17/08/22, 11:52: Read our update to this story here: Confusion as Grant Shapps now says he is “not attracted to bureaucracy” of number plates for cyclists
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has said that cyclists should be insured, carry licence plates on their bikes, and be subject to the same speed limits as motorists.
The Tory cabinet minister told the Mail that putting such measures in place would be considered as part of the current review that may see a causing death by dangerous cycling law introduced.
It’s less than a fortnight since Shapps, who was appointed Secretary of State for Transport by Boris Johnson in July 2019, outlined his plans to the Mail for that legislation – but his position set out in the same newspaper this evening, and said to have the support of Whitehall officials, goes way beyond that.
> Government to crack down on “reckless” riders with causing death by dangerous cycling law
This evening Shapps, who risks losing his cabinet post once Conservative leadership contenders Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak puts their cabinet together next month, insisted cyclists should be subject to the same laws as motorists – including abiding by speed limits, being insured, and carrying identifiable registration plates.
In particular, he is said to be concerned about cyclists riding at speeds above 20mph, which he claims they can “easily exceed” – even though the speed of e-bikes legal for road use, for instance, is capped at 15.5mph, and the vast majority of people riding bicycles would never approach such a speed on flat roads, nor are bikes required to be fitted with speedometers.
He told the newspaper: “Somewhere where cyclists are actually not breaking the law is when they speed, and that cannot be right, so I absolutely propose extending speed limit restrictions to cyclists.
“Particularly where you’ve got 20mph limits on increasing numbers of roads, cyclists can easily exceed those, so I want to make speed limits apply to cyclists.
“That obviously does then lead you into the question of ‘well, how are you going to recognise the cyclist, do you need registration plates and insurance and that sort of thing’.
“So I’m proposing there should be a review of insurance and how you actually track cyclists who do break the laws.”
Requiring cyclists to carry some form of identification, such as a numbered tabard – suggested by motoring lawyer Nick Freeman, also quoted in the Mail’s article – is seen by some as an answer to the perceived problem of the minority of cyclists who ride recklessly, including jumping red lights.
But advocates of such schemes – which where they have been implemented, tend to be ditched quickly because of the cost of administering them, plus the fact they discourage cycling and the health and other benefits associated with it – tend to ignore the greater harm that law-breaking motorists, in vehicles that already carry registration plates, can do.
Nevertheless, Shapps continued: “I don’t want to stop people from getting on their bike, it’s a fantastic way to travel, we’ve seen a big explosion of cycling during Covid and since, I think it has lots of health benefits.
“But I see no reason why cyclists should break the road laws, why they should speed, why they should bust red lights and be able to get away with it and I think we do have to not turn a blind eye to that and I’m proposing setting up a review to do exactly that,” he added.
Most adult cyclists do in fact have liability insurance, whether under their household insurance policy or bike insurance, or through membership of organisations such as British Cycling or Cycling UK.
As the law stands at the moment, they are not required to carry third party insurance – unlike motorists, who are obliged by law to have that as a minimum, although that has not prevented an estimated million or more drivers taking to British roads without such cover.
The Mail also claimed that cyclists found guilty of killing a pedestrian face a maximum of two years in jail, which is incorrect.
True, that is the maximum jail term that can be imposed on someone found guilty of causing bodily harm through wanton or furious driving under the Offences Against The Person Act 1861.
But in two high-profile cases in the past five years in which cyclists were convicted of that offence following the death of a pedestrian, they were also acquitted of manslaughter – which carries a maximum punishment of life imprisonment.
By contrast, causing death by dangerous driving has a maximum jail term of 14 years – although since June this year, it has been increased to life if the motorist was under the influence of drink or drugs.
According to a report last year from the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety, just one in 100 crashes in 2019 that resulted in the death of a pedestrian was due to a cyclist – compared to 65 in which a driver was to blame.
In July, when he resigned as Conservative Party leader, thereby putting in motion the battle not only for who would succeed him to that post, but also as Prime Minister, we asked whether Boris Johnson’s departure would be a blow for active travel, including cycling.
> Boris Johnson resignation: A blow for active travel?
Neither Truss – his likely successor – nor Sunak are known as huge supporters of walking and cycling, and it could well be that Shapps’ comments tonight, which some might interpret as a dog-whistle to party members, could be an attempt to curry favour with the next Prime Minister and ensure he stays in post.





















125 thoughts on “Grant Shapps: Cyclists should have number plates, be insured and subject to speed limits”
A Tory talking to the Daily
A Tory talking to the Daily Mail.
Its like shit with more shit on top
Has he ever ridden a bicycle
Has he ever ridden a bicycle into his place of work?
well he claims to ride his 90
well he claims to ride his 90 year old fathers bike, which he recently electrified himself…
Hopefully in a way that is
Hopefully in a way that is compliant with the electrically assisted bicycles rules in this country.
Thank you for sullying
Thank you for sullying yourself by reading this filth, and summerising it, so that we don’t have to.
If we have to have
If we have to have registration plates, we could presumably get personalised plates.
I’ll reserve SHAPP5 U W4NKR
April Fools Day?
April Fools Day?
I did wonder that myself, but
I did wonder that myself, but sadly not the idiot actually seems to think this is a good idea.
Id understand it more if he was in someway campaigning for the leadership, or a role with the new leadership, but neither are the case really, its pretty much expected he’ll be shuffled out of his current role at the very least, and there wont be an election imminent.
the Telegraph had a cringe making pr profile interview of him (and I expect theyll be full of it on this tomorrow too) the other week after he’d already been dumped out of the leadership contest and the quote on cycling was literally he wanted to bring in this death by dangerous cycling law to stop red light jumpers, but other than appeasing Mail readers with his bon mot editorials, Im struggling to see the “why” is he doing this part.
Vote fool, get fool.
Vote fool, get fool.
Silly season stuff. Will
Silly season stuff. Will appeal to the 160,000 racist pensioners though.
You’d hope that this would
You’d hope that this would basically all be unworkable. But thanks to the likes of the DM dragging cyclists/cycling into their culture wars narrative, there’s probably an awful lot of people who’d like to see it happen. None of them actually rides a bike of course…
Here he goes again. Shatts.
Here he goes again. Shatts. Talking out of his arse. Spending billions on a new CVLA and infrastructure. Who gave you a blank cheque, dimwit?
The problem is 99.99% inside the motor vehicle. You cretin. You’re making the divide between driver and cyclist worse, making roads less safe for cyclists with every flippant comment you spew.
What’s next? Locking up kids on Grifters cos they ain’t got the right paperwork. FFS.
Sack Shatts. You are the subject of a sacking…
As both a train driver and a
As both a train driver and a cyclist, oh how I detest this imbecile!
He’s obviously out of his depth picking fights with ASLE&F so thinks cyclists are fair game instead?
He was recently quoted as suggesting that train operator Avanti are unable to run their timetable properly because of “unofficial strike action by ASLE&F union members” and that “archaic rules from 1919 mean working on rest days is voluntary.”
Firstly, you dimwit, if unofficial strike action had taken place, you can bet your life that Avanti would’ve had ASLE&F in court as quick as a flash. Secondly, of course working rest days (the term used on the railway for your day’s off) is voluntary! Is he suggesting that drivers should be forced to work on their days off? i.e. 7 days a week. How safe would it be having a tired driver at the controls of a train carrying hundreds of people? Plus, I think he should know that the law under The Hidden Report, following the Clapham rail crash, prevents this anyway!
And if he wants to talk about archaic rules, how about starting with the practices in Westminster? Where an MP can be ejected for calling the PM, a proven liar, a liar!
And how about a bloke who dresses in a frock and bangs on the door with a mace? I’d say that was more archaic than people not being forced to work overtime on their days off!
‘Failing’ Grayling was an absolute nincompoop and now we get this idiot – is Transport Secretary the job where they appoint the least capable moron?
guildwheeler wrote:
Yes. This is just distraction from the complete balls up of literally everything at the moment, mostly caused by this utter disgrace of a government; strikes, food banks, rampant inflation, empty shop shelves, NHS on its knees, the list is endless. Rather than solve any of it, the tories just try to distract, which will work with DM readers.
Oh great! Really looking
Oh great! Really looking forward to getting back on the bicycle tomorrow with this crap in the headlines as justification for every deliberate act of aggression no doubt coming my way.
On the plus side, we have a local election coming up…
Dear Mr Shapps
Dear Mr Shapps
Please note that the vast majority of cyclists never get anywhere near the speed limit wheras the majority of drivers admit that they “accidentally” might drift over the speed limit.
Also you’re right, running a red light is unacceptable, so could we have a crackdown on that, particularly those road users who accelerate towards a changing set of lights.
Also could you please stop talking out of your lowest orifice.
Yours sincerely
A cyclist who has experienced far too many close passes.
Wow, you couldn’t make this
Wow, you couldn’t make this stuff up. Have the UK politicians just doubled down on being the worst, most out of touch and most incompetent in all time? Making it more difficult to ride a bicycle and wasting lots of money in doing that will be a great outcome for making congestion and health worse. That appears to be the strange motivation of the Conservatives who live in a world outside everyone else where logic and respect are non-existent. Have the Shatts checked out what happens in the rest of the world. Of course not as he is part of a government who thought leaving the largest free trade area in the world during an economic downturn would be a good idea.
No – it’s just thicko Shapps
No – it’s just thicko Shapps being as gormless as usual.
And Melissa Kite in Jeremy-Clarkson-in-2005-with-added-testosterone mode.
Is he unaware that cyclists,
Is he unaware that cyclists, like horse riders and pedestrians, have a legal right to be on the Public Highway whereas motor vehicles are only allowed under an Actof Parliament?
And how one asks will wearing a numbered tabard work when, like me a mountain biker, your covered in mud? Or wear a CamelBak or Rucksack?
As for doing more than 20mph in a 20 limit I suggest he gets out of his Ivory Tower and on his bike to see just how “easy” it really is. Downhill with a tail wind I might just break 32kph (as recorded on my Garmin) but with the best will in the world I’m not going to be challenging the speed camera anytime soon.
Moron doesn’t come close
Presumably I’d have to fly my
Presumably I’d have to fly my tabard from a pole from my recumbent – not visible from behind otherwise. He’s right on one point – even with my deficient cake-fuelled motor I’m capable of 20 mph+! I would say “not a good look bashing disabled cycle users either” but since this is a pitch for a post in The Nasty Party that’s probably icing on the cake.
Presumably this will apply to
Presumably this will apply to my three year old daughter riding in our cul de sac?
the little onion wrote:
Yes and quite right too, it’s about time freeloading toddlers (has she paid anything towards that road?) faced up to their responsibilities. My granny was once nearly mowed down by an out of control toddler on a Frog bike, if she hadn’t been in a different county at the time she could have been killed.
Rendel Harris wrote:
Yes, young riders need to understand their responsibilities…
Maybe she has paid some VAT
Maybe she has paid some VAT at some point…
We’ll need receipts!!
We’ll need receipts!!
Shapps spouting more kerosine
Shapps spouting more kerosine out of his backside to fuel the culture wars. Just when you think this government can’t get any worse they always find a way.
Okay, so ignoring the fact
Okay, so ignoring the fact that cyclists have a legal right to use the public highway and this would need (presumably) significant overhaul of existing legislation to implement, and ignoring the fact that Shapps is continuing his attack on the group of road users that present 0.01% of the danger on the roads whilst ignoring the thousands of deaths (increasing year-on-year for the ~7 years before being interrupted by the pandemic) caused by cars that are getting faster, heavier, and more dangerous every year (much to the troll’s delight, I’m sure).
We are in a climate crisis. The majority of journeys in the UK are short enough to be bicycle rides, and the last thing we need are more barriers errected so that 90% of the people that might consider reaching for thier helmet instead of their car keys are discouraged by bullshit like this.
And this would also (presumably) mean a minimum age for cycling? Or is there going to be a seperate queue at the DVLA for five-year-olds to licence thier Barbie bikes (after having spent a few hours on the phone to sort out fully comp insurance)?
He’s going against research
He’s going against research from the DfT showing licencing of cyclists would be of no benefit at all. He’s playing to The Daily Mail readership, as that’s all he understands. My contempt for this idiot knows no bounds.
He must know he’s out of the
He must know he’s out of the job or just doesn’t want it. Seriously how does he go back to the DfT and explain why he contradicted his own departments research. Presumably he’s also got meetings planned with ATE, that should go well.
This man needs to engage his
This man needs to engage his brain (if he’s got one) before he opens his mouth
Before any of this actually needs looking at he needs to get a grip with the “above the law” motorists, but wait now he won’t be doing that because they pay lots in taxes on fuel, VAT, road tax and insurance tax and the poor old cyclist has now become a easy target, well you can get stuffed with your stupid ideas
Since the accident that
Since the accident that brought this matter to the forefront was a case of a cyclist with a bike without satisfactory brakes, does the moron not also realise that all bikes would also require regular MOT tests. I can’t wait to see how that would be implemented.
Plus the compulsory insurance
Plus the compulsory insurance, and the whole departments that will need to be added to the DVLA to provide the registrations, and the IT systems to support it (a rider database shared between the DVLA and the Police), plus the enforcement requirements (new divisions of police forces? a new version of ANPR?).
Implementing this will be an administrative and logistical nightmare, and as a responsible cyclist that doesn’t ride dangerously, has never run a red light, has full insurance on all my bikes, part of me wants him to try it just to see the whole thing blow up in his face.
This will cost Bns . Who is
This will cost Bns . Who is going to do all the work for the initial registration of 20M + bikes with all the admin and verification required ?
How long would it take to register the initial users and would it be by bike or by user? And where and who would do this? Will we all have to cycle to Swansea?
These people have zero idea of the complexity of implementation and the cost of it.
Let’s say 15 mins to register 20M thats 300M minutes or 5M hours. Then with a 9-5 day 625000 days and 6 days a week gives 104166 weeks. So there will have to be a lot of places or it will take an awful long time to do with only a few centres.
And since loopy liz is going to cut the civil service where are the staff and budget going to come from ?
hirsute wrote:
M’lady Harding perhaps? She who didn’t know if her database was encrypted.
BalladOfStruth wrote:
That crossed my mind re. ‘the great unburdening’ but even though brexit has been a massive failure…still it continues. Never underestimate the abiity of these self-enriching and vote-grabbing morons to double down on their stupidity and sod the rest of us.
I had wondered how, with a
I had wondered how, with a pro-cycling PM, an electoral mandate to build cycle infra, and the COVID cycling boom, we still managed to fall so far behind European countries with none of these.
Now I know it was this incompetent goon.
Car Delenda Est wrote:
To be fair, there are lots of incompetent goons in this government, some of them even less competent than him!
I presume that roller skates,
I presume that roller skates, skateboards, and scooters (where electric or not) will also require number plates, and their users insurance?
Scooters should only be the
Scooters should only be the official trial ones which have a tiny plate – good luck with getting a photo of that !
We don’t have any of those
We don’t have any of those hire scooters out here in the sticks, but I see plenty of privately owned ones out and about on public roads, often at night, with no lights. This is against current laws which don’t seem to be enforced so I have nothing to fear from the requirement to have a number plate on my bike.
You should fear cutting your
You should fear cutting your leg on the plate as you dismount !
(Where do you put a plate on a bike anyway? And to be big enough to be read how will it not present a danger to the rider or other riders and pedestrians ?)
Number plate could be 1.5m
Number plate could be 1.5m wide and extend out to the right?
So depressing. Hopefully the
So depressing. Hopefully the sheer impracticability of it all will prevent it going any further. The 20 mph speed limit stuff is just laughable. Yes, I often slightly exceed 20mph (maybe getting to 34km/h) in the 20 zone in my village. But no car ever waits behind me when I do – I am always overtaken. (I’m also often overtaken when driving at 20mph through it.)
Can we please do something
Can we please do something about the fact that cars just stream through green men nowadays? Apparently it’s legal if everyone is doing it too. It’s never safe to be near a road.
Ha ha, ? what a gem of a
Ha ha, ? what a gem of a story this is. Some much comedy material in the story, I literally dont know where to start. Speeding cyclists? Does G Shatts ever use the road? TBH, with this collective of fools, that we call a Govt, vulnerable road users have little to fear in terms of further hassles. Just imagine the multitude of hurdles and bureaucratic barriers that this so called idea has to pass through, not to mention cost. This, in combination with staggeringly incompetent ministers, could be one to watch and be entertained by. Authorities cannot even get to grips with those that have number plates and insurance at the moment!
I was just enjoying my daily
I was just enjoying my daily dose of bile with a froth of righteous indignation when I suddenly thought – does this actually mean they’re really going to start holding all road users to the same rules? So actually enforcing 20mph limits (and others) for *motorists*? And maybe holding those who kill and injure on the roads properly accountable? Could it be there will be measures to have some way of actually identifying *drivers*?
Maybe they’ll even bring in licence, MOT and tax checks in Lancashire?
Is this that comprehensive review of road law by stealth?
chrisonatrike wrote:
NO.
Discussing the same issue
Discussing the same issue with The Times this morning Shapps makes it clear that he’s not interested in the bureaucracy of number plates.
A law on speeding and light jumping could be brought in but would only lead to prosecution if directly witnessed, presumably by police.
It’s hard to see why he’s bothered about something so unimportant as cyclists speeding, but given the culture wars he will get A LOT of correspondence from voters on this. He has to respond to it somehow.
Shapes isn’t the problem, its a broader thing. Its the British.
Nikolai wrote:
Only by forcing the bike industry to make every bike a few hundred quid more expensive by fitting a GPS speedometer at the factory. You can’t do people for speeding if it’s impossible to know how fast you’re going.
BalladOfStruth wrote:
Only by forcing the bike industry to make every bike a few hundred quid more expensive by fitting a GPS speedometer at the factory…— Nikolai
I think I’m sensing support already from much of the bike industry, particularly purveyors of powered bikes and scooters… Actually having that as a requirement for *sale* – like pedal reflectors – doesn’t sound world-ending.
I don’t believe this could do anything for safety though – at least not in any foreseeable future that Shapps is a part of. Because we don’t have mass cycling and his party aren’t interested in making that happen. As I’m sure he’s sensible enough to realise that it cannot be an honest proposal, it’s political manoeuvring.
BalladOfStruth wrote:
As a cyclist I can just base my speed on the law-abiding motorists around me, then I can be confident that I’m not exceeding the limit. After all, they’re all carry number plates that make them identifiable, so they wouldn’t possible dare to break the limit.
Nikolai wrote:
Not the British – the Gammons who are a small but vocal subset. Its all about posturing for them and the Newspapers that feed their fake culture wars. This is basically the UK right wing trying to redirect the passion that barely got brexit over the line to other uses.
Problem is whilst they are wasting their energy on the fake culture wars they are ignoring all the real problems and people are starting to call that out.
I don’t think its purely The
I don’t think its purely The Gammons either.
Most of the hoons I see driving cars tend to be youngish men, and quite a lot of the outraged rantaloons can be of the female gender. Remember that funeral convoy in Nottingham – M Driver F Ranter iirc.
We need accurate stereotypes
I feel a bout of civil
I feel a bout of civil disobedience coming on.
This is just read meat sh!t
This is just read meat sh!t to gain the support of the gammony folk at the DM, and to advertise that he’s evil enough to join Truss’s new cabinet.
So, where to start? Here’s a bit of a random brainfart
Cyclists and pedestrians and equestrians all have a right to use the highway. They are not licenced to use it. Is he intending to revoke the ancient right of those groups to use the highway (what would Rees-Mogg think of that)? Is he intending to make pedestrians have to show papers to walk to the shops?
Speed limits. Bikes aren’t subject to a speed limit because they don’t have speedometers fitted. Is he intending to introduce legislation forcing people to retrofit speedometers to their bikes? Where will all these highly accurate speedometers come from?
Number plates on bicycles. OK, so if that works the same as on cars then do we just get to fail to notify who was riding at any particular time? If not, is he proposing that it’s the rider who is registered rather than the bike? Which is a great deal more draconian than motorists get.
Insurance. We all know that a large number of cyclists already have appropriate insurance either through house insurance or through membership of BC or CUK. We also know that a great many motorists are driving around without insurance.
Given the sh!tshow at the DVLA at the moment, how much extra money is he planning to throw at them to help them deal with all this extra paperwork? Will that money be more or less than the money raised by the selling of bicycle licences?
Why is a Govt which is so very keen to remove the nanny state and reduce taxes (on major businesses, in particular: ref. freeports) so willing to increase the legislative and financial burden on a large sector of the population by such an unprecedented method? Is it just that cyclists are deemed not to contribute enough to the economy so he wants to get revenge (hmm – a war on the cyclists, anyone)?
(yes, I know this all a bit of a strawman, but he started it).
If it wasn’t for the
If it wasn’t for the practical issue of speedometers, I wouldn’t have a problem with speed limits applying to cyclists. However, I do have a problem with a Minister saying this whilst being silent on motorists speeding in 20mph zone when his own Department’s statistics show that more than 80% of drivers do so (and yet only 5% of drivers have points on their licenses – so enforcement is clearly pretty much close to zero).
“But I see no reason why
“But I see no reason why cyclists should break the road laws, why they should speed, why they should bust red lights and be able to get away with it and I think we do have to not turn a blind eye to that and I’m proposing setting up a review to do exactly that,” he added.”
Would that be the complete, thorough review of road laws announced by this ultra-shambles of a tory government all those years ago? Or just another cyclist-bashing one?
Meanwhile, drivers who are already subject to all these rules but ignore them routinely, kill and maim thousands every year; but they aren’t the problem, it’s the cyclists.
Setting up a review to turn a
Setting up a review to turn a blind eye to cyclists speeding and busting red lights seems like a massive waste of money anyway.
The cynical part of me
The cynical part of me suggests that this is all hot air pandering to the Tory faithful whilst the leadership election is in full swing. After which the “review” will be quietly shelved.
eburtthebike wrote:
Doesn’t he want the drivers to forgo training/licencing for driving heavier vehicles?
As mentioned by others, I
As mentioned by others, I suspect this is just dog whistling for a position in the new cabinet when the successor is chosen. After all the Government is supposed to be cutting costs and civil workforce then wants to bring in a plan that would be unenforceable.
I suspect at the end of the “consultation”, it will be decided, like it has many many times before not something suitable to bring in.
UK cyclists really do need to
UK cyclists really do need to make a push for parliament to write a UK version of the “Idaho stop,” law, which both makes riding safer and removes “running red lights” from the bingo card.
cmedred wrote:
I would agree, but I think there is zero chance that our politicians would vote for that as they seem to be just working for their own benefit, not for the public.
hawkinspeter wrote:
They’re working?
mdavidford wrote:
More like grifting
mdavidford wrote:
Yes; for their own benefit.
Just looking on Wikipedia
Just looking on Wikipedia about the “Idaho Stop” and love the fact it was a Mr Bianchi behind it!
problems that insurance for
problems that insurance for cyclists would definitely solve #1
Council responds to fears ‘child will be killed’ in Gloucester town after lad knocked off bike by car – Gloucestershire Live
Council responds to fears ‘child will be killed’ in Gloucester town after lad knocked off bike by car – Gloucestershire Live (link)
The same person that has
The same person that has suggested scrapping the need for an additional HGV license, is suggesting bikes are the main issue in road safety?
What would save more people a speed limiter on cars or number plates on bikes? How many dangerously driven cars reported to the police are dealt with even with a clearly visible licence plate.
The DfT has already rejected
The DfT has already rejected this concept on at least two occasions. It’d be costly, complex and do nothing for road safety. It’ll be rejected again. But he’ll have won some points with the Daily Hate readers.
Mostly unenforcable and
Mostly unenforcable and impractical. This is purely a bluster piece for the readership of the red tops. Trying to save his job under a new leader.
Option 1: He’s throwing rats
Option 1: He’s throwing rats to the zombies who post in the DM comments section. Civil Servants will tactfully point that it’s a bit rubbish in value for money terms, will require lots of legislation and an increase in the Civil Service headcount when they’re trying to reduce it by 91,000, also burn and replace all the EU legislation, asking is this really the best use of Departmental resources in the current situation, and it’ll quietly get shelved once Psycho Clown replaces Rubbish Clown.
Option 2: and I’m not ruling this out. He might actually be serious. Psycho Clown let’s Useless Poodle off the leash to try to attack cyclists and cycling. Next steps.
* Widespread disobedience, assuming it makes it through against rising groundswell of popular opinion, the House of Lords and if secondary legislation is used to shoehorn it through, judicial review.
* A shedload of public protest, say, at or around the venue of the the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham on 2-5 October. Involving lots of cyclists. Possibly elsewhere as well. Heck, everywhere.
* Getting politically active. Maybe not for any particular party, just to get the cold creepy hands of the Conservative Party off the levers of power. I’ve also got issues with the other parties – starting with Starmer’s hair – but the other parties aren’t coming after my bikes. Tactical voting and vote-swapping. Providing support to local political organisations and campaigning.
Argos74 wrote:
It’s clear that the Tories are in a tail-spin and are just chucking stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Every sensible-thinking person needs to vote them out of power as soon as possible before they do even more damage.
This story is just one of
This story is just one of many distraction techniques incompetent Governments use to get people talking about something other than the important issues that they seem incapable of dealing with.
It works of course, just like when they talk about blue passports, pint glasses, Peppa pig, blame the French, bridge over the Irish sea, blame the migrants, etc, etc, the list is endless of the complete and utter nonsense they have spouted over the years.
The Tories have announced plans to axe up to 91,000 civil servants over three years, so who exactly will be administering all this legislation?
Who will enforce any changes? Under the Tories, 21,000 police officers have been axed from England and wales alone.
It is all nonsense and will not happen, merley announced to distract and pander to the Daily Mail morons.
parliament is in recess, aka
parliament is in recess, aka holiday mode, so government isnt doing anything at the moment, any distraction by a minister will be so fleeting as to be barely noticeable, you cant bump double digit inflation & energy bills massively increasing as stories off the news grid by inventing new ways to annoy cyclists.
This is Shapps making up policy on the hoof, for what purpose?, to please Mail readers, why? They overwhelmingly vote Tory anyway, they arent suddenly going to start voting Tory twice, so it’s a waste of effort & those that can vote in the leadership election wont be swayed by this to vote one way or the other as it’s not something either candidate is pushing to Tory members anyway, again its policy on the hoof.
The only reason he can be doing this assuming he’s smart enough, is to be trying to put clearer distance between him and Boris’s more pro cycling policies, in an attempt to curry favour with parliamentary colleagues, after being royally embarrassed by them when hardly any supported his leadership bid.
I do suspect it’s a response
I do suspect it’s a response to his failed leadership bid.
I assume someone pointed out that you can’t be PM if nobody has ever heard of you.
well yes, but again its
well yes, but again its essentialy about his standing within the parliamentary party, his leadership bid failed before it even started, because he couldnt get 20 of his colleagues to sign a bit of paper to nominate him, it never became a question of connecting with the public at large.
and I think if you look back at how the emergency active travel fund stuff progressed, and how alot of his Tory MP colleagues reacted to those cycle lanes and LTNs appearing and were writing letters objecting to him about it, he’s very much trying to shift from being seen as staunchly Team Boris pro cyclists, to being Team whoever wins and pro not so much cyclists, as he thinks thats the best way to enhance his future career prospects with the new leadership, though I suspect most of the cabinet jobs will go to those that backed/helped the winning candidate, and the losing candidate to help unite the party
As a positive from this sorry
As a positive from this sorry story, I don’t think I have ever seen Cycling UK publicising that most home insurance policies provide 3rd Party Cover for riding bikes.
Time for an email.
The cover is actually third
The cover is actually third party liability and one advertised it as “If you poked someone in the eye with your umbrella when on holiday in moscow you’ll be covered”.
I did like the wording of one policy which covers your servants too !
That’s a fair clearification.
That’s a fair clarification. Though mine would probably exclude deliberate poking in the eye as a criminal act.
This is the wording from mine, which covers the stuff that Shapps was rabbiting on about afaics:
We will indemnify You:
(ii) As a private individual for any amounts You become legally liable to pay as damages for
• Bodily Injury
• damage to property caused by an accident happening anywhere in the world during the Period of Insurance
(with a list of exclusions, of course – professional activities, criminality, alternative cover elsewhere etc)
Incidentally, I was in touch with Cycling UK Comms and they are currently preparing a response, and I asked them to emphasise the home insurance policy point.
The umbrella one is
The umbrella one is accidental ! Many a time I have had to avoid the ends of umbrellas held by short people as the umbrella is level with my head.
hirsute wrote:
Though today in Moscow you would be arrested for being Steed.
Anyhoo, perhaps you need a longer umbrella than the other person with a football on the end !
hirsute wrote:
— hirsuteHow about if you poke them in the leg with a ricin tipped umbrella?
Definitely covered if you’re
Definitely covered if you’re a Muscovite holidaying in London.
I think Cycling UK are more
I think Cycling UK are more likely to want to publicise that Cycling UK Membership includes 3rd party liability insurance…
I’d like to see the evidence
I’d like to see the evidence that says having a number plate stops road users ignoring the law. Regardless, surely, a 20tt century solution. We’re in the 21st century. Why not just have electronic tagging for all road vehicles. Let’s be honest Google know where I am all of the time why shouldn’t the Police. Oh…. because it’s not about road safety it’s about appeasing the gammons.
IanMK wrote:
The evidence shows completely the opposite – compare rates of speeding with proportion of drivers with points on their licenses
I recall that Reg Harris was
I recall that Reg Harris was fined for exceeding a 30 MPH speed limit in the 50’s. I would be surprised if the law that made that possible has been rescinded, and feel sure it would apply also to 20 MPH limits.
Equally, I would have thought that antisocial cycling is covered by existing legislation. I don’t see any cyclist number plates in the Netherlands.
Grant Shapp’s (Michael Greene’s) proposals are OTT. What next, licences for skiing, rock climbing? Running!!!
John Be wrote:
Not sure what the law was in Reg’s day, there certainly isn’t anything about breaking the speed limit while cycling on the current statute. One could be charged with dangerous or careless cycling under the RTA 1988 (£2500 max fine for dangerous, £1000 for careless) and excessive speed for the conditions (wouldn’t have to be over the speed limit, e.g. descending at 40mph in a 60mph zone in thick fog) could form part of that charge, but cyclists certainly can’t be charged solely with excess speed.
Royal Parks Police !
Royal Parks Police !
John Be wrote:
— John BeNo cyclist has ever been fined for exceeding the speed limit. He may have been found guilty of furious driving though.
I have wondered how the
I have wondered how the generally step-forward changes to the Highway Code made it past Shapps, given that he has been MoT since 2019.
Phase 1: Blame everything on
Phase 1: Blame everything on foreigners.
Phase 2: Blame internal minorities, like cyclists.
It has been clear that this was the playbook since 2016.
Since John Major’s war on
Since John Major’s war on single mums at least.
Ah, registration plates on
Ah, registration plates on bikes – how I’ve missed this discussion (not!).
I am a road cyclist who was seriously injured last year when I was mown down by a (non-speeding) car driven by blind pensioner. I also happen to be a Police Officer so I thought I’d give my twopenneth opinion here. (If you hate the police just scroll past and save the abuse for Twitter and Facebook thank you).
In order for the government to understand the subject it’s important to look at WHO cycles:
There are leisure cyclists like me, typical mamil’s who ride for fitness and a hobby and who drive to work every day.
There are commuter cyclists, dodging the often dangerous traffic in cities.
There’s the tracksuit brigade who ride bikes two sizes too small.
Then there are children.
I could stereotype all of the above really, but I’m guessing most leisure cyclists and commuters will have some form of insurance. I do, but a lot of people won’t or can’t afford it.
from my experience the people most likely to get hit on a bike are the adults riding in cities and towns. The most likely cyclists to HIT someone else or cause an RTC are the tracksuit brigade followed by children as these people either mostly ride on the pavement or at night with dark clothing or both.
so we introduce number plates, compulsory insurance and speedometers. If you bring in a penalty for bikes speeding, it follows in law that a person must be able to know what speed they are doing in the first place.
where will the speedometer go? Who will calibrate it? How will it be seen in the dark? How will it be powered ?
take our tracksuited hooded friends – if they can’t or won’t pay for bike lights or take any form of safety precautions who is going to force them to do that and more?
The running of red lights can be any cyclist but is much more likely to be a commuter followed by a leisure cyclist. The fact they may have insurance is fairly irrelevant unless ot goes on to cause an RTC
Then we come to children. Kids love bikes. How on earth are we going to insure children, their bikes and ensure they follow the laws of the road when they by definition aren’t mature enough to commit crime until the age of 10, and can’t do most things legally until the age of 18 ?
it’s just another knee-jerk, words for votes, I’m with you too sort of moment. I just wish politicians had the guts to say it’s too difficult so we’re not doing it, and we’ll do cycling proficiency at school again like we used to in the 70’s
Northumber_lad wrote:
SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT!
YOUR TYPE REALLY MAKES ME PUKE, YOU PERVERT!
Oh! I’m sorry, but this is abuse – you want Room 12A. Next door
I feel like I know you !
I feel like I know you !
Northumber_lad wrote:
Not me, guv. I wasn’t even in the area at the time of the incident.
Northumber_lad wrote:
— Northumber_ladCycling proficiency still exists but is called Bikeability.
eburtthebike wrote:
Did they change the name just to exclude trikes?
hawkinspeter wrote:
And unicycles.
Northumber_lad wrote:
The thing is, they have said that (well, the first bit) in response to similar petitions over the years. Which makes it all the more bizarre that Shapps is now proposing it.
Reported today, an elderly
Reported today, an elderly man stabbed to death driving his mobility scooter in West London…don’t Tories have anything more serious to deal with? Has Grant Shapps ever had an IQ test?
Hicksi wrote:
— HicksiYes, but the machine only went down to zero, it didn’t do negative numbers.
Bring back hanging!
Bring back hanging!
Dnnnnnn wrote:
I’m not clear whether you’re proposing this for cyclists, Daily Mail ‘journalists’, or Transport Ministers?
mdavidford wrote:
That level of policy detail is not required at this stage and for current purposes.
How have we got to this? I
How have we got to this? I can remember back to when MPs at least had to be a step above your idiot boss (or seemed that way) in the intellect standings and used to resign from time to time. Now we have utter trash level people on all sides of government, doling out trash level proposals. This is clearly just petty personal views being attempted to be passed into legislation or something more sinister.
The last thing cycling needs is more failed government layers of control. It’s one of the few freedoms left in this soon to rationed and monitored world.
Once they’ve come for the cyclists then they’ll come for the pedestrians.
Rick_Rude wrote:
I know a few people who’ve worked/are working at a high level of government (Cabinet Office); although as civil servants their opinions are possibly not unbiased, their take is that since Brexit politicians have decided that they know what’s best and they’ll just do it without consultation (remember Gove’s famous “had enough of experts”?). Previously a minister, or even the Cabinet, would throw out an idea and the job of the Civil Service was to provide an evaluation of the idea and an assessment of its feasibility. Now they tend completely to bypass the experts and simply throw out their (often ideologically grounded) ideas and demand that they are implemented. The wisdom of this when you have a leadership group whose primary expertise was gained from a PPE degree, or in Shapps’ case an HND in business studies and a career as a photocopier salesman, is dubious. No reason they can’t be good ministers or even Prime Ministers, but if they decide they can do it all on their own without guidance you end up with, well, Nadine Dorries.
Rendel Harris wrote:
That’s the minister of The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, who clearly are not regulating the media from hate speech against people who travel by bicycle. Clearly she needs all the help she can get…
She would have to regulate
She would have to regulate herself then as she has tweeted out enough stuff to show she is anti-lgbt and slightly racist (all brown people look alike and sound alike) .
Maybe her staff are doing it for her as they all know her password and can logon as her. Against HoC rules and all common sense, but still when has that stopped ministers these days. I suppose it sets some guards up to blame someone else like her dyslexia was suddenly to blame previously.
AlsoSomniloquism wrote:
Evidence that she is not fit to serve as minister if she cannot tell who are the Protected Groups in law…
lonpfrb wrote:
Oh I think she can, I think she just doesn’t agree with it, or wants to present to her audience that minorities shouldn’t push it…
Politicians are required to
Politicians are required to reveal all sources of income and benefits to reassure us that they are not rigged. Of course they do. It’s about time that all newspapers and journalists also had to reveal their sources of income and benefits, given the influence over how the public think and vote. None of us will be surprised to learn that the motor and oil industry provide the most significant bungs to these toilet rolls but it will be useful to know just how much a particular company (say VW) fund the Mail when they purport to support green energy etc. I would choose not to buy anything from any company that’s keeping the Mail going, it’s not readership subscriptions that’s for sure.
I assume the zero tolerance
I assume the zero tolerance approach to speeding and red light jumping for cars is going to come into effect at the same time? After all, they already have registration plates so it should be easy, and if speeding is something they really want to tackle then black box technology has been available for cars for ages, it could be implemented for everyone who drives.
Let’s say this all came in
Let’s say this all came in and I racked up 12 points.
Could I
a) claim hardship
b) be disqualified
c) just take the wife’s bike
d) anyone’s bike
e) just nick another plate
f) get a cloned plate
Mindful that this release is
Mindful that this release is most likely the chap playing to the masses and putting a case forward for continuing in his current position, could this actually be a massive home goal for Shapps?
These proposals will get significant support from the masses, however the reality is that the implementation of such legislation is impractical to say the least. It realistically can’t be done without huge public spending, and digging into it, the returns would be negligable. So it won’t happen… again.
The reasons why are well publicised and Shapps even refers to some of these himself, so what is the point of putting all this back out into the public domain?
The last thing the government want is to be seen to be unable to take action on such popular legislation… will the potential egg on the face make Shapps more or less employable? I say less.
Typical distraction tactics
Typical distraction tactics by the government.
But surely if they wanted to look like they were cracking down on dangerous cyclists they could pledge to enforce all the ilegal electric bikes on the streets at the moment?
Not sure what other readers think, but better enforcement of suped up electric bikes that the riders don’t have to pedal whilst going uphill would surely appease the masses but also make things actually safer?
Geoffish wrote:
There seems to be a general decree from the oil/motor corporations to not mention e-bikes and e-scooters where possible as otherwise it detracts from their “electric cars will save us all” narrative. If people start seeing e-bikes being publicised, then they’ll start to think “that’s perfect for commuting a few miles into work; is much cheaper than a car and won’t need specialised charging infrastructure”.
Geoffish wrote:
I worry about the behaviour of some on bikes that are effectively electric mopeds, but again any action should be prioritised based on risks and outcomes. Compare the lives ruined by bad driving with those affected by illegal ebikes. It’s clear which needs parliamentary and civil service time.
If this ludicrous idea is
If this ludicrous idea is driven through (see what I did there). Then every individual who cycles or owns a bicycle should refuse to register their bikes or apply for a licence. As these are traffic offences then a day in court is required rather than a FPN because we can’t decriminalise these particular offences.
The whole justice system will then collapse under the strain of processing 20 million plus people and our esteemed Mr Shapps will be frantically back pedalling to the point of speeding (did it again) in order to bin his rush of air.
I believe that cyclist should
I believe that cyclist should have insurance, I got mine with British Cycling, it’s only £44 a year, also I think cyclist should wear a helmet and lights and should adhere to the road and it’s safety etc but license plates are a stupid idea!!!
Unfortunately your bicycle
Unfortunately your bicycle seems to lack the legally required rear and pedal reflectors.
Adehence and all that…
I don’t think you would make
I don’t think you would make much progress if you adhere to the road.
One of the tabloids today has
One of the tabloids today has another Shapps story:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/19553048/school-run-self-driving-cars/