“Many may consider this to be a vote loser, but I think it’s a vote winner”: Insurance for cyclists debated by Lords, and quickly shut down as “utterly ridiculous”; Drivers told “leave the racing to Pogačar”; Crows attack cyclists + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
"Leave the racing to Pogačar": Slovenian freeway making the most of Pogi's exploits at the Giro and telling drivers to stay within speed limit
A freeway in Slovenia yesterday. @TamauPogi #Giro pic.twitter.com/GCwYu9cBKu
— Várhegyi Beni (@MrVrhgyiB) May 23, 2024
Now that’s a clever way to pipe down drivers looking to exceed the speed limits on the roads. Now only if this could be implemented in the UK? I’ve got a poll for you about which rider would you like to see…
Phone vs gels, what will you choose?
As the trend of cycling teams trying to recreate viral social media memes and reels continues, Bahrain Victorious has come up with something that’s not utterly worthless (looking at you Quick-Step)…
POV when you think someone’s stolen one of the most important things in your life as a cyclist, but then you realise it was just your phone 😆@Neversecond2 … Can’t go without it pic.twitter.com/JX7xh72QfX
— Team Bahrain Victorious (@BHRVictorious) May 24, 2024
"Cowardly" hit-and-run driver who killed teen cyclist jailed again after leading police on 100mph chase following release
A “cowardly and callous” hit-and-run driver who killed a 15-year-old cyclist in 2021 and was sentenced to three years and four months in prison and a three-year driving ban has been jailed again for 22 months following his release having led police on a 100mph pursuit through 40mph zones in a stolen vehicle.
Beware! Crows are finding new targets in Dulwich and cyclists are at the top of the list
If keeping yourself safe from dangerous drivers on the road didn’t seem like a hard enough task for you, it looks like crows are also now on cyclists’ back.
Dashcam footage shared by DeTours360 shows two crows swoop down and attack a cyclist in Townley Road, Dulwich yesterday. Not just once, not just twice, but at least a total of three times. The video was reposted by Dulwich Roads, saying: “The crows are back again this year and attacking cyclists and pedestrians at the junction of Beauval Rd and Townley.”
Dashcam footage shows 2 aggressive crows attacking a cyclist in Townley Road, Dulwich 23/5/24. @Southwark_News @mysouthldn @AlleynsSchool @SthLondonPress @itvlondon Be careful when walking past Beauval Road. pic.twitter.com/fKy23ZDvkj
— DeTours360 (@DeTours360) May 23, 2024
I’ve always been a bit perked by birds, and watching Alfred Hitchcock’s The Birds in my teenage years only deepened that paranoia and fear of a shady cabal of birds conniving and threatening to push humanity back into the dark ages…
> Cyclist-attacking magpies remember their victims
My irrational fear-mongering aside, cyclists being attacked by birds is really nothing new, and going back in the road.cc archives of bird attacks, my fear seems to have only been elevated, as this instance of a crow attacking a cyclist in a bizarre encounter in Vancouver that left marks on the man’s knuckle illustrates.
Or the series of magpie attacks in Australia, with a behavioural ecologist ringing some alarming bells by saying that they remember their victims, and may even come back at you for more.
“If they think you’re a threat, they will follow you and attack you for years,” ecologist Darryl Jones said. “If you’ve been attacked in the past, you’ll probably get attacked in the future.”
Jon Clark, the creator of Magpie Alert, a webiste that Australian cyclists can use to track aggressive magpies in their area, said; “If you want to go for a walk or cycle, check the website first to see if they are swooping in the area and then just change your route.”
> Has an Aussie cyclist finally found the way to stop magpies attacking riders?
Well that doesn’t sound very proactive does it? But turning back the pages and having a look back at the strategy deployed by an Aussie cyclist in 2021 may be of use here. Paul Heymans, head of the Brisbane Valley Rail Trail Users Association had said that using cheap, gardening bird scarer tape on your helmet can result in fewer attacks.
“I happened to notice that the magpies that used to attack me were actually avoiding me,” he said. “It’s not 100 per cent effective… I reckon it’s about 85 per cent effective, but it does work.”
I wouldn’t worry too much about the scientificity of the percentages here, but I do sense a potential for opening the doors to a helmet debate here (we haven’t had one in a while, have we?)… I’ll leave you all to discuss.
Ford RideLondon Classique gets underway in Essex with a star-studded roster of riders
At a time when organising cycling races in Britain seems to be getting more difficult than ever, with the Tour of Britain organiser pointing out the huge organisational, logistical and financial stress that goes into just getting a race on at all last year, it’s good to have cycling back here, thanks to the three-stage Ford RideLondon Classique.
Windows 95 or @RideLondon?#RideLondon | #UCIWWT pic.twitter.com/OSjBVqluem
— Human Powered Health Cycling (@hphcycling) May 24, 2024
And the starting list is stacked, featuring Team SD Worx’s Lorena Wiebes who won in 2022 and Team DSM-Firmenich’s PostNL Charlotte Kool who triumphed last year, as well as the reigning world champion Lotte Kopecky.
Among the leading domestic names taking part are 2015 world champion Lidl-Trek’s Lizzie Deignan, who was third at last year’s race, plus current British champion Pfeiffer Georgi, as well as sisters Elynor and Zoe Bäckstedt.
Here it comes….and there it goes, the Ford RideLondon Classique cycle stage has been and gone through Buntingford. Thanks for all the support 🚴♀️ pic.twitter.com/b3G6oZMr2m
— Hertfordshire County Council (@hertscc) May 24, 2024
Today’s opening stage starts off at Saffron Walden and ends at Colchester. Stage two is 143KM long, starting and finishing in Maldon while Stage three is a 91KM circuit in central London, starting and finishing on The Mall in front of Buckingham Palace.
Jeremy Vine tells cyclists it’s okay to sometimes break the law by crossing the white line at a red light to move to a safer position… but cyclists are divided if that’s the right thing to do
Another one for you readers to discuss and come to a consensus. This latest video in the long-running series titled ‘road.cc covering Jeremy Vine’s cycling exploits in London on the live blog’ (the title may need some shortening, will send a note to Jack) shows the BBC and Channel 5 presenter admittedly breaking a law by moving ahead of the white line at a red light and arguing why doing so sometimes can actually be safer for you.
“Heading for the lights, and here I am just behind the stop line. But I’ve seen the bus, so I’m moving. I worry this is breaking the law,” he says in the video, as he approaches a red light and comes to a halt on the right-hand side of a van.
I think I broke the law here.
I’m hoping you’ll understand why, on a bicycle, you sometimes have to. pic.twitter.com/pzgwGPibSo— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) May 23, 2024
As he sees a bus turning from the junction ahead, with nowhere to go he decides to instead go ahead of the van and thus cross the white line to position himself in a safer position. The bodywork of the bus does spill over the white line dividing the two lanes, and Vine says: “That’s an example of why you might want to be forward of the line here.”
He shows another instance from the same day of a truck driver turning right and completely cutting across the cycle box at the traffic light, and most certainly hitting a cyclist if someone had been there.
Vine adds: “I took the decision to be forward of the line to avoid being in their path and that’s 100 per cent right.”
This one is MAD when you look at it. He needs a banksman beside the truck for this manoeuvre pic.twitter.com/xF9FdOmEsJ
— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) May 23, 2024
However on a rare instance, CyclingMikey seemed to disagree with Vine, replying: “It’s a technical RLJ, and I think it’s better to avoid doing this. I would sit one car back or filter back to the nearside, generally. I’m not massively bothered though I do notice often people who do this then sometimes can’t see the change of traffic lights.”
What do you think, is Vine right to make himself safer by crossing the white line (he’s not actually going through the red light), or is there a better way to keep safe and not put yourself in such a situation in the first place? Let me know in the comments!
"Let's concentrate our efforts on the 1 million uninsured vehicles on our roads first": Reaction to insurance for cyclists debate in House of Lords
The comments in reaction to yesterday’s debate in the House of Lords about should cyclists have insurance are in, and there’s a fairly strong consensus on: “no”.
Richard Docherty (Facebook): “What is this nonsense that cyclists are the only road users who don’t have tax, insurance or a form of identification, as per the lords debate. What about horses, horse-drawn carriages. Or indeed, the most numerous category of road users: pedestrians.”
FingerBoardLies (Twitter): “Says it all really, they are after vote winning policies but not bothered about making an actual difference.”
DJ_Caress (Twitter): “Becoming extremely tiresome hearing people with no understanding of how accessible cycling insurance actually is and how many people are already insured. That’s before you start pressing them on the practicalities and what problem it would supposedly solve.”
Clem Fandango: “Oh well, only 6 more weeks of this BS…..”
Remembering Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe's comments in light of the insurance debate
In the wake of yesterday’s debate in the House of Lords raised by Lord Lord Hogan-Howe about whether cyclists should have mandatory insurance or not, let’s have a look at what the now cross-bencher lord and former chief of Metropolitan Police had to say a couple of years back.
It shouldn’t come as a surprise, but Hogan-Howe has previously expressed his dislike for cycling. In 2013, in an interview with BBC Radio London, he said: “I’ve never been a big bike rider anyway but it seems to be that if you get it wrong, or the driver gets it wrong, the person that’s going to pay is the cyclist.
“It seems to me that there’s a lot of traffic and personally I wouldn’t (cycle). But of course some people don’t have the choice; economically it’s not easy you know.
“If you’ve got someone who can’t afford to take a car into the congestion zone – if they did, you can’t park it anyway. Some people, they’ve got limited money and they can’t pay for public transport. I understand why they take the choice. It wouldn’t be mine.”
I guess some things never change?
Lorena Wiebes sprints to win first stage of RideLondon Classique
The 2022’s winner of the overall three-day stage race, Team SD-Worx’s Lorena Wiebes has taken the win in the first stage of the RideLondon Classique in Colchester.
The 159km stage, which started in Saffron Walden, came down to a bunch sprint with Wiebes coming out on top ahead of Letizia Paternoster (Liv-Alula-Jayco) and Clara Copponi (Lidl-Trek).
That’s what she does! 🚴♀️ ⚡️@lorenawiebes from @teamsdworx is our 2024 Ford RideLondon Classique Stage One Overall Winner! 🥇 👏
The sprint specialist bided her time and produced an explosive finish to take the win!
#RideLondon | @UCI_WWT pic.twitter.com/cIVRMg61ob— Ford RideLondon (@RideLondon) May 24, 2024
Wiebes will now go into tomorrow’s 143km stage, which starts and finishes in Maldon, wearing the race leader’s jersey. She also leads the Sprints Classification.
Rebecca Koerner (Uno-X Mobility) will wear the Queen of the Mountains jersey after winning a maximum nine points in the competition during today’s stage after being part of the day’s main breakaway alongside Lea Lin Teutenberg (Ceratizit – WNT Pro Cycling Team)
Decathlon AG2R La Mondiale's Andrea Vendrame wins Giro d'Italia stage 19 with a magnificent solo 30km attack
With the maglia rosa all but confirmed (unless someone manages to overturn a 7-minute late, anyone willing to bet?) Tadej Pogačar and UAE Team Emirates decided to finally let up and let the breakaway have their day, and it was Andrea Vendrame from Decathlon AG2R La Mondiale who was able to reap the benefits, with a stunning 30km attack en route to Sappada.
🔻 The final KM of stage 1️⃣9️⃣ for @AndreaVendra who finally wins again after nearly 3 years of drought! #GirodItalia
⏮ The @Continentaltire Ultimo Kilometro ⤵️#LastKm | #Continental #ContinentalItalia #SafetySponsorOfTheRoad pic.twitter.com/asWl123C65
— Giro d’Italia (@giroditalia) May 24, 2024
Some amazing scenes there as the Italian rider high-fived his DS in the team car as he made his way to the finish line, after setting off his attack from the seven-rider leading group and then fleshing out his lead to more than a minute over the next categorised climbs.
The maglia rosa group, meanwhile, finished the race 16 minutes behind Vendrame, but no changes in the GC. Although there was a silly crash towards the very end by Geraint Thomas, who touched wheels with Antonio Tiberi in a moment of loss of concentration and hit the ground.
Thankfully, he was quickly back on the saddle, with Pogačar even slowing down in gentleman’s move for the Welshman who currently sits third in the general classification.
E Thomas deu jeito de cair#giroditalia #GironoDSports pic.twitter.com/aSl357GvMq
— O País Do Ciclismo (@opaisdociclismo) May 24, 2024
Government knew it wasn't investing enough in cycling, according to new document
At the end of a week when the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) warned that “the UK is travelling in the wrong direction” after official figures showed a 7.3 per cent decline in cycling miles travelled and a 2.2 per cent rise in car journeys between 2022 and 2023, a newly available document shows that the Department for Transport knew it was not investing enough in active travel to hit its targets.
Read more: > Government knew it wasn’t investing enough in cycling, according to new document
“Many may consider this to be a vote loser, but I think it is a vote winner”: Insurance for cyclists debated in House of Lords, and quickly shut down as “utterly ridiculous and unenforceable”
The month of May keeps throwing one curveball after another, as this Tory government (on its way out, some would argue) seems quite intent on legislating laws for cyclists.
The ‘dangerous cycling bill’ was first agreed to be passed by ministers in the House of Commons last week, amidst severe backlash and criticism from cycling and walking charities and campaigners, and then disregarded after PM Rishi Sunak decided to call a general election on the 4th of July, leaving the Lords with not enough time to pass the bill and make it into a law.
Debate on cycling in Parliament today where people called for insurance, reg numbers and much more for cyclists.
I said everyone should obey traffic rules but many more people are hurt or killed by drivers than bikes & that these demands would cost billions and be unenforceable. pic.twitter.com/je2W5bfoov— Ian Austin (@LordIanAustin) May 23, 2024
And now yesterday, another hot topic — insurance for cyclists was debated in the House of Lords, with Lord Hogan-Howe expressing his feelings about why it should be legislated. He said: “Over the last 20 years injuries of pedestrians hit by cyclists have drastically increased — more than doubling. Every day, we see people ignoring one-way signs, going across pedestrian crossings, through red lights and across pelican crossings while pedestrians are on them.
“Cyclists are not even governed by speed limits in the way that motor vehicles are. Has not the time come for the Government to consider insurance to compensate people for the damage that cyclists can cause, and for registration marks to identify those who have committed an offence and deter those who might?
“Finally, where a cyclist commits an offence and has a driving licence, their licence might be endorsed with points for the offences which they have committed as a cyclist. Many may consider this to be a vote loser, but I think it is a vote winner.”
Fortunately, there was hardly in agreement with Lord Hogan-Howe. Lord Davies, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Department for Transport, replied saying that “dangerous cycling puts lives at risk and is completely unacceptable” and “cyclists are required to comply with road traffic law”.
> Grant Shapps: Cyclists should have number plates, be insured and subject to speed limits
However, he added that the government had considered mandatory registration and insurance for cyclists as part of a comprehensive review in 2018 and decided against it “as the cost and complexity of introducing such a system would far outweigh the benefits”.
I wonder if the government had already reviewed the proposal in 2018, why did former Transport Secretary Grant Shapps raise the issue again in the summer of 2022, leading to his now-infamous backpedalling, a U-turn so sharp and quick that it would put the best bike handlers to shame.
The issue of bike insurance also came up in the news on Sunday, as the Spanish city of Zaragoza launched an ordinance that could make it mandatory for cyclists to have an insurance and carry that with them at all times, with the police having the power to stop anyone and ask them to show it. Even children learning how to cycle would legally be required to have an insurance.
Meanwhile, a number of other Lords were also in agreement that introducing a mandatory insurance for cyclists would be detrimental and not cost-effective, the feistiest of responses in yesterday’s debate came from Lord Ian Austin of Dudley.
“My Lords, this is utterly ridiculous,” he said. “Everybody using the roads should abide by the rules, but the figures bear out that many more pedestrians are hurt by drivers than by cyclists. Frankly, every day I see cars jumping red lights, speeding and going across pedestrian crossings, and the police are not able to enforce all of those at the moment.
“The best way to make our roads safer is to get more people on bikes. That would improve the environment and public health. Is the Minister not completely right to say that this will cost a fortune, be incredibly complex and massively bureaucratic and, as the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, knows better than anybody, with the pressures that the police are already under, be utterly unenforceable.”
“Hear, hear,” the chamber echoed in unison.
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I had actually cycled my first century the week before the accident. I got back on the bike straight away then a hip wore out and was replaced so I missed a lot of cycling in 2024 but I was back to my normal level in 2025 not so sure what has happened this year I am not as enthusiastic as usual I have been on the bike just not cycled far. I will have to do more as I will do a 50 mile ride in September the annual charity ride. Not sure fear is the problem exactly more a feeling that there is less enjoyment.in a bike ride than there once was.
What’s all this MTB palaver? The Tour de France was originally a gravel race. 🙃
@wtjs I've sent in 2 close pass videos to kent police, never heard anything back.
@Rendel Harris I had wondered how they might be preparing to deal with the expected heat. Got to keep them as safe as possible. My excitement is building, always a nervy first week, too many crashes in the peleton and no amount of down gearing is going to prevent that. From my cloudy memory, the pogecar lad is very rarely caught out on the wrong side of a crosswind split.
Rumor has it that riding the MMR gives you autism.
Well this looks ominous: real possibility of Tour stages being cancelled due to extreme heat. I'll put the link in a reply otherwise this whole comment will be quarantined - it's on the Guardian if anyone wants to search for themselves.
Having used the street multiple times since it was opened just over a month ago, I can report two issues which are preventing the improvements from working to their full potential. Firstly, there is no signage other than the painted bikes on the road itself, so there is nothing to indicate that cyclists have priority. The second is that the double yellow lines stop about two-thirds of the way down the road, meaning that from that point onwards, there are multiple cars parked half on the pavement and not in the designated parking places, reducing the width of both the footpath and the road to what it was before the improvements were made.
@MaxiMinimalist Really? So this applies only to drivers from Bouches-du-Rhône, Haute-Garonne and Vaucluse, drivers from the other sixteen départements that make up the south are fine?
Yeah, it's great isn't it........
43 thoughts on ““Many may consider this to be a vote loser, but I think it’s a vote winner”: Insurance for cyclists debated by Lords, and quickly shut down as “utterly ridiculous”; Drivers told “leave the racing to Pogačar”; Crows attack cyclists + more on the live blog”
Oh well, only 6 more weeks of
Oh well, only 6 more weeks of this BS…..
Unfortunatley the Lords is
Unfortunatley the Lords is unelected and is filled out with cronies of the multitude of former tory PM’s who have wandered through in the past 14 years. I would assume Sunak will also get to dump a load more in there.
It is good though that often the lords do stand up to the government even with Tory against Tory.
A plea from those of us out
A plea from those of us out in the sticks:
Please do not be complacent about the outcome of the election. I am still surrounded by folks that will vote Tory, in the hope that the party “sees sense” and gets rid of “that immigrant” in charge and brings back Boris or Liz.
Around here even if Reform split the right wing vote 50:50 sensible politics still doesn’t get a look in.
100 % agree large parts of
100 % agree large parts of rural Britain especially here in the East it’s like the Tory holy land. Don’t take anything for granted !
Oh I’m not. IF they were to
Oh I’m not. IF they were to get back in, they’d drop it immediately anyway given their record on delivering anything they’ve promised. My point is, the anti cycling culture war nonsense will no doubt escalate through the election campaign & then die off. For a year, when like clockwork, the right whinge press will seize on an opportunity to distract from some Tory sh1tshow or other by making a splash about RLJing/speed limits not applying/helmets/road tax/insurance* (insert lame trope here) -ie business as usual
That Hogan-Howe is the former
That Hogan-Howe is the former Met police chief. So he, with all his experience of policing the nation’s capital, has decided that us cyclists are what needs to be legislated against.
Thank God he’s no longer involved in policing if that’s indicative of his grip on reality.
As Ian Austin said, if they
As Ian Austin said, if they can’t (afford to) enforce existing laws for motorists then they ain’t going to do it for cyclists.
if they can’t (afford to)
if they can’t (afford to) enforce existing laws for motorists then they ain’t going to do it for cyclists
Well, they might in areas with a lot of cyclists, in order to garner ‘likes’ from hyper-junk press readers, especially in Tory, anti-LTN areas, while benignly ignoring serious offences by drivers This doesn’t apply in North Lancashire as there aren’t any cyclists. As for the ‘can’t enforce’, it’s more an absolutely determined ‘won’t enforce’: kickass ‘4×4 Response’ WT16 ATX is here parked on the pavement opposite Garstang High School (although it’s not one of the regulars- at kicking out time it’s nose to tail pavement parkers obstructing buses etc.) and failed MOT 28.2.24 for a bumper crop of major defects- most recently identified and reported parked in the centre of Garstang 100 yards from the police station on 27.4.24. Previously reported on 4.10.22 during a previous long ‘No MOT, No VED’ spell. Never any response from Lancashire Constabulary. Bent police forces are not averse to using their powers to choose who to prosecute and who to forgive, on entirely ignoble grounds, such as ‘we hate cyclists’
“As Ian Austin said, if they
“As Ian Austin said, if they can’t (afford to) enforce existing laws for motorists then they ain’t going to do it for cyclists.”
I think they are going to do for cyclists because it is easier since they go slower (contrary to what you might read in the Telegraph). I note the article citing that police are trialling the EM pulse device against cyclists on illegal e-bikes yet why isn’t such technology used routinely for motoring offences?
Pub bike wrote:
I’d guess that the e-motorcyclists are younger and less likely to have a pacemaker or defibrilator fitted which could be very problematic if an EM pulse is fired towards them. I hope it’s very directional as you wouldn’t want bystanders being affected.
yes it will be the cyclists
yes it will be the cyclists who they can stop… as we have seen with those stories about Grimsby and Colchester.
Miller wrote:
can we expect any more after all didn’t Met Police chief Cressida Dick proclaim that it was too dangerous to cycle on London’s streets, displaying no awareness that part of the role of the organisation she was in charge of is to ensure the streets ARE safe. Oh, to have been a journalist at that press conference and press her on what her plan was for rectifying the failings of her leadership.
Hogan-Howe who as Met police
Hogan-Howe who as Met police commissioner was so competent that in a staff survey only 20% of officers said they had confidence in the leadership of the force? That Hogan-Howe?
“Finally, where a cyclist
“Finally, where a cyclist commits an offence and has a driving licence, their licence might be endorsed with points for the offences which they have committed as a cyclist. Many may consider this to be a vote loser, but I think it is a vote winner.”
might as well drive to the pub then, since it seems I could still be banned even if I cycle.
““Over the last 20 years injuries of pedestrians hit by cyclists have drastically increased — more than doubling”
I wonder what the change in number of people cycling is over the last 20 years. In London I expect it has much more than doubled. So each individual cyclist may be less likely to collide with a pedsestrian. The lord paints a picture of increasing lawlessness, but I think it’s just a question of growth.
And of course “hit by cyclists” does not differentiate between pedestrians crossing correctly (or on the pavement) and being injured by cyclists doing wrong, and pedestrians walking into the road in front of cyclists without looking, relying only on their ears. A trend which has surely increased since the introduction of smart phones.
I was stopped at the lights
I was stopped at the lights earlier and it was green for peds. The lady waiting was so engrossed in her phone, she failed to cross and had to wait for the next cycle. I did shout ‘green’ but she was too far away.
It should be noted that even the government report* showed of the 20 fatal incidents between cyclists and peds, 6/20 were down to the ped, 4/20 cyclist 5/20 equal and 5/20 no attribution.
* STATS19 reported road casualty data between 2011-2016 confirms that during this period there were a total of 2,491 collisions between cyclists and pedestrians
resulting in a pedestrian casualty (but not necessarily amounting to fault on the part of the cyclist).
Conclusion – registration, tabards and insurance are required for pedestrians.
Hirsute wrote:
I can’t out-accelerate a car when I’m cycling, but I usually beat them to at least the other side of the intersection when the light turns green. I believe that’s because I’m looking at the light while waiting for it to change, instead of taking the red light as an opportunity to check Twitter.
Can we just start with a
Can we just start with a crack down on illegal mopeds first?
All those delivery drivers using throttles, having assistance above 15mph, more than 250w motors, those are all unlicenced mopeds, lacking number plates and lacking insurance.
I’m not saying all cyclists are perfect, but almost all the issues I see in my city of “cyclists” jumping lights, riding on pavements etc are actually these illegal mopeds.
It would be interesting to
It would be interesting to drill in to this his claim “Over the last 20 years injuries of pedestrians hit by cyclists have drastically increased”. If cycling increases incidents will inevitably increase. Has he conflated cyclists and scooter data? How many of these cyclists Did have insurance? When an incident occurs this rarely gets mentioned. Also how many would be uninsurable because they weren’t Road legal (which is exactly your point)?
Also why does the question of insurance not apply to other groups. Eg if I’m cycling on a cycle path in a park and I get hit and knocked off by a rogue football should I be able to claim on that kids public liability insurance?
It’s a red herring designed to attack cycling.
According to cycling uk 2% of
According to cycling uk 2% of Pedestrians casualties caused by cyclists compared to 98% by drivers.
Which might actually suggest
Which might actually suggest “wait a minute then – scale the numbers by trips / milage / time* and cyclists look quite dangerous, because there aren’t many”.
I think there are a couple of points to counter that. First the actual numbers are really small (as well as when compared to the casualties from drivers). Second there are some question marks about “involved in collision” in some of the data sets.
In addition I don’t think you can just extrapolate from those numbers to e.g. say “but but if we have e.g. four times as many cyclists we’ll have four times the casualties”! That’s because I don’t think you can get that kind of significant increase in cycling without fundamentally changing our approach to road safety and indeed the infra. And that is a significant enough change that other bets are off.
Of course I guess it’s possible the UK could somehow design infra that encouraged more cycling but did nothing to make it safer for pedestrians OR reduce the volume of motor traffic … but I doubt you can realistically have one without the other. People cycling are generally not keen to cycle around or indeed into pedestrians either!
* Previously been debate about the fairest comparison method. I think this always comes with a “pinch of salt” since “exposure” to cyclists and drivers is actually different e.g. in the UK due to (badly designed) “shared use” the amount of time potentially in conflict will differ etc.
I believe it is over a 4 or 5
I believe it is over a 4 or 5 year period so it equates to around 2,500 involving cyclists compared to 122,000 involving drivers. That said I did not drill deeper enough to determine how comparable the injuries were. I would hazard a guess that the severity of the injuries could be potentially less compared to the injuries caused by drivers. However as you alluded to proper infrastructure where cyclists and pedestrians are likely to interact this figure would likely reduce?
Involving cyclists rather
Involving cyclists rather than caused by.
Sorry I stand corrected I was
Sorry I stand corrected I was sitting in the barbers at the time of typing and trying to retrieve the numbers I had seen somewhere ?. I think this was also based over a 4 or 5 year period? Also probably doesn’t go into the details of what the incident or injury for example is compared to drivers.
they say a day is a long time
they say a day is a long time in politics, yesterday alot of people were smugly celebrating the demise of the IDS amendment in the criminal justice bill.
and then up pops a question in the Lords, showing theres just as much antipathy towards cyclists in the unelected upper chamber, and absolutely a way for the bill and the IDS amendments to be resurrected post election.
in fact it wasnt just the one Lord, surprised Road.cc didnt cover the whole Q&A session as Lord Winston (Lab) then asked about licensing for cyclists, a theme he has repeatedly laboured on, insisting without licensing it would be impossible to force cyclists to obey the laws.
Lord Birt (cross bench) asked, “Does the Minister agree that bikers, like other road users, should be required to display identifiers and be held responsible for their unlawful and unsocial actions?” insisting that cyclists make the pedestrian experience nerve wracking and hazardous.
and Baroness McIntosh (con) asked that “the Government undertake to confiscate any bicycle if the owner or rider of it perpetrates a major breach of road traffic offences”
that snapshot may not have concluded any real change, but rest assured if an opportunity to do something about cyclists presents itself, as a bill or as an amendment to a bill they have to scrutinise, there will be more support for it in the Lords than you imagine.
‘Leave the racing to that
‘Leave the racing to that cyclist who averaged 52mph on that segment featured in the telegraph.’
What is this nonsense that
What is this nonsense that cyclists are the only road users who don’t have tax, insurance or a form of identification, as per the lords debate. What about horses, horse-drawn carriages. Or indeed, the most numerous category of road users: pedestrians.
the little onion wrote:
You’re applying logic, and this whole boondongle is just about being divisive and trying to prevent people from cycling or taking up cycling. Remember, Sunak did his best to kill people with his “Eat Out to Help Out” scheme and this attack on cycling is trying to ensure that more people will die from cardiovascular and inactivity related diseases.
the little onion wrote:
Quite so.
What about also the fact that many of us routinely have identification, do have insurance (far more than would be required under the RTA if we were driving motor vehicles). And that the penalty for killing another road user is disproportionately heavier for those who were cycling at the time than for those driving.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joey-barton-calling-jeremy-vine-9304529
Baron Hogan-Howe, QPM wrote:
As a peer, and a cross-bench one at that, Crocodile Dunpolicing is two steps removed from any concern about vote-winning for his position.
He was, however, responsible for enforcing criminal law in the UK’s largets police force; a role which one might assume tips its cap in the general direction of evidence from time to time.
So it remains a mystery why he should think that the key impetus for making draconian changes to affect a minority, vulnerable user group – ahead of any changes to protect them – is how it polls, rather than the evidence for its efficacy, equality or ethical validity.
What a chump!
GMBasix wrote:
As a peer, and a cross-bench one at that, Crocodile Dunpolicing is two steps removed from any concern about vote-winning for his position.
He was, however, responsible for enforcing criminal law in the UK’s largets police force; a role which one might assume tips its cap in the general direction of evidence from time to time.
So it remains a mystery why he should think that the key impetus for making draconian changes to affect a minority, vulnerable user group – ahead of any changes to protect them – is how it polls, rather than the evidence for its efficacy, equality or ethical validity.
What a chump!— Baron Hogan-Howe, QPM
Maybe he’s received a nice gift from some interested party?
I once had an argument with a
I once had an argument with a motorcyclist about me having crossed the white line at a junction. The cycle lane to the left had a van parked in it so I had gone round the outside of the queue, and when I arrived at the advanced stop box there was said motorcyclist stopped in it. Not wanting to stop to the right of him I pulled in front to the left and waited, when he started to berate me for ‘jumping the light’.
Of course, he’d jumped the light too, but didn’t seem to know that the stop box isn’t for motorcyclists.
Of course, he’d jumped the
Of course, he’d jumped the light too, but didn’t seem to know that the stop box isn’t for motorcyclists
These disputes about lesser points are hardly relevant when the police here excuse pretty much any red-light offences by motorists, just as these were determinedly not acted upon
https://upride.cc/incident/pj23vmc_honda125_redlightcross/
https://upride.cc/incident/g16dht_hgvtrainer_redlightcross/
https://upride.cc/incident/k7ddy_audia4_redlightpass/
bensynnock wrote:
IME, probably yes – but of course he could be stopped there legally if the lights changed after he crossed the first line.
quiff wrote:
IME, probably yes – but of course he could be stopped there legally if the lights changed after he crossed the first line.— bensynnock
However, if one anticipates lights changing in much the same way that many drivers don’t seem to, stopping in the ASL is almost always avoidable.
They should be treated in very much the same way that yellow hatched boxes are: don’t enter unless your way is clear. You can easily adjust the speed of approach so that if you could stop at the further line, you could stop at the first, or if you can go through the first as the lights start to change you can safely clear the second.
It’s just that peope don’t give a monkey’s about that… because cyclists innit.
I’ve never been “forced” to
I’ve never been “forced” to stop in an ASL when driving. I use this one weird trick called “paying attention and planning my driving”. It will never catch on with the majority of drivers but it works for me.
As I wrote below, this ASL
As I wrote below, this ASL stuff is like arguing about how many angels fit on the head of a pin- a waste of time. Lancashire Constabulary doesn’t understand it either: they claimed that if the lights turn red after (some unspecified part of…) the vehicle crosses the ASL, it is legal for the driver to continue to cross the true stop line after the light has turned red. The reason stated was that the true stop line and the box are only for cyclists. The legal stop line has not been altered by the advent of the ASL- the fault of motorised vehicles stopping in the box is a separate one which is, I’m sure, never prosecuted. In practice, on the A6 lights where I film my red light offences, they’re crashing through at 50-60 mph when they should have decided to stop 3 seconds before when the lights turned amber
Talking of crows, is it wrong
Talking of crows, is it wrong for me to sing to myself the Ki-ora advert song when I notice a crow out and about, and to continue the more I see in the group?
On Jeremy Vine.
On Jeremy Vine.
The more dangerous encounter is with the big lorry, and that had to squeeze in as there in a transit unloading too close to the junction on the other side of the road.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/clocking-strava-cyclists-regents-park-furore-hhpnn29ww
Made it to the first sentence before the paywall kicked in. Sure enough there’s a “lycra-clad” right up there. So we can safely ignore this one.
Gotta love election season
I read it, didn’t really have
I read it, didn’t really have much of a point to the article. Basically, they went there, saw not a lot, quoted some facts that didn’t back up the article’s attempt at fuelling the hysteria:
“During 90 minutes in the park this week, The Times recorded a handful of cyclists travelling above the 20mph speed limit for cars, although many were below the limit.”
“The Outer Circle is one of the most popular segments in the UK, but also the most controversial. The segment for one lap of the park, 2.7 miles, has now been taken down, or “flagged”, as hazardous. Some 42,284 Strava users have ridden two laps of the park 2,162,122 times.”
Lords Debate
Lords Debate
Have not listened yet, but did no one tell Lord Hogan-Holier-than-Thou that a large majority of cyclists probably *do* already have liability insurance via Household or other.
And the – like IDS – he needs to turn his brain on and do some f*cking homework.
On the claim that injury cost has doubled in 20 years, that’s about the same as inflation, and niles per pop cycled is up 50%.
Who was the Lord who called him out on his BS?
“I believe that this
“I believe that this (compulsory insurance for cyclists) is a vote-winner.”
So there it is in plain sight. Not something that will makes people’s lives better but simply something that will help keep these corrupt bastards in power. Once again putting party before country.
I hope these Tory cunts are out of power for a generation.