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I suspect that Sat Nav may be, in part, to blame. They were just following instructions.

IanMK wrote:

I suspect that Sat Nav may be, in part, to blame. They were just following instructions.

Google Maps already knows the "correct" way around.

I think cars with built in Sat Nav tend not to get updated so probably won't.

Although I don't think there's any excuse for any of the drivers, I can see why the current approach may be confusing and frustrating. The road drivers wish to turn into is not one way - but the "correct" way to get into it is to keep straight, do a U-turn at the gyratory up ahead, and then turn right on the way back down.

If you're not familiar with the layout I can imagine that is entirely unclear (and given the number of layout changes in recent months as tram works progress I wouldn't be suprised if many people are unfamiliar with the current layout), and if you are familiar with the layout then you'll know that going to the gyratory, around, and back is going to add on a chunk of time (lots of traffic and several sets of traffic lights to get through), which I can imagine is frustrating when the road you want to go down is "just there".

It's also the only junction I can think of where the "no left turn" exists purely as a result of light phasing for pedestrians. Most of the time a "no left turn" exists because the road on the left is one way/no entry, or because the road layout means it is dangerous to attempt to turn left (e.g. a very tight corner). Sometimes there is a "no right turn" for other reasons e.g. when the volume of oncoming traffic means attempting to turn right would lead to queues and obstruction.

My understanding is that the current light phasing exists because some computer modelling suggested this would minimise delays to all road users (including pedestrians). 

My (short term) solution would be to say that if drivers can't be trusted to obey the road signs (and evidently they can't) then the best alternative is to scrap the "no left turn" and change the light phasing, but still prioritising pedestrians. This will mean drivers spend more time sat at red lights and longer queues for drivers, but they only have themselves to blame. 

Handy to have a local view, although I will say there is a large no left sign where they are turning !

Yeah - there are a lot of signs so it is definitely clear that you are not allowed to turn left, and hence no excuse for doing so. It's just far less clear what you are meant to do instead!

Agree with you here - while it may be slightly to the betterment of pedestrians or even cyclists this sounds like a case of the planners blindly following the computer!  I don't think it's sensible to expect "sign it better" to triumph over humans here - particularly where you always could make a left turn, the alternative route up and round will probably take them a couple of minutes AND they can see that you could go that way.

As you say no reason why they can't just hold the cars turning left - it's not like they're blocking the trams and it's two lane here so buses can get past.

I would put allow a left, but have the traffic lights have a stop for left and a green for straight on, with a short left turn phase after pedestrians have been halted and cleared the crossing. Then anyone turning left out of phase is a red light jumper - and of course, those waiting to turn left get those drivers going straight on in the left lane pissed off with cars not pedestrians.

You're being a little too sympathetic imo.

AIUI the diversion is into a sort of straight then right then back loop, because as has been noted the left is too sharp and too dangerous whilst roadworks are proceeding. Really it's a temporary kind of slalom like that they put on the Leith Walk bike obstacle course, plus a foldback.

There are bloody great huge No Left Turn signs, and people driving their cars have been hooning through pedestrians on a Pelican Crossing in the pedestrian phase.

But a lot are getting reported, including taxi-hoons to the Licensing Office.

It's tempting to declare that Edinburghians are mostly lawless vagabonds, but I'd better not . In 1745 the lawless vagabonds came our way in Derby, and all ran away when they faced meeting *our* lawless vagabonds.

A below sightline bell bollard on the LT corner designed to bend all the sills of all the lawbreaking cars seems a good idea.

mattw wrote:

AIUI the diversion is into a sort of straight then right then back loop, because as has been noted the left is too sharp and too dangerous whilst roadworks are proceeding. Really it's a temporary kind of slalom like that they put on the Leith Walk bike obstacle course, plus a foldback.

My understanding is that the "no left turn" is intended to be permanent and not because of any ongoing roadworks but purely the result of decisions about light phasing and traffic flow. 

Agree with the rest...

hirsute wrote:

"She politely put her indicator on as she waited to drive off the pavement onto the road so she knew some of her highway code."

Sod the pedestrians on the actual pavement.

 

The Honda driver was on the wrong side of the central island at that point - in effect, going the wrong way along a dual carriageway. So they needed to take some sort of action but it wasn't the right one. Still, you can see why they need an off-road vehicle.

This area is a total nightmare at the moment though - it does seem to change very frequently and most of the signs are temporary. It's not easy imho, whether driving, cycling or walking.

essexian wrote:

I just don't understand what's wrong with a monorail...

It's more a Shelbyville idea.

IanMK wrote:

I'm sure most have seen this before but in case we need reminding why we are so ignored by the capitalist agenda

There's some broken window fallacies in there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window)

hawkinspeter wrote:

IanMK wrote:

I'm sure most have seen this before but in case we need reminding why we are so ignored by the capitalist agenda

There's some broken window fallacies in there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window)

Is that a new way of spelling bullshit?

Sounds more like Zorg from the Fifth Element!

Isn't it satirical? And the point being made is that GDP is a stupid measure and govenments (and the rest of us) shouldn't make decisions based solely on that kind of economic logic. I've seen similar about GDP and cars - if you make good cars, you only sell one to each driver and they don't need mending. Better for everyone and the planet. If, on the other hand, you make rubbish cars, people have to keep buying new ones or spend a fortune on repairs. Rubbish all round - but great for GDP . . .