUla’s Mauro Schmid.
Apparently, Pau Miquel was relegated from his 3rd place because of sprint deviation. WTF?! Joke decision. 🤡 He didn’t hinder anyone there. #lavuelta24pic.twitter.com/7qEI8vKyr6
— Mihai Simion (@faustocoppi60) September 5, 2024
But watching back the replays a few dozen times now, neither I nor many other fans have been able to figure out at what point did Miquel deviate from his line, raising doubts whether the said infringement happened before the riders turned the corner in the background, which was perhaps missed by the broadcast cameras that were instead focused on the winner Berrade.
And the lack of transparency from the sport’s governing body has led to some frustration amongst fans, with many baffled by the announcement, some even calling it a “joke decision”.
Some reaction from social media:
- “If this is a relegation, there will never be a sprint without relegations anymore.”
- “This is a joke, right?”
- “Ridiculous. They don’t even know how to apply their own rules. 0 common sense. he didn’t endanger schmidt and there wasn’t even a real deviation. 100 times of season they ignore blatant stuff and then they punish this non-event.”
- “Ridiculous. If this is the standard Philipsen would never have had a stage win so far.”
Even more, the reaction from the decision has once again circled back to Alpecin-Deceuninck’s sprinter and winner of the points jersey at the Tour de France last year Jasper Philipsen’s sprinting style, which has been called into question several times over the last couple years, in instances where he’s pushed, or at least appeared to push opponents into the barrier, deviating from his line in bunch sprint finishes.
"Perfect example of how nine cyclists take up way less space than nine cars!"
Perfect example of how 9 cyclists take up way less space than 9 cars!
Imagine the road congestion, emissions, and noise if everyone here was driving instead of biking.
Cities need more bike lanes to make this the norm, not the exception.
🚲💚🚲💚🚲💚🚲 pic.twitter.com/UqrDGpgcBS
— Francesca Savage 🚲💕 (@francesca_kms) September 5, 2024
Questions asked as speeding suspended driver kills French cyclist in “125mph” hit-and-run crash after hiring Lamborghini without valid driving licence
The fatal collision took place at around 1pm on 1 September in Avignon, in southwestern France’s Provence region, as the 25-year-old motorist was driving at “high speed” on the departmental RD907 road outside the city often used by cyclists, and at “well over” the 70kph speed limit, according to French police and several witnesses.
The motorist appears to have hired the powerful supercar through social media without disclosing that he is banned from driving until December.
The greatest of all time? Dame Sarah Storey defies late scare to win 19th Paralympic gold medal in a thrilling sprint finish in cycling road race
The greatest of all time, surely?
Great Britain’s most successful Paralympian Dame Sarah Storey has added another page to her legacy with a 19th Paralympic gold medal after winning the thrilling cycling road race in Paris.
Storey, who had claimed a gold in individual time trial earlier this week on the “appalling” course in Paris, has now beat France’s Heidi Gaugain — 27 years younger than Storey — in a sprint finish, to become the C4-5 Paralympic champion, while Colombia’s Paula Oss took bronze on the 71km Parisian circuit .
With just under 2km to go, Gaugain attacked on the final climb and initially looked to have created a decisive gap over the 46-year-old British cyclist. However, she was caught in the dying moments by Storey, who did just enough in the sprint to beat her and clinch gold, making it her 30th medal across nine Games
“It’s amazing, really amazing – I’m just delighted that my wheel was in front at the finish,” said Storey. “The lap before a coach of hers [Gaugain] shouted from the other side of the road, ‘next lap on the left’, so I had a look where we were to make sure I was ready for that. He shouted, ‘go’ and I went too.
“Heidi took a little bit of a gap, which is fine because that’s a big acceleration that she’d made; I had a little bit of speed because I was trying to preempt it and then it was just a matter of holding her while she continued her acceleration.
“It was a long way out but it was the only tactic she could use because I have the faster sprint. And then, when we were together in that final corner, that’s when I unleashed it. She tried to come again. I could see her furiously pedalling feet but I threw my bike and it was mine.”
“I knew Heidi would want to attack and I was happy to take it to the line as the fastest sprinter in the group,” she told Channel 4. “It played out perfectly.”
On the prospect of aiming for a 20th gold in Los Angeles at the age of 50 in four years time, Storey was coy, saying: “Who knows? I need to enjoy this first.”
Either way, if this is to be her last Paralympics, what a way to go out… Chapeau, Sarah!
ICYMI: We're looking for riders for the Zwift Racing League!
Are you wanting to race on Zwift, and looking for a team? We’re hoping to put one together for the Winter season. There’s almost certainly going to be a team of ordinary choppers in the C category, as that’s what many of us are! But if you’re interested in another category of racing, stick your name in this neat little form and we’ll see where we are. We’ll be in the Open EMEAW Eastern league, which is an 1845 start in the UK.
Meanwhile, don’t forget to check out Dave’s feature on all the things you need to know about the virtual-riding platform as it turns 10.
Hey there, road.cc, your "very popular online international cycling news site" is famous now!
As Andy Warhol said (not really), “everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes”. I guess this definitely is eating up some minutes out of our 15…
In case you missed this astonishing piece of infrastructure from Cork, that is a three-yard bike lane which propels you head-first into a planter — something even astonishing by our often ludicrous standards, Ryan featured it on the live blog earlier this week, even awarding it the prestigious ‘Rubbish cycling infrastructure of the day’ award. (The jury’s still out on today’s recipient)
And now, local news website Cork Beo has decided to feature us for featuring the city’s infrastructure, in their piece: “Fame for Cork’s crazy ‘3 yard bike lane that sends you head-first into a planter’”, with the strapline reading: “International cycling forum shares Leeside’s shortest stretch of active travel route”
Wait, do they mean us? Surely they can’t mean us!
Well, our curiosities piqued and our team’s experienced, highly-skilled-in-journalism eyes eager to find out the deal, lo and behold, it was your beloved cycling website which had made it into Cork Beo…
In their words: “Now Leeside’s craziest bit of active travel infrastructure is gaining ‘fans’ abroad after being highlighted by the popular What If Cork? Twitter account, which often highlights some of the more… unusual… choices made by Cork City Council, as well as offering ideas and solutions.
“Their tweet on the Pine Street bike lane was picked up by the very popular online international cycling news site road.cc, which shared the pic and story of the Pine Stret infrastructure with their huge online following.
“The site said they could ‘just imagine the conversation that went on in Cork City Council when the city’s MacCurtain Street Public Realm scheme – which aims to provide “significantly improved options for walking, cycling, and public transport” – was being planned.
“‘So, we’ll stick a cycle lane in, but we’ll make it the smallest cycle lane imaginable, and then all of a sudden, boom, you’re back on the footway. Oh, and we should stick a giant planter right at the end of the tiny cycle lane, just for laughs.’
“The online cycling news forum did note that cyclists in Cork had been generally positive about changes ushered in by the huge MacCurtain Street public realm project and that the council has been making a big effort across the city to try and make Leeside more cycle-friendly.”
Well, glad you liked that Cork Beo! We’ll ask Ryan to hire some security when he goes to watch a gig in Cork next year, after all, he’s a celeb now!
Cyclists say they are being forced “into direct conflict with drivers” by holding up traffic or onto pavement with pedestrians, as petition calls on council to rethink “discriminatory, unsafe” decision to scrap cycle lane plans
Cyclists in Torquay have claimed that revamped designs for a regeneration project in the seaside resort are “unsafe and unsuitable”, and will force cyclists either onto the pavement or “into direct conflict with motorists”, as a petition calling on the local council to rethink their plans is set to be discussed next week.
According to the petition, the revisions to Torbay Council’s Harbour Public Realm scheme in Torquay have, by reducing the width of the road but scrapping plans to include a protected cycle lane, “worsened the provision for cyclists and are not acceptable”, and have created infrastructure which will potentially “discriminate” against those who use cycles as mobility aids.
Awkward moment at Tour de Romandie Fémenin
Who’s here for part 249 of the peloton’s supermarket wars?
ALDI ALDI ALDI
ALDI LIDL ALDI
ALDI ALDI ALDI#TDRF2024 pic.twitter.com/y9geugSP5E— Mathew Mitchell (@MatMitchell30) September 6, 2024
Soudal Quick-Step's Paul Magnier wins another stage at Tour of Britain
Although Quick-Step may have had a disastrous day in the Vuelta yesterday with Mikel Landa dropping five places down to tenth position in the general classification, the Belgian team continues its strong showing in the Tour of Britain with Frenchman Paul Magnier winning bagging another stage with a superb, confident sprint, with British rider Ethan Vernon and Uno-X Mobility’s Erlend Blikra coming in second and third, respectively.
Today’s finish at Newark-on-Trent was a thrilling one, with Vernon leading out a few hundred metres before the finish line, but as the road drifted slightly to the right, Magnier came up the narrow gap on Vernon’s left side, “through a mousehole” in his own words, and the 24-year-old from Bedford, perhaps in a sporting manner, decided to not shut the door at the last minute, giving the Frenchman a straight run to the line.
Magnier, who already beat Vernon and Trinity Racing’s Bob Donaldson in the first stage which also concluded in a sprint, now sits at the top of the points classification with 71 points and 21-point lead over overal leader Stevie Williams, and if the last two sprint finishes are anything to go by, it definitely looks like the 20-year-old is becoming a force to reckon with.
Things you absolutely love to see at the Tour of Britain
I’m sure GB News won’t like this image of a young cyclist riding along the Tour of Britain peloton on, erm, what looks like a pavement, but we? You guessed it right, we love it!
💚 Things you absolutely love to see!#TourOfBritain | @LloydsBank | @ilkestoncc pic.twitter.com/U5WhVPNGC3
— Lloyds Bank Tour of Britain (@TourofBritain) September 6, 2024
Disclaimer: road.cc does not endorse cycling on the pavement, just to clarify…
"Only a matter of time": Ben O'Connor surrenders red jersey as Roglič in command of Vuelta with dominant display... but reveals he "didn't need the stage win"
Primož Roglič, David Gaudu, and Mattias Skjelmose: What a podium at stage 19 of Vuelta a España!
But on the other hand, Decathlon AG2R-La Mondiale’s Ben O’Connor, who had so bravely held the red jersey for the last two weeks after his heroics on stage six unassumingly put him in the lead of the race, finally has to surrender it to who else but Roglič, who seemed to have an avalanche of mixed emotions today — obviously pleased to finally be in red and celebrating at the finish line, but also taking some digs at his team, for perhaps doing too much.
The race was blown apart on the penultimate summit finish of Alto de Moncalvillo, a typically brutal Vuelta climb of 8.6km at a 9 per cent gradient, as Dani Martinez, and then Aleksandr Vlasov, set an infernal pace for Roglic as the Red Bull trio including Roglič roared away together.
The Slovenian was dropped off by Vlasov with 5km remaining and set off uninterrupted on his one-man mission to the top, but as he would reveal in the post-race interview to Eurosport, he wasn’t in search of the stage win today.
“I said I don’t need the stage win but some guys I won’t say their name, decided to pull anyway,” Roglič said. “In the end, I had to make a call and I said ok. Then we went for it.”
When asked if the race is now over, Roglič replied: “Not really. The big queen stage is still to come tomorrow – and we don’t do the normal laps in Madrid, we do a time trial, so it’s far from done. But my gap is better than five minutes behind. I’m happy with how I am functioning and I’m happy with the guys.”
😬 It was only a matter of time. Relive the LAST KM thanks to @CarrefourES!
Era solo cuestión de tiempo para Primoz. 🔥 ¡Revive el ÚLTIMO KM gracias a @CarrefourES!#LaVuelta24 #CarrefourConLaVuelta pic.twitter.com/UfKR1uVIVk
— La Vuelta (@lavuelta) September 6, 2024
It would be safe to say that the win puts the three-time Vuelta winner in the front seat of the race, almost two minutes ahead of O’Connor, his four minutes advantage reduced to a mere five seconds before the start of today’s stage. He said: “I was a bit broken in the end there. I actually felt pretty good until about halfway and then, yeah, Stage 19, I guess. I wasn’t really surprise but I didn’t expect myself to be so bad at the end. But I guess that’s the reality.”
Asked what he’s now looking forward to after 13 days in red, the Australian said: “Monday and having beers and sitting on the terrace and relaxing… I tried [to stay in the podium places] today but didn’t really do my best work, but there’s still tomorrow and two more big days.”
“Even we say no”: Cycle insurance providers settle the cycle insurance debate, once and for all
If there was a better mic drop than this…
Everyone and their uncle’s favourite dinner-table discussion topic has, unfortunately, found its way once again into the annals of national news media, and no, it’s not Mr Loophole this time, as difficult as it might be to believe.
Instead, it’s *drumroll please* John Neal, the chief executive of the world’s biggest insurance and reinsurance market, Lloyd’s of London.
Neal, who describes himself as an ‘very keen cyclist’ *rolls eyes*, said that the idea of insurance for cyclists was “not such a daft one”, the suggestion coming after a cyclist who hit two women on a pavement in Cheshire before riding off, leaving them with several injuries, was handed a suspended jail sentence.
While that case did bring Mr Loophole out of his hole to call for new laws and bicycle number plates, Neal instead is suggesting that having cyclists take an insurance could improve safety, not just for themselves but also for pedestrians.
Neal even shared a personal anecdote with The Telegraph, saying: “Having been knocked off my bicycle two and a half years ago, I know what it’s like to be hit by somebody. So I think you do with a bit of protection as well.”
Amidst all the insurance talk, The Times published a piece yesterday titled “Should cyclists have to take out insurance?”, with Steve McNamara, general secretary at the Licensed Taxi Drivers’ Association (LTDA) answering ‘Yes’, while Sarah Mitchell, the chief executive of Cycling UK, said ‘No’.
However, ETA Services Ltd, an award-winning cycle insurance & breakdown cover, has thrown its hat into the debate, trying to settle the whole thing with a short, succinct, and valuable tweet: “Even we cycle insurance providers say NO. Next question…”
Of course there were multiple people replying to this with scenarios, or even past experiences where either their property or they themselves have been damaged by cyclists, to which ETA replied: “We’re not saying that cycle insurance isn’t an extremely useful thing to have – after all, it’s our business. It’s the making it mandatory we have a problem with.”
Even we cycle insurance providers say NO. Next question… pic.twitter.com/MOnTmHNb3T
— ETA Services Ltd (@ETAservicesltd) September 6, 2024
“So much anger at evidence”: Chris Boardman hits back at “nasty troll” accusing him of “pushing ideals on public” for sharing research that more kids cycle and walk to school in ULEZ
Social media is such a bizarre and interesting place, especially when strawman arguments become the norm. Person A will say: “I like eating apples because they’re good for health,” and person B will reply with: “Stop pushing your ideals on me because I prefer burger and chips.”
A similar sort of exchange took place when Chris Boardman shared a BBC article about a study from Cambridge University which showed that more children were walking and cycling to schools in London, which had ULEZ, as compared to Luton which didn’t — and his replies were quickly swarmed by anti-ULEZ advocates lambasting the former Olympian and Active Travel Commissioner for “pushing his ideals on the public”. (Dan shared the news on yesterday’s live blog as well, thankfully he hasn’t received any threats for it… yet)
In the study, researchers surveyed 1,000 children across 44 schools in central London about how they travelled to school in 2018-19, prior to ULEZ’s introduction, and then again in 2019-2020 after it was introduced, and then conducted the same study in Luton which doesn’t have ULEZ.
They found that while four in 10 children in central London who previously travelled to school by car are now walking, cycling or using public transport, in Luton just two in 10 had made the same switch.
Seems a pretty straightforward survey, with data clearly backing it up. However, things did take a turn when Boardman, perhaps sharing a common frustration with your live blog host at people who failed to read the data, or simply took it as an opportunity to be rude to strangers, hit back at one individual who said: “Stop trying to push your ideals on the public , it’s ok if you like walking and cycling but most people like the comfort of there own vehicles and personal space”.
Ah yes, school children who like their personal vehicles, got it.
“Hey @Derek8533829662,” wrote Boardman in response. “1) this is social media, and a personal account. No one has to listen. 2) I’m reposting an interesting study from Cambridge University. It’s not ‘my ideals’ 3) I am not asking you to change anything. So much anger at….evidence.”
Hey @Derek8533829662
1) this is social media, and a personal account. No one has to listen.
2) I’m reposting an interesting study from Cambridge University. It’s not ‘my ideals’
3) I am not asking you to change anything.So much anger at….evidence https://t.co/iVqTyETsnb
— Chris Boardman CBE (@Chris_Boardman) September 5, 2024
Boardman was backed by many cyclists, one of them who said: “I cycle quite a lot. I would cycle a lot more if it was safer on the roads and there was less chance of my bike being nicked when I went into a shop. I now dislike driving a car. There are simply too many other cars filled with (mainly) individuals in their own space going as fast as they can to a job to earn money to buy a car in which they can barely move. O [All] for the freedom of a bike.”
Or as someone said: “It’s ok if you like driving but stop trying to push your vehicular ideals on others.”
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We buy more and more stuff these days; bigger items are becoming cheaper, bikes have more features, are more desirable, it's easier to get around it's easier to sell stuff and the inevitable result is that there's more theft. I've been wrestling with this situation for somewhile and I've come to the conclusion that the answer to the question - should police be protecting the increasing amount of private property that people have - and I'm not sure that the answer is yes. I think we would be better off as a cycling community with our own independent cycling recovery team. it might work in conjunction with the police but you know it doesn't have to take away from police time too much. You might object to the fact that it's not a level playing field with other road vehicles which maybe do have police resources thrown at them. But equally, a stolen car is a lot more dangerous than a stolen bicycle, and it's a lot easier to sell the latter than it is the former.
@mdavidford - bring back the edit function, at last something upon which we can all agree!
@mdavidford "laxtivist" Hmm... slacktivist? "I disapprove of what you say but I will sometimes defend 'till the next coffee and cake opportunity your right to say it"?
@IanGlasgow They can make a pass look faster, but they never make things look closer than they are If it was as simple as that, some would say you could be right, but it isn't and you're not. I have the advantage that I noticed the effect that 'wide angle makes passes look closer' and performed the experiments. It does. The fallacy in your argument arises from equating 'closeness of a pass' to 'making things look closer', when they are clearly not the same thing. The relevant thought experiment is to imagine a balloon inflated between the cyclist and the vehicle of the close passing b*****d at the moment of peak closeness. To a first approximation, the whole of that balloon is at the same distance from the lens. Then ask yourself 'does the reduced field of view image make the balloon look bigger than on the increased field of view image (which we're calling 'wide-angle')?' The answer is yes. Bigger balloon = less-close pass. QED. Conclusion: Wide-angle makes passes look closer!
There are reply chains on the main road.cc site - they haven't worked on the offroad.cc and ebiketips subsites or the forum since the same ill-fated migration that killed the edit functionality.
https://upride.cc/incident/4148vz_travellerschoicecoach_closepass/ As a special bonus, to compensate for the mistake I made with the Sainsbury's 44-tonner above, here is the Travellers Choice attack on a pedestrian crossing. This is relevant because I am part way through the FoI process, asking LancsFilth what they actually did about the offence - this was before they invented the Lancashire Dodge, which is to ignore all reports about offences against cyclists. They actually agreed at the time to take action on this one, but at the Internal Review stage of the FoI process last week they refused to say what the action was, just as they did 3 years ago. The story continues...
I see the comment section has gotten worse again, first no editing, now no reply chains. What's next, pay by the word? @Rendel Harris "allow all demonstrations and counter demonstrations to take place without any policing?" All? No. But most could get away fine with a dozen or so shaperones, the fact the Met deploy vast swarms in riot gear and call in extra support from across the country(and if you ever want to maintain your illusions about the police, stay out of any forums or groupchats involving said bussed-in coppers, the level of gleeful anticipation they display at the prospect of being able to engage in violent thuggery against "crusties" and "stop oil nonces" is legitimately depressing even to someone who already has a low opinion of the profession) so they can have 10 officers to arrest every sign-holding pensioner has nothing to do with necessity or public order and everything to do with the fact the modern British police are an entire workforce of little Cartmans demanding you Respect Their Authoritah. It's a show of force intended to discourage protest in the first place. At least, protest of certain kinds - funnily enough they never seem to need half the coppers in the country to police farmers or cabbies blocking up the roads, and their response to fascist marches and rallies seems to be downright proportional unless there's a leftwing counter-protest planned...
https://upride.cc/incident/yn67mvj_sainsburys44tonner_closepass/ I mistakenly copied in the date from the file. I keep them in a text file with the date at the end of the line, but I should have excluded it
@wtjs link not found 😢
@wtjs wide angle lenses make things looks further away. That's why estate agents use them when taking interior photos - it makes the rooms look bigger because everything looks further away. They can make a pass look faster, but they never make things look closer than they are.
31 thoughts on ““So much anger at evidence”: Chris Boardman hits back at “nasty troll” accusing him of “pushing ideals on public”; Roglič says he didn’t want to win stage… after winning Vuelta stage; Sarah Storey makes history at Paralympics + more on the live blog”
Can we all now please just go
Can we all now please just go and troll the shit out of @Derek8533829662 and just fill his feed with every pro cycling article we can find? And then continue to do so with every toxic anti-cycling Knobhead who raises their head? Nothing offensive, just bombard them with facts and studies that counter their prejudicial views on a clean and healthy activity. You want to see what really like to have someone’s ideals pushed on you? Hold my pint!
Not worth bothering, Mr
Not worth bothering, Mr firstname bunchofnumbers is obviously a bot. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/firstname-bunchofnumbers
“So much anger at evidence”
“So much anger at evidence” seems to sum up a lot of modern society…
Evidence and facts don’t seem
Evidence and facts don’t seem to count for much these days, especially for a large number of drivers.
As Michael Gove said “We’ve
As Michael Gove said “We’ve had enough of experts.”
mitsky wrote:
Like most Tories in office, he never actually got round to finishing what he started, instead tailing off into incoherent mumbling about immigration.
What he meant to say was “We’ve had enough of experts …telling us we are wrong, and were flawed in the first place”
I do think the ULEZ topic is
I do think the ULEZ topic is possibly not accurate. I would imagine that those living in the inner-city with ULEZ, were already way more likely to walk to school. There is so much agenda-driven manipulation out there, its healthy to question it. If it has in fact changed significantly, only since ULEZ was introduced then that is evidence of a positive change, which I would welcome. Messaging on all this could be improved.
So much information, so many
Manipulation you say? But there *is* so much information, so many people reading a headline only (been guilty myself)
Much as I don’t wish to
Much as I don’t wish to support certain posters who appear only to be here to cast doubt on anything positive about cycling whilst at the same time complaining about speed limits for motor vehicles, I did find the research somewhat dubious simply because obviously children are more likely to walk/cycle/use public transport to get to school rather than be driven as they get older, so surveying the same children up to two years apart one would expect a significant number to have started travelling more independently of their parents. It would’ve been much more helpful to the cause of ULEZ (which I thoroughly support) to show the percentages of children using active travel to get to school pre-introduction and post-introduction, rather than looking at the same cohort two years apart where significant other factors may be influential.
I’m sure it’s not a perfect
I’m sure it’s not a perfect study, but surely that is the point of comparing the intervetion (London – with introduction of ULEZ) to the control (Luton – no ULEZ)? If it was a simple case of getting older = more likely to travel actively, then that would be reflected in both locations equally.
Agreed, I don’t think anyone
Agreed, I don’t think anyone is misrepresenting anything here, but the basis for comparison used by the study seems flawed.
The characteristics and patterns of active and non-active travel patterns as a function of age will likely vary significantly from inner London to most other parts of the UK for all sorts of reasons (off the top of my head: car ownership, public transport, local traffic patterns, typical parental commute patterns).
The association of the difference between school kids’ travel patterns a year apart in London and Luton with ULEZ introduction seems like a huge stretch, and more likely to be explainable by other factors. They’re not making the claim that ULEZ caused this change, but it’s tempting to want to do so given the write up of the data.
They’d have been better off doing the same study, but looking at changes one year apart both pre- and post- ULEZ implementation (maybe that’s what they had planned before COVID stuck a huge oar into everything at the end of the reported data collection period).
arckuk wrote:
The baseline data was taken prior to the ULEZ introduction, so I’m not quite sure what your issue with the study is.
(I’m not claiming that it’s a perfect study, but the methodology seems perfectly reasonable to me)
I think it’s the fact that
I think it’s the fact that the differences between London and Luton in the change in transport choice for the same school kids a year apart are being linked to the introduction of ULEZ. The study doesn’t say ‘because of’ anywhere, but the two things are continually mentioned one after the other.
It may just be that proportionally more children in London who don’t partake in active travel to school when ~6 years old do so a year later than those in Luton, and this is typically the case for any year’s worth of children in these locations.
I’m a big proponent of active travel, and my kids always walked/cycled/wheelchaired to and from their London primary school about a km each way. I’m also happy that ULEZ has been implemented, I just don’t think this study shows that ULEZ has made any difference to the likelihood of children using active travel methods.
arckuk wrote:
I suppose it’s difficult to determine the direct effects of ULEZs as there’s so many other variables to take into account, so I guess that finding a correlation between introducing an ULEZ and more people using active travel is the best we can hope for. It does make sense though to try to put a number on whether the ULEZ is achieving its aims and this study looks like a good data point. What I’d like to see is more ULEZs and more studies showing their benefit (or not if that’s the case).
Agree – study could have been
Agree – study could have been better done as you say, but they took an age range so I guess they had that in mind? Normally when I see “survey” I reach for the salt but skimming the paper they seem to have done a reasonable bit of diligence, including looking at a range of possible confounding factors.
I’m a little surprised by the size of the effect – has any extra infra been completed during the period?
Age is tricky – in the UK sample young and as you say cycling as transport might be expected to increase but IIRC it then drops off fast in teenage years, especially for women.
Meanwhile in the Netherlands… https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=346805844122836&id=100063802686144
Dutch children need to start cycling younger:
https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/08/dutch-children-must-cycle-at-earlier.html
I’m sure kids are still excited by eg. getting cars but they keep cycling.
I think perhaps one thing
I think perhaps one thing that should be taken into account is the fact that presumably Covid intervened between the introduction of ULEZ and the final survey, so lots of temporary LTNs, lower traffic levels, a desire to stay off public transport and other factors may well have encouraged more active travel?
Did wonder about that also –
Did wonder about that also – didn’t see mention of that but again didn’t have time to read the whole thing in detail.
Fair enough, but I guess they
Fair enough, but I guess they are using Luton as the control to compare the ULEZ area against.
alexuk wrote:
The study is about how many *switched* to walking/cycling *after* the ULEZ was introduced.
Here’s a link to the study itself in case you want to check if it’s being misrepresented: https://ijbnpa.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12966-024-01621-7
Found this letter on Facebook
Found this letter on Facebook, followed by the predictable 5000 comments 95% of which criticising a cyclist for not paying road tax and heavily featuring the word “lycra”.
Leaving that aside, quite extraordinary that Nottinghamshire police not only made no attempt to find out who actually committed the offence but give no warning or even indication that such behaviour is illegal, simply saying that it’s okay for cyclists two abreast. The culprit must be quaking in their boots.
Fucking hell. “Don’t get
Fucking hell. “Don’t get caught doing this again for the next 6 weeks”
Seems to be the point that they care about in the letter. Bolded and underlined.
Quote:
(grumble, grumble … standards of literacy in the police…)
henryb wrote:
(grumble, grumble … standards of literacy in the police…)
I notice stuff like that in newspaper articles a lot, and I wondered whether it is people dictating to their word processor instead of using a keyboard (and then not proofreading).
Of course, it could be general ignorance…
If the spell checker doesn’t
If the spell checker doesn’t pick it up it must be correct!
There is no spell checker in
There is no spell checker in the road.cc comment box.
Ah, but not relevant to your comment.
For some context of why Dame
For some context of why Dame Sarah Storey is simply magnificent, the second placed rider on this race was born three years AFTER Dame Sarah won her first paralympic gold.
She’s amazing, but can
She’s amazing, but can someone correct “peddling” to “pedaling” in the Dame Sarah Story piece?
henryb wrote:
Or even “pedalling”, which is the correct UK spelling
Cork Beo wrote:
Three yards? No way is it Europe’s shortest. I’m sure there are plenty that beat it. Let’s have your contenders – off you go comment section!
Will Self’s short story Scale
Will Self’s short story Scale dealt with a related question (among many): How long does a motorway have to be before it qualifies as a motorway? As far as I remember, the answer was: at least as long as it is wide.
Of course cyclists should
Of course cyclists should have insurance: when pedestrians are forced to have it as well, speaking as someone who has been knocked off their bike three times by pedestrians.